what happens if release a spell in a creatures throat

[belkasro]

my character is Beguiler 3 Duskblade 1

what happens if shove your hand and prefrom a damaging spell in a NPC throat. Don't think there are any rules for it but I can be wrong.

Shocking grasp- will it kill it on one go or stun it for many rounds

Burning hands- think it would blow up its head or set it's innards on fire.

Acid splash- melt a hole in its throat or not able to breath and die of suffocation?

trying to solo a Jackal man or Set fallower. most likely a priest since it has the dog head. so trying to save the party and low on options.

[Venger]

my character is Beguiler 3 Duskblade 1

what happens if shove your hand and prefrom a damaging spell in a NPC throat. Don't think there are any rules for it but I can be wrong.

Shocking grasp- will it kill it on one go or stun it for many rounds

Burning hands- think it would blow up its head or set it's innards on fire.

Acid splash- melt a hole in its throat or not able to breath and die of suffocation?

trying to solo a Jackal man or Set fallower. most likely a priest since it has the dog head. so trying to save the party and low on options.

no, none of these things happen. D&D does not have a wound points system and no body parts impose special penalties outside of special exceptions such as a hydra's heads.

why are you a beguiler3/duskblade 1?

[icefractal]

There's two separate questions here:
1) Spell cast from inside target. By the RAW, nothing special happens.

Personally, I would treat the spell as an automatic crit for spells that require an attack, treat any reflex save as automatically failed, and (depending on the creature) it might ignore some/all of the energy resistance. And if it did significant damage, I'd have the creature make a Fort save or vomit the culprit out.

However, for creatures that commonly swallow people whole, their stomach is presumably semi-armored to deal with this. I'd still treat it as an auto-hit, auto-reflex-fail, but not a crit.


2) Sticking your hand down something's throat. Again, by RAW you can't do this, unless the target was helpless.

I'd be inclined to say that if you're doing it forcefully, you need to have them grappled, pinned, and then succeed at a third grapple check. If you're waiting until they try to bite you and shoving it in then, that'd require a Bluff check, and you'd only have like a 25-50% chance on a given bite that they were coming in at the right angle for it.


Re: Shouldn't it be much more deadly? IMO, no.
1) Gameplay Perspective - stealthy casters are already pretty damn good. Letting them auto-kill anyone they get the drop on would really unbalance things. As a player, would you want pixie assassins auto-killing you?
2) Verisimilitude Perspective - HP either represents sheer toughness or a combination of luck/skill, depending on who you ask.
a) By the sheer toughness viewpoint, even the inside of their body would be tough as hell, far tougher than a RL person.
b) By the luck/skill viewpoint, you wouldn't actually be able to scorch their throat if they weren't out of HP. They'd turn their head at the last moment, or move in a way that makes the spell partially fizzle, or whatever.

[Extra Anchovies]

no, none of these things happen. D&D does not have a wound points system and no body parts impose special penalties outside of special exceptions such as a hydra's heads.

Well, there is a sidebar in the DMG (page 27) regarding area-specific damage. Regardless, I'd rule spell-down-the-throat as a standard coup de grace, which is possible with the above (weaponlike) spells.

[Venger]

Well, there is a sidebar in the DMG (page 27) regarding area-specific damage. Regardless, I'd rule spell-down-the-throat as a standard coup de grace, which is possible with the above (weaponlike) spells.

Right, but that's a variant, like spell points or gestalt, rather than a standard rule.

Well then, enjoy your players using it from now on, since there'd never be a reason to use spells normally again.

or did you mean only usable when a target's helpless? in that case why not just shank him with a scythe like normal people?

[Jeff the Green]

Well, there is a sidebar in the DMG (page 27) regarding area-specific damage. Regardless, I'd rule spell-down-the-throat as a standard coup de grace, which is possible with the above (weaponlike) spells.

So would I. I'd also rule that the creature got a free AoO to bite off the spellcaster's arm.

[Venger]

So would I. I'd also rule that the creature got a free AoO to bite off the spellcaster's arm.

Oh man, in this world, we'd have jacks b quick finding ways to compel people to reach into their mouths for free AoOs.

What have you done?

[Extra Anchovies]

Oh man, in this world, we'd have jacks b quick finding ways to compel people to reach into their mouths for free AoOs.

What have you done?

"Hey kid, pull my finger"

*stabs kid six times, makes fart noise with mouth, walks away*

[Venger]

"Hey kid, pull my finger"

*stabs kid six times, makes fart noise with mouth, walks away*

This is divine prankster's killing joke.

[Phelix-Mu]

These last few posts represent the high point of my week.

For some reason this all conjures up a weird mix of D&D dentists and Sweeny Todd. But I guess I have the joke backwards.

Probably because it's 4am here, lol.

[atemu1234]

These last few posts represent the high point of my week.

For some reason this all conjures up a weird mix of D&D dentists and Sweeny Todd. But I guess I have the joke backwards.

Probably because it's 4am here, lol.

That'd involve levels of Avenging Executioner, though. And Profession (Barber).

Considering the time period, being both a dentist and a barber was expected, as well as commonplace.

[Venger]

These last few posts represent the high point of my week.

For some reason this all conjures up a weird mix of D&D dentists and Sweeny Todd. But I guess I have the joke backwards.

Probably because it's 4am here, lol.

"At your service ... An honor to receive your patronage, my lord."


That'd involve levels of Avenging Executioner, though. And Profession (Barber).

Considering the time period, being both a dentist and a barber was expected, as well as commonplace.
Or you could take levels in dragon magazine's barber prc.

At the time the play's set, they actually weren't different jobs. a specialized "dentist" didn't exist in england yet. that and any other commonplace physiological procedure was performed by your local barber, called "barber-surgeons. when physicians began to set themselves apart from these people later on in the early 20th century in fields like psychiatry (psychiatrists at the time were actually called "alienists" which is where the prc gets its name) began to set themselves apart from "common" barber-surgeons since they went to school and had training and stuff. as a result, only certain kinds of medical professionals, (excluding barber-surgeons) were allowed the title of doctor. barber-surgeons were still "mr."

this persists today in england and some commonwealth countries specifics--as always when it comes to idiosyncrasies of how they speak english--vary, of course, surgeons are still called "mr." and not "dr."

[belkasro]

Thanks guys Appreciate the replies and advice on the odd question. So far its a medium creature that is a worshiper of Set. has the jackal head and trying some way to put him down quickly. I got separated from the party. So I'm stuck facing him til help arrives but don't think they will get there in time. So trying to find a quick way to instant kill him.

Thought about using true strike and ram my sword through his head and pierce his brain, but game mechanics wont let that happen. So find out on the next game if I need to make a new character or not.

on the level note

Beguiler 3 Duskblade 1

Got the duskblade level for free so working what I have. So far been pretty useful to be both damage and battle field control.

[Fouredged Sword]

Need to take him down quick? Color spray, then CDG or just attack after he is blind, stunned, and maybe unconscious. It's on your beguiler list and you can cast that whole list spontaneously.

[Chronos]

Or just do a whole bunch of damage to him quickly.

Just remember, if it's possible to insta-kill something, then it's possible for enemies to do it to you, too. You don't want that, because there are a lot more enemies than there are of you.

[Jeff the Green]

Need to take him down quick? Color spray, then CDG or just attack after he is blind, stunned, and maybe unconscious. It's on your beguiler list and you can cast that whole list spontaneously.

You can't perform a coup de grace on an enemy that's only blind or stunned. They have to be "bound, asleep, paralyzed, unconscious, or otherwise at your mercy", and being blind or stunned is none of those.

[Fouredged Sword]

Color spray knocks creatures with >2 HD unconscious.

[Jeff the Green]

I'm aware. Regardless of whether you intended it or not, however, what you said implied that you can perform a coup de grace on blind or stunned enemies, which is plainly not true.

[Nibbens]

The rule of cool flys at all my tables. I was once a halfling rogue who gad gotten "swallowed whole" by an anaconda. The cleric calmly walks over and tells the DM he wants to shove his hand down the anaconda's mouth and cast create water.

Now, let's pause time here. The DM was well within his rights to say "Okay, nothing is going to happen because bla bla blablabla," and the event would have disappeared from all our memories and I wouldn't be posting this now because "nothing would have happened."

However, the DM saw a chance for a memorable moment. He saw that we, as a group, could use a bit of humor, or even if it was just to reward the cleric for his ingenuity, and he allowed it to fly.

The cleric cast his spell, and the anaconda exploded, throwing water and snake viscera (do snakes have viscera? I don't know... whatever) all over the party and onlooking townspeople.

Sure, the DM has his minor fight overcome by a 0 level spell, and sure the fight was over before it started. However, not a single participant at that table has forgotten the Anaconda-Swallowed-Halfing-PC-and-cleric-cast-Create-Water-to-make-anaconda-explode moment since it's happened. Ten years later, we still bring it up.

So, the point remains. Who really cares what RAW says when a player pulls something out his ass that makes everyone laugh for years to come? What's the point of the game anyway? - Fun. Memories. Laughter.

Since then, the rule of cool outweighs RAW every day at my table.

(Now, for clarification: A DM is well within his right to veto the rule of cool, if at any point the cool factor has lost its coolness. If the same player tried this again at a later date, it's lost it's cool factor - so the DM says that the cleric casts the spell and "nothing happens," or whatever and it would be legitimate.)

EDIT: Ah, this is a PC writing. (Had to reread) In that case, it totally depends on your DM. Does he let the cool fly? IF not, there's nothing in RAW to give the spell extra oomph. Sorry.

[Sartharina]

Well then, enjoy your players using it from now on, since there'd never be a reason to use spells normally again.You mean, aside from it requiring you to put yourself in a compromising position (Melee and GRAPPLED with an enemy who's probably larger than you), and spending several turns to do so?
You get more bang for your spellslot, but significantly less for your time, and it seems to be something VERY sensitive to context and opportunity.

[Dalebert]

I really like the Rule of Cool. I would just be cautious that something you allow in the heat of the moment in a very particular context does not become a general rule in your game. Generally, I would most definitely not want casters shoving their hands into monster mouths and releasing spells. At minimum, it should be very difficult to pull off and extremely risky. I like the suggestion to allow the monster a chance to dismember the caster with a bite.