Cheaper Magic Items

[Milo v3]

In the aim of making it easier for average commoners in a setting to be able to purchase minor magic items, I was considering halving the price of magic items and WBL (aside from first and second level so they can still have the correct mundane items). Would this create any issues or could I reduce the magic items price even further?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Personally, I think it would probably be easier to simply say that the market is absolutely saturated with the handful of items you want commoners to have and simply mark them down to 1/10th their normal price. In the long run it'll be much easier and require a -lot- less tweaking.

The system on the whole intentionally ignores market forces except for a very minor tip-of-the-hat in the arms and equipment guide so reminding players that those are a thing could open up interesting plot avenues, depending on what your players find interesting of course.

[Milo v3]

Personally, I think it would probably be easier to simply say that the market is absolutely saturated with the handful of items you want commoners to have and simply mark them down to 1/10th their normal price. In the long run it'll be much easier and require a -lot- less tweaking.


Not sure that works since I don't want it to be just a handful of items.

[weckar]

Considering PCs would also want to buy other mundane goods (property, etc), wouldn't it be wiser to just double the finances of the average commoner?

[Jeff the Green]

What level do you plan on running the game at? If higher levels, reducing the price of all items with a market price below, say, 1000 GP by 90% wouldn't mess up the game too much. At lower levels, of course, 75 GP wands of level-1 spells might be a bit much, but 750 GP is pocket change for people with 60,000 GP anyway.

[Der_DWSage]

...Actually, it might be feasible to just put all magic item prices (And special materials) in silver, while keeping mundane items as they are-and similarly axing actual GP payouts by a factor of 10 as well. It gives a mildly weird disconnect when you finally manage to purchase a +1 weapon when the Masterwork portion of the equation was actually more expensive, but it should be smooth sailing from there. (Alternatively, just reduce the price of a masterwork weapon similarly.)

I'm sure there's some consequences I'm not seeing here, but at the same time, it'd be mildly refreshing to see PCs hauling home all the mundane stuff from a dungeon for once, rather than leaving it as so much trash.

[Milo v3]

Considering PCs would also want to buy other mundane goods (property, etc), wouldn't it be wiser to just double the finances of the average commoner?
So make the profession and craft skills grant gp = check result rather than half?


What level do you plan on running the game at? If higher levels, reducing the price of all items with a market price below, say, 1000 GP by 90% wouldn't mess up the game too much. At lower levels, of course, 75 GP wands of level-1 spells might be a bit much, but 750 GP is pocket change for people with 60,000 GP anyway.
It'll be low level.


...Actually, it might be feasible to just put all magic item prices (And special materials) in silver, while keeping mundane items as they are-and similarly axing actual GP payouts by a factor of 10 as well. It gives a mildly weird disconnect when you finally manage to purchase a +1 weapon when the Masterwork portion of the equation was actually more expensive, but it should be smooth sailing from there. (Alternatively, just reduce the price of a masterwork weapon similarly.)

I'm sure there's some consequences I'm not seeing here, but at the same time, it'd be mildly refreshing to see PCs hauling home all the mundane stuff from a dungeon for once, rather than leaving it as so much trash.
So basically what I was doing except 1/10 rather than 1/2?

[Kelb_Panthera]

What all were you thinking of giving your commoners?

I suppose you could just slash costs across the board but a BIG part of why people become adventurers is to get RICH.

[Milo v3]

What all were you thinking of giving your commoners?

Gloves that can create dancing lights, a cutlery set that detects poison (50 objects enchanted as one cause it's minor like ammunition), amulets of mage hand, benches that mend things you place on it, packets of junk food that make prestigitations of infinite chocolate and stuff that is tasty but cannot get you fat or give nutrition, doors that open with a word rather than a doorknob, alarm systems for homes, umbrellas that lower wind conditions with Alter Wind, summonable pet ponies, glasses that let people read any language, workstations that grant bonuses to crafting checks, rubbers that can erase multiple pages at once, fireplaces that work via summon monster II, cups that can remove hangovers or delay sleep, permanent unseen servants, make up that causes you to Actually look younger, suits that let you move through crowds with ease, locks with Arcane Lock, gloves that amplify a labourers physical strength, tattoos that amplify the owners confidence and charisma, watches that let you share memories and languages with a handshake, etc.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Umm..... wow. Yeah, some of that is definitely outside the reach of a typical commoner. Heck, some of that would be extravagant for a 7th level adventurer.

You're going to have to completely revamp your economy. No more adventuring for riches. There's just no money in it.... somehow.

[Milo v3]

Umm..... wow. Yeah, some of that is definitely outside the reach of a typical commoner. Heck, some of that would be extravagant for a 7th level adventurer.

Really??? The highest level spell used to make those is Summon Monster 2. Most use first level spells.

[Kelb_Panthera]

2nd level spell X caster level 3 X continuous activation constant of 2000gp X 4 for the rounds per level duration /4 for being a totally stationary piece of magic architecture = 12,000gp for your summoned elemental fireplace.

Not exactly cheap.

Command activated items are a bit better with a constant of 1800 and no multiplier for duration but still not cheap.

[Milo v3]

Not exactly cheap.

That is the reason for this thread, yes.

Though, command word makes this ridiculously cheaper being only 2700 gp.

[Kelb_Panthera]

The best you can do is 180 for a command activated cantrip/orison device that only activates once per day. 900 for the same, useable at will.

The only way to get cheaper is a piece of absolutely stationary magic architecture that produces an orison/cantrip effect with an hours/lvl duration once per day for 50gp. 25 if its native duration is 24 hours or longer, though I don't know of any such cantrip/orisons.


That is the reason for this thread, yes.

Though, command word makes this ridiculously cheaper being only 2700 gp.

The problem there is that you must reactivate it every round. Do you want to chant at your fireplace for as long as you want it lit?

[RenaldoS]

Just fiat that those things are cheap/commonplace. I don’t really see the benefit of crunching the numbers out unless the party wants to settle down somewhere. Or you live in a state-controlled economy and every citizen gets exactly one provision of those items and selling them is illegal.

[Milo v3]

The problem there is that you must reactivate it every round. Do you want to chant at your fireplace for as long as you want it lit?
It appears I overestimated the duration of summon monster, thinking it lasted minute/level rather than round/level.

[weckar]

I recall these things being quite similar to how magic exists in Eberron. May have a look at how they dealt with it.

[Milo v3]

I recall these things being quite similar to how magic exists in Eberron. May have a look at how they dealt with it.

As far as I can tell, they did it via fiat.

[Arael666]

Gloves that can create dancing lights, a cutlery set that detects poison (50 objects enchanted as one cause it's minor like ammunition), amulets of mage hand, benches that mend things you place on it, packets of junk food that make prestigitations of infinite chocolate and stuff that is tasty but cannot get you fat or give nutrition, doors that open with a word rather than a doorknob, alarm systems for homes, umbrellas that lower wind conditions with Alter Wind, summonable pet ponies, glasses that let people read any language, workstations that grant bonuses to crafting checks, rubbers that can erase multiple pages at once, fireplaces that work via summon monster II, cups that can remove hangovers or delay sleep, permanent unseen servants, make up that causes you to Actually look younger, suits that let you move through crowds with ease, locks with Arcane Lock, gloves that amplify a labourers physical strength, tattoos that amplify the owners confidence and charisma, watches that let you share memories and languages with a handshake, etc.

I would just say the items are cheap but can only be used in non combat situations. Another thing, just because you're using a spell as a base effect it doesn't mean the item have to produce the same effect (universal solvent uses disintegrate but can't be used to kill people :smallamused:).

Some ideas would be: The umbrela just magicaly don't let you get wet; the ponies can't be used as pack mules; the glasses can only be used in the confort of someone's own home/workplace/library; the gloves only increases stregth for labor purposes and so on.

Another thing, your whole problem is "I don't want the players to abuse these absurdly cheap items", so how about explaining to them that you want to build an "easily accessible magic for mundane purposes campaign" and it would be nice of them if they didn't act like jerks?

[weckar]

If nothing else, you can always have your in-game government issue limited coupons to the commoners. Magic items would be engraved with a seal that indicates that resale is illegal. That avoids the money issue altogether.

[Zaq]

Honestly, there should be an entire giant swathe of magic and magic items that makes everyday life better, despite not having a ton of use when killing things and taking their stuff. The rulebooks just focus on the stuff that makes adventuring easier.

To use an example I've used in the past, right now I have probably twelve different kinds of knives in my kitchen. There aren't rules in the PHB for butter knives and bread knives and steak knives and paring knives and cleavers and choppers and all that, but that doesn't mean that I expect a D&D universe (non-adventuring) chef to use the same kind of knife (or dagger) to chop vegetables that the Rogue uses to slit throats. The rules aren't about being a cooking simulator, so they don't have rules for extensive collections of kitchenware, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Similarly, there's probably way more casters who make spells for making everyday life better than casters who make spells that kill things, but since the rules are concerned with adventuring and not with day-to-day life, we only have listings for the crazy adventurer spells and not the common make-life-easier spells.

It's the same thing with magic items. Adventurers aren't primarily concerned with hyper-efficient erasers and umbrellas that reduce wind, so we don't have rules for them. That doesn't mean that they can't exist, and more importantly, there's no reason we have to assume that they use the same rules as adventurer gear. Just set them in a different category from adventurer gear and declare that they use different pricing rules. It makes sense, it doesn't directly conflict with the rules, and it means you probably won't have too many arguments.

[Telonius]

Yeah, put me down for "separate pricing system." Otherwise, you run the risk of giving the PCs a system that can make an at-will item of True Strike (or Guidance of the Avatar, or something equally horrific and low-level) for dirt cheap.

[Elkad]

Ideas.

Limit it by CL of the creator. Lots of 3rd level guys making stuff, but high level stuff is rare?

Keep the prices the same for new creations, but a glut of used stuff has made many minor items cheap? (which means new low-level items would sell for barely over the 50% cost).

Modify the magic system slightly and allow a big cost reduction for creation if the item is keyed to a location. So the magic boot polisher only works if it remains in the same house, which was set when it was created. (It taps a specific ley line or something?). For mobile stuff, maybe it's keyed to a specific soul? (and you could easily stick CL limits on this as well. This method of powering magic items is weak, so can only support items up to CL4?)

[Telok]

Recall two things. First is that the pricing guidelines are guidelines and not rules. Secondly that section explicitly tells you to compare stuff to existing items first. Last, totally noncombat stuff should have a reduction similar to the skill or class requirement price reduction.

A warm hearth can just a bunch of bricks with the warming cantrip on them all with the same command word. Can't be moved, can't cause or heal damage, and uses cantrips. It ought to be pretty cheap.

Also note that commoners will normally have a feat or two and ranks in a craft or profession skill, only the extremely incompetent or lazy actually make the one silver per day that is so often quoted. Plus if you try to use the DMG population guidelines there can be fifth level commoners in the tiniest hamlets and epic level commoners in large cities.

Loans and buying on credit have been around for more than two thousand years.