Creating Large Dungeons

[ThisIsZen]

My games thus far have only featured a few encounters because of the nature of how the game is starting (low-level city politics, but it's building towards some truly horrendous revelations that will drag the players out into the wilderness). I get the general idea of how to create at-level and challenging encounters, but what I'm not certain about is large dungeons.

How do you design a large, explorable space which should have more than 4 encounters, while keeping the fights interesting? It seems to me that a bunch of reduced-CR encounters would eventually get tiresome, while multiple of-CR or higher encounters would quickly leave the party drained, which means if there's some sort of boss at the end he can't be built assuming maximum resources on the party's side.

Basically, how do you design that one BBEG's sprawling keep, or an enormous subterranean tunnel system, or an insect hive and so on and keep the fights interesting without just draining your players completely due to attrition? Note, I'm assuming things like Rope Trick aren't available, either because the casters don't have it or time constraints prevent it, 'cause "have a caster who can cast spells that let people rest" is not exactly an ideal solution here.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Lengthy dungeons and tight time constraints can make it somewhere between extremely difficult and impossible for an average party to actually win the day cleanly. The trick is to go in assuming that they'll fail to finish in time and hope they aren't so foolish as to get themselves killed trying. A deus ex machina to yank their butts out of the fire is an option but an unpopular one.


Now, onto large dungeons in and of themselves.

First thing's first; decide why the "dungeon" is there, i.e. is it a fortification that was built as a garrison? a warren dug out by underground dwelling people? a natural cave system? This matters for determining the "dugeon's" layout. Arrange the layout logically based on what the "dungeon" is. Once you've got the place built you can drop your encounters into it. The only trick to making it survivable is to make sure the PC's know that they're going to be cut-off from readily available resources for at least a few days and prepare accordingly. Then just make sure there are a few fortifiable places in the dungeon where they can rest after a touch of preparation. It's not your job to make sure they survive, just that your dungeon is survivable. Dungeonscape goes into all of this in exceptional detail.

[AttilaTheGeek]

This question also applies to running large premade dungeons. I'm a new DM looking through an AP (Rise of the Runelords), and I'm not sure how to handle a dungeon with 20+ CR 4-5 encounters (Thistletop) that a level 3 party is supposed to be able to survive.

[Coidzor]

The simple thing is that if it's a large dungeon then they're *not* expected to get it in one sweep without resting at all unless they're quite high level and are able to obviate or bypass most of the limiters on daily staying power in one way or another.

So if you've got a large dungeon, don't make it so that it's able to perfectly communicate unless they actually have good basis for doing so, like a Formian Hive City where they wouldn't want to try resting inside of anyway, but would be basically trying to get in, do something, and then get out again rather than completely clearing it out.

You gotta afford them with defensible rest spots where it's safer even if you do use some level of wandering monsters.

[Kelb_Panthera]

The simple thing is that if it's a large dungeon then they're *not* expected to get it in one sweep without resting at all unless they're quite high level and are able to obviate or bypass most of the limiters on daily staying power in one way or another.

So if you've got a large dungeon, don't make it so that it's able to perfectly communicate unless they actually have good basis for doing so, like a Formian Hive City where they wouldn't want to try resting inside of anyway, but would be basically trying to get in, do something, and then get out again rather than completely clearing it out.

You gotta afford them with defensible rest spots where it's safer even if you do use some level of wandering monsters.

This, seriously.


Large dungeon complexes aren't a one day affair. You run through three or four encounters then fortify your position and rest for 8-9 hours befor you sortie again. A DM -can- use a wave design whereby 8-9 encounters worth of low CR foes come at the party in shortish succession in an endurance run kinda thing. It's tough but it can be fun unless your players like to nova then fully recharge between encounters.

[OldTrees1]

Note that the move and fortify technique works even for dungeons that do have perfect communication. It just makes the nights(defending the fortification) and the dawns(breaking out of the fortification) more difficult.

[Lightlawbliss]

My favorite large dungeons to make are water erosion made tunnels and caverns. It is easy to draw by hand or computer and it takes very little effort to make tactically interesting locations.

[GreenZ]

I have created a few such 'multi-part' dungeons (with varying success) and my most successful GM tactics include:


1. Soft 'Time Limits'

Create a situation in which the party wants to progress as quickly as possible but are not forced to continue onward. Flexible timelines such as 'you know the BBEG is away for a few days and can raid his dungeon before he returns' means that the party will want to clear all of the encounters without forcing themselves to continue to their death. If the party is going a bit slow, obviously the BBEG took longer, and if the party mops up the dungeon by morning, obviously the BBEG was only away for the night.

This also creates a delicate 'stop wasting time' button for when the party faffs about the dungeon for too long. If they want to clear every room then rest for the night they get to meet multiple encounters plus the BBEG once the BBEG shows back up.


2. Uninterested Enemies

The enemies only attack or care about the party when they are nearby. Many cave or generally large empty space filled dungeons work wonderfully for this as most creatures will not actively attack the party unless the party encroaches on their territory. Have a random encounter table of weak encounters, or at least make it seem like you have one, so that the party has to think about their security overnight but can rest.


3. 'Safe' Havens

Make an obvious place for the party to simply rest at, even if only once. The prison cells can become a good night's rest disguised as prisoners and covered by the other prisoners in the area; there might be slaves willing to hide the party in a small room for the night; or let the party find a room that nobody will ever enter for whatever reason (A barred room with a haunt in it works wonderfully once the haunt is cleared.)

Even if the BBEG is looking for the party, they will not find them (at least, the first time.) The party will still likely need a watch during the night but can otherwise rest without worry and continue their delve the next morning. And again, make the party at least think about their security; whether due to random encounters or not complete trust of whomever is willing to help them; this can lead to moments in which the party makes rash decisions based solely on paranoia.


4. Limited Supply Dungeon

Make it obvious the party cannot stay safe inside the dungeon while trying to rest, but allow access to and from the dungeon each day. Maybe the dungeon is outside of a town, and each day the party faces new (and different) guards and enemies in the dungeon until there are no enemies remaining. Keep track of the number and types of enemies in the place and reposition them each day; while the guards with spear were holding the gate one day the pack of dire-wolfs and their ranger are used as guards the next because the old guards are dead.

This can play out in two ways, either a kind of siege of the location in which the enemies 'wise up' after the first few days and prepare a more solid defense as time goes on (followed by searching the entire place once all the enemies are dead). Or a more relaxed, 'filling' dungeon in which encounters simply fill the space as old encounters die, allowing for a more encounter filled exploration of the location.

[Yahzi]

Holing up in one of the cleared rooms and resting/regaining spells is a time-honored tradition of dungeon delving.