Let's... Let's Play Crusader Kings 2: So Much for the Glory of Rome [Archive]

OrcusMcP

2014-11-13, 07:24 AM

Welcome to a new Let's Play of Crusader Kings 2. What is Crusader Kings 2? The main discussion thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?311133-Crusader-Kings-2-Thread-II-Sparkly-Vampire-Invasion) should be able to answer most of your questions, but it is a game where you take control of a noble dynasty in the Middle Ages and lead them to glory or obscurity. I will be playing with all the DLC, including the recently released Charlemagne. We will be starting in 769 CE. The Way of Life, Horse Lords and Conclave DLC were also integrated upon their release.

Many different things can happen in this game, and we will be starting in a fertile but volatile and dangerous region where lots of things will happen: The Atlas Mountains of Mauretania.
http://www.lawrenceofmorocco.com/sites/lawrenceofmorocco.com/files/imagecache/gallery/_alk2052_0_0.jpg
20 years before the game starts saw the Berber Revolts throw off the yoke of the Umayyads across much of Northwest Africa. The main cause of this revolt was the Umayyad Dhimmi tax, which was a tax levied on non-Arab converts to Islam, even though it was only supposed to apply to non-Muslims. The Berbers, being early and enthusiastic converts to Islam due to its nature as religious community that transcended ethnic or tribal community, were not at all pleased by this and kicked most of the Sunni Umayyads out of Africa, to be replaced by small Berber kingdoms and tribes. These were religiously diverse, with Shia, Ibadi and Kharjite rulers all tucked into the wealthy cities and regions on the coast where much of the population was still Catholic.

We, however, are playing further inland, in the tribal mountain lands, where the Berber tribe in what would now be called Marrakesh have just elected a new Chief. The tribe, while mostly Shia adherents, have become disillusioned with the greater Islamic community of Ifrqiya and al-Andalus. They know that they inhabit some very fertile mountain valleys, and that greatness could be theirs under a leader of vision.

That leader is very unlikely, a man who, while the son of a Berber merchant's daughter, draws his name and his customs from a more civilized tradition. This man comes from a former Roman Equestrian family, and he is Catholic, being elected on the merits of his skill rather than his piety.

That man is Stadius Gigas, or Mel'eb Lelatefal al'Emelaqh, the Giant of the Playground.
http://imageshack.com/a/img661/1379/tcC19C.png
A cruel man with lustful appetites, he none-the-less is a masterful commander of men and is sympathetic to the Berber plight. Even if his cynical nature means that his Catholic faith is little more than lip service, the greater world will not sit still upon hearing that Christians are once again in power in Africa.

http://img.dev-point.com/imgcache/2014/08/679441.jpg
This LP will feature some semi-regular votes. Some will be on domestic policy, some will be on family matters, some will be on foreign policy, but you should all consider yourselves members of the circle of advisors. Dramatic harrumphing and passionate arguments will likely be more persuasive to our characters than simple voting by head, so be prepared to dust off your mud-slingers.

I will be playing the characters according to their traits, so unless the character we are playing is beastly and wacky, don't expect any major power gaming.

Table of Contents
Terra Gigantea
Chapter 1: Mountain Mists (769-779) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18404290&postcount=8)
Chapter 2: Jawbreaker (779-790) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18425877&postcount=40)
Chapter 3: Good Idea, Bad Idea (790-802) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18446671&postcount=59)
Chapter 4: Reinvigoration (802-815) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18503798&postcount=69)
Chapter 5: Conversation on Conversion (815-828) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18539606&postcount=78)
Chapter 6: These Being the Words (828-837) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18596979&postcount=99)
State of the World on the Coronation of Sempronius Gigas (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18603934&postcount=102)
Chapter 7: Setting the Table (837-848) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18675953&postcount=115)
Chapter 8: Life and Times of Licinius Gigas, Volume I (848-854) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18722425&postcount=116)
Chapter 9: Life and Times of Licinius Gigas, Volume II (854-865) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18834420&postcount=131)
Chapter 10: Life and Times of Licinius Gigas, Volume III (865-882) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18897931&postcount=139)
Chapter 11: Life and Times of Licinius Gigas, Volume IV (882-894) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18931671&postcount=155)
Italia Irredenta
Chapter 12: No more mister nice Christ (894-910) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18965842&postcount=165)
Chapter 13: Souls are at stake (910-924) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19000748&postcount=177)
State of the World 925 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19012417&postcount=191)
Chapter 14: "People should know when they're conquered." (925-933) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19086157&postcount=213)
Chapter 15: A Very Human Rampage (933-942) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19171827&postcount=224)
Chapter 16: The Justinian Papers (Volume 1) (943-953) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19214723&postcount=238)
Chapter 17: The Justinian Papers (Volume 2) (953-957) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19248185&postcount=247)
State of the World 957: Transactio Byzantium (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19286733&postcount=272)
Chapter 18: The Justinian Papers (Volume 3) (957-976) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19379709&postcount=289)
Chapter 19: The Justinian Papers (Volume 4) (977-984) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19440262&postcount=290)
Chapter 20: Words of a witch (984-995) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19497517&postcount=310)
Chapter 21: When You're Living in Italia (995-1005) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19545048&postcount=312)
Chapter 22: There's Only One Rule in Italia (1005-1014) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19626468&postcount=318)
Chapter 23: Be Like the Nature of Water (1015-1027) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19686954&postcount=321)
Chapter 24: A Taste of Things to Come (1027-1034) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19751513&postcount=326)
State of the World 1034 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19755407&postcount=330)
Chapter 25: Wining, Winning (1034-1052) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19837734&postcount=334)
Chapter 26: Italia non est Centra Mundi (1053-1066) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19882618&postcount=342)
Interlude (1066) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19913116&postcount=358)
Semper Spatium Gigantes
Chapter 27: A New Age (1066-1078) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19972572&postcount=369)
Chapter 28: Janus (1078-1084) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19994349&postcount=374)
Chapter 29: Triumph (1084-1097) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20095863&postcount=385)
Chapter 30: Hunchback of Milan (1097-1110) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20271701&postcount=391)
Chapter 31: Conquest to Conquest (1110-1121) & State of the World (1121) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20336439&postcount=393)
Chapter 32: The day may come when I ask a favour of you... (1122-1132) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20464051&postcount=402)
Chapter 33: Differences of opinion (1132-1143) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20506464&postcount=408)
Chapter 34: Space between the stars. (1143-1163) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20608121&postcount=414)
Chapter 35: What do you do with a drunken Gigas? (1163-1182) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20716129&postcount=416)
Chapter 36: The Lamberto Testament (I) (1182-1196) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20789119&postcount=422)
State of the World 1196: The Lamberto Testament (II) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20793822&postcount=425)
Chapter 37: The Lamberto Testament (III) (1197-1204) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20913240&postcount=430)
Chapter 38: A Moment of Glory (1204-1214) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21002636&postcount=433)
Chapter 39: Growing Storms (1214-1225) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21141864&postcount=438)
Chapter 40: Ne Plus Ultra? (1225-1237) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21277296&postcount=444)
State of the World 1238 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21421265&postcount=450)
Chapter 41: The Fixed Point (1238-1253) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21765185&postcount=458)

Sange

2014-11-13, 09:59 AM

It begins!
Right, now I really hope that you get the Omen event chain.

Flickerdart

2014-11-13, 10:55 AM

Mount & Blade art in a CKII LP? :smallamused:

IthilanorStPete

2014-11-13, 12:10 PM

Awesome, definitely looking forward to this! This should be a very interesting start indeed.

Hydranova

2014-11-13, 02:27 PM

Mount & Blade art in a CKII LP? :smallamused:

Someone else noticed that too! Makes me wonder if we could somehow get a companion game running, but that is neither here nor there.

As the saying goes, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." Good thing that Mauretania is still in Rome, huh?

Artanis

2014-11-13, 07:40 PM

Dramatic harrumphing
HARRUMPH! :smalltongue:

Rockphed

2014-11-13, 11:02 PM

HARRUMPH! :smalltongue:

We won't last a week with that attitude. Obviously we need to dramatically pose. *cape floats in the wind*:smallbiggrin:

OrcusMcP

2014-11-14, 01:11 PM

Chapter 1: Mountain Mists (769-779)

Little is known of the early life of Stadius Gigas, or precisely how he came to become chief of a Berber tribe. The best guesses we can make is that his mastery of the battlefield and ability to inspire his troops lead to his acclamation, as his personal character was not terribly inspiring on his own. While he would have many concubines and camp followers in his bed over the course of his life, his wife Myasa was always at his side in these early days. She reportedly was extremely gifted and was a strong supporter of Statius' ambitions.

http://imageshack.com/a/img661/1379/tcC19C.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img674/6817/F5CvbD.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img661/3382/gwsunP.png
Though himself a Catholic, Stadius was still a member of the tribe and most of the tribe were Shia. Thus, he was familiar and sympathetic with most of the Muslim practices and was tolerated by the other high ranking members of the Tribal Council. Stadius was not the only man among them with administrative and military talent, but was the only one who saw that there was glory to be had outside the tribe, that wealth and power could be theirs. Stadius rallied the council to awarding him new authorities so that he could prepare for a military campaign.

http://imageshack.com/a/img673/1691/mVQWaA.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img901/7937/vmOviR.png
As the news that the tribes were restless began to spread outwards, especially when it became known that a Christian was in power, the wider Muslim world declared that the proper Light of Islam must spread once more in a great Struggle. The Berber Revolts had shown that while conquest and consolidation were easy, piety and devotion would be necessary to maintain order, lest heretics, schismatics and infidels topple what the Ummah had built.

http://imageshack.com/a/img673/213/wE9kvu.png
Note: Did I forget that Marrakesh was a Jihad trigger? Yes. Yes I did.
The Pope also soon heard word that there were Christians gaining power in Africa, and dispatched an envoy to treat with Stadius and offer some monetary support. The envoy was shocked, however, to find that most of the tribe was still Shia and that the entire council with the exception of a Bishop was also Muslim. The offended and stuttering envoy tried to invoke Papal authority to have the Muslims from the Tribal council expelled, but The Giant of the Playground was not prepared to submit to any authority, Muslim or Catholic, and told the envoy to depart. He did relieve the envoy of all his gold first, however.

http://imageshack.com/a/img538/5972/uwGTxQ.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img537/8095/9hc23u.png
In 770, Stadius organized all the fighting men of the Tribe into a massive raid on the neighbouring Ibadi lands in Fes to the north. Little resistance could be organised in the face of such a strong assault, and no higher authority existed among the Ibadi kingdoms to come to their aid. Stadius pillaged the countryside for months, burning towns, forts and mosques, bringing all the wealth back to the tribe to start construction of proper hillforts and markets in his mountains.

http://imageshack.com/a/img746/7283/8ucuin.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img661/2144/RwugVv.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img907/4436/STBVot.png
Over the next two years, Stadius would continue to raid the Ibadi in Fes. He started to enjoy the spoils of his pillage a bit too much for some of the more conservative among the Tribe, but he still managed to have children with his wife and concubines.

http://imageshack.com/a/img913/1715/vnoJL9.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img537/5619/mY2M04.pnghttp://imageshack.com/a/img911/3184/QnwLoL.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img673/1734/CPcOXA.pnghttp://imageshack.com/a/img633/8363/4FBTvW.png
As the spoils came in from Stadius's raid, the Tribe voted to extend him even further authority, but they insisted that it was time for the tribe to expand, not just plunder. Stadius agreed, but he thought even bigger. He had ambitions to claim Lordship over all of Ifriqiya, much like how the Romans of antiquity claimed all of Italy. They rose from humble origins to be masters of all the world, and Stadius longed to write the next chapter in that history. A major campaign of conquest was called for.

http://imageshack.com/a/img540/4460/ViNMeU.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img912/6834/WAo7pp.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img661/7295/6wETt5.png
The first war began with some more Berber Shia tribes to the south. It took time get all the warriors levied and properly equipped, as this was a war of conquest, not a simple raid. Fortunately, Stadius had developed into a masterful commander of armies and when the battle was finally joined in late 774, the other tribes stood little chance against him. By mid-775, The Marrakechi were in control of the entire Atlas Mountain range south of Fes.

http://imageshack.com/a/img904/3971/EaDALG.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img743/4216/FOzHz5.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img743/7109/9misbr.png
Stadius had personal control of all the Shia Berber tribes and thus once all the dust had settled in 776 he declared that he was now High Chief. The Mountains were his and the Marrakechi were his people. Glory to all who followed, despair and ruin to all who opposed. The Council were pleased, but nervous. Stadius was obviously great and had done much for the prestige and prosperity of the tribe, but he still clung to the old notion of Rome and was using Christian religious justification to conquer Muslims.

http://imageshack.com/a/img910/2666/rNDRsM.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img673/2230/Z9z1VG.png
Thus, in 777, when Stadius declared another conquest, this time of an Ibadi tribe on the western coast, the council insisted it be a simple affair. "The mountains are to be ours and we should seek glory, yes, but we includes fellow Muslims. We cannot support any more wars with such blatant Christian excuses and excess."

http://imageshack.com/a/img746/4483/Lw0kHF.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img538/1103/3zdTli.png
Life was quiet in Marrakech after this war. Stadius fumed at the restraint of the council, but he understood their reasons. Perhaps he had been overly ambitious and overly zealous. Thus, as his 10th year as chief came to a close in 779, he took stock of where his tribe was in the world. The Marrakechi controlled extensive and valuable lands in the mountains, but the Northern Coasts had far more robust institutions. Bringing them to heel would be a difficult task. Plus, conquering his way to the Mediterranean might draw the ire of the Umayyads, who were trying to retake some of their former vassals in Alger.

http://imageshack.com/a/img674/5599/jDNJy0.png
The council, meanwhile, had a meeting of their own. Marrakechi, all, they were still a diverse bunch, with Berber, Roman, Shia and Catholic members. They knew that if given the chance, Stadius would rather burn bright and fast than grow to be a true power. They needed to either reign him in or point him in a better direction.

Some advocated that Stadius was at his best when he was Plundering. If the coasts are too dangerous to take, then let us continue to just loot them and grow the tribe slowly until it will be in a position to actually administrate beyond the mountains.

The older and more conservative councilmen saw no reason not to let Stadius extend himself, but that he would need to Delegate if he wanted their support. Let other council members rule parts of the Tribal land, so that it would not all be in the hands of one unpredictable man.

Myasa, Stadius's wife, had invited herself to the meeting in secret and had a bold plan of her own. Dismissing the council's ideas, she too had vision and dreamt of a mighty Kingdom where she might be Queen. Salt traders often came up from the South, past the desert, and perhaps there the Marrakechi might find wealthy lands to rule without risking danger from the wider world.

What ended up convincing Stadius?

Flickerdart

2014-11-14, 02:17 PM

Every step east brings our soldiers closer to Umayyad swords, and this quarrel between brothers of the faith is sure to paint Stadius in the worst possible light. And yet, grow we must! Raiding is no sustainable way to sustain our people. There is no choice but to march South and show to our neighbours that Stadius does not seek quarrel, but also has much greatness still in him. Once we bring the Mande pagans to heel, we will earn both the respect of the Umayyads and the lands we need for true stable and sustainable growth.

ObadiahtheSlim

2014-11-14, 02:24 PM

A shame you didn't start before the latest beta patch. Jihad/Crusade can no longer trigger before 900AD.

Cristo Meyers

2014-11-14, 02:32 PM

OrcusMcP

2014-11-14, 02:35 PM

A shame you didn't start before the latest beta patch. Jihad/Crusade can no longer trigger before 900AD.

Meh, too late now, we'll just have to run with it. Considering that this is still the time of big Umayyad and Abbasid empires and is not long after the initial spread of Islam, it's not too out of left field to have Jihads now. Plus, this should make the rest of the world more chaotic, which is always awesome.

Hydranova

2014-11-14, 02:46 PM

Yes, yes, let's attack the pagans down South! They have money! And land! And...people with money and land!

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll

2014-11-14, 03:59 PM

Flickerdart

2014-11-14, 04:02 PM

Hardly! We need to placate our Muslim tribesmen! We must delegate power to our various loyal lieutenants, to secure their loyalty. Tribal patronage has a long and glorious history, and is the path to a rich and prosperous tribe!
While there is wisdom in what you say, there is no rush to delegate. Autonomous vassals will grow unruly in times of peace, but if placed in charge of recently conquered lands, they will have their hands full and their minds far from any thoughts of insurrection.

ObadiahtheSlim

2014-11-14, 04:17 PM

Conquer pagan lands to the south, but beware of their defensive attrition. We need more land for good faithful christian to balance the power of the muslims.

Flickerdart

2014-11-14, 04:30 PM

Conquer pagan lands to the south, but beware of their defensive attrition. We need more land for good faithful christian to balance the power of the muslims.
Did they add that in? From what I remember, West African Pagans didn't actually have defensive attrition to start with.

mythmonster2

2014-11-14, 05:05 PM

Did they add that in? From what I remember, West African Pagans didn't actually have defensive attrition to start with.

They added that in with the patch that came with Charlemange, IIRC. Nevertheless, Rome was able to conquer harsher lands. Let us subjugate the south! Delegation will not be necessary, but raiding may still be done to fill our coffers with foreign gold.

Rockphed

2014-11-14, 08:22 PM

The South is rich. Conquering it will allow us to both subjugate heathens and to fill our coffers.

Artanis

2014-11-14, 08:39 PM

We must grow. Especially with the Caliphate already turning its eye towards us, we need wealth and power to a level that mere pillaging cannot attain if we are to survive. Going south into the gold-filled lands beyond the desert will increase our power to the point where Jihadis will be smashed against the Atlas the same way that Darius's men fell trying to force the pass at Marathon.

But.

Weapons and horses cost money. Men are reluctant to follow foreign infidels, which literally all but two other males on this entire continent consider us. To achieve the conquests that will insure long-term survival - and from there, Gloria Romae Novae - requires money and respect that can be Plundered from our most immediate threats.

Sange

2014-11-15, 03:12 AM

We must march south and bring these pagans the glory of Rome!

OrcusMcP

2014-11-16, 12:00 PM

The council has spoken! Stadius shall be sent South on a mission of conquest!

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll

2014-11-16, 09:05 PM

Mark my words, at the first great uprising, I'll be waiting, whispering "I told you so" as I run off naked into the night.

Artanis

2014-11-17, 04:08 AM

Mark my words, at the first great uprising, I'll be waiting, whispering "I told you so" as I run off naked into the night.
Pfft, it wouldn't be Rome without an uprising every couple years.

OrcusMcP

2014-11-17, 06:49 AM

Wow. That defensive attrition is..........wow.

Artanis

2014-11-17, 07:24 AM

West Africans get that now?

Sange

2014-11-17, 01:29 PM

Yeah, it's horrible. The worst is defensive pagans, who gain +80% damage while fighting in their homeland.

mythmonster2

2014-11-17, 05:33 PM

However, it has been drastically nerfed: you only need one level of Military Organization tech to completely ignore the homeland attrition bonus that Defensive Pagans get.

OrcusMcP

2014-11-17, 07:33 PM

However, it has been drastically nerfed: you only need one level of Military Organization tech to completely ignore the homeland attrition bonus that Defensive Pagans get.

No, you need 2. Believe me.

Artanis

2014-11-17, 08:15 PM

It's still a pretty heavy nerf :smallfrown:

ObadiahtheSlim

2014-11-17, 08:38 PM

No, you need 2. Believe me.

It's back to 4 in the latest beta patch.

OrcusMcP

2014-11-17, 10:25 PM

It's still a pretty heavy nerf :smallfrown:

It is, but the cost of every tech level has doubled.

ObadiahtheSlim

2014-11-18, 08:01 AM

It is, but the cost of every tech level has doubled.

Sure the ahead of time penalty is pretty brutal in the Charley start. However MO2 was so easy to reach in the Old Gods start. Any king could have it easily within 50 years. It made playing defensive pagans pretty much unplayable.

OrcusMcP

2014-11-18, 09:11 AM

I want to make sure the new patch didn't break anything too severely, but update should come either tonight or tomorrow.

Artanis

2014-11-18, 09:52 AM

Honestly, I think they need to rework the tech system. Not an overhaul or anything, just like adding more levels and spreading stuff out more. It was already pushing it with TOG, and Charlemagne may have pushed things a little too far.

At any rate, it'll be fun to see what happens in the next chapter of the story :smallbiggrin:

OrcusMcP

2014-11-18, 11:43 AM

At any rate, it'll be fun to see what happens in the next chapter of the story :smallbiggrin:

Going south may not have been the best idea. :smallwink:

Cristo Meyers

2014-11-18, 11:47 AM

Going south may not have been the best idea. :smallwink:

HARRUMPH!

It matters not! Rome always prevails

Artanis

2014-11-18, 12:03 PM

Going south may not have been the best idea. :smallwink:

I seem to recall voting for plundering :smallwink:

HARRUMPH!

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll

2014-11-18, 04:29 PM

"told you so" *runs off naked into the night*

OrcusMcP

2014-11-19, 01:10 PM

Chapter 2: Jawbreaker (779-790)

Raucous debate around the council fire eventually settled on Myasa's proposal of feeding Stadius's appetites by pointing him towards a different meal: The pagans past the southern desert. Many councilors warned that no one had yet conquered them for a reason, but Stadius was a man of singular talent, and bringing the wealth and people of deeper Africa into the greater fold of the world would be very prestigious and rewarding indeed.

So, many of the fervent Roman councilors then scoured the mountains to drum up support for the campaign, and by early 780 several hundred extra volunteers and glory-seekers had been recruited.

http://imageshack.com/a/img538/3884/I4dKP1.pnghttp://imageshack.com/a/img661/4093/NjMRMA.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img674/9025/hwFlMr.png
Almost three thousand warriors in total were raised in total, and Stadius had them whipped into a frenzy for the invasion of the pagan lands known as Ghana from what the traders would say. Stadius expected that he would be king from the Atlas Mountains to Timbuktu before his son came of age, since the stories told of Chief Farbas Seydou did not paint him in a glorious light.

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So, the Marrakechi marched off to war in February of 780 and saw early success in the conquest of a small tribal area in the middle of the Sahara. However, it soon became clear that Stadius was completely unprepared for the harshness of the desert, more used to the temperate climates of the mountains. By September, only a third of the initial army still survived, and were caught by a much larger Ghanaian force.

Though a valiant effort was made by the Marrakechi, Stadius himself was taken captive by Farbas Seydou and the rest of the army disintegrated in the desert heat. Chief Farbas was gracious in victory, however, requesting only a small ransom concession and a cease in hostilities.

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Back in Marrakech, Stadius licked his wounds but was not completely discouraged. His first son, also named Stadius, was growing to be much like his father, a proud brave warrior. A child of a former concubine, Myasa was not particularly fond of the boy and would rather that Stadius focus on raising the son they had together, a younger boy named Severus. Though most of the histories of this time have been transcribed form more oral traditions, there is a consistent rumour regarding Myasa trying to have the younger Stadius killed. This must be taken with a grain of salt, as the Wicked Stepmother trope is common throughout most of Roman historiography.

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In late 782, another group of warriors had been raised, this time under the auspices of the Court Chaplain, Maximus. These Catholic Zealots were not interested in the council's wishes that the fellow Abrahamics be spared, that advice had seen thousands of their fellow tribesman dead in the sands of the Sahara. Thus, a different target would have to be found, and fortunately, one was at hand that still pleased everybody.

Sijilmasa, a small fort on the eastern side of the mountains, had recently fallen to Kharijite heretics, and even the Shia councilors were willing to allow the conquest of such upstarts.

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Fortunately, the Kharijites were only on the other side of the mountain and were small in number, so the conquest was a very straightforward affair, and by September of 783 it was part of the Marrakechi realm. Control of the fort was given to Stadius' steward and friend Fabianus.

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After the last two wars, the council determined that it was time for peace. Stadius's many children required raising, farms required tilling and the lands required administering. And this council was was, because while Marrakech slowly but surely grew ever prosperous, clouds of smoke and doom were arising to the north.

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Tragedy struck the Gigas family in 786, when at age 12, the younger Stadius was found dead at the foot of a cliff, seeming to have fallen. The elder Stadius was griefstricken, but to all it seemed like a sad accident. The continued rumours surrounding Myasa and her possible part in the boys death are hard to take seriously considering the aforementioned Wicked Stepmother trope. I, for one, think that Livia did it.

This left Stadius, at 45, with 7 remaining children, but only one living son, Severus. Still in the prime of his life and easily the best military commander in the region, he still had much further to go if he wanted to achieve glory and fame. His wife Myasa certainly would not let him settle for anything.

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By May of 790, the tribe was as powerful and prosperous as it had ever been, but Marrakech was not the only power in the region. Farbas Seydou had taken the prestige gained by his defeat of Stadius Gigas and used it to rally many of the other West African tribes to name himself Mansa of Mali. Meanwhile, to the North, the Umayyads had almost completed their re-conquest of the coast and now bordered the tribe. Stadius held more authority than ever, but Marrakesh was not yet wealthy enough to take advantage of this forward thinking.

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Things were unclear about what the future of the tribe would hold. Would submission to the authority of one of these powers be necessary to ensure survival? Desperate invasions and plunder? And what of Stadius's many daughters? Could they be used to broker marriage alliances with more far flung powers? Or would some bold new idea come to the fore?

What indeed?

OOC: Thanks to everyone for getting into things so far. Is there anything people want to see more/less of in the screenshots/narrative?

Flickerdart

2014-11-19, 01:16 PM

OrcusMcP

2014-11-19, 01:20 PM

Submission is unacceptable. Did the glorious Caesar submit? No! The Umayyads must be placated, this is true - can an alliance be forged with them using Stadius' many daughters, or do the followers of Allah not accept righteous Christian wives?

Diplomatic placating has been ongoing since their reconquest began, but the current Sultan is a zealous man. He and Stadius hold each other in tense but mutual respect, but the Sultain would never accept the hand of a Catholic in marriage. If she were Muslim, though...

Cristo Meyers

2014-11-19, 02:14 PM

Rome does not submit! This is the land of Africanus, Marius, and Caesar, it will always prevail! We will forge alliances, raise new armies eager for plunder and glory, and come back stronger than ever!

...furthermore, I believe Carthage should be destroyed!

--

I was going to say maybe we should try the time-honored tradition of marrying a Karling, but then I remembered we're in Charlemange's time. We need someone that's both close-by and powerful enough to give the Umayadds pause.

Heh, maybe we should marry into the Byzantine royal family.

Flickerdart

2014-11-19, 02:37 PM

Diplomatic placating has been ongoing since their reconquest began, but the current Sultan is a zealous man. He and Stadius hold each other in tense but mutual respect, but the Sultain would never accept the hand of a Catholic in marriage. If she were Muslim, though...
Does Stadius have any spare young daughters to place into the care of a Muslim subject?

...furthermore, I believe Carthage should be destroyed!
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Hydranova

2014-11-19, 02:38 PM

I concur with my elegant statesman (On the conquer bit, not Carthage. That summer home I built there has to pay off eventually.). Those Greeks might just be the last other "Romans" in Europe. Clearly we should establish communications with them.

----

That reminds me, I really hope they introduce some sort of Great Schism event in CK2. It could be like the Sunni/Shi'a split, only instead of Sunni->Sunni/Shi'a it could be (Insert name here)->Catholic/Orthodox.

Flickerdart

2014-11-19, 02:41 PM

That reminds me, I really hope they introduce some sort of Great Schism event in CK2. It could be like the Sunni/Shi'a split, only instead of Sunni->Sunni/Shi'a it could be (Insert name here)->Catholic/Orthodox.
Relations between the churches in the East and West were strained long before the "official" schism gave separate names to an already observed phenomenon.

OrcusMcP

2014-11-19, 02:53 PM

Good arguments all, keep them up. I will remind everyone, though, that there are Berber Muslims on the council as well, you are welcome to give voice to them. :smallwink:

RE: Catholic/Orthodox split, Flickerdart hit the nail on the head. Plus, with the whole Iconoclasm business at the start of the Charlemagne bookmark, that's not going to go over well with the Pope.

Artanis

2014-11-19, 03:01 PM

Do not forget that Rome suffered for many generations under the Etruscans. That submission to a foreign power did not break Rome, but made it stronger. Would the Rome of old have become so strong, so mighty, without the harsh lessons learned at the hands of the Etruscans? I say it would not! The revolts against the Etruscans led directly to the Republic, under which fought the great early heroes like Cincinnatus, Horatius, and Scipio Africanus, whose victories formed the foundations upon which Gaius Iulius Caesar brought Rome to glory!

I say that, while Rome is destined for glory, we must - for now - Submit to the Umayyids. Foreign oppression was the fire in which Rome's might was once forged, but Rome cannot be reborn if its would-be heirs have all been put to the sword by zealot hordes swarming from the north. Suffering this temporary indignity will be a shame for now, but in doing so, we will follow the path of the first Rome: we will submit to our northern neighbors, we will learn from them, and when decadence and overextension have taken their toll, we will overthrow and conquer them.

The night is darkest before the dawn, and the pitch-black eve of submission will lead to a dawn that shines with the blinding glory of Rome reborn.

Also:

I, for one, think that Livia did it.
Hehehehehehehehehehehe

Edit: addendum

Ceterum autem censeo Carthaginem esse delendam!

Hydranova

2014-11-19, 05:30 PM

Artanis

2014-11-19, 06:15 PM

Us? Good God-Fearing Romans, submit to the Caliphate? I say good sir, has the heat of the desert gotten into your head? They'd bleed our coffers dr- er, seize our lands from us, no doubt! Besides, we're the last (genuine) remnants of our glorious Empire! Why should we, who come from people that once brought peace to the Mediterranean, bow our heads to any other?
Do not forget that the original Rome did not start in glory, but came from the most humble beginnings. A boy abandoned to the wolves grew up and built a city on some hills in an unwanted backwater along the Tiber. It was from there that the Legions marched to create the Pax Romana.

And God-Fearing? The Legions of the Republic did not fight in the name of God. They marched from the Fields of Mars and through the Gates of Janus, boarded ships protected by sacrifices to Neptune, and brought back loot that would go to the glorification of Jupiter. Our faith has little to do with the glory of Rome.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll

2014-11-19, 07:41 PM

Realistically, we are a small tribe between great empires, two of the richest lands in the world. We could not defeat the southerners even before they united under their great Mansa.
We must set one against the other. Our Shi'a vassals will never accept the rule of a pagan polytheist, at the very least we are ahl al-Kitab, a people of the book, so we get at least a little respect. No, we must join with the Umayyads, and take the opportunity to raid the rich southern lands, perhaps join the Umayyad conquests of Africa to gain more land there.
If we must dissimulate from our faith to do so, so be it. Rather live a ruling secret christian than die a penniless martyr, not for our sake, but for our family!

Sange

2014-11-20, 12:06 PM

Submission? What blasphemy! As you cite men like Cincinnatus, did he, or Marcus Scaevola, or Horatius Cocleus, ever submit? I don't think so!
Clearly we must marry for alliances, which will keep us safe. We will not reform the Empire by submitting!
And, as others have said, Carthago delenda est!

OrcusMcP

2014-11-20, 12:28 PM

The will of the council is clear! While there are many among you who issue calls for plunder, alliances and glory in independence, the deep passion and calls to the historical legacy of Rome has convinced Stadius that Submission to the Umayyads is necessary pragmatism. My God have mercy on our souls, and may He keep the Sultan far away from us.

OOC: FYI, raiding tribal land is beyond useless. There is no available wealth to gain, sacking a tribal holding gives miniscule plunder, and in our case, we'd be losing money and troops through pagan attrition.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll

2014-11-20, 03:10 PM

I guess it is a bit early historically for Mali to be as ridiculously powerful as it got.

OrcusMcP

2014-11-20, 03:27 PM

I guess it is a bit early historically for Mali to be as ridiculously powerful as it got.

This is a pretty good overview (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvnU0v6hcUo&index=16&list=PLBDA2E52FB1EF80C9) of the history of places in Africa like Mali and Zimbabwe that became super wealthy off of trade with the wider Muslim/Asian world. The point John Green makes about Africa traditionally exporting raw material and importing finished goods is a particularly interesting point.

The fate of Mali in our TL is likely to be tied to our fate. Right now we can't conquer them, and they can't conquer us. They are in a good position to consolidate power along the [censored the name? I guess...] river and keep that consolidation together. Wealth is a different story, though, and will likely be dependent on their religion.
If they stay pagan then we will likely conquer them eventually once we stop dying of pagan attrition, since they won't be able to adopt feudalism without reforming, which will require going through us.

mythmonster2

2014-11-20, 03:58 PM

I hope we have not made a crucial error. If the Sultan is able to consolidate his power enough, it is possible that he may take away all we have worked for by right of us being infidels in his eye. It will be of the utmost importance to stay on his good side.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll

2014-11-20, 04:35 PM

Oh I know the history of Mali, and the region's links to the Mediterranean go back before Islam as well, but they didn't reach their height until the famous and only-African-king-most-people-know-of Mansa Musa.

Rockphed

2014-11-21, 11:35 PM

Independence, alliances, and try to convert Mansa to be our ally. Having a catholic to our south will be helpful in the long run...

OrcusMcP

2014-11-24, 12:53 PM

Chapter 3: Good Idea, Bad Idea (790-802)

Glory and blood gave way to pragmatism and survival after the council meeting: The new Sultan Hashim of the Umayyads would be offered fealty in exchange for protection. Stadius raged at this decision and many of the zealous Roman councilors warned of dire consequences, but the Umayyads were stable, powerful and likely to gain control over Marrakech through force of arms eventually. At least now, life in the tribe could go on without a looming shadow on the horizon.

Sultan Hisham accepted the terms graciously, and the Marrakechi were welcomed into the greater community of the Andalusian realm. Administration experts and diplomatic caravans were set up to help the tribe adapt to the new feudal realities and the help bring them in line with the rest of the Sultanate. Having near total control of the Atlas Mountain region, the Sultan proclaimed that not only was he the lawful Sultan of al-Andalus, but also of the whole of North-West Ifriqiya. He would go on to extend his African influence to the east through several wars.

Stadius, meanwhile, took this new connection to the larger community to start planning and plotting.

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Not long after, Stadius was blessed with the birth of his second son, Gallienus. The fate of this boy will be discussed later, but it is important to note that he never knew a time when Marrakech was independent of the Umayyads.

Over the next few years, thanks to the additional diplomatic access he got through the Sultan, Stadius would arrange his daughters to marry into many powerful families in the wider Mediterranean world, and by the end of 792 CE he had nominal alliances with the King of Lombardy and the Emperor of Byzantium. Meanwhile, the Sultan was continuing to consolidate his hold on Africa and Iberia.

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Starting in early 793, however, events in the Sultanate started coming to a head. Stadius first son and heir Severus had come of age, and while he was reasonably talented and trained in Martial traditions, his character was that of someone more at home as an administrator and diplomat.

After Sultan Hisham had drunk himself to an early death, his son Abdul-Aziz came to power. While still young, he had a very reserved personality and was devoted more to his philosophical and theological education than to administration or warfare. He still had the support of his Emir uncles, and the Umayyad state was powerful, few expected the rapid expansion under Abdul-Aziz that was seen under his father.

Stadius had also secured, through back channels, bribes and illicit deals, documentation detailing that the Lord of Marrakech should be the rightful ruler of Mauretania, with some fraudulent seals and signatures making the documentation seem older and going back to old Roman times.

This was also a time of internal turmoil in the Tribe, as the religious unity started to shatter. The lay Shia tribesmen had spent enough time with the Catholic elite that heresies of both started to appear among prominent thinkers. This unfortunately started to attract the attention of the official Imam of the Sultan who started an extended diplomatic mission to the Tribe.

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As Stadius was dealing with this internal problems, in early 795 he received an envoy from the realm of the Franks. Now that the Muslims were in control of the entire Iberian peninsula, the rest of Christendom was concerned about their own fates, and the Franks were looking to re-conquer some of the Basque lands as a foothold. Since Stadius was a Catholic himself, and word of his claim to Mauretania had spread, a proposal was put forth that Stadius would press his claim by force while the Franks invaded from the North. Abdul-Aziz's regime, the envoy stated, would collapse in the face of such an onslaught.

The envoy had Stadius's curiosity when he arrived, but now he had Stadius's attention.

The war began in October of 795, and Stadius had his forces in place to declare his own war in early 796

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Stadius had nearly five thousand warriors raised to lay siege to Fes, and had called upon his allies in Lombardy and the Byzantine empire to assist. However, none answered, whether the messages were intercepted or the rulers of the realm had little care for the fate of some backwater province in Africa was unknown.

He did end up receiving some help in the form of Papal Inquistitors who offered help in returning the various heretics and heathens of the tribe back to the Catholic fold. Stadius hoped this would help keep the Tribe safe and secure during the war.

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By early 797, Stadius had taken control of much of the land of Fes, but word of a large Umayyad force bearing down on them caused much alarm. The expected collapse of the Umayyad regime did not come to pass, and if anything Abdul-Aziz's resolve was hardened. As Navarra was newly incorporated into the realm anyway, the Sultan determined that it was of little value to send brave Muslim soldiers to die for it. Thus, he could bring his might to bear upon the upstart ingrates of Marrakech.

Though the leadership of the Marrakechi were far superior warriors and tacticians, the weaponry and numbers of the Sultan's forces were too much to overcome, and the Tribe was soundly defeated in several encounters in the Atlas Mountains until Stadius had to surrender in June.

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Abdul-Aziz was as merciful as the law allowed, and though he had every right to strip Stadius of his lands and title he did no such thing. He determined that Stadius alone was responsible for the war, and that the rest of his family and tribe need not pay for a single man's crime. Stadius would spend the rest of his life in a Qurtubah prison while Myasa, Severus and the tribal council would administrate his lands in his absence.

The Umayyad Imam continued his work among the tribe and the papal inquisitors were asked politely to leave. Over the next years much of the theological confusion of the past decade gave way to the tribe embracing the Sunni orthodoxy of the Sultan. Even Stadius's younger son Gallienus became part of the Ummah.

The tribal council continued to develop the mountain lands as best they could, and even the most zealous of the Roman councilors could see the advantages of integration as time went on. Soon a proper castle might be built to honour the glorious Marrakechi.

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This would not be a castle that Stadius would ever see, however, as he died an ignoble death in the Sultan's dungeons in 802 at age 60. The tribal council proudly declared that Severus Gigas would continue his father's work as Chief, but some of the newly converted members of the council insisted that his younger Sunni brother Gallienus be given land in the southern regions of the tribe.

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Severus took his new duties seriously, and immediately called a meeting of the inner council to discuss the plans for the future.

While Sultan Abdul-Aziz was merciful, he would not give the Gigas family a second reprieve should they defy him again. Severus still held claim to Mauretania through the work of his father, but Stadius's efforts at gaining allies to assist him ultimately failed and cost him his freedom. Severus was still a Roman Catholic, but he seemed more and more out of place as the Chief of a Sunni tribe. Clearly the Umayyads had learned their lesson after the first Berber revolt. And since they were still only a tribe, they lacked the sophisticated weaponry and administrative capabilities that the rest of the Andalusians could bring to bear in a conflict.

What was to be done? Chief Severus sought the input of the council to help guide him through this difficult time.

Artanis

2014-11-24, 01:42 PM

We had a chance to take back Iberia from the Muslims. We had a chance to liberate the peninsula's followers of the Cross from their heathen conquerors. But neither blood nor faith could convince our supposed "allies" to take up arms and destroy one of the greatest threats that Christendom now faces. Instead, those who bow down to the man who sits on the throne in Rome drove a dagger into our backs just as Brutus did to Caesar. Even the Pope's missionaries abandoned us to our fate!

Our path is clear.

Rome is rightfully ours, but is held by a usurper who must eventually be driven from his throne if the Empire is to be restored. To take what is rightfully ours, I believe that we must follow the path of Constantine, who took up the faith of his people and, in so doing, drove Maxentius from his throne and brought new vitality to a declining Empire. So I propose that, like Constantinus Augustus, we take up the faith of our people, and thus gain the support of those whose lands we rule. From there, we can only grow stronger until, one day, we will be able to march on Rome, destroy those who were too weak and cowardly to face the Crescent, and seize the throne from the hopped-up priest who falsely claims it as his own.

Ceterum autem censeo Carthaginem esse delendam!

Cristo Meyers

2014-11-24, 02:30 PM

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll

2014-11-24, 07:11 PM

Indeed. Clearly the Pope and their Frankish lapdogs follow false Gods, to so abandon us in our time of need. God alone can save us, so it is to God alone to whom we must turn, not Jesus son of Maria, who our people call "Isa ibn Maryam". If His Viceroy has already shown us, to him at best a misguided follower of the Book, at worst a polytheist, the mercy of God, if we were also of the Faith, he would love us as a brother! With the power of the House of Umayya behind us, how could we lose?

(random side-note, the crescent as a symbol of Islam only emerged in the past century, before then it was mostly a symbol of the Turks, hence it's use on the flags of Turkish rulers such as the Mamluks and Ottomans, and then appropriated by ex-Ottoman lands, before becoming a symbol of Islam).

mythmonster2

2014-11-24, 07:39 PM

What sort of blasphemy is this, that you cowards would renounce your faith in Jesus at the first sign of trouble? That our so-called allies would betray us is a sign of their weakness, not God's. We must stand strong in our faith, or else we can hardly call ourselves Romans. Unfortunately, it seems that I will be in the minority in staying true to our traditions.

(Sure, converting to Islam is probably the better option in the long run, but someone's gotta say no :smalltongue:)

OrcusMcP

2014-11-24, 08:47 PM

(Sure, converting to Islam is probably the better option in the long run, but someone's gotta say no :smalltongue:)

Don't worry about going against the majority opinion/sound policy. Severus is generous and sociable, but his timidity makes him a much more reserved pliable man compared to his father and could be swayed by a strong minority argument.

Malimar

2014-11-24, 08:53 PM

Harrumph, I say, a harrumph upon this business with the usurper in Rome. His time will come, as will the rest of the usurpers in Byzantium, Lombardy, and all the extent of the glorious Roman Empire. But I say it is not upon us this day to bring judgement upon any of these usurpers -- such would just split our realm and make us a fat, juicy target for their knives!

Nor ought we abandon our lord and savior for the false prophet Mohammad -- that just takes us ever further from the glorious religion of Rome's heyday, the glorious Hellenic gods followed by such greats as Augustus and Marcus Aurelius! I stand firmly with the illustrious Mythmonster on this point!

No, I say we should play the good vassal for now -- emphasis on "play". We should ply our liege of Umayyad with gifts and flattery to keep him tame, while engaging in a little more, shall we say, creative bookkeeping? Our skilled chancellors served your noble father well in the matter of digging up that claim on Marrakech -- his only fault was aiming too high, too soon. I say we continue with great Stadius's strategy, but aim not at our liege, but at our fellow vassals.

I say, crown laws permitting, we gradually build up our power by fabricating and pressing claims on our fellow vassals in Marrakech. And if crown laws don't permit, I say we factionalize to reduce the Crown Authority until they do.

Cristo Meyers

2014-11-24, 10:03 PM

Harrumph! Convert now, repent later I say! :smalltongue:

Alex Knight

2014-11-24, 10:11 PM

Are we Peter, to deny Our Lord to His enemies? Nay, resist such blandishments, and the infidels will fall upon themselves in time. We should instead renew our own faith and convince our subjects of the rightness of our views!

OrcusMcP

2014-11-26, 09:04 AM

In the hearth both the fire and the council's arguments raged on into the night, with the zeal of both converts and old priests boiling over into harsh words. No unity could be found in Marrakech, and Severus could not make a decision about either his or his tribe's mortal soul with so much acid being thrown in God's name. He saw his doubt much like Christ's at Gethsemane. "If it were possible, let this cup pass from me," thought he.

Only a single councilor drew away from the religious war at the fire to offer any other advice, and Severus took Malimar's council of playing the good vassal. Let the question of our souls be answered another time.

(Quick FYI, some major (good) home-front stuff going on this week, so the next update may not come until next week)

OrcusMcP

2014-12-08, 01:51 PM

Chapter 4: Reinvigoration (802-815)

Some translated excerpts from the Sidi-Rahal monastery records, earliest recovered writings of the Gigas family. It is not entirely clear how much is Severus's journal records or correspondence, but the fact that they are in a Latin we can easily understand gives us unique insight into the North African region of this period.

"In many ways I was thankful for my father's incarceration, if only because it meant that I could be at peace at home. Though I learned strategy at his feet, I felt little of the thrill of combat he and my fellows talked of. Too many of my friends perished in the failed rebellion. Too many."

"I had left that first council meeting shaken to my core. How they can claim authority over so many souls is saddening when sympathy and diversity has been the law of the land since the time of my father. Perhaps they were always this zealous and only fear had kept their opinions to themselves. Only one councilor followed me, offering actual counsel rather than a sermon. He spoke with force and drive, and we developed a plan for the coming years. We succeeded, but the landscape changed."

"My father never truly understood the advantages the tribe earned by joining with the Umayyads. But I did. With each passing month we became more sophisticated, more wealthy and more powerful. It was through their diplomatic reach and trade contact that I met my wife Radogund and was able to make an official pilgrimage to Rome."

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"I am sorry it has come to this, Brother, but you cannot live with Imam anymore."

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"I can only look back on those years and marvel at how much has changed. Hispania may never again know Christian authority while the Franks crumble in their attempts to centralize their power. Marrakech grows ever larger and more prosperous, and I even heard many of the tribesmen speaking Latin instead of Berber. However, I don't know if my children will ever know a day when we are masters of our own fate."

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"Gallienus, I am proud that you are taking to your duties so well. As we discussed, your fortunes will grow as the Tribe's does. Keep me informed of any progress and I will soon advise you of any suitable wives. As-Salaam-Alaikum."

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"Many felt that Abdul-Aziz would be satisfied on solidifying his control of Hispania and Mauretania as Bhadshah. Few expected his dramatic attempts to push deeper into Christian lands. Fortunately, they were excellent distractions from our attempts to extend our own influence and power within his realm....

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...We had the numbers to crush and control the Fezzian lands, but the Emir had many friends. We feared that they would gather and rout us, but we could not know then that they feared our control of the mountains, that we had armies waiting in ambush in the mountain passes. That we made great acclaim of a gift of gold from the Holy See certainly grew our renown...

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...Eventually the Emir offered us terms of surrender, and both Fez and Figuig were under our control. Gallienus was left in charge of pacifying the new lands, as his Sunni faith would help sooth the fears of the locals."

"As we come to the end of the summer in the Year of Our Lord 815, Marrakech grows strong under the Umayyads, though how much longer either of us will tolerate each other is hard to say. I have the utmost faith that Our Lord Christ will steer us ever towards glory and salvation, but I still find endless inspiration in the traditional greeting used in the markets and courts of the Empire. Though many of the tribe speak Latin, they still use the Arabic form as it speaks to the greater community we are a part of, Christian, Moor and Berber alike. How much longer until our contradictions tear us apart?

Pax super nos omnia."

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(OOC: Apologies for the delayed update, both my wife and I are in the middle of planning/executing major work changes for the new year and that took up a lot of time this week. The next updates should be much more timely)

IthilanorStPete

2014-12-08, 02:11 PM

The growth of Umayyad power gives us an opportunity to claim the dignity of Kings in Mauretania! Ever towards glory, I say!

mythmonster2

2014-12-08, 05:08 PM

Hm... It seems as if swearing allegiance has indeed turned to our favor. Well, so long as we have an overlord, forever on to glory!

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll

2014-12-09, 11:51 AM

Agreed! While the Umayyads shield us, we prosper! To glory!

Sange

2014-12-09, 12:36 PM

The growth of Umayyad power gives us an opportunity to claim the dignity of Kings in Mauretania! Ever towards glory, I say!
I agree. (Also, I thought Badshah was Persian culture?)

OrcusMcP

2014-12-09, 12:48 PM

I agree. (Also, I thought Badshah was Persian culture?)

*shrug*

According to the wiki, the Iranian culture group uses Shahanshah(king of kings), Arabic culture group uses Bhadshah(though apparently this is more of a Mughal term and is a translation of Shahanshah anyway) and Turkish uses Padishah(ditto, though used more by the Ottomans).

I think this seems weird because we're used to seeing the emperor level Muslims in CK2 titled as "Caliph" since that's what the Abbasids are, and the Umayyads can't usurp the caliphate by fiat.

IthilanorStPete

2014-12-09, 01:19 PM

*shrug*

According to the wiki, the Iranian culture group uses Shahanshah(king of kings), Arabic culture group uses Bhadshah(though apparently this is more of a Mughal term and is a translation of Shahanshah anyway) and Turkish uses Padishah(ditto, though used more by the Ottomans).

I think this seems weird because we're used to seeing the emperor level Muslims in CK2 titled as "Caliph" since that's what the Abbasids are, and the Umayyads can't usurp the caliphate by fiat.

From the little research I've done: there also doesn't seem to be much historical precedent to go on; the only real Arabic empires were the Caliphates. The Umayyads of al-Andalus generally went by "Emir" or "Sultan" before proclaiming the Caliphate of Cordoba. (Take this all with a grain of salt, I'm not exactly an expert in the field)

Artanis

2014-12-09, 07:28 PM

I...uh...can I vote for all three options?

I mean, Christians are "People of the Book", after all, so while Sunni overlords might prefer having Sunnis crush Pagans/Shia/Ibadis, Christians doing so would be better than nothing, right? Especially if we do so as accepted - even beloved - members of the cultural community who are also "totally" "loyal" and "completely" "trustworthy" vassals "in every way".

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll

2014-12-09, 11:50 PM

Regarding titles, just gonna throw out there that there never was a "Sultan" until oh the very end of the 11th century iirc, when the Ghorids or Ghaznavids or whoever they were invented the title. You were a Caliph if you claimed to rule all Muslims (the Spanish Umayyads claimed this title, because they reached new heights, because they were threatened by the Fatimid Caliphate, and the Abbasid Caliphate, despite what the game would have you think, was set to collapse entirely in the late 9th century), or else you were an Amir, or Prince/Commander. Maybe if you were feeling weeiiird you could be a Malik, but that term was used for pre-Islamic and non-Islamic rulers, so it had... Connotations. Nowadays most monarchies are Maliks because colonialism.

OrcusMcP

2014-12-16, 12:51 PM

Chapter 5: Conversation on Conversion (815-828)

More excerpts from the Sidi Rahal monastery records, a collection of correspondence between Severus Gigas and his wife Radogund. The Umayyad records for this period indicate that Severus had been placed in charge of the African detachment of the Badshah's armies.

"While your concern for the realm is admirable, wife, the tribe have chosen Gallienus to be the successor chief and that is final. Yes, he is Muslim, and no, I will do nothing about it. Life is not so simple in the Atlas as it apparently is in Genoa. If you are truly concerned for the soul of the tribe then find something productive to do. I still do not know what makes the Mallorcas such a prize, but the Badshah insists the campaign continue."

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"My husband, I am concerned because piety affects us all, but your advice is sound. I will indeed be taking more direct measures to ensure the health of our souls. I am sure that some reports have already made their way to you, but you cannot believe the slanderous lies of the Moors who will take any opportunity to impugn the honour of a good Christian woman. I hope you are teaching our Son well and that he is learning his Bible properly."

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"This is intolerable. The Campaign is wrapping up and I will have business at the Horn but we will have harsh words when I return. Gallienus was my brother and you have had him gutted like a dog. Be glad I do not have you thrown in a pit for your crimes."

"My husband, you and I both know that a coward like you can only be brave when behind armies. I have nothing to fear from you, I fear only having to answer to the Lord. Your sympathy for the Muslims will be your doom. May the Lord lead you ever to glory."

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"I am returning to Marrakesh. Victory was elusive. I tire of facing coalitions while my hard-won alliances are not even worth the paper they are printed on. Your father promised alliance as your dowry. Perhaps I should send you back. You clearly desire to leave."

"My apologies, husband, that my father is weak. I do not wish to leave your side, as I know we are doing the Lord's work here. We may not always agree on methods but you must see that it is all for the greater glory of Christ? More and more of the tribe speak Latin, more merchants and professionals are settling, and while Islam has taken root in the mountains, it need not always be so.

There will be much to settle when you return, husband, your daughter Sylvia requires a husband, and I have received word from Qurtubah that your mother Myasa has passed. With your permission, I can arrange a proper funeral and fulfill her diplomatic duties in her stead."

"It seems I am destined never to return home, for the Badshah once again finds himself at war with the Franks. They seek to retake Navarra. I am to immediately march to the mountains. Thank you for arranging the funeral."

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"The Badshah must think himself invincible. He achieves victory after victory, but only after using the Marrakechi as fodder to soften the blow of the Frankish horse. I grow tired of ordering my men to their deaths. My heart grows harder as I become better. I fear I will one day be stone."

"Keep heart, husband. This is only the natural feeling when the righteous put their trust in the infidel. We must return to our faith. Let us spend time in Sidi Rahal when you are next home."

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"I have arranged a marriage between Stadius and a young Burgundian princess, please help her acclimate to the Atlas, I have dispatched what little treasure I have scrounged from the campaign to help pay for the wedding."

"Thank you husband, and you have chosen wisely. Liutgarde is an extremely shrewd woman, not unlike your mother, Myasa. She will make an excellent wife for our son. For his part, Stadius has become a most admirable young man. As much as I have had cause to be angry with you and you with me, if we are judged according to all our deeds then Stadius will be who saves us from the hellfire. I no longer fear for the soul of the tribe."

"Stadius, my son, you are to take all available tribal forces and seize El Rif. This is your final lesson and test. Succeed by the time I am back from the Frankish war and I will name you heir and you will be the true inheritor of the Gigas legacy."

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This marks the end of the correspondence in the records. It was around this time that we know the Frankish invasion of Iberia was completely turned back, so Severus likely went home. Stadius did indeed conquer El Rif by the time his father returned to the mountains, and Severus was greeted by two grandchildren as well.

This was around 828 CE and major upheaval was about to be underway, both in Marrakesh and the wider Umayyad realm. The Frankish King Adam died not long after the end of the invasion, and thus so did the peace treaty between Badshah Abdul-Aziz and the Franks.

A full on invasion of the Aquitane region was announced.

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The tribe meanwhile, had internal questions. The prosperity since the time of the first Stadius Gigas had allowed the tribe to become powerful, but it was nearing the limits of how much power it could accumulate. Talks circled the fires in the mountain about whether it was time to adopt feudalism. It would take time to build a proper castle and develop the realm to be stratified the same as the rest of the realm, but many felt that Marrakech could be a new Rome in time. However, if war came, the manpower that was used to build could not be out fighting.

There was also talk of what to do about the invasion. Gone were the sympathies the Gigas clan had for their Muslim brethren, and perhaps it was time to cast off the yoke of the Umayyads and forge a more pious, Christian destiny, but many sought to use the Umayyad framework to first consolidate more of the coast, the better to secure the borders.

If only we had records of what was spoken around those fires....

IthilanorStPete

2014-12-16, 01:21 PM

I'm in favor of embracing feudalism and consolidating coastal power. Let us develop a proper realm before challenging the Umayyads.

I'm surprised the Karling haven't consolidated power and formed the HRE or Francia, judging by the titles Adam had.

Loved the epistolary style of this update!

Flickerdart

2014-12-16, 02:08 PM

The Franks may be in disarray, but their kingdoms are still mighty (though how mighty we cannot know without the maps and ledgers of wiser men to aid us). The Badshah's soldiers will never be as occupied and as they are now - waiting until the conquest of Aquitaine is complete will send gold to that tyrant's coffers and peasants to his levies.

Are there sympathizers to our cause, vassals who also choke under the yoke of oppression? It will be easier to expand if we can remove others from the Badshah's protection, but for now we must cast off the yoke ourselves.

OrcusMcP

2014-12-16, 02:13 PM

The Franks may be in disarray, but their kingdoms are still mighty (though how mighty we cannot know without the maps and ledgers of wiser men to aid us). The Badshah's soldiers will never be as occupied and as they are now - waiting until the conquest of Aquitaine is complete will send gold to that tyrant's coffers and peasants to his levies.

I'm intentionally leaving the options vague and the realities uncertain in order to get everyone to think beyond the numbers and to think more about character. There's no wrong answer to any of these questions.

OrcusMcP

2014-12-16, 02:23 PM

Also to note: I've not forgotten that people want to see Carthage burn, but we can't do that. Yet. *dun dun dun!* :smallwink:

Cristo Meyers

2014-12-16, 02:24 PM

There's no wrong answer to any of these questions.

Well, the answer that gets us all drawn and quartered as traitors probably wouldn't be considered the right one...:smalltongue:

Also to note: I've not forgotten that people want to see Carthage burn, but we can't do that. Yet. *dun dun dun!* :smallwink:

Ah well, recent events have taken a lot of the 'bombastic' out of my Bombastic Roman Senator. :smalltongue:

--

The years have been kind to us: prosperity has returned and we have the opportunity to turn Marrakesh into a jewel on the sea. Let us elevate our tribe and embrace feudalism while consolidating our hold on the coast.

Woot Spitum

2014-12-16, 02:53 PM

I believe we should consolidate our holdings and adopt feudalism, casting off the yoke of our overlords can wait until they show signs of internal strife or find themselves on the losing end of a war with a major power.

mythmonster2

2014-12-16, 03:54 PM

Let us adopt feudalism, so that we may better consolidate our hold on the coasts. We may as well take advantage of our position while we can, since rebellion will be very difficult.

ObadiahtheSlim

2014-12-16, 04:23 PM

Consolidate power first. Get more feudal holdings in our realm before reforming into feudalism. You need those feudal holdings to make the transition less painful.

Rockphed

2014-12-16, 05:54 PM

Let us deprive the badshah of some of his armies and his greatest general at the same time. We must Cast off the Yoke!

Artanis

2014-12-16, 07:33 PM

Because I have nothing better to do at the moment, an OOC note (that everybody is free to ignore) before I begin my Harruphing:

1) I keep mentioning old Romans because the original Romans were ridiculously conservative (note the LOWER-CASE 'c'). As a Classics professor of mine once said, "our morals are generally based on 'thou shalt not'...if something successfully gets through all ten 'thou shalt not'-s, then it can't be that bad. The Romans, on the other hand, asked one question: 'did the ancestors have it?' If so, then it couldn't be that bad."

2)Romans had a concept called Beneficium, where the wealthy were morally obligated to help the poor. So, to fulfill this obligation, they would do things like go out to the poor areas and pass out the equivalent of X-mas turkeys to everybody who couldn't afford one for themselves. Likewise, the Romans also had a concept called Officium, where if you accepted a favor from somebody, you were morally obligated to repay them in kind. However, the poor only had one thing they could use to repay a free Saturnalia Dormouse: their vote. The upshot being that the rich were morally obligated to buy votes. Thus in CKII, becoming a Merchant Republic would be the closest to the system of the pre-Triumvirate Republic.

The ingame mechanics of Post-Triumvirate Rome would probably be closest to Feudal with at least High CA and plenty of vassals with the Ambitious trait :smalltongue:

...yeah, I'm bored right now :smalltongue:
Moving right along...

I believe that we should Adopt Feudalism. There was much glory under the Republic, yes. Many of the great heroes of the past fought under the banner of the Consuls: the Etruscans, Magna Graecia, even Hannibal could not withstand the Republic. But who was it that conquered Gaul? Gaius Iulius Caesar. Who was it that created the Pax Romana? His heir, Caesar Augustus. Rome grew mighty under the Republic, but Rome grew legendary under one ruler to whom absolute loyalty was given, whether willingly or at the point of a Gladius.

OrcusMcP

2014-12-17, 09:45 AM

So, a little OOC bookkeeping:

Looks like Feudalism is a clear preference, and that will be good news for those of you who like maps. :smallwink:

I'm going to be stupidly busy for the next week, and I want to make sure that the save works well with the patch and with Way of Life. I hope to have an update up before Christmas, but no promises.

Also, are there any other historical/storytelling styles you want to read? Any particular historian voices/theories you find entertaining that I could ape? The letters were a fun stretch for me, and I have a couple other ideas, but I also want to collect some recommendations.

/OOC

Severus and Radogund knew that it was time for Marrakech to leave its Tribal roots and step into the modern realities of the wider Mediterranean world. If a Feudal contract was going to be drawn up and the Roman Gigas family were to be the heads of the Marrakechi from this point on, then it would be time to determine some formal law as well. The old Tribal Council would have to be disbanded, and a new Royal Senate would replace it. But who would be on this senate? There were three major proposals before Severus:

-Let the Royal Senate be led by the Royal Family. Only members of the Gigas Family could be allowed to sit in the Senate, with a small exception for spouses and parents.
-The Senate, like the Roman one of old, should be made of the Best Men. Only the most talented courtiers in Marrakech could be allowed on the senate.
-Finally, the Senate must be composed of the Landholders. Only those counts, dukes and burghers who held land outside of the Gigas family could have a say on the senate.

What would be the law?

Sange

2014-12-17, 11:44 AM

The Senate shoud be led by the landholders- those who have more power can be appeased by influence.

I also think we should form Mauretania before throwing off the yoke- we must have a strong powerbase to resist their revenge.

ObadiahtheSlim

2014-12-17, 02:26 PM

The senate should be Landholders. Elective succession is best succession.

mythmonster2

2014-12-17, 03:28 PM

Land alone does not prove a man's worth, nor does the fortune of being born into the royal family. Only quality will allow us to have the best men on the Senate, without falling to corruption.

Squark

2014-12-17, 04:38 PM

*Overwhelmed by all this talk, a young lord with little experience tries to look unassuming in the hopes of going unnoticed*

OOC: Just posting to say I've enjoyed reading your LP, and it's inspired me to pick up the game. Well, assuming the demo doesn't crash and burn horribly on my dinosaur of a computer, anyway. As someone who is still installing the demo, though, I'm ill-suited to provide direction at the moment.

OrcusMcP

2014-12-17, 04:43 PM

*Overwhelmed by all this talk, a young lord with little experience tries to look unassuming in the hopes of going unnoticed*

OOC: Just posting to say I've enjoyed reading your LP, and it's inspired me to pick up the game.

Glad to hear it. :smallredface:

Good timing, too, last I saw there was a massive flash sale for CK2 on Steam. I'd highly recommend also getting the Sons of Abraham expansion as well. Save the other ones for when you're more used to the game.

EDIT: Also, don't worry about whether your advice is good or not. If you offer a hilariously bad idea, but present it with enough conviction I may make a judgment call that you managed to convince our character du jour, damn the majority. I'll take a good story over good strategy for the LP any day.

Cristo Meyers

2014-12-17, 06:57 PM

Let those that are learned, those that have been bloodied, those that have earned their place: the best of us lead this realm.

*Overwhelmed by all this talk, a young lord with little experience tries to look unassuming in the hopes of going unnoticed*

OOC: Just posting to say I've enjoyed reading your LP, and it's inspired me to pick up the game. Well, assuming the demo doesn't crash and burn horribly on my dinosaur of a computer, anyway. As someone who is still installing the demo, though, I'm ill-suited to provide direction at the moment.

Best time to look into it: like Orcus said, the game's on 75% sale right now along with all the DLC except the most recent.

Give the demo a little slack, though, I don't think they ever ironed out all the bugs and many of them aren't in the game proper.

Hydranova

2014-12-17, 07:46 PM

Ahem.

Friends, Romans, Marrakechians, lend me your (interest-free) ears! Now, I may not be the product of men and women of renown and pedigree, nor can I truthfully claim that I can slay an elephant with naught but a one-wheeled chariot and rusty sword. But what I can claim, is good business sense! And what good business sense is always accompanied by, is pro....sperity. Yes. Prosperity for us, and our countrymen! Now, what good business sense tells me is that we ought to hire competent people. Oh sure, your counts and dukes may own the land. But that don't necessarily mean they can tell a plowshare from a sword, now does it? I mean, I heard one of our Baron's brothers got mauled cause he thought a lion was their housecat! Do we want those incompetents running our duchy, the last true beacon of Roman society amidst these barren sands? Or do we want men of cunning, of insight, and wisdom to lead our people into the bright future of a restored Roman Republic?

Squark

2014-12-17, 07:52 PM

Let those that are learned, those that have been bloodied, those that have earned their place: the best of us lead this realm.

Best time to look into it: like Orcus said, the game's on 75% sale right now along with all the DLC except the most recent.

Give the demo a little slack, though, I don't think they ever ironed out all the bugs and many of them aren't in the game proper.

Yup, why I started looking at the thread, actually.

And yeah, the demo is rather frustrating- I'm having to go through online video tutorials because the tutorial in the demo is broken.

OrcusMcP

2014-12-29, 11:48 AM

I have not forgotten you all, but the holidays were more packed than I initially expected. The update has been played, though, and should go up before the 1st. Then, there will be a State of the World.

OrcusMcP

2014-12-31, 12:52 PM

Chapter 6: These Being The Words (828-837)

These being the words of Stadius Gigas the Younger.

Dear Brother, I am sure this comes as a shock, but I must explain. I must do what I feel is right for both my family and our family.

Our Father had become a much harder man throughout the endless conflicts against the Franks. A more devout man, to be sure, but hard. He was one of the greatest generals the Umayyads had known, but he grew further and further away from Badshah Abdul-Aziz. Whether the Badshah knew or cared of Father's opinion of him, it mattered not. The troops needed leading and the wars needed winning. I was placed in charge of the home conflicts as well as directing the building efforts of Marrakech along with Mother.

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The war for Tangiers progressed easily. I was a seasoned warrior, the heir of the Tribe, and the tribe had not yet completed the Feudal Contract you know so well. Your other brother Severus and your cousin Licinius were coming into their own power. I had no jealousy towards them or their lands, for I had been chosen to lead them all.

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Much happened in the year following, as I'm sure you remember. The numerous letters from Father detailing the progress of the invasion, the reports of Norse raiders on the Iberian shores, the conversion of Marrakesh back to its Catholic roots and the war for Cebta. Once again I took up the cause of expanding the Tribe's lands and calling together the warriors. I was heir and it was expected of me.

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Enough money had been saved and borrowed that additional mercenaries could be called against the Emir of Sevilla, and our victory gave enough renown to convince the Marrakechi to finish Father's castle. You will recall that our victory arrived at the same time as Father, bearing news that the Badshah was victorious, with the region of Aquitaine now part of the Empire.

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Mother and I had planned an elaborate ceremony. You, Brother, had come of age and were deserving of recognition, new titles had been created, and the castle was finally completed. All seemed well as our Father, Severus Gigas, became the first Roman to be named as a King in over a Millennia. You, Severus the Younger and I were now Princes. It was a Christmas to remember.

I still have warm feelings of those days. I remember mother weeping at the news that Licinius had accepted Our Lord Christ as his Saviour when he was offered the Duchy of Fes. I remember how proud our brother Severus was of the progress and development he was making in Tangiers and his dreams of what else he might do now that he was the Duke.

I remember Father, and the relief in his eyes as he placed the simple crown upon his head. Perhaps he felt he could finally lay down his sword and permanently pass the martial torch to me.

I remember the buzzing of activity as the new Senate began to convene and argue, even among the drunken revelry.

I remember my own feelings, that I would be king myself one day. I remember looking into the faces of my wife and children and seeing their soul swell with pride at how far the family had come.

I mostly remember how you smiled, Brother Sempronius. I know now how hollow that smile was, little did I know then.

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Do you remember what I dealt with in the new year? Do you remember what Father dealt with? Or were you too busy with your own ambitions?

Do you remember the word of splits in the Muslim ranks to the East? Do you remember that Christ was gaining more and more ground in the new Kingdom?

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Ah, but you must remember how Father's hands trembled when he received the letter from the Badshah.

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Father knew the decision had to be made, but he knew too well the fearsome nature of the Umayyad armies for he had led them personally. The war was left in my hands. I was out leading men to fight and die to defend their homes while you were playing politics among the Senate and the Dukes and Counts.

It was because of ME that the Badshah was too afraid to venture into our mountains. It was because of ME that the Holy Father offered chests of gold to keep our warriors paid and fed. It was I who created the mystique of the mighty mountain warrior that kept the Andalusians at bay. As the years of the campaign continued, the Andalusians kept chasing ghosts, never deigning to stay put long enough for a tide of Marrakechis to pour out of the mountains. Victory was in our grasp.

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But then I received the letter that the Senate, in their "Infinite Wisdom" had passed over Father's wishes and disinherited my claim to the throne in favour of you!

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I was ready to march the armies back to Marrakech to protest when today I received the next letter that Father had passed. The war was over. I was to swear fealty to the new King Sempronius. These being my words, I say to you, Brother, no. I will not swear fealty. You stole my crown from me by pen and so I will take what is rightfully mine by force.

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Goodbye, Brother.

OOC: State of the World will come in the New Year. I was actually disappointed when Severus died, as the Umayyads for some weird reason REFUSED to engage my armies in the mountains despite massively outnumbering and out-earning me. My warscore was skyrocketing because they weren't occupying anything either. Oh well.

mythmonster2

2014-12-31, 01:15 PM

Is Stadius actually trying to make his claim on the kingdom, or was that just part of the excellent writing?

OrcusMcP

2014-12-31, 01:27 PM

Is Stadius actually trying to make his claim on the kingdom, or was that just part of the excellent writing?

I'm mostly being dramatic. We're still in Elective Gavelkind, which means that any kids who don't inherit the big title have an option to become independent when they inherit a more minor title, and Stadius did so. He does still have a claim to the Kingdom, but he only has control of a small tribe.

Don't forget, we're playing as Sempronius now.

OrcusMcP

2015-01-02, 11:12 AM

State of the World on the Coronation of Sempronius Gigas

Many of the maps the Gigas family had been working with were from as far back as the time of Hadrian, and the new ones imported through the Umayyads were hard to maintain in a tribal setting. But, with the new Castle being completed, Sempronius has set aside a dedicated map room adjoining the main Senate chambers. Many of his diplomatic contacts and spies had returned to fill in any political details of the wider world as well.

The Umayyad Empire

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Abdul-Aziz is growing old, and though his empire is vast, his coffers deep, and his exploits many the family itself is weakening. Few of the younger Umayyads have land of their own, and there are many whispers of the excesses seen in the Qurtubah court. Only time will tell if the family can reform itself or if it will collapse under its own weight.
The Abbasid Caliphate

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Stretching from North Africa to the Afghans, from the tip of Arabia to the Caucasus, the Caliphate is the greatest power of the age. Though the Caliph Ali is still a boy, he is driven and powerful. The world will likely tremble at his coming, but the breakaway of Syria in a massive Shia uprising has dented the mystique.
Syria

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The Shia Caliph is young, but having over twelve thousand men under your command in some of the most wealthy land in the Levant means he will likely achieve much greatness before long.
Europe

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Europe is shattering. Where there was once unity under a single king there is now only war and splintering. Karloman the Mad controls his realm by a thread, two sets of Lords are already in revolt and the King himself is nowhere to be found. King Markward of Middle Francia is a hobbled old man who rules a strip of land in the middle of the chaos. King Emelrich of Burgundy is a well respected ruler in his own lands, but with Aquitaine under Umayyad control, his lands are in serious danger. Only Lutbert of Bavaria is a power of note, but his gaze is turned to the north-east toward the pagans of Saxony, Bohemia and Poland.
Lombardy

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Queen Begga the Great rules a vast, powerful kingdom. She rules with kindness, justice and a diplomatic touch. The only problem is that the heir to the kingdom is Karloman the Mad.
The Byzantine Empire

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The Byzantine Empire soldiers on much as it has since Islam first appeared on its borders, but finds itself surrounded by enemies. The Abbasid and Umayyad empires are taking bites out of their Mediterranean outposts, the Tengri of the Steppes prevent the Empire from recovering much more north of the Danube, the Slavs of Croatia and Serbia dominate the Adriatic coast, and the Lombards may press further into Sicily.
Brittania

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Brittania is a land on the edge. The Vikings have been raiding and devastating the coasts, but strong realms are growing in Pictland, Northumbria and Mercia. The Gigas family has had extensive trading and marriage contracts with the Welsh Kings, and they may become powerful allies eventually.
Viking Lands

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The Viking Age has begun, and the two powers of Svidjod and Danmark compete to see who can line their throne rooms with the most Christian treasure. Some raiders have even come as far as the Mediterranean.
Pagan Lands

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Though Marrakech has moved past its Tribal ways, the Pagan lands of Eastern Europe have not. Saxony, with its adherence to the old Germanic ways, have been in conflict with both the Christians to their west and the Slavs to the east for centuries. Poland and Bohemia grow powerful, but both lay claim to the lands of Silesia between them. Deadly war is likely to erupt soon.
Rus

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The lands of the Rus are also a land of religious and tribal conflict, as the Slavs of the wealthy south in Ruthenia conflict with the Suomensko in the north. As the Finns become more pressured by the Vikings, they may migrate into Rus and become a power in their own right.
And now it is time to properly take stock of Mauretania and Marrakech itself.

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The Lands. Aside from the breakaway of Stadius Gigas and a small set of islands, the entirety of Marrakech is under our control. Having the crown to all of Mauretania gives us the authority to start pushing to the west as well.
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Our Laws. The legalities that allowed Stadius to breakaway are a holdover of the Tribe and should be done away with at the earliest opportunity. Sempronius' older brother Severus, the Duke of Tangier is the current heir.
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The Senate. As requested, these were chosen from the Best Men of the court.
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Our advancement. We continue at pace and are becoming more and more sophisticated.
It is worth taking a moment to discuss King Sempronius himself.

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A natural and gifted diplomat, it is said among the more Roman members of the Senate that his oratory rivals that of Cicero, and this is only in a man of 21 years. His friends describe him as kind, but the soldiers are not as impressed. He has a remarkable capacity for justice and fair dealings but also a ferocious temper. One gets the sense that the king will give you exactly what you deserve. And of course, as his quick rise to power suggests, he is possessed of deep ambition. This is a man who will stop at nothing to achieve his goals. The Gigas family may have found its first truly Great Man.

And now, the King has called together a special convening of the Senate. Many issues are on the table, and Sempronius seeks guidance. Remember, Sempronius is not a simple soldier like his father or grandfather, he is a crafty statesman with high ambitions. Only the most daring, bold and glorious suggestions will be given any weight. Timidity will be ignored.

Issue 1: Our manpower and gold reserves are completely depleted. The building of the new castle and the asymmetry of the revolt has left Mauretania in no position to wage great war. How do we solve this problem?
Issue 2: Allies. We have none. None that matter. Any allies that had been previously cultivated all abandoned us in our time of need. What is to be done?
Issue 3: Our glorious Badshah. He is old, but powerful. We may yet find ourselves receiving the order to surrender our hard won titles. How are we to survive the Umayyads?
And finally, Issue 4: Where should Sempronius himself Focus his efforts?

Flickerdart

2015-01-02, 11:24 AM

A Finnish Rus? That's an amusing thought. Equally amusing is how united the Russian principalities are compared to what we know from the Primary Chronicle - that the lands of the Slavs were fragmented and weak, paying tribute to various other tribes.

Sange

2015-01-02, 11:34 AM

Wow, that Bavaria.
We should try breaking away from the Ummayad infidels, and for that, Sempronius must focus on Business, to have vast reserves of gold for mercenaries.

Rockphed

2015-01-02, 05:08 PM

I don't suppose we can entice our brother to rejoin our court. His 26 martial was impressive, and would solve many, many of our problems. Also, if he is our vassal, rather than the Badshah's, we deny his military genius to our enemy.

I don't suppose we can speed the Badshah's death? Would his death increase or decrease the odds that his dynasty loses its way in decadence? Alternatively, could we get a good plot for independence going? We might get our errant brother on board and deny his abilities to our enemies without having to mash his head.

Too bad about Severus. What would enforcing our demands have gained us against the Badshah? I suspect lower crown authority, and independence.

At this point, we have passed my ability to offer advice.

OrcusMcP

2015-01-02, 05:26 PM

I don't suppose we can speed the Badshah's death? Would his death increase or decrease the odds that his dynasty loses its way in decadence?
I don't want you guys to meta-game this too hard, so I don't want to give too much away. But consider that Abdul-Aziz has been successfully Holy Warring, putting down Catholic Revolts and invading Christian kingdoms, and his current family decadence is still 13%.

Alternatively, could we get a good plot for independence going? We might get our errant brother on board and deny his abilities to our enemies without having to mash his head.
Again, don't want to meta-game too hard, but it is pretty much impossible for us to do any kind of serious faction plotting due to the fact that we are the only Catholic vassal. Plus, look at our troop numbers compared to the Badshah's.

Too bad about Severus. What would enforcing our demands have gained us against the Badshah? I suspect lower crown authority, and independence.
To be honest, I'm not entirely sure. There had been a confluence of faction/tyranny revolt going on, and I'm not sure which one was the primary reason for the war. If independence, then we'd have been independent. If Tyranny, then Abdul-Aziz would've abdicated and crown authority would've decreased.

At this point, we have passed my ability to offer advice.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Story is going to trump strategy. Please comment, argue, give advice, throw mud, harrumph, whatever. If it amuses you, offer it.

Rockphed

2015-01-02, 07:10 PM

Oh, I'm not meaning to metagame.:smallredface: I'm just thinking out loud a bit. You mentioned that the badshah was head of a dynasty that might be one generation from infighting and self destruction. Maybe his untimely demise would see us safe for another generation. Maybe it would spell our doom. I don't think our leader (with 2 intrigue) would go for offing our enemy with a knife in the dark anyway.

Wasn't the brother Catholic? Did he not end up vassal of the Badshah? He did such a wonderful job keeping the Badshah at bay I want him back. If he will not come back, we should at least prevent the Badshah from employing him against us. His strategy for winning our war was sound, after all. Our enemies were afraid to enter our father's kingdom because their losses would be greater than our own. Is this not how the Greeks were driven out when they invaded Italy? We need only find how to replicate this development and we shall be victorious. Can we raise a standing army of those who wish for citizenship?

Artanis

2015-01-02, 10:11 PM

Hmm...

The Badashah might be too strong to go after directly, and that looks like Abbasid green to the east...we're quickly running out of realistic conquest options.

*thinks*

How is Mali looking? Are we strong enough to take another crack at them at some point? If we aren't, what about after rushing Mil Org 2 to get rid of their d*** attrition?

OrcusMcP

2015-01-02, 10:59 PM

How is Mali looking? Are we strong enough to take another crack at them at some point? If we aren't, what about after rushing Mil Org 2 to get rid of their d*** attrition?

Sadly that got patched and it's back to MilOrg4 to prevent Pagan attrition.

Hydranova

2015-01-03, 12:15 PM

What abut Proselytizing, then fabricating claims?

Artanis

2015-01-03, 07:34 PM

Sadly that got patched and it's back to MilOrg4 to prevent Pagan attrition.
Even though that makes things harder in this LP, I actually am really glad to hear that. Putting it at MilOrg 2 was an attempt to put a bandaid over Charlemagne finally pushing the CKII engine past its breaking point, and really hurt all the other time periods.

At any rate, what expansion options do we have left? A couple independents nearby, but other than that, any chance of expanding elsewhere in-realm, or do we just have to wait for things to start falling apart around us so that we can pick up the pieces?

Also, IIRC being King of Mauretania is one of the requirements for making E.Mali, so if we ever do get strong enough to punch our way through the Sahara...:smallamused:

Rockphed

2015-01-03, 09:48 PM

What abut Proselytizing, then fabricating claims?

Yes, we must send out messengers to spread the good news, both of god and of rome! If there are no christian vassals to join our cause, we must make some!

OrcusMcP

2015-01-05, 09:03 AM

Sempronius is pleased by the Senate's desire to bring Mali to heel after they defied our Grandfather so shamefully, and such avenues will be followed with all reason. There are indeed still the duchies of Alger and Tlemcen that are, de-jure part of the Mauretanian sphere of influence and should be removed from the Badshah's direct control.

Malistrae

2015-01-07, 07:39 PM

(OOC) First of all, let me offer my sincerest thanks for this increasingly intriguing story. Romanising Northwest Africa is an entertaining concept.
In all things, we must follow the footsteps of our ancestors. Rome was a city of war, but it was also a city of trade and prosperity. To replenish his majesty's coffers, we need to acquire wealth. To do so, his majesty must focus on improving his Rulership or Business. An additional avenue might present itself in loans. I confess that I am unfamiliar with the society cultivated by our Umayyad overlords, but moneylenders of the Jewish faith might live within the empire, and they might provide a further source of income.
Further alliances should be sought in the chaotic confines of Western Europa. Allying ourselves with distant kingdoms and empires has proven to be disastrous. We need allies within the Umayyad Empire or close to it.
The Badsah is powerful, but old. We should try placating his wrath by guardianship contracts and gifts. The Umayyads are nearing the end of their use. As the etruscan dynasty was overthrown, so will be the Umayyads, when the time comes. We should concentrate on acquiring the remaining lands of Mauritania. Once they are within our grasp, we need only wait for the correct opportunity to throw off the yoke of our "masters". A succession crisis will certainly provide all the distraction we need.
It is our very ambition, and our very destiny, to rebuild the True Roman Empire. Nothing will stand against the rise of a new Rome!

OrcusMcP

2015-01-18, 12:42 PM

Chapter 7: Setting the Table (837-848)

An excerpt from Second Place: The Greats You Never Heard Of.

Much is made of Alexander the Great and his conquests, and not without reason. Pompeii and Ceasar both sought to emulate Alexander's greatness in their lifetimes in Rome, and there are countless example in the more recent past of conquerors who hearkened back to Alexander's dreams.

But no one remembers Philip the Second, Alexander's father. Would Alexander have been able to achieve his conquests if he didn't inherit a massive military force form his father? If Philip had avoided his assassination and set out to conquer even further would we instead be talking of Philip the Great? People will forget the runners up to history, those who set the stage, the background logistics that go into great deeds and great figures, because they aren't as romantic or glamorous. It is with this in mind that we turn to the reign of King (or Sultan, going by Umayyad records) Sempronius Gigas of Mauretania.

Few men would have been able to convince a newly formed kingdom formed on the backs of conquest and subjugation under one of the most expansionist empires of the era that a courtly diplomat was a better King than his warrior brother, but he still did.

A gifted diplomat and orator, he still kicked off his reign by bringing his brother Stadius back into the fold in 837CE. His silver tongue got him the coveted position of Grand Vizier in the Umayyad court, but the long history of antagonism and distrust between the Andalusian muslims and the Marrakechi Catholics meat this was a way to keep an eye on Sempronius.

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This relationship was put to the test when Sempronius was charged with negotiating with some Catholic rebels in the Aquitaine region of the Empire. As a Catholic himself, Sempronius was sympathetic to their plight, but the Gigas family was seen as weak in the heartlands of Catholic Europe. Untrustworthy cowards who lapped at the Muslim heel. When Sempronius offered some very generous terms to the rebels and extended his hand to seal the deal, the leader of the rebellion instead cut off the King's hand.

The King escaped with the assistance of his body guards, and the rebellion was then swiftly crushed, but he was never again able to write his own words, having to dictate them to pages.

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Sempronius was still an able diplomat, though, and continued on in his role as Grand Vizier. His wife, Gerberga, who likely also deserves more historical attention, was just as ambitious as her husband. She implored him, for the sake of their children, to press the Umayyad Badshah for more territory and responsibility. There were emirates to the east of Marrakech that, legally, should belong to the King. The Badhshah, Abdul-Aziz, was no fool however, and knew how to keep the Gigas family dangling.

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From there, in 842CE, some internal conflicts boiled over between the dukes of Fes and Tangiers, with the latter accusing the former of treason. Licinius, the Duke of Fes, accepted his arrest quietly, on the condition that his son be properly cared for. Sempronius accepted the responsibility and raised the boy as his own.

This boy is who Sempronius is setting the table for: The Future King Licinius Gigas.

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We now come to August 843CE. Sempronius has been attempting to convince the Mansa of Mali to accept missionaries, something the Mauretanian senate had been requesting, but with limited success, and Abdul-Aziz the Second was now Badshah of the Umayyad Empire, after his father had died of what historian now believe was a heart attack.

The younger Abdul-Aziz, while still a reasonably competent man, was not well liked by the other emirs of the Empire, many of them seeing the Badshah's weakness as an opportunity to enrich their own position. Sempronius was among them, and with his stranglehold on the African coast to prevent reinforcements from the east, the Umayyad Civil War began in december.

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Several battles would rage between the rebels and the Badshah, with the rebels always managing to come out on top. Superior leadership, larger gold reserves to hire mercenaries gave the rebels the advantage, while the emirs still loyal to the Badshah were not loyal enough to spare more than a token amount of troops. By 847, the rebels had won and the nobles had never had so much power since the founding of the Empire, while the Badshah himself had never been weaker.

In the meantime, the Mauretanian armies had been lucky enough to capture valuable hostages in all the fighting, and Duke Licinius of Fes managed to buy his own freedom as well. Sempronius then used all this treasure to invest in the construction of a proper city around the castle of Marrakech, though he would not see its completion himself.

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The records are spotty as to what exactly happened in the summer of 848 to cause it, but King Sempronius unfortunately came down with a terrible fever, and the old wound where his hand had been cut off was beginning to suddenly rot. The doctors could do little to stem the infection, and before they could amputate his arm further in a vain attempt to save the King's life, he passed away, leaving the young King Licinius Gigas on the throne. And we all know much of what he accomplished.

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OOC: Another chapter will come later this week, apologies for the delay.

OrcusMcP

2015-01-27, 01:21 PM

Chapter 8: The Life and Times of Licinius, Volume I (848-854)

My Marrakesh and my Mauretania need you, just as it needed me. There is much work to be done, and I know you, my successors, will be needing guidance. If you are to leave Marrakesh a city of Marble, then you will need to know how I left it of Brick when I found it still of wood. I know I am a singular Man, and that the motivations of such men can be daunting. Even my cousin, teacher and predecessor, Sempronius, who was a formidable man in his own right, knew he paled before the mind of a boy nearly 20 years his younger. Thus, I hope to leave to you, my successor, the wisdom of a great mind, accumulated over a lifetime of rule, hardship, victory, disappointment and ultimately triumph. It is only through a whole story that wisdom might be gained. All else is air and puppetry.

I doubt my dear cousin Sempronius desired to die before his 33rd birthday, but he had at least taught me well and instilled good Roman virtues such as bravery, diligence and patience. Being a diplomat, he taught me the values of kindness and charity, but I was, and am, too cynical to take those lessons completely to heart. After his death, I once again returned to study with my father, who taught me the ruthlessness necessary to survive when diplomats get their hands cut off.

At the same time, the first full city finished construction outside of Marrakech. Burghers, craftsmen and merchants now had a dedicated city in which to toil and pay taxes. Marrakech was wealthy and powerful as a tribe, but the recent feudal centralization was undermining the traditional strengths. The Mediterranean coasts were much more wealthy and established, so this was the first step to make Marrakech competitive again, lest the family's authority be questioned.

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After my coming of age in 850, there was a flurry of activity as I sought establish my long term plans. I married, sowed the seeds of a spy network throughout the Umayyad household, and arranged a claim on the other emirates of North Africa. The Badshah was forever the albatross around the neck of the Gigas family, and I had to defang the snake by any means necessary. I lost my father late in 851 and inherited his lands in Fes, but I decided to bequeath them to my little brother. He is equally gifted in intellect to myself, and having less to directly administer meant I could focus on larger matters.

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Then, at the start of 852, everything seemed to start falling into place for me, though it was horrible for everywhere else. The Abbasid Caliph called for a Jihad against the Rome of the East, while the Badshah declared his own invasion of Burgundy. I am unsure of what the Badshah's motivations were, whether he sought to emulate the glories of his father, or if he simply wished to assert his independence of the Caliph's spiritual authority, but having the two most powerful Muslim empires pointed north gave me much more room to maneuver.

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I immediately pressed my claim to the Tlemcen Emirate, and neither the Badshah nor the Umarid Emir amass the resources to stop me.

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Immediate, overwhelming force allowed me to occupy the land and force the surrender of the Emir in little over 2 years. I allowed the Umarids to keep their title, but they were required to renounce both their faith and their liege, submitting to my authority rather than to that of Allah. This was not how the ancestors waged war, nor how Stadius or Severus Gigas waged war, and there were howls in the senate. They could not see the value in leaving the tax infrastructure intact, the value in turning one man and having him turn the others rather than rebuilding from the ground up. They forgot the lessons of Ceasar. Clemency saved time, and much like Ceasar I was in too much of a hurry to wait.

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In the meantime, the Burgundian invasion raged on, the Badshah unable to find the breakthrough his father had in Aquitaine. He was making progress, but losing men and morale. Discontent among his lords was rising, and the longer the invasion without victory, the angrier they would become. Once again I resorted to immediate, overwhelming force, but with a dagger rather than thousands of swords. The Badshah had relocated towards the front of the war to lead it more directly, but he had unfortunately been a little to cruel and stingy to his guards. His son, unfortunately, proved to be much shrewder, but that story comes later.

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In my next volume, we will discuss further triumphs, but also how to recover from setbacks. Badshah M'an, as you know, proved to be a formidable opponent.

OOC: I've already played ahead a bit. Sorry for no votes and few maps the last couple sessions, been juggling a bunch of stuff. More maps will be coming next time, worry not.

Artanis

2015-01-27, 01:52 PM

Small note:

"neither the Badshah or the Umarid Emir could do little to stop me"
Looks like a bit of a mix-up while polishing up the draft. I only noticed it because the sheer amount of Awesome in this LP makes even a tiny grammatical boo-boo stand out :smallsmile:

Also, I may be slightly OCD. I blame my last job.

OOC: I've already played ahead a bit. Sorry for no votes and few maps the last couple sessions, been juggling a bunch of stuff. More maps will be coming next time, worry not.
No prob, even this little bit is still plenty Awesome :smallbiggrin:

OrcusMcP

2015-01-27, 02:02 PM

Small note:

Looks like a bit of a mix-up while polishing up the draft. I only noticed it because the sheer amount of Awesome in this LP makes even a tiny grammatical boo-boo stand out :smallsmile:

Also, I may be slightly OCD. I blame my last job.

Which mix-up do you mean? The Badshah is Umayyad, but the Emir is Umarid. Or should it have been "nor"?

Artanis

2015-01-27, 08:56 PM

Which mix-up do you mean? The Badshah is Umayyad, but the Emir is Umarid. Or should it have been "nor"?

The "neither could do little to stop me" sounds like one or both of them could do plenty to stop you. If you were trying to say that they were both helpless, I think it would be "neither could do much" or "both could do little". Of course, I tend to be mistaken on that sort of thing :smallredface:

Rockphed

2015-01-27, 10:29 PM

The "neither could do little to stop me" sounds like one or both of them could do plenty to stop you. If you were trying to say that they were both helpless, I think it would be "neither could do much" or "both could do little". Of course, I tend to be mistaken on that sort of thing :smallredface:

No, I noticed that problem as well. Not sure of the proper conjugation.

And I am glad to see that my calls for Badshah heads on pikes has been heeded. Now just to get them out of our lands for good.

OrcusMcP

2015-01-27, 10:37 PM

Grammar issues have been edited. Pedants. :smallwink:

OrcusMcP

2015-02-13, 09:24 AM

Apologies again for slow updating, a combination of many projects/responsibilities and Darkest Dungeon got in the way. New post should be up by Tuesday.

In the meantime, I want you guys to brainstorm a Proper Name for our growing Kingdom. No calling it "New Rome" or anything, though, since Rome itself is still a thing, as is Constantinople.

ObadiahtheSlim

2015-02-13, 10:39 AM

Maybe something like Roman Carthage or something like that?

Artanis

2015-02-13, 12:16 PM

Caxton

2015-02-13, 12:18 PM

Roma Africanus

Flickerdart

2015-02-13, 12:22 PM

Rome III: Rome with a Vengeance.

Squark

2015-02-13, 02:16 PM

Terra Gigantis, "The Land of the Giant."

Put me down for this one. I approve of the reference to the dynasty's illustrious founder.

OrcusMcP

2015-02-13, 02:38 PM

Terra Gigantis, "The Land of the Giant."

Ooooooh, papa likes, but is there a specific way to word it to be "The Land of the Giants"?

Artanis

2015-02-13, 03:41 PM

Ooooooh, papa likes, but is there a specific way to word it to be "The Land of the Giants"?

My Latin is pretty rusty, but IIRC changing the ending to Gigantum would make it plural. Gigantea is the adjective version though, which might work better from a writing perspective since then it would have the same ending throughout: Terra Gigantea.

:smallsmile:

OrcusMcP

2015-02-13, 04:15 PM

My Latin is pretty rusty, but IIRC changing the ending to Gigantum would make it plural. Gigantea is the adjective version though, which might work better from a writing perspective since then it would have the same ending throughout: Terra Gigantea.

:smallsmile:

Nice. Unless someone comes up with something better, I think we have a winner.

OrcusMcP

2015-02-17, 11:57 AM

Chapter 9: Life and Times of Licinius Gigas, Volume II (854-865)

If there is one thing I learned in the later years of the Burgundian Invasion, it was patience. The new Badshah, M'an, who would prove consistently savvy for a young boy, managed to hold onto the invasion and keep the various lords at bay. The various Lords outnumbered the Imperial armies, mired as they were in the Provencal mud, but there seemed to be something about the boy and his advisors that shamed them into obedience, even as their men were dying in the thousands for little gain.

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By 856, events began to come to a head. My dear brother Gaius came of age and was ready to assume his post as the Duke of Fez, my daughter Marina, my pride and joy was born, and the worthless sons of my old Mentor Sempronius decided that their backwards tribal lands were somehow powerful enough to threaten me.

I crushed them all within a year and renounced their petty titles. This sent a clear and unambiguous message to my other lords, and even within the wider Umayyad realm: The Badshah rules through fear and uncertainty, Licinius rules through decisive, bloody efficiency. None would threaten my rule internally again. There are times for clemency and mercy, even after a war or a rebellion, but not after an insult like this. If any other proper Romans truly desired a return to the tribal ways of the old Marrakesh, I would happily send them south of the desert so that they might try their luck with the Mansa of Mali.

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In the next couple years, the Badshah had come into his own maturity, and was sadly succeeding in turning the invasion back to his advantage. I have conflicting feelings about my brother Christians in Gaul, for while they clearly fight bravely and clearly desire to see the Muslim armies safely behind the Pyrenees as Charles Martel of old had done, they are seemingly incapable of working together to mount a sufficient defense. Badshah M'an does not have the men his father did, the invasion has been ongoing for years and years, yet the Franks are still hemorrhaging men and coin in pursuit of scouting parties and ghosts. They refuse any help from us, and in turn when we seek aid against the Umayyads they refuse to offer any. Perhaps the Christians could learn a thing or two about the Islamic virtue of shared community.

Though where that community was when I finally brought Alger to heel, I could not tell you. By Easter, 862, all of Mauretania proper was mine save some small outposts, and those would be mine in time.

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Before that final victory, however, I received two pieces of news. One happy, the other shocking. My other pride, Minervina was born, and like her sister Marina was cut from the same cloth like Gaius and myself. The other news, was the Byzantium was crumbling. The Abassids had succeeded in their invasion of Anatolia, while the Shia Hasan had broken through the Cilician Gates. The remainder of the empire was a patchwork of duchies, and the King of Georgia sought to remove his tether from the corpse.

In the meantime, words of my deeds in the Umayyad courts and my successes at threading the needles of assassination and conquest had spread far and wide. I was commonly known as Licinius the Wise, but now the name was spoken of with Irony. Licinius the Cunning was more accurate, though few would have spoken it to my face. The Senate, in their own brand of wisdom, suggested I take up hunting as a way to show that I had some scruples and distinction, though perhaps they simply thought my arrows better suited to find the bodies of animals than men.

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Then, in early 863, I received a sign from the Lord God Almighty. I thanked the senate profusely for giving me the guidance to become a hunter, though they did not understand fully why. In the light of a new dawn in the Atlas, I spied upon a White Barbary Lion. Larger than any previously seen. It was only for a moment, but we locked eyes and I could hear the Voice of God. My time had come. Mauretania would rise.

When I returned to the castle, a report greeted me from my best spy, that enough of the lords in Aquitaine were tired of the Umayyad yoke that together our numbers exceeded what the Badshah had in Burgundy. I hastily wrote letters calling them to war, and sent a personally drafted declaration to the Badshah. It surprised me that it was not M'an who responded, but his son Musa. Apparently M'an had died a day before my letter arrived, but not before arranging peace with Burgundy. The invasion was over, and the Umayyad empire stretched to the Alps.

The young boy pleaded that we come to terms, but there were still veiled threats and an imperious attitude I knew too well. He promised that Allah would provide justice to those who deserved it. I agreed. We would not be swayed. The time for independence had come.

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The war itself was a mockery of all the logistics and planning that went into it. The only reason victory came to us so late in 865 was because it took that long to march armies from Africa and Gaul to the middle of Aragon. The days of mighty Andalus seemed so recent, but too many of their soldiers were dead in the mud and foothills of Burgundy that it was a simple matter of crushing the first army that came our way to secure victory.

Mauretania was mine, and no others. We were unburdened once again. The Senate was quick to empower me further, and a long sought legal loophole was closed. We were now a proper Elective Monarchy rather than the Gavelkind Tribe from the time of my Grandfathers. We were free, we had opportunity, but we still had challenges.

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It was not long before I had to begin planning the future of not only a newly independent Kingdom, but one with both power and room to grow.

First was to determine a proper heir under the new laws. My brother Gaius was a mighty warrior and the current favourite of the Senate, but what of my daughters Marina and Minervina? Many in the Senate were still crusty conservatives, it would be difficult to convince them to support a Queen, but these two young girls showed great promise. Marina was quickly learning at my feet the sly tricks of the shadows, while Minervina was as yet too young to have an official education. She could become anything she wanted.

Next, I had to determine what path Mauretania should take. Should we return to the old Senatorial decree of Conversion and Conquest of Mali? What of the Welsh? Time and again they were happy to offer lip service of alliance, and every time we sought aid we were refused. I was now in a prime position to punish their insolence. I personally was in favour of a policy of Silence. While we were powerful, there were still two empires at our doorstep and any sign of weakness would be seized upon. The tribal lands still required tending and Marrakesh itself was still woefully underbuilt as a seat of power.

Challenges lay ahead of me, but I still think fondly of those heady days of promise.

You may yet know those days as well.

mythmonster2

2015-02-17, 04:25 PM

Now is not the time to rock the boat. We must be cautious and secure our position. Gaius is the most obvious choice for heir, for choosing either of the daughters would upset the other lords. We should be silent on the foreign front and focus on developing our kingdom to stand up to the Badshah even at his full forces.

Cristo Meyers

2015-02-17, 11:23 PM

I agree, let us take the silent path and solidify our newly-won kingdom. This world we are building will be the foundation of our new Rome, a kingdom to stand for ages, we must make sure it is properly laid. The sacrifices of our forefathers will mean nothing if our rule is wrested from us.

Let Gaius be the heir apparent. The future changes by the day, we should make the solid choice rather than the possibilities Marina and Minerva represent.

Flickerdart

2015-02-17, 11:47 PM

Is that a super-Frisia I see on the map? That's a rare sight.

IthilanorStPete

2015-02-18, 12:10 AM

Gaius shall make for a wonderful heir; while Marina and Minervina have great potential, Gaius has already fulfilled that same potential. The rule of Lucinius has been decisive and strong enough that silence shall speak for itself, without needing vainglorious conquests.

Hydranova

2015-02-18, 04:21 PM

Is that a super-Frisia I see on the map? That's a rare sight.

What's happening elsewhere in Europe to warrant the AI seemingly getting the Frisia achievement on its own?

OrcusMcP

2015-02-18, 04:54 PM

Well, if you look back to the State of the World (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18603934&postcount=102), you'll notice that Karloman the Mad is the King of Frisia (among other titles). He died in the middle of the invasion, and the Karling Kavelkind Klown Kar has lead to a Karling Frisia standing alone.

Also, if the AI has multiple kingdom title, they'll tend towards making the one that matches their culture primary. An earlier powerful Karling turned Dutch and formed the kingdom of Frisia, and then made it his primary title. (This was back when the Umayyads invaded Aquitane). His heir was Frankish though, and switched back to one of the Frankish titles (East Francia)

northern Europe in general is a mess, it's ripe for the plucking. Bavaria looked ready to take over but has crumbled. The independent muslim emirs in Aquitane are either gonna steamroll into a power on their own, or Frisia or Middle Francia will scoop them up and try to become powerful again. Lombardy is still pretty strong, but they haven't done much.

Hydranova

2015-02-18, 05:07 PM

On the one hand, super-Frisia. On the other, Karlings. Hmmmm....

OrcusMcP

2015-03-02, 10:53 AM

Chapter 10: Life and Times of Licinius Gigas, Volume III (865-882)

In the rush of our newfound freedom and prosperity, there was a demand of celebration from all, from the senate, the people and my soldiers. I provided the greatest feast seen in the Atlas mountains since the times of old Carthage, and then threw a great tournament to give my soldiers a chance for honour and to sate the people's desires. My first daughter, Sulpicia, came of age at this time, and though she was not my favourite, a surprise guest at the tournament was quite taken with her and asked for her hand in marriage: Athanasios Issauros, the heir to Byzantium. With their marriage, an alliance was secured. Both the Greeks and the Senate saw the beginnings of a resurgence of Christianity as the northerners disintegrated.

The wife of one of the senators offered a very strange tribute at the wedding as well, though one I have grown very fond of: My faithful hunting dog Tricky. Perhaps she wished for me to promote her husband, but the man was of such non-importance that I now cannot even remember his name.

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I believe it was around the year 868 that the Badshah came of age, and through some sheer hubris, he began to call himself "The Magnificent". What gall. He was inferior to me in every way, had just lost a major war that saw his prized lands in Africa wrested from him, could barely keep his loyal vassals in check, and he claims to be magnificent? I resolved to make his name a joke, but I was patient. Too much else was happening at this time.

Catholicism continued to spread in the mountains, while our allies in Byzantium were abandoning their lands in Anatolia. The Abassids and Hasans were too strong, so they sought to consolidate their power in the Balkans. They conquered the merchant city of Venice to use as a naval staging ground, and then started a dedicated conquest of the Adriatic coast.

It was a few years later that some fascinating news came from the east: The Slavs had formalized their faith. Powerful tribes were consolidating their power in the Baltics and in Rus, and the Ruthenian priests had written a codified Holy Book. While I weep for their souls, since now it is unlikely they will ever know the love of the Lord, it is an understandable movement. The hated Norse raid their shores, the Muslims come at them from the south, the steppe peoples from the east and we Christians threaten them from the West. Their faith must be all that keeps them warm and safe. I pity them.

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Life was quiet in the next few years. I attended to the Senate, the building project in Marrakesh, I hunted, and the Kingdom was becoming more and more powerful and prosperous.

By 879, we no longer thought of ourselves as Mauretania. The people's reverence for my deeds and those of my ancestors, and the long history of the Atlas mountains, the tall towers of the castles, we were now Terra Gigantea. The Land of the Giants.

My prides, Marina and Minervinia came of age to be brilliant and beautiful women who would have been greater than the ancient kings of old, but were taken from the world far too soon. Dreaded diseases claimed both of my talented daughters. Meanwhile, my brother Gaius had lost integrity of both body and mind. I worried that there would be no Giant to succeed me, and so it was at this moment I began the volumes you read now, so that my wisdom might survive in some form or another.

My grief led me to seek further and further solace in my hunts, to the point where my wife began complaining. She did not understand what I was looking for. I sought the elusive White Lion that had spoken to me with the voice of the Lord. I needed guidance and solace, and she certainly was not offering any.

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It was on one of these hunts in the middle of 879 that I came across a cottage, and found solace of a different sort. I could hear whispers not unlike the ones I heard from the Lion in my mind, so I knew that this woman would become part of my destiny. I brought my darling Modia back with me to Marrakesh, and after my shrew of a wife fell off a balcony, we were married not long after. Many in the senate questioned my morality for not waiting an appropriate time to mourn, and certainly did not trust this woman of the wilds, but they too did not understand what I sought.

Modia breathed new life into me. She had a gift for words and a bewitching smile, and I felt more alive and vigorous than I had ever been before. We truly were a pair of colossi astride the world.

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It was the following year when dire news came from the east. The Shia had launched a full invasion of Greece, and the Byzantines were too entrenched in the their Balkan campaigns to do much to halt it. They pleaded for aid, and though we were able to send treasure, we could not send many troops. Our shipbuilding infrastructure had not yet been fully completed, and the prospect of marching all the way to Anatolia did not bode well.

At the same time, the full reality of the Slavic Reformation hit us: They hadn't reformed to defend, they had reformed to attack, and Germany was their first target.

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In 881, however, everything changed, for my darling Modia of the Wild had helped me find something I had been seeking for years.

I once again heard the voice of God Almighty.

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Note: Licinius is now a Genius, Strong, and a Lunatic. You may freely recommend ANYTHING and I will try to make it happen, even if I have to cheat a bit to do it. We may implode spectacularly or we will achieve massive, massive glory.

Cristo Meyers

2015-03-02, 08:18 PM

Flickerdart

2015-03-02, 08:28 PM

Hydranova

2015-03-02, 08:34 PM

Countrymen! The South is marked with an S, correct? Scandinavia begins with an S. A common delicacy is Swedish Fish. There is a fish on many coat of arms from India. St. Thomas went to India. St. Thomas was an apostle. St. Peter was also an apostle. St. Peter was the Bishop of Rome. You know who is the Bishop of Rome?

We must become the Pope.

Cristo Meyers

2015-03-02, 08:53 PM

Actually, a couple of historical maps had south on top and north on the bottom.

What madness is this?! There should be a law! A law I say!

--

I thought it was south was always pointing towards Jerusalem. Huh, the more you know.

Flickerdart

2015-03-02, 09:03 PM

What madness is this?! There should be a law! A law I say!

--

I thought it was south was always pointing towards Jerusalem. Huh, the more you know.
Apparently it's because the Chinese considered their compasses to point south, and so drew maps with the south on the top. This practice then migrated to the Arab world, while in Europe, maps pointed every which way (with the East sometimes on top!). North came out on top, as it were, because Ptolemy did it that way, and Renaissance cartographers were obsessed with him.

IthilanorStPete

2015-03-02, 09:07 PM

This may be too reasonable and rational for Licinius in his current state, but it's time to truly fulfill the legacy of ancient Rome:

Carthago. Delenda. Est.

mythmonster2

2015-03-02, 09:34 PM

OrcusMcP

2015-03-03, 09:34 AM

Clearly the time has come to subjugate the Mali! They must be the source of the voices: voices come from demons, demons live in the realm below ours, south is below us on the map, ergo Mali is the realm of demons and must be subjugated for the good of all! Quid pro cognito ergo sum!
Yes!

Countrymen! The South is marked with an S, correct? Scandinavia begins with an S. A common delicacy is Swedish Fish. There is a fish on many coat of arms from India. St. Thomas went to India. St. Thomas was an apostle. St. Peter was also an apostle. St. Peter was the Bishop of Rome. You know who is the Bishop of Rome?

We must become the Pope.
YES!

This may be too reasonable and rational for Licinius in his current state, but it's time to truly fulfill the legacy of ancient Rome:

Carthago. Delenda. Est.
Invade the largest empire of the age in a vainglorious quest to honour our ancestors? YES INDEED!

Cristo Meyers

2015-03-03, 09:41 AM

Invade the largest empire of the age in a vainglorious quest to honour our ancestors? YES INDEED!

Ancestors? Who're they? I thought we were doing this for Tricky.

(:smalltongue:)

OrcusMcP

2015-03-03, 09:48 AM

Ancestors? Who're they? I thought we were doing this for Tricky.

(:smalltongue:)

We haven't gotten the Horse Chancellor event yet, but if we do, then I'm going to rule that it's Tricky instead of Glitterhoof.

Rockphed

2015-03-03, 09:59 AM

I cannot top any of those ideas.

Cristo Meyers

2015-03-03, 10:13 AM

We haven't gotten the Horse Chancellor event yet, but if we do, then I'm going to rule that it's Tricky instead of Glitterhoof.

It's a crime that the Horse Chancellor event doesn't check to see if you've a hunting dog.

...it's also a bit of a missed opportunity now that we didn't name him Lucifer.

Malimar

2015-03-03, 12:25 PM

Clearly the time has come to subjugate the Mali! They must be the source of the voices: voices come from demons, demons live in the realm below ours, south is below us on the map, ergo Mali is the realm of demons and must be subjugated for the good of all! Quid pro cognito ergo sum!

Yes, this! Except the voices are good, listen to the voices, the voices are wise and shan't guide us astray! Mali is the source of the voices? That must mean that the heathens to the south have actually hit upon the One True Religion! How else could they have thrown back our noble ancestors so easily? :smallfurious: And, naturally, we ourself are the one true savior, destined to give voice and might to the One True Religion! To wit: we must invade Mali, convert to West African, and reform the pagan faith!

OrcusMcP

2015-03-05, 07:21 PM

Madness is no substitute for power, sadly. Sad update to come by Monday.

Dragolord

2015-03-06, 01:20 AM

Clearly the time has come to subjugate the Mali! They must be the source of the voices: voices come from demons, demons live in the realm below ours, south is below us on the map, ergo Mali is the realm of demons and must be subjugated for the good of all! Quid pro cognito ergo sum!

If it isn't too late, then the ultimate conclusion of this logic is as follows: Mali is in the south, where all the demons live. Norway is in the north, where all the angels live. Clearly, the Norse peoples have become closer to the Lord than any others (well, Iceland, I suppose)! We must convert to Germanic Paganism, raid the Badshah, become Fylkir and concert to Norwegian culture when we can. All without shifting from Marrakech.

OrcusMcP

2015-03-09, 10:55 AM

Chapter 11: Life and Times of Licinius Gigas, Volume IV (882-894)

We come now to my final volume. The Lord know how much I suffered and bled for my Kingdom and its people, and how much I accomplished, and now you will as well. I made Mauretania into the Land of Giants, and the Lord saw fit to tear everything down. I left Marrakech a city of brick after it was made of wood, but I left it in flames. When my Modia helped me hear the voice of God once more, I never expected that voice to tell me how wrong I was.

All had been done for His Glory, and now I am laid low. My life and my wisdom are now for you to take up.

In the midst of life we are in death, and as my wife Modia provided me with children born of Eden itself, The Lord took from me my oldest children and my dearest alliances.

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As the Franks requested our help, their king fell and left my infant Grandson on the throne, yet Clovis was scarcely bigger than his own crown. Christianity in the North seemed doomed.

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In the east, the Hasan invasion was halted as Byzantium managed to trap their armies on the island of Rhodes and annihilate them.

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It was then, in 884, that I announced the invasion into Abbasid Africa. God had assured me of victory, and I would see it done.

God did not warn me that the Hasan would come. God did not warn me that my judgement had come.

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The full realization of my doom came too late. First a trickle of Shia armies arrived on my shores, then a wave, then a flood. We were powerless to stop them. I heard only the laughter of the Lord in my head, but as the years and devastation wore on it began to sound more and more like the laugh of the Eden snake. When I was presented with a package containing the head of my beloved brother Gaius, I surrendered. In late 889, my glorious Kingdom was no more.

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I will never understand what possessed my cousin to then declare against me, perhaps being king of the rubble still means you are king.

The Emperor of Hispania took even that away from me, though.

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Finally, the voice I had been hearing all these years identified itself. It was not God, but my ancestor Stadius, the first Gigas. He praised my achievments, and offered his sympathy, but he could not stop the tide. Christianity in Africa was dead. Rome was dying. He counseled me to get as much of the family to the Roman homeland as possible. Then he told me to pray. It is with this prayer that I close my memoirs:

May Rome be kept in the bosom of the Lord from now until the end of days, and may there always be room for Giants in the Kingdom of God.

Amen

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1892 Editor's note: It is unclear exactly when Licinius finished his memoirs, but it was certainly around the time of his daughter Octavia's wedding. He withdrew from public life, and those who did meet with him would often note the sadness in his eyes and the desperate conversations he seemed to have with thin air.

In June of 894, after dinner, he received a letter that the Emperor of Hispania (The emperor spoke more Occitan than Andalusian at this time and addressed his court accordingly), that a new invasion of Europe had begun, this one for France.

Licinius then reportedly began screaming and howling in despair, and threw himself into the sea in the moonlight. He was never seen again.

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Sigh. Well, I suppose that's what happens. We are back to being a small heathen tribal vassal to a massive multicultural empire. Except now, there is another large empire right beside us, and another even larger empire beyond it. Christianity is dying. Only Italy, Greece and the Isles continue to have strong Christian presences. Everywhere else is being pushed.

We have a couple of options, so I'll leave it to a vote:

-High Chief Decimus is another Genius, and like all Gigas he is a survivor. However, it is becoming increasingly clear that to survive in the Muslim world means embracing Islam.
-Princess Octavia is married matrilinealy to the heir of Lombardy. A return to Italy might help keep the Gigas family Christian, Roman and in high stature.

Where should the Gigas family turn?

Dragolord

2015-03-09, 11:47 AM

To Lombardy and Octavia! The proud Roman ancestors of our people were nothing when they clawed their way up to near-ultimate power, ruling from Roma, and now we must do the same. Claim Lombardy, form Italia, and work on rebuilding ties with, usurping, then reforming the Byzantine Empire! (Also, I still think that Norse Romans are awesome.)

Cristo Meyers

2015-03-09, 11:49 AM

We have a couple of options, so I'll leave it to a vote:

-High Chief Decimus is another Genius, and like all Gigas he is a survivor. However, it is becoming increasingly clear that to survive in the Muslim world means embracing Islam.
-Princess Octavia is married matrilinealy to the heir of Lombardy. A return to Italy might help keep the Gigas family Christian, Roman and in high stature.

Where should the Gigas family turn?

I can see both ways: challenge-wise Decimus is the obvious choice, but I think Octavia creates a more interesting narrative.

So of course, me being the narrative-focused wannabe writer I am, I'm voting for Octavia.

All around us, the ambition of Giants has been laid low, turned to ash and dust. But there is one left, sitting in the seat of old Roman power, that can turn the tide. Don't lament the loss of old Gigantea, glory in the coming birth of the new one!

Artanis

2015-03-09, 12:42 PM

I vote Octavia.

IthilanorStPete

2015-03-09, 01:04 PM

Another vote for Princess Octavia.

Dragolord

2015-03-09, 02:21 PM

Now I think about it, how on earth did you persuade the King to marry off his heir matrilineally? I thought that only your liege could force you to?

mythmonster2

2015-03-09, 04:05 PM

We shall never fall to the crescent of Islam! Let us return to Italy with Octavia.

OrcusMcP

2015-03-09, 09:52 PM

Now I think about it, how on earth did you persuade the King to marry off his heir matrilineally? I thought that only your liege could force you to?

He was in a vassal's court, and so his liege was the vassal who didn't care.

EDIT: Alternatively, maybe Licinius had magical powers. :small wink:

No, it was the vassal thing.

OrcusMcP

2015-03-11, 10:40 AM

Looks like Octavia is the clear winner. Due to patriarchy technical limitations, I had to cheat a little to get Octavia some land. Update should come by early next week.

Dragolord

2015-03-16, 11:26 AM

Will you rename Lombardy? I mean, a French Karling kingdom doesn't really seem appropriate, especially when ruled by the heirs of Roma.

OrcusMcP

2015-03-16, 11:53 AM

Chapter 12: No more mister nice Christ (894-910)

Christianity has always played a strange role in post-classical Europe. Many scholars see the softening aspect of Christianity as one of the major factors of the fall of the Western Roman Empire, and many others raise skeptical eyebrows about the sincerity of the conversion of Clovis. Yet the church proved resilient and attractive enough that most of Europe and the Mediterranean world had accepted Christ by the 600s. The Christ of the classical world was always a figure of peace and mercy, offering salvation and forgiveness. While these have always been values that people of all classes desired, those messages of peace and harmony seem out of place among the warlike natures and desires of people like the Romans, Greeks and Franks. Similarly, it should not be forgotten that the last barbarians to burn Rome were themselves Christian.

Since those times, though, there have been 3 major religions that have risen to challenge the supremacy of the Carpenter King. Islam spread to fill the void left by the devastation between Byzantium and Persia, and through a combination of force of arms and welcoming policies came to encompass all of Northern Africa, Persia, Arabia, North Africa, Iberia, and in the later years of the 9th century, France. The strange Germanic pagans of Saxony and Scandinavia were always forboding and aggressive, but now seek to plunder and conquer the richer lands of northern Europe with their unparalleled longships. Finally, the Slavs from the North East of the Danube have codified their faith in councils not unlike those seen in the earlier days of Christianity and are solidifying their hold in the lands of the Rus and are spreading east and west.

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It was not all doom for Christianity, though. The Isles were a bastion of monastic orders, Italy and Greece still held firm, but there continued to be lots of tension on the northern and eastern borders of Byzantium. Roman culture had begun to return to southern Italy after the Lombard takeover in the form of Octavia Gigas. A granddaughter of the great but doomed Licinius Gigas of Terra Gigantea, a refugee to her ancestral homeland. She was married to the heir to throne of Lombardy, and the family was given land in Capua until such time as Faroald was to succeed his father.

Octavia proved to be a capable wife, mother and administrator. While her husband was often forced away on realm business, they had several children and kept the land productive and prosperous. We will discuss the children more later in our narrative, as they become far more important as adults then as children.

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Like with Octavia, the years leading up to 900CE certainly seemed to be building up to something major. A new emperor came to power in Byzantium, the emperor of Hispania abandoned the rest of his family to found his own dynasty, and the new pope began to speak of great deeds. At least, he did when he wasn't speaking in tongues. Finally, Shia power in the Levant was cracking as a new dynasty took over from the Hasan.

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It was January 1st, 900CE, when Pope Celestine made the announcement: No longer would it simply be that Kings could call war in the name of Christ, Christ Himself would now go to war. Theological scholars have debated whether he meant this literally or not, but the wider world of Christendom understood it as metaphor and prepared accordingly. The Crusades had begun. Christianity had been on the defensive for too long and would now have to go on a major offensive if it was to survive.

Charters were granted and Papal bulls announced the formation of the knightly monastic orders. Many Christian warriors were tired of serving under kings who sought only their own glory, rather than devoting their success to God. Many flocked to the new monastic standards, and by June of 900CE there was a critical mass accumulated in Rome that Celestine had to do something, and what he did was call a crusade for Francia.

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Our records of the next years are spotty, as significant destruction was waged across all of Europe as Christian and Muslim crashed into each other over and over again. Things were beginning to calm down by the latter half of the decade and we begin to see some clearer records. Interestingly, many are from North Africa. The Crusade continued on, with neither side gaining a decisive advantage, but the momentum was on the Catholic side.

A new Berber revolt had broken out, seeking to re-establish Terra Gigantea as a Catholic power separate from the Levantine Shia or the other Muslim powers. These Berbers had lost faith in the founders of the kingdom, since Decimus Gigas had converted to Islam and Octavia was playing house-countess in Capua, but there was enough unrest in the wider Muslim world that by November of 909 they had succeeded and the Ammarids had created a new Catholic Berber state in the Atlas mountains.

Also, the Hispanian records mention a strategic opportunity in Middle Francia, describing disillusioned heretic separatists who hated both their king and the new militancy gripping the Catholic church. They had managed to carve themselves a realm in Luxembourg, and the Muslims were hoping that once they had defeated the crusaders they could push into Germany through the heretics.

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Finally, we come to the year 910CE, when the elder King Faroald died. The man had stubbornly refused to join the crusade despite the Pope being on his doorstep, but now Faroald the 2nd was on the throne, and he had gotten a strong taste of the crusading life on the urging of his now Queen Octavia. Though Faroald still clung to the old Lombard traditions, his Queen and his children were heirs to the Gigas Roman tradition and soon Italy might be a land where Italian was spoken again. And the Lords of Lombardy were none to pleased about this.

Until next time...

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OrcusMcP

2015-03-16, 12:03 PM

Will you rename Lombardy? I mean, a French Karling kingdom doesn't really seem appropriate, especially when ruled by the heirs of Roma.

Normally those names go away if different cultures end up in charge, but I'm not sure if those rules work for a culture that's not supposed to be playing (Roman). There may be another re-naming vote later on.

Flickerdart

2015-03-17, 09:58 AM

A lot of the kingdom names are keyed to a specific variable being retained - for instance, West Francia will become France and East Francia will become Germany as soon as the Karlings lose their hold. Not sure if Middle Francia will become Lotharingia or not, nor what the trigger condition is for Lombardy > Italy.

Artanis

2015-03-17, 01:37 PM

OrcusMcP

2015-03-17, 02:01 PM

Well, as fleeting as the usage of my suggested name was, it was still awesome to have been able to contribute :smallbiggrin:

Keep up the great work on the LP. Even if I haven't been saying much recently, rest assured that I am following this closely :smallsmile:

Well, it's still the official name of the Mauretania Kingdom whenever anyone has it now. The Ammarids are Berber, so their dynasty name overrides the kingdom name. The dream lives on. :smallbiggrin:

Cristo Meyers

2015-03-17, 02:09 PM

Well, it's still the official name of the Mauretania Kingdom whenever anyone has it now. The Ammarids are Berber, so their dynasty name overrides the kingdom name. The dream lives on. :smallbiggrin:

"Let all ye know that this land was the land of Giants, and be ye warned that they will return."

er...don't mind me. Just chewing the scenary.

Hydranova

2015-03-18, 07:17 AM

I know that Lombardy -> Italy is whenever a non-Lombard culture controls k_Italy.

OrcusMcP

2015-03-18, 08:56 AM

Flickerdart

2015-03-18, 10:27 AM

I know that Lombardy -> Italy is whenever a non-Lombard culture controls k_Italy.
Oh okay, so we should be able to flip it then, assuming we actually take control.

Dragolord

2015-03-18, 03:06 PM

Played, update should come by Monday, and I'll do a state of the world as well, since neat stuff is going on.

If we get all the way to the end, I'm kinda excited to export this world to EU4 and see what it does.

Become instantly more boring without insane Genius hunter-kings who help random Dukes to end their liege's line for fun and bragging rights?

Duke 1: "Hey, guess what? I held back my troops when my rival vassal's land was Holy Warred by our neighbour!"

Lombard Duke: "I matrilinearly married off my future King to some tiny backwards African nutcase's daughter."

Duke 1: "Damn. Have we invented award ceremonies yet?"

OrcusMcP

2015-03-18, 03:14 PM

Become instantly more boring without insane Genius hunter-kings who help random Dukes to end their liege's line for fun and bragging rights?

Duke 1: "Hey, guess what? I held back my troops when my rival vassal's land was Holy Warred by our neighbour!"

Lombard Duke: "I matrilinearly married off my future King to some tiny backwards African nutcase's daughter."

Duke 1: "Damn. Have we invented award ceremonies yet?"

I have a very strong feeling that the CK2 AI is run on the principle of "It seemed like a good idea at the time!"

Flickerdart

2015-03-18, 03:33 PM

I have a very strong feeling that the CK2 AI is run on the principle of "It seemed like a good idea at the time!"
Or perhaps "what's the worst that can happen?"

OrcusMcP

2015-03-23, 10:15 AM

Chapter 13: Souls are at stake. (910-924)

As the decade turned in 910, the war for the soul and dignity of the Christian church continued. I don't just mean the French Crusades, or the heroic defense of Greece by the Byzantines against the Caliph, but a battle for the faith itself. With the benefit of hindsight, all this war and devastation seems to us like an extinction burst, and likely felt even more urgent to live as it does to us to observe.

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A new Ezi Badshah had come to power, but he was a young untested boy. He and his council continued to hold on bravely and valiantly in the French heartland, but slowly and surely they lost ground.

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The Lollards, fresh off their victory in rebelling against the Franks of the Rhine, suddenly found themselves under assault from Frisia. Clovis Karling, grandson of the mighty but unstable Licinius, had consolidated his power and sought to reclaim Catholic glory in Germany. After conquering land from the Lollards in 913, he then pushed east against the Ruthenian enclave in Franconia.

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In Italy, King Faroald was driving himself to drink trying to keep the realm together, while his Queen Octavia was busy trying to ensure her family was well cared for and spread out. Her daughter Domna was married to the upcoming King of Pictland in 913, but Domna sadly did not survive her first winter in the frozen highlands, and the Picts were driven out of their lands when the Norse Danesmen invaded. In 916 her son Maximus, heir apparent to the throne, came of age and was a fine specimen of royal potential. Many lords offered their daughters to the prince, but the Queen insisted he wait.

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The King, meanwhile, had heretics of his own to deal with. The Cathars had fortified themselves in Southern Italy, and were a constant source of unrest. Though the king put down the revolt and finished the conquest of Provence, many of the various Lords of Lombardy demanded some authority be loosened, and the King did not have the resources to fully fight them off.

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In 919, the Cathar problem had become so acute, that even the Papacy itself was under attack. With the majority of the Papal State's forces in France for the Crusade, all the Pope could do was hope and pray the defenses of Rome would hold.

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Now, it is worth pausing to consider why these heresies were suddenly becoming a major concern. The Catholic Church was finally starting to push back against its external threats, yes, but there were structural problems that ran deep. The Holy Orders were founded because the Kings cared more for indulging their appetites than defending their borders; Popes cycled into Rome with mistresses and died with illegitimate sons and daughters on the streets; France and Iberia had fallen to Islam a hundred years earlier, and only now did the cardinals care enough to act; a revival of proper Roman Catholicism had been underway in North Africa all under its own power until shot down by the Shia.

The Cathars of southern Italy saw the indulgence of the nearby Papal court and rejected it, opting for a more austere life, both physically and spiritually. Though abhoring the violence, many of the rebel heretic soldiers fought to release themselves from their sinful, worldly existence, the better to escape the demiurge of life.

The Lollards of the Rhine instead saw the problem in the chaplains of the various kingdoms and principalities of France and Germany. By indulging their Lords rather than tending to their flock, they had abandoned the true Church of the Saved. They sought to establish a new, faithful society where the lay priests held authority over the community, where Godly men of all kinds might read and quote scripture to best know when and how to act.

And the Waldensians of Britain, a new movement, was most sympathetic with the Catholic Holy Orders, admiring their focus on dedication and asceticism. Britain had never been a wealthy area, and the vast wealth demanded by the Catholic hierarchy was not attainable for most Godly men, even the chiefs and Kings, so a movement of poverty and simplicity circulated among the priestly class.

Thus, you can see what I mean when I mentioned that the wars raging were a war for souls as much as they were for land.

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Come 922, life began to calm down in Europe. The Crusade finished in triumph, with Frankish Karlings once again in charge of France. The Umayyads had returned to power in Hispania. The Gigas family continued to quietly expand its influence.

The Shia launched another Jihad to retake Terra Gigantea from the Catholic Amarrids, but the Shia were no longer the power they were even 25 years previous.

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http://imageshack.com/a/img537/9738/0Y23BR.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img661/8296/r7mzEf.png
Then, in 923, the Cathars took Rome.

http://imageshack.com/a/img633/311/0sJgUr.png
Unfortunately, their timing could not have been worse for them. Queen Octavia the Holy called for a Holy War to take back the Papal Seat, and the military wings of the Orders answered, still armed from the Crusades.

The victory came swiftly, and King Faroald reinstated the Pope to the throne of St. Peter.

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This was just the beginning, though. Faroald grew old and fat, and his son Maximus would soon be the first Roman King of Italy. The Cathars continued to seek purity through death in their various rebellions in the south, and the Caliph once again threatened Greece with invasion.

In those tense times, it would have been impossible to tell if the extinction burst would be survived.

OOC: SotW will come in the next day or so, and path voting will happen when Maximus is in power. One question, though, do we want to stick with Octavia until she dies, or transfer to Maximus when he inherits?

Flickerdart

2015-03-23, 11:00 AM

Huh, that's weird. The capital of the Catholic Church isn't in Rome?

Cristo Meyers

2015-03-23, 11:02 AM

Huh, that's weird. The capital of the Catholic Church isn't in Rome?

Maybe it got moved when the Cathar rebels seized it?

--

I vote we move on to Maximus when he inherits.

Flickerdart

2015-03-23, 11:09 AM

Maybe it got moved when the Cathar rebels seized it?
Maybe. This is why I dislike that CK2 and EU4 don't have region trading, like the Total War games. "Let's swap this worthless piece of land you don't need for your historic capital" should be a perfectly acceptable way of resolving this.

Although the TW AI is always reluctant to give up the most garbage of regions for their own victory condition regions. I wanted to return Brandenburg to Prussia after I took it from Napoleon, but they wouldn't accept any kind of trade, had the "captured capital" opinion malus, and then attacked me over it. So naturally I beat them up, subjugated the lot, and released Brandenburg as a protectorate (which is only possible if you are taking the capital while they have no other regions, and never doable afterwards, which is dumb).

Dragolord

2015-03-23, 11:51 AM

OrcusMcP

2015-03-23, 12:31 PM

I say that we go for Maximus. We've persuaded too many idiots into giving us power to let the AI mess it all up now. Also, I'm sensing roleplaying reasons for a devout Catholic to vassalise the Papacy, so let's hurry up and form Italia!

A worthy goal, to be sure, but I'm unlikely to just go a-conquering willy-nilly and blob up. There's still way too much game to play and I want it to stay interesting if I can.

If we are playing a strong kingdom with a warlike king/queen, then you can probably expect a bunch of war. If we're trying to consolidate a single kingdom, then you can expect a bunch of war. If the kingdom is reasonably whole and there's more interesting character stuff to do, then there won't be much war. I'm much more likely to create sister kingdoms than I am to blob up at this stage.

If I'm going to be going after any kind of empire at this stage, it'd be the HRE, but even that would be very character dependent. Dream big, it's the Roman way after all, but be patient.

Flickerdart

2015-03-23, 01:12 PM

If I'm going to be going after any kind of empire at this stage, it'd be the HRE, but even that would be very character dependent. Dream big, it's the Roman way after all, but be patient.
Not the ERE/restored Roman Empire?

OrcusMcP

2015-03-23, 01:33 PM

Not the ERE/restored Roman Empire?

If circumstances and character lean towards it, then sure, but I probably won't actively aim for it. At least, not now. I offered big wacky goals and craziness when we had Licinius the Beast and had there been no Jihad to smack us down the world would've been very different. Meanwhile, this is Maximus(I forgot to post his screen in the update):
http://imageshack.com/a/img912/2195/ruVfga.png
A diplomat like his mother, but his blunt honesty and foul temper may get him into tricky situations.

If I were to control both the kingdom of Italy and the ERE as they stand right now, I would be unstoppable and that would be boring and easy. By contrast, Germany is in anarchy and there is plenty of room to expand and instill some order while still having lots of threats to deal with in the meantime.

Dragolord

2015-03-23, 02:28 PM

How about we try to eliminate the Karlings, then? No, wait: We burn them down until there are no more of the sons of Charles left in positions of power, then we give them Vermandois.

OrcusMcP

2015-03-23, 02:41 PM

How about we try to eliminate the Karlings, then? No, wait: We burn them down until there are no more of the sons of Charles left in positions of power, then we give them Vermandois.

Heh, I like it. It'll be HARD, though.

To clarify my previous statement regarding empires and such, If we are going to restore the Roman Empire, I would rather it be a climactic moment at the end of the campaign than just the first step to owning the world.

Artanis

2015-03-23, 03:53 PM

I agree that we should transfer to Maximus.

And if we do go for an Empire, I think it should start with E.Italia. After all, taking the Boot and Sicily is the course that the original Roman Empire followed, and something as non-Holy and non-Roman as the HRE is not a fitting title for the Roman who restored the Pope to his seat. From there we can work on making the title live up to its history. Do note that I am fine with conquering stuff in the so-called Holy Roman Empire: stabbing Germans was one of the original Romans' common pasttimes, after all :smallwink:

Dragolord

2015-03-23, 04:22 PM

Artanis

2015-03-23, 04:58 PM

That and blindly trusting and wandering off into the dark Tetoburger forests with nice, definitely-not-acting Germans, along with your wives, children, and no guards.

That's because all the guards were busy chasing Germans into swamps :smalltongue:

Dragolord

2015-03-24, 11:24 AM

That's because all the guards were busy chasing Germans into swamps :smalltongue:

Well, they couldn't let them drown, could they? All of that chainmail and all those swords and axes and things can really drag a German down.

OrcusMcP

2015-03-25, 10:29 AM

State of the World: 925

ITALY
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Though Faroald the Second was King of Lombardy, he spent most of his days drunk and sobbing. His Queen, Octavia Gigas, had become the major figurehead of the Kingdom, while Faroald's council handled the administration. Maximus Gigas was soon to be crowned King, and though the more traditional Lombards sneered at the Roman boy and his mother as relics, Germanic power had not been particularly potent in the past centuries either.

CENTRAL EUROPE
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There was a time not long before when Bavaria seemed poised to dominate Germania, but internal conflict and external pressure have splintered the once mighty Kingdom. King Ludwig the Second was a powerful warrior, but without men to fight his wars the future seemed uncertain.

FRISIA
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King Clovis of Frisia, conversely, was a scholarly poet who was successfully conquering back lands along the Rhine for the Church. He fought off a vicious succession war for his crown, and then punished the Lollards at his borders for their heresy. Now, he was pressing against the Slavs in Franconia. Perhaps the dream of Charlemagne is not yet dead.

FRANCE
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Ebrigisel the Monk of France was an oddity. As the Karling family dwindled in influence and power, he was one of the first to join the Monastic Orders in their crusade, and though he now wore a crown and robe instead of a habit, the celibate lifestyle of the monastery followed him to the throne room. His prowess on the battlefield was undeniable, though, and if he could consolidate his power in Francia, he might reclaim Aquitaine from the Muslims.

HISPANIA
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http://imageshack.com/a/img661/2338/diJGFY.png
Though fraying at the edges and diminishing in prestige, the Umayyad empire is still powerful in its core in Iberia. Pressure from all directions may force them to stay there forever, though, with renewed Christian power in France, Frisia, Italy and North Africa.

NORTH AFRICA
http://imageshack.com/a/img538/2478/SFVmfU.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img908/1940/Az4fzY.png

"Let all ye know that this land was the land of Giants, and be ye warned that they will return."

THE CALIPHATE
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Look at that. Special maps have had to be made to show the entirety of Caliph Jalil's domain. From Tunis to Baluchistan, Cairo to Khiva, the top of the Caucasus to the tip of Arabia. The Caliph doth stride the world like a Colossus. And now, he is attempting again to invade Byzantium. This time it is likely he will succeed.

EAST AFRICA
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Europe is not the only place where heresies have taken root, with the Solomonid dynasty of Abyssinia have embraced Monophysitism. They continue to have trouble maintaining their grip on the tribal Nubians of the Nile, but their core lands remain strong.

BYZANTIUM
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http://imageshack.com/a/img540/1769/8fyAMz.png
Having secured the Balkans from the Slavs, the Empire is mighty. Eustratios the Hammer Is a legend in his own time, but much like the great Licinius Gigas he being brought low by his own body and mind. Disease and lunacy threaten to undo all the work he has done as the Caliph advances. Without assistance, Greece will fall to Islam.

HUNGARY
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http://imageshack.com/a/img913/2824/FjpFQl.png
Once a haven for the Avar Tengri, Pannonia is now a mighty Slavic nation under the unstable Rotislav. Only time will tell if the Carpathians will be enough to hold him back from conquering the Black Sea Tengri tribes.

KIEVAN RUS
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http://imageshack.com/a/img910/2496/kMoV3M.png
King Sviatopolk of Ruthenia is a man who takes his comfort for granted. The head of the Slavic Church answers to him, his lands are wealthy, his faith is one on the rise, he has many reasons to be comfortable. But Pannonia is on his doorstep, the Tengri to his east will not sit still for long, and though the Suomensko to his north are poor and disorganized, that could change in a heartbeat.

BALTIC KINGDOMS
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http://imageshack.com/a/img673/4093/L0amxh.pnghttp://imageshack.com/a/img538/613/aGAT99.png
The Baltic coast of Europe saw 4 powerful Kingdoms slowly settling their borders. The Slavic realms of Bohemia, Poland and Lithuania all competed to control the remaining tribal federations, while simultaneously consolidating their realms into feudal domains along New Slavic principles. Meanwhile, King Asig of Saxony was getting left behind. His borders had changed little to his west, but Norse authority was fading in the East as the Slavs spread.

SCANDINAVIA
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King Ofeig of Danmark may change that soon, though. Having seen the power that formalization and centralization brought to the Slavs, he hopes to unite the Norse and Germanic pagans into a new powerful force. The Norwegians people are already rejecting their own king in Ofeig's favour.

BRITISH ISLES
http://imageshack.com/a/img673/3870/NnfwJT.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img661/6053/mE5HOE.png
The Anglo-Saxon petty kings continue to squabble despite the Norse presence in Pictland, though the Waldensian movement may produce unity in some form or another soon. Meanwhile, King Maenyrch has united the Breton Welsh, but has done so under a banner of Catharism. This pot of religious tension in a small region will boil over soon.

http://imageshack.com/a/img910/1484/1Td1mC.png
It's rare to see India this fractured.

Dragolord

2015-03-25, 11:30 AM

Hmm. If Byzantium is falling, it might be a good time to start working on their Italian possessions soon. They must have some non-de jure holdings, surely? I'm not too familiar with Old Gods Italy.

OrcusMcP

2015-03-25, 11:39 AM

Hmm. If Byzantium is falling, it might be a good time to start working on their Italian possessions soon. They must have some non-de jure holdings, surely? I'm not too familiar with Old Gods Italy.

They have Sardinia, which we could de-jure claim, everything else is in Sicily.

Artanis

2015-03-25, 01:39 PM

Oh man, when that Dane dies, the explosion will be spectacular.

OrcusMcP

2015-03-25, 01:45 PM

Oh man, when that Dane dies, the explosion will be spectacular.

That's generally what's been happening with most of the pagan kingdoms, Denmark and Sweden especially. They get big, then implode on succession, get big and implode on succession. This is the biggest Denmark has gotten so far. I'm kinda hoping he reforms the Norse faith before he dies.

(If it looks like he will get close but fail, I may cheat to give him a chance.)

EDIT: This is why the Slavs are doing so well now, since reforming has let them have decent succession laws. Look back to the previous SotW and check out the messes.

Hydranova

2015-03-25, 01:58 PM

On the one hand, Frisia is an independent entity and seems to be a regional power. On the other hand, Karlings. I'm not sure how to feel about this....

Flickerdart

2015-03-25, 02:09 PM

On the one hand, Frisia is an independent entity and seems to be a regional power. On the other hand, Karlings. I'm not sure how to feel about this....
Eh, after Karling power in the Francias is broken, it doesn't really matter that they own some land somewhere, since you won't get any pointless internal wars/sudden inheritance blobs/brothers ganging up on you.

OrcusMcP

2015-03-30, 08:34 AM

Dragolord

2015-03-30, 02:19 PM

Next update will likely be a while in coming, as my podcast launched today and I am going to be out of town for a long weekend over Easter. Update will hopefully come before the 10th of April.

Early impressions: Not much expansion, lots of whack-a-mole.

What, no humorous April Fools "We inherited the Byzantine Empire and Ummayad Hispania at the same time!" update? (Ezi Hispania?)

OrcusMcP

2015-03-30, 02:24 PM

What, no humorous April Fools "We inherited the Byzantine Empire and Ummayad Hispania at the same time!" update? (Ezi Hispania?)

The Omen event struck and now paganism is the dominant faith in Sicily which we are now the undisputed emperor of. We conquered it with a doomstack of demons.

Cristo Meyers

2015-03-30, 02:44 PM

The Omen event struck and now paganism is the dominant faith in Sicily which we are now the undisputed emperor of. We conquered it with a doomstack of demons.

And you didn't make the Pope your own personal jester?

Shame on you :smalltongue:

Flickerdart

2015-03-30, 02:47 PM

Speaking of Jester, what is the point? Other than slowly sapping someone's Prestige, I mean.

Dragolord

2015-03-30, 03:05 PM

The Omen event struck and now paganism is the dominant faith in Sicily which we are now the undisputed emperor of. We conquered it with a doomstack of demons.

Speaking of Jester, what is the point? Other than slowly sapping someone's Prestige, I mean.

A. With SoA and a Pagan 99-Martial Sorceress-General, anything is possible.

B. More seriously, I use it to make vassals who already hate me go off the deep end so that I can crush them and steal their lands.

OrcusMcP

2015-03-30, 03:34 PM

B. More seriously, I use it to make vassals who already hate me go off the deep end so that I can crush them and steal their lands.

Yeah, this. When you need a legitimate straw to break someone's back, court jester is it.

One thing I hope for is the chance to give someone the coveted position of Court Dwarf.

Flickerdart

2015-03-30, 04:35 PM

I've had -100 relations guys seething without ever making a move, and guys who like me quite a bit declaring war on me because they were in a faction for whatever stupid reason. Does Court Jester have some behind the scenes "hate more than -100" property?

Artanis

2015-03-30, 05:09 PM

I'd guess that Court Jester is mostly just a holdover from before the faction system was implemented, when vassals might revolt simply because they hated you enough. Nowadays...I guess you could use it to push an extra vassal into a faction to tip it over the edge and into revolt. Or something. *shrug*

Back on topic, I will await the next update with as much patience as I do eagerness. Enjoy your vacation! :smallsmile:

Malimar

2015-04-01, 11:42 AM

OrcusMcP

2015-04-01, 12:26 PM

I usually assign the leaders of peasant/religious uprisings as Court Jester as punishment. Usually after blinding or castrating them and making them take monk vows. Those who dare to oppose me get all the most degrading punishments.

Interesting.....
[takes notes for future chapters]

Cristo Meyers

2015-04-01, 01:09 PM

Dragolord

2015-04-02, 09:29 AM

I usually made rebel leaders join a Holy Order. If they're so eager to pick a fight they know they can't win, they can at least do it against the heathen instead of me.

I always thought that you were meant to banish them and steal their money. Does making them join give you Piety or something?

Lord_Burch

2015-04-02, 09:34 AM

I always thought that you were meant to banish them and steal their money. Does making them join give you Piety or something?

That's adventurers you're thinking about, the ones with 500 gold, title claims and a year or two warning. Rebel leaders don't have anything worthwhile.

Sange

2015-04-03, 03:48 PM

I usually blind them, imprison them again, castrate them, make them Court Jester and then make them educate that-child-that's-seventeenth-in-line-for-inheritance.

OrcusMcP

2015-04-09, 01:22 PM

Chapter 14: "People should know when they're conquered." (925-933)

As we come towards the end of our discussion of the Turmoil period of Christianity in Europe, it is tempting to think of history, especially history related to Rome, as cyclical. Rome shifted from Kingdom, to Republic, to complex Imperial mess and back to a Kingdom again. Romans cultivated a deep reverence of their ancestors that bordered on worship, seeking to emulate the greatness of their elders. The Romans themselves were conquered and driven out of Italy, only to resurface in Africa and come to power on the Peninsula once again centuries later. Christianity may have been pushed back and doomed to heresy as the Muslims, Slavs and Norse pressed into the heart of Europe, but then exploded under the pressure to become more powerful than ever.

We see these events and our brains immediately assume they are a pattern. Maybe someday our modern world will look like antiquity again, science fiction certainly does love the aesthetics of the toga in space. Though, not so recently, history was seen less as a cycle than an sloping curve pressing onwards towards progress. Many now believe we are approaching a singularity point of such significance that nothing can be predicted about what might happen beyond it.

It is important to remember that history is neither a circle, nor a straight line, but a jumbled mess of string that we sometimes notice particular threads of. History only seems inevitable and circular and progressive because of hindsight, because of picking of those threads that we like or recognize. History is our story, and since we are forever resistant to categories, so too should our history. Sometimes many events will happen in what seems like a short span of time to us, reading about them, but felt like lifetimes to those living it.

With that out of the way, we turn now to the ascension of Maximus Gigas to the Italian throne. He finally married, before his father passed, to the most beautiful woman in all of Bavaria, so the story goes. Italy was powerful under the Lombards, and Maximus came to power with many talented men on his council with thousands of troops to command. The decentralization of the realm, however, meant that the King was little more than a figurehead, with the powerful dukes forever squabbling to take pieces off each other. Maximus would spend the next ten years re-organizing the ducal seats, much to the Dukes' frustrations, and also consolidating more land for the Crown in the Lombard region proper, eventually settling a new capital near Milan. He also sought to enrich and defend the many merchant centers of the coast, as they were forever in danger of Norse raids.

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In late 926, the King received word that the Abbasids had finished their invasion of Greece, and were now poised to strike deep into Europe proper. Better news came in the West, as the Ammarids continued to consolidate Terra Gigantea while the Franks still pressed against Umayyad power in Aquitaine. Some minor Orthodox rulers in Sicily managed to break free in the chaos of the Abbasid occupation of Greece, and Maximus sought to bring them under his protection. Maximus granted his brother-in-law, Theodoros, a mighty Nubian warrior, the duchy of Provence in return for pacifying the Muslims in the region, so as to keep at least one route into Italy safe.

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The Turmoil continued into 927 and 928, especially in the Mediterranean, where Catharism was still plaguing much of Southern Italy and causing major uprisings. Byzantium received a new threat in the form a Slavic Crusade for Bulgaria, but a new power block began to form, as Maximus' sister Palatina was betrothed to the heir of the Empire, forging an alliance. Italians were massing troops and holy knights by the end of the year in the Carpathians and were decisive in holding the line against the Slavs back while the Greeks pulled together their mighty but disparate forces to eventually push them back.

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Meanwhile, Maximus was also securing other family legacies. His son and heir, Marius, was born in 928, and his daughter Marcia in 930. Not long after the birth of Marina, a betrothal contract was drawn up between the Italian Gigas family and Ammarids of Terra Gigantea. Marcia would marry the heir to the African crown when they came of age, adding another powerful ally to the new Roman dynasty. Word also reached Maximus's ears that a distant cousin of his had been named Grandmaster of the Calatravan Knights, adding to the prestige that continued to grow around the family. Despite all the conflict and rebellion in the Mediterranean, though, business began to improve. Though he had yet to really expand the Kingdom properly, what Maximus brought to the peninsula instead was a measure of stability. While the nobility despised him, the townspeople loved him. Perhaps that cyclical conflict of the Populares and the Optimates was renewing as well.

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Deeper into Europe, the King of Bavaria had finally remembered he was a warrior and decided to invade the Umayyads for control of Savoy, calling Maximus into that conflict as well. The timing could not have been better, because while the Umayyads were still mighty, they were still trying to hold back the West Francian armies in Burgundy and their Badshah grew ever more decadent in his palace. Further on, heretics continued to rebel near the Rhine, while the feared unity of the Norse crumbled as the Danish King died leaving squabbling sons on various thrones.
(OOC: I cheated to give the Danish guy the required provinces in Norway and Sweden to reform, and he seemed ready to, but then he died. Cue messy borders)

http://imageshack.com/a/img903/4862/VhNvQZ.png
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The other major Muslim empire was not doing any better in 932, as the extremely powerful Caliph Jalil had outlived all his sons, but died before he could properly teach his grandson Abdul-Gafur, who upon succession was cloistered away by less than sterling councilors who sought to usurp power from the Caliph. However, this usurpation was seen as ungodly and unholy by many of the wider flung provinces in Khiva and Baluchistan, but also in many central and rich areas like Egypt and the newly conquered territories in Thrace.

http://imageshack.com/a/img540/2930/udLRMj.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img661/5972/nmDp2O.png
By late 933, the Turmoil seemed to be winding down, at least in the Mediterranean. Maximus, with his mother Octavia's assistance, had managed to mostly eradicate the Cathar presence in the Kingdom. When Octavia the Holy received word that all of Capua had finally declared their loyalty to the One True Church, she went to sleep and never woke. Happy to finally be reunited with her beloved Faroald. The Byzantines, despite their humiliating loss to the Arabs had at least managed to hold their Balkan mountains from the Slavs. The Muslim empires were beginning to feel the same pressure they had only ever before used against their enemies.

http://imageshack.com/a/img540/3189/KvX0cV.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img673/9779/taVtT4.png
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It was at this time that Maximus called together a major gathering of his Councillors, Dukes and Bishops on the island of Corsica. The island was chosen due to its minor status in the realm, avoiding any potential for betrayal on any side, since tensions were still high. The Council of Corsica, as it has become known, set the stage for the end of the Turmoil and has been studied by all serious students of history, but because of the secrecy of the council very little was actually written of the debates. We only know what was presented in dry ink weeks later. What stories could be told of the days on the island, I wonder. What stories indeed......

*********
Quick OOC info dump: Currently at low CA, completely decentralized, Gavelkind. Capital is now Lombardy county, but I feel that needs a rename. Feel free to offer suggestions.
Remember that at heart, Maximus is a Diplomat and a scholar. He, meaning "I", will likely debate you on any objectionable points.
*********

"We have not always seen eye to eye, many of you are angry at my redistricting of your provinces, while others are angry at my lack of clemency towards your rebellious factions, perhaps many of you are simply angry at me because I am Roman.

I am here to tell you that there are larger threats. Our faith has been under attack for years. There are enemies both beyond and within our borders. Heresy is no laughing matter. Islam is no laughing matter. We must find a way to secure our realm and end the Turmoil that has beset the Church. What does the council suggest?"

-The powerful Duke of Tuscany rose first, speaking as diplomatically as he could: "Majesty, it is true that your ways seem strange to us, but you are correct that Islam is no laughing matter. If you wish our support, then we must show solidarity with our Germanic and Frankish cousins and remove the Muslim presence in Aquitaine. Once securely in the hands of the faithful, you will have my support to strengthen the crown."

-The Lord Mayor of Genoa spoke next, almost spitting his words: "Germanic solidarity, bah! The Muslims will fall on their own, we see it happening already! Why should we tether ourselves to a dying, broken land any further than we already are? For that matter, why tether ourselves to a relic of an Empire? Let us finally liberate Sicily and Venice from the clutches of the Greeks! Heresy takes root because of lack of opportunity, let us become the trade center of the world as we were in ancient times, so that none may be tempted!"

-Finally, the Bishop of Milan spoke up: "Do not be so quick to abandon our brothers, my Lord Mayor, and they will not be so quick to abandon you. We must not abandon the brothers of our faith, either. We have plucked the weeds of heresy from our lands, but I hear tell that in the islands of Brittania they have flowered! Crush them, root out the heretics, and the True Church will bless the house of Gigas from now until the end of days."

Who did the council support?

Cristo Meyers

2015-04-09, 02:50 PM

The invasion of the Muslim is a pain that your departed mother knew all to well in her life. In our lifetimes we have seen them crash like a wave upon our shores again and again, eating away at our homes, our kingdoms, and our very faith.

But now... now they are divided. Now we have shown that they can be beaten: our great Crusade in Francia and news reaches us that their jihad against Gigantea has been repelled. Now is the time to press them like they have pressed us.

Our allies are arrayed, morale is high, say the word and we march to Aquitane, to Greece, even to Moorish Spain beyond.

Artanis

2015-04-09, 03:49 PM

The Mayor of Genoa is a fool. The entire reason the Muslims got so strong in the first place is because the followers of Christ squabbled while Muslims smashed our brothers' citadels nigh-unopposed. Terra Gigantea, a bastion of the true faith if there ever was one, was inundated by the Crescent tides because the Gigas family's allies chose dishonor and petty ambition over their blood-sworn alliances. The Genoese proposal is the very sort of thing that brought Christendom to the brink of extinction in the first place, and it would be true madness to squander the chance that the Lord has given us to finally push back and spread His word as He commanded.

The Bishop of Milan has his heart in the right place, but I fear that while his zeal is commendable, an invasion of Britannia is not yet feasible. With Muslims on our very borders, a drawn-out conflict over the heresy in such distant lands would leave us open to the enemies that lie far closer. Islam still holds much of the wealth and might of Aquitaine in its thrall, and the faithful in Brendesion can practically see the heathen fleets that lie in wait across the Adriatic, moored in harbors that the enemy only holds because the Byzantines were left to fight alone by those like the Mayor of Genoa.

No, I say that of those assembled here, the Duke of Tuscany speaks most true. For many generations, Islam has been the greatest threat to Europe and Christendom. It has been weak and vulnerable before, but there has never been a push to take advantage of the Muslims' divisions, and so they have grown ever stronger. Rebellions once rocked Iberia, and yet the Muslims still hold Aquitaine. Heresy once weakened the Caliph, and yet mosques are now being raised in Athens. How many times must the Lord give us the opportunity to take back the souls of our oppressed brethren before we finally act? Aquitaine now stands surrounded by the followers of Christ, ready to be liberated and made into an example from which all of Christendom can take heart as we strike ever-stronger against the shadow which seeks to engulf the world!

Malistrae

2015-04-10, 11:56 AM

I concur with my fellow advisors that following the Mayor of Genoa's advice is a sure way towards disaster. Such a revolting betrayal would possibly weaken Christendom in an irreversible manner. The short-term gains to our kingdom are undermined by the collapse of Christianity this action would lead to.
The Bishop of Milan's opinion is unfeasible and ignorant. Starting holy wars against heretics on the other side of Europe is a fool's errand, and will critically weaken our own kingdom against the opportunistic muslims. Material concerns must take precedence over spiritual ones, if we wish to mantain the kingdom's power.
The wisest one is undoubtably the Duke of Tuscany. The muslim presence in Aquitaine is the spearhead they use to further spread their faith and rule into the heartlands of Europe. They must be eradicated before they become too entrenched. Such a campaign would also reap a great amount of prestige for our noble king, lending him the power and majesty necessary to expand his authority.

Dragolord

2015-04-12, 05:01 AM

I agree with those above, albeit less floridly. We fled our homeland to escape the Muslims, yet now we find d that they are here as well? We must follow Il Duca's plan and destroy the Ummayads!

OrcusMcP

2015-04-13, 01:36 PM

Maximus at first seemed taken aback by the force and verve of the council. The Lombards had not shown such enthusiasm against Islam before, perhaps the Roman way truly was beginning to return. After an hour of yelling and debate, he stood and motioned for the floor.

"Very well, the lords of the realm have spoken and we will wage such terrible war against the Umayyad Empire that all will tremble at its coming. The crown will need substantial powers to win this war, and as such I will tolerate no treason or resistance to my flexing of those powers. I am a Gigas, a Giant, and I will not allow myself to simply be a weapon wielded by overzealous dukes.

My the Lord God have mercy on all our souls for the lives we will be taking, and may there always be room for Giants in the Kingdom of God."

OrcusMcP

2015-04-21, 09:02 AM

Apologies for the delay, had to actually completely replay this update(long story) and still not quite done. Update should come by early next week. In the meantime, still awaiting a New Name for the county of Lombardy/Milan

Flickerdart

2015-04-21, 09:13 AM

I recommend that the kingdom be named, in honour of our nation's African origins, Madiq. In order to incentivize name suggestions, of course.

Cristo Meyers

2015-04-21, 09:15 AM

The only thing I can come up with would be something like Gigantea Minor. And even I'm not sure I like the ring of that...

OrcusMcP

2015-04-21, 09:22 AM

To be clear, I'm not renaming the country, but the COUNTY of Lombardy. The Kingdom is Italy.

Cristo Meyers

2015-04-21, 10:00 AM

To be clear, I'm not renaming the country, but the COUNTY of Lombardy. The Kingdom is Italy.

That actually warms me up to my first suggestion a little.

Although, we could go the 'act of hubris' route and re-name it St. Octavia or somesuch.

OrcusMcP

2015-04-27, 11:01 AM

Chapter 15: A Very Human Rampage (933-942)

Power Metal can be described many was, but one thing it is not described as is subtle. Even among the more cerebrally minded bands that write songs about slaying dragons and rampaging hordes you get historical epics that sounds like something out of the Iliad. Hell, even Christopher Lee unashamedly wrote a power metal album about Charlemagne, even though he never really got up to much.

Sometimes, though, a little subtlety sneaks in through the power, and that's the case with the DragonForce album Inhuman Rampage, especially the song The Flame of Youth. I will argue that the song is about the early nationalism and cultural melting that came about during King Maximus's Aquitaine Crusades in the 10th century.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqLzQhNSDBQ
"Close your eyes hear the thunder and rain/Fear inside of the torturing pain/For the cries of the world and the last lives remain/
Chain your heart swear to die for their gain/Deep inside slowly fading away/And the last breath remains and the fear turns to rage"

We start off with a translation of an old Lombard soldier's chant, used to steel themselves before a battle. In 933, King Maximus was still assisting the Bavarians in their fight for Savoy against the Umayyad empire, and while Maximus's favourite son Justin was born at this time and prosperity was spreading in Northern Italy, many soldiers were off dying in the alps to wrest control of the area from the Muslims.

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"Locked in a world by the fallen evil souls/Torn right apart for your life insane/Burning in my mind now to bring my life to hold/Reach out and die in the flames/
See through the lies and their ever staring eyes/Now is the time to defend your ground/Destiny will call to remind us all now/
Fly free so far from here/This life we know will end/In dreams of everlasting pain/The fallen now rise again"

As the Cathar crisis died down in Southern Italy, most prominent Cathar men were pressed into service in the King's armies. It was only their numbers that allowed the Italians to have the numbers necessary to press forward. These lines describes the general feeling a Cathar might have at the time, of not just being cursed to the world of flesh by the "fallen evil souls" of the Demiurge but of also being cursed to recant and fight on behalf of their inquisitors.

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"So free your heart leave your life far behind/
In the cold of winter skies escape the pain inside/
Now feel your soul lost in seas of all eternity/
Everyday this life, defending and the flames of youth not ending/
In a lifetime, searching, we must fight through the eternal pain"

The Savoy and Aquitaine Crusades are famous for their cold and their mud, and many soldiers suffered both in the lengthy sieges along the alps and in the marshes and fields. It is not surprising that DragonForce would want to highlight that despair.

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Savoy was finally liberated in 935 after over 6 years of fighting and occupation, but the Dukes of Italy called for Maximus to immediately press further into Muslim territory. 6 more years of conquest in the cold and the mud followed for the soldiers. The next lines highlight their isolation, but also hints at the growing comraderie between the Roman soldiers of the King, the disillusioned Cathars of the south and Lombard levies of the dukes.

"So alone in the world far away/memories of a dream will remain/As the world's falling cold and our lives all in vain/
Fire in my soul will forever rise again/Nothing in my mind to remember now/Broken by the fear of the dark night calling/
Ride free on endless seas/The final curtain falls/Cut the ground from down below/The time to lock and to load"

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Finally, as the armies clashed in Aquitaine, the Italians managed to push back Muslim expansion singlehandedly, the first Catholics to do so since the early Karling period. The next lines exhort the bravery of the soldiers, and the bridge before the solos echo Arabic musical themes to place you in their world before dissonant keyboard chords break the flow much as the invading armies did.

"Through the fire, through the rain/far across the distant plains/
Feel the wind beneath the steel/as your mind becomes insane/
Save the pain from all humanity/their rides trough our destiny/For freedom now we rise for all again"

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Further Crusades followed, but treasure, manpower and will were decaying in 942. King Maximus had placed his young first son Marius in charge of the region, Christianity was settling back from the Turmoil and the Muslim empires were beginning to crack from the decadence of their ruling dynasties.

And in the rich areas of Northern Italy, a Roman renaissance mixed with Cathar fervor and Lombard martial thirst to start a new national identity. The subjects of the Kingdom of Italy had begun to think of themselves as proper Italians.

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It's for this reason that the song ends with what has become the motto for the modern Italian military:
"We fight through the eternal pain"

IthilanorStPete

2015-04-27, 12:52 PM

Best. Update. Ever.

Cristo Meyers

2015-04-27, 01:20 PM

Best. Update. Ever.

Indeed. This is the best one since the 'school report' in the succession game. :smallbiggrin:

Artanis

2015-04-27, 08:47 PM

Best. Update. Ever.

This. So very much this.

mythmonster2

2015-04-27, 11:12 PM

Man, how do you come up with this stuff, Orcus? A great update here.

OrcusMcP

2015-04-28, 06:40 AM

D'awww, thanks guys. :smallbiggrin:

Dragolord

2015-05-04, 07:14 AM

Looks like somebody did a creative English course once! Seriously, this is insane! Also brilliant, though, so...

OrcusMcP

2015-05-05, 08:51 AM

Looks like somebody did a creative English course once! Seriously, this is insane! Also brilliant, though, so...

Oddly enough, no create writing courses. Vast majority of what I know of writing/story-telling is iterated from lots of reading/theatre/role-playing. I do love story-telling, though.

Any other genres/styles people are interested in seeing in the LP?

Cristo Meyers

2015-05-05, 10:06 AM

Oddly enough, no create writing courses. Vast majority of what I know of writing/story-telling is iterated from lots of reading/theatre/role-playing. I do love story-telling, though.

It shows.

Any other genres/styles people are interested in seeing in the LP?

I'm of the opinion that it ain't broke, so don't fix it. The 'research documents' style that you've got going is great, reminds me of papers I used to do in college (5 papers of critical analysis of Silent Hill, none got less than a B).

OrcusMcP

2015-05-05, 11:46 AM

It shows.

I can't tell if that's a sly dig or a impressed kudos.
Maybe it's both. :smallwink:

Cristo Meyers

2015-05-05, 12:00 PM

I can't tell if that's a sly dig or a impressed kudos.
Maybe it's both. :smallwink:

I'm not that sarcastic. :smalltongue:

There's a sincerity to your writing here that I honestly don't think someone can fake (and believe me, I've tried). It's a good thing.

Artanis

2015-05-05, 12:11 PM

*conversation about the writing style*
Honestly, one of the things I love is how it pokes fun at the people who write that sort of deconstruction seriously. To somebody who once got so frustrated with an English teacher that he wrote an essay disproving the existence of symbolism, using such peoples' own tone of voice to do a tongue-in-cheek deconstruction of how a power metal song is actually an emotional recollection of the trials faced by homesick warriors fighting bravely in the name of their faith is the best thing ever :smallbiggrin:

Cristo Meyers

2015-05-05, 01:21 PM

Honestly, one of the things I love is how it pokes fun at the people who write that sort of deconstruction seriously. To somebody who once got so frustrated with an English teacher that he wrote an essay disproving the existence of symbolism, using such peoples' own tone of voice to do a tongue-in-cheek deconstruction of how a power metal song is actually an emotional recollection of the trials faced by homesick warriors fighting bravely in the name of their faith is the best thing ever :smallbiggrin:

Heck, to someone that has a BA in English it's pretty much the best thing ever. :smallbiggrin:

There were more than a few folks in my years in college that needed to be reminded to not take their interpretations and deconstructions so seriously. The point is the exercise, not the conclusions.

IthilanorStPete

2015-05-05, 01:38 PM

The history book style is good, though I also like epistolary updates, particularly when we get letters from multiple people writing back and forth.

OrcusMcP

2015-05-06, 10:46 AM

Chapter 16: The Justinian Papers (Volume 1) (943-953)

Excerpts from the collected writings and diaries of Justin Gigas, King of all Italians.

"I remember, as I neared my 11th birthday, having a dinner with my father, the King, where I sought to learn as much as possible about the realm I was to inherit. Many legends were spun about his conversions of the Cathars and the crusades in Aquitaine, but I was never one to succumb to mere legend. I needed to know about the pragmatic realities. The careful balancing of carrots and sticks against the Dukes, knowing when an enemy is weak enough to invade, keeping the traders content and prosperous enough that they are happy to pay their taxes.

"It was during that talk that two message came, one from the west and one from the east. In the west, my brother Marius had reached his majority and was fulfilling his duties in Toulouse. He re-affirmed his loyalty and fealty and was eager to retake more of Aquitaine from the Umayyads. The news from the east was much sadder. Civil unrest had ravaged the old Empire, and my father's devoted sister, the Empress Palatina had been dragged from her summer home by rabble and butchered in the streets."

"I think my father broke that day, for he never smiled again until his death 2 years later."

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"Despite my clear brilliance and ambition, I was still considered too young and unfit until my majority and so a moronic regency occurred where nothing if import happened. I spent my time with my cousin Petronella in Provence. It is a sad, sad thing that the Dukes will not allow women to command armies, because it was her guidance that taught me all I know of war.

"There were times I would sneak into the regency council to hear news of the realm, and I was most intrigued to hear of the Islamic empires and their descent into decadence. Though held by the Lombard Dukes as mortal enemies, my father always pitied them. My family's Roman heritage taught us that it is only natural for mighty empires to be brought low. To take pride in such a fall is to invite it upon yourself.

"The Dukes saved their real ire for the new cultural mix that was continuing in the countryside. The Italians were thinking of themselves as Italians again, and Lombard culture was dying. I thought long and deep about what this meant for my own Roman upbringing."

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"I assumed the throne in the Year of Our Lord, 949, an immediately set about reforming the Kingdom. I embraced the culture of the people and declared myself King of All Italy. The mix of Latin and German that came to be known as Italian was made the official language of the court. I divorced myself from my Roman roots by returning Latium proper to the Papal States. To placate the Dukes, I took as my wife the most beautiful and noble of the Lombard daughters, my darling Altruda. I was to be like a Warrior King of the old legends."

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"Like my father before me I invaded Umayyad Aquitaine, who were distracted by a bogged down conflict with the Karling Franks in their north, and a Dynastic struggle in their capital. My uncle, Carus, had become the Hochmeister of the Teutonic Order and pledged several thousand soldiers and knights to our cause as well.

"The first years of the conflict went much as my father's had, and in my overconfidence I order several legions to return home, lest our coffers run dry. Sadly, the Umayyads took this as a sign of weakness and launched an offensive that pushed us back nearly to the Alps. Only my clever tactics of bleeding the Muslims as we retreated and fresh mercenaries to reinforce our last stand allowed our victory to hold. Never again would I let pride distract me from my goal."

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"The Sultan surrendered in 953 and the majority of the Aquitaine region was mine. There were still outposts of Muslim power in central Gaul, but I called for a celebration instead. I declared myself the King of Aquitaine as a subordinate crown to the Italians, and sent out a call for all able-bodied knights to show their valor in a display of martial glory."

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"It was in the middle of the tournament that the Papal Bull arrived. There was to be a formally endorsed crusade against the Muslims once more, this time against the Abbasids in the East. Greece was to be liberated.

"The mood of tournament turned after the Bull was read aloud, though I ordered the festivities to continue. Days were spent watching the best of Italy show their mettle, while at nights copious amounts of wine were drank in my council halls as the Dukes and I determined the best course of action. All agreed further war was in the close horizon, the only question was where.

"If we Joined the Crusade, as my father had done in his youth, it would help our standing in the wider world of Christendom, perhaps even allowing us a chance at Papal boons, or even Greece herself. Many of the Dukes worried about our territory in the West, however, and feared that if we sent all our men East we could not Hold our Ground should the Umayyads seek revenge, nor capitalize on our crushing of Aquitaine to reclaim the entire region.

"All awaited my ultimate decision, but I would not give it until the end of the tournament so as not to spoil the mood nor distract the fighters.

"Italy would show her glory once more."

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Cristo Meyers

2015-05-06, 11:29 AM

Italy led by example in Aquitane and it should do so again. She has been summoned, and she should respond. Join the Crusade

Dragolord

2015-05-06, 01:27 PM

Cristo Meyers

2015-05-06, 01:30 PM

Lord_Burch

2015-05-06, 01:42 PM

Artanis

2015-05-06, 01:43 PM

I say we Join the Crusade. Christendom is finally uniting against the heathens, and with the Muslims divided and collapsing, it is time to press our advantage. And if nothing else, Greece is nearby, so if worse comes to worst, we will be able to return home in short order.

The target lands are awarded to the person that contributed most to the Crusade itself. How exactly CK2 calculates that I have no idea.

So if we get in there, wreck face, and not get wrecked in return then we stand a good chance of being awarded Greece.
It comes from battles and sieges. I've actually had a lot of success in the past by just wandering around sieging stuff and occasionally swatting tiny stacks while heavier hitters do all the dying, but considering that we undoubtedly are one of said heavy hitters this time, we may not be able to win without us doing a lot of fighting ourselves.

Also, if you're going to join, it's a good idea to join immediately so that you get first dibs on the holy orders :smallwink:

OrcusMcP

2015-05-06, 01:45 PM

The Caliph is decadent, his armies weak, his lands ripe for the taking. We must join the Crusade for Greece! In Italy, we are well-placed to arrive before any others, and perhaps win the war before any others arrive! One point of clarification, however: is the Crusade to install a new king, or can we claim the lands ourselves?

There currently is no King of Greece, it is owned wholly by the Caliphate. Thus, it would be like your standard crusade for Jerusalem where the title would be created and given to the member of the crusade with the most investment.

EDIT:

It comes from battles and sieges. I've actually had a lot of success in the past by just wandering around sieging stuff and occasionally swatting tiny stacks while heavier hitters do all the dying, but considering that we undoubtedly are one of said heavy hitters this time, we may not be able to win without us doing a lot of fighting ourselves.
You get more "involvement" points for fighting and dying, but the war won't progress without someone doing the occupation. If you do both, you're pretty much guaranteed to get the title.

Also, if you're going to join, it's a good idea to join immediately so that you get first dibs on the holy orders :smallwink:
That used to be true, but now the holy orders join up independently and fight on their own. I see the Templars and Hospitalers win crusades more often than I see Kings do anymore. The crusade for France earlier in our narrative was only barely won by the Karlings, the Teutonic Order was a very, very close second. If they had won, the story might have been very different.

Dragolord

2015-05-06, 01:49 PM

There currently is no King of Greece, it is owned wholly by the Caliphate. Thus, it would be like your standard crusade for Jerusalem where the title would be created and given to the member of the crusade with the most investment.

Ah. Never mind then. Let's go and righteously smite Abbasids until we run out! We might even get a Decadence Revolt if we're lucky!

Flickerdart

2015-05-06, 03:12 PM

You get more "involvement" points for fighting and dying, but the war won't progress without someone doing the occupation. If you do both, you're pretty much guaranteed to get the title.
This is, incidentally, hilariously exploitable - since you can decide to just stop sieging and focus on chasing down enemy armies, you can stop warscore progression pretty much dead until you've got enough crusade contribution to guarantee receiving the title.

OrcusMcP

2015-05-13, 11:04 AM

Chapter 17: The Justinian Papers (Volume 2) (954-957)

More excerpts from the collected writings of Justin Gigas, King of all Italians. This short volume contains letters and diaries collated from the Greek Crusade of 952-957.

"My dearest Altruda, it seems only yesterday that we were cheering Count Thrasimon as he won the Great Tournament. Truly he was a marvel on horseback, a true testament to the Lombard tradition and the future that lay in Italy. I think of how beautiful you looked beside me, of how proud we both were to live in such times. I think often of our love and our home in Milan while I lead our troops in Greece. It gives me comfort in the long nights of the siege and in the cold mornings of my tent."

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"Darling Altruda, we are winning. Achaia is ours and we press further into Greece. The Holy Father is tied down in Macedonia, while most of the new Crusaders join with me in the south. Already it seems that the momentum of the war is not even on our side, but my side. My fellow Crusaders see me not unlike the return of the great warrior King David, while the Greeks we liberate sing songs as if I was Hercules himself. I think back to the Triumphs of old, where a slave would be beside the great general, reminding him of his mortality. "Memento Mori".

I am not afraid of the Glory that comes with leading men to victory, but I do worry for the sanctity of my soul that I grow too hard and callous. I entreat you to sail and meet me in Greece. Let us both remember that we are mortal in the midst of this war."

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"The Lord is surely on our side, most Holy Father, for the reports I have received from the new arrivals as well as my brother-in-law the Amarrid Sultan suggest that the Caliph is being assaulted on all sides. The Serbs have taken Dyracchion, Byzantium assaults Trebizond, a Berber tribe has revolted against Abbasid decadence and apparently further into Asia warrior has declared himself the Sultan of Khiva and seeks to carve his own realm out of the Caliphate. It cannot be long before Abdul-Gafur submits to the will of The Lord."

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"My dearest Altruda, we are victorious! Praise to the Lord, the Crusade was a success! But even this glory pales beside the knowledge that we have a healthy baby boy. My heart swells to know that I have a son."

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"My fellow Crusaders cheer and praise God Almighty all day and night. There are many calling on me to take up the crown and become King of Greece, but I am conflicted.

In my studies of the campaigns of Alexander, and in reading of the histories of the emperors, these great generals and rulers of men accomplished much, but they could never achieve lasting peace. It is customary in our pious times to blame the sinfulness and greed of these men, of their reach exceeding their grasp, but I feel it goes deeper than that. It was not devotion to Dispater that caused the downfall of Rome, but devotion to Terminus. When enslaved by the God of Borders, Rome was forced to act like a tumour, ever expanding and never constricting. Would it not be far better to be as their great marble statues? Perfect in their elegance and completeness, no piece out of place?

Wars can and must be fought for holy causes and glory can be found in Christian conquest, but we cannot be slaves to the God of borders any more now that we are servants of the Most High. My realm even now grows unwieldy. How much larger must it be before it collapses like the Colossus of old?"

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"I have thus determined that I must reorganize my realm into something more compact. I have received varied treaties seeking my favour in the wake of our victory, and three stand out towards my aims. This decision weighs heavy on my mind, as well it should be. I pray to The Lord to show me guidance, and to show mercy to all His children that might suffer from my decision."

Copies of the three treaties were saved in King Justin's diaries and have survived along with his other writings, so we present them now. They all begin with the following honourific, so we will omit them to save space. "To His Grace, King Justin Gigas of Italy, Greece and Aquitaine......."

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Congratulations upon your victory, it is heartening to see our brother Christians prevail against the Caliph, especially as we wage our own war against them. I know your family hails back to the old times of Rome, and I'm sure there will be many who call upon you to declare Renovatio Imperii, but I will politely remind you that I am still Emperor of Rome. If you will return Greece to Byzantium, then I will donate my lands in Sicilia and Sardinia to you, so that you might rule over an Italia Irredenta.
Think on it.
-Basileus Isidoros Isauros

Praise be to God, for He has brought you glory! Your mighty victory over the infidel has bolstered confidence across all of Christendom, but there is still much to do! Byzantium has proven unable to withstand the onslaught of Islam, but your victories against both the Abbasid and Umayyad Empires prove you are truly a Giant. This inspiration must continue, however, and to assist you in this matter, I propose a partnership. I will name your realm the Sacrum Romanum Imperium! The Papacy will take control of your Southern Italian holdings, you may reign from Constantinople, and you will be Imperator.
Think on it.
-His Holiness Hyginus II

This is truly a day to be remembered throughout all of Christendom, and your name will sounds through all time as a great warrior and hero. Though you and I never fought side by side, we bled none the less in Macedonia. Thought the Caliphate is weakening, it is still the mightiest empire seen in a thousand years. Greece is a land of wealth and history, but it is also a crossroads between Islam and Christ. Crossroads need guards. Donate Greece to the Holy Orders, that we Crusader Kings might defend the pilgrimages, safeguard the holy and fortify Europe, and we will present you with a gift of 5000 gold ducats, donations from the most pious nobles in all the land.
Think on it.
-Grandmaster Martin, Knights of the Hospital