No Rose smells as sweet....... as revenge

[Blackhawk748]

Let me tell you the tale of a girl named Rose Fallstar. To understand her tale we must go back to before her birth, about 9 months to be precise. Nadya Fallstar was a serving girl hired to work a noble's party. While working the party she met Frederich and the two took to each other as only soul mates can. Several weeks after the party Nadya discovered her pregnancy and she wrote Frederich who came immediately. As he arrived Nadya discovered that he wasnt some lower noble like she thought, he was the Crown Prince, and his family wasnt exactly happy. They forbid the two from marrying, at least until the child was born and was seen to be healthy.

Several months passed and the on the night of the birth Frederich and several of his relatives arrived to witness. Nadya gave birth to a healthy, bawling, female.......... tiefling. Frederich and his relatives were shocked and Nadya was to tired to notice the tiny pair of horns or her daughter's odd eye color. Frederich was concerned but he decided that this was his daughter and he would treat her as such, his relatives weren't as supporting. And so was he replaced as Crown Prince and sent to a small estate in the north, where he went with Nadya and his daughter Rose.

Several years went by and Rose grew into a strong and intelligent young girl, and her relation's dislike for her increased, until one day, when the King's second wife set up an "accident". This accident caused Frederich's home to burn to the ground with Frederich and Nadya inside, Rose managed to escape with the help of her handmaiden Christine. As the two attempted to make good their escape they were attacked by several thugs and Christine died attempting to protect Rose. As the thugs went to kill Rose something happened. She heard a Voice, the Voice asked to help her, it asked to reside in her to protect her, but it needed her permission. She said yes.

Awhile later Rose woke up surrounded by the corpses of her attackers. She returned to her family's home and took what she could and left for the nearest city, where, 12 years later, she still lives and works there as a Tavern girl. But its very different at night, at night she is The Black Rose an assassin that kills certain nobles. Nobles who have ties to the new king, the son of the former King's second wife. Nobles who are found killed in a dozen different ways, but always, all the roses in the house (if there are any) are turned black.

So now that all that (trope ridden) fluff is out of the way, onto the build (which is horribly underplanned) She is a Tiefling Binder, who moonlights as an assassin (she doesnt get paid for this) and takes out nobles who were involved in her family's death. Other than Binder ive got nothing. The Vestiges i plan on using most are: Andromalius, Karsus, Paimon, Malphas, and eventually Marchosias.

So any advice you can give to a first time Binder would be wonderful as well as any build advice.

[Venger]

read the handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11235.0)

make sure you get online vestiges (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070718) zceryll alone bumps you up a tier.

and familiarize yourself with your spell list (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9094.0) the most amazingly useful and frustratingly difficult to find resource on the binder (and any summoner in general) that provides an exhaustive use of every single spell and SLA you have access to.

[Blackhawk748]

read the handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11235.0)

make sure you get online vestiges (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070718) zceryll alone bumps you up a tier.

and familiarize yourself with your spell list (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9094.0) the most amazingly useful and frustratingly difficult to find resource on the binder (and any summoner in general) that provides an exhaustive use of every single spell and SLA you have access to.

Wow, that will be helpful when im in a tight spot. Nothing quite as awesome as summoning my own backup.

[Venger]

Wow, that will be helpful when im in a tight spot. Nothing quite as awesome as summoning my own backup.

Yeah, it's pretty handy. That should about cover you as far as playing binder goes. it's a pretty fun class and it's hard to screw it up too badly no matter what you do

[Blackhawk748]

Yeah, it's pretty handy. That should about cover you as far as playing binder goes. it's a pretty fun class and it's hard to screw it up too badly no matter what you do

Thats what ive always heard, bodes well for me trying to make an Assassin.

[Venger]

Thats what ive always heard, bodes well for me trying to make an Assassin.

it's a bit of a wait, but marchosias has you covered.

depending on the op lvl of your game and when you're starting, you might consider shape soulmeld (kruthik claws) or dipping totemist. it really improves your versatility a lot and boosts hide/ms, which binder does not have as class skills.

[Blackhawk748]

it's a bit of a wait, but marchosias has you covered.

depending on the op lvl of your game and when you're starting, you might consider shape soulmeld (kruthik claws) or dipping totemist. it really improves your versatility a lot and boosts hide/ms, which binder does not have as class skills.

That.... seems like a great idea, it fits how she acts and it would be kinda awesome to have a weapon no one can find.

[Venger]

That.... seems like a great idea, it fits how she acts and it would be kinda awesome to have a weapon no one can find.

good. I love incarnum. here's the totemist handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2943.0)

here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=11937177&postcount=2) is a list of totemist's melds broken down by what chakra they're shaped to. what I believe to be MoI's gravest flaw is its horrible organization. the melds are NOT broken up by list, but are all jumbled together in alphabetical order, making it really difficult to find anything.

here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=11937168&postcount=1) is the incarnate meld list if you find that you like its melds better. there is one notable error: the lucky dice offer a luck bonus, which does NOT stack with itself as shneeky says, but it is otherwise correct.

here (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1041916) is a link to "incarnate by the numbers" which explains how effective incarnate is at boosting your skills for skillmonkey types, even with just a level or two.

incarnate handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=580.0) too. personally, I like Evil incarnate best since it lets you do all the necrocarnum melds and focuses on boosting melee damage, which I find the most useful, especially on a brute binder focusing on chupoclops, andras, and power attacking with a lance a lot. plus an Evil incarnate might fit well fluffwise with a binder assassin type character.

there are a half-dozen or so draconic melds, available in "dragon magic" that are not mentioned in any of the above guides, but they're mostly pretty cool. there are a handful of psionic melds as well, mostly pasta of normal ones with one (very important) new one: the astral vambraces in the back of magic of incarnum, so go ahead and check that out too.

incarnate and totemist are highly dip friendly, so either one should fit with you pretty well, but totemist boosts hide/ms, and incarnate does not due to their separate lists, just for reference.

[WhamBamSam]

it's a bit of a wait, but marchosias has you covered.

depending on the op lvl of your game and when you're starting, you might consider shape soulmeld (kruthik claws) or dipping totemist. it really improves your versatility a lot and boosts hide/ms, which binder does not have as class skills.Kruthik Claws (like most Totemist soulmelds) give competence bonuses, which means they won't stack with Marchosias' hide bonus. A Totemist or Incarnate dip still might not be a bad idea though. If you don't mind being an Evil Incarnate, the Tiefling RSLs are quite good.

In a similar vein, you could take Martial Study (Cloak of Deception) to get hide as a class skill and the ability to go invisible 1/encounter as a swift action.

[Blackhawk748]

Kruthik Claws (like most Totemist soulmelds) give competence bonuses, which means they won't stack with Marchosias' hide bonus. A Totemist or Incarnate dip still might not be a bad idea though. If you don't mind being an Evil Incarnate, the Tiefling RSLs are quite good.

In a similar vein, you could take Martial Study (Cloak of Deception) to get hide as a class skill and the ability to go invisible 1/encounter as a swift action.

Well the Martial Study definitely makes the list now. I NEED MORE FEATS! :smalleek: I think 2 levels of totemist are a good thing, even though the bonus from the claws doesnt stack with Marchiosias. Then again he shows up a bit late and the claws bonus can cover me till then, even barring that 1d6 damage plus a few d4 acid isnt to bad.

[Venger]

Kruthik Claws (like most Totemist soulmelds) give competence bonuses, which means they won't stack with Marchosias' hide bonus. A Totemist or Incarnate dip still might not be a bad idea though. If you don't mind being an Evil Incarnate, the Tiefling RSLs are quite good.

In a similar vein, you could take Martial Study (Cloak of Deception) to get hide as a class skill and the ability to go invisible 1/encounter as a swift action.

right, but I'm not sure what level he's starting at. if he's not high enough to whip out marchosias right away, kruthik claws might be a good stopgap if he starts at low lvls and is playing a game that won't go all the way through to 11.

lesser tiefling evil incarnate is my jam.

that's a good idea as well. might go well in tandem with a mid lvl 2 lvl swordsage dip around 7ish or so if he doesn't want to meldshape.

[Blackhawk748]

that's a good idea as well. might go well in tandem with a mid lvl 2 lvl swordsage dip around 7ish or so if he doesn't want to meldshape.

Didnt even think of this, Shadow hand has enough fun stuff to occupy most of my Maneuvers Known, and of course Assassin's Stance gives me more Sneak Attack.

So its looking kinda like this right now (note these are not in order) Totemist 2/Swordsage 2/Binder 16. Ill probably do TWF with Daggers or my Kruthik claws, always be in Assassins Stance and most likely have Shadow Jaunt and Shadow Garrote, maybe a few Setting Sun maneuvers (who doesnt like chucking people?)

Well this is gonna be fun, im using three classes ive never used before to play a concept i play a lot.

[Venger]

Didnt even think of this, Shadow hand has enough fun stuff to occupy most of my Maneuvers Known, and of course Assassin's Stance gives me more Sneak Attack.

So its looking kinda like this right now (note these are not in order) Totemist 2/Swordsage 2/Binder 16. Ill probably do TWF with Daggers or my Kruthik claws, always be in Assassins Stance and most likely have Shadow Jaunt and Shadow Garrote, maybe a few Setting Sun maneuvers (who doesnt like chucking people?)

Well this is gonna be fun, im using three classes ive never used before to play a concept i play a lot.

take your swordsage levels at levels 9 and 10. the way your multiclass IL works is initiating classes give you 1 level, non initiating levels give you 1/2. this gives you an IL of
5 at level 9, letting you pick up 3rds as your first maneuvers known.

I'd probably advise binder as your first couple levels because its list is better than totemist's which really sucks.

something like binder 1/totemist 2/binder 6/swordsage 2/binder 16

If you like setting sun, check out the sphinx claws, which boost your str checks. the hand bind even gives you pounce, meaning you don't need chupoclops as much, freeing up a 6th for zceryll.

[ben-zayb]

As an alternative suggestion, the Guerilla Warrior feat from Heroes of Battle lessens your light/medium armor ACP by 1. More importantly, it makes ranks in Hide and Move Silently always cost 1 skill point (instead of 2 skill points if cross class).

If you can manage to take a dip on a class with Hide or Move Silently as class skills, that'd make it far better (by far, I meant by 12 ranks).

EDIT: Actually, even though they are replaced by class levels, shouldn't the Tiefling RHD make your maximum ranks in Hide equal to HD+3?