PDA

View Full Version : DM Help Refluffing Psionics



Roxxy
2014-11-20, 02:50 PM
I'm talking Dreamscarred Press, but that's similar enough to what was in 3.5 for the purposes of this thread. I own Psionics Unleashed, Psionics Expanded, and Psionics Augmented. I don't have too many mechanical issues with the books (though I can't allow players access to some of the abilities that make investigations really easy), and the classes themselves are well enough designed, but I don't like the whole psionic flavor. I can't put my finger on why, but I just can't get excited about it or feel like it really fits. I looked into the Rune Magic thing, but I dunno. So I'm looking for some ideas on what I could refluff psionics into in my campaign setting. I'm focusing on the classes, because I don't really plan on using the races. Here's some stuff about the setting I'm trying to fit this stuff into:

Thyressa is a magitech setting that focuses on an American flavor. The game takes place during a magic-fueled industrial revolution that began in the wake of a Great War that ended with the gods dead. Prior to the death of the gods, arcane magic was uncommon, but when the gods died it flooded the world, greatly increasing the power available to human spellcasters. Since Thyressa was the continent least touched by the war, its nations have taken over as the richest in the world.

Games set in Thyressa focus on monster hunting and dealing with rogue mages. When arcane magic poured into the world, it greatly increased the power and number of monsters in the world. The best humanity seems able to do is keep the monsters at bay. The only reason people in Thyressa live as well as they do is because of the warriors to fight and die every day so that the average citizen can go about life without having to worry about some beast coming for them in the middle of the night. That’s where the player characters come in. Even in densely settled areas, it seems like the undead, lycanthropes, fae, and other monsters never stop turning up. When they do, skilled professionals like the player characters show up to end the threat they pose. They also handle those mages who abuse magic, because the skillset and experience level necessary is similar and they pose just as much a threat. In essence, the player characters are the ones who face death on a daily basis so that everyone else doesn't have to.

Whenever I write settings, I tend to be optimistic, writing worlds I would like to live in. Nations that are pretty nice places don't lend themselves well to adventuring, though, so I had to shift the focus of the setting in a different direction. Having a group of threats that is kept at bay by courageous Royal agents, and letting the players be those agents, seems a good way of having a nice place to live in but still having plenty of things for PCs to fight.

Thyressa has fairly advanced magitech. Alchemy is the most common form of magic by far, with Alchemists outnumbering every other magic using class. Witches come next in terms of commonality, then Wizards. Witches practice an ancient form of magic that still has some practitioners, but they aren't common, and most people learn the secrets of witchcraft from family. Wizards are a newer development that melds magic and science, but it takes so long to learn (they usually start studying in their preteen years) and is so difficult to master that they are even rarer than Witches are. They can be arcane or divine (arcane witches have spellbooks, divine witches familiars). Divine spellcasters get their power by making deals with angels, demons, or spirits, or by the sheer power of their convictions (Paladins) and have always been rare, with Paladins being the rarest of the rare in the setting. Summoners are divine. This setting does not ban any Paizo base classes. It should be noted that basically every caster that isn't an Alchemist is rare to some degree. Though PCs can be any class, when it comes to NPCs Alchemists have massive dominance in terms of sheer numbers.

Mass production is a thing. Most of the clothing people wear came out of a factory, and the same applies to household and recreational goods. Canning and freezing have been mastered, and food can easily and cheaply be transported worldwide. Weapons are easily to make, but armor takes a bit longer because it has to be reasonably well fitted to the wearer. People generally have access to internal plumbing and electricity, though battery technology is very poor. We do have rotary phones, cameras (no motion pictures, though), and the printing press, and literacy is very common. Medical care is mostly administered by Experts or Alchemists.

Trains, fueled by alchemical engines, are ubiquitous for travel between cities. For travel within cities, bicycles and cable cars are dominant, though the horse is anywhere near obsolete. Alchemical engines are powerful, but they are also extremely dangerous, and a trained professional has to be present at all times during operation. Flight is even more dangerous, and only magic users can pull it off at the moment. We don’t have any passenger vehicles that can fly. Ships use alchemical engines.

Firearms exist, and are relatively common, but have not overtaken the bow or crossbow. This is because soldiers tend to fight in scattered formations to avoid offering an enticing target to magical artillery. Volley tactics are a militia thing, so the arquebus is a weapon of the militiaman, city guard, hunter, or rancher, while soldiers and guardsmen with sufficient training use bows or crossbows fitted with mechanical spanners, because these weapons make less noise, don’t throw smoke everywhere, and can be fired faster.

From a flavor point of view, the setting focuses on an area similar to America, especially coastal areas (Kelsey likes the ocean and things that go into the ocean. Lots.). In terms of major cultures, Western and Central European, Mediterranean, East Asian, South Asian, Arabian, Persian, American Indian/First Nation, Polynesian, Latin American, Mesoamerican, and South American cultures all have pretty big influences on the setting. I am a user of the Fantasy Counterpart Culture.

At the moment, I focus a lot on my analog of California, which is as Chinese as it is British (And I do portray being historically British as culturally different than being historically American. British rule isn't only a replacement for the fact that I lack a United States analog.) and used to be Spanish, and has a large Japanese, Korean, and Vietnamese population, a historically important but small Persian community, and rising numbers of Indian, German, and Greek immigrants. Unfortunately bad things were done to the natives, and Puebla, Navajo, and Salish are the only tribes that haven't mostly died out.

Other major 3PP rules in use are Path of War, the Super Genius/Rogue Genius Talented Class line, and the Super Genius/Rogue Genius spell variants. I like Super Genius/Rogue Genius spell points, but I only use them if people know how.

Given this information, what kind of magic could I turn psionics into that would feel cool and fitting?

Psyren
2014-11-20, 03:09 PM
Before you even go down this road, why do you want psionics (or "not-psionics") in this setting at all? You don't seem to want the fluff, so that is out. Is there something that a psion can do mechanically that the other casters in your setting can't, that you want your PCs or NPCs to have access to? (It sounds like you're already stripping out one of those key differentiators, i.e. a seer's greater investigative ability.) Or is it the point-based system of casting that gets away from Vancian that you like? Or are you just adding it because a player asked for it or because you want to use these books you have lying around?

Basically, if the fluff isn't appealing, you need to nail down exactly what psionics is bringing to the table that you can't get through standard magic before going any further.

Also, as an aside - you mentioned no classes were banned but you don't seem to have sorcerers mentioned either, or indeed any form of spontaneous casting at all. Your background fluff for wizardry and alchemy won't really work for the other casters because their magic is a lot less procedural.

Roxxy
2014-11-20, 03:26 PM
Before you even go down this road, why do you want psionics (or "not-psionics") in this setting at all? You don't seem to want the fluff, so that is out. Is there something that a psion can do mechanically that the other casters in your setting can't, that you want your PCs or NPCs to have access to? (It sounds like you're already stripping out one of those key differentiators, i.e. a seer's greater investigative ability.) Or is it the point-based system of casting that gets away from Vancian that you like? Or are you just adding it because a player asked for it or because you want to use these books you have lying around?

Basically, if the fluff isn't appealing, you need to nail down exactly what psionics is bringing to the table that you can't get through standard magic before going any further.It's a mix of having the books and wanting to get use out of them, liking the casting mechanics (Psions feel more... natural as spellcasters, like it's second nature to them, and they have such innate flexibility), and having friends who like the casting mechanics. I also would like to maybe have a type of spellcasting that isn't ubiquitous like alchemy but isn't so rare as basically everything else.

But yea, I think the Seer would prove to be too powerful in the sort of game this setting facilitates.


Also, as an aside - you mentioned no classes were banned but you don't seem to have sorcerers mentioned either, or indeed any form of spontaneous casting at all. Your background fluff for wizardry and alchemy won't really work for the other casters because their magic is a lot less procedural.We do have Sorcerers, but they aren't a major caster. It's something that happens once in a blue moon, but the majority don't survive childhood, because non-procedural magic is just about the most dangerous thing, and giving it to children makes it even worse. It's easier for spontaneous divine casters, because they are older when they get magic and their source can wean them into it. Oracles are an exception. Nobody chooses to create them, they just happen, and they are about as likely to survive their early years as a Sorcerer.

Basically, it comes down to the fact that directly manipulating magic takes a very long time to learn, and is either very procedural and dangerous, or just gigantically dangerous. Alchemists don't actually directly manipulate magic, they manipulate the substances that have specific magical properties, and those substances do the work. That is both much easier to learn and much safer than Wizardry (not to say that Alchemists never get blown up), so Alchemists are the dominant spellcaster, and a spellcaster who isn't an Alchemist is something pretty rare and special (Which is okay for a PC, given that PCs are already some of the most badass troops available to governments. It kind of makes sense that the rare, special spellcasters would also be among the best available combat forces.).

Xsatra
2014-11-20, 03:33 PM
Option one: Psionics are innate magic you're born with, à la sorcerers. The concept of psionics does not exist in setting, it's simply treated as magic, albeit it's a talent you're born with rather than one you can attain through training. Full magic/psionic transparency should be used here.

Option two: Psionics are the act of harnessing ki and potentially anyone can learn it. Perhaps your not!Asians practice it rather than arcane magic. Could be a point of conflict. Might not want to have magic/psionic transparency for this option.

Additionally, you could strip out the parts that don't sit right with you, whatever they may be. I think you could benefit from trying to identify more precisely what it is you don't like, or even rethink why you feel the need to include psionics if it doesn't sit right with you.

Psyren
2014-11-20, 03:57 PM
If it mostly boils down to "I want to use my books" then... I dunno. The thing about psionics, especially if you end up making it more common than magic the way you're suggesting here, is that it has some pretty fundamental implications for a setting. And if there's nothing specific you want out of it then taking those things into account might be more trouble than it's worth. In-setting, you need to explain why people can't simply choose to become psionic (can they?), how psionics and psionicisits are detected and counteracted in civilized areas, how dangerous psions are treated and punished, why alchemy is so much more common than a form of power that is eminently more practical and harder to take away etc. From a metagame stance, you need to deal with the nova problem, self-sufficiency, party balance and possible redundancy. It just seems like a lot for little gain.

Roxxy
2014-11-21, 03:06 AM
Okay, I think I got it. Psionics and Ki are the same concept, but it comes on a spectrum. At the lowest end of the spectrum, you have your Fighters. They have this sort of innate level of internal power that lets them do some things a normal person couldn't, such as take a lightning bolt to the chest without serious injury or wrestle a bear. They haven't really developed that internal power all that much, though. Further down the spectrum are your Gunslingers and Swashbucklers, who have developed it a bit more and have Panache and Grit, then you get to Barbarians, who use it to fuel their primal connection to the land (I use Talented Barbarian, which gives Barbarians a primal power resource pool and lets them choose their abilities. They can get rage, but don't have to.), and after that you hit Rogues and Monks with their ki (I use Talented Rogue and Monk, so any Rogue or Monk who wants ki can buy it.), which is a much more developed version of this power, then as you develop it even further you get into Psionics.

Just need to come up with a name for this power (Don't like Psionics as a name, and Ki is too specific to certain class functions), and a way of distinguishing different levels of mastery.

Extra Anchovies
2014-11-21, 03:47 AM
Just need to come up with a name for this power (Don't like Psionics as a name, and Ki is too specific to certain class functions), and a way of distinguishing different levels of mastery.

Soul-channeling. Not sure why, but that sounds like it might work. Prepared casting comes from the mind, spontaneous casting from the body (well, heritage, but close enough), and psionics from the soul.

Roxxy
2014-11-21, 04:34 AM
Soul-channeling. Not sure why, but that sounds like it might work. Prepared casting comes from the mind, spontaneous casting from the body (well, heritage, but close enough), and psionics from the soul.
Wait. The gods got revolted against and killed by people. People now control their own fate. Some can do this better than others, and can transcend the physical. Like Clerics, but of the human condition These people may be rogues or monks with ki, or they may be mages like wizards but more new agey than scientific.

Psionics are the Frued to the Wizard Einstein, and if they Alchemist is the mad scientist, the Psionics are the psycho therapist.

Soul channeling fits that. Gods were abusing people's souls, people rose up and took them into their own hands, and suddenly we have Soul Channelers who transcend physical and mental limits and are paragons of a new paradigm, where we control the potential of our own souls.

Extra Anchovies
2014-11-21, 04:47 AM
we control the potential of our own souls.

Hm. I really like that angle. Fits well with all the self-modifying and action-economy-boost powers in 3.5, but I'm not sure if those carried over to Pathfinder.

KingAtomsk
2014-11-21, 12:48 PM
...liking the casting mechanics (Psions feel more... natural as spellcasters, like it's second nature to them, and they have such innate flexibility), and having friends who like the casting mechanics. I also would like to maybe have a type of spellcasting that isn't ubiquitous like alchemy but isn't so rare as basically everything else.

You could explore using the Spell Points (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/spellPoints.htm) rules variant to get that natural feel for spellcasters. It replaces Vancian casting with a system which is similar to Power Points, allowing casters to cast with more versatility in exchange for expending a metaphysical resource.

JusticeZero
2014-11-21, 01:03 PM
I don't see why this is an issue. I banned all arcane and divine spellcasters full stop, and it ran fine. It was just "the way magic works". Items had to be handmade a lot more and downtime healing was an issue.

Squark
2014-11-21, 01:29 PM
You could explore using the Spell Points (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/spellPoints.htm) rules variant to get that natural feel for spellcasters. It replaces Vancian casting with a system which is similar to Power Points, allowing casters to cast with more versatility in exchange for expending a metaphysical resource.

I'd be wary of spell points. You get every upside of magic (Of which there are a ton), with the added flexibility of psionics. While base spell points are lower (to make up for free augmentation), bonus spell points per day are significantly more uneven as well.


@JusticeZero: What works for you works for you, but in general, emphasizing magic/psionic item crafting as the primary source of magic items tends to either exasperate power differences between magic-users and non magic-users, or make the casters/manifesters resentful of being several levels lower than everyone else.

Psyren
2014-11-21, 01:43 PM
Hm. I really like that angle. Fits well with all the self-modifying and action-economy-boost powers in 3.5, but I'm not sure if those carried over to Pathfinder.

Synchronicity and Anticipatory Strike didn't, but PF psionics added toys as well, like the Hustle Power feat which lets you manifest any power as a move action.

Ninjaxenomorph
2014-11-21, 03:44 PM
You could flavor it similarly to what Paizo itself is doing with the Occult stuff, and flavor it as just another aspect of magic, gained from inner power, but not as inclusive as Sorcerers. It can be taught and learned, but some it has to be 'unlocked' first.

JusticeZero
2014-11-21, 11:17 PM
@JusticeZero: What works for you works for you, but in general, emphasizing magic/psionic item crafting as the primary source of magic items tends to either exasperate power differences between magic-users and non magic-users, or make the casters/manifesters resentful of being several levels lower than everyone else.
There were lots of items. However, many items required spells that did not exist anywhere in the universe, so were unavailable. Also, numerous effects were available which were useful items that didn't exist. Other items required re -tuning.

Gemini476
2014-11-22, 04:15 AM
Since we're talking about DSP's psionics, have you seen the rune magic adaptation they suggest in Ultimate Psionics? I don't remember if it's available online somewhere.

Psyren
2014-11-22, 10:19 AM
Since we're talking about DSP's psionics, have you seen the rune magic adaptation they suggest in Ultimate Psionics? I don't remember if it's available online somewhere.

She mentioned it in the OP, yeah.

Prime32
2014-11-22, 04:54 PM
You could flavor it similarly to what Paizo itself is doing with the Occult stuff, and flavor it as just another aspect of magic, gained from inner power, but not as inclusive as Sorcerers. It can be taught and learned, but some it has to be 'unlocked' first.But Paizo haven't been fluffing the Occult stuff as drawing on inner power. :smallconfused: They've been fluffing it as directing the power of symbolism and emotion found in other creatures and objects (and sometimes opening your soul up to eldritch parasites that gnaw on it in exchange for power).


Basically, it comes down to the fact that directly manipulating magic takes a very long time to learn, and is either very procedural and dangerous, or just gigantically dangerous. Alchemists don't actually directly manipulate magic, they manipulate the substances that have specific magical properties, and those substances do the work. That is both much easier to learn and much safer than Wizardry (not to say that Alchemists never get blown up), so Alchemists are the dominant spellcaster, and a spellcaster who isn't an Alchemist is something pretty rare and special (Which is okay for a PC, given that PCs are already some of the most badass troops available to governments. It kind of makes sense that the rare, special spellcasters would also be among the best available combat forces.).Psionics seems a natural extension of this then. Psychic powers are controlled completely by the user's will, which makes it easier to use the same power in different ways, but at the same time you're limited by the number and complexity of factors your mind can hold at once. Spells by contrast rely on "scripts" (whether in the spell itself and/or something like the Weave) that enable complex/independently-acting effects like magic mouth, but it's hard to deviate from the standard formula unless you specifically learn how to "hack" them with metamagic.

So just say that psions were the first magic-users, but wizardry was developed to make it safer and more versatile (and possibly to open it up to people who have keen minds but lack raw power or focus). All wizards start as potential psions, but their natural habits are quickly beaten out of them and replaced by formal methods - it's much like a street brawler compared to a martial artist.
Harry Potter has a good example of this kind of thing, where before Harry starts going to wizard school he's able to make the glass in a zoo disappear just by thinking about it. Afterwards he can only use specific spells that he's learned, and using them without an incantation is a high-level skill (represented by retraining his psion level to a wizard level).

Nightingale
2014-11-22, 05:22 PM
Ok, after reading the setting fluff I got an idea that might work.Bioshock plasmids.
Make psionics a recently discovered gene modifying operation, with legal and illegal branches. The different classes and powers can be themed as different dna splicing techniques, and can be done at a child's age, or even later in life (multiclassing).Fluffwise you can have black market "splicers" that are selling cheap and powerful operations but with significant "overclocking" disadvantages (hello wilder), aspiring athletes could shop around for psychometabolism powers, and cognizance and power stones fluffed as performance enhancers.
The fact that it is an internal mechanism marries the crunch of no material/somatic/verbal and you can tweak the operations' success rate to achieve the degree of rarity you want