Acceleration in the Playground - The highest speed possible in one action

[(Un)Inspired]

Good evening guys and gals I've got a problem and I'm hoping you may be able to help.

I've got a BBEG whose base of operations is on the near side of the moon. They're a a large city on the far side of the moon. It's very important to him that no travel occurs between the moon and earth.

To that end he needs to be able to get into space and swat down any spacecraft with a well aimed disintegrate spell.

He would simply teleport into space to take care of business but in this setting there is no teleporting or planar travel whatsoever.

I need him to be able to get into space and cast disintegrate all in the space of a contingency spell.

Can any of you think of a way to get someone at least halfway to earth from the moon off of one contingency?

The BBEG vaguely has 20 wizard casting levels but his exact class make up isn't set in stone. Racially he's human.

Using any pathfinder or 3.5 material including dragon magazine is this possible? I'd prefer to avoid just persisting a time stop and flying out to the spaceship cause that's boring but otherwise I'm open to any suggestions.

Remember, no teleporting or planar travel whatsoever.

What have you guys got?

[frogglesmash]

Well there's the trick where dismiss a persisted Footsteps of the Divine (level 3 cleric spell) to allow yourself to you add 144000 ft to your move speed for one round (this allows you to move approx 55 miles in one round). I don't know if that gets you far enough or not but it seems like a good starting point.

[Honjuden]

Give him Great Cleave and a line of disposable minions to where he needs to go.

[frogglesmash]

Give him Great Cleave and a line of disposable minions to where he needs to go.

Or a commoner railgun.

[Venger]

Well there's the trick where dismiss a persisted Footsteps of the Divine (level 3 cleric spell) to allow yourself to you add 144000 ft to your move speed for one round (this allows you to move approx 55 miles in one round). I don't know if that gets you far enough or not but it seems like a good starting point.

outer space begins at 50 miles, so that's plenty to get off the moon.

do you need to reach the exact midpoint? that's about 120,000 miles which even with this trick is a bit out of your grasp.

[(Un)Inspired]

Ideally he would be fast enough to make it anywhere between earth and the moon but I understand that might not be possible.

A dismissed persisted footsteps of the divine doesn't take make him as fast as I'd like but it's nice to be reminded of it.

I'd rather avoid commoner railgunning.

[frogglesmash]

There's also this thread (http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/14505/can-characters-reach-mach-1-and-higher-in-dd-3-5) that mentions using the run feat with the aforementioned Footsteps of the Divine trick as well as what appears to be another much cheesier method to acquire a fly speed of 1,152,140 ft.

[Venger]

There's also this thread (http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/14505/can-characters-reach-mach-1-and-higher-in-dd-3-5) that mentions using the run feat with the aforementioned Footsteps of the Divine trick as well as what appears to be another much cheesier method to acquire a fly speed of 1,152,140 ft.

that's still "only" 218 miles.

[frogglesmash]

that's still "only" 218 miles.

Well, my plan B is to Iron Heart Surge the condition "not being halfway between the earth and the moon."

[Venger]

Well, my plan B is to Iron Heart Surge the condition "not being halfway between the earth and the moon."

that's probably what he'll end up doing in a game with no teleportation and planar travel. what a peculiar houserule.

[Phelix-Mu]

Consider maybe a different tact:

I am not expert with the spells, but there are a number of effects (half are psionic) that transfer one's mind (and casting ability) from one body to another.

So, perhaps have a clone or something in some kind of stasis at the halfway point. Contingency triggers the mind switch, you pop into the clone at the halfway point, BLAMMO, and then you'd probably need to do a bit of work to reset the trick. The key, as expected, is range, but the good news is that you are still on the Prime, just really far, so any of those "as long as it's on the same plane" stuff should work.

Alternatively, perhaps you can find a way to possess an object? I'm thinking it would be much easier to move an object around (like with a massive cannon) or something. Psion Uncarnate or Fiend of Possession are the two main ways I know of that involve that kind of thing.

Finally, maybe just a bunch of ice assassins in a perimeter line around the moon? Or is it vital that it be the BBEG himself doing the heavy lifting?

[Venger]

Consider maybe a different tact:

I am not expert with the spells, but there are a number of effects (half are psionic) that transfer one's mind (and casting ability) from one body to another.

So, perhaps have a clone or something in some kind of stasis at the halfway point. Contingency triggers the mind switch, you pop into the clone at the halfway point, BLAMMO, and then you'd probably need to do a bit of work to reset the trick. The key, as expected, is range, but the good news is that you are still on the Prime, just really far, so any of those "as long as it's on the same plane" stuff should work.

Alternatively, perhaps you can find a way to possess an object? I'm thinking it would be much easier to move an object around (like with a massive cannon) or something. Psion Uncarnate or Fiend of Possession are the two main ways I know of that involve that kind of thing.

Finally, maybe just a bunch of ice assassins in a perimeter line around the moon? Or is it vital that it be the BBEG himself doing the heavy lifting?

no problemo.

just make sure the clone has an acorn of far travel on his neck inside his stasis pod and you're standing within mind switch (or whatever)'s range of the oak tree when the trigger goes off. when you're done shooting laser beams or whatever, your clone (on the ground near the tree) can mind switch again (since you're treated as though you're right there) and then you can go about your affairs and leave him floating in space. maybe use psionic minor creation to leave him some chips or something while you're up there.

Or just ready an action to craft a club or quarterstaff. the crafting time is 0, so you can build an arbitrarily high ladder and just climb to space once you get your speed high enough somehow

[(Un)Inspired]

Hmmmmm interesting. I never thought about creating a ice assassin mine field. That would be pretty cool. It would take an unbelievable number of the to blanket that much space but I might do it anyway.

As far as mind switching goes, how would you go out setting the entire procedure into a contingency?

[Phelix-Mu]

Hmmmmm interesting. I never thought about creating a ice assassin mine field. That would be pretty cool. It would take an unbelievable number of the to blanket that much space but I might do it anyway.

As far as mind switching goes, how would you go out setting the entire procedure into a contingency?

Maybe some kind of trigger, like magic mouth or something. So...

If: X

Then: Trigger magic mouth.

The magic mouth in turn triggers a magical trap that does whatever it is that you decide to use. Or a series of traps. Or an ETF or something.

In fact, X could be another series of magical detection devices going off. So...

If: detection device alarm sounds

Then: trigger magic mouth.

I am far from expert on contingency, though, so I'm not clear how to word it, but you should be able to link to secondary effects somehow.

Frankly, I'd probably make it into some big lesser artifact or something designed to provide orbital defense.

In fact, you could just have some kind of super-long range defense cannon (ever seen Scrapped Princess) that has some kind of ritual where lower-level minions are always plugged into it, powering it with spells/SLAs/life force/w/e. Ships or people approach, and get shot down by destiny breaker some giant artillery fire.

[Darrin]

He's no Chuck, but I did come up with a build that can break Mach 2 on foot (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17943699&postcount=115). Add the fly like an arrow spell for another x10, and that's... Mach 20 maybe?

Actually, instead of contingency, maybe use divinations. First thing every day: "Is anyone besides me going to travel to the moon today?" If yes, then narrow it down to a more specific time, and then get to the intercept point however you like.

[Telonius]

EDIT: n/m, didn't read the full post...

[Der_DWSage]

Hm. Perhaps we're looking at this from the wrong perspective-he doesn't need to physically be there to swat down threats, he just needs to be able to cast spells from/to anywhere. My 3.5-fu is weak, but surely there are spells akin to Project Image that he could make use of. Or some kind of variant on a Crystal Ball that lets him make use of a small subset of spells.

Further alternatively, I believe there were rules from Planescape for allowing Dragons to travel through space. Just guard your moon base with dragons, because that's pretty awesome.

By all means, keep trying to find out how to go subliminal without epic-level cheese. I'm just tossing out alternative options.

[Zirconia]

He's no Chuck, but I did come up with a build that can break Mach 2 on foot (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17943699&postcount=115). Add the fly like an arrow spell for another x10, and that's... Mach 20 maybe?

Yeah, Mach 20 isn't even quite orbital speed for the Earth, that is why you need really good heat shields to reenter, you are doing more like Mach 25 when you come down. Moon to half way to Earth (120,000 miles) trip time at that speed is not terrible, mind you, about 8 hours.

Another suggestion is to make one slight modification to the Telekinesis spell, remove the line about the "up to 20 feet per round". If, as I suspect, you are trying for a somewhat more "realistic" feel for your BBEG on the moon game, just let Telekinesis apply force like it should, rather than apply a velocity. At 1 "gee" acceleration, i.e. the force of one gravity on earth, you reach the earth/moon halfway point at right around 104 minutes. Trip times around the solar system are surprisingly short if you can accelerate/decelerate the whole time.

Be cautious with this if you have the sort of player who will want to use it to make hypervelocity strikes, you may want to rule that if they aren't standing on the object it just does the described damage in the spell for simplicity.

[ben-zayb]

Maybe have a Dragonwrought Kobold Hulking Hurler cohort with the Distant Shot feat throw you into outer space?

[Tarlek Flamehai]

Create Portal feat.

[With a box]

Wouldn't total cover it with a sheet of paper block disintegrate once?
Take 20 cover sheets (and invisiblity)
True seeing is only see 120ft far

[(Un)Inspired]

Unfortunately the create portal feat doesn't give me the freedom of location that this villain requires.

I believe I'm going to skip using a hulking hurler space gun for thematic reasons.

I need to look up the Fly like an Arrow spell it's from a Deagon Mag right?

I appreciate the telekinesis suggestion and while the spell should function in that manner, I'd like to pull this off with zero house rules if possible.

This guy can't have anything dangerous with any degree of autonomy flying around in space so I can't use the awesome dragons idea.

I suppose I should have mentioned this in the OP but the actions of free agents are indeterministic in this setting so using divination to read the future doesn't work as well as is it would in a typical D&D setting.

So far my villain has set up basically constant divinations on the far side of the moon to see if they make any launch attempts.

Thank you all for your interesting responses so far. It has all been spectacular food for thought and I am a glutton.

EDIT: oh also I'm defining free agent as any rational animal. I know that this opens up its own host of problems as does the declaration that there are indeterministic agents but I'm trying to ignore them and move forward with the game regardless.

[Hamste]

Hmm, if he has near infinite cash he can make enough pearls of power to cast enough time stops to walk there.

If limited on that grab as many rods of greater maximize and pearls of power. That atleast will give him multiple turns to get there.

[gooddragon1]

I know of only one thing that fast on foot: pun-pun.

Technically this works though...

Shapechange into the sarrukh
Manipulate form on yourself to grant an ability
There's certainly a way to reach infinite movespeed but none come to mind at the moment
No teleportation involved...

[Dondasch]

I know of only one thing that fast on foot: pun-pun.

Technically this works though...

Shapechange into the sarrukh
Manipulate form on yourself to grant an ability
There's certainly a way to reach infinite movespeed but none come to mind at the moment
No teleportation involved...

If you argue details, Kezef the Chaos Hound from Champions of Ruin teleports without errorgreater teleports through the mechanism of moving very fast (not actual teleportation).

[Venger]

I know of only one thing that fast on foot: pun-pun.

Technically this works though...

Shapechange into the sarrukh
Manipulate form on yourself to grant an ability
There's certainly a way to reach infinite movespeed but none come to mind at the moment
No teleportation involved...

Sure, but you still need to find what abilities to copy first.

here's (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=13532.0) the handbook since no one linked it yet. should be able to cobble together some stuff for your guy without punpun.


If you argue details, Kezef the Chaos Hound from Champions of Ruin teleports without errorgreater teleports through the mechanism of moving very fast (not actual teleportation).

unfortunately, he's got 28HD, so is outside shapechange's (normal) cap. if you have some way of nudging it up by 3, then this is a viable option.

however, since OP's dm has houseruled "no teleports" I think it's likely to be banhammered as well.

[Magesmiley]

Hmmm. I can't think of anything off the top of my head in the core rules. Perhaps a custom bit of magic. Since you've ruled out teleportation and planar travel, maybe something that transforms him into something that can go very fast.

Maybe a custom polymorph spell that turns him into a living beam of light for a round or so? (I don't think polymorph any object is going to cut it.) There'd be issues if he was in a completely enclosed space (unless there was a window he could go through), but even if he had to look around for bit, a beam of light can move pretty quick (186,282 miles per second).

Kind of a teleport without actually teleporting.

[Dondasch]

unfortunately, he's got 28HD, so is outside shapechange's (normal) cap. if you have some way of nudging it up by 3, then this is a viable option.

however, since OP's dm has houseruled "no teleports" I think it's likely to be banhammered as well.

Reserves of Strength feat, Dragonlance Campaign Setting. Definitely raises the CL cap by 3. And the teleport thing really depends on the fluff-- my suggestion banks on it being "planar connections are broken" rather than "teleportation is not a thing".

[Venger]

Reserves of Strength feat, Dragonlance Campaign Setting. Definitely raises the CL cap by 3. And the teleport thing really depends on the fluff-- my suggestion banks on it being "planar connections are broken" rather than "teleportation is not a thing".

That only boosts your CL, so you'd be casting at CL 28, but the hardcap for HD would remain at 25, same as a spell like polymorph. Even if you cast it at above CL 15, you can't take forms with more than 15 HD since it's a separate clause in the spell text.

While that may be true as far as fluff goes, I don't think it's very likely a DM who said "no teleporting" will allow greater teleport as a SLA even if the book says "but he's not really teleporting" since it was likely a decision made for mechanical and not fluff-oriented reasons.

[Dondasch]

That only boosts your CL, so you'd be casting at CL 28, but the hardcap for HD would remain at 25, same as a spell like polymorph. Even if you cast it at above CL 15, you can't take forms with more than 15 HD since it's a separate clause in the spell text.

Saith the SRD on Shapechange: "The assumed form cannot have more than your caster level in Hit Dice (to a maximum of 25 HD)."
Quoth the Dragonlance Campaign Setting on Reserves of Strength: "You can exceed the normal level-fixed limits of a spell with this feat..."

The max HD is normally a level-fixed limit, just like 10d6 Fireballs. You can squeeze out 3 extra HD with this feat.


While that may be true as far as fluff goes, I don't think it's very likely a DM who said "no teleporting" will allow greater teleport as a SLA even if the book says "but he's not really teleporting" since it was likely a decision made for mechanical and not fluff-oriented reasons.

Well, I don't know the DM, so I felt it worth mentioning.

[(Un)Inspired]

I'm the DM. Technically teleporting and all forms of planar travel have been shut down SO while there was teleporting in the setting none of in works anymore.

That saud, something that is mechanically based off of teleporting but is flavorfully different might be usable. Shapechange and reserves of strength are definitely tools in this guys belt and I've ruled reserves of strength to break level caps for the party so far. Whats good for the goose is good for the BBEG right?

Venger, Thank you so much for linking the Speed Handbook, I'm reading it right now.

[Venger]

I'm the DM. Technically teleporting and all forms of planar travel have been shut down SO while there was teleporting in the setting none of in works anymore.

That saud, something that is mechanically based off of teleporting but is flavorfully different might be usable. Shapechange and reserves of strength are definitely tools in this guys belt and I've ruled reserves of strength to break level caps for the party so far. Whats good for the goose is good for the BBEG right?

Venger, Thank you so much for linking the Speed Handbook, I'm reading it right now.

Right, I just wasn't sure how you'd rule. If that form of teleport is allowed and you've ruled RoS to break the shapechange cap, Kezef the chaos hound is on p144 of champions of ruin.

you're welcome.

[(Un)Inspired]

Awesome I just took a look at the pooch in champions of ruin. Shapechanging into it is perfect. Contingency Celerity Timestop into a shapechange followed by Kezef's non-linear travel totally fits how this guy would operate. Beautiful simply Beautiful.

It's gonna be a very long time before my players even attempt to get at this guy on the moon but before they do, I'm running a modified, updated Expedition to the barrier peaks in which the spaceship is from the farside of the moon that my BBEG caused to crash a few decades ago.

I love this forum. Thanks for the help everyone.

[Venger]

Awesome I just took a look at the pooch in champions of ruin. Shapechanging into it is perfect. Contingency Celerity Timestop into a shapechange followed by Kezef's non-linear travel totally fits how this guy would operate. Beautiful simply Beautiful.

It's gonna be a very long time before my players even attempt to get at this guy on the moon but before they do, I'm running a modified, updated Expedition to the barrier peaks in which the spaceship is from the farside of the moon that my BBEG caused to crash a few decades ago.

I love this forum. Thanks for the help everyone.

Sounds like a plan. let us know how it works out.