Warforged Juggernaut, "Necromancy Effects"

[Iron Angel]

Warforged Juggernaut gains immunity to "Necromancy Effects" at the 4th level of the class. What exactly does that mean? Is it all spells from the Necromancy school? Does this also include Negative Energy dealing damage? The wording is kind of vague and I was hoping for a clarification.

[Venger]

Warforged Juggernaut gains immunity to "Necromancy Effects" at the 4th level of the class. What exactly does that mean? Is it all spells from the Necromancy school? Does this also include Negative Energy dealing damage? The wording is kind of vague and I was hoping for a clarification.

You are immune to all spells from the necromancy school.

It does not include unrelated negative energy effects. If someone cast inflict x wounds, you're immune, but if it's a different thing, you have no special immunity through racial abilities or through any of your construct perfection abilities.

[Iron Angel]

So the perpetual negative energy damage from, say, standing on Atropus does not qualify as necromancy?

[Venger]

So the perpetual negative energy damage from, say, standing on Atropus does not qualify as necromancy?

That is correct. It is neither a spell nor a SLA, so it's not keyed to a school and is not subject to your immunity.

[Iron Angel]

Good to know, thanks! Glad I cleared this up before this information became important and I'm sucking down negative energy damage because I was wrong about something.

[Venger]

Good to know, thanks! Glad I cleared this up before this information became important and I'm sucking down negative energy damage because I was wrong about something.

I remember you. I posted heavily in that thread. Good luck with Atropus.

[AnonymousPepper]

Yeah, you need something that confers Death Ward for that. Either a magic item of it or a Soulfire ASA applied to like a bracer or something, I think.

Although I'm on record as saying that Soulfire armor of some sort is an absolute necessity for any mid to high level PC that can afford it anyway.

[Venger]

Yeah, you need something that confers Death Ward for that. Either a magic item of it or a Soulfire ASA applied to like a bracer or something, I think.

Although I'm on record as saying that Soulfire armor of some sort is an absolute necessity for any mid to high level PC that can afford it anyway.

It will absolutely pay for itself if you're aiming to kill Atropos. Just pop it on your adamantine body and you'll be all good.

[AnonymousPepper]

Incidentally, if you're wondering about the sourcebook of it, it's in the Book of Exalted Deeds (in fact, the BoED is very early 3.5, so it's significantly older than ECS!). Which has the nice side effect of making it setting-universal and thus perfectly kosher on Eberron. +4 ASA, shields and armor, requires Death Ward, forget what the CL is. Very expensive - that's almost as much as Proof against Transmutation or Time Buttress - but beyond worth it, since the effect is protection from all negative energy and [Death] effects. Handy for tanking Avasculates and Fingers of Death and the like without having to worry about anything short of a Disjunction.

[Venger]

Incidentally, if you're wondering about the sourcebook of it, it's in the Book of Exalted Deeds (in fact, the BoED is very early 3.5, so it's significantly older than ECS!). Which has the nice side effect of making it setting-universal and thus perfectly kosher on Eberron. +4 ASA, shields and armor, requires Death Ward, forget what the CL is. Very expensive - that's almost as much as Proof against Transmutation or Time Buttress - but beyond worth it, since the effect is protection from all negative energy and [Death] effects. Handy for tanking Avasculates and Fingers of Death and the like without having to worry about anything short of a Disjunction.

the CL, as is standard, is 7, the minimum level required to cast death ward, (normally) a 4th level spell.

it isn't especially expensive since you only need a net +5 bonus in toto, meaning an expenditure of 25k, 1k for the +1, 24k for the soulfire, a +4 equivalency, since OP's a warforged and didn't need to sink in the ~2300gp seed money into buying a set of full plate. at the level that energy drain, death, etc becomes something you must always have on, you can definitely afford it, especially since, as a WFJ, he's saving money by not buying a ton of other defensive items.

In general, soulfire is a good thing for basically any character to have, but I'm not sure about its usefulness here.

soulfire offers immunity to: death spells, magical death effects, and energy drain, and any negative energy effects

OP is immune to death spells and all death effects from construct perfection, and energy drain by virtue of the living construct subtype. the only thing he's missing is protection from negative energy.

Since I know the DM's letting him retool himself to have adamantine body retroactively instead of how the rules normally work, I have a slightly different idea:

If your DM will allow you to take tomb-tainted soul, you will be healed by negative energy and harmed by positive energy. construct perfection will make you immune to conjuration (healing) subschool spells like cure x wounds, but in the case that you need some healing, lesser vigor still works normally on you.

since you're not fighting morrigna, but atropos, you're unlikely to run into other sources of positive energy just floating around, so I think this might be useful for you.

anyway, atropus's negative energy field doesn't dish out negative energy damage like the negative energy plane, it just gives you negative levels, which as a warforged juggernaut, you're immune to. so either way, it appears you don't actually need soulfire armor as badly as normal, but if you can afford it, think about picking it up.

[AnonymousPepper]

Honestly, I just forgot what Atropus' thing was. It's been a bit of a long time since I cracked open EE.

However, even though he's immune to the field, I would HIGHLY suggest that any other of his party members that might not also be Warforged Juggernauts grab Soulfire. Even classes that can't get it on armor because proficiency issues (then again, really, is twilight mithral chain that hard to get? come on!) can still get it on a Bracer of Armor.

[Venger]

Honestly, I just forgot what Atropus' thing was. It's been a bit of a long time since I cracked open EE.

However, even though he's immune to the field, I would HIGHLY suggest that any other of his party members that might not also be Warforged Juggernauts grab Soulfire. Even classes that can't get it on armor because proficiency issues (then again, really, is twilight mithral chain that hard to get? come on!) can still get it on a Bracer of Armor.

yes, that still absolutely applies. I'm not sure what the rest of his party's playing, but soulfire will still help them out.

[Chronos]

Warforged aren't actually immune to negative levels. They're immune to energy drain, which is the most common cause of negative levels, such as the ones from the Aspect of Atropus' slams, but the negative energy aura isn't actually energy drain.

[Iron Angel]

the CL, as is standard, is 7, the minimum level required to cast death ward, (normally) a 4th level spell.

it isn't especially expensive since you only need a net +5 bonus in toto, meaning an expenditure of 25k, 1k for the +1, 24k for the soulfire, a +4 equivalency, since OP's a warforged and didn't need to sink in the ~2300gp seed money into buying a set of full plate. at the level that energy drain, death, etc becomes something you must always have on, you can definitely afford it, especially since, as a WFJ, he's saving money by not buying a ton of other defensive items.

In general, soulfire is a good thing for basically any character to have, but I'm not sure about its usefulness here.

soulfire offers immunity to: death spells, magical death effects, and energy drain, and any negative energy effects

OP is immune to death spells and all death effects from construct perfection, and energy drain by virtue of the living construct subtype. the only thing he's missing is protection from negative energy.

Since I know the DM's letting him retool himself to have adamantine body retroactively instead of how the rules normally work, I have a slightly different idea:

If your DM will allow you to take tomb-tainted soul, you will be healed by negative energy and harmed by positive energy. construct perfection will make you immune to conjuration (healing) subschool spells like cure x wounds, but in the case that you need some healing, lesser vigor still works normally on you.

since you're not fighting morrigna, but atropos, you're unlikely to run into other sources of positive energy just floating around, so I think this might be useful for you.

anyway, atropus's negative energy field doesn't dish out negative energy damage like the negative energy plane, it just gives you negative levels, which as a warforged juggernaut, you're immune to. so either way, it appears you don't actually need soulfire armor as badly as normal, but if you can afford it, think about picking it up.

The surface of the moonlet counts as a lesser negative-dominant plane, essentially dealing 1d6 points of negative energy damage per round.

I'm not really looking to twink in any sense. Something something stormwind fallacy, but I can't find a good reason for my character to have a feat like Tomb-Tainted Soul. Its actually not Eberron, but a standard setting. I wasn't even going to play a warforged originally but the DM overheard me talking about how I liked playing warforged because they have such interesting characters, compared to the mindless robots everyone always assumes they are. They are alien, psychologically, but certainly not soulless robots. He told me to story up a way to get a warforged into a standard campaign setting so I did. I'm a creation of a race from another plane who were masters of fusing magic and technology, and I got transported to a forest in the current game world, by myself, and have been wandering the wilderness for unknown years, slowly losing my memories until everything I know is basically summarized as wandering the forest looking for something that I don't even know what it is any more. The party finds me and agrees to help me search, and thats how I got embroiled in things.

As a result, my character doesnt really look anything like a normal warforged:
http://i.imgur.com/2bItpH6.png

If you're up for a bit of reading I wrote it all out.
THE CELIAN

The Celian are a tall and slender race, particularly gifted with the more mental arts of magic and engineering. They are able to blend the two seamlessly, creating a sprawling, wondrous city powered by magic, floating in the void of their plane. At he head of the Celian were Celes and Cian, two godlike entities who were brothers and uplifted the Celian, who took their name after their gods. Celes was the god of Magic, and Cian the god of Technology; Their teachings showed that one without the other was strong, but the two working together were the secret to unfathomable greatness. Together, Celes and Cian produced the Worldstone, the source of all of the city's power.

THE DIVIDE

As eons passed and the Celian prospered, dissent grew between Celes and Cian. Those two gods who had once worked together so profoundly began to hold the other in contempt, seeing themself as the superior, with the other as little more that a supplement to their own power. Tension grew, and the Celian were unable to end the quarrel. Finally, in their own throne room, surrounded by hundreds of their people, they lashed out at one another. As the smoke form the destructive force of that single outburst faded, Celes and Cian looked upon the hundreds of charred bodies that surrounded them. Cian knelt at the sight, and wept at his arrogance. Celes looked on in horror, growing enraged. He blamed Cian, and struck him down while he knelt over the bodies of their victims.

THE SOULS IN THE STONE

Cian, as a final act, sealed Celes within the Worldstone. Celes fought, but was not able to escape his prison, the demigod's soul trapped forever within. Cian perished shortly after on the steps before the stone. Both were mourned, but it was a cautionary tale of arrogance and disharmony for all of the Celians.

THE ETHEREAL MIST

Celian souls are not full individuals. They share great empathy, because all Celian souls are bonded. When a Celian is born, its soul is plucked from the Ethereal Mist, a congealment of Celian souls that exists around the city. When a Celian dies, its "soul" forgets specific experiences, and only remembers hazy general emotions. When a Celian is born, their personality is shaped by the emotional memory of the soul.

THE ANIMA

One of the Celian's creations was another race called the Anima. Designed to do the things the Celians could not, they were gentle, practical, and extremely physically imposing. A perfect blend of magic and technology, their bodies were made from Mithril, and powered by the "ethereal mist" itself, the ether the souls themselves "swim" in after death and before birth. Therefore, though the Anima are not powered by actual souls, they pick up personality traits and quirks from this ethereal plasma, and are fully sentient and intelligent. The fact that the Ether is so pliable and able to accept and process information is what makes the Anima so remarkably similar to the souls of living creatures. For all intents and purposes, they are alive, magical properties binding the ether to their bodies until the body is wholly destroyed. At the heart of each Anima is an Etherstone, a crystalline computer and magical focus that contains and controls the forces that hold the body and the ether united.

THE SLOW DESCENT

Madness is never sudden. In the wave of despair following the loss of Celes and Cian, the lack of a guiding force led the naive but hopeful Celian down darker paths. The manipulation of souls was the main focus of much of this harrowing journey. The first attempts were just to trap actual souls inside of the Etherstones. When it was discovered it was possible, things became much worse. It was thought that Anima could be powered by souls, providing larger populations and more intelligent Anima workers; Though the Ether powered Anima were intelligent andd strong, they were still very limited. Soul-powered Anima would be much better. Every result, however, was a catastrophic failure. The Anima would quickly go insane and have to be destroyed. Never a people to give up, the Celian continued practicing, until they finally got the technology to work in the form of the Tesseracts. These devices harnessed the magical potential of multiple planes and realities simultaneously to direct and control the soul; Each one was built around a Soulstone, an Etherstone specifically designed to hold a soul. The soul would go insane, as usual, but the Tesseract could force it to obey commands.

THE DARK BOTTOM

Once this magic was perfected, society began taking a turn for the worse. The souls in the soulstones polluted the Ether with negative emotions, which slowly turned new souls fearful and angry. What was once a bastion of peace and harmony slowly turned into a fearful prison for the Celian. As the practitioners of magic and technology grew more depraved, they turned their lustful gaze upon the Worldstone itself...

BENDING GODS

The Worldstone had sat unmolested for millenia, powering everything. But the Celians, now drunk on power, wanted more. They remembered the old god trapped within it, and they wanted it. A special soulstone was crafted, with a unique and extremely powerful tesseract built around it, and placed in the body of an otherwise ordinary Anima, refitted and refocused to accept the embodiment of a god. Then, they set about their work. They approached the massive worldstone, and delicately etched out a large piece with which to study. As the final hammer blow rang out, severing the chunk from the rest of the stone, the entire Worldstone cracked. They watched in horror as the Worldstone shattered into thousands of chunks. They quickly engineered a way to continue powering the city from the pieces, but with the worldstone fragmented, everyone wanted their own piece of it. One large piece was spirited away, and it was discovered through magical divinations and examination that the soul of Celes resided in the stone still. They prepared the rituals and equipment, and siphoned as much of the soul as they could fit into the Anima.

A GOD REBORN

When the Anima awoke, its Etherstone, a backup just in case, was the first to activate. The Anima sat up and regarded them. Those in the room noticied immediately that its behavior was not normal; It was not indifferent and bitter, as other Anima had become with the gradual poisoning of the ether. It regarded them practically and positively. When they told him to release the power of the Soulstone, however, things became much different.

Celes had been driven completely insane by his imprisonment, capable of feeling only hatred and betrayal. The Anima's very appearance warped to reflect the wrath of the maddened god trapped inside him, his glimmering mithril body darkening as if charred, his single eye focusing into a pinprick of baleful light. Bolts of arcane energy coursed across his body, arcing over his form, and he shrieked in rage, a skull-splitting metallic scream that shook the walls. Those around him cowered in terror, but it did not lash out at them as they had expected all too late. Instead, it fought to maintain control, and after a short time, the powerful Tesseract collapsed the energy field the soulstone was producing and subdued it completely, the enraged spirit exhausted. The hole in the Anima's chest still smoking, it gazed at them in terror.

"This was a mistake," it told them, but they ignored it, celebrating their success. All but one. They caged the Anima to run further tests on it, but that night, someone broke into the dungeon. The Anima regarded the Celian apprehensively, and she withdrew her hood to reveal herself as one of the most influential Anima crafters alive. She cast a spell to unlock the thick door. The Anima was unsure how to respond. "Thank you," was the only phrase he could think of.

She smiled at him. "Gratitude is not something experienced often any more. I suspect there is a great deal more to you than we realize."

"This was a mistake," the Anima repeated, pointing at his chest.

She nodded grimly. "Yes, it was. But we can't destroy it, not here. That would release a part of Celes back into the world, an event that would prove apocalyptic. We need to put the soul BACK into the worldstone, and I think I know how."

She hurriedly escorted him back to the room he had been created in, and pried back the metal plate containing the Soulstone.

"Will I die?" the Anima asked.

She shook her head. "Of course not. You will be fine."

She hoped it was true.

The Anima laid back, knowing what had to be done. As she reached inside to remove the Soulstone, however, she was pulled back by an unseen force. They had been caught, and she was now held captive by another Celian. The Anima watched as she was thrown to the floor, and as her captor drew his blade to destroy her, the Anima felt his anger and rage welling up inside. The Tesseract could not contain this fury forever.

The Anima stood from the table, and the Celian ordered him to stand down. The Anima's skin boiled and blackened, and bolts of hateful energy arced across his body. The celian watched in terror as the colossal construct grabbed him by the throat, lifted him into the air, and thrust him into the stone wall directly in front of him. He felt the Celian's bones shatter and its body fall limp as it helplessly fluttered to the floor. Jarred, the Anima swiftly regained control, his rage swifly giving way to terror, and looked down at the woman who was saving him, a sword penetrating from her stomach.

"We have to leave," he told her. The doors crashed down, and she grabbed the large chunk of the Worldstone on the table, screaming. She thrust it at the Anima's chest, and in a flash of bright light, everything spun around them.

The Anima adjusted to the light; It was bright, and quiet. Green plants surrounded him, with large, tall brown stalks that branched out towering over him. The entire room had been teleported, including several body parts from Celians who had only half entered, but everything was scattered over a large area. He looked to the ground and saw his savior, caughing, as she looked up at him. He knelt over her, panicking, unsure what to do.

"You truly are special," she said to him. "You can control it. We never thought you could control it."

"But why was I able to then?" he asked.

"Because... We thought we had resurrected one god. In fact... We had resurrected... Two..."

She fell limp, and the Anima shook with anger and sadness. He roared in despair, and spent a few moments in sorrow. He looked around the debris from the room he was in; This is where his abilities were to be tested. He hefted a large pole with a large metal octahedron at one end, and determined it was a suitable weapon. He buried the doctor in the forest, a large, unmarked stone monolith guarding her grave, keeping only her shawl as a reminder. He decided that he would use his power to save his home, but wondered what her talk of gods meant- Especially the last part. As he pondered how to get back from this strange realm, he remembered the large piece of the Worldstone- It had brought him here. Perhaps it could take him back. As he pored over the wreckage, it became apparent it was not there. It was impossible for it to not have come with them, however. He could feel it. He knew it was somewhere. He would conquer this power inside him and discover the truth of his origins, and rescue the Celians from their madness. He wrapped the doctor's shawl about his shoulders, and wandered into the wilderness, determined to find a way back home.

THE TRUTH OF THE REVENANT

The soulstone contains only a small piece of Celes; The larger chunk that came with the Anima contains a much more potent dose. Controlled by the Tesseract device, the soul of Celes in the Revenant is contained and relatively stable. However, the large piece has no such restraints, and if it were to be tampered with by someone with no idea what they are dealing with, could have terrible results.

There is an opposite side to this coin, however. When Cian died, his soul became part of the Ethereal Mist, as any Celian soul would. However, his large and powerful soul dissolved into the Ether, forming a bright spot in a slowly darkening world. Unfortunately, like any Celian soul, it has forgotten everything, and is simply the embodiment of Cian's ingenuity, force of will, and strength of mind. The Etherstone that composes the Revenant's being when he is not overcome by that tiny portion of Celes is, in fact, a tiny portion of Cian. In this sense, the Revenant's name is very apt- He is the wandering spirit that has brought two gods together in one body, and his existence is the vessel they must work together in- One whose knowledge has drifted away with death, and the other whose madness has consumed them so much it no longer matters what they once were.

Both aspects are aware at all times, but only one is ever in control at once, and neither are individuals any longer, but rather two sides of the same coin. One aspect can fight the other down; The Revenant's primal rage can become so overwhelming that it overpowers his more practical and calm demeanor, but he can force this fury back into its cage if he is desperate enough. Even though his rage is insane, the Revenant is not stupid, and while his fury may cause him to attack and kill a subdued foe, it does not generally drive him to attack an ally.

However, neither of these aspects are, alone, possessing of enough qualities to really make them their own beings any more. They each lack fundamental properties of a sentient creature. It is only the fusion of the two, and their tentative cooperation, that makes Revenant a fully aware, sentient individual. As time has gone on, the line between the two has blurred significantly, and they are, in all effects, the same being, with two very different sides, and this is what makes the Revenant who he is.

THE FATE OF THE CELIAN

In the innumberable years that have passed, the once-proud Celian empire is all but destroyed. Its people have fallen to madness and squalor, governed by greed and ruled by those who keep the secrets of magic and technology, once freely given, to themselves.

[Venger]

ok, all the more reason to TTS.

I mentioned it because, as a WFJ, you're immune to conjuration (healing) stuff (e.g. cure x wounds) so you wouldn't be missing out on anything, plus this way, atropus's moonlet would effectively give you fast healing, which'd be pretty cool.

uh, you're playing melee, no one's gonna accuse you of "powergaming" or "rollplaying" or whatever other nonsense stormwinders do. certainly not me, anyway.

anyway, use it, don't use it, it's up to you, I just thought I'd mention it since I know about your special circumstances from your "barbarian with casting" thread and thought it'd be a good fit.

I like warforged too for the same reasons. It's great that you did so much to make your guy your own.

From your backstory, you have a great deal in common with G3 transformers' religion/history/creation mythology. you should check out "beast wars."

if you'd prefer soulfire, that's fine too if you can afford it, plus you'll have another feat open. it's probably a good idea since there's plenty of non-energy drain negative levels out there to pick on warforged.

[Iron Angel]

Our gm is also not terribly experienced, so he sees me cranking out 100+ damage a round while raging and is very unhappy about it, especially considering I am outstripping everyone else in the party in terms of damage by miles (which is kind of what Barbarians do). We're still level 8 so we haven't hit the point where being melee is a death sentence yet, so I'm sort of playing it cool until that time comes. I'm dreading having to try to fight Atropus by running into his face, but warforged juggernaut goes a long way to neuter the worst of his melee threat. Now I just need to figure out how to hit 43 AC consistently so I can knock it down before it wipes us...

The rest of the party is a Fighter, a Knight, a Spellthief, and a Warlock. The Warlock is undead (necropolitan or something), the rest are humans.

[atemu1234]

You are immune to all spells from the necromancy school.

It does not include unrelated negative energy effects. If someone cast inflict x wounds, you're immune, but if it's a different thing, you have no special immunity through racial abilities or through any of your construct perfection abilities.

Makes me wonder, is a dead one immune to Animate Dead?

[Iron Angel]

Makes me wonder, is a dead one immune to Animate Dead?

Depends, are undead Warforged a thing to begin with? Can they BE undead?

[Venger]

Makes me wonder, is a dead one immune to Animate Dead?

Yes. Even if you don't believe characters retain their class features once gaining the "dead" condition, animate dead cannot be cast on warforged because they:
1) do not have skeletons, so are ineligible for either the zombie or skeleton template
2) do not leave a corpse when they reach -10 hit points since they are "destroyed" like constructs and not "killed" like normal people


Depends, are undead Warforged a thing to begin with? Can they BE undead?

Yes, they just cannot be reanimated as such by animate dead, CU, CGU. if they were, say, killed by a creature that had a create spawn ability and did not specify a creature type it affected, then it would rise as one of those as per normal.

[sisima70]

According to Races of Eberron, warforged cannot be undead, and they don't go to Dolurrth when they die. This is listed on page 16, in the sidebar "The Question of Souls"

On that note, Kaith Barker states that he would consider a warforged paladin proof that warforged have souls. In Five Nations (written by Bill Slavisek, David Noonan and Cristopher Perkins) on page 59, there is a warforged paladin called Three.

[torrasque666]

According to Races of Eberron, warforged cannot be undead, and they don't go to Dolurrth when they die. This is listed on page 16, in the sidebar "The Question of Souls"

On that note, Kaith Barker states that he would consider a warforged paladin proof that warforged have souls. In Five Nations (written by Bill Slavisek, David Noonan and Cristopher Perkins) on page 59, there is a warforged paladin called Three.
Apparently unlike a Warforged Juggernaut, this thread is not immune to Necromancy.

[Chambers]

Apparently unlike a Warforged Juggernaut, this thread is not immune to Necromancy.

Mod of the Broken Pattern: Indeed. We shall seal away the undead creature it has become for all time. Thread Locked.