Raumathari Battlemage help

[Raezeman]

Greetings,

basically, this is another gish build help thread. The point is, i'm wanting to make a Raumathari Battlemage build, so please no advice like 'just take duskblade' or 'forget Raumathari Battlemage and take so many levels of warblade and ect…'

Also, i must note that if this guy would ever see the light of play, it would be in a campaign where your extra HP at each level is always max (so for example the HP increase of a wizard level would not be 1d4 + CON, but 4 + CON), for players but also all ennemies. This makes the difference in HP between a d4 and d8 for example more substantial over multiple levels than the 'normal' way.

So now, i have few builds in mind, i would like advice on pro's and con's and advice whick one is preferable, noting that in no way i am looking to break the game. So, my so far builds are (levels not necessary gained in that order):

fighter 1/wizard 5/ Raumathari Battlemage 10/...
pro: plenty of spells; earliest entry to battlemage (i think)
con: 5 levels of wizard takes away some bab and hp compared to others

fighter 1/ battle sorcerer6/ Raumathari Battlemage10/...
pro: more HP and better bab than wizard
con: less spells and slower spell progression

fighter 1/ sorcerer 6/ Raumathari Battlemage10/...
pro: most spells per day me thinks
con: same as wizard, + slower spell progression

duskblade 2/ wizard 5/ Raumathari Battlemage/...
pro: already gishing at level 1; some extra low level spells
pro: free combat casting, but is this worth it?
con: even slightly less HP than the very first one

So, to sum up, what would you say takes priority: HP, bab, spell progression, spells per day?
Battle sorcerer allows casting in light armor and thus avoids the need for (greater) mage armor, but is it worth it?
What class variants to you advice? (source book also please) I know the practical metamagic is nice for (battle) sorcerer to get use of quicken spell, which is nice at higher levels.

i don't really need advice on feats i think, but if you have some exotic ideas, feel free


friendly regards,
Raezeman

[andhaira]

You missed one option:

(Militia*) Wizard 5/Raumathari Battlemage 10

Pro: No interruption in Spellcasting save at RBM level 5
Con: Must be human for the extra feat, feat slot on Militia can be felt to be wasted, no bonus feat/+1 boost to BaB/6 extra hitpoints/proficiency with armor from Fighter

*Militia Regional Feat from Players Guide to Faerun. It grants proficiency with all martial weapons.


It also helps to know what you are planning with the remainder 5 levels. Do you plan to take RBM all the way for 10 levels, and even if so, do you plan to do it before any other dips? Some tips to consider:

-Definitely go specialist Wizard instead of Sorcerer for the free metamagic feat which is a requirement to enter the prc. Free Scribe Scroll at level 1 will be useful at each and every level to make cheap scrolls of spells you have in your book & think you may need but don't want to memorize like utility spells, mirrior image for emergencies when you get ambushed, shield/mage armor/exp.retreat or heck even a fireball or two when you feel like unloading some over the top nuking. XP cost is negligible unless you go overboard with Scribe Scroll, and gold cost should be manageable. For summon familiar swallow your pride and pick either toad or weasel for obvious reasons (extra hp or +2 to reflex saves), the do a Varsuvius and bury it deep into your pack and forget about it. Yeah it's cheap but with a MAD build like this you are going to need every cheap trick in the book. Familiar also gives you free Alertness feat, which can be potentially useful as an entry to other PRCs if you need it.

-However, if Battle Sorcerer is allowed give it some serious thought instead of Wizard, because the extra hitpoints, BAB and ability to cast in Chain Shirt without spell failure are very powerful features for a warrior mage. You will take at least a one level hit in spell progression though, will need to burn an extra feat for metamagic.

-Don't bother with pure Sorcerer. You may think this build fits it, but after a lot of thought I do believe Spec. Wizard is far superior. (or battle sorc) The flexibility of the wizards spell book cannot be understated, especially as there will be plenty of utility spells that can not only enhance your build, but can be useful for roleplaying. ANd finally, and very importantly, Sorcerers need a full round action to metamagic which is a big no no for someone who wants to be in melee. You also loose out on Quicken Spell, possibly the best of all metamagic feats and essential for a warrior mage.

-Other PRCs After 10 levels of RBM, or in between, consider Spellsword. Even the first level of spellsword can be very very useful, especially if you take it before you hit ECL 10. If Abjurant Champion** is allowed, don't even think about it, go for it as soon as you can.

**Abjurant Champion is in Complete Arcane. It is a 5 level PRC, with full BaB, d10 hit dice, full casting progression and some sweet abilities. Very easy to get into as well, just don't choose Abjuration as an opposing school

Here are some comparisons:

Fighter 1/Wizard 6/RBM 10/Spellsword 3

BaB: 14; Caster level: 17 (9th level spells).

Pros: Decent BaB that allows 3 attacks as a full action. Can be enhanced by high STR, Weapon Focus, Masterwork or Magic weapon and most importantly spells like Bulls Str, Magic Weapon spell, and ofcourse Tensers Transformation. Some of these spells can potentially be made permanent via Permanent metamagic feat. Quicken Metamagic can allow unloading 2 spells in a round. Raumathari BMs own unique abilities can enhance everything, with channel spell enhancing BaB and damage, and Battlespells allowing for some nifty stuff. Potential for 1 round alphastrikes is high.

Con: Low HP, like really low. 16 levels of d4 hitdice, and only 4 levels of d10.

However, if at mid to higher levels you are going into melee without mirror image/shield/stoneskin/tenser transformation etc you deserve what you get. Quicken spell can let you cast a buff and melee in the same round if you are surprised/surrounded in combat. Contingencies can be very helpful too. Now you see why Wizard is better than Sorc?

Notes: Take Fighter 1/Wiz 5 initially, then RBM 10, Spellsword 3 and then 1 level more of Wizard. If you want to wear armor without spell penalty, take spellsword levels earlier, so you can wear Mithril Chain Shirt without casting penalty. That's a +4 free AC.

Fighter 1/Wizard 5/RBM 10/Abjurant Champion 4

This is even better, possibly the best combo if you want all 10 levels of RBM and you are allowed Abjurant Champion. You can take out Fighter and use the Militia feat instead to get Martial Weapon Proficiency (all), that way you get Abjurant Champion 5. That is more feat intensive though. That's my main beef with the RBM, it takes way too many feats. I mean really, why have both EWP BS and prof with Martial Weapons? And then a d4 hit dice and cleric BaB. It should have had a d6 HD at the least and full BaB, and no EWP or Martial Weapon (all) requirement.

Here are a few more to consider:

Fighter1/Wizard 5/Raumathari Battlemage 10/Spell Sword 1/Abjurant Champion 3

Fighter1/Wizard 5/Raumathari Battlemage 10/Abjurant Champion 4

Fighter1/Wizard 5/Raumathari Battlemage 4/Spell Sword 3/Abjurant Champion 5

Fighter1/Wizard 5/Raumathari Battlemage 8/Spell Sword 1/Abjurant Champion 5

(Militia) Wizard 5/Raumathari Battlemage 10/Abjurant Champion 5

(Militia) Wizard 10/Raumathari Battlemage 10

As you can see there are lots of combos. Take what you want most. Keep in mind the journey is as important as the destination, no point in planning for level 20 when doing so ensures you won't survive past level 5 (thus a level of fighter and a level or 3 of spellsword or 5 levels of abjurant champion can be very useful)

Here is a useful link you will like, go there and read:

http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/935771

[Petrocorus]

Greetings,

basically, this is another gish build help thread. The point is, i'm wanting to make a Raumathari Battlemage build, so please no advice like 'just take duskblade' or 'forget Raumathari Battlemage and take so many levels of warblade and ect…'

fighter 1/wizard 5/ Raumathari Battlemage 10/...
pro: plenty of spells; earliest entry to battlemage (i think)
con: 5 levels of wizard takes away some bab and hp compared to others

That would be my favoured entry without shenanigans. As a gish, you'll probably not going to be a BSF, but a Glass Canon. Your HP are not that essentials compared to pure melee characters, because you're a wizard, and your game is to avoid getting hit entirely. And the mechanic of the game is so that the best power come from spells, so you want having big spells ASAP and not being limited a short few.



duskblade 2/ wizard 5/ Raumathari Battlemage/...
pro: already gishing at level 1; some extra low level spells
pro: free combat casting, but is this worth it?
con: even slightly less HP than the very first one

I wouldn't bother with Duskblade. The class has a nice chassis, and seems really cool on paper. But when you look at the spell list, it seems less cool all of a sudden. The spell list is dumb. Because of it, a well built Suel Arcanamach or a Sorcadin with 10 level in Spellsword are better Duskblade than the Duskblade. You'll end up being a 2 or 3 tricks pony.



So, to sum up, what would you say takes priority: HP, bab, spell progression, spells per day?
Battle sorcerer allows casting in light armor and thus avoids the need for (greater) mage armor, but is it worth it?

You can take wizard and the 1-lvl dip into Spelsword and cast in mithral chain shirt. And add Twilight enhancement or get a githcrafted one. It may be useful because you can enhance armors well, but not necessary. Luminous Armor + Abj. Champ. class feature are potentially better.




What class variants to you advice? (source book also please) I know the practical metamagic is nice for (battle) sorcerer to get use of quicken spell, which is nice at higher levels.

Domain Wizard from UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizardVariantDomainWiz ard) if it is allowed. In his handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=394.0), Treantmonk advise to always take it if it is allowed. And combine it with Elven Generalist if you take Elf.
Focused Specialist (Transmutation) can be very good also. A Gish need a lot of buffing.

Spontaneous Divination is good in itself and since it make you kinda a spontaneous spellcaster, it allows some cool combination.

If immediate magic is allowed, then Abrupt Jaunt is a must.

Alternatively, have you thought about using a Sha'Ir from Dragon Compendium. Il allows many interesting combinations.


You missed one option:
~~ Snipped many good stuffs~~

I'd rather take Otherworldly, it's superior to Militia in every way.

[andhaira]

I'd rather take Otherworldly, it's superior to Militia in every way.

Yes ofcourse, in fact nearly all regional feats are superior to Militia (I prefer Luck of Heroes myself :smallbiggrin: ) but Militia grants proficiency will all martial weapons which is a requirement for the Raumathari Battlemage, meaning you can take the RBM one level earlier, without needing to take Fighter.

[Petrocorus]

Yes ofcourse, in fact nearly all regional feats are superior to Militia (I prefer Luck of Heroes myself :smallbiggrin: ) but Militia grants proficiency will all martial weapons which is a requirement for the Raumathari Battlemage, meaning you can take the RBM one level earlier, without needing to take Fighter.

That was my point. Otherworldly also grant proficiency with all martial weapons, while giving additional benefits.

[andhaira]

That was my point. Otherworldly also grant proficiency with all martial weapons, while giving additional benefits.

Hmm, are you talking about some other version of Otherworldly than the one in Players Guide to Faerun? If so and I am not misremembering the PGtF version, can you tell me which book it is in? Thnks!

[Troacctid]

Otherworldly changes your type to Outsider. The Outsider type (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#outsiderType) gives you proficiency with all martial weapons.

You can also play a Neraph, or some other LA +0 Outsider (I'm sure there are others that I can't think of offhand), to gain the same benefit, which was why I brought it up in the other thread.