Spellsinger Vs Sorcerer

[Bad Wolf]

So if you don't know what it is, Spellsinger is a base class found in Kingdoms of Kalamar, otherwise known as the Player's Guide to Overpowered Things. Its the exact same as a sorcerer, except for one feature called spell singing.

Spellsinging removes all 'common' material components and somatic components. In return, all spells slots are reduced by 2 (4 spells slots for each spell level at 20th).

So my question is this: Is Spellsinger a better class then Sorcerer?

[Snowbluff]

Um... not really. I would say that's a lot of slot loss.

[Bad Wolf]

Um... not really. I would say that's a lot of slot loss.

Sorry for adding information, but I just checked again and saw that they get new spell levels same as wizard.

[A_S]

Sorry for adding information, but I just checked again and saw that they get new spell levels same as wizard.
That makes it kind of a wash, I guess.

Ditching material components isn't a big deal; if by "common" you mean "non-priced" then it's the same thing as the Eschew Materials feat. The general advice on that is, "only take it if you happen to know that your DM is the kind of guy who likes to run a 'you're in prison without your equipment' arc once per campaign."

Ditching somatic components is...okay, I guess? Like, it means you can cast spells while tied up, which probably comes up once in a while. And it probably means you can cast spells in armor without ASF chance, which is...not as good as it sounds, given how many ways there are to get a good AC bonus onto a spellcaster without worrying about actually wearing armor.

Getting spells a level early is pretty nice. So, on odd-numbered class levels, you're probably a little better than a Sorcerer, and on even-numbered levels, you're a bit worse (2 spell slots per level really is quite a lot).

Seems...pretty underwhelming, to me. Like, why bother making this its own class?

[Bad Wolf]

Hmm. Thanks guys, guess I'll rebuild to Spellsinger.

[Tryxx]

I've never heard of this class, and despite the spell slots lost I still think it's pretty neat. That's probably because automatic still spell normally requires 24 character levels.

Here's what you do - take the Nonverbal Spell feat (Planar Handbook), and the Deceptive and Invisible Spell feats (Cityscape). Now cast all your spells while nonchalantly strolling through the battlefield with your hands in your pockets. All the while whistling (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGBLlFMn9Xc) and raining down destruction. It will be glorious.

[Bad Wolf]

I've never heard of this class, and despite the spell slots lost I still think it's pretty neat. That's probably because automatic still spell normally requires 24 character levels.

Here's what you do - take the Nonverbal Spell feat (Planar Handbook), and the Deceptive and Invisible Spell feats (Cityscape). Now cast all your spells while nonchalantly strolling through the battlefield with your hands in your pockets. All the while whistling (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGBLlFMn9Xc) and raining down destruction. It will be glorious.

Deceptive Spell will increase that to a full-round action, but I guess its a good idea (and hilarious). Thanks.

Any other suggestions?

[Blackhawk748]

Take advantage of having Perform as a class skill, this may let you into a few awesome PrCs (i cant think of any off hand but i know they are out there) Also remember that you have an odd spell list, with Arcane and Divine stuff on there. Personally i think they would make great buff monkeys

[Jack_Simth]

Pulling the book... Kingdoms of Kalamar: Player's Guide to the Soverign Lands, page 69.

Let's see... typo's, editing, and formatting problems galore. Also lots of stuff that wasn't thought through very well.

Table... OK, looks like they tried to copy the Wizard's Spells per Day table, and ended up accidentally shifting most of the rows over 1 (at level 2, you've got no entry for cantrips, a 4 for first level, and a 2 for second). The Spells Known, however, seems to be copied pretty much verbatim from the Sorcerer.

As to components... yeah, it's basically a free Eschew Materials (although lets you eschew minor focuses, as well as somatic components), but all spells cost at least a full-round action to cast.

The spells are drawn off of a specific spell list - which, among other things, mean that it doesn't have nearly as much splat support as the Sorcerer. While yes, the spell list is a mix of the common arcane and divine... several of the spells are effectively unusable (for instance, the Planar Binding Line can't be used without help - the class doesn't have the option of the Magic Circle spells, nor Dimensional Anchor).

So... no, not better than the Sorcerer. Same tier, though.

[Sith_Happens]

Deceptive Spell will increase that to a full-round action

There's definitely a feat that gets rid of that rule but I can't remember the name.:smallconfused:


Take advantage of having Perform as a class skill, this may let you into a few awesome PrCs (i cant think of any off hand but i know they are out there)

Virtuoso, off the top of my head.

[AnonymousPepper]

I've never heard of this class, and despite the spell slots lost I still think it's pretty neat. That's probably because automatic still spell normally requires 24 character levels.

Here's what you do - take the Nonverbal Spell feat (Planar Handbook), and the Deceptive and Invisible Spell feats (Cityscape). Now cast all your spells while nonchalantly strolling through the battlefield with your hands in your pockets. All the while whistling (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGBLlFMn9Xc) and raining down destruction. It will be glorious.

This would have been a fantastic entry for the Collateral Damage Man thread.

[Bad Wolf]

Take advantage of having Perform as a class skill, this may let you into a few awesome PrCs (i cant think of any off hand but i know they are out there) Also remember that you have an odd spell list, with Arcane and Divine stuff on there. Personally i think they would make great buff monkeys

I think you have the wrong class. Spellsinger basically has the same as wiz/sorc, only limited to the spells in the player's guide. Unless you're talking about the other kalamar books, but thanks.

And yeah, I intend to max out Preform, it's both fluff and crunch-viable. You can probably guess which one, though it would be fun to kick fluff in the face...thanks.

[Blackhawk748]

I think you have the wrong class. Spellsinger basically has the same as wiz/sorc, only limited to the spells in the player's guide. Unless you're talking about the other kalamar books, but thanks.

Actually no, they have their own unique list, which is after the NPC block at the end of the Spellsinger description.

[Bad Wolf]

Actually no, they have their own unique list, which is after the NPC block at the end of the Spellsinger description.

Which book are you looking at?

[Blackhawk748]

Which book are you looking at?

Kingdoms of Kalamar Players Guide to the Sovereign Lands pg 75

And ya, while i love KoK their player's guide does have a bunch of editing errors, which is weird because the printed version doesnt, so im not sure what happened there.

[Bad Wolf]

Dammit, don't have a copy. Well, time to find it some other way, thanks.