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View Full Version : Pathfinder Ways to effectively control intelligent undead? [Pathfinder only]



Kraken
2014-11-11, 04:35 AM
I see that down the road, via create undead (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/create-undead), I'll be able to raise skeleton champions (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/skeletal-champion-CR-1), and as far as I can tell, the template does not remove class levels, allowing me to raise spellcasters. Pet spellcasters strike me as very useful. However, I've never played a character that made any great use of undead before, so I'm totally unversed in effectively controlling them. There's the command undead spell (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/command-undead) and feat (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/command-undead---final), but both come with all sorts of limitations. What are my other options? My character is currently a cleric1/wizard2/theurge1. Deity is Sivanah, domains are trickery and tactics (via separatist archetype), mage of the veil school specialization, standard tiefling with scaled skin (fire) and prehensile tail, and I currently have devoted no build resources whatsoever to undead. This is all sort of exploratory for me.

Mr Adventurer
2014-11-11, 04:56 AM
According to that, a Skeleton Champion Wizard 18 is CR 9?!

Abd al-Azrad
2014-11-11, 05:19 AM
Were I to recommend anything, it would be the Agent of the Grave (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/a-b/agent-of-the-grave).

At second level, it gains the Undead Manipulator (Ex) ability, which allows its "spells and spell-like abilities with mind-affecting effects treat undead creatures as their original type. Thus, an Agent of the Grave can use charm person against a humanoid zombie or confusion against a horde of skeletal champions."

Obviously you're still working against their (typically strong) Will save, which you'll pretty much always have to deal with when trying to control intelligent undead. But this will give you a wider range of options, basically opening up two entire schools of magic for this purpose.

deuxhero
2014-11-11, 07:29 AM
While it won't give you intelligent undead, the Arctic Domain will give you intelligent [cold] creatures permanently as long as they are NOT undead.

Dalebert
2014-11-11, 09:45 AM
Agent of the Grave combined with Dominate Monster seems like a good way. Generally though, having negative channeling combined with the feat is the best way I know of and it still has complications. It gives complete control for about 24 hours at which point the undead get another save. That's when it gets sketchy because the creature you controlled may suddenly attack you, and depending on exactly when that happens, it could be very awkward. You can expect to have to do quite a bit of maintenance to maintain control over intelligent minions.

Of course, Dominate Monster is a great way to have any sort of minion as long as it isn't undead or otherwise immune to mind effects.

Psyren
2014-11-11, 10:43 AM
If you don't want to PrC you can just use Threnodic Spell (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/threnodic-spell-metamagic) (or a rod of same) to dominate it instead of taking AoG levels. You can also use Thanatopic Spell (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/thanatopic-spell-metamagic) (or a rod of same, again) to weaken it first with "negative" levels.


According to that, a Skeleton Champion Wizard 18 is CR 9?!

No - for monsters, CR from class levels is always calculated separately. (The table should really say "RHD" rather than "HD," but this is clarified in the text anyway.)

skypse
2014-11-11, 11:12 AM
Necromancy school and high charisma is the best way to command undead around.