Illithids and their servants

[Dartonus]

Could someone please give me the stats for A Ulitharid, elder brain, Uchuulon, Illithid (The SRD doesn't have it), brain golem, Brainstealer dragon, Illithocyte, Neothelid, Oortling, Octopin, Brain golem, Nyraala golem, Mindwitness, or Kezreth? Maybe a God-brain while I'm at it? Please? Thanks in advance, not sure if stats for some exist.

Check the Illithid wikipedia entry If you don't know what they are.

[Khantalas]

No. The fact is, those things were never released to the SRD or any other kind of OGL thingie that is free to reproduce somewhere else. That's why the Lawyers take away the Squid Thingy in OotS - it violates the Spooky Wizard's copyrights.

[Neo]

If it isn't under OGL, they can't really reply.

[Ranis]

Yeah, you'll probably have to homebrew those yourself, man. Just remember that the Master Brain should be a pushover for anything that's able to get next to it.

[martyboy74]

By the way, a neolithid is not a servant of the illithids; it's a tadpole that never underwent ceremorphosis. The Illithids actually consider it an abomination.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Illithid Servants are stuff like Gith, Intellect Devourers, Umberhulks, Deurgar and that other deep dwarven race.

As far as I know Brain Golem and Half-Ilithid are in Fiend Folio. Brain Golem might be in Monster Manual 2 instead. Intellect Devourer was in the 3.0 Psionics Handbook so I'd look in the Expanded Psionics handbook. Illithids are in the Monster Manual.

Lords of Madness has most of the other stuff you need for Ilithids.

[Mr Horse]

By the way, a neolithid is not a servant of the illithids; it's a tadpole that never underwent ceremorphosis. The Illithids actually consider it an abomination.

What I find interesting about the neolithids is - what do they consider themselves?

[Yuki Akuma]

Considering the whole "genetic memory" thing Illithids have going on.. abominations.

[Mr Horse]

that must be pretty hard on their self-esteem :/

[Fhaolan]

that must be pretty hard on their self-esteem :/

Somehow, I have no sympathy for the giant worms that were originally intended to be brain-eating humanoids. I just can't do it. :smallcool:

[kamikasei]

Considering the whole "genetic memory" thing Illithids have going on.. abominations.

Illithids don't have genetic memory - that's Aboleths. Illithids are ignorant infants when fresh from ceremorphosis. Neotheilds are specifically stated in Lords of Madness to only become self-aware when they consume their first self-aware brain, and to "have no knowledge of their links to illithids".

[Mewtarthio]

The "Psionic Monsters" section of d20srd.org has a few things, like the Neothelid and Intellect Devourer.

[UglyPanda]

Several of those can be found in "Lords of madness". Neothelids can be found in the SRD, under the "Psionic Monsters" section. Use the monster list to help find the rest:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/monsters

Remember, posting stats of trademarked monsters gets you taken away by the spooky wizard.

[Yuki Akuma]

...Drat. I keep getting Illithids and Aboleths confused.

And I have no idea how. >.<

[kamikasei]

Could someone please give me the stats for A Ulitharid, elder brain, Uchuulon, Illithid (The SRD doesn't have it), brain golem, Brainstealer dragon, Illithocyte, Neothelid, Oortling, Octopin, Brain golem, Nyraala golem, Mindwitness, or Kezreth? Maybe a God-brain while I'm at it? Please? Thanks in advance, not sure if stats for some exist.

Let's see...

Neothelid (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/neothelid.htm)

Lords of Madness:
Ulitharid
Elder brain

Stormwrack:
Uchuulon

Monster Manual:
Illithid

Fiend Folio:
Brain golem

Unknown:
Brainstealer dragon
Oortling
Octopin
Illithocyte
Nyraala golem
Mindwitness
Kezreth
God-brain

That's based off of WotC's Monster Index (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/monsters). ...Where did you hear of most of those?

And yeah, in general, the stats are available in the SRD or on the Wizards site, or they're not legitimately available at all without paying for them.

[Khantalas]

Mind Witness is from Underdark.

[NEO|Phyte]

Also, illithids may be in the Monster Manual, but you should really use the psionic version from the XPH.

[Khantalas]

Oh yes. All other illithid are just primitive imitations.

[ocato]

kamikasei, search ilithids on wikipedia and it describes all the little friends he listed. Infact, a really good campaign idea is forming in my brain as we speak concerning Alhoons...

[The_Snark]

Also, illithids may be in the Monster Manual, but you should really use the psionic version from the XPH.

This is mildly off-topic, but I've always been a little confused about it. These illithids manifest as a psion of higher than their CR. They have more hit points, more power points, and numerous special attacks, including Mind Blast and instant grapply death, than a psion who manifested at the same level would. Why is their CR lower than a psion who manifests at the same level?

I doubt you'll find stats for the god-brain, but taking an elder brain, advancing it with both HD and levels of psion, and giving it divine rank 0 is a pretty good bet.

[Ramza00]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/monsters

Helps you locate monsters real easy.

Note as a DM use the Illithid Savant Prestige class. Do not allow a player to use it, unless you have heavy DMing saying yes or no type thing.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Yeah... the psionic illithid variant has always confused me slightly. If you wish, all you have to do is lower their natural manifesting levels...

Of course, really, this concept is the same for any monstrous character with a huge LA and spellcaster or manifester levels....

Savage Species explains this by claiming that monsters in books have average stats and none of the equipment that an NPC would have... I suppose that makes a decent amount of sense.

[The_Snark]

Yeah... the psionic illithid variant has always confused me slightly. If you wish, all you have to do is lower their natural manifesting levels...

Of course, really, this concept is the same for any monstrous character with a huge LA and spellcaster or manifester levels....

Savage Species explains this by claiming that monsters in books have average stats and none of the equipment that an NPC would have... I suppose that makes a decent amount of sense.

I guess. But then, the illithid's 'average' scores are well above average and into prodigy levels, by human standards. Even it's physical scores are decent. Equipment, that does hurt a bit, but the standard NPC doesn't have great treasure anyway. I suppose I'd have to do a comparison between a psion and an illithid of equal level, but I suspect the illithid would come out looking at least equal, and certainly not of lower CR.

[CockroachTeaParty]

True, true. I guess we'll just have to accept the fact that illithids kick nine kinds of a**.

*sigh*

Before the boards changed, I had a mind-flayer based PbP running... I'm half tempted to start another one up...

[Dartonus]

Geez... I really need to get lords of madness, don't I? Well, thanks for the info! I got em from the wikipedia entry on Illithids.

[The_Snark]

Geez... I really need to get lords of madness, don't I? Well, thanks for the info! I got em from the wikipedia entry on Illithids.

I reccomend Lords of Madness pretty highly. Very nice for a DM planning on using lots of abberations. I wish they'd included a prestige class for mind flayers like they did for beholders and aboleths, but ah well.


Before the boards changed, I had a mind-flayer based PbP running... I'm half tempted to start another one up...

Yep, I was in that. If you had the time, I'd join again. Maybe not with the same character, but... mind flayers. Pretty hard to pass up.

[Earthstar_Fungus]

I reccomend Lords of Madness pretty highly. Very nice for a DM planning on using lots of abberations. I wish they'd included a prestige class for mind flayers like they did for beholders and aboleths, but ah well.



I saw on the Wizards website there was a prestige class called the Illithid Savant but I'm not sure where it is.

[The_Snark]

I saw on the Wizards website there was a prestige class called the Illithid Savant but I'm not sure where it is.

Ah, yes. That one's from Savage Species. It's... interesting. It lets you absorb a set number of skills, feats, special abilities, or class features from victims whose brains have been eaten. The difficulty is that it's either going to be better or worse than a normal class, depending on what stuff you've absorbed. I was thinking more of a special psionic/magic-using class for mind flayers, sort of like the aboleth savant.

[Ramza00]

I saw on the Wizards website there was a prestige class called the Illithid Savant but I'm not sure where it is.

Savage Species, its a class where you eat the brains of other monsters/characters and then gain their abilities. You can only hold a limited amount of brains abilities though (and there is no mechanics about forgetting one brain to learn another)

It is a broken class for a PC, but not for a DM NPC, for a DM will limit himself. Lets put it this way for a pc, a sample build (This build has leadership or a party who disables the monster then he suck up the brains at lvl 20)

4 Skills ranks which are taken from the monster/character. If there is more ranks in it than he can normally have due to level he still retains them.
4 feats though he has to meet the prerequisites of them.
3 class features (if you choose someones spellcasting you get 1 spell per spell level+bonus spells)
Dweomerkeeper's Supernatural Spell
A 20th lvl Wizard
A 20th lvl Archivist2 special attacks or qualities.
Tarrasque Regeneration
Solar casting as a 20th lvl Cleric, he gets all the spell slots for its a special attack/quality and thus doesn't have the class feature limitation of 1 spell slot per spell level+bonus spells.Plus he is still a 9th lvl telepath.

or

4 Skills ranks which are taken from the monster/character. If there is more ranks in it than he can normally have due to level he still retains them.
4 feats though he has to meet the prerequisites of them.
3 class features (if you choose someones spellcasting you get 1 spell per spell level+bonus spells)
Acquire the class ability Acquire Special Attack or Quality from another Illithid Savant. Thus you exchange 1 class feature for 2 special attacks or qualities
Acquire the class ability Acquire Special Attack or Quality from another Illithid Savant. Thus you exchange 1 class feature for 2 special attacks or qualities
Dweomerkeeper's Supernatural Spell2 special attacks or qualities+4 more from the acquire the special attack or quality from another illithid savant's .
Tarrasque Regeneration
Solar casting as a 20th lvl Cleric, he gets all the spell slots for its a special attack/quality and thus doesn't have the class feature limitation of 1 spell slot per spell level+bonus spells.
Phaerimm Casting as a your HD except Paerimm cast their sorcerer spells as spell like abilities (no more material or xp components, aka choose Wish as one of your spells)
Black Ethergaunt cast as a 17th lvl Wizard
High Spell Resistance from any monster
Natural Cunning from Baphitaur in FRUN (never be flat-footed to be combined with Celerity)Plus he is still a 9th lvl telepath.

There are more abusive things with Illithid Savant than this, don't go full abusive if you are a DM or if your DM allows you to play one. Illithid Savants make great villians, yes let me suck out your brain and then I know everything you know and can do everything you could do.

[kamikasei]

Ramza, if your player successfully eats the Tarrasque's brains I think he deserves a little something...

[kamikasei]

Here's a quick, Illithid-related question: can an Illithid use a humanoid host for ceremorphosis, if that host has templates applied? If so, what happens to the templates?

Specifically I'm wondering if it'd be legitimate to have an Avariel used as the base for an Illithid, and the result be an Illithid with the winged template.

[Ramza00]

Ramza, if your player successfully eats the Tarrasque's brains I think he deserves a little something...

Dominate Monster. With a flying carpet and enough castings it is easy to do. Followed by your party cutting out the brain of the tarrasque. It takes 1d6 minutes for the part to regrow. Eat the brain. High-tail your ass out of there before the tarrasque gains a new brain.

Note the "most of the monster" part regenerates not the smaller part. This is the reason why there is only one tarrasque, else when ever a tarrasques injures itself and lose a limb the limb and the stump would regrow and then we would have two tarrasques.

But if DM says no to that fine do this, pick a wartroll or other similar monster with regeneration. Then cast the spell "energy immunity" to the thing you are not immune to. Or you can steal the solar's regernation dr 15/-epic and evil.

Afterwards you use a scroll of favor of the martyr to give you immunity to non lethal damage. (Using supernatural spell, Phaerimm casting wish, Efreeti casting wish 3/day as a spell like ability, whatever to create the scroll).

----------------------------------------

Or how about this instead of arguing well the DM allow you to play this class, but not these monsters, how about the DM ban it outright. Illithid Savant is pure cheese, not designed to be used by a player, and should be a npc only class.

[Mewtarthio]

Dominate Monster. With a flying carpet and enough castings it is easy to do. Followed by your party cutting out the brain of the tarrasque. It takes 1d6 minutes for the part to regrow. Eat the brain. High-tail your ass out of there before the tarrasque gains a new brain.

I'm pretty sure that "hold still while I cut out and eat your brain" falls under the "no suicidal commands" clause of Dominate Monster.


Here's a quick, Illithid-related question: can an Illithid use a humanoid host for ceremorphosis, if that host has templates applied? If so, what happens to the templates?

Specifically I'm wondering if it'd be legitimate to have an Avariel used as the base for an Illithid, and the result be an Illithid with the winged template.

If you feel you need to model a different humanoid, you could always use the Half-Illithid template.

[Ramza00]

I'm pretty sure that "hold still while I cut out and eat your brain" falls under the "no suicidal commands" clause of Dominate Monster.


Fine then Heightened Hold Monster/Hold Monster Mass, followed by after you getting him with his initial save moving a paladin of tyranny/hexblade/blackguard debuffer who focuses on reducing saves via his class abilities and ailments that reduce saves.

Or Dominate him, command him to stay put, cast polymorph on him (since his carapace is an ex-ability. Bust out a wand of enveration, giving him plenty of negative levels (and thus negative saves). Dismiss polymorph/Dispell poymorph. Tarrasque will still have all those negative levels including all those drops in his saves. Then cast Hold Monster which the Tarrasque will fail his will save and will keep on failing his will save. Cut out his brain eat it. And now the illithid savant has the regeneration aspects of a tarrasque.

------------------------------------

If your are a DM and you don't want your player to have this ability, just say No. Trust me if your player is smart enough, he can figure out a way to do it, unless you say no. Just by saying no (and doing an explanation but with the tarrasque regeneration that explanation is quite simple) you nip it in the bud.

[henebry]

Another quick Illithid question:

I have an aberration-rich campaign, but I don't use the psionic system so I've been running the Mind Flayer from the MM. My question: the MM description implies that the Mind Flayer can use its Mind Blast at will, as many times/day as it likes. Given its high will save (DC17), that would seem to enable a single MF to punch above its CR. Am I right in thinking that the Mind Flayer's Mind Blast and other psionic abililites work differently under the real psionic system? And, if so, how should I modify the Mind Flayer form the MM entry if I don't want to run a psionic campaign?

(Nothing against psionics; I just have my hands full with the current magic system. Next time round maybe I'll do a psionics-only campaign!)

[Khantalas]

Mind Blast works exactly the same with true Mind Flayers.

[henebry]

With most special attacks, you're immune for 24 hrs if you make the save, but this isn't the case with the Mind Flayer's Mind Blast. With Mind Blast, it's one save every round for every Mind Flayer blanketing the room with blasts. Is that right? If the party faces 2 MFs, everyone has to make 2 saves / round and any one bad save knocks you out of battle.

[Ramza00]

Forgot to mention this. Fiend Follo and one of the Forgotten Realm books (Underdark?) had a template called the Half Illithid

[Lyinginbedmon]

Illithid Savants make great villians, yes let me suck out your brain and then I know everything you know and can do everything you could do.
"Anything you can do, I can do in addition..." :nale:

[Belkarseviltwin]

I guess. But then, the illithid's 'average' scores are well above average and into prodigy levels, by human standards. Even it's physical scores are decent.
They mean average before the race's stat adjustments. MM Illithids are built on 3 11s and 3 10s- then they get racial adjustments. An NPC psion would probably be built on either the soldier array (13 12 11 10 9 8) or the elite array.

[Counterspin]

I always liked Illithid Savant because it's essentially a campaign in and of itself. There's a lot of interesting foot work involved in find just the right donor. I was planning on playing an Illithid Savant rewritten as a Succubus prestige class, and I could just see all the neat possibilities.

[BardicDuelist]

Mind Flayers are very powerful (either variant really, but definately with the psionic version) but then again, when you are supposed to TAKE OVER THE WORLD and ALMOST STOP THE BLOOD WAR.

BTW the Giant can still use mind flayers in his comic. Even though they are not OGC, and are copyrighted, they, like all other works are subject to the laws on parody.

[thorgrim29]

How would that succubus work? You get special ability's after sexual intercourse?

[The Glyphstone]

And for whoever said the Elder Brain should be a pushover if you can get into its private chamber....geez....

The Elder Brain printed in Lords of Madness is CR mid-to-high 20's, with huge DR, SR, and a massive load of deadly psionic powers/spells. Getting to an elder brain in the middle of a massively guarded mind flayer citadel should be the EASY part of defeating it...

[The Faceless]

I think they meant more if you could get into thwacking range of it. last i checked, brains aren't that resistant to being hit with swords.

[Closet_Skeleton]

How would that succubus work? You get special ability's after sexual intercourse?

Yeah. I did once have the dodgy idea that demons used Succubi to harvest genetic material they could use for gene splicing new monsters.

Or on a less sci-aspect just to create nasty half-demons. Tanner'ruk are an example of a demonblooded creature deliberately bred by demons.

[Counterspin]

*rolleyes in a friendly manner* Not through sexual intercourse. You incapacitate someone and then soul drain them to death. Then you've got their soul, and with it their delicious class abilities and skill points. First you kill a paladin, of course. Charisma bonus to saves should make it easier to hunt your next prey!

[The_Snark]

I think they meant more if you could get into thwacking range of it. last i checked, brains aren't that resistant to being hit with swords.

DR/Epic? And getting within thwacking range means swimming in its brine pool. It can eat your brain, and with increased size it's a bit better at it than mind flayers are.


They mean average before the race's stat adjustments. MM Illithids are built on 3 11s and 3 10s- then they get racial adjustments. An NPC psion would probably be built on either the soldier array (13 12 11 10 9 8) or the elite array.

I know, but since the XPH mind flayer has racial psion manifesting, they don't usually get better scores. My point was that the illithid's racial adjustments, even based on 10s and 11s, are better than any NPC (or even PC) psion is likely to have.

[Scribbler]

Well, let's see.. a mind flayer has double standard treasure. For a CR 8 creature, that's 6,800. A 9th-level telepath NPC would have 12,000. Even the CR 8 telepath would have 9,400.

Plus, that NPC has 12,000 or 9,400 gp worth of actual gear. The mind flayer monster entry has double standard coins and goods too, which take up a good percentage of its treasure value. It will most likely have either 1d4 or 2d4 minor magic items. I realize that DMs will generally customize exactly which items the monster has, but that's the guideline for how much of it it should have to match its CR entry.

The mind flayer itself is obviously better off, but the NPC gets way more useful gear to use against the PCs.

[The_Snark]

I don't think 3,000 or even 6,000 gp will make up the difference between already superior ability scores, Mind Blast, brain-eating, and superior HP, though.

[Mewtarthio]

I think they meant more if you could get into thwacking range of it. last i checked, brains aren't that resistant to being hit with swords.

Last I checked, brains couldn't kill you just by thinking really hard, nor are they bigger than a human, nor are they guarded by freakish Lovecraftian psychic squid-people, nor do they assimilate the brains of others in an elaborate hoax that aforementioned squid-people believe is the way to immortality.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Last I checked, brains couldn't kill you just by thinking really hard, nor are they bigger than a human, nor are they guarded by freakish Lovecraftian psychic squid-people, nor do they assimilate the brains of others in an elaborate hoax that aforementioned squid-people believe is the way to immortality.

You've never been to Texas then. I could have said any place and the joke would still by funny and light hearted racist.

[Dartonus]

Yay! It finally arrived! Barnes and Noble was out. Had to order on amazon. But it's here! yay!

[Matthew]

Congratulations and welcome to a weirder D&D.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Heh heh heh... a weirder D&D indeed...

"Quick, cut open the dead beholder!"
"Why?"
"Just do it!"
*slice*
...
"BALOONS!!"

[Arbitrarity]

An avariel who undergoes ceremorphosis uses the half-illithid template. That's what it's for.

[The_Snark]

A D&D in which aboleths rule the past and mind flayers rule the future. You happen to have been born in the period in between the two.

There are thralls who would kill to be you.

Also, you can buy things from giant spiders now.

[Lyinginbedmon]

A D&D in which aboleths rule the past and mind flayers rule the future. You happen to have been born in the period in between the two.

There are thralls who would kill to be you.

Also, you can buy things from giant spiders now.
That's flavour text, it can be changed.

For me, as an example:
Mind Flayers: Ruled the future, but their empire collapsed. They sacrificed the Elder Brains and all that jazz so they came back in time. Here, they split into two groups and went to the Human homeworld and their own. At their own homeworld, they found no Illithid population whatsoever, so they started making more and rebuilding the empire. The ones on the campaign world brought Gith slaves who rebelled seeing the empire dead and are the typically described Illithids. The reason they didn't find any other Mind Flayers is easy if you know your time travel physics, and the infinite realities theory :smallwink:

Aboleths: Evolved in a galaxy known as Aberrus, where eventually people from the campaign world made portals to. They shared an empire with the Tsochari, but were betrayed to the Centons (An elemental +/- race nearby) and fled through the portals to the campaign world. They have indeed been around for aeons, having been spawned in the early days of the universe when the Beginners and ID23 were populating it. They're not really Uber-powerful, just really, really old.

[Amphimir Míriel]

Keith Robinson made a homebrewed Illithid replacement for his OGL'd campaign setting, The Kyngdoms (http://www.theKyngdoms.com)

Here it is:

http://www.thekyngdoms.com/bestiary.shtml#khoqqix

BTW, check the rest of the website, it is a great setting and it's free*

* Everything is freely available online, if you want a print or .pdf version you can pay for it.