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Tarlek Flamehai
2014-11-21, 05:13 PM
I would like the Playground to help build a list of characters in literature that are clear examples of Iconic RPG character classes.

Barbarian: Conan

Bard: Felimid Mac Fall

Cleric: ?

Druid: ?

Fighter: Druss the Legend

Monk: ?

Paladin: Sir Galahad

Ranger: Aragorn, Robin Hood

Rogue: Hanse Shadowspawn

Sorcerer: Lythande

Wizard: Gandalf, Pug

Psion: Camber of Culdi, Professor Xavier, Dragon Lord Lenardo

Psychic Warrior: ?

Soulknife: ?

Wilder: Jean Grey


I look forward to your inputs.

Belial_the_Leveler
2014-11-21, 05:31 PM
Barbarian: Hercules

Bard: Orpheus

Cleric: Teiresias

Fighter: Perseus

Paladin: Achilles

Ranger: Atalanta

Rogue: Odysseus

Sorcerer: Circe

Wizard: Medea

Beleriphon
2014-11-21, 05:35 PM
Barbarian: Cú Chulainn or Fafhrd

Bard: Dandelion

Cleric: Archbiship Turpin

Druid: ?

Fighter: Herakles

Monk: Sun Wu Kong

Rogue: The Grey Mouser

Sorcerer: Ningauble or Sheelba

Wizard: Merlin

Psion: ?

Psychic Warror: Luke Skywalker

Wilder: ?

Dienekes
2014-11-21, 07:12 PM
In what way is Achilles a Paladin? Achilles, the guy who ditched his friends because his boss was mean to him, owned and repeatedly used personal sex slaves implied to be taken by conquest, so raped by our standards. He desecrates his enemies corpses. He's most well known for flying into uncontrollable rages. And tries to break his sworn oath by disguising himself as a woman. There's nothing paladin like about the guy.

Anyway, uhh

Fighter: Ajax, no social skills only fights, no magic on his side. Has one uncontrollable bloodlust rage but that was a curse from Athena so I wouldn't count it.

Frenzied Berserker: Logan "the Bloody Nine"

Scout: Legolas

If we can expand outside of 3.5
Cavalier: King Arthur, knight with a focus on leadership abilities.

Dire Moose
2014-11-21, 07:13 PM
It's true that Aragorn is the original "iconic ranger." In the same vein, Legolas and Gimli are the iconic elf and dwarf.

Bilbo Baggins is probably one of the most prominent characters that inspired the Rogue, and for the association between halflings and rogues in general.

Belial_the_Leveler
2014-11-21, 08:06 PM
In what way is Achilles a Paladin? Achilles, the guy who ditched his friends because his boss was mean to him, owned and repeatedly used personal sex slaves implied to be taken by conquest, so raped by our standards. He desecrates his enemies corpses. He's most well known for flying into uncontrollable rages. And tries to break his sworn oath by disguising himself as a woman. There's nothing paladin like about the guy.
1) God-given or at least god-blessed weapons.
2) Protection from harm by a divine source.
3) Charismatic leader to the point that his people didn't fight in a life-death struggle without his guidance.
4) Divine patron or patrons that acted on his behalf directly.

As for his flaws, they were not much different from what various Arthurian legend figures did in their stories.

Frozen_Feet
2014-11-21, 08:35 PM
Artificer: Seppo Ilmarinen (Kalevala)
Wizard: Väinämöinen (Kalevala)
Fighter or Barbarian: Kullervo and Lemminkäinen (Kalevala)
Witch: Louhi (Kalevala)

BrokenChord
2014-11-21, 08:39 PM
Sorry to be the person to bring this up, but...

Paladin: Gandalf

Only half joking, because I know he isn't presented as a Paladin. But it sure represents him a lot better than Wizard does.

Red Fel
2014-11-21, 10:34 PM
Barbarian: Sun Wukong (Journey to the West) - a furious monkey spirit who railed against the gods and was pressed against his will into the service of a Cleric.

Bard: Tom Bombadil (Lord of the Rings) - nobody's clear what he's actually doing in the story, he just sort of sings a bit. He entertains and makes people feel good.

Cleric: Xuanzang (the Journey to the West literary version, not his historical inspiration) - a student of theology who undertakes a sacred mission to recover holy texts, undergoing divine trials and tests during his pilgrimage.

Druid: Radagast the Brown (Lord of the Rings) - a powerful magical being who separated from his more civilized brethren to live among the plants and animals, abandoning the pretense of humanity and becoming their guardian.

Fighter: Too many to list. Pick one out of wuxia at random, you'll be fine.

Monk: See Fighter.

Ranger: Aragorn (Lord of the Rings). Yeah, I'll say it. He traveled in the wild, he fought, he tracked, he knew the paths and secret ways, he was a Ranger.

Rogue: Robin Hood. He sneaked, he stole, he bluffed, he tricked. He picked pockets and held up nobles, he disguised himself and infiltrated. So he lived in the woods and used a bow; big deal.

Sorcerer: Harry Dresden (The Dresden Files). Hear me out. On the one hand, some of his spellcasting requires ritual and circles and the like. But he doesn't prepare spells in advance; they are inherent to him, he simply "draws out" the magic around him. Further, his primary arsenal consists of, let's face it, blasting spells - generally more associated with Sorcerers than with Wizards.

Wizard: Pick any literary depiction of Abe no Seimei. The onmyoji were basically Wizards - scholarly masters of the occult who spent more time studying the stuff than actually zapping stuff. What they did was highly ritualized and complex, often taking hours; much of what they did consisted more of studying scrolls and omens than more traditional spell-blasting. Nonetheless, they were considered masters of mysticism, harnessing the five elements with incomparable skill. Abe no Seimei was the historic icon who basically inspired most, if not all, literary depictions of the onmyoji.

Arbane
2014-11-21, 11:41 PM
Barbarian: Sun Wukong (Journey to the West) - a furious monkey spirit who railed against the gods and was pressed against his will into the service of a Cleric.

In addition to being a stone monkey who could beat up gods, Wukong was also a powerful spellcaster. His class, obviously, is 'munchkin'. :smallbiggrin:

Barbarian: Iron Ox (From Heroes of the Water Margin)



Fighter: Too many to list. Pick one out of wuxia at random, you'll be fine.

Objection! Wuxia characters are too mobile to be fighters. Swordsages, maybe.

Fighter: Gimli, from Lord of the Rings.



Monk: See Fighter.

Monk: Kwai Chang Caine from Kung Fu. I'm pretty sure he was one of the primary inspirations.

...
2014-11-21, 11:55 PM
Fighter: Gimli, from Lord of the Rings.


As opposed to Gimli, from the "Lost Episodes" of the 2005 TMNT show.

ghendrickson
2014-11-22, 12:02 AM
Barbarian- Conan

Fighter- Beowulf

Rogue- Bilbo Baggins

Magus/Sorcerer- Elric and Corum

As for Gandalf, even though he's said to be a wizard, he never uses a spellbook and his magic seems to be created on the spot and more of the elemental kind. Maybe more of a sorcerer, not really a wizard.

Marlowe
2014-11-22, 03:50 AM
1) God-given or at least god-blessed weapons.
2) Protection from harm by a divine source.
3) Charismatic leader to the point that his people didn't fight in a life-death struggle without his guidance.
4) Divine patron or patrons that acted on his behalf directly.

As for his flaws, they were not much different from what various Arthurian legend figures did in their stories.

what.

1,2,and 4 are just nepotism.

For 3, if by "his people" you mean "The Achaians", then you're just wrong. If by "His people" you mean the myrmidons, of course they're not going to fight without their leader.

Anyway, there's a classic Paladin in the Illiad. And it's Hector. He even has the self-righteousness down pat.

Jeff the Green
2014-11-22, 05:32 AM
Sorcerer: Harry Dresden (The Dresden Files). Hear me out. On the one hand, some of his spellcasting requires ritual and circles and the like. But he doesn't prepare spells in advance; they are inherent to him, he simply "draws out" the magic around him. Further, his primary arsenal consists of, let's face it, blasting spells - generally more associated with Sorcerers than with Wizards.

Thaumaturgy doesn't work well as Wizard casting anyway; it takes much longer than evocation while Wizard and Sorcerer magic takes the same amount of time. Incantations (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/incantations.htm) work much better. I'd peg Molly as a Beguiler.

Murph's the clearest example of Swordsage I can think of (with a gun-based discipline). She uses throws and joint locks, derives most of her damage from correct placement of blows rather than brute force, and does a battle zen thing. Sounds like Setting Sun, Shadow Blade, and Diamond Mind to me.

Michael's a better Paladin than anyone mentioned so far. He's actually LG and would never dream of straying from it, is only at his best when fighting evil, and has minor magic powers. Galahad's close, but he didn't do magic.

Dienekes
2014-11-22, 11:08 AM
1) God-given or at least god-blessed weapons.
That's equipment, not him.

2) Protection from harm by a divine source.
Dipped into a river of death hardly qualifies as a lawful good diety.

3) Charismatic leader to the point that his people didn't fight in a life-death struggle without his guidance.
Accurate.

4) Divine patron or patrons that acted on his behalf directly.
That's the nature of the epic and could fit a cleric just as well. Unless you're going to argue that every single warrior in the Iliad was a paladin (except the Ajax's) this doesn't get you much. It also ignores the lawful good restrictions on the paladin. Achilles certainly wasn't lawful nor good.


As for his flaws, they were not much different from what various Arthurian legend figures did in their stories.
Don't remember any rape in Arthurian legends but even if you're right. Not every Arthurian knight qualifies as a paladin. Lancelot was assuredly an oath breaker. Really, it's only Galahad who gets the honor.

Super Evil User
2014-11-22, 11:22 AM
Warlock (Infernal Pact): Faust

Fatal Rose
2014-11-22, 12:15 PM
Paladin: Holger Carlsen (three hearts three lions), Galad (wheel of time)

Knight: Neil MeqVren (kingdoms of thorn and bone), Barristan Selmy (song of ice and fire)

Ranger: Aspar White (kingdoms of thorn and bone)

Bard: Leovigild "Leoff" Ackenzal (kingdoms of thorn and bone) Blue Bard (ASOIAF)

Fighter: Bronn (ASOIF)

Aedilred
2014-11-22, 04:55 PM
The Belgariad (and later the Malloreon have a few characters that check D&D class boxes:

Wizard/Sorcerer: Belgarath (and Polgara)
Fighter: Mandorallen (an argument could also be made for a nonmagical Paladin)
Ranger: Lelldorin (arguably a Ranger/Bard)
Rogue: Silk
Monk: Relg
Cleric: Sadi
Aristocrat: Ce'Nedra

Barak is basically a Barbarian/Druid. Hettar is a Fighter/Ranger. Garion ends up as something like a Paladin/Cleric.

(Un)Inspired
2014-11-22, 05:07 PM
Summoner: Ash Ketchum from Pallet town

Yora
2014-11-22, 05:17 PM
Rogue: The Grey Mouser

Psychic Warror: Luke Skywalker

Exactly. A good psion might be the Emperor, who almost entirely relies on mind powers with shoting lightning from the hands as backup.

Gnome Alone
2014-11-22, 05:18 PM
Thaumaturgy doesn't work well as Wizard casting anyway; it takes much longer than evocation while Wizard and Sorcerer magic takes the same amount of time. Incantations (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/incantations.htm) work much better. I'd peg Molly as a Beguiler.

Murph's the clearest example of Swordsage I can think of (with a gun-based discipline). She uses throws and joint locks, derives most of her damage from correct placement of blows rather than brute force, and does a battle zen thing. Sounds like Setting Sun, Shadow Blade, and Diamond Mind to me.

Michael's a better Paladin than anyone mentioned so far. He's actually LG and would never dream of straying from it, is only at his best when fighting evil, and has minor magic powers. Galahad's close, but he didn't do magic.

Maaaan, do I wanna stat up Murphy as a Swordsage now.

Molly as a Beguiler and Michael as a Paladin make buttloads of sense as well.

Way back before I'd even read any of the books, I kept running across threads here proposing various ways to stat up Dresden Files characters; the main focus, shockingly I know, was on Harry himself. The thing that kept coming up over and over again seemed to be that he (and Dresdenverse wizzrobes in general) were better represented as some kind of Psion... maybe Erudite? Egoist? I have no idea, cuz my impression of psionics is "crystals, ectoplasm, barf barf barf, I'm psionics," but, y'know, I thought it was an interesting take.

Beleriphon
2014-11-22, 06:20 PM
As opposed to Gimli, from the "Lost Episodes" of the 2005 TMNT show.

Or Manitoba. Gimli MB is only archetypal of small Canadian towns.

Jeff the Green
2014-11-22, 06:31 PM
Way back before I'd even read any of the books, I kept running across threads here proposing various ways to stat up Dresden Files characters; the main focus, shockingly I know, was on Harry himself. The thing that kept coming up over and over again seemed to be that he (and Dresdenverse wizzrobes in general) were better represented as some kind of Psion... maybe Erudite? Egoist? I have no idea, cuz my impression of psionics is "crystals, ectoplasm, barf barf barf, I'm psionics," but, y'know, I thought it was an interesting take.

The problem with psionics for the Dresdenverse (and the Belgariad/Mallorean characters mentioned by Aedilred is that their magic requires speaking. In the Belgariad sorcery is even called "the will and the word".

Super Evil User
2014-11-23, 02:51 AM
Archivist - pretty much any Lovecraft protagonist, but especially Wilbur Whateley's grandfather

veti
2014-11-23, 02:05 PM
Paladin: Gandalf

Only half joking, because I know he isn't presented as a Paladin. But it sure represents him a lot better than Wizard does.

Yeah, whatever Gandalf is, he's nothing whatever like a D&D wizard. Cleric or druid, perhaps. Paladin, possibly.

Similarly, I'd peg Merlin as a druid.

Necromancer: Dr. Frankenstein.

jaydubs
2014-11-23, 02:52 PM
Barbarian: Logen Ninefingers from The First Law

Bard: Kvothe from The Name of the Wind

I'd also argue Gandalf is a bard, since he casts some (but not too much) magic, handles himself well in a physical fight, likes to tell stories, and has a lot of obscure knowledge about the world.

Cleric: Thoros from A Song of Fire and Ice

Druid: Injun Joe from Dresden Files

Gunslinger: Vash the Stampede

Paladin: Michael Carpenter, Knight of the Cross from Dresden Files

Sorcerer: Harry Dresden

Wizard: The various wizards from Harry Potter

Beleriphon
2014-11-23, 03:00 PM
Wizard: The various wizards from Harry Potter

That always struck me more as the way D&D presents sorcerers, although the actual magic does use verbal and somatic components and in some instances material components (or as 5E presuposes a magical tool).

Prime32
2014-11-23, 03:07 PM
A few more unconventional suggestions:

Archivist - Hayate Yagami (Lyrical Nanoha A's), Index (A Certain Magical Index)
Barbarian - Cú Chullain (Celtic Mythology)
Bard - Mic Sounders XIII (GaoGaiGar)
Cleric - Byakuren Hijiri (Touhou; CoDzilla build)
Egoist - Inazuman (Inazuman), Martian Manhunter (DC Comics)
Factotum - Zelgadis Greywords (Slayers), Jack Rakan (Negima; gestalted with warblade)
Marshal - Captain America (Marvel Comics)
Monk - Kenshiro (Fist of the North Star)
Soulknife - Psylocke (Marvel Comics), Kazuma Kuwabara (Yu Yu Hakusho), Archer (Fate/stay night)
Swordsage - Azula (Avatar: The Last Airbender; Desert Wind focus), Sun Wukong (Journey to the West; Arcane Swordsage variant)
Totemist - Silva (Shaman King)
Wizard - Margery Daw (Shakugan no Shana; she doesn't fit much of the imagery, but she's a good example of the party role)

Arcane Archer - Anyone who uses astras (Hindu Mythology)
Impure Prince - Shinichi Izumi (Parasyte)
Ordained Champion - Signum (Lyrical Nanoha A's)
Sand Shaper - Gaara (Naruto)

TheCountAlucard
2014-11-23, 03:45 PM
This feels a little too D&D-centric. There's more to RPGs than character classes and levels, after all.

Gnome Alone
2014-11-23, 03:48 PM
Swordsage - Azula (Avatar: The Last Airbender; Desert Wind focus) Are there any Firebenders that can't be represented by Swordsage? It's a pretty natural fit. Ha, just the other day, my brother asked me if I had any char-gen ideas for a short campaign he was playing in starting at Level 8, and my first thought was, "Swordsage 1/Fighter 2/Swordsage 3/Dervish 3, specialize in Desert Wind, and resist the temptation to call yourself 'Prince Zuko'?" but in turned out that game was "no ToB," so ah well, and also man have I digressed here.

Wraith
2014-11-23, 03:51 PM
Discworld-themed list? Why, of course!

Barbarians: Cohen and the Silver Horde
Bard: Gytha "Nanny" Ogg (She plays the banjo, you know); Victor Tugelbend (Can't sing, can't dance, can handle a sword a little)
Cleric: The Prophet Brutha; Dios
Druid: Esmeralda "Granny" Weatherwax; Moist von Lipwig ("Schlat!!!" :smalltongue: ); Angua von Uberwald
Fighter: Bill Door (Exotic Proficiency: Scythe); Sgt. Jack Jackrum
Monk: Commander Sir Samuel Vimes (Once upon a time a Drunken Master, but now a sober expert in unarmed combat)
Paladin: Captain Carrot Ironfounderson
Rogue: Rincewind and Moist von Lipwig (Their Persuasion and Tumble skills are through the roof!), Teppicymon XXVIIth
Sorcerer: Coin, 8th Son of an 8th Son
Wizards: The Faculty of Unseen University

:smallsmile:

Arbane
2014-11-23, 04:04 PM
This feels a little too D&D-centric. There's more to RPGs than character classes and levels, after all.

Well, a lot of games that aren't D&D don't bother with classes. Exalted does, so this sort of 'match fictional characters to castes' game is popular with that one, too. But there'd be no point to doing this with GURPS.

veti
2014-11-23, 04:41 PM
Discworld-themed list? Why, of course!

Barbarians: Cohen and the Silver Horde
Bard: Gytha "Nanny" Ogg (She plays the banjo, you know); Victor Tugelbend (Can't sing, can't dance, can handle a sword a little)
Cleric: The Prophet Brutha; Dios
Druid: Esmeralda "Granny" Weatherwax; Moist von Lipwig ("Schlat!!!" :smalltongue: ); Angua von Uberwald
Fighter: Bill Door (Exotic Proficiency: Scythe); Sgt. Jack Jackrum
Monk: Commander Sir Samuel Vimes (Once upon a time a Drunken Master, but now a sober expert in unarmed combat)
Paladin: Captain Carrot Ironfounderson
Rogue: Rincewind and Moist von Lipwig (Their Persuasion and Tumble skills are through the roof!), Teppicymon XXVIIth
Sorcerer: Coin, 8th Son of an 8th Son
Wizards: The Faculty of Unseen University

The trouble with DW characters in this context is that they were written after the advent of D&D, so they're (to some extent) deliberately based on certain classes, rather than vice-versa.

I don't see Moist von Lipwig as a druid. Rogue, possibly, but I'd suggest bard (as his core skills are all social).

And Rincewind is a wizzard. It's the one thing he's always been completely sure about. Just because he's never managed to gain an actual level in it, doesn't stop him being one...

Dienekes
2014-11-23, 04:46 PM
This feels a little too D&D-centric. There's more to RPGs than character classes and levels, after all.

This is true.

Fantasy Craft time!

Assassin: Ezio Auditore
Burglar: Kasumi Goto
Captain: Major Richard Winters
Courtier: Petyr "Littlefinger" Baelish
Explorer: Indiana Jones
Keeper: Professor Farnsworth
Lancer: Sir Lancelot
Mage: Urza
Priest: Father Merrin
Sage: Jiminy Cricket
Scout: Aragorn
Soldier: Grey Worm
Emissary: Varys "the Spider"
Martial Artist: Jackie Chan

Alchemist: Isaac Newton
Beastmaster: ... Beastmaster
Edgemaster: Syrio Forel
Paladin: Sir Galahad
Rune Knight: Belgarion
Swashbuckler: Dread Pirate Roberts, or Westley
Bloodsworn: Barristan Selmy
Deadeye: Hawkeye
Force of Nature: Aang
Gallant: Sir William Marshall
Monk: Bruce Lee
Monster Slayer: Van Helsing

Dragon Lord: any half-dragon of legend really. I think Russia had some.
Regent: King Arthur
Spirit Singer: Solas
Wind Knight: Eragon

Knaight
2014-11-23, 08:35 PM
Don't remember any rape in Arthurian legends but even if you're right. Not every Arthurian knight qualifies as a paladin. Lancelot was assuredly an oath breaker. Really, it's only Galahad who gets the honor.

Galahad and Percival both get plenty of honor, and there are others that are consistently good people (but probably died early), such as Agravaine.

As for paladins and the Illiad, Hector is probably the closest fit, but there aren't any particularly close fits. The entire concept started in the medieval period, then slowly transformed.

Super Evil User
2014-11-23, 08:40 PM
Hunter x Hunter

Assassin - Killua

Monk - Leorio

Urban Ranger (Phantom Troupe favored)/Conjurer/Healer dip - Kurapika

Sorcerer - Gon

Mailman Sorcerer (Spell Theme: Cards) - Hisoka

Dienekes
2014-11-23, 09:17 PM
Galahad and Percival both get plenty of honor, and there are others that are consistently good people (but probably died early), such as Agravaine.

As for paladins and the Illiad, Hector is probably the closest fit, but there aren't any particularly close fits. The entire concept started in the medieval period, then slowly transformed.

I was unclear. I meant honor as in, having the distinction of being what I would classify as a paladin. There were a lot of good knights and Percival is awesome, but I don't remember him ever getting the divine intervention shtick that Galahad frequently gets applied to him, though I could be wrong. I draw a distinction between a D&D style paladin, and just some lawful good guy with a knighthood. Galahad, in at least one interpretation, had angels serve him and ascended into heaven. Percival were just really cool guys. Though, now that I think of it, Bors of all people sometimes has God go around doing things for him, so I guess he'd qualify as a paladin as well.

Gnome Alone
2014-11-23, 10:03 PM
If memory serves, Bors, Percival and Galahad are the only ones who even come anywhere near the Grail during that whole fiasco in The Once and Future King, with the unnerving, almost inhumanly holy last being the one to actually get it.

This may be the same in other renditions of the Arthurian jazz, but that's the only one I've read, so...

GorinichSerpant
2014-11-23, 10:39 PM
Monk: Commander Sir Samuel Vimes (Once upon a time a Drunken Master, but now a sober expert in unarmed combat)



I don't recall Vimes ever fighting as a drunk, in fact wasn't the reason he stopped drinking because he was a horrible drunken mess when doing so. I think rogue seems more appropriate for him. He uses his fists yes, but I think his dirty tricks are really more like a rogues sneak attack then a monk's discipline.

Knaight
2014-11-23, 11:28 PM
If memory serves, Bors, Percival and Galahad are the only ones who even come anywhere near the Grail during that whole fiasco in The Once and Future King, with the unnerving, almost inhumanly holy last being the one to actually get it.

This may be the same in other renditions of the Arthurian jazz, but that's the only one I've read, so...

It's along the same lines in Le Morte d'Arthur, which is my go-to source (though I have read various short stories and such).

Gnome Alone
2014-11-24, 12:09 AM
That makes sense, especially since White continually references Le Morte d' Arthur throughout. Keeps saying stuff like, "and if you want the full results of the jousting tourntament, please consult Mallory" - which, I gotta say, does not exactly inspire me to run out and read it. Though I probably will eventually.

Knaight
2014-11-24, 12:12 AM
That makes sense, especially since White continually references Le Morte d' Arthur throughout. Keeps saying stuff like, "and if you want the full results of the jousting tourntament, please consult Mallory" - which, I gotta say, does not exactly inspire me to run out and read it. Though I probably will eventually.

It's a good book, I recommend reading it.

Zrak
2014-11-24, 02:15 AM
And sometimes Percival, when people remember him. Poor guy.

Bors is always just kind of a jerk. You get the feeling Percival and Galahad's real test of courtly virtue was having to put up with Bors.

Wraith
2014-11-24, 05:39 AM
I don't see Moist von Lipwig as a druid. Rogue, possibly, but I'd suggest bard (as his core skills are all social).

The "Druid" bit comes from one very short scene where he ...well, 'accidentally' demonstrates his reasonably high Animal Handling skill on a creature which he *thinks* is a dog, but turns out to be something rather nastier.

But yes, point taken. Maybe Bard with a few levels of Ranger, since he's generally going to use Disguise or Persuade/Haggle but is also not too shabby at Survival when pressed. :smallsmile:


And Rincewind is a wizzard. It's the one thing he's always been completely sure about. Just because he's never managed to gain an actual level in it, doesn't stop him being one...

Hmm, this seems like a "Divide By Zero" problem to me. Even level 1 Wizards can cast spells of some description, even if only cantrips, but Rincewind is said in-universe to be be at "Level 0" in terms of his magical ability. Can you be Level 0 in a class and still be said to BE that class? And if you can be a Level 0 Wizard, without any Wizardly abilities at all, are you not also Level 0 in every other class at the same time, too? And Rincewind certainly isn't a Fighter, Monk or Assassin, even a Level 0 one. :smallwink:

I see what you're saying, but his Doctorate at the Unseen University is an Honourary one for Services To Magic rather than anything else (see Interesting Times). I think he's a Rogue with such a high Bluff skill that he has convinced himself that it's the same thing as a Wizard. :smallbiggrin:


I think rogue seems more appropriate for him. He uses his fists yes, but I think his dirty tricks are really more like a rogues sneak attack then a monk's discipline.

For some reason I was thinking in terms of Alignment restrictions, and had forgotten that Rogues can still be Lawful. :smallconfused:
But yes, I definitely agree with you - Sneak Attacks with a Sap, would much rather use a Club (Light Weapon) than a Broadsword (Martial Weapon), and has excellent Hide In Shadows... Arguably, he might even qualify for the early levels of Shadow Dancer. :smallbiggrin:

Jay R
2014-11-24, 09:47 AM
Gandalf has no character class in the D&D sense. He's an angel - one of the Maiar. Trying to determine his "character class" is like determining a character class of a Balrog (also a Maiar).

Red Fel
2014-11-24, 10:33 AM
Rincewind is a Wizard, but his entire Spellbook is taken up by a single spell that has a CL prerequisite beyond the ability of mortals. As a result, despite having the ability to cast spells, he can't learn any new ones and can't cast the only spell he does know.

veti
2014-11-24, 03:47 PM
Don't remember any rape in Arthurian legends but even if you're right. Not every Arthurian knight qualifies as a paladin. Lancelot was assuredly an oath breaker. Really, it's only Galahad who gets the honor.

There's such a thing as "falling paladins", and Lancelot fits that trope to a T. He might even be the archetype.

jamieth
2014-11-24, 04:01 PM
Bard (of the actually useful variety) - Thomdril Merrilin (Wheel of Time): travelling minstrel, party's main skillmonkey (Forgery, Bluff, Diplomacy, half a dozen types of Perform...), Bardic Knowledge...high-level enough to be an advisor (and, heavily implied, lover) to a queen.

Tvtyrant
2014-11-25, 01:29 AM
That always struck me more as the way D&D presents sorcerers, although the actual magic does use verbal and somatic components and in some instances material components (or as 5E presuposes a magical tool).

I always thought of the Harry Potter universe as being full of Warlocks. They still have Somatic components, and they have at-will powers but mostly they use the same few signature ones. They make lots of magical items though, which the Warlock does.

FabulousFizban
2014-11-28, 01:34 PM
I was unclear. I meant honor as in, having the distinction of being what I would classify as a paladin. There were a lot of good knights and Percival is awesome, but I don't remember him ever getting the divine intervention shtick that Galahad frequently gets applied to him, though I could be wrong. I draw a distinction between a D&D style paladin, and just some lawful good guy with a knighthood. Galahad, in at least one interpretation, had angels serve him and ascended into heaven. Percival were just really cool guys. Though, now that I think of it, Bors of all people sometimes has God go around doing things for him, so I guess he'd qualify as a paladin as well.

Percival was the only knight in Arthurian legend who got two shots at the grail. Took twenty years, but I still call that divine intervention.

endoperez
2014-11-28, 02:59 PM
And now for something a bit different...


Barbarian Rogue: Conan of literature
Conan was a fighter, a king and a thief. He's at least half-way to being a skillmonkey, and he doesn't actually wear heavy armor, and he relies on dodging the blows instead of tanking them. He's cunning, speaks and reads several languages, and the plot of "The God In the Bowl" features Conan breaking in to a museum to steal a bejeweled goblet just when there's something dangerous going on.

Wizard Divine Bard: Gandalf

jaydubs argued the bard part well enough, just add in the fact that his magical powers are basically divine in origin and there you are.

Paladin Urban Ranger: Carrot Ironfoundersson

He's the lawful good all right, but there's nothing divine about it. He's "just" a good man with extremely high charisma. The Urban Ranger variant has him down to pat. Gather Information used to track down a suspect? Favoured Enemy: Thieves' Guild, Assassins' Guild... And the spells would explain some of his superhuman powers. Comprehend Languages, Discern Lies, Eagle's Splendor, Speak With Dead... Well, that last one was Death, and he didn't make a habit of it.
Plus, of course, the "animal" companion.

Arbane
2014-11-29, 02:36 PM
Barbarian Rogue: Conan of literature
Conan was a fighter, a king and a thief. He's at least half-way to being a skillmonkey, and he doesn't actually wear heavy armor, and he relies on dodging the blows instead of tanking them. He's cunning, speaks and reads several languages, and the plot of "The God In the Bowl" features Conan breaking in to a museum to steal a bejeweled goblet just when there's something dangerous going on.


Conan did wear heavy armor on occasion, but a Fighter dip handles that just fine.



Paladin Urban Ranger: Carrot Ironfoundersson
(SNIP)
Plus, of course, the "animal" companion.

Snerk.