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j_spencer93
2014-11-16, 12:13 PM
I do not understand this race and its racial template and class. It seems that they give almost the same benefits that do not stake, so that would make it really redundant. The wing fire damage (which i do not understand really, is that damage when cloaked in fire?) and other abilities do not stack as far as i can tell. What is the point in getting both? It seems getting the template is better.

Template:
Type: Changes you to outsider.
Speed: Increase flight speed by 30 feet.
Armor Class: Gains a defensive bonus to AC equal to the base creature’s Charisma bonus (if any).
—Flaming Wings (Su): Increase fire damage to 2d6.
—Spell resistance equal to creature’s HD + 10 (maximum 35)
Abilities: Increase from the base creature as follows: Str +2, Dex +2.

Class:
Flaming Wings (Su) At each level, your manifested wings increase in size and power and your flight speed increases by 10 feet. At 1st level, the fire damage dealt by your wings increases to 1d8. At 2nd level, your maneuverability increases to good and the fire damage increases to 2d6. At 3rd level, the fire damage increases to 3d6.
Spell Resistance Beginning at 1st level, you gain spell resistance equal to your character level +10.
Fiery Aura (Su) Once per day at 2nd level, you may wreathe your body in an aura of radiant flame. While your aura is active, you cannot use your wings to fly,but you gain a deflection bonus to Armor Class equal to your Charisma bonus (if any), and any creature striking you with a handheld melee weapon or natural weapon (including an unarmed strike) takes fire damage equal to that delivered by your wings. You may maintain the fiery aura for a number of rounds equal to 3 plus your Constitution modifier.
Native Outsider At 3rd level, your type changes to outsider (fire, native). You are no longer susceptible to spells and effects that target humanoids or elves; however, you are vulnerable to any effects targeting outsiders or fire creatures. As a native outsider, you still need to eat, breathe, and sleep, but you no longer suffer the effects of aging or disease.

Urpriest
2014-11-16, 01:07 PM
What source are these from?

j_spencer93
2014-11-16, 01:12 PM
Races of Ansalon and...cant really remember where the template is from but its another Dragonlance book.

j_spencer93
2015-02-04, 11:50 PM
ok so i still need help on this

torrasque666
2015-02-05, 12:11 AM
do note that due to some wonky legal issues, most of dragonlance is considered 3rd party, only the campaign setting book is noted as 1st party. Just throwin it out there.

j_spencer93
2015-02-05, 12:14 AM
i understand that, its just this template seems very redundant...actually it seems the template gives you everything the class does so having to acquire one to get the other makes no sense unless they are meant to stack.

j_spencer93
2015-02-05, 12:24 AM
Check Races of Ansalon + spectre of sorrows (i think) to see what i am talking about.
Actually i just realized that i do not think the authors wrote these to be used together although the template can be gain at level 7 through roll play, the same time your player should go through the right of ascension to be able to take the class so i just assumed they were.

torrasque666
2015-02-05, 02:01 AM
Having finally dug up a copy of Specter of Sorrow I have this to say.

You're looking at this the wrong way. You don't take the racial class and the template, but one or the other. They were meant to be used separately(likely with the base phaethon in their respective sources) And do a side-by-side comparison of the two.



Elder Phaethon
Class
Template


HD
3d8 per level
none


Fly Speed
+10(if text trumps table is applied)
+30 ft


Maneuverability
Good
Average


Stat Mods
+2 Str,+2 Dex,+2 Cha
+2 Str,+2 Dex


Fire Damage
+3d6
+2d6


SR
Character Level +10(uncapped)
HD+10(Max 35)


Fiery Aura
Yes, 1/day add CHA to AC and fire damage to weapons, 3+CON rounds
Nope


Type
Outside(Native,Fire)
Just Outsider(native implied, but not stated)



So you actually gain HP with the class that you don't with the template, as well as a higher fire damage, charisma, better maneuverability, potentially better SR(who plays past 25? dunno. but its uncapped) and the ability to add the fire damage to your weapons. And while technically you can take the template sooner(as it just says 7th level, implying ECL, while the class has a requirement that can't be met until 7 HD) it probably wouldn't be viewed as such by the DM. Of course, if you're the DM, I'd say go with the template as I'm a believer that material printed in adventure paths is designed for DM use, not player use.

j_spencer93
2015-02-05, 02:09 AM
its for a PC but i am DM. somehow i thought you gained the template then it allowed you to get the class but i was wrong lol

torrasque666
2015-02-05, 02:33 AM
its for a PC but i am DM. somehow i thought you gained the template then it allowed you to get the class but i was wrong lol
No, simply being a Phaethon with 7 or more class levels allows you to take either and frankly I like the class more. Theoretically you could manage to get a sum of LA+3 when taking the template(+2 form Phaethon, -1 at level 6 from LA buy off, +2 from Elder Phaethon template) or you could wind up with an LA of none and another feat by taking the class.

j_spencer93
2015-02-05, 03:11 AM
i like the class better too lol. Actually an interesting character, obsessed with connecting his soul to fire further (at level 7 if played right i will allow the rite of ascension), but after finishing elder phaethon he is going to slowly find fire to be weaker then he anticipated in the grand scheme....so he turns to the flames above fire, Hellfire becoming a Disciple of Mephistopheles