Monk Help

[jlousivy]

Alright I just joined a pbp game and i'm a 1st level human monk.
so feat wise i've chosen
dodge
combat expertise
my lvl 3 feat will be karmic strike

yeah, basicly he likes to feel pain. I know that this isn't an 'optimal build' nor do i want to hear that monks are underpowered(or overpowered).

That being said, what are good PrC's for him? (my dm is allowing him to be NG for alignment purposes). Not enlightened fist, because I don't plan on taking any spellcaster levels. He's more of a martial artist than a standard 'monk' so i was thinking of ducking out after flurry finishes (possibly earlier)

sorry if there's already a thread along these lines, but i did a search and couldn't really find nay.

PHB, DMG, MM, PHB II, and ECS, as well as Complete Arcane, Complete Mage, Complete Adventurer, Complete Divine, Complete Warrior, Expanded Psionics Handbook, Complete Psionic, Sharn: City of Towers, Lords of Madness, Heroes of Horror, Races of Eberron, Libris Mortis, Tome of Battle, Tome of Magic, and Magic of Incarnum.

Are the books we are allowed to choose from. It's an Eberron game.

Many thanks in advance

[Zincorium]

Well, good monk PrCs aren't all that common, most of the actually beneficial ones are for characters who are partially monk, partially something else, like Fist of Zuoken, Sacred Fist, Enlightened Fist, and Argent Fist (anyone else seeing a pattern here?). For psionic characters, divine casters, arcane casters, and paladins, respectively.

Drunken Master, tattooed monk, and Reaping Mauler are the only specifically monk-like classes, and they've got their own weird quirks which you'll have to examine.

Me? I like taking versatile unarmed strike and going into Dervish. Flurry of blows and moving? Yes please.

[brian c]

Drunken Master is great, but it depends on whether or not your campaign spends a lot of time with you in bar fights. If so, then go Drunken Master; if not then maybe consider other options. Tattooed monk is a pretty good one too.

[Cybren]

Obligatory "be a swordsage" comment

[marjan]

You can go Kensai.

[Ranis]

Drunken Master is great, but it depends on whether or not your campaign spends a lot of time with you in bar fights. If so, then go Drunken Master; if not then maybe consider other options. Tattooed monk is a pretty good one too.

Um, no? The class isn't dependent upon being in a bar to function, it just depends on you being drunk.

That said, the Tatooed Monk is broken when played correctly.

[Zincorium]

Um, no? The class isn't dependent upon being in a bar to function, it just depends on you being drunk.


Right. Carry a lot of booze with you. You're not encumbered if you drink it, right? :smallbiggrin:



That said, the Tatooed Monk is broken when played correctly.

I would really, really like to see your reasoning on this. At best, the vast majority of tattoos either replicate abilities lost due to not progressing as a monk (spell resistance, DR/magic, not aging), allow very temporary combat bonuses that take a move action to activate, or give enhancement bonuses to ability scores. They're generally better than what the monk is going to get, in at least offering more freedom, but they're very far from game breaking unless you think that monks are already overpowered (in which case you should read back on some of the monk vs spellcaster threads). Also, once you choose a tattoo, that's it. You don't get to shift between them.

[brian c]

Um, no? The class isn't dependent upon being in a bar to function, it just depends on you being drunk.

That said, the Tatooed Monk is broken when played correctly.

I should clarify; I'm not saying that it's dependent on you being in a bar, just that such a situation increases the effectiveness of the class ability "Greater Improvised Weapons" (Improvised Weapons do unarmed damage + 1d8)

[Attilargh]

Provided a GM has any consideration towards the player of a Drunken Master, the latter will probably find all sorts of buckets, ladders, tools, sticks, rocks, wagon wheels, fruit, dishes, small animals and other materials to utilise in a fight.

[the_tick_rules]

pain touch from complete warrior, for one round after they are stunned they are nauseated, allowing only a single move action. Earth's embrace from same book, makes your pin a death grip. improved natural attack from MM, makes ya attacks just that much deadlier.

From book of exalted deeds it's like santify martial strike then holy martial strike, or something close to that. with the second feat your fists become as holy enchantmented weapons, bypassing Good DR and doing 2d6 holy damage.

[PinkysBrain]

Make a decisive strike monk, it works better with AoOs.

I've just posted some stuff about an AoO monk build on the character builder threat.

[Ramza00]

Okay remember with the drunken master a couple of things, your unarmed damage stacks with the improvised weapons. Thus an amulet of mighty fists is your friend (which according to the magic item articles on the website should cost 1/3rd less the cost due to it using an amulet slot, if you move it to the more appropriate slot). Additionally size increases are your friend. 2d10 with 4 size increases is 12d8. You don't have the best size increaser greater mighty wallop due to books, but you do have improved natural attack, and if I recall magic of incarnum has a good way to do size increases of your natural attacks involving incarnum.

Also remember you can do ungodly reach with how the improvised weapons rules are set up. A 30 ft chain will give you 30 ft reach even if you are medium size. Make your improvised weapon a piece of rope (which is free) and a horseshoe or something, there is effectively no cost. Sure your weapon breaks on a natural 20, but you can have multiple weapons in your bag of holding.

[marjan]

For feats consider Intuitive Strike from Complete Adventurer if your wisdom is high enough (which it should be).

[jlousivy]

i checked out INA http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Improved_Natural_Attack, but it said i needed natural armor... typo or do i need to find a way to get natural armour?

[marjan]

It is mystake. You need Natural Attack. For core feats you should check out SRD (http://www.d20srd.org). Improved Natural Attack is in Monster Feats section.

[Hzurr]

You can go Kensai.

Ooohh...Kensai.

Kensai monks are Scary.

[marjan]

Ooohh...Kensai.

Kensai monks are Scary.

And at least you'll save some money on Amulet of Fists.

[DaMullet]

Pardon my ignorance, but in which supplement would I discover the Drunken Master? It strikes my fancy and I'd like to take a look at it.

[Attilargh]

Complete Warrior, page 27. It's a rather entertaining class.

[Quietus]

Drunken Master is great... Monk's Belt makes up for some lost levels, in that case, too - at least as far as unarmed strikes go. Which stacks nicly with the 1d12 your improvised weapons add.

Also consider a kama or war fan-weilding dervish. Moving, while making a flurry of blows, with lots of bonuses on damage. War fans are in Arms and Equipment, while Dervish is in Complete Warrior.

For a pure core-based char, you could take Monk12/Ftr8, to pick up a pile of extra feats, plus Weapon Specialization and Greater Weapon Specialization, while also getting a BAB of 17, plus full flurry. Sure, you can't use the armor being a Fighter gives you, but you gain access to extra weapons just in case, and an extra 5 feats for kicks.


I'd like to point out that taking Combat Expertise isn't really all that helpful, if you're going for a build that takes damage then dishes it back ou... out. Wow. Ghostwalker, I think the prestige class is called? It's another build that's based around being a very mysterious character, and if you take enough damage in a fight, you get super bonuses against that enemy. Not helpful if you tend to fight a lot of small enemies at once, but if your DM has a thing for throwing big monsters at you, you can get your Painful Reckoning on.

[martyboy74]

I'd like to point out that taking Combat Expertise isn't really all that helpful, if you're going for a build that takes damage then dishes it back ou... out.
Actually, it is. Karmic Strike gives you an AoO an an enemy that hits you. That's not very useful if you don't actually get the extra attacks (well, unless you took the stormguard warrior feat).

[Zincorium]

Actually, it is. Karmic Strike gives you an AoO an an enemy that hits you. That's not very useful if you don't actually get the extra attacks (well, unless you took the stormguard warrior feat).

Right. You're arguing the other side here. Combat expertise makes it harder for them to hit you, preventing you from using Karmic Strike, and making it much harder for you to hit them yourself. It's a bad combo.

[martyboy74]

Right. You're arguing the other side here. Combat expertise makes it harder for them to hit you, preventing you from using Karmic Strike, and making it much harder for you to hit them yourself. It's a bad combo.
Dman. You're right. I was thinking of Comabt Reflexes. That'd be the one to have.

[PinkysBrain]

Martyboy is confusing combat expertise with combat reflexes, and quietus and zincorium aren't aware combat expertise is a prerequisite for karmic strike.

I assume jlousivy got combat reflexes from his bonus feats.

[Zincorium]

Martyboy is confusing combat expertise with combat reflexes, and quietus and zincorium aren't aware combat expertise is a prerequisite for karmic strike.

Right. Don't cast aspersions if you don't have something to base them on. I was able to discover combat expertise was a prerequisite rather quickly when I looked up karmic strike. I find that prevents most really stupid arguments, like pretty much anything involving monkey grip.

They're a bad combo in that you shouldn't use combat expertise when trying to make the most of karmic strike, why being fairly clear.

[marjan]

Combat Experise is also prerequisite for Elusive Target which might prove useful for this guy.

[Quietus]

.... why, why, WHY would combat expertise be a prerequisite for Karmic Strike? And no, you're right, I didn't know that it was, my mistake. I can see that, now. I can see Combat Reflexes being a good choice for Karmic's prereq, but Expertise? Meh, whatever.

And I would assume that he'll pick up Combat Reflexes with his second level bonus feat. Being level 1, I highly doubt he's got it yet. ;)

[jlousivy]

you're right, it makes absolutely no sense to put combat expertise up with karmic strike seeing how they have two opposite effects

it's my lvl 2 feat (combat reflexes)
lvl 6 i'm getting low blow & imp trip

that way.. the person i have as my dodge opponent....
if they miss-- i trip
if they hit-- i attack

drunken master can fit.. but...
kensai vs drunken master.. what are the pros/cons (or would it almost be better to go straight monk?)

[marjan]

I like kensai more. Through its class abilities you can make your fists +10 weapons, if you have high enough concentration you can use Whitstand (concentration check instead of reflex save - meaning you don't auto-fail on one), some bonus on social skills, +8 STR as move action (which is good for grapple checks if you go that route) couple of times per day (which is only limited by your concentration checks) and that nice aura at lvl 10. Though its only good saves are Will you can substitute your reflex with concentration and fall behind a bit with fortitude and you get d10 HD.
On the drunken master I can't say much since I never looked at it quite closely.

[Quietus]

The difference is primarily in the flavor; With one, you can enhance your fists to awesome levels of craziness, and with the other, you weild anything at hand as a lethal weapon. The +10 effective enhancement in exchange for the exp you spend on it is pretty awesome, and mechanics-wise, the Kensai is the more powerful option. The Drunken Master is more of a flavor choice - instead of being specifically known for facepwning with flaming fists, you get to be known for drinking too much and getting extremely strong or hard to take down, while hitting people with anything in arm's reach. At later levels you can use Cure Moderate Wounds on yourself 3/day, and breathe a gout of flame (3d12, reflex half at 10+drunken master levels+con I think) any time you have a drink's worth of alcohol in you.

[Talya]

Me? I like taking versatile unarmed strike and going into Dervish. Flurry of blows and moving? Yes please.

Allow me to just say...damn...I'd never thought of that...that's my next melee build.

[Falconsflight]

My preference with a N-G monk would be to grab some levels of barbarian Mainly becuase the only thing scarier than a monk is a raging monk.

And if you want a Prestige class, you can grab Frenzied Berserker if ya want. It is interesting, but may not be your cup of tea.

[jlousivy]

hmmm... i might go that kensai route, whilie i like the improvised weaponry of drunken master-- the whole drunken part doesn't suit his character-- at least not yet. thank you all :-)

[crazedloon]

Also remember you can do ungodly reach with how the improvised weapons rules are set up. A 30 ft chain will give you 30 ft reach even if you are medium size. Make your improvised weapon a piece of rope (which is free) and a horseshoe or something, there is effectively no cost. Sure your weapon breaks on a natural 20, but you can have multiple weapons in your bag of holding.

where are you getting these rules :smalleek:

I always thought that the item just meant it had reach not that it gained a ungodly amount of reach becuase 1000 ft of rope with whirelwind attack would be ungodly

[Ramza00]

where are you getting these rules :smalleek:

I always thought that the item just meant it had reach not that it gained a ungodly amount of reach becuase 1000 ft of rope with whirelwind attack would be ungodly

"Improved Improvised Weapons (Ex): A drunken master of 4th level or higher can use long improvised weapons (such as ladders) as reach weapons according to their length, and improvised weapons with many protrusions (such as chairs) provide a +2 bonus on opponents’ disarm attempts. Finally, large objects with broad, fl at surfaces (such as tables) can be upended to become improvised tower shields."

Now a 1000 ft chain and the DM will hit you with hard with his DMG. 30 ft would probably be more than most DMs will allow. 20 will probably be a maximum.

[Quietus]

Also keep in mind that whirlwind attack only lets you attack everything within 5 feet of you. To attack EVERYTHING you threaten, you need Improved Whirlwind Attack, which is epic. Plus, as a DM, I'd style things like that after whips and refuse to allow attacks of opportunity with ranged weapons.

[Behold_the_Void]

I'm rather fond of the Fist of Zuoken (Psionic Fist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/psionicFist.htm)). You retain unarmed strike progression and then pick up Psychic Warrior-like power progression, with a few bonus Psionic feats. It's pretty nice.

[marjan]

My preference with a N-G monk would be to grab some levels of barbarian Mainly becuase the only thing scarier than a monk is a raging monk.

And if you want a Prestige class, you can grab Frenzied Berserker if ya want. It is interesting, but may not be your cup of tea.

Monks have to be lawful, while barbarians cannot be lawful so it won't work without house-ruling.

[Indon]

Monks have to be lawful, while barbarians cannot be lawful so it won't work without house-ruling.

You retain monk abilities if you stop being lawful; of course, you can no longer level as a monk anymore.

[Overlard]

I've always wondered something about drunken masters:

Do their improvised weapons get the bonuses their unarmed strikes normally do (presuming they have enough monk levels)? Counting as magic/lawful/adamantine vs DR, getting the benefits from an amulet of fists and so on.

[Hypothetical]

Well, I don't know if this will help you, since you've already chosen your first Feats, but I have my brand spanking new, just leveled to 2, Monk planned out.

As my first Feat, I chose Sacred Vow ( to a LG God you will never have heard of because it's Homebrew).

I'm going to level my Monk to 14. ( 14 is the magic number for that 4th attack.)

My 2nd Feat will be Vow of Non-Violence. My 3rd Feat will be Vow of Poverty. ( Take a close look at the bonuses of those Feats, and then read on. Keeping in mind, the Base Class is Monk.)

At Level 14, I'm going to PrC to Apostle of Peace. ( 2 Bounus to Diplomacy for Sacred Vow, and by level 14, at least 6, if not 8, Ranks in Diplomacy on top of that.)

Hey, My GM ( see the "Bad times to roll a natural 20" thread) made a comment when we were disscussing the beginnings of this new game. He said ( to paraphrase) that he had never had one of his Players try to go the AoP route, because it is not easy. I love a challange like that. Sure, playing a high powered Wizard, or Tanking Fighter, is nice, but I love running characters that are oddball, to force my GMs to think about the game they are running beyond simply "OK, you guys will go in, Nuke this target, and then get some XP/GP".

As an AoP, who's Primary Godess, of Chance, has been gone for 16,000 years, and who's revealed Godess is one of Love and Compassion, he's really going to have to think out his plots. The best part is, the GM in question has already shown me, in our first little six hour session, that he is up to the task of giving me a good game, in which we are both going to have to be thinking all the time. Add in the fact that the rest of the party we are working on getting together have been gaming with him for years, and from what he has told me are right up there in the whole "Give the GM a headache trying to keep up with us" game, and I foresee many many sessions up ahead that will be both exciting and interesting.

[NullAshton]

Also keep in mind that whirlwind attack only lets you attack everything within 5 feet of you. To attack EVERYTHING you threaten, you need Improved Whirlwind Attack, which is epic. Plus, as a DM, I'd style things like that after whips and refuse to allow attacks of opportunity with ranged weapons.

" When you use the full attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#fullAttack) action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your full base attack bonus against each opponent within reach."

You do, indeed, get to attack everything you threaten. Reach weapons do indeed extend your reach and let you attack more opponents.

Psionic Fist in the SRD is pretty cool. Hustle + Dimensional Slide + full attack is a nice combo.

You might also try using Empathic Feedback. At level 10 of Psionic Fist, for every time they hit you your enemy takes 10 points of damage, with no save.

And... you can also pick up Expanded Knowledge to get any psionic power 4th level or lower. There's some non-cheesy ways to use this, like Share Pain with a friendly tank for even more karmic justice. Or... you could get something like Metamorphosis at 9th or 10th level, which is basically a psionic form of Polymorph.

[Ramza00]

I've always wondered something about drunken masters:

Do their improvised weapons get the bonuses their unarmed strikes normally do (presuming they have enough monk levels)? Counting as magic/lawful/adamantine vs DR, getting the benefits from an amulet of fists and so on.
Correct

Inserts text to make minimum requirements.

[Ramza00]

Well, I don't know if this will help you, since you've already chosen your first Feats, but I have my brand spanking new, just leveled to 2, Monk planned out.

As my first Feat, I chose Sacred Vow ( to a LG God you will never have heard of because it's Homebrew).

I'm going to level my Monk to 14. ( 14 is the magic number for that 4th attack.)

My 2nd Feat will be Vow of Non-Violence. My 3rd Feat will be Vow of Poverty. ( Take a close look at the bonuses of those Feats, and then read on. Keeping in mind, the Base Class is Monk.)

At Level 14, I'm going to PrC to Apostle of Peace. ( 2 Bounus to Diplomacy for Sacred Vow, and by level 14, at least 6, if not 8, Ranks in Diplomacy on top of that.)

Hey, My GM ( see the "Bad times to roll a natural 20" thread) made a comment when we were disscussing the beginnings of this new game. He said ( to paraphrase) that he had never had one of his Players try to go the AoP route, because it is not easy. I love a challange like that. Sure, playing a high powered Wizard, or Tanking Fighter, is nice, but I love running characters that are oddball, to force my GMs to think about the game they are running beyond simply "OK, you guys will go in, Nuke this target, and then get some XP/GP".

As an AoP, who's Primary Godess, of Chance, has been gone for 16,000 years, and who's revealed Godess is one of Love and Compassion, he's really going to have to think out his plots. The best part is, the GM in question has already shown me, in our first little six hour session, that he is up to the task of giving me a good game, in which we are both going to have to be thinking all the time. Add in the fact that the rest of the party we are working on getting together have been gaming with him for years, and from what he has told me are right up there in the whole "Give the GM a headache trying to keep up with us" game, and I foresee many many sessions up ahead that will be both exciting and interesting.

Hypothetical, I am warning you soon monsters who shoot flames and lasers are going to come out and flame you on why monk with vow of poverty and nonviolence is bad (vop is bad just for you, vow of nonviolence hurts the party for they take penalties).

*Hides behind a concrete barrier with wholes in it so he can watch, munches popcorn*

[Falconsflight]

As a reply to Marjon and Indon... The guy already said he was house ruled to having a N-G monk. Thsu leveling as a barbarian is okay. At least, it should be.

[Zincorium]

Well, I don't know if this will help you, since you've already chosen your first Feats, but I have my brand spanking new, just leveled to 2, Monk planned out.

As my first Feat, I chose Sacred Vow ( to a LG God you will never have heard of because it's Homebrew).

I'm going to level my Monk to 14. ( 14 is the magic number for that 4th attack.)

My 2nd Feat will be Vow of Non-Violence. My 3rd Feat will be Vow of Poverty. ( Take a close look at the bonuses of those Feats, and then read on. Keeping in mind, the Base Class is Monk.)


Wow. Read the vow of poverty description to see why it's stupid to wait until you've gained your third feat to get vow of poverty if you're getting it at all. You do not gain all those bonus feats listed on the table if you take it after you would have gained them, that's a specific exception. So if you take vow of poverty at third level, you can get vow of nonviolence for free as your 4th level exalted bonus feat. If you take it at first level with a bonus feat from being human, you get yet another bonus exalted feat that you wouldn't have gotten otherwise.

That said, unless you get far, far fewer magic items than is normal, vow of poverty is going to give you less than simply using magic items like everyone else.



At Level 14, I'm going to PrC to Apostle of Peace. ( 2 Bounus to Diplomacy for Sacred Vow, and by level 14, at least 6, if not 8, Ranks in Diplomacy on top of that.)
Diplomacy is a class skill for monks, so if you care about it at all, you're going to have a lot more than just those eight ranks.



Hey, My GM ( see the "Bad times to roll a natural 20" thread) made a comment when we were disscussing the beginnings of this new game. He said ( to paraphrase) that he had never had one of his Players try to go the AoP route, because it is not easy. I love a challange like that. Sure, playing a high powered Wizard, or Tanking Fighter, is nice, but I love running characters that are oddball, to force my GMs to think about the game they are running beyond simply "OK, you guys will go in, Nuke this target, and then get some XP/GP".

As an AoP, who's Primary Godess, of Chance, has been gone for 16,000 years, and who's revealed Godess is one of Love and Compassion, he's really going to have to think out his plots. The best part is, the GM in question has already shown me, in our first little six hour session, that he is up to the task of giving me a good game, in which we are both going to have to be thinking all the time. Add in the fact that the rest of the party we are working on getting together have been gaming with him for years, and from what he has told me are right up there in the whole "Give the GM a headache trying to keep up with us" game, and I foresee many many sessions up ahead that will be both exciting and interesting.All I can say about this is that 'forcing the DM to think' is not always a good plan, since any DM should already have lots and lots of stuff to think about, and insisting that he spend more figuring out some weird aspect that will only affect you, leaving the other players in the dust, is selfish at best.

[Fax Celestis]

Hypothetical, I am warning you soon monsters who shoot flames and lasers are going to come out and flame you on why monk with vow of poverty and nonviolence is bad (vop is bad just for you, vow of nonviolence hurts the party for they take penalties).

*Hides behind a concrete barrier with wholes in it so he can watch, munches popcorn*

VoP is good for Incarnum characters, who don't need to worry about gear (in particular, good for Totemists).

[TimeWizard]

In defense of impoverished members of monastic orders against ursine creatures armed with Light Amplification through Stimulation of Emitted Radiation'S. But that argument has been done. Basically concern yourself with one of three Prestige options:
A) Tattoed Monk: more supernatural abilities, less Bruce Lee.
B) Reaping Mauler: all grappling, less super kung fu. Think what High School wrestling should have been.
C) Drunken Master- oh who am I kidding? It's funny but it loses something (everything) if you can't spend your time drunk in a tavern. Or drunk at least.
D) Student of the Dragon- yes, this is four out of three because you might not get to use it- there is a reason it's not 3.5 (Ultimate PrC's, p. 42). Really.

Did someone say something about Tattoed Monks being broken? Where is that justification? I swear to all that is unholy if it involves a certain level 5 kobold THERE WILL BE VIOLENCE.

[Quirinus_Obsidian]

Make a decisive strike monk, it works better with AoOs.

I made a Vow of Poverty (BoED) Decisive Strike (PHB II) Sidewinder Monk (Dragon 331) with Fiery Fist and Ki Blast (both PHBII), That was the most fun monk I ever played. An exalted Snake-link monk with sneak attack. LOL! Totally not the most optimised build... but optimization is overrated. Yes. I typed that. You can re-read it if you want. :smallsmile: no flame intended, it's just how I play.

[Fax Celestis]

One could Sorceror DipTM and go into Dragon Disciple for the natural attacks and stat boosts.

[Indon]

As a reply to Marjon and Indon... The guy already said he was house ruled to having a N-G monk. Thsu leveling as a barbarian is okay. At least, it should be.

Unless he's house-ruled to be able to go back to leveling as a monk, monk multiclassing would still be one-way; you can multiclass _to_ monk, but if you stop leveling as a monk after you've started, you can't start again. I did miss the alignment part, though, so it does seem likely they removed that requirement.

[jlousivy]

he'd probably allow aesthetic---class feat. basicly im wanting to get out of monk before i hit the supernatural abilities since he's more of a brawler than a standard monk. (no other real way to deal decent unarmed/unarmoured damage) at least out of the books i have

[Hypothetical]

Hypothetical, I am warning you soon monsters who shoot flames and lasers are going to come out and flame you on why monk with vow of poverty and nonviolence is bad (vop is bad just for you, vow of nonviolence hurts the party for they take penalties).

*Hides behind a concrete barrier with wholes in it so he can watch, munches popcorn*

The penalties you mention occur only after combat. They occur only on Helpless or Defenseless foes.

Let them Flame. ( Raises "Trapulin of fire resistance", dodges Lasers as under "Deflect Arrow" feat.)

Luckily, the GM I'm working with is very strict about Alignment issues, which with a full LG, or even just a full G party, will cause issues even if I don't make the party take a Vow with me to not harm H or D foes. ( Can you say..."Oh, you're LG, and you are about to torture that poor Orc for Information...make an Alignment throw or lose you're alignment".

Sure, during Combat I will have to use strictly N-L damage ( hey, that's what Nunchaku are for, duh!) But the stupid high Diplomacy ranks should allow me to interrogate survivors afterwards fairly easily. Add in , oh say 5 or 6 ranks in Bluff, as in "Bluff the (Insert random Creature) into believing that while I wouldn't personally hunt them down if they broke thier word, but I wouldn't have any problem sending this level 12 Ranger after you", and the Path can work.

[Hypothetical]

All I can say about this is that 'forcing the DM to think' is not always a good plan, since any DM should already have lots and lots of stuff to think about, and insisting that he spend more figuring out some weird aspect that will only affect you, leaving the other players in the dust, is selfish at best.

In Referance to this....I don't mean " Force the DM into thinking up new and unusual ways to kill the party", I mean, make the GM think about " OK, I planned for X, but the PCs took course Y, so...."

The GM I'm currently running with is very intelligent, and can think on his feet in these situations. After one session, 6 hours long I admit, he's already thinking up new and interesting ways to keep my character confused, because I figured out the basics of the early on stuff right off the bat. ( He even made the comment " I can see I'm going to have to be even more subtle in my playing, because you weren't supposed to have figured that out yet..." ( Paraphrasing)

I'm rather proud of the fact that at one point during an assault ( see the thread "Bad times to roll a natural 20" )I actually made him stop and think for a full 20 seconds before he came back with a reply to what was going on.

OK, the reply wasn't nice. The Goblin we were facing yelled out something in what the NPC Wizard identified as being Gnomish, in the second round of comabt, which turned into a 5 Gameday chase, resulting in the remaing party being able to recover the Preistess that could have healed us..considering that both I and the NPC Ranger were at 1 HP, even after healing. ( No, that damn NPC Wizard didn't take a single point of damage, although he was still the hero after sleeping 14 of 19 opponets.) A full blown combat lasting 3 rounds against 19 opponents, with 4 Level 1s, will do that.

[Zincorium]

he'd probably allow aesthetic---class feat. basicly im wanting to get out of monk before i hit the supernatural abilities since he's more of a brawler than a standard monk. (no other real way to deal decent unarmed/unarmoured damage) at least out of the books i have

You're thinking Ascetic. Aesthetic is visually pleasing, and I don't think there are any feats in that category.

As far as brawling-types go, FrostBurn and ToB both have options to create brawlers that are at least as good as a monk in that arena, I'm assuming you don't have those though.

[Quietus]

Odd.... I see now that the whirlwind thing was correct. Where am I remembering the 5 foot thing from? Is that an old 3.0 remnant?

[Rigeld2]

Add in , oh say 5 or 6 ranks in Bluff, as in "Bluff the (Insert random Creature) into believing that while I wouldn't personally hunt them down if they broke thier word, but I wouldn't have any problem sending this level 12 Ranger after you", and the Path can work.
From Vow of Non-Violence:
"If you leave a helpless foe to be killed by your allies, you have broken your vow."

I guess as long as you get an oath of surrender or noninterference from each creature, youre fine.