To dip, or not to dip?

[SliceandDiceKid]

Curious as to whether or not I should grab 1 or 2 (maximum) levels in my fighter build. Any input is welcomed.
Running HotDQ with 4 other players.
We are all level 2 and just cleared out the mill. We are

1) half elf paladin (pole arm)
2) human warlock (blade lock)
3) human bard (rapier primarily)
4) tiefling Druid (moon)
5) And myself, half orc GW fighter
(Greatsword reroll 1/2)

Everyone else has below standard array stats. I'm at 18/11/16/9/16/12

War domain cleric for one level would give me access to bless (which our paladin has), 3 bonus attacks per day, and spare the dying. These would supplement when I don't crit or kill an opponent.

2 levels of paladin gives me another fighting style, smite, bless, and lay on hands 10.

2 barbarian wouldn't help much with rage unless I give up some AC, but reckless attack could pair nicely with imp crit.

Rogue would grant me cunning action and an occasional d6. Great for closing the distance on the first round or attacking then disengaging. And expertise is really useful.

I'm not set on grabbing anything else, just looking for some ideas. Thanks in advance.

[Madfellow]

War domain cleric for one level would give me access to bless (which our paladin has), 3 bonus attacks per day, and spare the dying. These would supplement when I don't crit or kill an opponent.

2 levels of paladin gives me another fighting style, smite, bless, and lay on hands 10.

2 barbarian wouldn't help much with rage unless I give up some AC, but reckless attack could pair nicely with imp crit.

Rogue would grant me cunning action and an occasional d6. Great for closing the distance on the first round or attacking then disengaging. And expertise is really useful.


Well first off, I think Paladin would be the least useful option for your build. The abilities it grants are nice at low levels, but they won't scale well unless you take more levels.

Cleric's nice for the bonus attacks and some healing.

Barbarian's nice for the rage alone. Reckless attack can be useful, but I'm not sure if it's worth the second level dip.

Rogue's nice for the mobility and skills. Level 1 sneak attack damage isn't much, though.

So I would limit it down to barbarian, cleric, or rogue, based on what you want. Barbarian if you want to be a tank, cleric if you want to kill stuff faster, or rogue if you want to just be faster and have more skills. Your party seems pretty well rounded, and you have a number of front-line fighters already, if that influences your decision at all.

Hope this helps.

[Giant2005]

You might want to consider two levels of Monk. It would give you two bonus attacks of 5 damage twice per short rest (or you could sacrifice two of those attacks for bonus action dodges, dashes or disengages).
If your group takes a lot of short rests, it would work out to be a lot better than the Cleric bonus attack option and your Wisdom is pretty good, so the unarmored defense could come in handy if you ever find yourself caught in a battle without armor.
Basically a Monk can bring you the option of the Cleric's damage boost or the Rogue's Utility Boost (The Rogue wouldn't get the sneak damage with a Greatsword btw).

[Gwendol]

I'd recommend Ranger, actually. Your wisdom is high enough to support spellcasting.

[SliceandDiceKid]

You might want to consider two levels of Monk. It would give you two bonus attacks of 5 damage twice per short rest (or you could sacrifice two of those attacks for bonus action dodges, dashes or disengages).
If your group takes a lot of short rests, it would work out to be a lot better than the Cleric bonus attack option and your Wisdom is pretty good, so the unarmored defense could come in handy if you ever find yourself caught in a battle without armor.
Basically a Monk can bring you the option of the Cleric's damage boost or the Rogue's Utility Boost (The Rogue wouldn't get the sneak damage with a Greatsword btw).

Good catch on the sneak attack with finesse only. I'm still getting used to that change from 3.5.

I might take monk. Flavor wise, it'd be awesome to slice into someone, then kick them in the face a few times.

[WickerNipple]

I would also recommend Ranger.

Hunters Mark + Colossus Slayer/Horde Breaker + Another fighting style is the best bump you're going to give this guy with a dip.

[MaxWilson]

You might want to consider two levels of Monk.

He doesn't qualify. You need DX 13 as well as WS13, and his DX is 11.

Same for Ranger.

[Gwendol]

He doesn't qualify. You need DX 13 as well as WS13, and his DX is 11.

Same for Ranger.

Ah, missed the DEX being that low.

[WickerNipple]

He doesn't qualify. You need DX 13 as well as WS13, and his DX is 11.

Same for Ranger.

Oh. Dex 11, not 16. I'm still used to 4e stat listings.

[Giant2005]

He doesn't qualify. You need DX 13 as well as WS13, and his DX is 11.

Same for Ranger.

Good point.
The only classes that he can multi into are the Barbarian, Druid and Cleric.
Druid isn't even on the table, Barbarian is pretty useless if you aren't going to be raging, so Cleric is pretty much the only class on the table. Personally I think he is probably better off sticking with straight Fighter.

[SliceandDiceKid]

I would also recommend Ranger.

Hunters Mark + Colossus Slayer/Horde Breaker + Another fighting style is the best bump you're going to give this guy with a dip.

Taking a maximum of 2 levels besides fighter. And I don't meet the requirements.

[silveralen]

I wouldn't dip before you got to level 5 for sure. I can't think of any build where that'll be a net gain.

After five, cleric and barbarian seem like your strongest options. Cleric is a little less useful imo. It has a couple nice features, but nothing standout for you till higher levels. Barbarian could work, you'd have a lower AC plus potentially granting advantage to enemies, but if you grab bear totem your rages can help make up for that. Your team has a lot of healing available so it shouldn't be a huge issue to keep you topped off.

Honestly though, I'd just stick with fighter for the majority of the time. With your already solid stats you can grab things like sentinel, the GWF feat, and resilient (wis) to make your character very strong. If you are finding the character too limited, eldritch knight is an option, but your low INT will really restrict which spells you can get usage out of.

[SliceandDiceKid]

I wouldn't dip before you got to level 5 for sure. I can't think of any build where that'll be a net gain.

After five, cleric and barbarian seem like your strongest options. Cleric is a little less useful imo. It has a couple nice features, but nothing standout for you till higher levels. Barbarian could work, you'd have a lower AC plus potentially granting advantage to enemies, but if you grab bear totem your rages can help make up for that. Your team has a lot of healing available so it shouldn't be a huge issue to keep you topped off.

Honestly though, I'd just stick with fighter for the majority of the time. With your already solid stats you can grab things like sentinel, the GWF feat, and resilient (wis) to make your character very strong. If you are finding the character too limited, eldritch knight is an option, but your low INT will really restrict which spells you can get usage out of.

Bear totem is the only reason I'd consider more than a 2 level dip. I failed to mention it earlier, but I'm set on champion. I'm worried about a 15 AC vs my 18 I'd have in several levels, if I go barb.

Didn't notice monk requires dex too.

So definitely between barb and cleric. Probably after 5 or 6. But cleric yields better results at first dip. Healing, bonus attacks, and no need to compromise my AC.

[odigity]

Everything I came here to say has already been said:

- Monk would be recommended 2-level dip for reasons stated above
- but while I love dipping, you're not set up for it, stat-wise

So, if you don't mind spending a feat getting your Dex from 11 to 13, then grab 2 levels of Monk *after* level 5 (extra attack) or level 6 (second feat).

Honorable mention: Since my favorite class to dip is Warlock, I should point out that you're only 1 ability point away from qualifying...

Otherwise, keep going in Fighter, it will probably work out best for you.

[odigity]

Honorable mention: Since my favorite class to dip is Warlock, I should point out that you're only 1 ability point away from qualifying...

Should also mention Warlock is best dipped on chars that are already Cha-based, since the two best low-level combat goodies (Eldritch Blast, Fiend pact's temp HP) are tied to Cha score. So forget that.

However, since you've got so many ASIs/feats as a Fighter, I highly recommend you spend one on the Magic Initiate feat. Since Ranger is not an option for it, choose Warlock and pick Hex as your first level spell (just like Hunter's Mark, but better IMO). Choose two cantrips to suit your preference (no right answer here, do what you like).

Hex will let you add 1d6 to all your attacks against the hexed target (which is movable as a bonus action). As a Fighter, you have the most attacks in the game already...

Now, if you're looking to maximize that, then I still recommend the two-level Monk dip. That would get you up to six attacks in a round (4 Fighter + 2 Flurry of Blows), or 10 if you use Action Surge. That combines with Hex nicely.

Now, if you're going Champion archetype on your Fighter, then it's all about maximizing die rolls to maximize the chances of a crit, so make sure you're maximizing your number of attacks, then get the Bard to cast Faerie Fire on the toughest opponents so you're rolling two dice for every attack, which is up to 20 attack rolls in one round. With an 18-20 crit range, you'll end up getting ~3 crits in that one nova round on average.

[Theodoxus]

Yeah, I'm not feeling the need to dip either. You'll be delaying your ASI/Feats, and with great weapons, you'll want to maximize both your strength, and grab the supporting feats.

I do like the thought of grabbing Magic Initiate for Hex - that actually meshes quite well 3d6 a hit with a greatsword = yum! - though I'm not sure when you'd get it. 4th for 20 Str, 6th for Great Weapon Master, 8th for MI? Or do you want more tanky-ness and grab Heavy Armor Master? There's a few other feats that would help out as well - but since you haven't expressed exactly what your role in the party is - I'm just spitballing based on Champion and your MC thoughts.

[SliceandDiceKid]

Yeah, I'm not feeling the need to dip either. You'll be delaying your ASI/Feats, and with great weapons, you'll want to maximize both your strength, and grab the supporting feats.

I do like the thought of grabbing Magic Initiate for Hex - that actually meshes quite well 3d6 a hit with a greatsword = yum! - though I'm not sure when you'd get it. 4th for 20 Str, 6th for Great Weapon Master, 8th for MI? Or do you want more tanky-ness and grab Heavy Armor Master? There's a few other feats that would help out as well - but since you haven't expressed exactly what your role in the party is - I'm just spitballing based on Champion and your MC thoughts.

Hex is nice. I plan on GWM at 4, then I was thinking of lucky at 6. Is the 20 str that important? 1 to hit and damage is definitely good, but I feel like I'm doing enough right now. I guess it would help offset the -5/+10

[unwise]

Fighter is a class people dip into, not really out of. The thing is, if you want to smack people around and last a long time in the front line, Fighter is really the class for you. They are very good at what they do, no reason to complicate it really.

Before level 5 you are delaying your second attack, which is just not cool. You have a period from 6-10 where multiclassing might seem like a good idea, but past those 4 levels, you will be kicking yourself if you hit 11 and don't get a third attack.

My main issue with dipping is that you picked the class you did for a reason, it is the best one to do what you want it to. Unless a character concept or design necessitates MC, it is seldom worth it if your main classes marries up to what you want to do. This, I might add, is a great thing about 5e.

[silveralen]

Hex is nice. I plan on GWM at 4, then I was thinking of lucky at 6. Is the 20 str that important? 1 to hit and damage is definitely good, but I feel like I'm doing enough right now. I guess it would help offset the -5/+10

The extra chance to hit really adds up over time. Without a maxed strength or higher level prof you'll not get a lot of mileage out of the first half of GWF, at least not without a way to guarantee advantage (which is a point in favor of the barbarian multiclass).

Honestly, the way advantage works with both aspects of GWF and especially with GWF and the champion crit range are why barbarian multiclasses are such a good option (while the fighting style, action surge, and crit range push barbs towards dipping fighter).

[SliceandDiceKid]

The extra chance to hit really adds up over time. Without a maxed strength or higher level prof you'll not get a lot of mileage out of the first half of GWF, at least not without a way to guarantee advantage (which is a point in favor of the barbarian multiclass).

Honestly, the way advantage works with both aspects of GWF and especially with GWF and the champion crit range are why barbarian multiclasses are such a good option (while the fighting style, action surge, and crit range push barbs towards dipping fighter).

Thanks for the input, silver. I guess I was leaning toward cleric for the additional attack at that first level dip, to supplement when I don't proc a bonus attack from GWM. But the damage resistance counterbalances the slightly lower AC. And for the record, I don't plan to spam the -5/+10. I mostly want the cleave ability.

Raging half orc FTW!

[SliceandDiceKid]

Fighter is a class people dip into, not really out of. The thing is, if you want to smack people around and last a long time in the front line, Fighter is really the class for you. They are very good at what they do, no reason to complicate it really.

Before level 5 you are delaying your second attack, which is just not cool. You have a period from 6-10 where multiclassing might seem like a good idea, but past those 4 levels, you will be kicking yourself if you hit 11 and don't get a third attack.

My main issue with dipping is that you picked the class you did for a reason, it is the best one to do what you want it to. Unless a character concept or design necessitates MC, it is seldom worth it if your main classes marries up to what you want to do. This, I might add, is a great thing about 5e.

Yeah, bless definitely isn't a phenomenal spell, right? And stabilizing my party members isn't important. And barbarian definitely wouldn't aid my damage output at all. Damage resistance is pretty negligible too.

On a less sarcastic note, 5e is the most multiclass friendly edition, by far, in my opinion. Proficiency bonus and Cantrips based on character level, not class level. Skills are based on proficiency, not class skills and cross class with significant stratification between what single class chars can do and what multiclass chars can do.

Some of the capstones are great, but most campaigns don't make it to the last few character levels.

Ours probably won't. The DM wants to run HotDQ, then the second installment, and call it doneskis for our characters.