How do you play a Low-Wis Chaotic Neutral and not be Chaotic Stupid.

[Dark Kerman]

Hi all,

I've got a character I'm building at the moment, who's a Changeling Factotum in an E6 campaign.

Due to backstory (He's lived a life mostly free of consequences), various setting based issues (He has a birthsign that makes his wis low) and that, hey, I had to put the dump stat somewhere that made sense, he has a wisdom of 5.

All things considered, I'm unsure how I can play such an impulsive changeable character in such a way that isn't "****s and giggles, just because".

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

DK

[Gwendol]

He could just be very inattentive, perhaps have difficulties in social settings (can't read peoples emotions or guess intentions). Doesn't have to be stupid.

[Dark Kerman]

Hmm, perhaps, though he's maxing out on Sense Motive and is going to be the party face. I can justify his backstory overall (tons of personas, some who work together such as one assassinating the other to improve his assassin personas rep etc), it's the day to day stuff really.

I guess just making him flighty with very poor attention would be a start.

[Gwendol]

Sounds like a good plan!

[Heikold]

It might be worth pointing out that Wisdom is associated with sanity and that insane characters or races (such as the Derro) have hefty Wisdom penalties.

Considering the character is already Chaotic Neutral, which seems like the obvious alignment for a character who is severely mentally ill, have you considered explaining it that way? There's no reason for him to be stupid, but explain away really bad spot and listen checks as him hallucinating or give him OCD and have him constantly counting the number of steps he's taken between places which makes him constantly distracted.

Actually... you mention him having many personas. Have you considered going the whole hog and making that into fully fledged multiple personality disorder complete with internal arguments that might lead to why his Wisdom comes across as so low?

[Red Fel]

All things considered, I'm unsure how I can play such an impulsive changeable character in such a way that isn't "****s and giggles, just because".

Luna Lovegood.

Admittedly, she's more CG than CN, but the premise is there. Here is a character who is sweetly oblivious, whimsical, and perhaps a bit scatter-brained; calling her "eccentric" would be charitable. That doesn't mean she's stupid (she's in Ravenclaw, after all), it just means her mind processes things differently, and that she has a different (some would say alien) outlook on the world.

That's what you go for. Have a character who is easily distractable, fascinated by simple things, and open to any possibility (some would call that gullible). He's friendly, but not terribly deep. He's social and pleasant, and perhaps well-read or skilled, but he's so open to new ideas that he doesn't seem to appreciate that some things just aren't true. As a result of being receptive to absolutely everything, he's easily distracted, and readily goes off on tangents. As a side-effect, he also has no personal filter, and is freely expressive - not in an offensive way, but in a bizarre way. (Contrast the CN who takes this as license to say to the fat pirate, "Wow, fatty, why are you so fat?" with "My goodness, have you learned to harness Gonnfrabbles to disperse your body weight? A salesman in our last town was telling me about them...")

You're not doing things for S'n'Gs, you're doing things because you find them genuinely fascinating. You find everything genuinely fascinating.

Now, if you want to turn him into a person who adopts many disguises, you might consider it an extension of that. Basically, he adopts new faces because they're all new experiences. "I wonder what it would be like to be a dwarf," for instance. Just keep in mind that he would likely suffer from poor judgment, and might forget about his disguise, unless the party was able to keep him on task.

[Eisenheim]

Wisdom goes for so many things that you can choose what element of low wisdom to play up. Consider playing him as weak-willed and easily led or convinced, rather than rash and impulsive in his own right, for instance. It seems to me that chaotic neutral can play as a simple lack on firm conviction as easily as a more actively random style.

[Dark Kerman]

Hi all,

Thanks for the suggestions, I'm liking where this is going. :smallsmile:

I especially like Red Fels suggestion as to where it's going. I know he's socially tactful, but aside from that I can totally see him as being "I love this! I love that! Oh wow! Flowers!". Also bonus points on the Dwarf part, I was literally about to write that into his backstory. :smalltongue:

Thought I might just put down the character sheet and backstory (thus far) to give an idea where I'm going at with him/her.

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=978666

Backstory (Work in progress and Hella big. He's going to have some serious stories to never tell)

https://docs.google.com/document/d/19X1eyLLIdnLWB9Y9zQwyoslVPthB5nCZo7REUytSEaM/edit?usp=sharing

Edit - Oop, wrong link, there we go.

[Vhaidara]

+1 to Red Fel, as usual on RP advice. The man has a real grasp on it.

Another point if you are planning to be the party face: Remember that skills represent training/practice more than natural talent. Your character is not naturally skilled at reading people. It's a skill he had to learn. He struggled to learn it.

[Dark Kerman]

@Keledrath

That's... A very good point actually. He's practiced at it, but for a changeling he's sort of crap at reading people... Heck, for a human he's still pretty bad. That's definitely in the backstory. Maybe he only reads them well as a sort of conscious effort?

[weckar]

Going the other way, this combination can also express itself as complete paranoia. This would require some reflection on the character's part, but if they are aware of their own obliviousness they will start doubting and suspecting everything. Even when there is no reason to do so.

[Zaq]

I played a 6 WIS character not long ago. I just had him be incredibly trusting—it just didn't occur to him that people might have ulterior motives for things, or that people who weren't literally menacing us might not be 100% on our side. If you asked him a question, he'd pretty much answer it straight away, rather than thinking about whether it might not be the best idea to let some of that information go, because after all, these are trustworthy people asking the question, right?

[Sam K]

CN low wis party face? Sounds like a rock star to me.

Think of someone who is so smooth and slick and good at bull**** that they get away with stupid ideas quite often. The kind of person who overpromises because "Don't worry, I got this!" and talks their way out of it... most of the time, but sometimes gets the party in trouble. Possibly weak willed, especially when it comes to temptation. Low wis and high sense motive could manifest in that he knows when people are bull****ting him, but still sometimes gives in to them because he really WANTS it to be true.

This could be a fun character to play, but with some tragic underlaying personality traits (party all night and pull off crazy stunts because he really wants to be accepted, and being "cool" is the only thing that has worked for him thus far).

[Flickerdart]

A Wis 5 CN character isn't dumb, he's just not investigative. Spot, Listen, and Sense Motive penalties mean that he takes things at face value, and you can justify that with his alignment by saying that he simply doesn't care enough. Someone said something? Probably true, but it's boring and who cares. He's looking for a hidden enemy? Sweeps the room with a glance, he's not there, let's move on to the next thing in life.

[Magesmiley]

Another take to low Wisdom is not strong in the common sense department.

If you've got a decent intelligence you might also try playing this as a person with a lot of book learning who has trouble applying it to the real world.