Streangth rogue build.

[Rfkannen]

So I was thinking about the rogue and how obviously dexterity was the stat that you wanted for this build, mostly because your sneak attack needs a finesse weapon to work. I then realized something, you can use fineness weapons with strength. That got me thinking, and eventually I came up with this build that I may use for my next character.

The basic idea is to use the rogue class as a heavy armor wielding tank that can destroy the battlefield.


Race wise you have a good amount of choice, You could go variant human with shield master feat to get that a bit early. You could go dwarf for the good constitution bonus, But for this build were going to assume half orc.

Stat wise for a half orc you would want

Strength 17
Condition 16
dexterity 13
charisma 12
intelligence 10
inelegance 10

Equipment wise your final goal will be full plate and a rapier. Since the rapier can be used with strength and allows you to still use your sneak attack it is pretty much the only weapon you would want to use. And plate gives the highest ac.

The basic build is this, first level you go war cleric 1. This gives you a single second attack and more importantly, heavy armor. This is mostly just so you don't have to deal with light armor, can be replaced with any other class that gives heavy armor.

From there you go rogue, but you may be wondering why.

Well at level 1 you get sneak attack, since this can work with you using strength instead of dexterity with your rapier, you get the whole benefit of this

Expertise; skills are always good.

Thieves can't; this is always pretty much useless

Cunning action you do lose a bit on but it still works for the charging feat.

Uncanny Dodge just makes you that much more tanky.

Evasion; this would seem to lose some stuff because of your strength focus, however with shield master this is not that much worse than with a dexterity build.

reliable talent, Skills are always useful

Blind sense always is good.

Proficiency in wisdom saving throws works just as well

Elusive just makes you the master of tankyness

Now for archetype you go arcane trickster, with the spell casting levels from cleric added on you get a fair amount of magical power.

Feat wise,

The first feat you want is shield master, this gives you more battle field control and adds your shield ac to your dexterity saving throw.

This is probably the best use of the charger feat as you usually don't have a second attack.

Heavy armor master gives you some nice tankyness and brings your strength to 18

You then want to bring your strength to 20

Finally sentinel makes you the ultimate tank for your party.

What do you think?

[Shadow]

A multiclass rogue/cleric needs 13 Dex and 13 Wis. You don't have the Wisdom.
And the Charger feat is all but useless on a rogue. They get features and can use actions and feats which basically make the feat a trap for a rogue. It's not a great feat to begin with, and a this is espcially true for a rogue (although that becomes less true in the case that you're a multiclass using a shield, so some consideration there).
But honestly, by using a Dex build for this instead of Str, you lose 1 point of AC (and you get it faster), you don't need a feat to get your effective Dex save to a good place, and your skills are more workable.
There is almost no reason to build a Str rogue. You can, but there's no real point other than fluff.

Take those same scores with Wis 10, Str 17 & Dex 13 and swap them to Wis 13, Str 10 & Dex 17.
You now need many less feats (heavy armor master undeeded, shield master uneeded, charger almost worthless), have 1 AC less, lose 3 DR from heavy armor master, actually have the stats to multiclass, and have 3 more ASIs to work with for other feats or higher stats.

edit:
As for the claim that charger is useless on a rogue:
Charger: use your action to Dash (required by the feat), use bonus action to attack or shove. If you move 10' before taking *this* bonus action, you get +5 damage to the attack or shove 10' instead of 5.
Now consider a rogue with, say.... Crossbow Expert or simply TWFing without any feats.
If you want the extra damage, 1d6+Dex (from XbX) is more than 5 unless your Dex is very low. If you want to shove, all you need is to be using TWFing (or XbX if using handbow/finesse combo) and you can shove as an action without a feat, and still get a sneak attack in as a bonus action. If you want to move before doing so, feel free. No feat needed.
And if you don't shove or shoot, you can still use your bonus action to Disengage (and not take OAs from spring attacking).

Granted, these scenarios have a weapon in your other hand instead of a shield, so your AC is now 3 points lower comparatively instead of 1.

[Easy_Lee]

The only strength rogue I've personally heard of is the halforc rogue assassin 3 / barbarian X build with a greataxe. You still don't dump dex, but get it up to some reasonable number, take the alert feat and try to one-round everything. As far as going pure or war-cleric rogue with strength...I think we'd need a new archetype for that.

[Kerleth]

For a strength rogue I would try to maximize the advantages of Expertise (Athletics) to make a tripmaster. Bonus points for also grabbing expertise in acrobatics to be a parkour master.

I would probably multiclass barbarian, because rage 1) Cuts damage dealt to you in half, so you can be a good sticky tripmaster. 2) gives advantage on strength checks, such as shoving or tripping. Also, reckless attack lets you sneak attack whenever you want, so you aren't stuck just being a tripmaster. This is just off the cuff, but


Half-Orc
Strength 16 (14+2)
Dexterity 13
Constitution 16 (15+1)
Wisdom 12
Charisma 10
Intelligence 8

Skills:
Acrobatics, Deception, Perception, Stealth (rogue class), Intimidation (Half-Orc), Athletics, Survival (Outlander Background)
Tools: Thieves Tools, Instrument

This would allow you multiple avenues to contribute in all 3 pillars. Rogue 1/Barbarian 1 would let you have a 16 AC (Barbarian Unarmored plus shield) while wielding a rapier with strength. I would probably go barbarian 3 as quickly as possible to pick up the extra attack from frenzied berserker, allowing you to trip and attack an enemy in the same round while frenzied. Until then, and when not frenzied, you can alternate between straight damage and trip tanking as the situation warrants.

The general concept leaves plenty of room for tweaking to taste, swapping skills, race, and class split. You are useful from level one, and are probably gonna be fairly unique from about level 4 onwards.

[Shadow]

The only strength rogue I've personally heard of is the halforc rogue assassin 3 / barbarian X build with a greataxe.

That's not a rogue, that's a barbarian with a few rogue levels.

[Kaeso]

Forgive me for being a party pooper but: why? Unless you're playing with the carrying capacity rules, strength has literally no advantage to a rogue. As you said yourself, sneak attack already requires finesse weapons so you might as well use dex.


The basic idea is to use the rogue class as a heavy armor wielding tank that can destroy the battlefield.

This sounds like a fun idea, but merely makes me wonder if your rogue (concept) really needs to be a rogue (class). You want a strong, sneaky guy who can wear armor, right? Why not just play a fighter or a barbarian or a war cleric with the criminal background? You'll get the proficiencies you need, you'll be able to wield weapons and wear armor of any kind and you don't need high dex.

Your build as it stands now is odd to me. It has high dex, but does not use it.

[Safety Sword]

Forgive me for being a party pooper but: why? Unless you're playing with the carrying capacity rules, strength has literally no advantage to a rogue. As you said yourself, sneak attack already requires finesse weapons so you might as well use dex.



This sounds like a fun idea, but merely makes me wonder if your rogue (concept) really needs to be a rogue (class). You want a strong, sneaky guy who can wear armor, right? Why not just play a fighter or a barbarian or a war cleric with the criminal background? You'll get the proficiencies you need, you'll be able to wield weapons and wear armor of any kind and you don't need high dex.

Your build as it stands now is odd to me. It has high dex, but does not use it.

It's just the difference between the rogue character class or the rogue character ideal. I think Kaeso has it nailed.

Unless you want to actually have sneak attack, because, you do.

[Easy_Lee]

That's not a rogue, that's a barbarian with a few rogue levels.

Which is basically my point.

[Perseus]

The only reason I see to go Str based for rogue is to grapple-stab an enemy.

There are better things to do but yeah I could see a grappling rogue dagger stabber working out pretty well...

[Shadow]

The only reason I see to go Str based for rogue is to grapple-stab an enemy.

There are better things to do but yeah I could see a grappling rogue dagger stabber working out pretty well...

Even then, spending one of your Expertise choices on Athletics ends up being better than max Str. Going for a Str build and also spending that Expertise on Athletics would make for an ultra-mean grappler.

[Perseus]

Even then, spending one of your Expertise choices on Athletics ends up being better than max Str. Going for a Str build and also spending that Expertise on Athletics would make for an ultra-mean grappler.

Yeah that's the point, go strength based + expertise.

My EK Grappling Fighter has a couple levels of rogue for expertise. So far he is looking pretty nice but he is mostly fighter not rogue.

[Callin]

Was looking at this earlier and remembered this thread. Had to retire my wiz 2 clr 3 today due to opness. Conj 2 ability and pvp does not a good combo make.

So anyways... have to make a Lizardfolk due to location and I get to keep their Multiattack ability. Heck yea right. So was thinking Fighter 1 Rogue 4. Two weapon fighting with the Spiked Shield in the Lizardman Block and a Scimitar\Short Sword.

Would be a very workable combo with this set of abilities but this is not tbe normal.

[Safety Sword]

Was looking at this earlier and remembered this thread. Had to retire my wiz 2 clr 3 today due to opness. Conj 2 ability and pvp does not a good combo make.

So anyways... have to make a Lizardfolk due to location and I get to keep their Multiattack ability. Heck yea right. So was thinking Fighter 1 Rogue 4. Two weapon fighting with the Spiked Shield in the Lizardman Block and a Scimitar\Short Sword.

Would be a very workable combo with this set of abilities but this is not tbe normal.

You retired your previous character because it was OP and so you're planning on replacing it with a Multi-attacking damage shield slam sneak attacking character?

Good luck with that ;)

[Callin]

My group is bass ackwards. Melee can have nice things casters get castrated if they even hint at op. My DMs are weird like that haha. Decided on going Ftr 1 Warlock 4 anyways for versitality.

Besides this guy isnt dropping 20d6 acid 5ft splash at will or 10d6 20ft burst dynamite sticks

[rollingForInit]

I don't see why rogues have to use dexterity instead of strength, or why you couldn't sneak attack non-finesse weapons (doing so with heavy weapons might be a stretch, though).

And I just dislike the "use a Fighter with other fluff" argument, since personally I think the fighter is such an absurdly boring class, in terms of play style and class features. I just wouldn't play it, more than perhaps take a level or two in it for a special build.

[Perseus]

I don't see why rogues have to use dexterity instead of strength, or why you couldn't sneak attack non-finesse weapons (doing so with heavy weapons might be a stretch, though).

And I just dislike the "use a Fighter with other fluff" argument, since personally I think the fighter is such an absurdly boring class, in terms of play style and class features. I just wouldn't play it, more than perhaps take a level or two in it for a special build.

In all honesty the Fighter and Rogue should be one class and let subclasses sort out the differences.

Working on it now really.

[D-naras]

If I ever play a Half-Orc Strength Rogue, I would first take 5 levels in Champion for the increased critical, the extra attack and maybe the Shield Master feat. All my remaining levels would go to Rogue. Trip as a bonus action or one of you 2 attacks, then sneak attack the prone target with your rapier. If you crit, you get to double all those sweet sneak attack dice.

[Jeebs]

One build I like is Fighter 1/Rogue 19. Start as a Fighter to get Martial Weapons (esp. Heavy Crossbow, Scimitar, Whip), Medium Armor, Shields, and CON save proficiency.

Take Shield Master when you can, and use your bonus action and expertise in Athletics to knock enemies prone, giving yourself advantage and sneak attacks.

Take Archery as your Fighting Style so that you increase your chance for landing ranged sneak attacks as well.

The one thing I have trouble with is the fact that you might want to max DEX first instead of STR because it's tied to Stealth, ranged attacks, your AC (at least once you get out of Medium Armor), and what is now a non-proficient save (until you can squeeze in the Resilient feat). I'm not sure just how high you need to get your Athletics bonuses. Is Expertise so valuable that your actual STR modifier doesn't need to get to +5?

[rollingForInit]

In all honesty the Fighter and Rogue should be one class and let subclasses sort out the differences.

Working on it now really.

I'm not sure I like that idea, personally. The subclasses as they exist now add minor tweaks to a base class. I don't think that you can get two subclasses that are so widely different as fighters and rogues are supposed to be. Fighters are battle masters, lots of weapon and armor proficiences, they hit hard and often and are sturdy. Rogues are skill monkies, experts at most things related to thievery and have a tie to some sort of underworld or "rogueish" way of life.

If you're going to cram all of those differences into two subclasses you might as well keep the classes apart. And you'd have to cram all of the fighter and rogue subclass features (e.g. pure thief abilities, assassin, etc) into one subclass as well. If you don't make the subclasses huge, there won't be a lot of difference.

Of course, it'd be cool if you proved me wrong, so I'd love to see it when you're done.