Is animate dead any good?

[RoboEmperor]

I noticed that this spell scales as you level up, you have permanent control over your undead, your undead lasts forever, and almost every living thing can be turned into a skeleton or zombie. It's like a very cheap way to have yourself a small band of permanent meat shields (strongest skeleton is 20d12, and only costs 500gp!).

But then I noticed they have horrible AC, but very high HP, so like... are they worthless compared to summon monster IV? But then at high levels you could use this level 4 (or 3 if you're divine) spell to get a 20hd monster of some kind.

edit: Also, is there a way to repair bones? If your skeleton dies, it's a guarantee the corpse is no longer intact, so if you can somehow repair the bones you could raise it again so you only need to go hunting for a good corpse once.

[Blackhawk748]

I noticed that this spell scales as you level up, you have permanent control over your undead, your undead lasts forever, and almost every living thing can be turned into a skeleton or zombie. It's like a very cheap way to have yourself a small band of permanent meat shields (strongest skeleton is 20d12, and only costs 500gp!).

But then I noticed they have horrible AC, but very high HP, so like... are they worthless compared to summon monster IV? But then at high levels you could use this level 4 (or 3 if you're divine) spell to get a several 20hd monsters of some kind.

Fixed that for you. You cant really compare the two spells as Summon Monster V is primarily used for the utility and other sexy bonuses that the monsters give you. Animate Dead gives you a wall of HP. Pretty much it. Though it is flippin awesome at that and is a spell i use a lot.

[OldTrees1]

At some point a 20HD Skeleton stops being a weapon and starts being cover. That is when you shift to Animate Dread Warrior or some other way of getting undead with class levels.

[Dalebert]

But then I noticed they have horrible AC

You can give them armor and weapons. *shrug*

[Extra Anchovies]

Animate Dead has nice out-of-combat utility - flying mounts, stronghold guards that don't need food, pay, or any other upkeep, porters, etc.

[TheCrowing1432]

I point you to the DN handbook.

http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1096381

Even if you arent going dread necromancer it tells you how to do minionmancy good, beyond animate dead.

[RoboEmperor]

You can give them armor and weapons. *shrug*

I thought about that too but the skeletons lose all feats and gain improved initiative. That means if you give them any armor with armor check penalties, their already craptacular BAB will become even more craptacular :P

I guess It wouldn't hurt to buff them with mage armor and stuff XD


Animate Dead has nice out-of-combat utility - flying mounts, stronghold guards that don't need food, pay, or any other upkeep, porters, etc.

Zombie flying mounts... blehhh XD. Imagine if you are on the back of some ugly rotting disgusting disease infested soggy squishy thing all day. If only skeletons could fly >.<. Anyone know of a magically flying creature that can still fly if turned into a skeleton?


I point you to the DN handbook.

http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1096381

Even if you arent going dread necromancer it tells you how to do minionmancy good, beyond animate dead.

It has some interesting tips, specifically mass of skeletal archers. Thanks for showing me the handbook.

[Zanos]

I thought about that too but the skeletons lose all feats and gain improved initiative. That means if you give them any armor with armor check penalties, their already craptacular BAB will become even more craptacular :P


Proficient with its natural weapons, all simple weapons, and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Undead not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Undead are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
Equip your undead with Fullplate, and describe it as wearing it. Mention it's greatsword in it's entry; it's now proficient. Yay! This isn't even technically wrong, Human Warrior Skeletons have steel heavy shields and scimitars and aren't taking non-proficiency penalties.

[Extra Anchovies]

Zombie flying mounts... blehhh XD. Imagine if you are on the back of some ugly rotting disgusting disease infested soggy squishy thing all day. If only skeletons could fly >.<. Anyone know of a magically flying creature that can still fly if turned into a skeleton?

Create Undead can make a bone creature (it's a template from... dragon magazine, I think), and flying creatures given that template gain (Su) flight. Lets you have proper skeletal dragons, especially since they retain their intelligence scores.

[RoboEmperor]

Create Undead can make a bone creature (it's a template from... dragon magazine, I think), and flying creatures given that template gain (Su) flight. Lets you have proper skeletal dragons, especially since they retain their intelligence scores.

Doesn't create undead require you to find some way of controlling undead? :\
Only way I know of is making an armor of undead controlling because the spell control undead is 1min/casterlevel while the armor is 26hd for 24hours once a day. I made a thread on that topic on this forum but not a single reply :(


Equip your undead with Fullplate, and describe it as wearing it. Mention it's greatsword in it's entry; it's now proficient. Yay! This isn't even technically wrong, Human Warrior Skeletons have steel heavy shields and scimitars and aren't taking non-proficiency penalties.

Yeah I don't really understand this fully (fluff wise anyways) XD. Thanks for pointing me to the types and subtypes page.

I'm planning on getting animate dead on my mailman sorcerer at level 8, and using my level 4 slots with fireballs in combat as fireballs > orb of fire until level 11.

[Zanos]

Command Undead is 1 day per caster level, out of a second level slot. Non-intelligent undead get no save to boot.

I personally find it a bit risky; using command undead on powerful undead may tempt your DM into dropping some area dispels. Invest in a ring of enduring arcana at some point if you want to go that route. 6k, raises the dispel DC for all of your spells by 4. Solid item for any caster, really.

[Venger]

Create Undead can make a bone creature (it's a template from... dragon magazine, I think), and flying creatures given that template gain (Su) flight. Lets you have proper skeletal dragons, especially since they retain their intelligence scores.

bone and corpse creature are from bovd, not dragon magazine.

zombie and skeleton dragons are a third, unrelated group of templates statted up in draconomicon.

[Extra Anchovies]

edit: Also, is there a way to repair bones? If your skeleton dies, it's a guarantee the corpse is no longer intact, so if you can somehow repair the bones you could raise it again so you only need to go hunting for a good corpse once.

Of note is the fact that regardless of the body's condition, you can't animate a body twice.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Of note is the fact that regardless of the body's condition, you can't animate a body twice.

Specifically, Undead, regardless of what kind it is, are Destroyed and cannot be re-Undeaded. Its not exactly clear what Destroyed means fluff wise (I've always seen it be done as dusting similar to Disintegrate except more chunky).

[Zanos]

Technically you can cast Revive Undead on a destroyed undead, but it's 6th level and probably not worth the 5k material component unless you had a very excellent undead.

[RoboEmperor]

Alright, thanks everyone! I'll generally use the spell as a disposable wall of HP, and early game I'll use the skeletons as an additional source of damage along with haste so I can help my party defeat encounters without expending too many spells.

Maybe, just maybe, at higher levels I'll just reanimate high HD monsters for XP. I'll order them to kill our party and voila, lots of bonus XP the DM didn't plan on XD

[Gemini476]

You could also cast Raise Dead or similar on destroyed undead, and follow it up with some standard issue murderstabbing before casting Animate Dead again.

If you have two effects that would automatically apply such things, you get critters stuck in some kind of twisted circle of undead reincarnation. Such as having both Atropus and Ragnorra assaulting your campaign setting, for instance - any killed creatures rise as undead a round later, and any destroyed undead get raised as an aberration. Things get weird when you start combining things that weren't meant to be combined.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Alright, thanks everyone! I'll generally use the spell as a disposable wall of HP, and early game I'll use the skeletons as an additional source of damage along with haste so I can help my party defeat encounters without expending too many spells.

Maybe, just maybe, at higher levels I'll just reanimate high HD monsters for XP. I'll order them to kill our party and voila, lots of bonus XP the DM didn't plan on XD

The bolded part, in my experience, doesn't tend to go well in practice. It usually results in butt-hurting either for the DM or the players in the long run. And then starts a cycle of butt-hurting.

[Extra Anchovies]

Technically you can cast Revive Undead on a destroyed undead, but it's 6th level and probably not worth the 5k material component unless you had a very excellent undead.

Worth getting as an SLA via an Archmage dip, though.

[daremetoidareyo]

Alright, thanks everyone! I'll generally use the spell as a disposable wall of HP, and early game I'll use the skeletons as an additional source of damage along with haste so I can help my party defeat encounters without expending too many spells.

Maybe, just maybe, at higher levels I'll just reanimate high HD monsters for XP. I'll order them to kill our party and voila, lots of bonus XP the DM didn't plan on XD

You shouldn't be able to farm xp in d&D. It's...not supposed to work like that.

[Zanos]

Worth getting as an SLA via an Archmage dip, though.
Not unless you wanna pay 50k experience for it. I suppose you could use Supernatural Transformation, but I prefer Dweomerkeeper for that cheese.

[Venger]

Not unless you wanna pay 50k experience for it. I suppose you could use Supernatural Transformation, but I prefer Dweomerkeeper for that cheese.

or pale master in a low-op game. or spellstitching in a high-op one.

[Brunks]

Technically you can cast Revive Undead on a destroyed undead, but it's 6th level and probably not worth the 5k material component unless you had a very excellent undead.

Actually it is only 500gp, way more affordable.

[Venger]

Actually it is only 500gp, way more affordable.



Material Component: A black pearl
worth at least 5,000 gp.

No it isn't.

[Phelix-Mu]

No it isn't.

Perhaps this is one of those spells with multiple printings? SC should hold precedence, in any case.

[Venger]

Perhaps this is one of those spells with multiple printings? SC should hold precedence, in any case.

that's why I quoted spell compendium's price, since it's considered to supercede libris mortis's listed price of 500gp.

[Phelix-Mu]

that's why I quoted spell compendium's price, since it's considered to supercede libris mortis's listed price of 500gp.

As far as game balance goes, 5k seems steep, but 500 is too cheap. I'd probably peg it around 2k and call it a day if a player really wanted to bring back their undead on a regular basis.

A bigger question is "why?" Most undead are pretty easy to replicate for cheaper, unless bodies are scarce or something. Certainly only intelligent or skilled ones are worth bringing back, and animate dead can't really make those.

If you revive an undead crafted with special stuff via Corpsecrafter or those other Dragon Magz feat along the same lines, does it retain those features? Cause I just thought up an interesting idea with Destruction Retribution and resetting traps/Craft Contingent Spells of revive undead. Not useful, but amusing (and maybe useful against pcs).

[Extra Anchovies]

Not unless you wanna pay 50k experience for it. I suppose you could use Supernatural Transformation, but I prefer Dweomerkeeper for that cheese.

Hm. Missed that bit. Thanks for catching it, so I don't implement it in a future build via Archmage.

[Gemini476]

You shouldn't be able to farm xp in d&D. It's...not supposed to work like that.

If it isn't actually a challenge for your party you don't actually get any XP, IIRC.

Then again, XP is entirely up to the whim of the DM as is, so...