Final Fantasy VII d20 Roleplaying Game - VERSION 2.0

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

Hello everyone,

i have decided to make a new thread on this as to keep both versions separate. I have finished a version 2.0, which i have the link to my official website below, and the pdf can be downloaded directly from there.

i would like as much help and support for this as possible. i would like to say a BIG thank you for all the help so far, i really appreciate it. let me know what you think of the new system, good and bad, as it helps me improve the game.

sincerely,

Marc

Final Fantasy VII d20 - VERSION 2.5 (www.finalfantasyviid20roleplayinggame.yolasite.co m)

VERSION 2.1 UPDATE


Altered the Black Mage and White Mage specialisations
Added an extra ability for the Scholar in that they are now able to multiclass up to four times
Added two new magic materia: Control and Dark
Added a new NPC stat block: the Warmage
Corrected the Ramuh materia so that it doesn't read 'Ifrit'
Scholars can now pick any one weapon group of their choice at 1st level
Added rules on Magic Points in the Combat chapter
Changed some techniques so that they have sustain effects
Corrected the medical career so that it now reads Treat Injury instead of Heal (i considered having the Heal skill at one point)

[Starsinger]

I really want to test play this.

[Philemonite]

Downloading, will comment once I get some time to read. It might take some time.

And if you want to playtest it here, I am probably in.

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

Thank you guys, I appreciate it. If you do set up a playtest game on this site, send me a link so that i can see how you guys are doing.

There will be two accessory books for version 2, World of Monsters, which is basically the monster manual, and Shinra's Locker, which delves into vehicles, mechanoids, and cybernetics.

[Philemonite]

After taking a look at the classes there is one thing that seams strange. Scholars don't have Melee Strike, Ranged Strike or Spellcasting. They have no way of dealing any meaningful damage. That really sucks.:smallfrown:

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

They are considered cross-class skills, so they can still spend skill points in them to gain proficiency.

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

Skill training has been abolished, and replaced with s fusion of the skill ranks system of 3.5 and the skill proficiency system of 5e.

[Philemonite]

They are considered cross-class skills, so they can still spend skill points in them to gain proficiency.

But they have to pay double for every rank and they can't spend as many points as other classes. That's reduced potential and waste of skill points, for something you have to use.

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

Fair point, if anything they would have Ranged Strike as a class skill. I designed the scholar to be more of a party buffer than an actual combatant. If looked at another way, a party of four players: A white mage, a black mage, a dragoon, and a scholar. You have WM healing the party, BM dedicated to ranged spellcasting, D in melee and ranged fighting as polearms allow you to do both, and S for buffing the group.

[Philemonite]

Fair point, if anything they would have Ranged Strike as a class skill. I designed the scholar to be more of a party buffer than an actual combatant. If looked at another way, a party of four players: A white mage, a black mage, a dragoon, and a scholar. You have WM healing the party, BM dedicated to ranged spellcasting, D in melee and ranged fighting as polearms allow you to do both, and S for buffing the group.

I can see one way you can do that without making Scholar that one class nobody is ever going to pick, give them unlimited multiclass, like Bards in 4E. This will make them the ultimate jack and the most flexible class, without being too powerful.

Reflex is used for both Melee Strike and Ranged Strike?
What's the point of Fortitude?

If I understand it correctly Black Mage is seriously shafted. They can either cast only one elemental reasonably well, with penalty to all other elemental spells, or they can only use ailments reasonably well, with penalty to all other spells.

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

This is why I need help lol. I can easily change Reflex back to Fortitude in terms of ranged abilities, but how could I improve on the others?

[Philemonite]

This is why I need help lol. I can easily change Reflex back to Fortitude in terms of ranged abilities, but how could I improve on the others?

What others?

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

The black mage and the scholar. What is the best way to make the scholar a jack of all trades-like class, and how could I make the black mage less shafted?

[Philemonite]

The black mage and the scholar. What is the best way to make the scholar a jack of all trades-like class, and how could I make the black mage less shafted?

Black Mage
Conditioning Specialty-Apply the penalty only to healing and support spells. Elemental spells are cast normally.
Elemental Specialty-This one is tricky. I would say change the penalty to affect a number of other elements, but not all. With 11 damage types I would go with 5. You get a BM that owns one element, can dabble in 5 and can't really use other 5. Maybe go with 7/3 split of you want to limit it more.

Scholar
Removing MC limitations should be enough to make them a good jack. And maybe you can let them pick their own weapon proficiency.

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

Sounds brilliant, ill change them as soon as possible. Anything else you've seen that needs attention?

[Philemonite]

Sounds brilliant, ill change them as soon as possible. Anything else you've seen that needs attention?

WM summoning specialty comes with a very big penalty that makes them almost useless for the rest of the encounter. If I understand it correctly the get +5 to their first summoning spell and after that they get -5 to any summoning spell and -10 to any other spell. The only way to actually benefit from this specialty is to use the summoning to end the encounter, and that makes the extra summoning per encounter completely useless. Maybe make the penalty apply to all spells except summoning? That way you either use other spells or switch to summoning mode and make the other spells useless until the next encounter.

I didn't really look through other classes, I am mostly interested in casters.

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

Thank you, I now know who to go to for help on the casters ;). I'll make those changes as well.

[Philemonite]

Thank you, I now know who to go to for help on the casters ;). I'll make those changes as well.

There are some minor issues I have. In the weapon list it says that BM gets Rods and WM gets Staves, but in the class info it is reversed. I personally thing BM should get Rods and WM should get Staves. This is how FFTA does weapons, and FFIX reverses this for some reason.

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

That's easy to correct. Aerith uses both rods and staves, and there is a feat where you can gain proficiency with a second weapon group. Just thought I say that now before someone asks about it lol.

[Philemonite]

That's easy to correct. Aerith uses both rods and staves, and there is a feat where you can gain proficiency with a second weapon group. Just thought I say that now before someone asks about it lol.

Yes, but class info say one thing and the weapon list says another.

Does Pray hit automatically?

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

Swapping over the weapon proficiencies is simple enough. Pray does hit automatically, hence why it can only be used a number of times per encounter.

[Philemonite]

Swapping over the weapon proficiencies is simple enough. Pray does hit automatically, hence why it can only be used a number of times per encounter.

You missed my point, I don't know which one is correct.:smalleek: It's a minor thing, but you should add it to the list of minor corrections that need to be made.
If this ever gets playtested here I will be torn between Scholar and White Mage.

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

Sorry, that was my fault. Rods are BM and Staves are WM. The changes have now been addressed, but I'll wait for more input before I post V 2.1.

[Philemonite]

Sorry, that was my fault. Rods are BM and Staves are WM. The changes have now been addressed, but I'll wait for more input before I post V 2.1.

It happens. I once had wrong damage listed in my skill list, and that spread to all personas (it was a persona game) that had that skill. I didn't even notice it for weeks (maybe even months).
You could make a list of changes you are about to make in the first post. That way people won't have to read the entire thread to know what is going to change, and they can avoid addressing something that has already been fixed.

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

Just done it. As more problems come up, ill add them to the list.

[Philemonite]

All ranged techniques using Ranged Strike skill will change the defence score you roll against from Reflex to Fortitude.

Maybe it's just me, but I think it makes a lot more sense to have Melee Strike be based on Fortitude and Ranged Strike on Reflex?:smallconfused:
I use:
Strength Vs Vitality-Melee
Dexterity Vs Agility-Ranged
Intelligence Vs Wisdom-Magic
for a Vandal Hearts tabletop I am working on.

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

Maybe it's just me, but I think it makes a lot more sense to have Melee Strike be based on Fortitude and Ranged Strike on Reflex?:smallconfused:
I use:
Strength Vs Vitality-Melee
Dexterity Vs Agility-Ranged
Intelligence Vs Wisdom-Magic
for a Vandal Hearts tabletop I am working on.

Made the alteration in the main post. Is there anything else relating to the casters that need improving on?

[Philemonite]

Made the alteration in the main post. Is there anything else relating to the casters that need improving on?

Nothing comes to mind at the moment. I only glanced at the Materia section, I might have something more once I give it a thorough read.

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

One thing I need to do about the materia, now you reminded me, is to increase the mp cost as, especially at later levels, characters will have plenty of mp to play with, and challenging encounters would need to force players to use up a lot of resources.

[Philemonite]

One thing I need to do about the materia, now you reminded me, is to increase the mp cost as, especially at later levels, characters will have plenty of mp to play with, and challenging encounters would need to force players to use up a lot of resources.

I didn't really notice it anywhere, does MP recover after every encounter or is it daily?
MP cost on high level spells is very low. Especially for summons, they are extremely cheap, compared to the effect. However, if you are planing to boost the cost of all spells you will need to add a few points to the starting MP. Being a caster at first level would suck if you can't cast even a single spell.

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

Magic points replenish either with an ether or with an extended rest.

[Philemonite]

Are you going to add materia for missing elemental types?
Right now the basic materia provide only Force, Fire, Ice, Thunder and Poison. If you are going to leave it like this I would suggest to make Elemental Specialization only affect those 5.

My suggestion for magic cost:

Blizzard-3
Blizzara-7
Blizzaga-12
Blizzaja(?)-18

My math is failing me, so I can't make a formula for calculation. And I was smart once.

By the way, Ramuh is labeled as Ifrit, so you have two Ifrits.:smalleek:

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

I spotted the issue with Ramuh, that's sorted.

How I have calculated MP cost, using the ice materia as an example, I changed it so that Blizzard: 5; Blizzara: 10; Blizzaga: 20.

Also, as Holy is a plot-device materia, only holy would deal Radiant damage, same with meteor dealing necrotic damage, however Comet also deals necrotic damage. I'm removing gravity as an element, as Demi and Maelstrom remove hit points by a certain amount (1/4 and 1/2 respectively).

[Philemonite]

How I have calculated MP cost, using the ice materia as an example, I changed it so that Blizzard: 5; Blizzara: 10; Blizzaga: 20.

But then Blizzara is mathematically better then Blizzard, it does double damage, for double MP for the same amount of actions. Action economy makes Blizzard completely useless if you have access to Blizarra.


Also, as Holy is a plot-device materia, only holy would deal Radiant damage, same with meteor dealing necrotic damage, however Comet also deals necrotic damage. I'm removing gravity as an element, as Demi and Maelstrom remove hit points by a certain amount (1/4 and 1/2 respectively).

Then Radiant and Necrotic shouldn't be affected by elemental specialization, since it is something you probably won't have access to and even if you do it will be very late in the game.

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

Blizzard can still be useful, especially if you don't have enough mp to cast Blizzara but enough to cast Blizzard. Also, you need to level up the materia to level 2 in order to use Blizzara.

I'll be adding Aero as a low-level wind spell and make a water materia as well.

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

Is there any more feedback?

[Starsinger]

I would add a radiant element "green" materia, name it Pearl or Fade as a nod toward the old SNES censorings of holy. Also add a necrotic green materia Dark, Darkra, Darkga. Not everything necessarily has to be 100% ff7 accurate. I mean you're already treating the summons as god creatures...

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

That sounds logically reasonable. What I have done already is added a new materia called Control, and Level 1 = Aero, Level 2 = Water, and Level 3 = Pearl. The Dark materia sounds good, ill add that in as well.

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

Everybody please check the first post of the thread, i have published version 2.1 to my website and have posted what changes have been made.

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

Is there any more feedback? Also, the World of Monsters book will be ready on the 1st March 2015 :)

[steelsmiter]

Well, I haven't read it, and probably won't because it's exclusive to FF7. Or at least portrays that. Personally I'm more fond of various games that at least make an attempt at a nod to other FFs. Like Dust's game, or Returners, or heck, even a d20 game that was aimed elsewhere besides just 7.

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

Is there any feedback on the system?

[Gan The Grey]

Well, I haven't read it, and probably won't because it's exclusive to FF7. Or at least portrays that. Personally I'm more fond of various games that at least make an attempt at a nod to other FFs. Like Dust's game, or Returners, or heck, even a d20 game that was aimed elsewhere besides just 7.

And this post furthers the thread...how?

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

THE WORLD OF MONSTERS ACCESSORY BOOK/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/finalfantasy7d20/)

The link above is for the 1st of 2 accessory books im making for this version of the FF7 d20 game. enjoy.

[steelsmiter]

And this post furthers the thread...how?
By expressing the statement that its exclusivity is cause for a lower readership rate than would otherwise be the case. Because if you have a system that is built for Final Fantasy in general, you'll get the FFVII fans that you're getting right now, but you'll also get those that don't like FFVII. If you're ok with that exclusivity, that's fine too, just know that it is a thing.

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

This thread is exclusive to Final Fantasy VII. Sorry to be a disappointment and only posts to help progress the system is allowed in this thread.

[Dusk Raven]

Okay, so I recently came across your rules while searching for good FF7-to-D&D conversions. I was only looking for homebrew rules on Materia, because I liked the way it was handled in-game, and wanted to adopt a similar magic system for a setting of my own. But, once I realized that understanding your rules for Materia required understanding the rest of your apparently new rules, I decided to read the entire core book. And I did, though on my read-through I skimmed stuff like techniques, skills, feats, and some other stuff. Still, quite an accomplishment, I think.

I'm currently writing an in-depth examination of the rules, however it saddens me to see that neither you nor anyone else has posted in this thread in some time. A shame, as I like these new rules and would like to improve them. I therefore hope you'll come back to check this thread. After all, this examination is going to be quite long - it's four pages in Word and growing, and I'm not even done with Chapter 3: Classes.

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

Thank you dusk raven for your comment. I had been waiting for others to reply and felt I didn't want to keep spamming posts every few days. The game is currently on version 2.3 and if you go over to my web page (link is in the signature) you will be able to get the most recent version. Hope you enjoy the system.

[Dusk Raven]

Thank you dusk raven for your comment. I had been waiting for others to reply and felt I didn't want to keep spamming posts every few days. The game is currently on version 2.3 and if you go over to my web page (link is in the signature) you will be able to get the most recent version. Hope you enjoy the system.

Wow, that was a fast reply. I can only assume you have e-mail notifications on (a sensible setting, really), given that I checked and the last time you were online was in May, I believe.

Anyway, pleased to hear about the new version... and amused that it came out this very day. If I'm lucky, then at least some of the concerns I'm raising in my evaluation will have been addressed or fixed in the new version... which will require me to read through it again. Good thing I haven't gotten very far on my critique...

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

I do have instant notifications switched on. Take your time reading through it, I would like as much feedback as possible.

The World of Monsters accessory book is also available on my website and the upcoming Shinra's Locker accessory book will be available on the 17th July.

[Dusk Raven]

Okay, I've gotten quite a bit written, but I'm stopping after Chapter three since I had a lot to say and want to see that addressed... and give you time to address that while I write up the rest. Before I start, I want to say that I'm truly amazed at the work you've done. This is a level of homebrewing that I can only dream of. Even writing up the PDF and formatting it, even if I knew what to write, would be more work than I'd be willing to accomplish. So it's with that in mind, I've happily delved into this work, in the intention of improving it.

And there are things that need improving. There is much work yet to be done, and I am not holding back. I'll post here my critique, chapter by chapter, some of which comes from first impressions and some of which comes from re-reading.

Introduction:

OH GODS 20 MULTI-SIDED DICE?! Given the high numbers I would later see in this book, it makes sense. However... I do have to question the wisdom of having so many multi-sided dice. I've gamed with people before and the most I've ever seen is maybe half a dozen sets on a person. There's a reason for that - those sets aren't cheap. If each set is only $5, then 20 sets would be $100. Also, I question the neccessity of having high numbers of dice being rolled. As you add more dice, the range increases, yes, but the curve grows steeper as well, with the average damage, or a number close to it, becoming more and more likely. Anyway, it goes on to say that a trident does 2d8 and a shuriken does 3d6. This, I feel, is misleading - the damage a weapon does, even without modifiers, is heavily dependent on who's using the weapon, specifically whether they're proficient in it and their level. A Dragoon wielding a trident only deals 2d8 damage from 1st to 10th level, and a shuriken... well, none of them do 3d6 under normal circumstances (which is to say, ranged damage times hit rate, this assuming there's no abilities that add or subtract damage dice). But I digress.

Nice summary of the events of each period. The rest of the introduction deals with stuff every D&D veteran knows, so I'll proceed.



Chapter 1: Abilities

Standard fare for D&D. The "standard score package" is slightly higher than D&D's elite array, but no matter. Judging from the rest of what I've read, starting stats aren't going to be quite as important as in D&D.

Now, here I find a contradiction. Wasn't sure whether to address this at the first piece of contradicting information or later, when the contradiction would have been noticed, but since I've already referenced material further down the book, I guess I'll adress it here. In this section, as with later in the Feats section, it describes Melee Stike as being dependent on Strength, but in the skills section it depends on Dexterity. Which is it? Which should it be, for that matter? I actually do think Dexterity would make more sense, especially since later on you merge AC and Reflex saves into Reflex Defense, which implies you're mostly trying to hit the enemy and not just pierce their armor. Besides, Strength is the most useful ability, at least as far as melee combat is concerned.

I really like how "animal intelligence" is now 1-5 and "sapient intelligence" is 6 or higher. I've always felt animal intelligence being 2 or lower was stupid, especially given it implies an average human is five times is smart as your average wolf or raven, which I most definitely feel is untrue. If you describe INT as a measure of IQ (I don't, not the least because I don't care for the concept or measurement of IQ) it also doesn't work, for reasons I won't go into unless they are addressed. So anyway, definitely a positive change here. Now, what's next?



Chapter 2: Races

All right, on to the races. Well, we're certainly not wanting for quantity. Kind of amusing in that several of these races seem to be one-off enemies that don't get any explanation, at least in FF7 proper.

Anyway, humans. Hmm, they get +1 to two ability scores. Interesting. And a +5 bonus to any class skill at level 1? Oh my. Quite a boost for that level. Maybe reduce the boost, split it off into two +2 boosts for different skills, or maybe have it scale as you level? As we progress through the races, I note that the Cetra get +2 to Wisdom and Charisma, and other races seem to only get bonuses as well. We certainly won't want for ability points in this game. I also notice you've adjusted the size rules slightly - the Stealth bonus has been reduced to 2 but Reflex Defence is inceased to 2, and no bonus to hit. We'll see what happens with that. I'm not sure Remnants should be a playable race - not because they're rare, but mostly because, from what I can interpret of Advent Children, Remnants embody a particular aspect of Sephiroth's personality and are driven to seek out Jenova, which kinda limits both a character's personality and motives, to say nothing of moral character. Lastly, the Tonberries have a speed of 2 spaces? That's harsh. Crippling, even. Guess it's ranged combat for them.



Chapter 3: Classes

Ah, time for some fun stuff! Classes are always one of my favorite things to look at, so let's get cracking!

So, starting HP and MP are affected by CON and INT score rather than mod? Well... it's certainly interesting. Certainly makes starting characters a little more durable. It does bring up an interesting design philosophy. In D&D 3.5E, level is a pretty linear measure of power, with the odd effect that you can double your power, at least in terms of HP and BAB, by leveling from 1 to 2, or 2 to 4. I don't neccessarily think power levels should change that drastically over the course of a single level. D&D 4E starts the player off as quite a bit more powerful, more akin to level 1 in an MMO then a strict, start from zero measure of a person's power. Myself, when making games, I flavor it such that, say, level 5 is actually where you start out for a trained adventurer, whereas level 1 is saved for civilians with no training. Perhaps this is because the first game I ever played with a level system was the Pokemon games, where your starter is at level 5, so I never really care to start at 1.

Where was I? Ah yes, Classes. I note that half your level gets added to your defences. Seems reasonable, I do think that defensive ability should increase with level as attack power does, and with the lack of all manner of AC buffs in the form of magic items, this seems reasonable... although we'll run into problems later in this book, as we'll see.

Speaking of levels, we go up to 50 now? Closer in line to the leveling in FF7. It was only in pondering this fact that I realized it made sense for the d20 system to cap at level 20 baring epic levels. Anyway, it appears that skills are restricted based on level at a different rate than in standard D&D, although the rate seems odd - wouldn't it make more sense to upgrade things one point at a time instead of, say, the max proficiency bonus jumping by 3 from 10th to 11th level? In any event, we're going to have a lot of skill points to spend. Given that you've given most of the classes a decent amount of skill points and condensed the existing skills (as well they should be) we're going to have quite a few points to spend. We might actually even be in the position of having to spend points on cross-class skills simply because there's nothing more we can (or wish to) put in a class skill. Seems we're also going to have a lot of HP to go around, which, given a glance at some of the damage the classes can do, seems like a good thing. And, while feat progression has slowed (eventually... I mean, you get two feats within your first two levels... after which it drastically slows to one every four levels? Hmm), ability increases have not. Ability score increases every 4 levels up to 48? I'll take it. Oh, we get two points to spend instead of one? Oh my. We shall indeed not want for ability points. Although, personally I'd reduce it to one but have the increase every two levels. As you may have noticed, I'm not a fan of... what's the word? Punctuated power increases.

Now, specific classes!

Black Mage:
Looking between this and the White Mage... I really don't see much of a difference. Yes, they have different specializations and techniques. Yes, they have a bit of differences in class skills (it amuses me that Black Mage has Streetwise and White Mage doesn't, since Aerith has obviously put a few points into that skill). Yes, Black Mages get Dualcast and Focus, and White Mages get Channel Magic and Prayer. But honestly? I'm not seeing funamental differences in these two classes. There's really nothing stopping a Black Mage from having a bunch of healing Materia (indeed, they even get Clear Tranquil as a technique) or a White Mage from loading up with offensive Materia. And that is kind of the fun of Materia in FF7, in that you could assign whatever spells or abilities you wanted to whoever, which is something I don't believe I've seen before or since. But it does mean that the two mage classes aren't really fundamentally different in most respects.

Maybe there should just be one Mage class, with all the specializations and techniques of the White and Black mages. The problematic bit is in the special features - Dualcast, Focus, Channel Magic, and Prayer. Maybe at character creation you choose any two, or between two sets (the Black and White set), or maybe which abilities you get is determined by your specialization. Anyway, a single Mage class makes sense within the world of FF7. Aerith, if you ignore her Limit Breaks, is really more of a Red Mage, with no particular inclination to healing or damage magic. And I'm not sure the three Remnants from AC count as Black Mages, given their powerful combat skills, and the fact that I think the only time Materia magic was used was when Kadaj summoned Bahamut Sin. And I don't recall any of them using rods.

Anyway, one final note - I notice that the Black Mage's Clear Tranquil and the White Mage's beneficial Techniques require a roll. Fine, but healing effects are actually harder to pull off the stronger the target's fortitude. Which is odd. I mean, I would interpret this, if I saw this in a pre-existing setting, was that the body (and in the case of Fury Brand, the mind) automatically resists all magical effects - even beneficial ones. But in which case Prayer should require a roll. On a side note, Pulse of Life doesn't increase in power as you level like the other techniques.

Dragoon:
Dragoon, yeah! Okay, slight confession - my first encounter with the Dragoon class wasn't in an actual FF game, but a Starcraft custom map RPG (seriously, amazing stuff can be done with map editors) themed after Final Fantasy in general. And since Starcraft units can't jump, what the Dragoon got instead... was a miniature dragon as a pet. And it was awesome. Anyway, I guess Cid is a Dragoon... and I say "I guess" because I never used him much. He was my least favorite character and did nothing to recommend himself over the various other melee characters in the party. But I digress.

Anyway, onto some critique of actual features. Both specializations I found problematic. The Armor Specialization is the main offender. Anyway, it says that the effect is that you apply either half your level or your armor bonus to Reflex Defence... but that's what already happens, isn't it? Meanwhile, you get a penality to speed... with the bizzare result that, because of specializing in armor, you are slower then everybody else using the same armor. At least until you get to 11th level. And then at 21st, you start getting benefits, and no sooner. I was about to write this specialization off as worthless when I saw the 41st level benefit: half your level AND your armor bonus. Holy... forget wizards, this is quadratic leveling at its finest. But are the 40 levels prior worth it?

As for Greater Weapon Specialization... you can use two-handed weapons in one hand. Well, there's no shields, so the only reason to do so would be... to use another weapon in your off hand. Nothing in these rules saying you can't dual-wield two-handed weapons like that. Sure, you'll get a penalty to hit on the off hand but that's offset by the sheer amount of damage you can do. Well worth losing the additional 50% STR modifier bonus that wielding a weapon in two hands would give you. As for the penality, where missing a target by too much gets you an AoO... I haven't seen the Reflex Defence amounts of monsters, or calculated the potential Reflex Defence of NPCs, so I don't know how easily it'd happen. But it'd be pretty likely to happen if you need to roll higher than an 11 on the d20. And its much more likely with the off-hand having a -10 to hit... so maybe dual-wielding those things isn't such a good idea after all. Also, never really seen someone dual-wield spears before. Not even sure what such a fighting style would be like. However, I do think that maybe the penalty should only apply if you're actually trying to one-hand a two-handed weapon, representing the various bits of awkwardness that such a stance entails. Oh, and finally - all polearms are medium, meaning they only take one hand to use anyway.

Now, Ariel Lunge. It's stated that you spend a full round action leaping into the air, and you come down on your next turn. Which is completely consumed by coming down and striking. So that's, what, at least six seconds of air time? Either you jump really high, enough that you'd start adding falling objects damage to your strike and falling damage to yourself, or maybe you just supernaturally hover in the air until you decide to come down. Given that you choose your target on the turn you actually come down, I suspect it's the latter. Either way, I'm sure such an ability would have great out-of-combat applications. At that point you're basically the hero of a platformer. Other notes - that's a seriously frightening skill. At 31st level, it does... 30d8 damage. 135 average damage. I think that's better than most of the Dragoon's techniques. Granted, you need to spend two whole turns dedicated to nothing but the strike, but if you need a lot of damage done at once, the Dragoon is your guy. One final note - it says that the target is "close burst 6" from your point of origin. Wouldn't it be simpler to just say "within 6 spaces?"

Anyway, I'm starting to take a look at the Dragoon's techniques, and if I examined these in-depth I'd never move on to the next class. So I'll just note a discrepency - Penetrating Strike says that it treats the target's Reflex as 5 points lower. But the check is made against the enemy's fortitude. So... should it actually treat their Fort as lower, or is the penalty applied to all normal attacks made against the target thereafter?

Fighter:
All right, the class of our protagonist. Seems pretty basic to start with. Got some better skills now, which is good because Fighters in D&D 3.5 put me in the position of having too few skill points as well as not much worthwhile to put them in. Stealth? Sure! Treat Injury? Hmm.

So, Fighters get +1 to Reflex and Fortitude, and... +2 to Magic Defence? Hmm. Why Magic Defence and not Reflex Defence, which is more akin to physical defence?

Alas, it seems that the defining features of the D&D Fighter are absent. Gone are the Fighter bonus feats (though honestly, last time I played a Fighter I ran out of feats I wanted to take). Gone is the ability of Fighters to wield any weapon they want with skill, especially ranged weapons (as my gaming group found out the hard way, Fighters make better archers than Rangers). In exchange we have... Fighter's Mark and Cleave. Fighter's Mark being your general "I'm over here, hit me" ability (although, something odd - enemies gain "combat advantage" against you, but you get a +2 to Reflex and Magic Defence against them... so what's the point of the penalty and bonus together?) and Cleave being... well, what you'd expect, really, probably more useful than D&D 3.5's Cleave.

Anyway, just a note on the specializations. Dual Weapon specialist looks nice. Too bad the only one-handed swords are at the upper tier of damage and cost. Leaving that aside, it provides a pretty good benefit, although the "penalty" is a bit weird - if your Melee Strike check goes under the target's Reflex, don't you just plain miss anyway? Also, while the penalty to the secondary weapon is reduced, it becomes a bonus instead after a while, with the odd result that your off hand is more accurate than your main hand. Maybe switch it such that it's your main had that recieves the bonus? As for Greater Weapon, I have the same issues here as I did with the Dragoon's specialization of the same name.

Looking over the techiques, I notice several involve using Spellcasting... which is a bit of a problem since Spellcasting isn't a Fighter class skill, so your Spellcasting will be around half the level that, say, Melee Strike has. And at higher level's that's going to wind up being a considerable distance. Just a thought.

Monk:
Ah, the Monk. Ooh, d12 hit dice. That's a plus. In D&D I always thought Monks should have more health - you'd think being able to run like the wind and hit like an avalanch would make them a bit tougher. But in Final Fantasy I think Monks are typically a tank class.

Anyway, specializations. I don't know what "shootfighting" but I think I prefer its specialization to streetfighting, but that's only because Steetfighting's penalty to all skills "until the end of the encounter" (which I assume means during combat in general) would interfere with the Spellcasting that I'd choose to do. And Shootfighting's penalty isn't much of a hinderance, anyway.

Evasion seems good, though I'll have to see the magic section and the bestiary before I learn how often that'll come in play. As for Boost, it seems interesting, but I don't think the penalty should increase - at level 41, I'm relatively sure a -15 penalty would prevent you from actually hitting anything. Even -5 is pretty punishing.

One last thing, and this applies to techniques in general - for Beat Rush, it says you "rush towards a target" reflected in the target being up to 4 spaces away... the question, does that wording imply that you actually move toward the enemy and end up in a space adjascent to it, or do you return to your original location?

Ranger:
Ah, the Ranger... which really looks more like a "Gunner" class. I suspect at this point you may be trying to apply D&D class names to FF jobs, which doesn't always work, especially in this case where the D&D Ranger has almost nothing to do with this Ranger.

So let's see... specializations. Dual Weapon and Greater Weapon. Well, all the Firearms in this book are Medium or smaller, so it would seem Dual Weapon is the way to go. Although, there really isn't a penalty for Greater Weapon - if you're making a ranged attack you provoke an AoO anyway so at that point provoking another one isn't that much worse. But there's still no point because there's no two-handed firearms.

Barrage seems pretty good. +3 attacks for -5 to-hit? Seems like a fair trade. Aim... seems less useful. I mean, spending six seconds aiming? Jeez. I think it's only useful when followed up with Barrage, and at higher levels the Aim bonus offsets the Barrage penalty by quite a bit. By level 36, if your DC for hitting required you to get a 19 or 20 (and it's probably going to be more generous than that,), then after using Aim you WILL hit the foe, barring natural 1s. 10 levels after that, you'll hit with every single Barrage shot under the same circumstances. If you already have a decent to-hit chance you don't really need that big of a bonus, and if you really have that slim of a chance to hit... then you're probably fighting something you shouldn't be. All of this, by the way, can also apply to the Black Mage's Focus ability. This whole thing, by the way, is starting to indicate a love of large numbers, which is problematic in d20 for reasons I'll explain later.

Now, on to techniques. Again, I don't feel like examining every single technique at this time, I'm mostly just skimming through and looking for any glaring problems. And I have found one in Devastating Shot. 2d12 plus level damage, increasing by 1 point every level and 1d12 every 10 levels. So at level 11 we have damage of 3d12+10, ranging from 13 to 46 with an average of 29.5. Now, the same Ranger, with a Lariat (which you actually have a 50% chance of being able to purchase at first level), does 6d8 with a normal attack. 6 to 48, with an average of 27. So Devastating Shot really isn't that much better than a standard shot, and it definitely isn't better than a Barrage. And it has less range. Big Shot is even worse, at the same level doing 21 damage. Anyway, enough of that, on to:

Rogue:
I suspect this class should be called the Thief, but no matter. Anyway, first order of business is that, while I think all the weapon proficiencies are rather restrictive, the Rogue's is certainly odd, being limited entirely to throwing weapons.

As for the specializations, letting you roll twice but taking a penalty is... interesting. There are circumstances where that's not a good thing, like if you need to roll a 16 or higher (in which case you have no chance with the penalty), or even if you have to roll an 11 or higher (50% chance standard, 43.75% chance with the reroll and penalty). Of course, eventually it turns into a bonus and by 41st level you have a pretty good chnce of accomplishing whatever you set your mind to.

Sneak Attack seems misnamed. It doesn't apply to enemies who you're sneaking up on, it only provides a damage bonus to critical hits, which while nice isn't likely to happen often.

As what seems to be standard, the techniques run the gamut in usefulness. Greased Lightning is worthless if you have a weapon with a hit rate of 4 or higher, unless you really want to knock them prone. Doom of the Living, by contrast, is obscene - the highest hit rate of any projectile weapon is 8, so at level 16 you're doing a little more than twice the average damage of your normal strike - and that's if you have the best Rogue weapon. It only gets better from there. I find Slots interesting, though. We have two reasonable effects, and then an effect that causes all hits for the rest of the battle to be criticals, which is great news for the Rogue. Of course, there is one effect where, if the rest of the party doesn't already hate the Rogue for halving their HP and MP, they'll hate her for stealing all the XP. Talk about a troll move.

Samurai:
Well, here's something new. Much like the Fighter, it seems, though with better magic ability. This doesn't matter much for reasons I'm going to get into. So, we have Armor Specialization, which has the same problems I described earlier, and Weapon Specialization, which... is similar to the Fighter and Dragoon Greater Weapon Specialization, albeit with a slightly different benefit (additional hit rate as opposed to flat damage increase, which is actually going to end up being better in all circumstances), and a different penalty, which... is rather crippling for a while. -10 to Reflex in combat until level 10? That's quite punishing. But ultimately you'd still choose Weapon Specialist because its penalty doesn't matter with Octaslash, and Armor Specialist's benefits don't matter with Octaslash either.

Octaslash, probably the most powerful non-technique ability I've seen. 8 attacks against a single target? Jeez. Of course, the downside is pretty severe - anything that wants to hit your Reflex Defence will hit you barring natural 1s. But that's only a problem if there's anything left standing at that point. If you're fighting multiple enemies it might be an issue, but for single targets all you need to do is march up to the enemy, and use Octaslash. And if it survives that somehow, use it again next turn until dead. And with d10 hit dice, you'll probably survive until then. Oh yeah, Samurai have another ability, magic Break. Seems reasonable, but it doesn't say what action it takes, so I assume it's a free action, so you can use it alongside Octaslash. Just in case your target survives.

After this I wasn't sure I needed to take a look at the techniques, given they'd be moot, but I did so anyway. Warding Strike looks interesting, could be helpful. Gliding Strike is rather underpowered and only useful if you need to reposition yourself in a hurry. But Radiant Blow is really good. At, say, level 25 you'll end up rolling 36d8 for damage. And if they're level 50? 125d8. Compare that to a level 50 Weapon Specialist equipped with Ragnarok doing a normal attack: 20d8. And if half their Octaslash attacks hit, that's 80d8. I don't even want to calculate the damage range or average of those. No wonder you said this required twenty sets of dice.

Scholar:
Well, this is something new. Hmm... let's take a look. Low health, though amusingly not as low as the Mage classes. Decent MP and Magic Damage, and surprisingly not bad Ranged Damage either. And... oh wow. Any choice of weapon group? Wow. Of course they'll likely wind up picking Firearms or Projectiles due to higher Ranged Damage and being unsuited for the fury of melee.

Now, specializations. Both are interesting. Collaborater says that you can "manipulate the enemy into believing you are their allies" but the actual text says the enemies don't consider you their ally, so you may want to correct that statement. Anyway, being ignored for a little while by the enemy might come in handy. Especially if you stick to healing - it says if you harm or hinder the target or its allies, the effect ends, but it says nothing about helping the target's enemies. Influential Specialist is also interesting - the ability to end a fight when an enemy is below half health. Not sure how this works with animals or sapient beings that don't speak your language, but no matter.

Inspiring Word seems rather weak compared to the large numbers I've seen prior, and it doesn't even increase in power. Recall is similarly problematic, in the sense that either you can only use it in combat (odd given the vulnerability of rational thought in combat), or outside of combat you can roll twice as you please.

Now, Techniques. All interesting, but there's a few things I have to pick out. Feed Information gives one ally a +1 bonus and another ally a +2, which is odd. And at 11th, it says the bonus increases to +4... but which one? The +1, the +2, or both? Also, Weaken Resolve gives the target a chance to make a "Wisdom saving throw" to shake off the effect. Leaving aside that they've already had their Will Defence bypassed, what is a Wisdom saving throw? Later on you say a saving throw is just a d20 with no modifiers except when stated otherwise, so I'm not sure what this means. Do they add their WIS modifier to the roll?

White Mage:
I kinda covered this just a little back up in Black Mage, so...

Final Notes:
As I read through this, I started to see something of the big number obsession here. As far as HP and damage goes it's not neccessarily a bad thing... until you start having to roll that much damage. Honestly, the only dice that are really meant to be rolled in large numbers are d6s, and those actually are available in bulk. Shadowrun is the only RPG system I know of that habitually uses lots of D6s, and even then not for damage. I'm not sure what to say here, exactly. Maybe scale down the damage a little? Not quite sure now, but it should be doable. Where big numbers really do harm, however, is when you're rolling only a d20. A -10 penalty, such that I've seen more than once, is quite a damn lot. It's enough to take 50% away from a chance to hit. As in, expressed in decimals, .5 is taken away. You can go from a 75% chance to hit to 25%. Where once you could hit on a 10 or higher, you'd now need a natural 20. Bonuses are generally pretty small in D&D 3.5, and for good reason, for each point takes or adds 5% to the odds of success.

Another thing that concerns me is the general lack of combat options. This tends to be a problem in D&D, too, but it's also a problem here. Most pressing, however, is that I get the sense that combat in mid-to-late levels will consist entirely of techniques, with the occational Barrage, Ariel Lunge, and OCTASLASH. As said this is still a problem with D&D - I played a straight Fighter and basically never did anything but full attacks, and this doesn't take into account Material, disadvantageous though it may be for some classes to use it. Still...

Another concern I have, though, is the general lack of customizability. Each Rogue, for instance, is probably going to be pretty similar to every other Rogue you could make. Different races, different techniques, of course, but still very similar playstyles. I mean, really similar. Barring Materia choices, they may as well be the same character.

And that leads me to my final concern. Each class is, essentially, a clone of a similar character in FF7. The specializations are new, but the limit breaks are the same and even the weapon choices - each class is encouraged to use only a single specific weapon type, and only the ones available to the player characters in FF7. Evidently, no one uses axes, maces, or bows on the Planet... and that leads to a general conclusion that, while you want an FF7 d20 system, you seem content to only give the players the options that are presented in FF7, and nothing more. I mean, what if I'm a Fighter or a Rogue and want to, say, wield Reno's baton? Or anything other than a two-handed sword and boomerang projectiles, respectively? I think there's a lot that the world would logically have in it that you could add to diversify things.

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

First of all, i thank you heavily for the feedback you have made so far. i really do appreciate it.

Some of your points seem to make sense, and i have now changed. The human race traits are now changed and i have omitted the reference about shurikens and tridents making certain damage. i also corrected the Melee Strike typo in the skill chapter. you are right, it should state STR and not DEX.

Calculating your Ref Defence: If a character is wearing armour, they are forced to apply only their armour bonus to Reflex and not apply one-half their level, which is why Armour Specialisation allows you to apply one OR the other when wearing armour, whichever is greater. for example, a non-armoured character's ref def = 10 + one-half level (RD) + Dex modifier + Class bonus. an armoured character's ref def = 10 + armour bonus + Dex modifier + class bonus. if the character's armour only provides a +2 bonus to Ref, you only apply +2 to Ref regardless of what level you are, but Armour Specialisation allows you to apply either one whichever provides the better bonus to Ref Def.

The combining of BLK Mage and WHT Mage. In my original draft of the game, i originally had a single Mage class with Focus and Channel Magic but after several comments and conversations i had with my FB group members, we all agreed that there should be two distinctive mage classes. Any help on making them more distinctive will be greatly appreciated. I have already swapped over Clear Tranquil from BM with Fury Brand from WM.

Characters are restricted to being proficient with one weapon group at 1st level yes, but there is a feat that allows you to gain additional weapon proficiencies.

This isn't a D&D game. although it may have elements from 4e, it is its own system in its own right. Just thought i put that out there as you seem to be comparing it to D&D a lot.

Skill points i can easily scale down, that isn't a problem. what would you suggest they be changed too for each class specifically?

i have changed the Dragoon's Greater Weapon Specialisation for the Samurai's Weapon Specialisation. Speaking of Samurai, you said that Magic Break doesn't state what type of action it requires. As you will find out in the Skills chapter, making a skill check (which is what you are doing with Magic Break) requires a standard action.

Considering that in Advent Children, the characters were all doing things superhumanly that pretty much defied all laws of physics, i think how Aerial Lunge works is pretty awesome :)

Octaslah on the other hand, i do agree that i may have gone OTT with it lol. Any help in scaling it down would be appreciated.

Fighters are traditional tanks, which is why i only gave them a +1 to Ref and Fort. They would have enough hp to withstand plenty of damage. Magic on the other hand is variable depending on class and abilities so i gave them a +2 bonus to Magic Defence.

I will finish reading through more of your feedback but these were what struck out at me initially. once again i appreciate all the help you are giving as i do want this game to improve.

Many Regards

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

@Dusk Raven: Ok, i will continue down your list and reply with the best of my knowledge as i am away from my computer at the moment.

I have made three firearm weapons Large-size as so the effects of Greater Weapon Specialist more useful for the ranger. also, i altered the ranger's Dual Weapon Specialist so that it reads "if your secondary weapon misses by 5 or less".

I also included a bit of wording in the Saving Throws section of Chapter 10 to say that some saving throws can be altered by ability modifiers and that they would be noted as Wisdom saving throw for example.

Also, although the fighter doesnt have Spellcasting as a class skill, if he multiclasses into WM or BM, the Spellcasting skill becomes a class skill for that character. just a heads up.

If an ability or technique says "you rush towards a target" it does mean that you move to an adjacent square and then move back to your original square. think of it like in the original FF7 turn-base system when a character rushes up to a target, does his or her attack and then goes back to its original position.

The Monk's Boost ability i have changed it so that the monk gains additional temp hp at higher levels instead of a large penalty to Melee Strike checks. the penalty caps a -5.

I originally called the Ranger class "Gunner" but thought that Ranger sounded better lol. Nothing to do with D&D though.

With ranged combat, you only provoke an AoO if there is an enemy target adjacent to you or within its reach. other than that, you are fine, hence the additional AoO penalty of Greater Weapon Specialist. as noted above, three firearms are now Large-size and require two hands to use.

I have improved devastating shot so that the damage equals your weapon damage + one-half your level, which changes to your full level at 21st level.

I will re-word Sneak attack so that it is used specifically for stealth actions and sneaking up on targets.

The samurai's Radiant Blow technique i have now changed so that it is flat damage instead of a multiple based on level. 1d10 + one-half your level, and the damage increases by +1 die at 11th, 21st, 31st, and 41st level.

For Octaslash, i have decided to let the samurai make up to two melee attacks at first level and by 43rd level he can make up to eight melee attacks, so that he isnt making 8 attacks straight off the bat.

Gliding Strike is meant to be a "now you see me (stab) now you don't" sort of ability.

As for Scholar i will go through its techniques and class features and make any necessary changes.

I think that covers nearly all your points, be it over two posts but i had to sleep in between lol. Please carry on providing feedback as i do want to improve the game and once again i thank you for taking the time in noticing the problems so far.

Many regards

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

Just so everyone knows, I have updated the main post so that it reads VERSION 2.5.

Anymore feedback is greatly appreciated.

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

SHINRA'S LOCKER ACCESSORY BOOK NOW PUBLISHED!!! (http://www.finalfantasyviid20roleplayinggame.yolasite.com/)

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

Sorry for the long absence guys, been very busy. Is there any feedback on the system so far?

[Salbazier]

All links are dead. Are there no other archive?

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

Thank you for your response Salbazier. The "My Official Website" link in my signature will take you to where both version 1 and version 2 of the game is ready for download.