Paladin's Charisma dependency

[Tarvil]

Hello,

My playgroup needed another guy with weapon in party, so I decided to try paladin (Oath of the Ancients as I like flavour of "Green Knight"). I started to plan optimal feat combination and found out, that I can't have three feats* and 20 Charisma at the same time. I'm thinking about throwing out Resilience, but I have no idea how important is that save in 5 ed.

So here is my question, what is more important, proficiency in CON saves or better bonus from CHA stat? Or maybe I shouldn't take dmg oriented feat, and have both? It's important, as I'm not sure about my final CON stat (odd number or even).

* CON Resilience, Sentinel and Polearm Master/Great Weapon Master/etc

PS: I'm sorry for my english, I'm not really good at languages ;)

[MaxWilson]

Is this point-buy or 4d6 drop lowest?

You can certainly have a variant human who starts with a 15 Charisma, boosted to 16, and then gets +2 Charisma twice. He'll have four feats to spare, three of which can be Resilient(Con)/Sentinel/Polearm Master, thus leaving one feat free for +2 STR (total 18 STR).

P.S. No apologies needed for your English. Many people speak other languages on the Internet. Besides, your English is just fine.

[Tarvil]

It's point buy. We don't really like rolling stats.

I didn't plan to have STR stat lower than 20. It seems quite crucial to have this maxed.

[MaxWilson]

Ah, I see your problem then. You're right, you can't max both STR and CHA and still have three feats. You could probably drop Resilient (Con) and be okay. You could drop Sentinel too, or even Great Weapon Mastery. All three options will have some impact on the smartest way to play your character at runtime, but all three are viable builds. Personally I'd probably drop Sentinel and Resilient (Con) in order to get Lucky, but if I had lots of other melee characters in the party I'd keep Sentinel and drop GWM.

[OldTrees1]

Go through and choose your spells prepared per day. Then check the relative importance of Cha/Str/Con for how you would play Paladin.

Lots of Concentration spells? Get Con Proficiency(Starting as a Fighter might not be a bad alternative to Resilience)

Lots of Smites? Get Str 20.

Lots of Saving Throw spells? Get Cha 20.

Edit: Starting as a Fighter gives you all 3 as a Fighter 1 / Paladin 19 but you lose your Paladin Capstone.

[Hytheter]

While CON Resilience certainly couldn't hurt, I don't think it's that crucial when you get Charisma to all saves at level 6 anyway.

[Slipperychicken]

While CON Resilience certainly couldn't hurt, I don't think it's that crucial when you get Charisma to all saves at level 6 anyway.

Playing a paladin at the moment, I kind of feel the same way. I only have Con 14 on him, but Charisma 16 to all saves will bump Con saves up to +5. If I ever do take Resilient(Con), I'd push it back to level 12 at least.


Also, what do you guys think of that aura of protection bonus applying to charisma saves too? By my reading, it should mean the paladin's charisma saves are made at Cha+Cha+Proficiency.

It does make the save high, but I'm not worried because there aren't many charisma saves in the game. Also, most of them relate to things which Paladins shouldn't have a problem with, such as possession by demons and spellcasters.

[OldTrees1]

Also, what do you guys think of that aura of protection bonus applying to charisma saves too? By my reading, it should mean the paladin's charisma saves are made at Cha+Cha+Proficiency.

It does make the save high, but I'm not worried because there aren't many charisma saves in the game. Also, most of them relate to things which Paladins shouldn't have a problem with, such as possession by demons and spellcasters.

Yes, I think it is Chax2+Prof.

My gut reaction was no since it would set a dangerous "add stat multiple times" precedent. So I searched for confirmation of my gut reaction*. Since I did not find any evidence it did not stack and there seemed no balance reason to exclude it in this case, I became convinced that yes it does apply to Cha saves.



*Yeah. I looked for verification rather than falsification like I should have.

[Felvion]

It seems to me that resilience is the one to drop but it also depends on your con score... If the +1 would make it an even number thats more to take into account.

[silveralen]

Also worth mentioning is that paladin isn't really cha dependent. It's actually pretty easy to play a paladin without using any saving throw spells, focusing instead on buffs and normal smites.

Cha is good for a paladin, especially with his saving throw bonus, but leaving it at 18 won't hurt you the way it would a full caster. It just requires a slight change to your tactics.

[Slipperychicken]

It might help to figure out what each one gets you, then decide what would be more useful to your character.

Resilience(Con) [assuming level 6 and odd Con score]

+4 to Constitution saving throws (3 from proficiency, 1 from con increase)


Charisma Bump

1 more spell prepared
1 more use of Divine Sense
+1 to Str, Dex, Con, Int, and Wis saving throws
+2 to Charisma saving throws
+1 to allies' saving throws within 10ft
+1 to save DCs
+1 to Charisma skills

[Tarvil]

Thanks guy, I will stick with 18 CHA and Resilient, as Oath of the Ancients don't have really good Save or Suck spells, unlike Vengeance.