Melee Binder help

[Val666]

Hello playgrounders

Im buidling a melee binder for a friend. For the moment it look's like this:

Binder 9/ Knight of the Sacred Seal 5/ Binder +6

This ends with 16 bab as usual. His patron vestige would be Chupoclops. Im really lost in this topic but he told me that binding Chupoclops, Geryon and Ronove was his goal. Any suggestions on feat/combos and ways to improve this?

Stats not rolled yet, everything open including dragon magazine.

Thanks everyone :v!

[Extra Anchovies]

What's your combat strategy? Savnok, Halphax, and Euronyme are great for tanking, Paimon makes for a nice skirmisher, Chupoclops, Amon, and Ipos can grant some nice natural weapons, Zagan is an awesome grappler; there are a lot of approaches you can take.

[WhamBamSam]

First off, it needs to be Binder 10/KoSS 5/Binder +5 to get Chupoclops as a patron vestige. 6th level vestiges come online at EBL 12.

He's probably better off just flying with WBL than using Geryon.

If you don't mind cheese, you can actually get flight for one charge of a CL15 Scroll of Polymorph (used while bound to Karsus) or having Polymorph cast on you by a 15th level caster, and a few low level spells. As a KoSS 5 you're an Outsider, so you can take the form of a Sibriex from the FC1. You then bind Astaroth (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070307a) to get Graft Flesh (Fiendish Grafts) (you'll have the Outsider (Evil) typing while under the effects of the polymorph spell, which should be enough to count as a fiend, though the term is sort of ill defined) and use the Sibriex's ability to make Fiendish Grafts as a full round action with no gp or XP costs, meaning as long as you can get the necessary spells provided, you can make yourself Feathered Wings at no charge.

EDIT: The Sibriex thing actually also requires Assume Supernatural Ability or Metamorphic Transfer. You might not qualify for Assume Supernatural Ability, but if your Wis is at least 13, you qualify for Metamorphic Transfer while bound to one of the Psionic Vestiges (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070119a). Still, even with a few Psychic Reformations added to your price tag, you'd be well under 1/5 the normal price.

Even if that's too cheesy, regular means of buying flight are better than something that only works once every 5 rounds.

I guess Geryon's gaze attack is also sort of a thing, but it seems that he ought to be able to get more out of that vestige slot.

[(Un)Inspired]

I'm a fan of mixing Focalor and Chupoclops then going into melee and making all your enemies hate themselves.

[Extra Anchovies]

Orthos also kicks ass for a combat binder. But then, Orthos is good for any sort of binder. Always bind Orthos. Blindsight = good, 1d6/level untyped uncapped damage in a 60-foot cone, plus knocking people prone = good, mile/level range near-silent communication = good, continuous displacement = awesome. It's up there with Zceryll as far as frickin' awesome vestiges go. It's a nice choice for Knight of the Sacred Seal if you're starting at high level.

I also have a soft spot for Otiax, but that's probably in large part due to how cool his name is.

[Val666]

What's your combat strategy? Savnok, Halphax, and Euronyme are great for tanking, Paimon makes for a nice skirmisher, Chupoclops, Amon, and Ipos can grant some nice natural weapons, Zagan is an awesome grappler; there are a lot of approaches you can take.

Uhmmm our tank slot is already filled with a crusader, so my friend wants to be damage dealer. No grappling (he hates it) and about the skirmisher, he doesn't like that sort of things (his swift hunter died horribly once) so I think going strength is the thing. Maybe a natural attack barrage?


First off, it needs to be Binder 10/KoSS 5/Binder +5 to get Chupoclops as a patron vestige. 6th level vestiges come online at EBL 12.

Uhmm...But..KoSS advances soul binding...Binder 9/KoSS 1 is the same as Binder 10 .-.


He's probably better off just flying with WBL than using Geryon.

What the wanted to try/ask is while bound to Geryon and Ronove use the swift flight and then descend with slowfall ahahahha Dx.


If you don't mind cheese, you can actually get flight for one charge of a CL15 Scroll of Polymorph (used while bound to Karsus) or having Polymorph cast on you by a 15th level caster, and a few low level spells. As a KoSS 5 you're an Outsider, so you can take the form of a Sibriex from the FC1. You then bind Astaroth (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070307a) to get Graft Flesh (Fiendish Grafts) (you'll have the Outsider (Evil) typing while under the effects of the polymorph spell, which should be enough to count as a fiend, though the term is sort of ill defined) and use the Sibriex's ability to make Fiendish Grafts as a full round action with no gp or XP costs, meaning as long as you can get the necessary spells provided, you can make yourself Feathered Wings at no charge.

Report Cheese...


I'm a fan of mixing Focalor and Chupoclops then going into melee and making all your enemies hate themselves.

Thats pretty cool actually o.o

[Val666]

Orthos also kicks ass for a combat binder. But then, Orthos is good for any sort of binder. Always bind Orthos. Blindsight = good, 1d6/level untyped uncapped damage in a 60-foot cone, plus knocking people prone = good, mile/level range near-silent communication = good, continuous displacement = awesome. It's up there with Zceryll as far as frickin' awesome vestiges go. It's a nice choice for Knight of the Sacred Seal if you're starting at high level.

I also have a soft spot for Otiax, but that's probably in large part due to how cool his name is.

Orthos op Dx yeah...he thought about Zceryll a lot but decided not to use her in this game..he really wants to be a melee binder and Zceryll is more like a...summoner? I know with her bound you still make a powwerful fighter but...he won't bind Zceryll Dx

[FearlessGnome]

Uhmm...But..KoSS advances soul binding...Binder 9/KoSS 1 is the same as Binder 10 .-.


No. You need to qualify for a prestige class before you enter it. Just like you can't enter the ones with BAB +5 requirement when you level up to level 5, you can't enter one that requires you to be able to bind a vestige you get access to at level 10 at level 10.

[WhamBamSam]

No. You need to qualify for a prestige class before you enter it. Just like you can't enter the ones with BAB +5 requirement when you level up to level 5, you can't enter one that requires you to be able to bind a vestige you get access to at level 10 at level 10.Well, you qualify for KoSS at that point. He's suggesting that because you gain the Soul Binding progression at the same time you get the Patron Vestige ability, you would indeed have the EBL to bind Chupoclops at the time of choesing a patron. However, Patron Vestige specifies a "vestige that you have previously bound," so you have to have had the ability to bind Chupoclops before gaining the first level of KoSS.