Samurai dex paladin, feat/ability score choices

[pibby]

First time poster, long time lurker!
Anyways, I'm playing a dex based, half-elf paladin in a friend's campaign. So far I've got the following going for me using the standard ability array (racial bonuses included):
Str: 12
Dex: 16
Con: 14
Int: 8
Wis: 10
Cha: 16
Duelist
Oath of the Ancients
Aside from the above, I'm also planning on taking the Mounted Combat feat at 4th level, raising dex at 8th and 12th, and then raising cha at 16th and 19th.
However, I am concerned about my defenses and I don't plan to raise my str or wear armor that causes disadvantage on stealth considering that I also want to stealth around with this character. Meaning that at best my AC with breastplate and a shield is 18. If I decide to take Medium Armor Mastery that will bump my AC up to 20 with halfplate. I was also thinking about picking up the Shield Master feat considering that my Dex saves will be decent and such saves happen quite often from a statistical standpoint.
Should I be that concerned about AC that I give up ability score increases and if so when should I take each feat and what ability score increase should I give up?

tl;dr, is it worth picking up Medium Armor Mastery or Shield Master?

[Giant2005]

If you are willing to go unarmored, you could take a level of Sorcerer and get that same AC as if you had Medium Armor Master and not have to take the feat. Even if that doesn't work for you, I don't think I'd advise using a feat to gain the +1 AC Medium Armor Mastery would have over Studded Leather.
Shield Master is a harder choice imo and I don't think I am qualified to advise you on that one - I am pretty indecisive too and although Shield Master is awesome, losing 2 Cha would really hurt.

[Regulas]

My first thought is that a samurai shouldn't really be using a shield.

If you are really meaning to be a samurai type char then take Studded leather (a lot of samurai armour was a mix of leather and iron scales so this kinda fits), max you're Dex, that way you have 17 base AC. It's only a dueling style in real life but you could then dual wield and use the feat to get the 18 AC using dual rapiers. Now this would be horribly ineffecient since your using your bonus action already so dual wielding isn't always useful but for some reason shields on a samurai bothers me.

More realistic a Samurai should be using a glaive though but this wouldn't be very dex based.

[silveralen]

Shield master may not be the best choice. I'd either push charisma or take resilient (con) if you are worried about concentration.

[Person_Man]

I think you're fine as-is. 18 AC is respectable. Your hit points are decent. You'll be using Stealth, so presumably you'll make smart tactical decisions about when and how to get into combat. You're going to have excellent Saves once you hit level 6, and IIRC Resistance to Magic at level 7 (Which when put together is a huge deal. When my characters die, its almost always magic that kills them). Plus you have healing and a smattering of immunities. And if worse comes to worse, your mount should be fast enough that you can retreat from combat without being caught.

Having said that, its worth noting that Paladins are more MAD then other classes, so they do tend to suffer a bit when they use a standard array or point buy to determine ability scores. If possible, I would ask the DM if you can roll for your scores (and hope you get lucky) or use point buy instead of standard array so that you can drop Str and Wis lower in favor of higher Dex/Con/Cha.

Also, if another party member is playing a Druid, have them Wild Shape and ride them as your mount. That way its more likely that enemy attacks will be split between you, and they'll benefit greatly from the Mounted Combat feat.

[Demonic Spoon]

Having said that, its worth noting that Paladins are more MAD then other classes, so they do tend to suffer a bit when they use a standard array or point buy to determine ability scores. If possible, I would ask the DM if you can roll for your scores (and hope you get lucky) or use point buy instead of standard array so that you can drop Str and Wis lower in favor of higher Dex/Con/Cha.


Dice rolls average out to around the same as point buy or standard array. Dice rolls have the potential to be really awesome for a paladin, but they also have the potential to really sink you if you get less than average luck.

[pibby]

My first thought is that a samurai shouldn't really be using a shield.

If you are really meaning to be a samurai type char then take Studded leather (a lot of samurai armour was a mix of leather and iron scales so this kinda fits), max you're Dex, that way you have 17 base AC. It's only a dueling style in real life but you could then dual wield and use the feat to get the 18 AC using dual rapiers. Now this would be horribly ineffecient since your using your bonus action already so dual wielding isn't always useful but for some reason shields on a samurai bothers me.

More realistic a Samurai should be using a glaive though but this wouldn't be very dex based.

Well eastern weapons aren't really a thing yet in 5e, but my DM had let me reskin my rapier as a wakizashi that I use iaijutsu techniques with and the shield is the wakizashi's scabbard. I always like to reskin my characters despite what labels the roleplaying books give them; in another game I had a bard that proclaims herself to be a red mage from final fantasy.


I think you're fine as-is. 18 AC is respectable. Your hit points are decent. You'll be using Stealth, so presumably you'll make smart tactical decisions about when and how to get into combat. You're going to have excellent Saves once you hit level 6, and IIRC Resistance to Magic at level 7 (Which when put together is a huge deal. When my characters die, its almost always magic that kills them). Plus you have healing and a smattering of immunities. And if worse comes to worse, your mount should be fast enough that you can retreat from combat without being caught.

Having said that, its worth noting that Paladins are more MAD then other classes, so they do tend to suffer a bit when they use a standard array or point buy to determine ability scores. If possible, I would ask the DM if you can roll for your scores (and hope you get lucky) or use point buy instead of standard array so that you can drop Str and Wis lower in favor of higher Dex/Con/Cha.

Also, if another party member is playing a Druid, have them Wild Shape and ride them as your mount. That way its more likely that enemy attacks will be split between you, and they'll benefit greatly from the Mounted Combat feat.

Well my DM wants us to use point buy so if I were to do that I would have scores of 15, 15, 14, 10, 8, 8 (before racial). If I decide to go that route would it be "correct" to have Str 8 and Wis 10? And yes, we do in fact have a Moon Druid :)

[Person_Man]

Dice rolls average out to around the same as point buy or standard array. Dice rolls have the potential to be really awesome for a paladin, but they also have the potential to really sink you if you get less than average luck.

You are technically correct. (The best kind of correct! (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCMQyCkwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dhou 0lU8WMgo&ei=KWBuVOfJH9f_yQTmmIKIDA&usg=AFQjCNE9n3dKrzzWQXJqPpcstfVQf66KGA&sig2=fEDL0D92hLXkmPVyqYqpog&bvm=bv.80185997,d.aWw))

But the first/standard methodology presented in the DMG for determining Ability Scores is roll 4d6, drop the lowest die, repeat until you have six scores, then assign the scores as you prefer, then apply racial modifiers. On average, this methodology leads to ability scores that are (very slightly) higher then those offered by the point buy and standard array methodologies.

More importantly, using the standard array or point buy, the highest score you can get prior to racial modifiers is 15. Whereas if you roll, there's a 30%ish chance of getting at least one ability score of 17 or 18. And critically, most DMs will not force a player to use cruddy rolls. They give you a mulligan if you roll poorly, dramatically increasing the probability that you will have higher then average rolls. (It's almost like having Advantage on your Ability Score rolls). And if the DM does force the player to use cruddy Ability Score rolls, their character will typically die quickly (Often helped along by character choices. Bob the Brave believes that checking for traps is for cowards!). This giv the player the opportunity to roll again for a new character, giving the player yet another chance to get high rolls.

So from a player's perspective, there is basically no down side to rolling for ability scores if the DM allows it. Personally I don't allow it when I DM, specifically to avoid this metagame issue and character imbalances. I just allow an elite array or point buy, so that MAD classes aren't screwed. But I've noticed that I'm the exception, not the norm.

[Safety Sword]

You are technically correct. (The best kind of correct! (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCMQyCkwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dhou 0lU8WMgo&ei=KWBuVOfJH9f_yQTmmIKIDA&usg=AFQjCNE9n3dKrzzWQXJqPpcstfVQf66KGA&sig2=fEDL0D92hLXkmPVyqYqpog&bvm=bv.80185997,d.aWw))

But the first/standard methodology presented in the DMG for determining Ability Scores is roll 4d6, drop the lowest die, repeat until you have six scores, then assign the scores as you prefer, then apply racial modifiers. On average, this methodology leads to ability scores that are (very slightly) higher then those offered by the point buy and standard array methodologies.

More importantly, using the standard array or point buy, the highest score you can get prior to racial modifiers is 15. Whereas if you roll, there's a 30%ish chance of getting at least one ability score of 17 or 18. And critically, most DMs will not force a player to use cruddy rolls. They give you a mulligan if you roll poorly, dramatically increasing the probability that you will have higher then average rolls. (It's almost like having Advantage on your Ability Score rolls). And if the DM does force the player to use cruddy Ability Score rolls, their character will typically die quickly (Often helped along by character choices. Bob the Brave believes that checking for traps is for cowards!). This giv the player the opportunity to roll again for a new character, giving the player yet another chance to get high rolls.

So from a player's perspective, there is basically no down side to rolling for ability scores if the DM allows it. Personally I don't allow it when I DM, specifically to avoid this metagame issue and character imbalances. I just allow an elite array or point buy, so that MAD classes aren't screwed. But I've noticed that I'm the exception, not the norm.

You're not that unusual Person_Man.... well, in this case, anyway. I always allow an elite array.

The other thing that happened was a player driven decision that allowed my players to roll a set of ability scores each, and then every character used the chosen set. That turned out OK because everyone got stuck with the same numbers (which coincidentally ended up very similar to the elite array I offered...).

Just make sure you communicate with your DM and know how they handle all this junk before you decide on the nitty gritty.

[Regulas]

Well eastern weapons aren't really a thing yet in 5e, but my DM had let me reskin my rapier as a wakizashi that I use iaijutsu techniques with and the shield is the wakizashi's scabbard. I always like to reskin my characters despite what labels the roleplaying books give them; in another game I had a bard that proclaims herself to be a red mage from final fantasy.


Well that works out if your DM is letting you use the sheath as a shield (I guess it's an iron sheath).

For the most part I don't see most easten weapons as being different enough to need different rules, i.e. a Naginata [the principle samurai melee weapon for most of their history] is just a type of Glaive.

Re-skinning is the only way for me to play non-magical classes... by making them magical. i.e. Barbarian is actually a Transmuter who's specialized in improving his body. So all his class features are actually the result of enhancements, and Rage is like a magical surge empowering him, but also clouding his mind. My mind is unwilling to comprehend how in a world of magic someone would not use it (unless they were explicitly an anti-magic specialist.

[Safety Sword]

My mind is unwilling to comprehend how in a world of magic someone would not use it (unless they were explicitly an anti-magic specialist.

I live in a world where there is science, and not everyone uses it.

People grow up and are influenced in different ways, have different educational opportunities and different motivations.

[Yagyujubei]

My first thought is that a samurai shouldn't really be using a shield.

If you are really meaning to be a samurai type char then take Studded leather (a lot of samurai armour was a mix of leather and iron scales so this kinda fits), max you're Dex, that way you have 17 base AC. It's only a dueling style in real life but you could then dual wield and use the feat to get the 18 AC using dual rapiers. Now this would be horribly ineffecient since your using your bonus action already so dual wielding isn't always useful but for some reason shields on a samurai bothers me.

More realistic a Samurai should be using a glaive though but this wouldn't be very dex based.

just throwing out there, samurai wore armor as heavy as splint mail in war situations.

[Regulas]

I live in a world where there is science, and not everyone uses it.

People grow up and are influenced in different ways, have different educational opportunities and different motivations.

Science vs non science is like trained fighting style vs amateur.

Magic vs non-magic; is equivalent to running into a police station and trying to kill everyone... using only a butter knife. Magic in D&D is manifest real individual personal power.



just throwing out there, samurai wore armor as heavy as splint mail in war situations.

I was keeping in mind that he was going to be playing a Dex Samurai specifically so if your going dex then just take light armour and it was just cool that samurai are one of the only people other then mongols to actually use something that could be called studded leather (sort of) which otherwise does not exist..

Splint is a whole other thing. In real life splint is almost ALWAYS arm armour and not full armor. It was used a lot between Samurai to european Knights, but almost exclusively as arm coverings.

[Knaight]

just throwing out there, samurai wore armor as heavy as splint mail in war situations.

From a sheer weight perspective, samurai armor got as heavy as plate, easily. It never got quite as sophisticated, but from a mechanical perspective I'd be more inclined to take mail's stats. Plus, it's not like D&D weapons and armor have ever been all that realistic.

The weapon side is easier - you've got your bows, you've got your spears, you've got swords with obvious analogs, and you're basically done. Then there's the matter of horses.

[Regulas]

From a sheer weight perspective, samurai armor got as heavy as plate, easily. It never got quite as sophisticated, but from a mechanical perspective I'd be more inclined to take mail's stats. Plus, it's not like D&D weapons and armor have ever been all that realistic.

The weapon side is easier - you've got your bows, you've got your spears, you've got swords with obvious analogs, and you're basically done. Then there's the matter of horses.

They also just directly used mail. Biggest problem japan has was the really really crappy quality Iron (often coming mostly from Iron sand) they had. But anyway Chainmail and Iron scale armour were the mainstays of what they used (stereotypical japanese armour is laquered Iron scales with chainmail at the joints).

[toapat]

If you are willing to go unarmored, you could take a level of Sorcerer and get that same AC as if you had Medium Armor Master and not have to take the feat.

not without 13 str. Paladin multiclassing is absurd in 5th because of the attribute prerequisites involving an attribute they dont actually require

[Oscredwin]

What about the magic initiate feat taking mage armor, true strike (or firebolt), and some other sorcerer cantrip (I like prestidigitation or mage hand, personally)? It keeps the unarmored feel.

[EugeneVoid]

True Strike seems really fitting, though unoptimal.