What does Wild Shape replace?

[Endarire]

Greetings, all!

I understand a Druid's Wild Shape replaces my STR/DEX/CON scores with my form's. What about my feats or racial abilities? For example, if I go Dwarf and get +1 HP/level, does that carry over into my new form?

[JoeJ]

Greetings, all!

I understand a Druid's Wild Shape replaces my STR/DEX/CON scores with my form's. What about my feats or racial abilities? For example, if I go Dwarf and get +1 HP/level, does that carry over into my new form?

First of all, you can't change into a dwarf with wild shape, you can only change into beasts.

You keep your Int, Wis, and Cha scores, your alignment and personality, and your skill and saving throw proficiencies.

[Regulas]

First of all, you can't change into a dwarf with wild shape, you can only change into beasts.

I think he meant if he was a hill dwarf, would the bonus hill dwarf HP carry over to the new beast form (which would be a No)

[Safety Sword]

First of all, you can't change into a dwarf with wild shape, you can only change into beasts.

You keep your Int, Wis, and Cha scores, your alignment and personality, and your skill and saving throw proficiencies.

I think the question is: If I am a dwarf druid and I wild shape, do I get to keep my racial hit point bonus?

I think the answer is "no", but also, away from my books so I'll want to reserve my official answer.

Edit: NINJA'D!

[Shadow]

You chose a poor example of hill dwarf and HP.
The answer to your specific example is No, because you gain the HP of the beast.
The answer to your general question is Yes, because it's a racial feature that doesn't have another rule (such as HP during wildshape) that supercedes it.
For example, an halfling druid in wild shape retains the Lucky feature.

You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so. However, you can’t use any of your special senses, such as darkvision, unless your new form also has that sense.

[JoeJ]

I think he meant if he was a hill dwarf, would the bonus hill dwarf HP carry over to the new beast form (which would be a No)

Oops! Right.

[hymer]

I understand a Druid's Wild Shape replaces my STR/DEX/CON scores with my form's. What about my feats or racial abilities? For example, if I go Dwarf and get +1 HP/level, does that carry over into my new form?

The only definitive answer is going to be coming from your DM. Does +1hp/lvl mean that your wild shape forms have more hp than those of other druids? Will it then refer to your level or the beast form's HD? Or does it simply mean you keep the hp in the dwarf layer of your onion druid?
Not every DM is going to have the same ruling on this, and the rules are often unclear on how they interact with each other, which is intentional by the designers. It's supposed to be the DM's call.
While you're asking, you may want to bring up various feats you consider taking, especially ones that give +1 to a physical score. Does that +1 carry over to the animal form?

[Perseus]

First of all, you can't change into a dwarf with wild shape, you can only change into beasts.

You keep your Int, Wis, and Cha scores, your alignment and personality, and your skill and saving throw proficiencies.

Idk... Dwarves can be quite beastly ;)

[Vogonjeltz]

Greetings, all!

I understand a Druid's Wild Shape replaces my STR/DEX/CON scores with my form's. What about my feats or racial abilities? For example, if I go Dwarf and get +1 HP/level, does that carry over into my new form?

Among other things, your "normal form" is replaced by the "beast shape".

[Perseus]

Oh, watch out... There is at least one person who thinks that by RAW if you get taken down to 0hp while in beast form you go unconscious even after you revert to your normal form... Even if your normal form has full HP.

So check with your DM before doing anything :smallannoyed:

[Jakinbandw]

I don't think that it is rules as intended, but I do think that it Makes the Druid class as a whole less stupidly overpowered. And if RAW makes the game more balanced, I'm not sure why I would read it any other way.

[Perseus]

I don't think that it is rules as intended, but I do think that it Makes the Druid class as a whole less stupidly overpowered. And if RAW makes the game more balanced, I'm not sure why I would read it any other way.

Wait? Putting someone in a permanent coma because they are at full hp should be RAW legal?

That's about as sane as healing by drowning from 3.5...

If you was replying to something else then never mind.

[Sartharina]

... I'm starting to think that stat boosts from level may apply, as do special qualities like "Dwarven Toughness".

A dwarf's wildshape may very well be +Level tougher than any other race's wildshape. Yes, HP are replaced... but then boosted by a racial feature.

[MaxWilson]

... I'm starting to think that stat boosts from level may apply, as do special qualities like "Dwarven Toughness".

A dwarf's wildshape may very well be +Level tougher than any other race's wildshape. Yes, HP are replaced... but then boosted by a racial feature.

And the Toughness feat?

This is a slippery slope.

[Perseus]

... I'm starting to think that stat boosts from level may apply, as do special qualities like "Dwarven Toughness".

A dwarf's wildshape may very well be +Level tougher than any other race's wildshape. Yes, HP are replaced... but then boosted by a racial feature.

I can see that, actually is pretty cool when you think about it.

Maybe someday I'll be able to recreate my 4e Dwarven Swarm Druid... But even tougher!

[Invader]

And the Toughness feat?

This is a slippery slope.

I'm not convinced hit points from toughness carry over to animal form. It's something specifically tied to the characters hitpoints and character level, neither of which carry over to animal form.

[Perseus]

"You retain the benefits of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them in the new form"

Dwarven Bonus Hit Points: Race Feature
Toughness: Feat : Class Feature

I'm pretty sure HP is something that the new form can use...

[Invader]

"You retain the benefits of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them in the new form"

Dwarven Bonus Hit Points: Race Feature
Toughness: Feat : Class Feature

I'm pretty sure HP is something that the new form can use...

By that reasoning if I take the athlete feat the point of strength I get is a class feature and I get to add it to my animals strength score.

It seems like a case of general vs specific to me. It says generally you get class features but you specifically get the animal forms hit points.

[MaxWilson]

I'm not convinced hit points from toughness carry over to animal form. It's something specifically tied to the characters hitpoints and character level, neither of which carry over to animal form.

I'm not really persuaded either, at this point. (It seems like HP should be overwritten, not boosted.) I would need to sit down with the PHB and have a good close look at the wording for all the relevant rules--unfortunately I think 5E is not designed to be read that way.

[Perseus]

By that reasoning if I take the athlete feat the point of strength I get is a class feature and I get to add it to my animals strength score.

It seems like a case of general vs specific to me. It says generally you get class features but you specifically get the animal forms hit points.

Feats are a class feature so I'm not sure where the confusion is coming from. Now if you had sentinel feat but transformed into a horse... Well you wouldn't be able to use that feat. But if you were an Ape and had the sentinel feat then you could use the feat.

Pretty cut and dry really.

[Invader]

Feats are a class feature so I'm not sure where the confusion is coming from. Now if you had sentinel feat but transformed into a horse... Well you wouldn't be able to use that feat. But if you were an Ape and had the sentinel feat then you could use the feat.

Pretty cut and dry really.

I just gave you an example.

Are you saying you get the bonus to ability score from feats like athlete while in animal form?

Why would an ape benefit from sentinel and not a horse? A horse makes a melee attack the same way as an ape, there's no difference in the benefit of the feat.

[Perseus]

I just gave you an example.

Are you saying you get the bonus to ability score from feats like athlete while in animal form?

Why would an ape benefit from sentinel and not a horse? A horse makes a melee attack the same way as an ape, there's no difference in the benefit of the feat.

I was thinking Polearm Master (which sentinel is the polearm master's choice in feats).

The horse does not have the physical ability to wield a polearm whereas the ape can. The ape would benefit from the feat due to the wording of wildshape. A horse could use sentinel within its reach (not sure what a horse's reach is) but the ape could use sentinel with a polearm.

And yes, ability score bonuses from feats are features of the feat and thus subject to be given to the beast/elemental form.

There is no other wording that makes sense. Wildshape doesn't say something like "you gain all class features except feats" now does it?

The difference between Toughness feat and class HD is just that. One is HP you get from your HD and the other is HP you get from a feat. They are not the same source. ASI could or could not fall under this same thought process, they are class features and not your base ability scores...

Therefore a Dwarven Druid with Wildshape would get a lot more HP for their beast/elemental forms than normal druids.

I'm not saying this is the balanced way to go or that its good for every DM but by RAW and by Coolness... It works.

[Eslin]

I was thinking Polearm Master (which sentinel is the polearm master's choice in feats).

The horse does not have the physical ability to wield a polearm whereas the ape can. The ape would benefit from the feat due to the wording of wildshape. A horse could use sentinel within its reach (not sure what a horse's reach is) but the ape could use sentinel with a polearm.

And yes, ability score bonuses from feats are features of the feat and thus subject to be given to the beast/elemental form.

There is no other wording that makes sense. Wildshape doesn't say something like "you gain all class features except feats" now does it?

The difference between Toughness feat and class HD is just that. One is HP you get from your HD and the other is HP you get from a feat. They are not the same source. ASI could or could not fall under this same thought process, they are class features and not your base ability scores...

Therefore a Dwarven Druid with Wildshape would get a lot more HP for their beast/elemental forms than normal druids.

I'm not saying this is the balanced way to go or that its good for every DM but by RAW and by Coolness... It works.

Tough's wording precludes it working I think, though it seems to work for pretty much every other feat. Looks like I'm gonna have to update the ideal druid build - it isn't max con and wis, it's high wis and enough physical stats to hit 20 with whatever form you like most.

My first thought was that the earth elemental's gonna get tanky, but honestly grabbing heavy armour proficiency and some non metal fullplate will probably work just fine. If not, get that dex to 20!

Anyone know how armour, shields and natural armour interact?

[Fwiffo86]

Onto elves!!!

Situation question? Do wildshaped elves still retain their resistance to charm and immunity to sleep? I think so, as they get their race bonus.

Second question: What happens when you have a wildshaped druid who gets (and fails) power word kill? Since it doesn't actually do damage, they just need to be at 100 or less hp, do they die? Or do they just fail the save, revert to being their normal self, and are fine?

My interpretation is that being knocked down to 0hp is NOT considered death. It just triggers the automatic revert. Death is a completely separate issue/condition. I'm thinking the onion druid gets ganked just like anyone else that fails power word kill. And what you are left with is a very dead character.

Edited for additional info...

I have a player that considers wild shape to be one giant pool. Thus his druid has X hp, and when wildshaped, he has X hp + hp of new form, thus he argues that you can't target him with PWK as his HP is actually X+Form hp instead.

I believe them to be two completely separate pools, essentially only one of them active at a time. So he is subject to PWK in animal form as long as the animal form has 100 or less.

[Eslin]

Onto elves!!!

Situation question? Do wildshaped elves still retain their resistance to charm and immunity to sleep? I think so, as they get their race bonus.

Second question: What happens when you have a wildshaped druid who gets (and fails) power word kill? Since it doesn't actually do damage, they just need to be at 100 or less hp, do they die? Or do they just fail the save, revert to being their normal self, and are fine?

My interpretation is that being knocked down to 0hp is NOT considered death. It just triggers the automatic revert. Death is a completely separate issue/condition. I'm thinking the onion druid gets ganked just like anyone else that fails power word kill. And what you are left with is a very dead character.

Edited for additional info...

I have a player that considers wild shape to be one giant pool. Thus his druid has X hp, and when wildshaped, he has X hp + hp of new form, thus he argues that you can't target him with PWK as his HP is actually X+Form hp instead.

I believe them to be two completely separate pools, essentially only one of them active at a time. So he is subject to PWK in animal form as long as the animal form has 100 or less.

They die and then revert to their normal selves. Wild shape specifies you go back to your regular form if the time runs out, you hit 0 hp or die, so while PW:K does work on a sub 100 wild shaped druid all it does is put them back in their (likely full hp) caster form.

[Fwiffo86]

They die and then revert to their normal selves. Wild shape specifies you go back to your regular form if the time runs out, you hit 0 hp or die, so while PW:K does work on a sub 100 wild shaped druid all it does is put them back in their (likely full hp) caster form.

That much we got, but do you have a dead caster form? or a live one?

[Perseus]

Onto elves!!!

Situation question? Do wildshaped elves still retain their resistance to charm and immunity to sleep? I think so, as they get their race bonus.

Second question: What happens when you have a wildshaped druid who gets (and fails) power word kill? Since it doesn't actually do damage, they just need to be at 100 or less hp, do they die? Or do they just fail the save, revert to being their normal self, and are fine?

My interpretation is that being knocked down to 0hp is NOT considered death. It just triggers the automatic revert. Death is a completely separate issue/condition. I'm thinking the onion druid gets ganked just like anyone else that fails power word kill. And what you are left with is a very dead character.

Edited for additional info...

I have a player that considers wild shape to be one giant pool. Thus his druid has X hp, and when wildshaped, he has X hp + hp of new form, thus he argues that you can't target him with PWK as his HP is actually X+Form hp instead.

I believe them to be two completely separate pools, essentially only one of them active at a time. So he is subject to PWK in animal form as long as the animal form has 100 or less.

1: Race feature so yes.

2: Schrödinger's HP again. I would rule that the wildshape has been dispelled. Sure the caster isn't dead but a major potion of their power went away (except for level 20 moon druids...).



That much we got, but do you have a dead caster form? or a live one?

The druid is both alive and dead until you look in the box. Also do note that Justin Timberlake and Lonley Island are holding said box.


Seriously though: Live caster, moon druid has a beastly capstone.

[archaeo]

That much we got, but do you have a dead caster form? or a live one?

It sure seems like the only way to be knocked out of your form back into Druid shape is to fall to 0 HP; it says nothing whatsoever about going back to your full HP Druid shape if you die by other means, or if you get hit hard enough to kill you outright.

What happens first, in the D&D "stack"? It's my turn, and the Druid is in the form of a Mammoth who has been knocked down to 10 HP of 126. I hit the Druid for 136 damage. Does the Druid die outright? Does it revert "at" 0 HP and then take 116 damage to Druid form? If I cast PW:K, does it just die, revert, and lay there as a dead Druid, or does your form "die" and then you are just a full HP Druid?

It's not super duper clear, even with the "When you revert to your normal form, you return to the number of hit points you had before you transformed" clause. Are you dead with full HP? How does that even work?

[Eslin]

That much we got, but do you have a dead caster form? or a live one?

I'd assume live, since death is lumped in with 0hp and unconsciousness. Still, it's ambiguous enough that you could rule they die permanently if you want, though since few wild shape forms have much more than 100hp that pretty much just says 'no wildshaping'.

[Fwiffo86]

Seriously though: Live caster, moon druid has a beastly capstone.

You deal with PWK long before you get the capstone. What about before the capstone? As I said, I think death is a separate thing, specifically because it is listed as a separate condition from 0hp for triggering reversion.

[Jlooney]

That much we got, but do you have a dead caster form? or a live one?

A live one. Wildshape says when you shift whatever your HP total is stays that way in your humanoid form. You gain full hp of your new form. When your new form reaches 0 or dies you go back to your original form including the hp you had before you shifted

[Perseus]

You deal with PWK long before you get the capstone. What about before the capstone? As I said, I think death is a separate thing, specifically because it is listed as a separate condition from 0hp for triggering reversion.

The capstone has nothing to do with not dying, just the capstone gives you a lot of defenses against spells like that since you can wildshape at will.

Caster: PWK
Druid: Reverts to normal form
Druid: Bonus Action Wildshape...

And so on...

I think the only way to kill a druid straight out while in wildshape for is to do massive damage (good luck). If you don't massive damage the wildshape (death) then the druid is still able to revert back. But once it gets that *death* tag then reverting will be a corpse.

*shrug*

Edit: Nope killing the form doesn't kill the druid since you revert back if the form dies...

But does that mean you are dead too?

Someone tweet Mike and have him deal with this.

They could have made this so much simpler, seriously what the hell...

[archaeo]

They could have made this so much simpler, seriously what the hell...

It's the same (perceived) problem as Beast Master: in order to include an iconic power, Mearls & Co. were forced to build up some goofy, counterintuitive rules, and fell somewhat short of perfection.

I parenthetically include "perceived" because, naturally, both Beast Master and Druid perform perfectly adequately if you're not constantly searching for corner cases in which the bugs in the rules come out and wreck things. Low level Beast Masters are perfectly capable of holding their own for the two levels in which they're training to fight alongside their beasts, a skill that nothing short of magic can attain short of a DM over-applying animal handling, and high-level Druids are in tons of danger from the creatures that will actually be attacking them, CR 20+ enemies who can do wild things that have nothing to do with HP.

[Perseus]

It's the same (perceived) problem as Beast Master: in order to include an iconic power, Mearls & Co. were forced to build up some goofy, counterintuitive rules, and fell somewhat short of perfection.

I parenthetically include "perceived" because, naturally, both Beast Master and Druid perform perfectly adequately if you're not constantly searching for corner cases in which the bugs in the rules come out and wreck things. Low level Beast Masters are perfectly capable of holding their own for the two levels in which they're training to fight alongside their beasts, a skill that nothing short of magic can attain short of a DM over-applying animal handling, and high-level Druids are in tons of danger from the creatures that will actually be attacking them, CR 20+ enemies who can do wild things that have nothing to do with HP.

No, both the Ranger and the Druid are both borked for the same reason.

The devs devalued powerful options and over valued weak options.

Capstone versus Capstone for a good example... Is the Moon Druid capstone (even with the desperate attempts at RAI being RAW rulings) equal to the Ranger's (+Wis to damage on an attack)? Hell no.

The same things happened in 3.0 you know, they over valued BAB and under valued Spells. Different teams but the same issue has occurred.

[archaeo]

The devs devalued powerful options and over valued weak options.

I honestly can't parse this sentence. "Devalued"? What does "value" mean here?


Capstone versus Capstone for a good example... Is the Moon Druid capstone (even with the desperate attempts at RAI being RAW rulings) equal to the Ranger's (+Wis to damage on an attack)? Hell no.

It's worth noting that comparing capstone abilities seems like a pretty poor decision anyway, given that the system makes absolutely no effort to keep class abilities "balanced" against each other on a level-by-level basis. The Ranger may have a relatively weak capstone, but it still has 19 other levels of abilities that are not at all bad.

[Eslin]

I honestly can't parse this sentence. "Devalued"? What does "value" mean here?



It's worth noting that comparing capstone abilities seems like a pretty poor decision anyway, given that the system makes absolutely no effort to keep class abilities "balanced" against each other on a level-by-level basis. The Ranger may have a relatively weak capstone, but it still has 19 other levels of abilities that are not at all bad.

Kind of a bad example considering we're talking about underwhelming: the class!

Your point holds up in general though, no-one cares about the wizard capstone being crap because the rest of the class is so useful.

[Invader]

I was thinking Polearm Master (which sentinel is the polearm master's choice in feats).

The horse does not have the physical ability to wield a polearm whereas the ape can. The ape would benefit from the feat due to the wording of wildshape. A horse could use sentinel within its reach (not sure what a horse's reach is) but the ape could use sentinel with a polearm.

And yes, ability score bonuses from feats are features of the feat and thus subject to be given to the beast/elemental form.

There is no other wording that makes sense. Wildshape doesn't say something like "you gain all class features except feats" now does it?

The difference between Toughness feat and class HD is just that. One is HP you get from your HD and the other is HP you get from a feat. They are not the same source. ASI could or could not fall under this same thought process, they are class features and not your base ability scores...

Therefore a Dwarven Druid with Wildshape would get a lot more HP for their beast/elemental forms than normal druids.

I'm not saying this is the balanced way to go or that its good for every DM but by RAW and by Coolness... It works.

That's your interpretation of RAW but that doesn't make it right. The toughness feat is general in that it works that way for classes. Wildshape specifically says you take the animals hit points. Your assumption is based on the class feature taking precedence over how wildshape works and mines the reverse. Again in this instance I specific trumps general.

[MaxWilson]

I honestly can't parse this sentence. "Devalued"? What does "value" mean here?

Definition (https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#sourceid=chrome-psyapi2&ie=UTF-8&q=devalue):

de·val·ue
dēˈvalyo͞o
verb
reduce or underestimate the worth or importance of.
"I resent the way people seem to devalue my achievement"
synonyms: belittle, depreciate, disparage, denigrate, decry, deprecate, treat lightly, discredit, underrate, undervalue, underestimate, deflate, diminish, trivialize, run down; More

[Sartharina]

By that reasoning if I take the athlete feat the point of strength I get is a class feature and I get to add it to my animals strength score. SOunds fair to me. Even attribute boosts could be added to wildshape, since they're class features.

Hitpoints from your Class HD+Con get overwritten by the Animal HD+Con, but you still add hit points from class features and feats.

[Perseus]

SOunds fair to me. Even attribute boosts could be added to wildshape, since they're class features.

Hitpoints from your Class HD+Con get overwritten by the Animal HD+Con, but you still add hit points from class features and feats.

I was about to write it out this way but this one beat me to it.

Since +2 bonus to AS is roughly equal to a feat (that was the plan...) I'm not sure why people are getting all worked up over this. Besides people who just want to make more of this than there is for the fun of it... I'm not sure how you can read what is on paper any other way.

The ASI can increase your ability score past 20 so if you choose a mammoth all those ASI (Strength) are useless. But it can bring a 16 strength beast up to 20.

[GiantOctopodes]

"You retain the benefits of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them in the new form"

Dwarven Bonus Hit Points: Race Feature
Toughness: Feat : Class Feature

I'm pretty sure HP is something that the new form can use...

Spellcasting: Class Feature. If in a Gorilla Form, I'm pretty sure that is something the new form can use. Except, it was explicitly called out as not being available while Wild Shaped, in the same way that HP and stats were specifically called out as being overridden. Specific beats general, so despite the general rule of being able to keep the benefit of class and race features, in these specific examples, their benefits do not apply to the new form, as its stats are independent of those of the caster. So no to both.

[Sartharina]

Gorillas may be able to ape the somatic components, but can't use any spell with a verbal component.

[MaxWilson]

Spellcasting: Class Feature. If in a Gorilla Form, I'm pretty sure that is something the new form can use. Except, it was explicitly called out as not being available while Wild Shaped, in the same way that HP and stats were specifically called out as being overridden. Specific beats general, so despite the general rule of being able to keep the benefit of class and race features, in these specific examples, their benefits do not apply to the new form, as its stats are independent of those of the caster. So no to both.

Note that per RAW you keep all abilities, but you can (obviously) use only those abilities which your new form is physically capable of using. E.g. you don't lose spellcasting in Gorilla form, you just can't perform the Verbal components. You could probably still cast Mislead or Hypnotic Pattern though.

Edit: I wonder how many captured wizards get their tongues cut out by their captors.

[Perseus]

Spellcasting: Class Feature. If in a Gorilla Form, I'm pretty sure that is something the new form can use. Except, it was explicitly called out as not being available while Wild Shaped, in the same way that HP and stats were specifically called out as being overridden. Specific beats general, so despite the general rule of being able to keep the benefit of class and race features, in these specific examples, their benefits do not apply to the new form, as its stats are independent of those of the caster. So no to both.

This below...


Gorillas may be able to ape the somatic components, but can't use any spell with a verbal component.


Also there is a class feature that let's you cast your spells in animal shape (used to be a feat) is still around. You don't lose your ability to cast and can even still concentrate on spells, your form just may not be able to.

Also this works... Cast tongues on the druid, druid wildshape to a gorilla, gorilla druid then casts call lightning.

[GiantOctopodes]

This below...




Also there is a class feature that let's you cast your spells in animal shape (used to be a feat) is still around. You don't lose your ability to cast and can even still concentrate on spells, your form just may not be able to.

Also this works... Cast tongues on the druid, druid wildshape to a gorilla, gorilla druid then casts call lightning.

Except you are then deliberately and willfully ignoring the text in Wildshape which states "You can't cast spells". The general limitation "You can't cast spells" is overridden by the specific allowance "Beginning in level 18, you can cast many of your Druid spells while in any shape you can assume using Wild Shape", which should be noted would allow a Druid/Wizard (why be a Druid 18/Wizard 2? Heck if I know) to cast their Druid spells, but not their Wizard spells.

Similarly, you are deliberately and willfully ignoring the text in Wildshape which states that "Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the Beast", and the text "When you transform, you assume the Beast's hit point totals and hit dice". That describes exactly, and in detail, how to handle stats and hit points. Sure, you get class and race features, but not when the exact same ability gives you specific instructions for how to handle those stats which would prevent those class features from applying.

[Safety Sword]

Except you are then deliberately and willfully ignoring the text in Wildshape which states "You can't cast spells". The general limitation "You can't cast spells" is overridden by the specific allowance "Beginning in level 18, you can cast many of your Druid spells while in any shape you can assume using Wild Shape", which should be noted would allow a Druid/Wizard (why be a Druid 18/Wizard 2? Heck if I know) to cast their Druid spells, but not their Wizard spells.

Similarly, you are deliberately and willfully ignoring the text in Wildshape which states that "Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the Beast", and the text "When you transform, you assume the Beast's hit point totals and hit dice". That describes exactly, and in detail, how to handle stats and hit points. Sure, you get class and race features, but not when the exact same ability gives you specific instructions for how to handle those stats which would prevent those class features from applying.

Stop reading the rules GiantOctopodes, you're ruining the fun of all these rules lawyers. :smallamused:

[archaeo]

Definition (https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#sourceid=chrome-psyapi2&ie=UTF-8&q=devalue):

de·val·ue
dēˈvalyo͞o
verb
reduce or underestimate the worth or importance of.
"I resent the way people seem to devalue my achievement"
synonyms: belittle, depreciate, disparage, denigrate, decry, deprecate, treat lightly, discredit, underrate, undervalue, underestimate, deflate, diminish, trivialize, run down; More

Max, I know what "devalued" means. I was asking for clarification on the sentence generally, with "value" being a key component thereof.

However, now, after a good nap, I think I see what he meant. I disagree with it, but I understand.

[MaxWilson]

Max, I know what "devalued" means. I was asking for clarification on the sentence generally, with "value" being a key component thereof.

However, now, after a good nap, I think I see what he meant. I disagree with it, but I understand.

Sorry if you thought I was being condescending. I figured you were just not a native English speaker, and might not have heard "value" used as a verb before, since you specifically said you couldn't "parse" it.

[archaeo]

Sorry if you thought I was being condescending. I figured you were just not a native English speaker, and might not have heard "value" used as a verb before, since you specifically said you couldn't "parse" it.

I would be a pretty funny ESL speaker if I could deploy "parse" without understanding "value." Maybe some kind of tech person, given the usage of "parse" in programming jargon? :smallbiggrin:

[Gwendol]

I was about to write it out this way but this one beat me to it.

Since +2 bonus to AS is roughly equal to a feat (that was the plan...) I'm not sure why people are getting all worked up over this. Besides people who just want to make more of this than there is for the fun of it... I'm not sure how you can read what is on paper any other way.

The ASI can increase your ability score past 20 so if you choose a mammoth all those ASI (Strength) are useless. But it can bring a 16 strength beast up to 20.

No, you can't. The beast statblock is unconditional and specific.

As I wrote in this thread: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?384392-Wildshape-tough-ability-score-debate/page2


Benefits from features are retained if the new form is physically capable.
Druid class features are:

Hitpoints
Proficiencies
Equipment
Druidic
Spellcasting
Wildshape (Duh!)
Druid circle
Ability score improvement
Timeless body
Beast spells
Archdruid

The rules for wildshape are that the game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the beast, i.e. the statblock, with the exception of the mental ability scores, and proficiencies from skills and saving throws. That means that the other ability scores, hitpoints, AC, speed, etc are all that of the beast. Ability score improvements, while being a class/race feature are not applied any more than Druid hit dice.

[Vulf]

What if you level up while in bear form?
If you look in a mirror can you always turn back into the bear you saw that had +2 Strength?

What happens if I use my Blood Hunter ability that reduces my current maximum hitpoints before I transform, and what happens if I do it while transformed?


oh, necromancy, lol.

[Dalebert]

"You retain the benefits of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them in the new form"

A fun one is that the devs have confirmed that a wood elf's Fleet of Foot is retained in wild shape meaning that if you turn into something with a speed less than 35, it becomes 35. I think it's absurd for a mouse to have a speed of 35 so I house-rule that if your form is slower than 35, it gets a boost of +5.


Second question: What happens when you have a wildshaped druid who gets (and fails) power word kill? Since it doesn't actually do damage, they just need to be at 100 or less hp, do they die? Or do they just fail the save, revert to being their normal self, and are fine?

It kills them. That was also confirmed by Mearls. I believe the quote was "dead is dead". Wild shape addresses reverting from being reduced to 0 hit points and says the attack that deals enough to reduce you to 0 reverts you and the remaining damage carries over to your original form (which may kill you). If you're subjected to an effect that causes you to be dead, you also revert, and your original form is still dead.