[3.5] 1-round mind-affecting immunity as swift action X/day

[hymer]

How useful would this (1-round mind-affecting immunity as swift action X/day) be, as an Exceptional ability? I have a homebrew thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?384277-Boons-for-PCs-3-5-PEACH) for some boons to grant to PCs, and I've been informed so far that it's basically worthless (that may be rather rhetorical, though). I happen to think it isn't, as it means, e.g., an easy check for phantasms and it can be used against a lot of Shaken conditions. But my players may have a similar reaction if they see it, and I'd like to be able to point to some things you can use this sort of ability for.
What other uses can you guys think of? Any other thoughts, suggestions, comments, etc.? Thanks in advance.

[frogglesmash]

Seems like it should be activated as an immediate action.

[The Viscount]

Exactly what I was going to say. It's difficult to know when a mind affecting effect will come up, and transitioning to immediate turns an awkward guard into a mini-IHS.

[hymer]

I appreciate the comments, guys, but it's a swift action and it will remain so.

[Gullintanni]

I appreciate the comments, guys, but it's a swift action and it will remain so.

Then...probably not all that useful TBH. Unless you can predict on precisely which rounds you're going to get hit with a mind-affecting attack, you're not likely to get much mileage out of the ability.

I suppose in a fight with a Mind Flayer, or similar opponent, you could use this ability a few times and probably spare yourself some grief.

As a swift action, it's situationally (and rarely) beneficial. Strictly speaking, if I had to choose between this, and Iron Will as a feat, I'd take Iron Will.

[Endless Query]

Also, given how you have it set up, what you may want to design it as, instead, is "breaks all currently mind affecting things on the character as a swift action x/day" that, say, the character can instinctively use if something starts to mess with their mind that would keep them from activating it (say a charm or a dominate). If the basic idea of the feature is to permit limited exposure to mind affecting stuff x times per day, I feel as though this would serve the purpose better (though you may want to tone down the number of uses since they only have to use it against things they fail their save for rather than against anything in advanced).

[mabriss lethe]

Is there a particular reason why you're dead set against switching it from swift to immediate?

As a swift action, it isn't terribly worthwhile. You basically just throw it up and hope that's the round they try to dominate you. On the off chance it catches something, great. Otherwise you've just burned one of your daily uses for no reason. A case *could* be made for using it to cancel an existing effect, but there's a major wrinkle with that sort of use. Once you've been hit with it, there's a decent chance that your character will no longer have the volition necessary to activate a swift action in combat, be it sleep, charm, dominate, etc.

As an immediate action, you get to use it exactly when you need it. It preserves daily uses since you don't have to guess. It also shuts down effects before they're triggered, which allows it to be used against a much wider array of effects.

[frogglesmash]

If you're not willing to make it a swift action you might want to consider extending its duration and reducing the amount of uses per day.

[hymer]

Then...probably not all that useful TBH. Unless you can predict on precisely which rounds you're going to get hit with a mind-affecting attack, you're not likely to get much mileage out of the ability.

I suppose in a fight with a Mind Flayer, or similar opponent, you could use this ability a few times and probably spare yourself some grief.

As a swift action, it's situationally (and rarely) beneficial. Strictly speaking, if I had to choose between this, and Iron Will as a feat, I'd take Iron Will.

Mind flayers and aboleths, good ones, thanks!
It's not supposed to be comparable to Iron Will, though. If you want to see the whole picture, you can follow the link in the first post.


Also, given how you have it set up, what you may want to design it as, instead, is "breaks all currently mind affecting things on the character as a swift action x/day" that, say, the character can instinctively use if something starts to mess with their mind that would keep them from activating it (say a charm or a dominate). If the basic idea of the feature is to permit limited exposure to mind affecting stuff x times per day, I feel as though this would serve the purpose better (though you may want to tone down the number of uses since they only have to use it against things they fail their save for rather than against anything in advanced).

Thanks for he comment! But I'm actually happy with the effect being situational. Breaking charms and such would make it better than I want it to be.


Is there a particular reason why you're dead set against switching it from swift to immediate?

As a swift action, it isn't terribly worthwhile. You basically just throw it up and hope that's the round they try to dominate you. On the off chance it catches something, great. Otherwise you've just burned one of your daily uses for no reason. A case *could* be made for using it to cancel an existing effect, but there's a major wrinkle with that sort of use. Once you've been hit with it, there's a decent chance that your character will no longer have the volition necessary to activate a swift action in combat, be it sleep, charm, dominate, etc.

As an immediate action, you get to use it exactly when you need it. It preserves daily uses since you don't have to guess. It also shuts down effects before they're triggered, which allows it to be used against a much wider array of effects.

Thanks for taking the time!
There are specific reasons for not having it be an immediate action. It's too powerful, and it doesn't fit the bill. You can check the link in the OP if you want to see the whole picture.
I agree that to completely avoid, say, a charm effect, you would have to predict when it was coming. If you inadverdently activated it after the effect had started, you would only be free of the effect for that round, and it'd kick back in after. That's how I want it.


If you're not willing to make it a swift action you might want to consider extending its duration and reducing the amount of uses per day.

Thanks again. :smallsmile: I guess you mean Immediate, still? If you can spare a moment, please follow the link in the OP and look at what the ability really is, and what it's supposed to be have a similar usefulness to.

[GreyBlack]

Having read the ability in question, I would say it is essentially useless. While the ability to recover a level 1 or 0 spell may see some play (assuming a non-5 minute work day), getting rid of shaken or frightened will see near-zero play. If I were you, I would split the boon in two; one half being the spell recovery, the other being an immediate action immunity to mind affecting effects once per day.

[Fax Celestis]

Why not make it into a roll against an ongoing effect, a la disobedience?

[hymer]

Having read the ability in question, I would say it is essentially useless. While the ability to recover a level 1 or 0 spell may see some play (assuming a non-5 minute work day), getting rid of shaken or frightened will see near-zero play. If I were you, I would split the boon in two; one half being the spell recovery, the other being an immediate action immunity to mind affecting effects once per day.

Thanks for the comment! And my bad for linking two threads. But in this one I'd like to discuss the uses of the 1-round mind-affecting immunity as swift action part.
But your comment on the whole thing is duly noted. Any further discussion should go in the appropriate thread and subforum, I think.


Why not make it into a roll against an ongoing effect, a la disobedience?

Thanks for replying!
I don't know that effect. Where can I find it? Though... This seems a little like a comment that should go in the other thread, perhaps?

[Fax Celestis]

Sorry, I'm thinking of the wrong spell. Disobedience is in CScn and allows you to trick the caster of a dominate into thinking it worked. Moment of clarity, what I was actually thinking of, does this:


You feel a dark, oppressive weight pressing against your mind. When you touch your target, the weight lifts. The creature you touched seems now to be battling with a similar oppression.

When you cast this spell and touch a creature that is under the influence of a mind-affecting spell or ability, that creature immediately receives another saving throw against the effect's original DC to break free of the effect. If the spell or ability did not originally permit a saving throw, this spell has no effect.

...except make it a swift action usable even when a mind-affecting effect would normally make you unable to do so, and personal-range rather than touch.

It's in SC. Paladin 1 spell.

[GreyBlack]

Thanks for the comment! And my bad for linking two threads. But in this one I'd like to discuss the uses of the 1-round mind-affecting immunity as swift action part.
But your comment on the whole thing is duly noted. Any further discussion should go in the appropriate thread and subforum, I think.


Fair enough. Uses? Really not much. You can maybe get a mental debuff off you, perhaps kill a shaken or frightened status. Other than that, you're kind of boned. As above, it could be situationally useful, but overall kind of meh.

[Urpriest]

How useful would this (1-round mind-affecting immunity as swift action X/day) be, as an Exceptional ability? I have a homebrew thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?384277-Boons-for-PCs-3-5-PEACH) for some boons to grant to PCs, and I've been informed so far that it's basically worthless (that may be rather rhetorical, though). I happen to think it isn't, as it means, e.g., an easy check for phantasms and it can be used against a lot of Shaken conditions. But my players may have a similar reaction if they see it, and I'd like to be able to point to some things you can use this sort of ability for.
What other uses can you guys think of? Any other thoughts, suggestions, comments, etc.? Thanks in advance.

Missed this. How the heck are you supposed to use it against phantasms? The vast majority I know about are instantaneous, and one round's immunity won't do much against the longer-lasting ones.

[ZamielVanWeber]

I would honestly... never take this. Situational immunity that requires me to predict it right before it happens is useless is so many situations I would sooner take a +1 to Will since that will be more generically useful.