City: Weapon Law enforcement on spellcasters

[TheJoker116]

I'm currently working on a city, making a law codex and one of the articles is about carrying weapons. Now, non-militia members can carry weapons but must knot them to their scabbards so they can't draw them easily (giving time for a militia member to intervene more easily).

For this city, I want to put magic usage (Divine or Arcanic) in the same article as conventional weapons. Thing is, the only way I've found to prevent magic abuse would be an anti-magic field ... which would prevent the few spellcasters that are part of the militia from using their powers to enforce law.

Anybody got suggestions? I thought that any spellcaster should keep their components pouch in their backpack but the only mages with backpack would be travelers. XD

[Eldan]

Handcuffs, gags and blindfolds work on lower level mages. On higher level mages, I recommend asking nicely.

[Dr.Bakuga]

Technically, Hallow/Unhallow with imbued Silence can annoy any spellcaster without Silent Spell.

Of course, it would make communication difficult...

[TheJoker116]

These are a bit too drastic, since they would most fit in a scenario where the spellcaster is already an offender. I need something that would act like the knot, which would prevent a fighter from drawing his weapon unless he uses a full-round action to untie the knot and draw his weapon.

Maybe have every spellcaster declare their status to the militia? Though that wouldn't stop a mischievous sorcerer from setting fire to the local tavern for whatever reasons. XD

[Taveena]

Ban spellbooks containing spells that deal hit point or ability damage? I mean, sure, you haven't locked out the real problems, but a Wizard casting Sleep is arguably less harmful than punching someone (as long as it's not followed with a coup de grace).

[weckar]

A Sorcerer with Eschew materials will get around any physical obstacle you can pose.

[Xerlith]

That's not really a solution.

How high-magic is it? You may want to do something like a city-wide aura (maybe generated by strategically placed magic items) that hampers and disallows spells cast by people who do not possess an appropriate militia badge.
I mean, technically, a wondrous item can do anything, so, say, an item that uses Antimagic Field, Silence and the Selective Spell feat as requirements... You're the DM, you can make a custom item, come on.

That'd actually give some fun plot hooks.

[Eldan]

That's not really a solution.

How high-magic is it? You may want to do something like a city-wide aura (maybe generated by strategically placed magic items) that hampers and disallows spells cast by people who do not possess an appropriate militia badge.
I mean, technically, a wondrous item can do anything, so, say, an item that uses Antimagic Field, Silence and the Selective Spell feat as requirements... You're the DM, you can make a custom item, come on.

That'd actually give some fun plot hooks.

As a player, I woudl immediately try to steal that and a few militia badges, then drag it into the nearest dungeon.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

In Role,aster, there were rules I was a fan of, but it may not work in D&D. If your average murderhobo were to walk the street weapons and armor out, he would quickly be accosted by guards: "Where's the war at?" they would say. Spellcasters weren't really a problem, unless they started casting spells. Of course, everyone mistrusts spellcasters, so he might have trouble actually interacting with people.

[Xerlith]

As a player, I woudl immediately try to steal that and a few militia badges, then drag it into the nearest dungeon.

See? A plot hook right off the bat.

[Curmudgeon]

I think the best bet is banning the possession of spell component pouches, or open display of holy symbols, inside city limits. Spells can still be cast, but material components will be slower to procure.

[TheJoker116]

Ban spellbooks containing spells that deal hit point or ability damage? I mean, sure, you haven't locked out the real problems, but a Wizard casting Sleep is arguably less harmful than punching someone (as long as it's not followed with a coup de grace).

That would be a start, more work for the local militia but that could work.

Honestly, I didn't think about the magic much when creating my city. the first idea I got is a city where gold and commerce rule.


That's not really a solution.

How high-magic is it? You may want to do something like a city-wide aura (maybe generated by strategically placed magic items) that hampers and disallows spells cast by people who do not possess an appropriate militia badge.
I mean, technically, a wondrous item can do anything, so, say, an item that uses Antimagic Field, Silence and the Selective Spell feat as requirements... You're the DM, you can make a custom item, come on.

That'd actually give some fun plot hooks.

THAT ... is a great idea. The way I see the city, the ruling noble family and the local guild can easily afford this kind of thing. Maybe I could go with that kind of system, it would let spellcasters use their magic but only level 2 or level 3 spells that can't cause serious trouble. thanks for the tips. :)


I think the best bet is banning the possession of spell component pouches, or open display of holy symbols, inside city limits. Spells can still be cast, but material components will be slower to procure.

That could be a good alternative. Thing is, there's a lot of commerce in this city and components are sold for alchemy.

[Pyon]

All spell casters have to have different licenses. An apprentice or beginning mage has a level 1 license, and bit stronger mage has a level 2 license, and so on so forth. If a harmful spell is cast, the law enforcement can detect what level of magic that was, what license it falls under, and who were the people present or in the area that could have cast it. Then the rest is just detective work. Any travelers going into the city have to register their level of spell casting. Casting magic outside your license or without a valid reason is as much of a crime as using it to harm others.

I think you should work more on punishing people who use magic, rather than preventing them. That's how it happens in the real world most of the time anyways.

[avr]

The way I'd do it would be to have devices which detect and record magic use on the city streets. Maybe attached to streetlights or something.

Detect Magic is a lot lower level than Antimagic Field + Selective Spell so you can imagine them covering a city without investing billions of gold pieces and several archmage-years of work.

The consequences will be delayed - more or less like real law.

Edit: I should be clear, this is still incredibly expensive, probably a few million gp for a city of about a square mile. Just it's 3 or so orders of magnitude less than trying to blanket a city's public areas in metamagiced antimagic fields.

[TheJoker116]

All spell casters have to have different licenses. An apprentice or beginning mage has a level 1 license, and bit stronger mage has a level 2 license, and so on so forth. If a harmful spell is cast, the law enforcement can detect what level of magic that was, what license it falls under, and who were the people present or in the area that could have cast it. Then the rest is just detective work. Any travelers going into the city have to register their level of spell casting. Casting magic outside your license or without a valid reason is as much of a crime as using it to harm others.

I think you should work more on punishing people who use magic, rather than preventing them. That's how it happens in the real world most of the time anyways.

Brilliant! And that would fit with the economics mentality of the city since selling licenses to adventurers would fill the city's coffers.


The way I'd do it would be to have devices which detect and record magic use on the city streets. Maybe attached to streetlights or something.

Detect Magic is a lot lower level than Antimagic Field + Selective Spell so you can imagine them covering a city without investing billions of gold pieces and several archmage-years of work.

The consequences will be delayed - more or less like real law.

I'd couple this with the above idea. Once the level of the spell is detected, it would reduce the number of suspects the authority would have to find.

In fact, I think I'd have a particular guild manage magic. The commerce guild already have a military branch (they manage and fund their own militia), magic being a complex and dangerous domain, the city would need specialists for that, maybe even a magic militia.

[sleepyphoenixx]

A Mythal can be used to block spells. All spells, only certain spells, spells of certain schools/descriptors, only for people of certain races, only for people who aren't attuned or aren't carrying a token... you can pretty much build it to match your needs.
The Mythal seed is in LEoF with the example ward of Silverymoon (which is also mentioned in detail in Silver Marches iirc).

[Callin]

How about a custom spell that all spellcasters have to allow upon them just like mundanes need for weapons. It disrupts their tie to magic and it takes a whatever action to reconnect with your tie and it is very obvious you are doing it as you start to GLOW whatever color the city deigns.

[TheJoker116]

I like the idea of the mythal. So far, I've written about a guild that manages spellcasters, they have a Mythal that makes it impossible to use anything but Abjuration if one does not possess a Legion badge. Also, the guild can deliver licenses of varying levels for a fee. To top it all, there are magic symbols scattered all over town that detects and records magic usage.

Thanks for all those ideas, guys, really appreciate it! :)

[Lightlawbliss]

I like the idea of the mythal. So far, I've written about a guild that manages spellcasters, they have a Mythal that makes it impossible to use anything but Abjuration if one does not possess a Legion badge. Also, the guild can deliver licenses of varying levels for a fee. To top it all, there are magic symbols scattered all over town that detects and records magic usage.

Thanks for all those ideas, guys, really appreciate it! :)

It may be wise to allow organizations such as temples or key households to have some level of exception, for appropriate compensation of course, so they could perform their duties and train their staff.

Also, Abjuration includes things like explosive runes, break enchantment, anti-magic field, prismatic wall, and Disjunction. Something to consider. I would say the spells over a certain level idea would take care of most of the problems

[ILM]

Honestly, if all the mundanes have to do is tie a knot to make it harder to draw a weapon, I don't see why spellcasters would get a mythal. I mean, that knot serves no purpose. You can rip it off with a Strength check, undo it with a couple actions, cut it with a hidden blade, draw a hidden blade, fake the knot so that it doesn't actually hamper you, loosen it discreetly before violence, punch a guy in the face without a weapon, and so on. There's about a million ways to bypass it even for low-level characters, so it's really more a gesture of good faith and adherence to local customs than some absolute violence-stopper. To me the equivalent for casters would be to put a similar knot around the top of their component pouch or maybe wrap their holy symbol in a piece of fabric - not to cook up an epic-level mythal of incredible power with DM-fiat custom badges...

[TheJoker116]

It may be wise to allow organizations such as temples or key households to have some level of exception, for appropriate compensation of course, so they could perform their duties and train their staff.

Also, Abjuration includes things like explosive runes, break enchantment, anti-magic field, prismatic wall, and Disjunction. Something to consider. I would say the spells over a certain level idea would take care of most of the problems

There will be exceptions, of course but organizations that can justify these exceptions (and cough up some dough) can discuss with the guilds and/or the ruling noble family. :)

I'm not too worried about the spells. Most dangerous spells are way too high to be of concern (Prismatic Wall) and Antimagic Field would just be plain useless (I can't cast spells, neither can you and I got three soldiers with me. your call, criminal scum!).

Now, there's Explosive Runes. In the law codex, I specified any and all offensive spell are prohibited so, can't prevent someone from blowing someone else's face off but at least they know they can get in trouble for it.


Honestly, if all the mundanes have to do is tie a knot to make it harder to draw a weapon, I don't see why spellcasters would get a mythal. I mean, that knot serves no purpose. You can rip it off with a Strength check, undo it with a couple actions, cut it with a hidden blade, draw a hidden blade, fake the knot so that it doesn't actually hamper you, loosen it discreetly before violence, punch a guy in the face without a weapon, and so on. There's about a million ways to bypass it even for low-level characters, so it's really more a gesture of good faith and adherence to local customs than some absolute violence-stopper. To me the equivalent for casters would be to put a similar knot around the top of their component pouch or maybe wrap their holy symbol in a piece of fabric - not to cook up an epic-level mythal of incredible power with DM-fiat custom badges...

Good point but the way I see it, magic is a much more dangerous thing and a simple spell is harder to comprehend and control than a conventional weapon, to the common folk, at least. I think jumping a guy who's taking his turn to rip off or untie the knot would be easier than trying the same on a mage that may have taken some metamagic feats. Of course, there's always a way to bypass and when enough people have done it, they just might prohibit weapons altogether. :)

Anyway, I don't mean it's a complete violence stopper. Of course you can still punch someone ... but I wouldn't try it when a guard is right beside me wearing armor and capable of drawing his weapon faster than I can draw mine. XD

[nimmo0110]

Honestly, if all the mundanes have to do is tie a knot to make it harder to draw a weapon, I don't see why spellcasters would get a mythal. I mean, that knot serves no purpose. You can rip it off with a Strength check, undo it with a couple actions, cut it with a hidden blade, draw a hidden blade, fake the knot so that it doesn't actually hamper you, loosen it discreetly before violence, punch a guy in the face without a weapon, and so on. There's about a million ways to bypass it even for low-level characters, so it's really more a gesture of good faith and adherence to local customs than some absolute violence-stopper. To me the equivalent for casters would be to put a similar knot around the top of their component pouch or maybe wrap their holy symbol in a piece of fabric - not to cook up an epic-level mythal of incredible power with DM-fiat custom badges...

EDIT: Most of this was said in the post before this one, posted while i was writing this.

True but a spellcaster can do a lot more damage then a fighter in a shorter amount of time. A fighter could stab 2 maybe 3 people but a mage could fire ball a crowded street and hurt a good number of people.

[Lightlawbliss]

Honestly, if all the mundanes have to do is tie a knot to make it harder to draw a weapon, I don't see why spellcasters would get a mythal. I mean, that knot serves no purpose. You can rip it off with a Strength check, undo it with a couple actions, cut it with a hidden blade, draw a hidden blade, fake the knot so that it doesn't actually hamper you, loosen it discreetly before violence, punch a guy in the face without a weapon, and so on. There's about a million ways to bypass it even for low-level characters, so it's really more a gesture of good faith and adherence to local customs than some absolute violence-stopper. To me the equivalent for casters would be to put a similar knot around the top of their component pouch or maybe wrap their holy symbol in a piece of fabric - not to cook up an epic-level mythal of incredible power with DM-fiat custom badges...

Oh look, you can pull out a longsword in 6 seconds. That totally justifies letting people run around essentially unrestricted with 50 cal rifles and RPGs.

[Exegesis]

The city's magical wifi is blocked. To cast at all you need to have a special token, maybe a dog tag or a magically resizing band that can be worn as a ring or bracelet or fitted onto a wand or staff. Getting one that lets you cast cantrips, even 1st level spells, is easy--just buy it. From there it gets harder. Unfortunately, for everyone's safety, the four "aggressive" schools--evocation, necromancy, enchantment, and conjuration--are entirely restricted to the police.

Or, remove the ability to override the restrictions at all, but give each of the city's districts different restrictions.

If the law had the ability to override these rules, which it would, then in a modern city, you could for example have harsh limitations on magic in poor areas, with the aim of preventing crime but oppressive side effects.


Another possibility. Every spell cast in the city is immediately counterspelled by the looming construct at its core, or a large disco ball floating in the sky or something. But it can't counter any spell with expensive material components.

[Xelbiuj]

Harsh punishments for illegal spell casting.

Having actual methods of blocking it seems, less magical. Becomes more of a science.
STEMND . . .
Science. Technology. Engineering. Math. Necromancy. Divination . . . ugh.

Maybe take their wands, staves, spell books, reagents. No reason to be comprehensive about it.

[Arc_knight25]

DM Fiat is a thing no?

You can do whatever you want.

I suggest like others have is having a Anti-Magic field and needing a token or such to cast spells. The more you work with law Enforcement the easier it is to get tokens that allow you to cast Higher level spells. Or the opposite direction and have the Theives guild get you tokens, or Similair magical devices that can bypass the AMF.

Another option is to allow a Spellcraft or Arcane(Magic/Relgion/Nature) to allow the caster to cast spells within town. They would need to take some time to "attune" themselves to the magic within the town and you would have set DC's for each level of spell. While Law enforcement are free to cast spells as the please.

Definitely and interesting idea for a town/city/Metropolis to strive for.

[Exegesis]

Having actual methods of blocking it seems, less magical. Becomes more of a science.


"[Any logical action] seems less magical. Becomes more of a science."
Presumably magic is part of the way the world works, right?

[ILM]

Good point but the way I see it, magic is a much more dangerous thing and a simple spell is harder to comprehend and control than a conventional weapon, to the common folk, at least. I think jumping a guy who's taking his turn to rip off or untie the knot would be easier than trying the same on a mage that may have taken some metamagic feats. Of course, there's always a way to bypass and when enough people have done it, they just might prohibit weapons altogether. :)

Anyway, I don't mean it's a complete violence stopper. Of course you can still punch someone ... but I wouldn't try it when a guard is right beside me wearing armor and capable of drawing his weapon faster than I can draw mine. XD
That's only true if you assume that guards are everywhere at the same time, but they wouldn't be. Plus, how do you deal with ranged weapons, or weapons that otherwise don't go in a scabbard?

Plus, that point of view also assumes that you accept the trope by which wizards are infinitely more powerful than equivalent-level fighters. That may be true in certain games, especially Tippy-esque no-holds-barred games where 32 Intelligence paranoid wizards get access to everything by RAW, but that discrepancy just reinforces the message that beatsticks aren't worth anything (which is fine, unless you have players who chose to play beatsticks).

The fact is that a high-level martial character can lay an immense quantity of hurt on a standard city made of wood, stone and commoners, and that while he may be less efficient than an optimized wizard blowing all his spell slots on destruction, it's largely academic after the first few blocks he's leveled. Knot or not (haha), the city guard isn't going to stop high-level beatsticks, unless for some reason your city guard is all made of flying level 16 trippers or something.

On the other-hand, characters of a level so low that a) a knot will significantly impair them, and b) for whom the guard is an actual threat, do not need long-forgotten magical artifacts to be stopped, because honestly a low-level wizard can't deal all that much hurt before tapping out (or being tackled and slapped around). I mean, you're level 7 and specialized with a solid intelligence bonus: yay, that's like 2/3 Black Tentacles and 3/4 Fireballs until a house cat's a threat to you again. Maybe you'll start a big fire, but that's nothing a gang of CR 0 street urchins with a box of matches can't do. If that threatens the life of your metropolis, you've got other problems.

Sure, everybody here plays level 20 shadowcraft mages and dragonborn kobolds, but in your setting, the average low-ish level wizard isn't any more a threat to the safety of a city than equal-level martial characters, and therefore doesn't warrant the kind of completely overkill special treatment you're proposing. Using a mythal makes sense when you absolutely don't want near-epic casters to wreck your metropolis, but that's not even in the same league as everyday keep-the-peace measures like tying ribbons.


edit: a more proportionate system, I think, would be to add spellcasters to your mix of guards (level 1 battle sorcerers would be fine) and have some important guy permanency Detect Magic on them. It's relatively cheapo (Rings of Spellbattle are another option, but more expensive) and now you have capable watchdogs all over the place. Whenever they catch someone doing something they shouldn't, they simply message the guard's HQ, who immediately sends a team of capable badasses to lay down the law (one that includes at least one teleportation-capable caster). Then again, it would also work for mundane violence, so it'd kind of obviate the need for knots in the first place.

[Gemini476]

"[Any logical action] seems less magical. Becomes more of a science."
Presumably magic is part of the way the world works, right?

Especially in D&D 3E - there are settings where magic is more strange or temperamental and thus harder to pin down, but since 3E went so far in setting up how everything works that magic is much more understandable, tangible, formulated, defined and downright scientific. Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.


You could block most magic by binding hands and gagging mouths. Or just blindfolding, since that shuts down line of sight pretty well. Now, if you don't want magic-users to be constantly oppressed and treated like criminals? Antimagic shackles might work, I suppose, since you could just have them assigned to all non-approved casters. Or have magic be banned for the public and restricted to the registered members of the local mage's guild or what-have-you. Magic is really rare if you run it by the book so that would be somewhat fitting.

Then again, you could also just have the restrictions apply to travellers or something. I dunno. Restricting weapons gets pretty complicated - if a butcher decides to murder a man, is he going to use a sword or his completely legal tools of the trade? If a farmer decides to rise in rebellion against the taxmen, his scythe and pitchfork stop looking like tools and start looking like polearms.

[TheJoker116]

Only other option I have beside the knot would be confiscation ... which means each day, guards have to confiscate everyone's weapon, pat them down to find hidden weapons, keep them somewhere safe, fill out paperwork and try to find the right items for the right persons when they leave town ... quite the hassle. :)

I'd safely assume there would be guard nearly everywhere .. not really everywhere but not far from it. It's a town run by commerce,, that means lots of valuables and that means lots of guards to protect those valuables and their owners.

Anyways, I got all the ideas I needed, I'll try to polish my city.


Then again, you could also just have the restrictions apply to travellers or something. I dunno. Restricting weapons gets pretty complicated - if a butcher decides to murder a man, is he going to use a sword or his completely legal tools of the trade? If a farmer decides to rise in rebellion against the taxmen, his scythe and pitchfork stop looking like tools and start looking like polearms.

I'm trying not to get too specific since it gets so complicated. A butcher's knife is technically legal .. but someone sees the butcher strolling around town, knife in hand? suspicious ... and even if he uses a tool instead a weapon, it's still murder so if he's found out, he's still having consequences.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

I'm a fan of 'You can't wear armor or weapons of war openly' as a restrictive law. Inspires players to try to think appropriately, and get creative to get all their stuff through. Spellcasters get left unchecked, though; confiscating spellbooks and spell component pouches, and ensuring a swift response to magic being cast openly would be the best solution to me. Yes, sorcerers get left unchecked, but thats just a benefit of being a sorcerer: you can look like any guy off the street, then you start casting.

[Lightlawbliss]

Most historic cities operated on "can't carry/use X, Y, and/or Z unless (insert exceptions)" style laws for weapons control, often just throwing in a clause along the lines of "or any other device used solely for the harming of men". Granted, this is a game where a great sword is a common dungeon clearing weapon and the most powerful hand held crossbows can be loaded in 6 seconds by a 3 str nobody.

[Pyon]

By the way, what's the control on bardic music? Do you consider it a spell, or does it just have gray area? Because you should limit that stuff as well, bardic music is just as dangerous as regular spell casting. Plus: you can sell bard licenses. You aren't allowed to sing or play instruments unless you have a license :wink: That's how you make money kids.

[Urpriest]

I think you should aim for something on the same level of effort and effectiveness as peacebonding weapons. It should be more of a token demonstration, and it should be cheap.

My suggestion is to make spellcasters wear a brightly colored stole with bells on it whenever in public. That way it's always obvious who's a spellcaster, and they can't sneak up on anybody without silencing the bells. Someone with silent bells or who casts spells while not wearing the stole is up to no good and good reason to call the watch.

[TheJoker116]

I've included bardic music in the laws regarding magic and any object used in spells is considered a magic medium. This means a bard's instrument and a cleric's holy symbol would be considered the same as a spellbook, regarding laws.

[Milodiah]

I've included bardic music in the laws regarding magic and any object used in spells is considered a magic medium. This means a bard's instrument and a cleric's holy symbol would be considered the same as a spellbook, regarding laws.

...so, you're stripping bards of their primary livelihood in cities? I mean, it makes sense to take a fighter's, which is a sword and swords are for hurting people. But instruments are for entertainment mostly, with some magical capabilities that can stem from them...by banning musical instruments you're essentially becoming the town from Footloose.

I played in a 2e game with coded wristbands for divine and arcane magic, so the guards can easily determine the threats they're dealing with. A cleric who's mostly healing oriented gets a blue, whereas a fire-spewing wizard gets red.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Honestly, if all the mundanes have to do is tie a knot to make it harder to draw a weapon, I don't see why spellcasters would get a mythal. I mean, that knot serves no purpose. You can rip it off with a Strength check, undo it with a couple actions, cut it with a hidden blade, draw a hidden blade, fake the knot so that it doesn't actually hamper you, loosen it discreetly before violence, punch a guy in the face without a weapon, and so on. There's about a million ways to bypass it even for low-level characters, so it's really more a gesture of good faith and adherence to local customs than some absolute violence-stopper. To me the equivalent for casters would be to put a similar knot around the top of their component pouch or maybe wrap their holy symbol in a piece of fabric - not to cook up an epic-level mythal of incredible power with DM-fiat custom badges...

There's no DM-fiat about this, it's all clearly defined in the rules. The example Silverymoon ward prevents fire and teleportation spells unless you wear a special badge iirc.

And sure, it's expensive - for a single character. So it's not something that every village and frontier town will have, but any well off trade city can afford one (assuming that your world has a magic level similar to FR of course). It's pretty much necessary protection in a high magic world and it's not like you have to ever renew it.

The way a mythals price is calculated also means that no one will ban all spellcasting. It's probably enough to ban the few schools and/or descriptors that are most commonly used to do harm and leave other spellcasting alone, since it's pretty much the high fantasy equivalent to the way we use technology.

[Extra Anchovies]

...so, you're stripping bards of their primary livelihood in cities? I mean, it makes sense to take a fighter's, which is a sword and swords are for hurting people. But instruments are for entertainment mostly, with some magical capabilities that can stem from them...by banning musical instruments you're essentially becoming the town from Footloose.

Banning public musical performances without licenses, actually. Which is kind of a think we have in real life, at least in some countries.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Make the town from Footloose! I encourage this!

[Urpriest]

There's no DM-fiat about this, it's all clearly defined in the rules. The example Silverymoon ward prevents fire and teleportation spells unless you wear a special badge iirc.

And sure, it's expensive - for a single character. So it's not something that every village and frontier town will have, but any well off trade city can afford one (assuming that your world has a magic level similar to FR of course). It's pretty much necessary protection in a high magic world and it's not like you have to ever renew it.

The way a mythals price is calculated also means that no one will ban all spellcasting. It's probably enough to ban the few schools and/or descriptors that are most commonly used to do harm and leave other spellcasting alone, since it's pretty much the high fantasy equivalent to the way we use technology.

If that were an option in this case, though, then instead of peacebonding weapons you'd have every citizen benefit from Ironguard or the like. Since the OP chose a non-magical and cheap solution for melee, it follows that such a solution is preferred for magic.

[Exegesis]

Punishment over prevention is the simplest solution, but after the first time something really bad happened wouldn't the city tend to install tons of airport security even if it's highly inefficient?

[redwizard007]

Take the easy road here, SNITCHES. Pay street urchins a gp to point out casters after they violate the law. Then use *identify last spell cast* or some such level 0/1 spell to confirm.

[Urpriest]

Take the easy road here, SNITCHES. Pay street urchins a gp to point out casters after they violate the law. Then use *identify last spell cast* or some such level 0/1 spell to confirm.

The problem is, when interacting with powerful mages, snitches tend to get [made into flesh golems]...

[mabriss lethe]

What you're looking at is creating a public token of compliance. Peacebonding never really deterred anyone set to cause harm. It would, however, provide a veneer of civility However, be it for blades or spells, there needs to be some real teeth behind it. In the case of weaponry, a well organized city guard will suffice. For magic, you need something similar. They need to register with the local authorities (or face immediate penalties if caught using any magic of any sort) and wear some sort of identifier in public. Perhaps powerful spellcasters have banded together and imposed these rules on their own numbers. Basically "don't get caught doing anything that makes magic users look bad and we won't pry too much." Out in public, no one uses any sort of harmful casting that can be traced back to them by the big bad nasties that keep the peace. Of course if someone does break the magical peace, in comes the "mage squads" Which are a mix of higher level guards, casters, and possibly a golem of some sort. (of which the city has a small supply for emergency response) If a caster chooses to not practice his art in the city, no one will probably ever care if he's registered or not.

[chaos_redefined]

Why not hand out "scabbards" for material component pouches/holy symbols/etc..., so that they can be "knotted"?

You might need to modify these slightly.

The biggest problem is that handy haversacks are standard adventuring gear, and I can stow my weapon in there.

[Lightlawbliss]

...
The biggest problem is that handy haversacks are standard adventuring gear, and I can stow my weapon in there.

both methods: standard action to prepare weapon to draw and move action draw, unless you are using a weapon that won't damage the bag.

[TheJoker116]

Using a bardic instrument is not illegal so public entertainers can still earn a few coins for food and lodging but they are not allowed to use any magic with it without a license. Just like a wizard is allowed to read his spellbook and prepare spells but is prohibited from using them without license.

[Trickquestion]

What you're describing (a wealthy trade city with specific restrictions on magic) sounds very similar to how they portrayed Amn in Baldur's Gate. In Amn, when an unlicensed person (and licenses are pricey, but buy-able completely legally) casts a spell, a bunch of Cowled Wizards (essentially magic cops in gray robes) teleport in in groups of four and drag you to the Spellhold asylum for "magical deviants." It's stated that this is to prevent destructive magic from disrupting trade and impacting the livelihood of the people, but it's a blatant magic monopoly, as the Cowled Wizards are a bunch of corrupt murderers and Spellhold is a front for experimenting on the people they captured to increase their own power.

[Zale]

I think you should aim for something on the same level of effort and effectiveness as peacebonding weapons. It should be more of a token demonstration, and it should be cheap.

My suggestion is to make spellcasters wear a brightly colored stole with bells on it whenever in public. That way it's always obvious who's a spellcaster, and they can't sneak up on anybody without silencing the bells. Someone with silent bells or who casts spells while not wearing the stole is up to no good and good reason to call the watch.

I personally second this idea. It works to about the same effect as a peacebond (In that it doesn't really stop disaster, just politely discourage it). Perhaps combine with a need for a license for magic over a certain level, (And perhaps budget for stoles that light up or change subtly when a more powerful spell is cast).

A mythal strikes me as being completely overboard, since that's EPIC magic. By the time you can get a mythal made you probably don't need it to deal with wandering wizards. Every wizard will know that messing with stuff in your town means the EPIC GOD WIZARD will descend from the sky in CHARIOT OF FIRE and DELIVER HIS WRATH UNTO THEM AND ALL OF THEIR LINEAGE.

It's like having a nuke on a stick. No one is going to poke that.

[Milo v3]

One thing, even though clerics/oracles/favoured souls need to use divine focuses to cast spells Do Not Prohibit holy symbols... that is one fast way to get the cleric to start crusaders against your government .

[Chester]

We do something similar in my campaign....all magic users are required to be "registered," and all magical items are "tagged" for approval; there are scanners at the gates of the city, and untagged magical items are confiscated. Divine magic is allowed, as it's a "gift from the gods."

This, of course, opens up a lucrative black market for magic items. The city has several competing criminal organizations, and a corrupt government uses arcane magic for its own purposes.

[Invader]

Now, what about unarmed sword sages and monks... :smallamused:

[saxavarius]

I present to you Far Madding form the Wheel of Time series
http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Far_Madding

Short Version: All weapons are peace knotted using WIRE and there is a barrier preventing any use of magic. Not mentioned in the wiki is that there are guard posts spaced out so that there is ALWAYS at least one group of ~6 guards ready to squash any violence and there are roving patrols that monitor alleys and the market squares.

[AnonymousPepper]

Small towns will have to do with asking nicely and having a town mage - more likely a low-level cleric or sorcerer, maybe backed up with a Swift Hunter who has a Favored Enemy: Arcanist or perhaps a duskblade, for towns that get a lot of visitors.

Cities can have an anti-caster response force of some sort consisting of wizards, crusaders, and clerics (the latter twodevoted to the setting's god of magic or wizards, generally, i.e. Mystra or Boccob), and have selective anti-magic fields on important buildings.

A metropolis could potentially have a mythal that only allows certain people to cast in its radius without a key. Of course, that's the least a mythal could do, and mythals are epic magic, but it's one of the things it's explicitly able to do. And of course, if you have a mythal, then you almost certainly have casters that can play rocket tag all day for keeps with the party wizard.

The thing with casters is there's no cheap way to shut them down like there is with martials, so you just have to rely on credible deterrence. The only *relatively* cheap method I can think of besides deterrence is to use a paladin's at-will Detect Evil, and straight-up ban any evil spellcasters from entering your town. Could go further and ban CN ones by using Detect Chaos and Detect Good in conjunction with Detect Evil, but that's somewhat more intensive.

[Azoth]

Just make certain spells illegal in the area. Give all casters a bracelet that can only be removed at the town gate to wear that records spells used by the wearer while worn. If a wearer tries to use an illegal spell the casting time becomes 1 Round and changes the color of the bracelet.

Simple, effective, and non invasive. The Wizard can walk around with Cloudkill prepped and ready to go, but if he tries to pop it off he is delayed until his next initiative count before it goes off.

If you want to be mean with it, have the bracelet use message when the spell is cast targeted at the nearest member of the town guard.

[Milodiah]

I'd say another thing to do would be strongly encourage wizards to set up contingency spells tied to the use of offensive spells, in that a big loud warning will pop up for everyone within a few blocks to see that an offensive spell is being cast. Obviously someone doing so in self-defense would want something that screams "Hey, look over here, fighting!" but someone using it for murder certainly wouldn't.

I don't know how hard it would be to enforce, given I'm not fully aware of the interplay between contingency spells and detect magic spells, but I'd think it'd be pretty tough. Plus there's a focus involved that could hypothetically just be tossed away, although this overlaps with the other physical marker ideas.

[Urpriest]

Just make certain spells illegal in the area. Give all casters a bracelet that can only be removed at the town gate to wear that records spells used by the wearer while worn. If a wearer tries to use an illegal spell the casting time becomes 1 Round and changes the color of the bracelet.

Simple, effective, and non invasive. The Wizard can walk around with Cloudkill prepped and ready to go, but if he tries to pop it off he is delayed until his next initiative count before it goes off.

If you want to be mean with it, have the bracelet use message when the spell is cast targeted at the nearest member of the town guard.

Those would end up being rather expensive custom magic items, is the issue. Not exactly on par with a simple weapon peacebond.


I'd say another thing to do would be strongly encourage wizards to set up contingency spells tied to the use of offensive spells, in that a big loud warning will pop up for everyone within a few blocks to see that an offensive spell is being cast. Obviously someone doing so in self-defense would want something that screams "Hey, look over here, fighting!" but someone using it for murder certainly wouldn't.

I don't know how hard it would be to enforce, given I'm not fully aware of the interplay between contingency spells and detect magic spells, but I'd think it'd be pretty tough. Plus there's a focus involved that could hypothetically just be tossed away, although this overlaps with the other physical marker ideas.

The vast majority of casters in a city will not be able to cast Contingency.

[Azoth]

Okay, anything you do that slows or inhibits spellcasting is going to be expensive. Let's just get that out in the open. There is nothing to inhibit spellcasting that is going to be as cheap as a piece of twine.

If you want cheap just have the wizard promise not to reduce your town to rubble. Because anything else is going to cost a couple thousand gold at minimum.

The only way not to make it seem outlandish is to do something similar to warriors. Hell put a custom Hold Portal on scabbards and quiver covers. Now a bracelet, badge, floppy hat, ect doesn't seem so overly expensive by comparison.

[Iron Angel]

Simple, most spellcasters they would see would be lower level, and spells require components, generally. Their component pouches must be worn on the outside, and they must be knotted shut so they can't get to the components to cast spells easily. Wouldn't work against a higher level mage who doesn't need components, but then, a knot on a scabbard isn't going to stop Grognar the 28 strength half-orc barbarian from just pulling his sword out of its sheath by snapping the knot with sheer force. Essentially, the laws would limit low level characters but higher level ones are going to me buch harder to effectively limit, and thats fine.

[NotScaryBats]

You don't need a custom spell to stick a weapon in a sheath, Cityscape has Peacebond (and False Peacebond), 10 min/lvl duration 1st level spell (or 2nd level spell that fakes it) that make a weapon impossible to draw. It makes weapons glow for the duration, so you know when someone has it on them.

Now, making everyone subject themselves to this spell for the entirety of their stay? That is a pretty hardcore defense, but I just wanted to float the idea and make sure people didn't think custom Hold Portal is the only way to achieve the result.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

I present to you Far Madding form the Wheel of Time series
I present to you the anti-Far-Madding tactic, also from the Wheel of Time series:

1) Open Gateway A with exit point 3 miles over city.
2) Open Gateway B facing Gateway A, with exit point inside Dragonmount.
3) Laugh maniacally as city is obliterated by magma from above.
4) Note for future reference that this can be done by any strong enough Aes Sedai from anywhere in the world to any city anywhere else in the world. No reason to even be in the same continent as the city you want gone.

For DnD purposes, replace "gateway" with "gate spell" and "Dragonmount" with "Plane of Fire".



Alternatively;

1) Use PAO spells to transform huge boulders into grains of sand.
2) Put lots of grains of sand in a bottle after month or so of repeated castings in some mountains.
3) Have your familiar fly over the city and drop the bottle.
4) Bottle crosses into citywide AMF and grains of sand turn back into huge boulders.
5) Carve a stele over the ruins of city proclaiming this is what happens to cities that annoy wizards.

[Urpriest]

I present to you the anti-Far-Madding tactic, also from the Wheel of Time series:

1) Open Gateway A with exit point 3 miles over city.
2) Open Gateway B facing Gateway A, with exit point inside Dragonmount.
3) Laugh maniacally as city is obliterated by magma from above.
4) Note for future reference that this can be done by any strong enough Aes Sedai from anywhere in the world to any city anywhere else in the world. No reason to even be in the same continent as the city you want gone.

For DnD purposes, replace "gateway" with "gate spell" and "Dragonmount" with "Plane of Fire".



Alternatively;

1) Use PAO spells to transform huge boulders into grains of sand.
2) Put lots of grains of sand in a bottle after month or so of repeated castings in some mountains.
3) Have your familiar fly over the city and drop the bottle.
4) Bottle crosses into citywide AMF and grains of sand turn back into huge boulders.
5) Carve a stele over the ruins of city proclaiming this is what happens to cities that annoy wizards.

In D&D Gate only lets contiguous objects through, not fluids. But the other tactic works.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

In D&D Gate only lets contiguous objects through, not fluids.
It transports anyone or anything that moves through it - there's no limitation.

[Urpriest]

It transports anyone or anything that moves through it - there's no limitation.

Anything. If it can't be treated as a distinct thing, it can't be transported. Remember, Gate instantly shunts anything that moves through to the other side, you can't have something partly on one side and partly on the other. There's no canonical way to divide fluids into parts, so if you interpret it as applying to fluids then you have no way of knowing what gets transported. Is the whole atmosphere one "thing", or just part of it? If just part, why just that part? If the whole thing, why not include the planet, or the crystal sphere?

If you don't interpret "thing" as something akin to "object", referring only to distinct, characterized objects with their own hit points and the like, then the spell isn't just broken, it's unusable. You can never parse it conclusively, so you can never cast it.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

1) The spell says nothing about "distinct" or otherwise.

2) The PHB wording of the spell specifically mentions shunting off attacks or forces (which are indistinct things) to other planes by opening the Gate in their path. It also mentions that denizens of such other planes might not appreciate such tactics.

3) The city you decided to annihilate will obviously not appreciate it. :smallbiggrin:

4) Canonically liquids are divided by volume or container - that many cubic feet, or the 1 lb of liquid in a bottle and so on and so forth; those are used in the PHB. Also, objects and spaces have size categories and the largest size category in the game is Colossal (30 ft cube). If you insist on treating liquids as objects, it isn't impossible. The Gate will be transporting the maximum possible such division in the game (colossal space - 30 ft cube) at a time.

[Urpriest]

4) Canonically liquids are divided by volume or container - that many cubic feet, or the 1 lb of liquid in a bottle and so on and so forth; those are used in the PHB. Also, objects and spaces have size categories and the largest size category in the game is Colossal (30 ft cube). If you insist on treating liquids as objects, it isn't impossible. The Gate will be transporting the maximum possible such division in the game (colossal space - 30 ft cube) at a time.

There isn't a per-round limit, though, which seems to imply that you'd be switching the closest 30ft cube of air between both sides of the Gate an infinite number of times per second.