Examples of an Impactful Plot?

[Grinner]

I'm sitting here trying to remember all the things I've read, played, or seen that left me a bit dazed with awe, and I'm pretty much drawing a blank.

Serial Experiments Lain and Puella Magi Madoka Magica both had good moments, particularly episode 10 of the latter, but I get a distinct impression that most of their fame comes from their complexity rather than their ingenuity.

Steins;Gate...I don't think I ever finished that, actually...

I've stalled out at the third book of the Song of Ice and Fire series, but I remember the Game of Thrones matched what I'm looking for. It's been a while since I last read it, though, so I could be misremembering things.

Anyone care to jog my memory?

[warty goblin]

If you like A Game of Thrones, it may be worth checking out some of Martin's earlier stuff. I maintain that Fevre Dream is still the best thing he's written; and there was certainly a point about halfway through where I realized I would be spending the rest of my day finishing the book, everything else be damned. It did not disappoint. Dying of the Light is a little less knock-you-flat I think, but there is some extremely good and extremely interesting stuff in there nonetheless. If you're in for short stories, Meathouse Man is probably the single most viscerally upsetting twenty-odd pages I've ever read, although a lot of people also swear by Sandkings.

Moving on, Dan Simmons' Hyperion and Fall of Hyperion collectively deliver one hell of a story with one of the best endings I've encountered. Highly recommended, and incidentally fairly high up my reread list.

[huttj509]

I found Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn trilogy decent with the sort of twists that cast the entire stuff that you just read in a new light. Doesn't change the events, but suddenly you see new places the shadows fell, so to speak.

Do you mean as in the sheer concept, or the execution of it?

[Haruki-kun]

Since you mentioned several anime, my favorite anime is Higurashi no Naku Koro ni, and I always thought it had a very impactful plot. However, not everyone has agreed with me on this.

Your Mileage May Vary.

[Grinner]

If you're in for short stories, Meathouse Man is probably the single most viscerally upsetting twenty-odd pages I've ever read, although a lot of people also swear by Sandkings.

Oh hey, that reminds me of Transmit, a short story by Greg Stolze. I don't remember if it gave that same sense of profundity I'm looking for, but it had quite a twist.

Anyway, those sound like good suggestions.


Do you mean as in the sheer concept, or the execution of it?

More execution, really. I've had this idea for a videogame, but I'm not sure how to go about presenting the plot. To that end, I'm trying to remember all the things I've ever seen that, as worty_goblin put it, knocked me flat.

Any suggestions I pick up along the way are welcome too. :smallsmile:


*snip*

I'm not looking specifically for anime, but I couldn't remember anything else of particular significance. :smalltongue:

[BeerMug Paladin]

I'm not sure the same things that create an impactful story experience in literature will really work for a game. Mostly because the player's connection to the story is going to be rather unevenly paced and come in slow drips. And in the meantime the narrative will be informed by the gameplay interaction of what the player is actually doing within the context of the world. Which tends to be murder, procrastination and thievery.

I think probably most plots end up being really impactful if the characters are likable. That's probably goal number one.

After that, probably having the plot be something either personal or important that brings real changes to the setting.

[MLai]

If you want tips on how to (and how not to) execute plot in video games, you should watch the relevant vids on Extra Credits. Google "extra credits game video".

[Terraoblivion]

If a plot is stunningly new to you, it's a sign you haven't experienced enough fiction. It's the execution and themes that decides whether something has impact or not. Both in terms of the more detailed sequence of events and in terms of sheer wordsmithing/cinematography/whatever skill is used for the medium in question. Basically, storytelling isn't about finding the new plot that will sweep everyone away with its novelty, it's about figuring out what you want to say and how to say it. That can mean combining elements in unusual ways, but it can also just mean getting it just right.

Puella Magi Madoka Magica is a perfect example of this. It does combine two things that have rarely been, but doesn't do anything truly novel with either. Nor does it reveal profound truths to an audience who has never had to face them before, the themes are well-worn in genre fiction and the work of the script. What it did was time every little thing perfectly, look amazing and know exactly what plot beats to hit and how much time to give each of them. It was neither about profundity nor novelty. For that matter, it wasn't really a terribly complex or complexly told story. Certainly nothing like all the turns and often opaque storytelling of Serial Experiment Lain.

[Grinner]

I'm not sure the same things that create an impactful story experience in literature will really work for a game. Mostly because the player's connection to the story is going to be rather unevenly paced and come in slow drips. And in the meantime the narrative will be informed by the gameplay interaction of what the player is actually doing within the context of the world. Which tends to be murder, procrastination and thievery.
I have a fairly good idea of what the plot's endgame is. Also, I read an odd book a month or two ago entitled "The Basics of Game Design". I wouldn't recommend buying it as most of the information is just a rehash of cliches across many videogame genres, but I found the chapter on story structure fairly insightful.

The point here is that I have an idea what of the more abstract elements of a good plot are. I get that the strength of videogames lie in their interactivity, so the game should interact with the player as much as the player does with it. The problem is that the lower level techniques aren't quite so apparent to me. Things like making likeable characters, for instance.

Basically, storytelling isn't about finding the new plot that will sweep everyone away with its novelty, it's about figuring out what you want to say and how to say it. That can mean combining elements in unusual ways, but it can also just mean getting it just right.
Certainly, but that's just the trick isn't it. Methods which might seem painfully obvious to a skilled storyteller are far less apparent to the untrained ear.

And yeah, coming up with filler while you set up the big finale also seems a bit tricky. I know where I want to go, I'm just not sure how to get there.

For that matter, it wasn't really a terribly complex or complexly told story.
Not for the greater portion of the series, no, but those last few episodes certainly left me puzzled.

[BeerMug Paladin]

Hah, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one with an idea for a game rattling around in my head.


I have a fairly good idea of what the plot's endgame is. Also, I read an odd book a month or two ago entitled "The Basics of Game Design". I wouldn't recommend buying it as most of the information is just a rehash of cliches across many videogame genres, but I found the chapter on story structure fairly insightful.

The point here is that I have an idea what of the more abstract elements of a good plot are. I get that the strength of videogames lie in their interactivity, so the game should interact with the player as much as the player does with it. The problem is that the lower level techniques aren't quite so apparent to me. Things like making likeable characters, for instance.

Certainly, but that's just the trick isn't it. Methods which might seem painfully obvious to a skilled storyteller are far less apparent to the untrained ear.

And yeah, coming up with filler while you set up the big finale also seems a bit tricky. I know where I want to go, I'm just not sure how to get there.
Have you considered working with a writer or getting an outline in place of what you want and seeing what someone else makes of it?

Simply bouncing ideas off of people and saying what you want could go for a lot. If only that collecting your thoughts into a cohesive form, and then formalizing them can do a lot to sharpen your thinking process.

I'd recommend against filler. I mean, there's nothing wrong with it in a game, as gameplay itself is the most important part of a game. But if you're interested in artsy fartsy gamey stuff, try to avoid filler if you can.

I'd say if a character is supposed to be likable, give them a trait you admire and allow them the chance to show it off.

[Kitten Champion]

Well, it's hard to say what makes an impactful plot. In the last week I watched Seven Samurai, Ran, and High Noon -- all of which kept my interest the whole way through and were emotionally gratifying experiences.

Seven Samurai is just a bunch of warriors coming to the defence of a poor farming village to save it from an army of bandits, there are some minor subplots and unexpected events along the way but for the most part it's exactly that for 3 and half hours. It works because it succeeded in giving the villagers pathos, there's a genuine reason for every scene to be there and not just the director's vanity, and it really brought me with it as it went along. You saw the harsh realities of their existence as farming peasants, their desperation, their need. You saw them collect unlikely allies that they themselves were afraid of. You saw them prepare for battle in the literal tactical and greater emotional sense. You then watched them fight for their lives like mice cornered by cats, graceless striking back with tooth and nail. It never felt like just another requisite third act action scene every modern modern movie seems to have but something I as the viewer felt deeply engaged in. In fact, despite the general romanticized view of violence prevalent in samurai movies and the seemingly heroic premise, the actual big battle is bleak and inglorious -- not stylized ballet with swords -- which makes it all the more effective as you realize the movie isn't about the titular samurai, it's about the peasants.

Ran, if you don't know, is Kurosawa's re-imagining of King Lear as a Japanese period drama. What's truly interesting is where it differs from the play, which needless to say is fairly effective source material. The film played up the foolishness and nihilism of war, as on every level we see this kingdom destroyed. The plot was like watching someone topple a building by destroying one support beam then slowly moving on to the next, and the next. Hidetora, who is Lear, was a rather ruthless warlord in this version that was blind to all the harm he created during his conquest of the kingdom he created and is now forced to face the myriad consequences of this at every turn. That once he relinquished the power to instill others with the fear he had ruled with he wasn't left with anything, and everyone else was so caught up in power or revenge they too were equally blind as the supports fell one after another.

High Noon has an incredibly simple plot and is something of a reverse of Seven Samurai, where a lone lawman awaits a train carrying his mortal enemy (amusingly for me, named Frank Miller) that will in all likelihood kill him -- starting about five minutes after he had just gotten married. The film has the rather unique approach of something like the much more recent television series 24 where the events leading to the final confrontation are followed pretty much in real time so the tension just keeps building up steam like the oncoming train. The horror of it is watching him walk through the village going from place to place requesting assistance... and receiving none. At every point you think surely someone must come to his aid and gradually as you see it unfold you realize that no, they're going to leave him to die. It's a plot that could only be effective with a ticking clock in the background, and seeing the depths of his hopelessness -- because as a genre convention we naturally assume the whitehat will win and that fighting against big odds doesn't really mean anything, but with this each scene brings it home how so obviously outmatched he is. When he does win in the end it feels miraculous rather than obvious and that his first action afterwards is throwing his badge to the ground and leaving is an utterly perfect ending.

Anyways, it's been a fun week.

[Brewdude]

Impactful plot.

Well, for the Song of Fire and Ice, it's all about the "that did NOT just happen" moments that left me dazed.

For the most part in other work, it's twists that you don't see a mile away. Very rarely is it just an awesome setting. Sometimes though, it's just the method of storytelling.

Memento (movie) is an example of the last. It's the "backwards movie" that I challenge you to not have a burning need to watch twice.
Portal 2 (computer game) had both a good twist and an awesome finale that left me gobsmacked. It ended the first act right about at the same point in the game, in terms of time played, that the finale to the original Portal occurred, and then started a second act that made you realize you were less than halfway through. Plotwise, everything in the second act was gold, though I did end up finding the game play a bit more tiresome.
From the New World (anime) starts out like a creepy school story, but by the end makes you wonder about who you were rooting for.
Fight Club (movie) came at a time in my life to make me rethink my world a bit.
Ur-Quan Masters HD (old computer game, FREE, public sourced, go download it now! (http://urquanmastershd.com/) And post a blind "let's play" on youtube), while the game play itself is fairly awful, the plot and the races you meet and quests you have to deal with are utterly superior.
Grim Fandango (old computer game) is built on doing crazy things to get to the next part.
M Night Shamalamadingdong movies are basically built on trying to achieve this, but as he got known for it, he just became a sad trope.

Net Hack (ancient ascii text based roguelike) got it's reputation because the developers would make all the items interact with one another. The classic example was that you could put on gloves and wield the corpse of cockatrice and turn monsters into stone statues when you hit them during an attack, on which you could then use a pick axe to turn into rocks, yielding a gem, if it was the right type of monster. Of course, if you were overburdened and went down the stairs you tripped and fell, and if the cockatrice was in your inventory, had a chance to touch it and save vs turning to stone yourself (better drink that acid, quick! OUCH).

[BWR]

If you are specifically interested in video games and how they handle plot I can suggest Planescape: Torment. It has a great story, memorable characters and wonderful worlds to explore.