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Eldpollard
2007-03-24, 12:43 PM
Now I realise this has probably been asked before, so if there are links to a thread with this on then a link would be useful.

But anyway I'm playing a druid for the first time, what would you recommend as my companion?

marjan
2007-03-24, 12:53 PM
Here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=10552967#post10552967) you have just about anything needed for building druid.

Kultrum
2007-03-24, 12:54 PM
Well if you don't mind being cliche' the wolf is pretty good till higher levels.
A badger is neat and gets rage. If there is a bard in your party you can get a dog and teach it to perform for money, not helpful but fun. Depending on the setting a horse, camel, or a riding dog can be helpful depending on your DM's prefs, I know some that don't like mounts in their games. And if all else fails ask your DM what would be most helpful in the campaign.

Rakeesh
2007-03-24, 01:15 PM
Not enough information to gauge. Where is your campaign taking place, environmentally speaking? Are you likely to see a variety of different sorts of habitats? What purpose are you looking for in your animal companion, a superb co-combatant? Helpful tracker? Long-distance scout?

JaronK
2007-03-24, 05:25 PM
Wolf? No no. A riding dog is better in every way. Wolf is just for flavor.

JaronK

asqwasqw
2007-03-24, 05:41 PM
Wolf is fun. Polymorth into a wolf, summon some more wolves, and now you have a wolf pack. Whee!

Ranis
2007-03-24, 06:02 PM
Polar Bears are really nice.

Quietus
2007-03-24, 06:07 PM
Friend of mine runs a druid with a brown bear that steals the spotlight, always... though I think he was breaking a few rules for a while and giving it power attack before it was supposed to have it.

I have a druid that has a snake companion, which, while not being the GREATEST UBAR COMPANION TEH EVAR, is a LOT of fun. Medium viper, and now that I'm level 3, I've used its four-hit-dice stat boost (the rules are iffy on if you get it, we rule that you do) to bump its con up, plus the increased hit die and I gave it Ability Focus (Poison) - It's got +7 to hit with a bite for 1d4-1, and when it DOES hit, it's a poison DC 15 for 1d6 con/1d6 con. And I have a tendency to roll high when it counts... last fight we were in, we fought twelve guys, and while most of them ended up stabilized, the ONE kill our party made was from my snake, who con-damaged one of the fighters to death.

Fizban
2007-03-24, 07:32 PM
Start with a war trained riding dog or wolf. The riding dog has 2 higher strength, the wolf has 10' more speed, take your pick.

After that, black bear->brown bear->dire bear. Best for raw general power.

If you want a mount, or your party uses a specific strategy that would benefit from poison, pounce, or some other ability then you might go diferent, but bears are generally better.

goat
2007-03-24, 07:36 PM
Dire Badger.

Dig tunnels under houses into the cellars and rob them, or until the house collapses.

Rakeesh
2007-03-24, 07:36 PM
Meh, I dunno. I've never DMd before, but I think I would rule a wardog as out for a Druid Animal Companion, at least when it comes to permitting it to wear barding.

Orzel
2007-03-24, 07:40 PM
riding dog or wolf -> bear -> bigger bear or giant flying thing -> bigger advanced bear or giant advanced flying thing

PinkysBrain
2007-03-24, 07:59 PM
Fleshraker dinosaur from MM3, nothing else comes close.

ArmorArmadillo
2007-03-24, 08:31 PM
The wolf is best for the early picks, as, aside from being fast and relatively good at attacking, improved trip can come in really handy in early fights.

Orzel
2007-03-24, 08:41 PM
Fleshraker dinosaur from MM3, nothing else comes close.

Truth... if your DM allows them.

Jack_Simth
2007-03-24, 08:45 PM
Depends on what you're after.

Just sticking with Core...

At 1st:
Attack: Either the Riding Dog (Bite +3 for 1d6+3) or a medium or small Viper (Bite +4 for 1d4-1 and Poison)

AC: Hawk, Owl, or Smal Viper (AC 17, all), with the Riding Dog coming in close at AC 16.

Riding Movement: Camel or Wolf (depending on your size) with a move of 50 (if you're Tiny, for whatever reason (halfling with Permanent Reduce Person?) an Eagle gets Fly 80 (Average)).

Stealth: Medium Viper, Hide +12

Alertness: Eagle or Hawk, Spot+16 (or Owl, Listen+16)

At 4th:

Attack: Bison. Gore +8 for 1d8+9 (but you'll want an Ape for the Full Attack goodness)

AC: Dire Bat (AC 20 - nothing else comes close).

Riding Movement: Dire Bat: Fly 40 (Good) is hard to beat; there are other possible mounts that are faster, but flying manueverability is just sweet. If you're a halfling, you can even do this in a dungeon by casting the long-running Reduce Animal. Just watch your weight. The Cheetah has a move of 50, and that nifty burst, if you feel the need to stay on the ground. The Dire Badger deserves mention here - because it has a special clause in it's entry; when it burrows, it leaves a useable tunnel. Good for getting into places where you can't go over the wall, controlling terrain for a battle you plan, and so on (you can, however, do most of this with Summon Nature's Ally II and Speak with Animals).

Stealth and Alertness: You're better off advancing one of the lower-level companions.

7th:
Attack: Brown Bear for the full attack, Elasmosaurus or Rhinocerous for the single.
AC: You're better off advancing a lower-level companion.
Riding Movement: Deinonychus at 60 (but you need to be small, or cast Animal Growth on it), the Dire Wolf at 50, or an advanced companion from a lower-level list.
Stealth and Alertness: You're better off advancing something from a lower-level list.

10th:
Attack: For the single attack, you want the Giant Constrictor, for the full attack, you want the polar bear (although the Dire Lion gets Pounce, which is very valuable).
AC, Stealth, and Alertness: You're better off advancing something from a lower-level list.
Riding Movement: Megaraptor at 60, or advance something from a lower-level list.

13th:
Attack: Dire Bear.
Everything Else: Advance something from a lower-level list.

16th:
Attack: Dire Tiger.
Everything else: Advance something from a lower-level list.

I haven't run the numbers, but there's a fair chance that with Attacks, you'll actually want to advance the winner from a few levels back in some cases.

If you'll want something with an "overall" score, you'll want to check things out carefully.

ocato
2007-03-24, 09:25 PM
If you're small like a gnome, pick a bird. Hawk or Eagle. I believe eagles can progress to either medium or large, whatever size it can get so it can lift you and fly. If you have a good concentration check (gnomes get +2 con!) you can use your bird for tactical advantage. Eagle swoops down, picks you up and now it's splinter bolts from the sky. Got your party's melee in the enemy's face reaping their attacks of opportunity when they get the gumption to try to range fight you. Swoop down and heal as necessary. I've never tried it, so there may be issues I didn't consider, but I've always wanted to try it.

Jack_Simth
2007-03-24, 09:31 PM
If you're small like a gnome, pick a bird. Hawk or Eagle. I believe eagles can progress to either medium or large, whatever size it can get so it can lift you and fly. If you have a good concentration check (gnomes get +2 con!) you can use your bird for tactical advantage. Eagle swoops down, picks you up and now it's splinter bolts from the sky. Got your party's melee in the enemy's face reaping their attacks of opportunity when they get the gumption to try to range fight you. Swoop down and heal as necessary. I've never tried it, so there may be issues I didn't consider, but I've always wanted to try it.
The biggest problem with that would be that bonus HD do not necassarily increase the size of critters as listed in their advancement section. Some DM's can be convinced that they do, others not.

If it does work, though, the Gnome or Halfling Druid can be permanently flying (and FAST, at that) at 3rd (Eagle goes to medium with even one extra HD - and an Animal Companion gets 2 bonus HD at the Druid's 3rd level), with an Exotic Saddle and a lot of ranks in Ride.

JaronK
2007-03-24, 09:35 PM
Start with a war trained riding dog or wolf. The riding dog has 2 higher strength, the wolf has 10' more speed, take your pick.

Riding dogs cannot be war trained... they are already dogs with the Warbeast template. See the template in MM2 for more information (it's the same reason you can't have a war trained Warhorse).

JaronK

TempusCCK
2007-03-24, 09:39 PM
My Druid is currently playing with a strangling rope lifted directly from Roger Zelaznys Chronicles of Amber.

He asked me if he could have it, so I made it up as an item and told him that if he wanted it, he wasn't going to get an animal companion. It's worked out pretty well, ability to knock out or kill by making a ranged touch attack, then following the strangulation rules.

It also warns him of danger, it's nifty, but it's coming with a price which he's about to pay in this next session. A little bit of DM-imposed balance.

Leon
2007-03-24, 11:44 PM
At 1st lvl my Druid is taking a Kank until Lvl 10 when i can get a Ixil

(Druid is also a Variant that doesnt use Wildshape - cos i dont like it)

War trained other animals - my preferance is on Boars

Kultrum
2007-03-25, 12:40 AM
When it comes down to it just pick the one that sounds the most fun. I mean an animal companion is helpful, but not that helpful unless you go for straitup power.

Fizban
2007-03-25, 01:57 AM
Riding dogs cannot be war trained... they are already dogs with the Warbeast template. See the template in MM2 for more information (it's the same reason you can't have a war trained Warhorse).

JaronK
I said nothing of the Warbeast template, I said war trained. Look at the riding dog description, it says "if trained for war" they can trip as a wolf. It doesn't say anything about a cost, so you can just specify that your riding dog was war trained, and poof, it has trip. It've seen it suggested plenty of times when people are looking for the "optimal" something that involves a mount.

I still prefer the wolf though, the only difference is two points of strength, and the wolf is faster.

If you want speed and power, a hyena has speed 50' and str 14, in addtion to the trip attack, but lacks the track feat and bonus on tracking by smell.

Drascin
2007-03-25, 08:37 AM
For style, nothing beats a Fleshraker/deinonychus. I mean, those buggers are strong, intelligent, bloodthirsty lizards with claws like razors. It just doesn't get much cooler than that. Also, if they are your size, they make awesome land mounts. They run as fast as horses, jump immeasurably better, can take care of themselves, and are easy to get into any man-sized structure (whereas my old bear had some trouble with narrow spaces).

Stephen_E
2007-03-25, 08:55 AM
If you're asking which animal is the best as a member of the party, then of the basic picks the Wold wins hands down. TRIP. If he trips his target everyone in the party gets a +4 to hit and an AOO if the opponent trys to rise. That's genrally one dead opponent. Much more damgerous than a Riding Dog.

If you're willing to put a feat (Natural Bond - Comp Advent) into it then by 4th lev you can have a a Dire Wolf. Aside from been ridable, the trip ability (+11 before buffs) becomes a real party friend. Can also assist or fill in for a Ranger with it's track ability. Also for the 1st 3 levels you can Dire Bat or Dire Badger.

Baers are aslo a strong party animal because of the Improved Grab grappling an opponent and allowing everyone to hack inot him. Weakness - Hard to get Dire, when grappling your companion is equally vunerable to the enemy, and lastly, but not least, you have to be VERY familiar with the DnD Grapple rules (feel headache coming?).

On a Personal Level the Direbat is a strong choice. You can take it at 1st lev with the Natural Bond feat, and gives you flying at 1st level. A strong move (warning. GMs may kill you out of spite for giving them headaches with a Flyer that can hover , at 1st level). If you take this route and have access to Savage Species I can't recommend enough Flyby Attack, followed by Great Flyby Attack. The latter allows you to use a full round action where you move your flight speed in a straight line and attack a number of opponents = Dex mod (+6 on the basic Dire Bat). All targets must be reachable from the line of movement, you make one attack roll and compare to the various ACs (note a 20 would be a crit threat against all). Make one damage roll applied to each target hit. Also no AOOs from those you attack.

If you want a animal who operates more solo the Cats, in particular Tigers are very Strong. Very difficult to get Dire though.

In general a Dire creature should always be taken if possible because they have all good saves, like the Monk, vs the 2 good saves of other animals.

If you're playing a Grasslands type campaign then your Simple Hv Warhorse isn't without it's charm, and the Deinonychus (dinosaur) for an advanced creature (if you're willing to pay the feat). Note: Ibeleive there is errata for this creature, which powers it down slightly and reduces it to a -3 penalty.

Important note: Multi Attack at 9th level give creatures with a single attack, such as Wolves, an additional attack at -5. This is a special variant for Animal Companions and isn't available to any other single attack creature.

Hope this help.
Stephen

Innis Cabal
2007-03-25, 08:59 AM
llama's are great

Thrawn183
2007-03-25, 10:18 AM
In one of my groups there is a druid with a fleshraker companion. It really hasn't done anything at all so far, though I freely admit this could be because our DM throws us up against things with boatloads of AC and it just generally isn't able to hit (it'd do decent damage if it could ever hit). She named it "fluffy." *sigh*

This probably has something to do with her getting slaughtered the last campaign day; oddly enough, my charisma drained bard survied?

PinkysBrain
2007-03-25, 11:12 AM
At 4th level you can have a fleshraker, at that point it has a +6/+6/+1/+1/+1 attack on a charge and one less on a full attack. A full BAB character in the mean time has around +8 ... period. So 4 or 5 attacks with 2 of them at nearly the same AB as the fighter, three of which forcing a save against poison at DC14.

At 9th level after animal growth it has +13/+13/+11/+11/+11 (you of course give him multiattack) on a charge and 18 poison DC before other buffs/items, compared to the full BAB character of around +13/+8. It would hit almost all CR9 monsters more than half the time with those attacks even without other buffs.

Fizban
2007-03-25, 11:30 AM
1: Natural Bond cannot make your effective level for the animal companion ability higher than your character level. You cannot use it at level 1. It's for multiclassing, like practiced spellcaster.

2: The riding dog does have trip, it just doesn't have it by default. But if you get one "trained for war", which i'm guessing refers to the tricks set in the handle animal skill, it gets trip. Just like a wolf. That's the whole point. It has the trip ability, and 2 more points of strength than a standard wolf.

3: the Fleshraker and Swindlepitter dinosaurs are broken for the druid levels they were assigned to, and should be bumped up to the next brackets. (for example, dire hawks got bumped up a bracket in one of the newer books).

I think that covers it.

Jack_Simth
2007-03-25, 01:20 PM
1: Natural Bond cannot make your effective level for the animal companion ability higher than your character level. You cannot use it at level 1. It's for multiclassing, like practiced spellcaster.
That's what it's for, but by a curious quirk of the wording, it can, potentially, mitigate the level adjustment of the advanced animal companions (but not let you get them early) - so a 4th level Druid could (potentially) have a Dire Bat with +2 Bonus HD (with corresponding stat boosts, feats, skill points, and saves), +2 Natural Armor, +1 Strength and Dexterity, 2 bonus tricks, and Evasion.

How's it work?
Well, the advanced animal companions have an "adjustment to the druid’s level (in parentheses) for purposes of determining the companion’s characteristics and special abilities".

Natural Bond increases your effective druid level for the same stuff provided it doesn't increase your effective druid level above your character level.

With an advanced companion, you're working with a negative adjustment to your effective druid level. The feat provides a bonus.

Mind you, it's similar to using Practiced Spellcaster on a Wild Mage.... but it potentially works.

So one feat can, potentially, give, say, your Ape +3 AC (+2 natural armor, +1 from the Dex enchancement as the Ape starts with an odd Dex score), +2 attack (+1 BAB, +1 Strength as the Ape has a default Odd Strength score), +1 damage (per attack), Evasion, a feat, 2 skill points, a trick, 2d8+4 HP, and increased saves.

Which is a rather nice bonus.

Fizban
2007-03-25, 02:17 PM
Very well, I concede that the wording is bad, but I maintain that most DM's would not allow it, as I believe most that actually read the stats of the fleshraker and swindlespitter would not allow it.

Jack_Simth
2007-03-25, 02:37 PM
Very well, I concede that the wording is bad, but I maintain that most DM's would not allow it, as I believe most that actually read the stats of the fleshraker and swindlespitter would not allow it.
Oh, agreed - it's a balance nightmare to let it work that way. The Natural Bonded Druid's Ape would have AC 17, 42 HP, 2 Claws +9 Melee for 1d6+6 and Bite +4 Melee with reach for 1d6+3 ... which will put the Raging NPC Barbarian-4 to shame - before the Druid uses spells like Barkskin or Magic Fang to buff the pet, or puts the Ape in cheap barding (Leather would cost a mere 40 gp, and could be left on the ape continuously for +2 AC).

ArmorArmadillo
2007-03-25, 03:37 PM
That's what it's for, but by a curious quirk of the wording, it can, potentially, mitigate the level adjustment of the advanced animal companions (but not let you get them early) - so a 4th level Druid could (potentially) have a Dire Bat with +2 Bonus HD (with corresponding stat boosts, feats, skill points, and saves), +2 Natural Armor, +1 Strength and Dexterity, 2 bonus tricks, and Evasion.

How's it work?
Well, the advanced animal companions have an "adjustment to the druid’s level (in parentheses) for purposes of determining the companion’s characteristics and special abilities".

Natural Bond increases your effective druid level for the same stuff provided it doesn't increase your effective druid level above your character level.

With an advanced companion, you're working with a negative adjustment to your effective druid level. The feat provides a bonus.

Mind you, it's similar to using Practiced Spellcaster on a Wild Mage.... but it potentially works.

So one feat can, potentially, give, say, your Ape +3 AC (+2 natural armor, +1 from the Dex enchancement as the Ape starts with an odd Dex score), +2 attack (+1 BAB, +1 Strength as the Ape has a default Odd Strength score), +1 damage (per attack), Evasion, a feat, 2 skill points, a trick, 2d8+4 HP, and increased saves.

Which is a rather nice bonus.
I'm pretty sure it doesn't stack like this. The effective level of the druid is reduced as a final adjustment, not combined with other adjustments.


If not, this would be a sketchy loophole at best and I think most DMs would errata or house-rule this not to work.

Jack_Simth
2007-03-25, 05:32 PM
I'm pretty sure it doesn't stack like this. The effective level of the druid is reduced as a final adjustment, not combined with other adjustments.
I'm fairly certain it's not supposed to stack like that... yet at the same time, by a quirk of the wording, it pretty much does.

If not, this would be a sketchy loophole at best and I think most DMs would errata or house-rule this not to work.Agreed. I called it a "balance nightmare" shortly after.

Stephen_E
2007-03-25, 07:56 PM
Re: Riding Dogs. - I apologise. I hadn't noticed the peice at the bittem saying War trained Dogs get Trip if "War Trained". Although it doesn't specifiy what "War Training" is, I think it's fair to assume that both the Fighting and Combat Mount set of tricks would apply.

Re: Natural Bond -
The Feat specifically says "Add 3 to your effective druid level for the purpose of determining the bonus Hit Dice, extra tricks, special abilities, and other bonuses that your animal companion receives (pg36 PHB). This bonus can never make your Effective druid level exceed your character level".

Now when we look at the PHB pg 35, last para of "Animal Companion" it talks about alternative companions and says "Should she select an animal companion from one of these alternative lists, the creature gains abilities as if the character's druid levels were lower than it actually is." If this isn't the same as saying your effective level is lower, I don't know what is. If you treat "Effective Druid level" the same as ECL, which would seem sensible, you take the actual level and add and subtract all penalties and bonuses to get the "effective druid level".

So the Alternative Companion penalties reduce your effective druid level and Natural bond increases your effective druid level. Thus you can use one to balance the other.

I have also asked Customer services about this and was told "yes, this is how it works". I did put the two ways of handling it in the question and they were quite emphatic about it working that way. Now while Customer Service have to high an error rate to be taken as conclusive, they are, IMHE, right more often than they're wrong.

This doesn't stop any DM ruling against it, but as per RAW it is legal as far as I can see.

Stephen

Stephen_E
2007-03-25, 08:26 PM
Re: Getting a new companion as your level rises, or improving the old one. -
It varies some, but IIRC when I analysed it some time ago I found that while a -3 or -6 penalty creature may be worth upgrading to (assuming you're actually losing advancement) but beyond that you're ussually losing out in actual strength (and even at th3 -3 & -6 level it's varies).

Basically if the size goes beyond "Large" it becomes a liability in many situations (no dungeon crawling for a start). If upgrading gains you a useful special ability (flight), or a significant increase in stats (upgrading a Riding Dog to a Dire Wolf) it's good, on the other hand you're ussually losing out on AC from missing the NAC bonus, the reduction in tricks (a Mount/Companion really wants 7 tricks minimum - Combat Riding (6) + attack all (1) ) the ability to choose feats, and the special abilities are nothing to sneeze at.

If you're contemplating doing a upgrade follow these steps.
1) The the upgrade have new abilities that you'll use frequently.
2) Does it have more HD than the advanced old model.
3) Does it have better stats than the advanced old model (including stat increase for every 4 levels if your GM allows it).
4) If the size changes, is it a help or hinderance in your campaign.

In general you're looking for something like ahead on 3, neutral on 1, or ahead a lot on 2, neutral or slight disadvantage on the other 2. If you don't get this don't bother with the upgrade unless it's for cool factor (Cool factor outranks practicality in most circumstances). Actually this, IMHO, is why the Animal Companion feature is the most important feature of Druids. They have way more opportunity for coolness/fun. The spells and Wildshape are just the "Power" features. If you aren't going to interact with your animal companion and have it influence your character concept, stick with a stuffed Hawk/Owl, ala V's familar crow.

Stephen

PinkysBrain
2007-03-25, 08:39 PM
Don't forget the saves, dire animals have all good saves.

Stephen_E
2007-03-25, 09:05 PM
Don't forget the saves, dire animals have all good saves.

:smallsmile: I knew I should have mentioned that again. I thought "It's relevant, but I mentioned that in a previous post, should I do so again? Nah, it'll be fine". Silly me.:smallredface:

Stephen