OOTS #430 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[A Large Bear]

I knew he was the real Xykon! Smite Unbeliever! Awesome strip, first panel made me joygasm.

[slayerx]

Your that guy... with the thing... and the skin... who does the thing with the thing... who said that thing... HA ^^

Brilliant and Hilarious!

[Pokemaster]

Well, Roy couldn't beat the Fortitude Save DC for nausea, but he made his save for Finger of Death.

Kinda makes you think, doesn't it?

[Archaicwonder]

That is a beautiful, beautiful first panel. That moment is exactly what I try and mentally create in at least the most epic of my gaming fights. Sweet art Rich!

[rat_bastard]

Finally, a rematch! nice!

Love the things going on in the strip lately can't wait for Miko to be set free by some plot line or other. Good stuff all around.

[Axl_Rose]

Aww I feel sorry for the dragon

[Bluefin]

Heh, is it wrong I laughed at the guy getting puked on?
And the first panel was absolutely beautiful. And the last panel was absolutely awesome. Hope Roy can stay on. Just ask Wander, it's not easy.

[Wooter]

Huh. I was hoping for something a little more conclusive. Oh well.

[The Wanderer]

Xykon is so fricken hilarious. :smallbiggrin:

All the same, go Roy! Kick some bony undead ass!

[katzklaw]

that first panel is absolutely awsome. beautiful. and the rest of the strip... hilarious! XD

[BenjCano]

I registered just in time, it looks like.

Cloud Strife, Roy is not. He needs to have hit his limit break like ten turns ago, seriously.

Very nice touch with Xykon's punchline, though. And the first panel was breathtaking.

[Ailurus]

I feel kind of sorry for that paladin though. Might die with honor, but I think his dignity is in negative HP right now.

[Innis Cabal]

youll just have to wait for monday....and awsome...just awsome

[Blood]

I liked it! Awesome first splash panel of Roy leaping through the air with the sun in the background, and more than one punchline. Awesome!

[Andiamo]

Loved the first panel. Amazing.

[Blackdrop]

BRAVO. Awesome strip Rich. The first part is sooooo sweet.

[MReav]

Wow, Roy successfully made a save. That's what, the first time this comic? (I don't mind being proven wrong, but mind providing the link?)

[TigerHunter]

Pure gold.

[PaladinBoy]

Great use of the recurring punchline.

Loved the reference to Star Trek!

[TigerHunter]

Anyone else notice that the guy getting barfed on still has the angry look?

[The_Chilli_God]

I should mention this. In the tenth panel, isn't there meant to be a speech bubble where someone (presumably Roy) says "GAH!"
Edit: Nevermind, you fixed it. Yay.

Otherwise, very good as always.

[Duffren]

Very impressive. And Xykon still cant remember anything.

[Ettlesby]

Heheh, sweet. Xykon is completely awesome. But I'm sure we all knew that.

[MReav]

Anyone else notice that the guy getting barfed on still has the angry look?

Hey, you're right. Now that's stoicism.

Man, Roy, you couldn't aim for the bleedin' Hobbos?

Still think Death Ward would have been a good idea.

Wait, why not GODSDAMNIT!?

[pendejochy]

I think it is a little odd that the guy getting puked on has the same expression he had in the previous panel. You'd think he'd look surprised or something. But maybe that was intentional.^^

[Solmage]

Go Roy! Scratch his dragon! Show him who's the boss!

Erm wait.. scratch.. a dragon.. oy. :smalleek:

[Amotis]

The zombie dragon is pretty oblivious, ain't he? Same expression.

[TigerHunter]

I want Panel 1 as my desktop.

[Tomada]

Rich you interview, this comic...

Things that only makes you more amazing in our eyes.

Thanks

[Jalathas]

First panel needs to be made into one of those things... that go behind the things on the thing when you use... something...

[mdvk1012]

:xykon: You're that guy! The one who kept getting pissed off at me for not remembering...something.Truly awesome. Sinister, yet completely ignorant!

[The Wanderer]

The zombie dragon is pretty oblivious, ain't he? Same expression.

Well, zombies only have so many expressions. :smallwink:

[Late Shift]

Truly awesome. Sinister, yet completely ignorant!

Best line on the strip :)

[Kesnit]

:xykon: Do you know what the insurance premiums are this are?

I really thought :roy: would fall off when he got sick.

Will :xykon: finally remember who :roy: is? Will :roy: manage to pull himself back onto the dragon's back? How hard is it to get vomit out of plate mail? :smallsmile:

Stay turned Monday...

[Professor Tanhauser]

Just WTF does xykon get off calling Roy "Baldy"? I mean, roy has more on his head that xykon does, ad in a scalp.

[WNxArrakis]

Good GOD what a little lens flare could do for the strip.

Perfect use, Rich!

[Late Shift]

Is Xykon a female? He seems to be riding side saddle...

[Kesnit]

Is Xykon a female? He seems to be riding side saddle...

He is wearing mage's robes. They probably make it hard to sit astride

[Tawkis]

Now that sir was the greatest opening panel ever.

I spent 5 minutes just admiring the splendor. Well a good 2 minutes anyways

[geez3r]

Oh poor Roy, after doing all this, he still won't remember you...

[Silveralex]

Just thought I'd post my first post to say what a great battle its turning out to be and thanks for giving me a new wallpaper :smallcool:

[Cisalpine]

you'd think the crown, at the very least, would tip him off.

[Late Shift]

He is wearing mage's robes. They probably make it hard to sit astride

Good point

[Suraht]

:xykon: Unholy crap!

Xykon not remembering Roy is the best running gag ever.

[Gleanerizer]

Xykon hasn't even noticed his own crown dangling from Roy's neck. Somebody really needs a prescription for Ritalin.

[Sliverghost]

classic battle starting pose lol nice, great comic

[Aquillion]

This fight would go a lot better for Roy if he'd remembered to have Durkon cast Disruption on his sword again.

[MReav]

That Dragon is either not a Zombie, given how bleedin' maneuverable it is, or it's using a fly spell for its maneuvers.


This fight would go a lot better for Roy if he'd remembered to have Durkon cast Disruption on his sword again.

I think someone explained to Durkon that that only works on creatures with less HD than him.

[AtomicKitKat]

LOL. Still can't remember his name, although he sorta got it right last strip.

[poptartmini]

Heh, is it wrong I laughed at the guy getting puked on?
It is in fact absolutely right that you laughed.
And Rich, that first panel would make a beautiful wallpaper. Perhaps w/ some background, like the battlements of the city just visible below them

[MReav]

Ooh!! Art mistake, art mistake! Dragon Mount is missing the big gash in the first panel!

Also, isn't the big gash supposed to be after the big purple bruise?

[arkwei]

So, hmm, sorry, but I found a mistake again.

In the very inspiring and very well done (no sarcasm, it is good) first panel, the dragon's neck wound is missing. In the second panel it reappeared.

[NecroPaladin]

Hahaha, I love Xykon. He breaks all the cliche rules in that sure you can forget the hero you killed had a son who swore revenge, but not multiple times.

:roy: Remember me?

:xykon: No, Should I?

[Arya_of_Evern]

Awesome first panel!

Roy needs to give up on Xykon ever really remembering who he is, cause I doubt it's ever going to happen...and if it does, Roy will likely be half-mad from the wait by then XD

[RusVal]

Why did I get images of 300 when I look at the first panel?

I would like to add my name to the list of the people who laughed at the palidan being puked on. Really, really hard.

[Balathustrius]

I love the lens flare effect in the first panel.

Great, as usual. Thanks, Giant!!

[Alysar]

Rich, if you're reading this, is there any chance of getting the first panel in an enlarged form? Like, say, as big as desktop wallpaper?

[Professor Tanhauser]

Looks like belkar didn't cheat roy and gave him a real jumping ring. Hey, the belkster may be a little rough, but he's no cheat or liar.

[Strega]

Whoop, I was wrong. I was so sure the one on the dragon wasn't Xykon. Why the heck is he buzzing the battlements? It had "I'm a distraction and thus not the real one" written all over it.

[Alysar]

Another art mistake. In the third panel, the gash is in front of the sword glow.

[Gunslinger47]

(posted edited to strikeout useless comments) :smallfrown:

The dragon appears to be missing its wound in the first panel.
Someone's already mentioned that.

That's some impressive damage that Roy just took, despite the looks the relatively minor "cheek-scuff" injury he received.

/me crunches the numbers.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fingerOfDeath.htm
42d6 damage, 147 on average, given the minimum sorcerer casterlevel.

Ack, 3d6 + 1/CL, not 3d6/CL. Only 24.5 damage. :smallfrown:

[Ezlo]

C'mon Roy! If Wander can do it, you can!

[Silver]

Anyone else notice that the guy getting barfed on still has the angry look?

Hey, at least he has his mouth closed.

[Legendary]

Hooray for Roy! I'm getting the impression that Comic #500 will be related to this battle.

[MReav]

Looks like belkar didn't cheat roy and gave him a real jumping ring. Hey, the belkster may be a little rough, but he's no cheat or liar.

Yes he is. Read On the Origin of PCs. And 203 (never done anything wrong says the man who executed surrendered prisoners and killed pathetic barbarians) and 206 (law abiding citizens?). And lets not forget "Hello fellow medium sized creature" in 298, and "Leprosy" in 304. Then there was his agreement with Roy that he'd stop the back and forth shtick with V, which he obviously did not honor in 323.

He's an entertaining little psychopath though.

[Alysar]

Anyone else think it's odd for Xykon of all people to be calling Roy 'baldy'?

[Duraska]

Dear Giant,

As many others have said, the first panel is AMAZING! That panel would look fantastic on the chest of a black t-shirt! *Hint* *hint* :wink:

[Stormthorn]

And the first panel was absolutely beautiful.


Yes. Truly amazing. I did a double take.

[Staren]

Hey, the belkster may be a little rough, but he's no cheat or liar.
If Belkar heard you say that Professor Tanhauser, he'd kick your ass.

Well he would if your not among the living anyway....damn that mark....:smallamused:

[Fighteer]

The dragon appears to be missing its wound in the first panel.

That's some impressive damage that Roy just took, despite the looks the relatively minor "cheek-scuff" injury he received.

/me crunches the numbers.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fingerOfDeath.htm
42d6 damage, 147 on average, given the minimum sorcerer casterlevel.
Umm... what? "3d6 points of damage + 1 point of damage per caster level"... if Xykon is 20th, that's 3d6+20, or 23-38 damage. That's a decent hit but hardly a huge chunk of Roy's HPs. I'm just amazed that Roy made his Fort save, given his dramatic ability to fail them at key moments in the past.

Can I put in a vote to get panel #1 as wallpaper?

[Krytha]

If Roy isn't optimized...

[Shawnis]

Haha Xykon has a short attention span.

[BurntOfferings]

That Dragon is either not a Zombie, given how bleedin' maneuverable it is, or it's using a fly spell for its maneuvers.
I hear ya. I love the dragon, the concept is awesome, but the mechanics of it bother me. A zombie has twice the hit dice of the base creature, so a creature with more than 10 hit dice can't be made into a zombie with animate dead. How did they create it? More importantly, how do they control it? :smallconfused:

[Turcano]

"Hey--wait a second. I know who you are now! You're that guy! The one kept getting pissed off at me for not remembering... something."

Oh, Xykon. Don't ever change.

[MReav]

Umm... what? "3d6 points of damage + 1 point of damage per caster level"... if Xykon is 20th, that's 3d6+20, or 23-38 damage. That's a decent hit but hardly a huge chunk of Roy's HPs. I'm just amazed that Roy made his Fort save, given his dramatic ability to fail them at key moments in the past.

Oh god, my friend once made that same mistake. When it comes to DnD, he's like a reverse Idiot Savant. He's intelligent in many ways, but when it comes to RPGs, he just gets this mental block.

[Samiam303]

That first panel would make an amazing desktop background. Any chance of that being downloadable, oh Giant? :wink:

[Sarone]

Here, here on the splash.

Hey, can you do a stick figure, ala OOTS, of my company when we get back from Iraq?

[Gunslinger47]

Umm... what? "3d6 points of damage + 1 point of damage per caster level"... if Xykon is 20th, that's 3d6+20, or 23-38 damage. That's a decent hit but hardly a huge chunk of Roy's HPs. I'm just amazed that Roy made his Fort save, given his dramatic ability to fail them at key moments in the past.


Oh god, my friend once made that same mistake. When it comes to DnD, he's like a reverse Idiot Savant. He's intelligent in many ways, but when it comes to RPGs, he just gets this mental block.

Thanks, Fighteer. I had mistakenly read it as 3d6 damage per casterlevel. :smallfrown:

[CDR Grendelwulf]

Just thought I'd post my first post to say what a great battle its turning out to be and thanks for giving me a new wallpaper :smallcool:

When I saw the first frame, I just had to make it my desktop too.... :smallcool:

Absitively posilutely the best!

Ciao,
CDR Grendelwulf

[Caledonian]

I'm beginning to think that Wisdom was Xykon's weakest stat.

Two words: Control Undead.

[JoeKano]

hmmmm sweet Desktop pic that would be yes..............

Great one, Xykon is a crack up.

[fractal]

I'm thinking that Death Ward would have been a much better buff for Roy than Spell Resistance. Why NOT eliminate the entire school of Necromancy with a single spell?

[PsyBlade]

Who thinks Xykon purposefully said 'something' as his last words to make Roy even madder? I certainly do.

[Fighteer]

I hear ya. I love the dragon, the concept is awesome, but the mechanics of it bother me. A zombie has twice the hit dice of the base creature, so a creature with more than 10 hit dice can't be made into a zombie with animate dead. How did they create it? More importantly, how do they control it? :smallconfused:
We've been over this repeatedly since #428. The dragon is a dragon zombie from the Draconomicon. It retains most of its abilities, but at a weakened level. Such zombies can be created with animate dead.

[The Wanderer]

Who thinks Xykon purposefully said 'something' as his last words to make Roy even madder? I certainly do.

I've been resisting the urge to bring up the possibility, but I think that Xykon has remembered Roy, but loves mentally tormenting people. And it's pretty easy to see how much effect it has on Roy, so why not go with it?

[Fighteer]

Who thinks Xykon purposefully said 'something' as his last words to make Roy even madder? I certainly do.
I don't. It's part of Xykon's character; he has killed so many people that he doesn't bother remembering them. He's completely oblivious to the notion that someone might successfully oppose him. His arrogance borders on attention deficit disorder.

[katzklaw]

yeah, that first panel was TOO awsome. i already have it as my desktop image also.

poor Roy... and poor pukey paladin. LOL

[asqwasqw]

We may die today, men- but at least we die with HONOR!
*Gets barfed on*

Best quote ever.

[WarDragon]

If Roy isn't optimized...
He's a Fighter with no multiclassing or Prestige Classes. Even the best-optimized version of that build can't do much more than keep up with a middling-optimized version of most other melee builds, and gets left in the dust by any full caster. Of course, the stupidly powerful sword should do quite a bit to even things out.

*ahem*

Loved the first panel, and Xykon's last line is hilarious. Amazing how he can be so powerful, and yet so clueless...

[malakim2099]

If Roy isn't optimized...

Considering that he has a very high Int, he's not optimized for fighter smashies.

Great panel, and this makes perfect sense. Like Redcloak noticed with the bullseye thing some strips back... your objective is the gate. You could care less about the city, so send in Xykon (who hates all this war and planning stuff anyway, he'd rather watch TeeVo) right to the heart of the matter.

[Dausuul]

Who thinks Xykon purposefully said 'something' as his last words to make Roy even madder? I certainly do.

Nah, I'm pretty sure Xykon genuinely forgot. Stunning obliviousness to all details, people, and past events is his personal trademark, after all.

And I guess we know what he used on Haley now...

(Incidentally, quite aside from the "Baldy" comment, he's got some nerve criticizing Roy's build optimization when a friggin' rogue made her saving throw against his finger of death. Not to mention the idiocy of hitting an obvious fighter-type with a spell that targets his Fort save... but then, clever tactics have never been Xykon's strong suit.)

[Nightmarenny]

Who thinks Xykon purposefully said 'something' as his last words to make Roy even madder? I certainly do.
No, thats what makes Xykon awesome. Everyone is so completly inconsequecial to him. Even the man thats supposed to be his archenemy(of sorts) is just this one guy that he forgets regularly.

[Alysar]

Loved the first panel, and Xykon's last line is hilarious. Amazing how he can be so powerful, and yet so clueless...

Xykon isn't clueless, he just doesn't give a damn.

[brionl]

Oh yeah, definately the real Xykon. :)

Is there a fan-club for the "die with honor" guy yet?

[The Wanderer]

No, thats what makes Xykon awesome. Everyone is so completly inconsequecial to him. Even the man thats supposed to be his archenemy(of sorts) is just this one guy that he forgets regularly.

See, I was thinking that he truly didn't remember at the start of the whole encounter, and only put the pieces together halfway through this current strip, but still wanted to throw more salt into Roy's wounds...

[Nightmarenny]

See, I was thinking that he truly didn't remember at the start of the whole encounter, and only put the pieces together halfway through this current strip, but still wanted to throw more salt into Roy's wounds...
That works, too:smallbiggrin:

[MReav]

You know what's funny? Xykon actually knew the title of the Order of the Stick, back in comic 97.

[Demented]

Oh, gods, the dither! Mein eyes, MEIN EYES! Ahhhhgghhrgerhgllge...

There's got to be a better way to make it all glowy...

[Alysar]

What dither? If you're talking about the sun glare, it looks nice and smooth on my screen.

[Nightmarenny]

You know what's funny? Xykon actually knew the title of the Order of the Stick, back in comic 97.So, how is that funny? He found out Roys name a couple of times too. He's Xykon they are 13th level adventurer. Why should he remember their names? If it were up to you he'd proably be giving them monogramed sweaters everytime they meet, eh?:smallbiggrin:

[MReav]

So, how is that funny? He found out Roys name a couple of times too. He's Xykon they are 13th level adventurer. Why should he remember their names? If it were up to you he'd proably be giving them monogramed sweaters everytime they meet, eh?:smallbiggrin:

He didn't need any prodding to know who they were. And if it were up to me, Xykon would be spamming Horrid Wiltings.

[Demented]

What dither? If you're talking about the sun glare, it looks nice and smooth on my screen.

Look at Xykon's robe in the first panel. That dither.

At least Rich used random dither. Looks much better than the pattern stuff he's used before.

[Vulion]

Unholy crap! Go Roy!

[Nightmarenny]

He didn't need any prodding to know who they were. And if it were up to me, Xykon would be spamming Horrid Wiltings.Anyway back then they had a use. Now they are just faceless nobodies. He no longer needs someone pure so who the hell cares who they are.

[Aerysil]

I was hoping for a little more slicy choppy, but the katana-paladin having to resolve keeping his honor with puke all over him was a funny surprise :)

[Vox]

Ok, so........

Belkar DID NOT betray Roy by giving him a fake Ring of Jumping........

The Xykon on the dragon IS the real bad-A lich sorcerer we know and (love? hate?)

And Sangwaan LIVES! (ok, speculative, but still.....)

Crazy theories that people bring out when they're stuck waiting for the next comic, eh?

On a side note: SWEET first panel.

[Dausuul]

Oh, gods, the dither! Mein eyes, MEIN EYES! Ahhhhgghhrgerhgllge...

There's got to be a better way to make it all glowy...


Look at Xykon's robe in the first panel. That dither.

At least Rich used random dither. Looks much better than the pattern stuff he's used before.

What was it Xykon said to Roy back in their first encounter (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0112.html)...?

"You, sir, have a serious problem with overreaction." :)

[foil_fedora]

Incredible opening panel today (pretty darn slick artwork for a guy who draws stick figures for a living... and colors way outside the lines) :wink:

I'll bet a nickel that's gonna give you some fits when it's time to do a layout for print...

:thog: Thog want dragon ride too!!! :thog:

[Sturmjaeger]

Mm, puked-up sushi. Smells like mom's recipe.

[Helgraf]

It seems quite clear to me that even the real Xykon is a decoy - albiet one capable of going up against the OotSers.

My money is on someone else (Redcloak, maybe?) being in the infiltration team to get to the gate; then using a message spell or the like to notify Xykon, who will then probably teleport or something similiar directly to point B - or perhaps he has a contingency in this battle to teleport himself directly to the location of object A - convieniently carried by one of the infilitration team - when the proper trigger is activated.

[Nightmarenny]

It seems quite clear to me that even the real Xykon is a decoy - albiet one capable of going up against the OotSers.

My money is on someone else (Redcloak, maybe?) being in the infiltration team to get to the gate; then using a message spell or the like to notify Xykon, who will then probably teleport or something similiar directly to point B - or perhaps he has a contingency in this battle to teleport himself directly to the location of object A - convieniently carried by one of the infilitration team - when the proper trigger is activated.
why? What does getting to the gate do? What needs to happen is for the humans to be cleared from the city. With that goal in mind Xykon is right where he should be.

[Haruki-kun]

reat comic.
Xykon: Short term memory loss.
Roy: Vomits a lot for his size.
Azure City Soldiers: No honor left.

[Aiani]

The first panel was beautiful and then Xykon is priceless as ever. Awesome strip.

[IronSoldier820]

Nice opening on this one.

[Albion]

Well, I cracked up all the time beginning from something as simple as "Unholy Crap!" and it's just 9AM. Xykon's ignorance just doesn't get old :smallsmile: Pretty aerial combat. With puking and all.
(thinks about the "one in the back"...) Coolness

[Kirinith]

The first panel? Truly epic. A shame my D&D characters rarely live long enough to have similar confrontations :smalltongue:

Also, I turned the first panel into a background; if anyone else wants it, here's a link (In 1024x768):
http://www.fileden.com/public/2007/3/24/4604e0fbad545954005153.png

[factotum]

I'm thinking that Death Ward would have been a much better buff for Roy than Spell Resistance. Why NOT eliminate the entire school of Necromancy with a single spell?

Well, the Giant originally put Holy Aura there until someone pointed out that Durkon wasn't high enough level to cast that spell, so then he did a last-minute replacement for Spell Resistance. Also, I'm pretty darned sure that death magic isn't all Xykon has in his box of tricks--he's a high level sorcerer when all's said and done!

[ChimericPhase]

why? What does getting to the gate do? What needs to happen is for the humans to be cleared from the city. With that goal in mind Xykon is right where he should be.


I think he meant Soon's Gate http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0411.html

not the gates of the city

[taraxia]

Well, Roy couldn't beat the Fortitude Save DC for nausea, but he made his save for Finger of Death.

Kinda makes you think, doesn't it?

The results curve for rolling a d20 is flat, you know. Just as much chance of a 2 as an 18.

[taraxia]

Considering that he has a very high Int, he's not optimized for fighter smashies.

Great panel, and this makes perfect sense. Like Redcloak noticed with the bullseye thing some strips back... your objective is the gate. You could care less about the city, so send in Xykon (who hates all this war and planning stuff anyway, he'd rather watch TeeVo) right to the heart of the matter.

I think of Roy's high Int as just a sign that he rolled high or has a very high point buy. Since he's the primary protagonist, it makes sense.

[dragon95046]

All I Really Need to Know I Learned from Watching Star Trek...

Including "Evasive Maneuvers"!

[happyturtle]

Also; I turned the first panel into a background; if anyone else wants it, here's a link (In 1024x768): http://www.bigupload.com/d=F6FDC0EB

Cheers for that, but I keep getting a server error when I try to download. :smallfrown:

*love* the look on Xykon's skull when Roy shows up. 'Unholy Crap!' indeed! :smallbiggrin:

[Kirinith]

Cheers for that, but I keep getting a server error when I try to download. :smallfrown:

Yeah, wasn't a good host. I left a new link in the OP, which should work a bit better

[Galathir]

The first panel was amazing! Super job Rich. It's good to see Xykon being his old annoying self.

Keep it up!

[Dragor]

"Today we fight with honour!" *splat*

A laugh-out-loud moment for me. Good going Giant!

[V Junior]

That was INCREDIBLE!

[Tadpole]

Loved it! Laughed all the way through from Unholy Crap! Laughed like an insane maniac for a good long time at the paladin getting puked on. "Today we die with honor!" I love his expression behind the puke. Classic. And I just kept laughing. Great, great job! Very exciting too!

Only thing I didn't get was the comment about Roy's build optimization. Anyone care to explain (without that myth about how pure fighters are bad and/or lose to spellcasters)?

[Raeden]

Good comic and all, but I can't say I'm a big fan of cursing.

[Neopolis]

This is so damn awesome. I laughed at this (Which is rare in itself) 3 times. First at "Unholy crap!", then at the honorable puke, and then at the punchline. Brilliant.

[CockroachTeaParty]

There was lens glare, and motion blur.

[Erianaiel]

I feel kind of sorry for that paladin though. Might die with honor, but I think his dignity is in negative HP right now.


But are the goblins going to come near him, 'dressed' like that?


Eri

[Baru]

The colors seem ... low quality.

[Erianaiel]

The zombie dragon is pretty oblivious, ain't he? Same expression.

Guess it comes with being, well, dead. Not much dragon at home there anymore I suppose.


Eri

[SolkaTruesilver]

The first panel tells to everybody why I love playing the fighter/paladin/barbarian, and all those heavy-melee type.

Sure, caster-players will tell me that they are more powerful, can bash more and beat me in every way I want to challenge them (IF they have the proper spells prepared)

But no caster would ever do something as insane or heroic (they are substitute) as jumping on the undead dragon to duel the evil Lich 2000 feets in the air, with no Feather Fall prepared...

No, the caster would simply have Fly prepared, and duelled the lich in a regular spellduel. Nothing heroic in that :smallamused:

Bright and smart, but not heroic

[Erianaiel]

It seems quite clear to me that even the real Xykon is a decoy - albiet one capable of going up against the OotSers.

My money is on someone else (Redcloak, maybe?) being in the infiltration team to get to the gate; then using a message spell or the like to notify Xykon, who will then probably teleport or something similiar directly to point B - or perhaps he has a contingency in this battle to teleport himself directly to the location of object A - convieniently carried by one of the infilitration team - when the proper trigger is activated.

*confused*

What is this gate everybody is talking about?


Eri (in the dark)

[Arssanguinus]

When people talk about "Un - optimized fighters" they tend to forget that the recipient of most of the Buff spells out there is the. .fighter. And a buffed up high level fighter can be a scary prospect. A hastened enlarged etcetera etcetera. . .

[Erianaiel]

But no caster would ever do something as insane or heroic (they are substitute) as jumping on the undead dragon to duel the evil Lich 2000 feets in the air, with no Feather Fall prepared...



There are a few ways that a fighter like Roy can make Xykon's day quite bad from where he is now ...


He could cut the reins. Lich controlled zombie or not, a dragon still needs to be steered around obstacles and in the general direction you want to go.

He could cut the saddle strap. See how much acrobatics Xykon can manage while dangling underneath the dragon from the reins. It is going to cut into his spellcasting too I would think.

Mind, this would be a good time for the defenders to roll out a ballista or two. Even a zombie dragon would be forced to sit up and take notice after a two meter long 50 pound spear or two would be sticking into it. For about half its length.



Eri

[Dib]

hmm... is it just me or do Xykon's robes seem a little spotty?

[Erianaiel]

When people talk about "Un - optimized fighters" they tend to forget that the recipient of most of the Buff spells out there is the. .fighter. And a buffed up high level fighter can be a scary prospect. A hastened enlarged etcetera etcetera. . .

Indeed. Quite a few hobgoblins can testify to that.

..

Or they could if somebody would bother to cast 'speak to the dead' on them


Eri

[Silmarwen]

Well...awsome as usual...

I think there is a little mistake though. In the first panel the dragon is missing his first wound. cheers!

[I eat Jawas]

just wondering, do liches work like the traditional concept of vampires? What I mean is, when one dies, do all its undead creations also die?

[Xartyve]

AUGH NO! THREE GOOD ONES IN A ROW AND THE STREAK WAS BROKEN! NOOOO!!! Oh well, next time

[flechette]

Can I add my voice to those requesting the first panal for a T-shirt or somewhere on swag?

Absolutely awesome!

[Hel65]

Go Xykon! Fun stuff.

[lord_khaine]

in D&D, commen consensus is that the fighter is the weakest and least effective class of them all. sure he might actualy be lucky and beat fx a rogue in open battle, but the figher is about fighting, where a pure rogues primary job is just as much to keep the party out of nasty traps.

and besides that, then there is a lot of classes that fight better than a fighter. barbarian smash thing better when he is raging. ranger does better against his favored enemy, and get both some lowlv spells and some real nasty tricks to use in a forrest. paladins does better against evil opponents, gets Char mod to their save, gets some lowlv spells, and turn undead that allows for some decent feats.

that was just the classes with full BAB, thats closest in terms of purpose with the fighter, when we starts to compare him to things like fx cleric or druid, it just gets even more sad.

because of this most fighters are just used as a springboard to some prestice class, for he really doesnt lose anything of importance doing so, besides a few feats.

now besides all of this, then Roy isnt just a pure fighter, he seems to be a non-optimized one, who have wasted feats on things like great cleavage, instead of getting something more usefull like fx expertise.

and as for the buffing up part, the problem here is 2-fold, first of all the buffs have to come from somewhere, and if the fighter needs to drain the resources of the cleric/wizard to be effective, then it would really have been better to get a second cleric, since, and this is the second part, the best buffs are only useable on yourself.

[BisectedBrioche]

I wonder if Miko will see Roy and Xykon on the dragon and get the wrong idea?

[Conners]

Just spotted a bug with the first panel.

The zombie dragon is missing the scar on its neck, the one behind the dark gray spot. The Dragon has it throughout the rest of the comic, so I assume it was an accident.

Other than that, fantastic job once again, Giant.

[Hinton]

Great work yet again, Giant. "Unholy crap" is the second best line in this one; beaten only by Xykon and Roy's exchange at the end ("...for not remembering...something." "Goddamn it!")

[Mr Teufel]

Impressive opening panel* - really heroic!

"We die with honour!" (but slightly squishy dignity.)

Perhaps Xykon should try gingko bilboa (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html)?


*I'm sure the slight errors/flaws will be fixed in due course. :smallsmile:

[Quel Technoh]

Great Strip Giant. One thing though, in the first panel, there does not appear to be any evidence of Roy's initial damage to the dragon. However, in later panels the wound is evident.

[Solharath]

Soo... Where did Roy put the Ring Belkar gave him?

[Dib]

Soo... Where did Roy put the Ring Belkar gave him?

Probably on his finger? It's also a ring of partial invisibility... Or maybe the same place Belkar usually keeps his things...

[Threeshades]

Soo... Where did Roy put the Ring Belkar gave him?

he's wearing it. You cant see stuff like rings when the character is wearing it in OOTS

Well anyway there we have it: The Ring as well as Xykon are real

[Fighteer]

just wondering, do liches work like the traditional concept of vampires? What I mean is, when one dies, do all its undead creations also die?
That has never been a D&D rule. When a necromancer dies, the undead under his control become uncontrolled, but otherwise remain intact unless specifically stated otherwise in their description.

The concept was explained a lot better in 2nd edition: the act of creating a basic undead creature (skeleton, zombie, ghoul, etc.) calls forth an elemental spirit from the Plane of Negative Energy that takes possession of the body. These spirits are akin to the ones that empower golem constructs, and are just as mindless (albeit evil).

[Max_Sinister]

For such a mighty being, Xykon has a sh*tty memory. (How does D&D rule memory?)

[J.Gellert]

Another old D&D question is whether uncontrolled undead just stand there, or find the nearest life to destroy; but it varies with the setting and the Dungeon Master, if controlled undead are more like automatons, or killers on a tight leash.

That said, Xykon comments on Roy's build, but he casts Finger of Death on a fighter? That's a bad choice right there :smalltongue:

Hold Person and let him fall to the ground for lots of d6 damage! Keep Finger of Death for V-man.

[MrPhoenix]

dear...god...can't...breathe...
laughing...to...much...someone...please...
...help...
need...oxygen...

jesus christ. phew. that was close.
i guess, that comic is the new top #1 now.

[Fighteer]

For such a mighty being, Xykon has a sh*tty memory. (How does D&D rule memory?)
If it's remembering something factual or learned, it's the applicable Knowledge skill. Otherwise it's a straight Intelligence check. But in roleplaying (as opposed to roll-playing), a player or DM may choose to make their character(s) as forgetful or oblivious as they want. In Xykon's case, as I said earlier, he's so insanely arrogant that the names and lives of "lesser" people are beyond notice.


Another old D&D question is whether uncontrolled undead just stand there, or find the nearest life to destroy; but it varies with the setting and the Dungeon Master, if controlled undead are more like automatons, or killers on a tight leash.
If they don't have an Intelligence score, they would continue to mindlessly obey their last command, or in the absence of orders, stand there until someone attacked them or someone able to control them came along and succeeded in a Command attempt.


That said, Xykon comments on Roy's build, but he casts Finger of Death on a fighter? That's a bad choice right there :smalltongue:

Hold Person and let him fall to the ground for lots of d6 damage! Keep Finger of Death for V-man.
Remember that Con is not Roy's best stat. He's repeatedly demonstrated the ability to fail Fort saves at key moments. Not that Xykon knows this, but again it goes back to his megalomania. He doesn't believe that anyone could make a save against his spells.

[ref]

For a moment when I saw Roy just before the puke I thought we had a zombie Roy

[Fingolfin]

Wow, I must commend the great drawing Giant did, the first scene is very nice. I've come to realize that with each comic we see an improvement of the technique.

And very nice comic! :)

[the_tick_rules]

Is Xykon really that forgetful, or is he just messing with him?

[taraxia]

I'm thinking that Death Ward would have been a much better buff for Roy than Spell Resistance. Why NOT eliminate the entire school of Necromancy with a single spell?

Because as soon as the uber-high-level caster figures out that that's what you've done, he starts hammering you with Evocations instead?

SR at least has a chance to work against almost everything Xykon does.

[the_tick_rules]

or durkon didn't have that spell ready. oh and unholy crap, good quote.

[Tawkis]

in D&D, commen consensus is that the fighter is the weakest and least effective class of them all. sure he might actualy be lucky and beat fx a rogue in open battle, but the figher is about fighting, where a pure rogues primary job is just as much to keep the party out of nasty traps.

and besides that, then there is a lot of classes that fight better than a fighter. barbarian smash thing better when he is raging. ranger does better against his favored enemy, and get both some lowlv spells and some real nasty tricks to use in a forrest. paladins does better against evil opponents, gets Char mod to their save, gets some lowlv spells, and turn undead that allows for some decent feats.

that was just the classes with full BAB, thats closest in terms of purpose with the fighter, when we starts to compare him to things like fx cleric or druid, it just gets even more sad.

because of this most fighters are just used as a springboard to some prestice class, for he really doesnt lose anything of importance doing so, besides a few feats.

now besides all of this, then Roy isnt just a pure fighter, he seems to be a non-optimized one, who have wasted feats on things like great cleavage, instead of getting something more usefull like fx expertise.

and as for the buffing up part, the problem here is 2-fold, first of all the buffs have to come from somewhere, and if the fighter needs to drain the resources of the cleric/wizard to be effective, then it would really have been better to get a second cleric, since, and this is the second part, the best buffs are only useable on yourself.
Often I find this is a result of DM's allowing the party time to replenish all the time. Part of the fighter's strength (and the rogues) is that they don't need to replenish anything but HP (which everyone needs) a fighter is still doing the same damage 60 rounds while the vaunted barbarian is a fighter without bonus feats, as is the paladin.
If your DM doesn't allow a lot of rest stops, then the cleric can't burn all of the spells on self buffs, he/she may actually need to heal. Casting fireball all the time stops being an option etc...
IMO the problems isn't the spell power themselves, but the ability of casters to ensure rest without interruption.


And Solka, I agree. Melee types are just plain cooler than casters when they do something heroic. :roy: is the man, but so is :thog: because I like puppies too.

[Blaznak]

Ahhhh Xykon... ya gotta love the guy. I mean, he ALMOST knows what's going on. I'd rate him as Chaotic Evil Absent-Minded.

Poor Roy never gets his props, though. Probably makes him a better fighter in the long run...

[BigDumbFighter]

"We may die today, men - but at least we die with HONOR!"

"BLERRRRCH!"

Great comic. The first panel was, to put it simply, freaking awesome. The evasive manuver was funny, as was Roy's "reaction". And then, of course, Xykon couldn't remember why Roy was angry at him.

And BTW, "Unholy crap!" is one of the greatest quotes. Ever.

[Ariko]

I think he meant Soon's Gate http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0411.html

not the gates of the city

Yes, an so di the poster you quoted. He means that Xykon needs at least a week reasonably free of distractions for his rituals to take control of the gate. Which means clearing out the city of defenders.

Oh, and as others have said, its not so much that Xykon is forgetful, hes just..focused on the gates to the point of paying little attention to the 'miscellaneous' details..like battle. and archnemies. and stuff. :smallbiggrin:

[Varg]

Ahhhh Xykon... ya gotta love the guy. I mean, he ALMOST knows what's going on. I'd rate him as Chaotic Evil Absent-Minded.


http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0110.html

Classic.

[DougWykstra]

Is Roy's Con score really that low? In his fight with Sabine, he seems to take quite a lot of damage, and then is able to help the order take down Leeky Windstaff and Thog. It seems like Roy must get a good deal of constitution from his armor or somewhere, considering the probable highness of his strength, dex, and int scores.

[factotum]

Well, that could just be down to d10 hit dice and some lucky rolling...

[Rothkal]

For those of you who are looking to have the first panel as their desktop background, there is a way to do it yourself.

What you need to have open:

Internet browser with the comic
2 seperate windows of Microsoft Paint (or the macintosh equivilant)

What to Do:

First is to copy/paste the comic into one of the paint windows
Second, take the "Select" option (top-right option on the left bar) and cut around the first panel
Third, press Ctrl+C to copy what you just selected
Next, open the other paint window and press Ctrl+V to paste that image
Save the image on your computer in any format you like (certain formats will change the coloring slightly)
Finally, right click on your desktop and choose properties, goto Desktop tab, browse, and select the image you just saved.

Hit apply and you have your shiny new desktop

[otakuryoga]

thanks for resisting the urge to put roys tongue out in the 1st panel ala another famous bald black man who jumps high 8)

that panel was just absolutely stunning

[Tach13]

Very funny comic (again, feeling like I'm being redundant here, lol), introduced by what may be the greatest stick figure drawing in history. The Giant is a genius.
And just to point out, Xykon is Roy's arch enemy, but not the other way around. Xykon doesn't give two copper's about Roy, he's about as memorable as any of the Goblins he threw at Roy.

[Tobimaro]

It looks like random defender's honor, while intact, just got slammed into by half-digested sushi. :smallyuk: And I can feel for Roy, as I too would get sick on that kind of roller-coaster ride.

That being said, great comic, Rich. :smallsmile:


in D&D, commen consensus is that the fighter is the weakest and least effective class of them all. sure he might actualy be lucky and beat fx a rogue in open battle, but the figher is about fighting, where a pure rogues primary job is just as much to keep the party out of nasty traps.

and besides that, then there is a lot of classes that fight better than a fighter. barbarian smash thing better when he is raging. ranger does better against his favored enemy, and get both some lowlv spells and some real nasty tricks to use in a forrest. paladins does better against evil opponents, gets Char mod to their save, gets some lowlv spells, and turn undead that allows for some decent feats.

that was just the classes with full BAB, thats closest in terms of purpose with the fighter, when we starts to compare him to things like fx cleric or druid, it just gets even more sad.

because of this most fighters are just used as a springboard to some prestice class, for he really doesnt lose anything of importance doing so, besides a few feats.

now besides all of this, then Roy isnt just a pure fighter, he seems to be a non-optimized one, who have wasted feats on things like great cleavage, instead of getting something more usefull like fx expertise.

and as for the buffing up part, the problem here is 2-fold, first of all the buffs have to come from somewhere, and if the fighter needs to drain the resources of the cleric/wizard to be effective, then it would really have been better to get a second cleric, since, and this is the second part, the best buffs are only useable on yourself.

Well, fighters have a couple of advantages over barbarians and rangers. Barbarians can be shut down with a simple Calm Emotions spell (stops rage, and they cannot start another rage until getting some rest). And Rangers can simply not encounter a favored enemy (they take orcs as a favored enemy, and then never encounter orcs for a long time). Fighters never have to worry about those problems.

[Evil_Pacifist]

Ooh! Shiny, a lens flare.

Excellent comic.

[lord_khaine]

Often I find this is a result of DM's allowing the party time to replenish all the time. Part of the fighter's strength (and the rogues) is that they don't need to replenish anything but HP (which everyone needs) a fighter is still doing the same damage 60 rounds while the vaunted barbarian is a fighter without bonus feats, as is the paladin.
If your DM doesn't allow a lot of rest stops, then the cleric can't burn all of the spells on self buffs, he/she may actually need to heal. Casting fireball all the time stops being an option etc...
IMO the problems isn't the spell power themselves, but the ability of casters to ensure rest without interruption.


And Solka, I agree. Melee types are just plain cooler than casters when they do something heroic. :roy: is the man, but so is :thog: because I like puppies too.

actualy fighters are weakest in this type of situation, since their HP runs out much faster than the wizards/clerics spells, where they have spells for 3-4 battles, then a fighter could easely lose enough hp in a singel fight to be unable to keep on.
think about it, how many fighters do you know that can keep fighting though 3 encounters without recieving healing?

fx in the situation where we have 4 fighters, and 4 clerics both fighting wave after wave of encounters their own lv, who do you think would be able to take most waves?

[Arssanguinus]

in D&D, commen consensus is that the fighter is the weakest and least effective class of them all. sure he might actualy be lucky and beat fx a rogue in open battle, but the figher is about fighting, where a pure rogues primary job is just as much to keep the party out of nasty traps.

and besides that, then there is a lot of classes that fight better than a fighter. barbarian smash thing better when he is raging. ranger does better against his favored enemy, and get both some lowlv spells and some real nasty tricks to use in a forrest. paladins does better against evil opponents, gets Char mod to their save, gets some lowlv spells, and turn undead that allows for some decent feats.

that was just the classes with full BAB, thats closest in terms of purpose with the fighter, when we starts to compare him to things like fx cleric or druid, it just gets even more sad.

because of this most fighters are just used as a springboard to some prestice class, for he really doesnt lose anything of importance doing so, besides a few feats.

now besides all of this, then Roy isnt just a pure fighter, he seems to be a non-optimized one, who have wasted feats on things like great cleavage, instead of getting something more usefull like fx expertise.

and as for the buffing up part, the problem here is 2-fold, first of all the buffs have to come from somewhere, and if the fighter needs to drain the resources of the cleric/wizard to be effective, then it would really have been better to get a second cleric, since, and this is the second part, the best buffs are only useable on yourself.

There you go. If you only view the party as four individuals, of course your view would hold.

[Pantler]

As for me, the strip was decent.
+ Amazing first panel (I wholeheartedly support the request for wallpaperizing it)
+ Great Xykon lines
- Cheap and a little disgusting puking joke

[lord_khaine]

There you go. If you only view the party as four individuals, of course your view would hold.

no, its especaly when you view the party as a team, that the fighter cant contribute as much as the rest, in all situations a cleric/fighter-hybrid/multiclass fighter would be better for the team than a pure fighter.

[TheAuldGrump]

Is Xykon really that forgetful, or is he just messing with him?
More and more Xykon reminds me of Strongbad.... I can almost hear his voice, sometimes.

The Auld Grump

[Turcano]

Often I find this is a result of DM's allowing the party time to replenish all the time. Part of the fighter's strength (and the rogues) is that they don't need to replenish anything but HP (which everyone needs) a fighter is still doing the same damage 60 rounds while the vaunted barbarian is a fighter without bonus feats, as is the paladin.
If your DM doesn't allow a lot of rest stops, then the cleric can't burn all of the spells on self buffs, he/she may actually need to heal. Casting fireball all the time stops being an option etc...
IMO the problems isn't the spell power themselves, but the ability of casters to ensure rest without interruption.

The problem with that argument is that, unless certain options are barred, it won't keep divine casters down in any case. Divine Metamagic, Persistent Spell, and Nightsticks allow a cleric to emulate a fighter for the cost of a 4th-level spell slot, making the character a fighter with full spellcasting. Natural Spell (which is core, unlike the cleric options) does pretty much the same thing for a druid.

[Old One]

I don't think he's put a decoy on the dragon! It's a dragon for cying out loud! :smallsmile: Anyway, the first panel was really wow! I so felt like making a fanart picture based off of that one! Glorious! And tremendously funny as always! I soo love Xykon! And Roy too! Gah! I hope Roy wins... but all the same I really don't wan't Xycon to go! He's too funny and cool a villan to die! I love this comic! Woot! :smallbiggrin:

[Rambi]

Yeah, I loved the 1st panel lens flare! Sweet comic too.

[ikcor]

Did anyone else use Eric Cartman's voice for the last panel?

[Catch]

Forget Roy, forget Xykon. Heck, forget the zombie-dragon.

Lens flare. There's always room for more lens flare. It's like the cowbell.

Warms the heart, y'know?

[kolmik]

Snrk makes you wonder what kind of mods *evasive maneuvers* gives to a nausea check....

[chibibar]

heh... I guess Roy only made his save because Durkon casts spell resistence on Roy before Roy jumped.

[ReaganStorme]

Doesn't Elan telling Roy "good luck" in 429 doom Roy to bad luck? I'm guessing a long fall for someone coming soon.

[CelestialStick]

I was sadly disappointed when Roy was able to jump on top of the dragon after I'd so painstakingly determined that for a non-epic character it was essentially impossible unless the dragon was flying right at the level of the wall. Someone on the last thread said that the PCs do it all the time in his campaign, and I wanted to know if that was feasible under the rules. It's not. The funny thing is that if he'd never posted that his players do it routinely I'd never have bothered to look up the jump rules and make the calculations, and I would have enjoyed this strip more. I'm in a foul mood, as I suppose I've been most of the time since my father died three weeks ago, so maybe I wouldn't have enjoyed so much anyway, although actually I have been rather enjoying the strips Rich has produced since my father died.

Anyway I did like the Star Trek reference. I might be the only poster to this thread actually old enough to have seen the original Star Trek when it first aired back in September of 1966. I had to smile a bit at the use of evasive maneuvers, as they rarely worked very well for the Enterprise either. Kirk would say, "Sulu, evasive maneuvers!" and Sulu would usually say something like, "I'll try, Captain," while shaking his head. After 30-60 seconds of trying, Sulu would probably say something like, "it's no good, Captain," and Kirk would have to find some other way out of their predicament. (For the record, Sulu wasn't always at the helm in every episode--in fact he started out as head of the ship's physics department) so sometimes it was someone else failing to evade anything with evasive maneuvers. I'm fairly certain that subsequent Star Trek starships made good (or poor) use of evasive maneuvers too, so there's probably a while cadre of Star Fleet helmsmen (and women) who couldn't evade much of anything with evasive maneuvers.

[ingtar33]

great opening panel

[Imgran]

Evasive maneuvers would do little against relatively modern targeting computers lol.

Looks like it was the same deal this time with the Eraxykon

[Senko]

Not to mention that a multi-billion starship isn't exactly known for its turning circle.

As for the samurai I can just see him standing that dripping with an impassive look on his face as the soldiers edge a bit away from him and one say's "Um sir..." He looks over an aloof look on his face "WITH HONOUR I said." then turns to look back at the oncoming horde.

The thing about fighters is like in all DND depending on what you do you can make an immmensely poweful character or a complete mess of it. Its just that the fighter is really hard to make a good character with if you don't have much experience at the game. I remember someone playing around with gestalt characters and various splat books they eventually made a 14th level character capable of taking on 20+ (level) opponents with around 50 in their intelligence. They were a spellcaster but still something like that is insane.

[Icewalker]

Wooo! I nominate Roy for the title of So Damn Awesome Man (http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=592#comic). And, through Roy, this applies to The Giant as well,

[MReav]

I think this comic shows Xykon has low wisdom (despite being a Lich). He throws himself into semi-potential danger for fun and has an atrocious memory (I base memory off of wisdom due to the fact that Autohypnosis, which allows one to memorize stuff very effectively [yeah, I know it's not the same, still] is based off Wisdom)

[shadowkire]

The problem with that argument is that, unless certain options are barred, it won't keep divine casters down in any case. Divine Metamagic, Persistent Spell, and Nightsticks allow a cleric to emulate a fighter for the cost of a 4th-level spell slot, making the character a fighter with full spellcasting. Natural Spell (which is core, unlike the cleric options) does pretty much the same thing for a druid.
I have one word for that: "Dispell"
And in addition, a cleric that is as powerful as a fighter with "full spellcasting" is not that much tougher, the problem with the option to be a fighter and a cleric at the same time is that in DnD you can't actually do both at once. Unless the cleric takes a few feats it can only beat down with a weapon or cast a spell in one turn, and if the cleric gets to the level where it could have all the feats necessary it will probably be facing spellcasting monsters regularly.
And I have one word for that: "Dispell"

[lord_khaine]

well i have 1 word for that, ring of counterspelling, beads of karma, hitting the idiot before he casts his dispel magic, and a few other options.

ok that was a few more words, but i think you misunderstood us about the cleric/fighter thing, the case is that first the cleric does the fighters job better than himself, then he starts to cure the party after battle.

besides that a lot of the good cleric buffs doest have a visual effect, so it would be metagaming from the Gm's side to target the cleric with dispel magic, then again, the cost of recasting those buffs that got dispelled and curing the party from the damage a lv 5 spell could do is about the same i think.

[Arbitrarity]

Dispel, ha. The cleric laughs with his beads of Karma. Furthermore, the cleric then remembers that, though he can't do both at once, if there were two of him, they could do either, or fight, or cast, and be better than the fighter at fighting (see: righteous might, see: divine power, see: +10 strength), as well as retaining casting power.

Dispel doen't work on wildshape, and to your dispel, the cleric says to the fighter: Divine metacheese quickened chained dispel, chained shatter.

Oh, magic items? What magic items?

[StarWidget]

I'm fairly convinced, now, that evil genius = witty humor.

Is it wrong to love :xykon: so much?

[Baalzebub]

You might want to work on your build optimization on the way up, baldy

Go! :xykon:

[BlueHelmet]

Did anyone else use Eric Cartman's voice for the last panel?

I did, I'm afraid ...

[infiniteviking]

*DIES LAUGHING at the punchline*

The first panel is spectacular too -- lovely bullet-time moment there -- but I can't get over that punchline. The comic timing is perfect. Kudos!

[Hushdawg]

Well, Roy couldn't beat the Fortitude Save DC for nausea, but he made his save for Finger of Death.

Kinda makes you think, doesn't it?

Makes me think that Rich actually uses D20 rolls for things like this.

No matter how high your CON is, there's always a chance of rolling a 1

[silvadel]

Actually this is kind of a problem with the basic D&D class structure. I prefer the warmain from Monte Cooke's Arcana Evolved. It does a better job IMHO of class balance between the casters and the fighter types and those inbetween.

As for Roy failing his nausea save while making the finger of death one -- it is the power of plot. Having him fail finger of death would not be funny at all.... Having him fail nausea -- yep. I am not a big fan of "save or die" in RPGs... It isnt really "fair" to kill players that way who may have been playing very well up until that unlucky roll -- and it is even worse as a player because I have notorious bad luck in those situations... Actually back in the old AD&D when you had to roll for your equipment when you failed with a 1 -- I had a cleric/mage become completely naked (failed for my spellbook, armor, shield, weapon, ring, holy symbol -- it all was destroyed all at once). What was bad was after I got spells rescribed from the other mage in the party and all -- I failed the next adventure with a 1 and lost everything but my holy symbol(which didnt go that time) again. I was then nicknamed the magic destroyer and didnt last long in that campaign as my items were much worse than anyone elses and the rest of the party didnt want me to have any destructable items and the mage refused to let me copy the spells.

[Sir_Banjo]

"Hey ... wait a second. I know who you are now.

You're that guy!

The one who kept getting pissed off at me for not remembering ... something"

Along with Belkar's initiation into the barbarian's guild, this is officially one of my favourite strips.

[fractal]

I was sadly disappointed when Roy was able to jump on top of the dragon after I'd so painstakingly determined that for a non-epic character it was essentially impossible unless the dragon was flying right at the level of the wall. Someone on the last thread said that the PCs do it all the time in his campaign, and I wanted to know if that was feasible under the rules. It's not. The funny thing is that if he'd never posted that his players do it routinely I'd never have bothered to look up the jump rules and make the calculations, and I would have enjoyed this strip more.
Sure it's possible, at least for Roy.

First, we can't really tell whether or not he had a sufficient running start, but he certainly might have. Assume he did. He has Belkar's Ring of Jumping +20, a Strength bonus of probably about +5, and possibly 16 ranks in Jump. That's a +41 bonus. If he rolled, say, a 19, that would allow him to jump 15 feet up into the air. If Xykon was flying 10 feet above the crenelations (certainly higher than his previous pass, and a height he might assume was safe), Roy could easily leap onto the dragon, just as we see him do.

[CelestialStick]

Sure it's possible, at least for Roy.

First, we can't really tell whether or not he had a sufficient running start, but he certainly might have. Assume he did. He has Belkar's Ring of Jumping +20, a Strength bonus of probably about +5, and possibly 16 ranks in Jump. That's a +41 bonus. If he rolled, say, a 19, that would allow him to jump 15 feet up into the air. If Xykon was flying 10 feet above the crenelations (certainly higher than his previous pass, and a height he might assume was safe), Roy could easily leap onto the dragon, just as we see him do.

The dragon's body is about 6-8' tall. If the dragon were flying only 10' above the crenelations, Roy would have to jump 16-18 feet. To do a high jump of 16-18 feet with a 20-foot running start requires a Jump check DC of 64-72. Even with your hypothesized +41 bonus, he cannot make it. The dragon has a 15' reach with the bite, so there's not even a reason for it to fly that low. If you add another 5' to the jump, you add another 20 to the Jump check DC, making it 84-92. And if the dragon were just going to use Flyby Attack to breath on the party, it needn't even be within 15'. So yes, it's basically impossible for Roy, under the Jump mechanics, to jump onto its back, unless, as I said, the dragon were flying pretty close to the height of the wall (or the crenallations, if you prefer). :smallsmile:

[JetTheOne]

The dragon's body is about 6-8' tall. If the dragon were flying only 10' above the crenelations, Roy would have to jump 16-18 feet. To do a high jump of 16-18 feet with a 20-foot running start requires a Jump check DC of 64-72. Even with your hypothesized +41 bonus, he cannot make it. The dragon has a 15' reach with the bite, so there's not even a reason for it to fly that low. If you add another 5' to the jump, you add another 20 to the Jump check DC, making it 84-92. And if the dragon were just going to use Flyby Attack to breath on the party, it needn't even be within 15'. So yes, it's basically impossible for Roy, under the Jump mechanics, to jump onto its back, unless, as I said, the dragon were flying pretty close to the height of the wall (or the crenallations, if you prefer). :smallsmile:


See, but that doesn't matter... just like how the men became monster sized to fill the void and Durkon become gigantic beyond spell limits... it's all magic

plus the Giant uses his Giant powers... so anything else is irrelevant

[OperationTREX]

The first panel has a very cinematic feel, even though they are stick people, my brain is filling in the gaps and I can see flesh and blood characters in my mind.

Kudus for stirring my imagination with your art Rich, I'm moved.

[pedrokraemer]

Xykon isn´t a girl....

Otherwise, Redcloack wouldn´t call him "sir" all the time...

[Noneoyabizzness]

such is the glory of story based fight scenes

elan had his, then hinjo, now roy

[redforty]

ZOMG! That last panel was HILARIOUS!!
"...something."

AWESOME!

[Horned]

Without question, this is the best dialogue to date.

[fractal]

The dragon's body is about 6-8' tall. If the dragon were flying only 10' above the crenelations, Roy would have to jump 16-18 feet. To do a high jump of 16-18 feet with a 20-foot running start requires a Jump check DC of 64-72. Even with your hypothesized +41 bonus, he cannot make it. The dragon has a 15' reach with the bite, so there's not even a reason for it to fly that low. If you add another 5' to the jump, you add another 20 to the Jump check DC, making it 84-92. And if the dragon were just going to use Flyby Attack to breath on the party, it needn't even be within 15'. So yes, it's basically impossible for Roy, under the Jump mechanics, to jump onto its back, unless, as I said, the dragon were flying pretty close to the height of the wall (or the crenallations, if you prefer). :smallsmile:
The crenellations are 5' high, it looks like; 10' above the crenellations is 15' above the wall. Any higher than that, and the dragon won't necessarily be able to attack people standing on the wall. Furthermore, that's how low the dragon's head needs to be; given the relatively narrow neck, Roy shouldn't have to jump much higher than that. A 20' (5' crenellation + 60 Jump check) jump is more than adequate.

Additionally, if it really mattered, I could probably squeeze another foot or two out of Roy's jump. Any more than that would require a poorly optimized build for combat, though; maybe that's what Xykon was talking about! :smallwink:

And no, probably Xykon shouldn't have been flying low enough for Roy to possibly jump on, but that doesn't mean he wasn't. We've seen him do riskier things in the past, and 15' up should have been safe from melee attacks without reach.

By the way, I don't think zombies can use Flyby Attack, and there is also some question over whether or not a zombie dragon has a breath weapon.

[pendell]

Xykon isn´t a girl....

Otherwise, Redcloack wouldn´t call him "sir" all the time...

Not necessarily.

I may be one of the few people here old enough to remember the Peanuts comic strip, but female Marcie always called female Peppermint Patty "sir". I wonder about them two...

Not that I have any real doubts about Xykon. Although what sex has to do with a dead creature is, again, a matter of some debate. Possibly under "sex" on his driver's license application Xykon might very well put down "none".

Now if you young'uns will excuse me, I need to go find my false teeth ... creak, creak ...

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[the_tick_rules]

zombies loose all feats and only have toughness. they loose all special attacks. they also can only move or attack a round but not both. zombie creatures suck, he's just using it cause he needed something to fly and he had a dead silver dragon handy.

[mlund]

I'd like to see Roy sunder Xylon's saddle with good, old fashioned PC cheese. I wonder if Xykon can even cast Teleport. Feather Fall would be kind of amusing too.

On that note, I hope someone has a good plan to help Roy down from the back of the zombie dragon without it involving 20d6 falling damage, though. V seems to be out of position to hit Roy with Feather Fall. Maybe grapple Xykon after cutting the saddle and use his inevitable Feather Fall as a parachute?

- Marty Lund

[Glome]

Not necessarily.

I may be one of the few people here old enough to remember the Peanuts comic strip, but female Marcie always called female Peppermint Patty "sir". I wonder about them two...



You should check out mostoffensivevideos.com where they overdubbed Charlie Brown Cartoons in Ebonics. They also made Peppermint Patty and Marcie into lesbians and potrayed Marcy as being retarded.

[skinkatlarge]

I wonder if Xykon can even cast Teleport.
#192 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0192.html) seems to be evidence that he can teleport, though it's not conclusive.

[Ozmandious]

I feel Roy's pain. I have had similar conversations with my children. "I'm mad at you why?"
"Because I opened the portal to... puppy!"
"Aaagh!"