Arcane spells without levels in spellcaster class?

[LentilNinja]

I'm trying to find ways for classes like Warlock to get into PrCs that say "ability to cast 2 level spells" like Eldritch Knight, Noctumancer or Anima Mage to advance Warlock instead of a caster. While I could just dip into a caster and then take Precocious Apprentice, I want to see if theres any in-game alternatives. So far this has been looking bleak but I have a couple of questions for how to do this:

1. Precocious Apprentice (should it be allowed to qualify for 2nd level spell entry) says "arcane caster level 1st, Spellcasting ability (Int or Cha) 15". Now while I'd say Warlock counts as an "arcane caster", the Spellcasting ability part seems more ambiguous. Charisma doesn't grant him bonus spells or such but does affect the DCs. Thoughts?

2. Sand Shaper gives a bunch of spells to a character. Could they then count as knowing 1st level Arcane spells thus get in? Probably not but thoughts?

3. Any other ways of doing this?

[Grim Reader]

Nosomatic Chirurgeon (sp) is probably the closest to what you want.

1: Precocious Apprentice does not normally qualify for PrCs. However, you can do similar shenanigans with a feat that lets you cast a few cantrips, and Practiced Spellcaster/Heighten Spell/Versatile Spellcaster.

2: Of the top of my head, I believe you have to be a spont caster to get them as spells known. Upside is that they are added to any spont list.

[Inevitability]

Magical Training (PGtF) can be combined with Precocious Apprentice for a free 2nd-level spell on each human/elf character you make. You could slap a Faustian Pact on top of that for more slots.

[LentilNinja]

Nosomatic Chirurgeon (sp) is probably the closest to what you want.

It would work, but theres a lot of fluff behind it and seems feat and fluff extensive. Hard to work into any character in front of a DM.


Magical Training (PGtF) can be combined with Precocious Apprentice for a free 2nd-level spell on each human/elf character you make.

I could only see this working on a Human (since Precocious Apprentice requires you to be a 1st level character) and thus only limits this combo to Humans. Thats not bad, but its restrictive.

I may be asking too much for any forms of alternative but if these are the only ways then they'll do. I think it is too much of a request to ask. Still, I'm wondering about Precocious Apprentice granting a Warlock / other "arcane caster" (lets say Shadowcaster) a 2nd level spell slot. It says to choose a spell from a spell school you know or something, but doesn't that just mean one that isn't banned to you?

But at any rate, I really appreciate the help guys :)

[Rubik]

The convert spell-to-power erudite can learn arcane spells as psionic powers. With the proper application of the Magic Mantle, geomancer, and the Southern Magician feat, you should be able to manifest them as arcane and divine spells both.

Also, archivist + Southern Magician will let you learn arcane spells as divine spells and cast them as arcane spells.

Beholder mage gives an arcane spellcasting progression. Use it wisely.

[Sian]

a race with Caster Levels ...

[Rubik]

Three levels in illithid savant can grant you full progression in an arcane spellcasting class, but only if you can manage to eat the brain of a high level caster.

Which is easier said than done, unless you know someone willing to make an ice assassin or a simulacrum for you or summon/call in a casting critter for you to eat.

[Bad Wolf]

I do remember being a heavily Munchkined way that a fighter got nineth level spells via a complicated branch of feats with no arcane casting levels. Might be applicable if I can find it.

[Inevitability]

II could only see this working on a Human (since Precocious Apprentice requires you to be a 1st level character) and thus only limits this combo to Humans. Thats not bad, but its restrictive.

Flaws: solving your feat trouble since 2004. Or just make a Faustian Pact.

[ben-zayb]

A Warlock dip with Summon Swarms, combined with the BoVD version of Dark Speech, will arguably give your hivemind Sorcerer casting. Some people do abuse this for up to 84th level Sorcerer casting with 5000 members of the hivemind, although IIRC BoVD has their hivemind limited to 100 members only.

[LentilNinja]

Three levels in illithid savant can grant you full progression in an arcane spellcasting class, but only if you can manage to eat the brain of a high level caster.

That can work should I play a Mind Flayer.


I do remember being a heavily Munchkined way that a fighter got nineth level spells via a complicated branch of feats with no arcane casting levels. Might be applicable if I can find it.

If I could be shown it, I'd love to see that :P


Flaws: solving your feat trouble since 2004. Or just make a Faustian Pact.

Flaws are usually banned. A Faustian Pact could work, though.


A Warlock dip with Summon Swarms, combined with the BoVD version of Dark Speech, will arguably give your hivemind Sorcerer casting.

Not too sure what you mean by this one, I'll go look into Hivemind. :)

[Venger]

That can work should I play a Mind Flayer.
no, they have an unworkable ECL. the traditional solution is PaO abuse.



If I could be shown it, I'd love to see that :P
ask and you shall receive (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=8753936&postcount=35)




Flaws are usually banned. A Faustian Pact could work, though.
if your DM isn't allowing flaws, he's probably not gonna allow faustian pacts.


Not too sure what you mean by this one, I'll go look into Hivemind. :)

if you get enough vermin together, they develop spellcasting. this can be achieved via dark speech. the specifics are detailed in bovd page 34. the amount of vermin required is trivial, and you can start slinging around 10th+ lvl slots in almost no time at all.

[LentilNinja]

1. no, they have an unworkable ECL. the traditional solution is PaO abuse.
2. ask and you shall receive (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=8753936&postcount=35)
3. if your DM isn't allowing flaws, he's probably not gonna allow faustian pacts.
4.if you get enough vermin together, they develop spellcasting. this can be achieved via dark speech. the specifics are detailed in bovd page 34. the amount of vermin required is trivial, and you can start slinging around 10th+ lvl slots in almost no time at all.

1. PaO?
2. Doesn't specify what order, so I assume the Magical Training and Precocious Apprentice would be the 1st level feats?
3. Thats probably true, at least not early on anyway.
4. Interesting, but how can I get this from them and apply it to me?

[Venger]

1. PaO?
2. Doesn't specify what order, so I assume the Magical Training and Precocious Apprentice would be the 1st level feats?
3. Thats probably true, at least not early on anyway.
4. Interesting, but how can I get this from them and apply it to me?

1. polymorph any object (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorphAnyObject.htm)
2. yes it does. they are listed in order. that's why he makes a new line for every feat. yes, that's correct.
3. yeah.
4. ben-zayb mentioned warlock's summon swarm invocation, but really any reliable means of creating/summoning a swarm will work, such as spellcaster levels or a wand of same. once you get all the critters together, yell some dark speech at them and give them the power to cast spells, they'll do what you say since you're in control of the hivemind. if for whatever reason you wanted to control it directly, you could take vermin lord, but don't take vermin lord. it's the worst.

[ben-zayb]

1. PaO?
2. Doesn't specify what order, so I assume the Magical Training and Precocious Apprentice would be the 1st level feats?
3. Thats probably true, at least not early on anyway.
4. Interesting, but how can I get this from them and apply it to me?
Here (http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2388781)

@Venger Tried the method of Warlock because he was planning on using it anyway. XP

[LentilNinja]

1. polymorph any object (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorphAnyObject.htm)
2. yes it does. they are listed in order. that's why he makes a new line for every feat. yes, that's correct.
3. yeah.
4. ben-zayb mentioned warlock's summon swarm invocation, but really any reliable means of creating/summoning a swarm will work, such as spellcaster levels or a wand of same. once you get all the critters together, yell some dark speech at them and give them the power to cast spells, they'll do what you say since you're in control of the hivemind. if for whatever reason you wanted to control it directly, you could take vermin lord, but don't take vermin lord. it's the worst.

1. Oh, yeah.
2. Oh! My bad.
3. Indeed.
4. I didn't entirely understand the Summon Swarm bit, durr me. While I would then have a swarm that can cast spells, I'm not sure that'd fit the intended purpose of qualifying for prestige classes which need "ability to cast x spells" since its the swarm and not me. Still, thats a pretty awesome trick and I'll want to use it anyway :P

[Venger]

1. Oh, yeah.
2. Oh! My bad.
3. Indeed.
4. I didn't entirely understand the Summon Swarm bit, durr me. While I would then have a swarm that can cast spells, I'm not sure that'd fit the intended purpose of qualifying for prestige classes which need "ability to cast x spells" since its the swarm and not me. Still, thats a pretty awesome trick and I'll want to use it anyway :P

is there a specific class you're looking to enter? it might be easier for us to just help you into that.

[LentilNinja]

is there a specific class you're looking to enter? it might be easier for us to just help you into that.

A class like Eldritch Knight, Noctumancer, Anima Mage, or Cerebremancer to advance Warlock instead of a caster. While I could just dip into a caster and then take Precocious Apprentice, I want to see if theres any in-game alternatives.