Fastest way to kill the multiverse [3.5]

[Bad Wolf]

So I'm both deeply impressed and scared with the optimizing abilities of you guys on the forums, and wanted to propose this test.

You are a Chaotic Evil bastard who wakes up one morning and decides to end the world. How do you go about accomplishing this?

Here are the rules:
1: No Epic Spellcasting.

2:Pazuzu has been killed by a first level half-elf commoner. No more Pun-Pun. EDIT: Manipulate Form no longer exists after Pun-Pun obtained it and Ao decided to erase it from existence after destroying the kobold.

3: Ending the world is defined as killing everything in existence, bonus points if you destroy some planes. For the purpose of this, Ao (or some other overgod) and the Lady of Pain got bored and decided to create a world that doesn't have people trying to kill everything.

4: You have one free wish spell. EDIT: Can't wish for a Candle of Invocation.

GO!

[Douglas]

2:Pazuzu has been killed by a first level half-elf commoner. No more Pun-Pun.
That just means it takes longer (i.e. can't be done at level 1). The next fastest Pun-pun build I know of, which was the standard for quite a while, is level 5.

The actual linchpin of Pun-pun is the Manipulate Form ability of the Sarrukh monster, which can be acquired by the simple expedient of Shapechange given enough levels.

Edit: In fact, the free Wish spell from your last condition makes Pazuzu irrelevant - the only reason he mattered for Pun-pun in the first place was that he provided a way to get a single Wish at level 1.

[OldTrees1]

Well a Sphere of Annihilation into the Well of Worlds will explicitly destroy the Material Plane[Elder Evils] via a black hole. Any way to create portals that the black hole could pull the other planes through?

[Extra Anchovies]

Freeing Pandorym and letting it destroy the gods would be a good start. Removes most of the serious opposition right off the bat.

[Milodiah]

I'd suggest hiring a high-level party of adventurers to do the complete opposite, it'll wrap itself up quite nicely.

[Bad Wolf]

That just means it takes longer (i.e. can't be done at level 1). The next fastest Pun-pun build I know of, which was the standard for quite a while, is level 5.

The actual linchpin of Pun-pun is the Manipulate Form ability of the Sarrukh monster, which can be acquired by the simple expedient of Shapechange given enough levels.

Edit: In fact, the free Wish spell from your last condition makes Pazuzu irrelevant - the only reason he mattered for Pun-pun in the first place was that he provided a way to get a single Wish at level 1.

Good point. I think I might need to add a rule.

[Douglas]

Good point. I think I might need to add a rule.
Change rule 2 to state that the Manipulate Form ability does not exist (possibly in addition to what rule 2 already has). Anything short of that specific thing, and Pun-pun is still possible.

[Bad Wolf]

Oh, forgot about that.

[ninjamaster1991]

1) Use Wish to create a scroll of/wondrous item of/Summon or Bind a creature that can cast Gate
2) Gate in some statless eldrich horror from beyond the stars.

Gate only has a HD cap on controlling, not summoning, creatures. All you have to do is find a horror that would voluntarily enter the 20' portal and eat everything on the other side.

[Renen]

Turn the wish into a way to chain-gate things. Then chain-gate ALL the things, and tell em to destroy the universe.

Or have all those chain gates things each summon an eldrich horror as described above. Im sure theres a few million of them SOMEWHERE. And they all wanna eat worlds.

[Phelix-Mu]

Depending on how void damage is ruled and how gravitational collapse works, I give you the following.

Quoth the SRD:

Brown Mold (CR 2)

Brown mold feeds on warmth, drawing heat from anything around it. It normally comes in patches 5 feet in diameter, and the temperature is always cold in a 30-foot radius around it. Living creatures within 5 feet of it take 3d6 points of nonlethal cold damage. Fire brought within 5 feet of brown mold causes it to instantly double in size. Cold damage, such as from a cone of cold, instantly destroys it.

Emphasis mine.

So, for starters, the world is already overrun by brown mold when the game starts. Assuming a 5' patch can only double in size once per round (and mindful that that isn't what the text says), then round 1 gives us a two 5' square patches, second round four squares... 1024 squares after a minute...over a million squares after two minutes....

So, basically, the first time a commoner runs into a patch in the dark while carrying a torch, he falls unconscious almost immediately (probably before even realizing what is hurting him), drops the torch, and destroys most of the life on the planet (although it takes time for all of the unconscious creatures to starve to death).

In the bigger picture, if space doesn't deal cold damage, then the process could continue indefinitely, leading to gravitational collapse at some point. It's fairly likely the patch dies due to cold weather at some point, but it's probably killed almost every living creature without resistance to cold at that point.

So, yeah, apparently one of the reasons adventurers exist is to control brown mold explosions with frost rays and the like.

[Bad Wolf]

1) Use Wish to create a scroll of/wondrous item of/Summon or Bind a creature that can cast Gate
2) Gate in some statless eldrich horror from beyond the stars.

Gate only has a HD cap on controlling, not summoning, creatures. All you have to do is find a horror that would voluntarily enter the 20' portal and eat everything on the other side.

Remember, Wish is one notoriously tricky bastard. It might make a picture on a scroll of someone casting Gate.


Turn the wish into a way to chain-gate things. Then chain-gate ALL the things, and tell em to destroy the universe.

Or have all those chain gates things each summon an eldrich horror as described above. Im sure theres a few million of them SOMEWHERE. And they all wanna eat worlds.

Any specific eldritch horror from beyond time? Just saying one is sort of vague. Of course there might be a demon, for example, wearing a pink bowtie, but you can't really summon one without knowing specifically which demon it is.

[Flickerdart]

Remember, Wish is one notoriously tricky bastard. It might make a picture on a scroll of someone casting Gate.
That's only if you wish outside of the safe list. As a magic item, a scroll is allowed.

[Bad Wolf]

That's only if you wish outside of the safe list. As a magic item, a scroll is allowed.

Huh, must've misinterpreted the entry. Okay, that works, but it is unwise to summon beings that don't play by the laws of physics.

[Phelix-Mu]

Oh, can I be NE? Or TN? Cause I probably want a more serious attempt with druid of some kind, so CE is right out. But the free wish helps. I guess I could use the wish to mimic atonement to return to NE, but that seems wasteful.

Anyway, using brown mold shenanigans and green slime shenanigans, I'd probably do something like....

1.) PaO the mold and slime into trees.

2.) Awaken the mold and slime.

3.) Dispel the PaO effect.

4.) Buff the plants to remove their weaknesses (energy immunity, darkness effects, flight, etc).

5.) Use the brown mold to render unconscious anything not resistant to cold or immune to nonlethal damage in a matter of minutes.

6.) Use the green slime to dissolve anything not alive that isn't made of stone. This should deal with many constructs and undead, as they have little ability to resist the effect, and it will also make quick work of all the unconscious creatures.

7.) The green slime can likely be buffed high enough to now kill anything not immune to con damage. Unfortunately, it's hard to do much at this point, because the green slime description is terribly undeveloped. It's growth rate may have rendered most problems moot at this point, especially if we let it feed on some super-sized brown mold.

So, now everything is dead. If not, rinse and repeat.

[Forrestfire]

Character: 5th-level Psion with a bunch of Use Magic Device ranks.

I use my one free Wish for a Staff of Genesis, Planar Bubble, Plane Shift, and Teleport Through Time, with the Teleport Through Time's coordinates set to the dawn of creation. Cast genesis to create a plane with a slow time trait of 1:googol. After that, I use Forced Dream on my psicrystal and Time Hop it (using Planar Bubble to not get caught by the slow time effect).

5*googol rounds (or 3.4796 years, which is likely longer than the current amount of time to the present) into the future, the psicrystal comes out of Time Hop and uses its Forced Dream, resetting reality wholly to the time when the power was manifested: the dawn of time.

Paradox-free, too. Kinda. Teleport Through Time says that reality finds a way to exist, but changed to accommodate (such as rewriting someone's family line in the case of a grandfather paradox). However, you have managed to rewrite reality, effectively destroying the multiverse (albeit replacing it with another one).

[NichG]

The brown mold thing has the problem that its really hard to argue that the torch doesn't go out fairly quickly as the mold fills all immediately available space. The other thing that stops it is if you read the 'cold damage immediately destroys it' to apply to the entire patch at once, and not just a 5ft section, then the mold stops after it gets to be at most a few miles in radius since by that time the upper part of the mold patch will be hitting some pretty cold air. Still really awful, but at least it stops. Endure Elements maybe?

On the other hand, brown mold + a portal to the elemental plane of fire sounds like half of a solution. Maybe the other half is something that constantly chops up the mold into separate patches, so that a single point of cold damage doesn't end the process, or something that makes the mold immune to cold like giving it the [Cold] subtype? I think you can get that through a 6th level spell, so Wish should be able to provide that at least.

Edit: Also, wait. Did I just read that brown mold is instantly destroyed if it takes cold damage, and it deals cold damage to all living creatures around it? So basically, brown mold immediately commits suicide if there is ever more than one patch of it in the same place...

[Venger]

So I'm both deeply impressed and scared with the optimizing abilities of you guys on the forums, and wanted to propose this test.

You are a Chaotic Evil bastard who wakes up one morning and decides to end the world. How do you go about accomplishing this?

Here are the rules:
1: No Epic Spellcasting.

2:Pazuzu has been killed by a first level half-elf commoner. No more Pun-Pun. EDIT: Manipulate Form no longer exists after Pun-Pun obtained it and Ao decided to erase it from existence after destroying the kobold.

3: Ending the world is defined as killing everything in existence, bonus points if you destroy some planes. For the purpose of this, Ao (or some other overgod) and the Lady of Pain got bored and decided to create a world that doesn't have people trying to kill everything.

4: You have one free wish spell. EDIT: Can't wish for a Candle of Invocation.

GO!
>reads thread

All right, no one else said it yet:

1) be a level 1 dragonfire adept
2) take enlarge breath
3) stack it an arbitrary number of times
4) destroy the earth and kill everyone on its surface.

gain zillions of xp, level up a bunch of times, and brag to the monsters in the far realm about this one time you destroyed the world and how they totally should've been there once the directionless drift through space eventually takes you to the star wars cantina.

who knows? by then, you might've even had enough time pass so you can breathe again.

[Phelix-Mu]

The brown mold thing has the problem that its really hard to argue that the torch doesn't go out fairly quickly as the mold fills all immediately available space. The other thing that stops it is if you read the 'cold damage immediately destroys it' to apply to the entire patch at once, and not just a 5ft section, then the mold stops after it gets to be at most a few miles in radius since by that time the upper part of the mold patch will be hitting some pretty cold air. Still really awful, but at least it stops. Endure Elements maybe?

On the other hand, brown mold + a portal to the elemental plane of fire sounds like half of a solution. Maybe the other half is something that constantly chops up the mold into separate patches, so that a single point of cold damage doesn't end the process, or something that makes the mold immune to cold like giving it the [Cold] subtype? I think you can get that through a 6th level spell, so Wish should be able to provide that at least.

Edit: Also, wait. Did I just read that brown mold is instantly destroyed if it takes cold damage, and it deals cold damage to all living creatures around it? So basically, brown mold immediately commits suicide if there is ever more than one patch of it in the same place...

Brown mold isn't a creature. Note, this does become dysfunctional if you can awaken it, but normally it's not a problem, as it is an object (as are all normal, non-creature plants). Awakening it basically necessitates making it immune to cold, which shouldn't be a problem as it is awakened while a tree (and thus not having the abilities of the brown mold...ostensibly).

Note, I am treading on some extremely tenuous RAW here. But, the fact that it's an object in its normal state is also helpful.

I've recently started plotting ways to exploit this with shrink object, but, again, I am foiled by unclear rules interactions. A bag full of shrunken brown mold can deal a massive amount of nonlethal damage, and I tremble to consider the ramifications of miniature green slime.

EDIT: As to the mold extinguishing the torch, I always pictured it like normal mold, a fuzzy layer covering the surfaces in the square (but otherwise not filling the cube). This runs afoul of "cubes" not being a thing in game, but I think there is fair chance the torch doesn't go out. Or, use a lantern.

Also, you might be able to light the mold itself on fire... *evil grin*

[mabriss lethe]

would Chicken-infested's poultry based black hole count?

[Venger]

would Chicken-infested's poultry based black hole count?

if we're talking black hole, a faster way is a cancer mage with a commoner 1 dip and pigbond. dip hulking hurler to weaponize it. take leadership and might makes right with other like-minded individuals and through the use of chains and bottles of air, juggleflight to enemy solar systems and make black holes wherever you please. neatly takes care of the ensuing porci too, or at least makes them the problem of whatever planet you're hurling them at.

[Extra Anchovies]

who knows? by then, you might've even had enough time pass so you can breathe again.

Can you stack a metabreath feat with itself?

[Venger]

Can you stack a metabreath feat with itself?

Some of them, yes, including enlarge. You can do it any number of times by taking a longer delay. So you could do this, and then not breathe again for another 11 and a half years or so.

[Extra Anchovies]

Some of them, yes, including enlarge. You can do it any number of times by taking a longer delay. So you could do this, and then not breathe again for another 11 and a half years or so.

See, the issue is that cones don't follow the curvature of the earth, nor do they wrap around solid objects. It would take multiple breaths to destroy a planet unless you count it as one object.

[Milodiah]

if we're talking black hole, a faster way is a cancer mage with a commoner 1 dip and pigbond. dip hulking hurler to weaponize it. take leadership and might makes right with other like-minded individuals and through the use of chains and bottles of air, juggleflight to enemy solar systems and make black holes wherever you please. neatly takes care of the ensuing porci too, or at least makes them the problem of whatever planet you're hurling them at.



...I remember when this game was about slaying dragons and taking their stuff :smalltongue:

[Venger]

See, the issue is that cones don't follow the curvature of the earth, nor do they wrap around solid objects. It would take multiple breaths to destroy a planet unless you count it as one object.
The planet counts as one object.


...I remember when this game was about slaying dragons and taking their stuff :smalltongue:

You can use it on dragons too if you want.

[Phelix-Mu]

The planet counts as one object.

Are all locations objects? Can I get a source on this? Cause I thought there was some kind of distinction to the term object beyond "not a creature."

[Milodiah]

Please, allow me to present a theory.

Somewhere within the multiverse is the Plane of Giants' Playgrounds, populated entirely by insane wizards who fly through space, destroy the universe using black holes and projectile livestock, and then rebuild it as they see fit just to tidy up after themselves.

We do not Gate in eldritch horrors to destroy planes of existence.

We are the horrors Gated in to destroy planes of existence.

[Phelix-Mu]

Please, allow me to present a theory.

Somewhere within the multiverse is the Plane of Giants' Playgrounds, populated entirely by insane wizards and druids who fly through space, destroy the universe using black holes and projectile livestock, and then rebuild it as they see fit just to tidy up after themselves.

We do not Gate in eldritch horrors to destroy planes of existence.

We are the horrors Gated in to destroy planes of existence.

Fixed that for you. Minor clarification, but important nonetheless.

[Extra Anchovies]

We are the horrors Gated in to destroy planes of existence.

If so, where's my Gate? That sounds a lot more fun than college...

[Venger]

Please, allow me to present a theory.

Somewhere within the multiverse is the Plane of Giants' Playgrounds, populated entirely by insane wizards who whose astral projections fly through space, destroy the universe using black holes and projectile livestock, and then rebuild it as they see fit just to tidy up after themselves.

We do not Gate in eldritch horrors to destroy planes of existence.

We are the horrors Gated in to destroy planes of existence.

FTFY.

I'm sure tippy will come in and correct us again.

[Extra Anchovies]

FTFY.

I'm sure tippy will come in and correct us again.

With Astral Projections of Ice Assassins of Ice Assassins, probably.

[IZ42]

...I remember when this game was about slaying dragons and taking their stuff :smalltongue: May I sig this?

[Milodiah]

May I sig this?

Go ahead, is my goal.

[Phelix-Mu]

If so, where's my Gate? That sounds a lot more fun than college...

Twist: You get to go to the Plane of Giants' Playgrounds, and the eldritch horror gets to go to college.

Take that, Pandorym! 400-level math courses until you can live no more!

[Abd al-Azrad]

I know this isn't the fastest way to destroy the Multiverse, because its range is explicitly limited and therefore I'll pretty much never cause unlimited amounts of devastation. Also, because I'm not rules-saavy, I'm crossing 3.5 and Pathfinder.

Anyway. I'm thinking a crafting wizard with a Thrallherd cohort. The crafting wizard makes a whole bunch of Metamagic Gems, or some other single-use item that adds a specific metamagic effect (in this case, Flash Frost, Energy Admixture, Born of Three Thunders, Explosive Spell) to a spell. Your Thrallherd selects wizard minions with the Snowcasting feat, and makes sure a couple can manage the Locate City spell. Pass the gems out to your Thrallherd's fanatical minions of apocalypse, send them off in different directions.

As I say, impractical. The reason I bring it up is because I actually used this in a campaign: some crazy wizard-type had discovered the Locate City Bomb recipe, and was wandering around wiping out kingdoms. The party had to stop him somehow, knowing only that vast stretches of countries were being obliterated, seemingly at random.

[Venger]

With Astral Projections of Ice Assassins of Ice Assassins, probably.

Probably an Aleax in the process there somewhere too.



If so, where's my Gate? That sounds a lot more fun than college...

You gotta become an outsider first.

[SiuiS]

Sonic admixtured vile sanctified infinitely widened infinitely prolonged maximized breath weapon. The entire plane is permanently encased in the original breath type and also sonic energy for all eternity, doing enough damage to leave free floating obdurium objects for a few weeks.

Add in animate breath (sir/wiz 7) and you now also qualify to throw dimensional spell on their, obliterating the ethereal as well. Both the ethereal and prime material planes are now one unified and massive sonic elemental. Because portals are not objects which can be destroyed, your breath is now reaching through them to undo whatever it finds – multiversal travelers are surprised to see a blast wave of shimmering force explode out of every portal and begin destroying things simply by existing (if open portals and gates didn't already allow the literally infinite burst of your breath to enter these other planes) for rounds per level.

Be a spell to power erudite instead of sorc/wiz and use the benefit of Psionic ice so that your breath weapon does it's normal energy and sonic energy with reflex saves for half and also a Psionic power version of the breath admixture spell to get cold on there (half of which damages even cold immune enemies) with a fortitude save for half. Top it up with dispelling breath for a multi plane wide d20+15 dispel check against all the things.

Whatever can withstand literally infinite rounds of, say you're a red dragon because chaotic evil, 12d6 fire 12d6 sonic 12d6 cold, avoid having it's protections dispelled, avoid the beatings of an elemental, and heck, can survive 4d4 negative levels on top, in a multiverse that no longer has a prime material, ethereal, astral, shadow, or several upper and lower planes? It deserves to live.

For greater fun, somehow turn into an advanced pyro clastic dragon first, just for the added insult of a dc15 disintegrate that extends across all creation – and affects objects.

[Phelix-Mu]

You gotta become an outsider first.

Nitpick: You just need to be extraplanar, not be an outsider. This is basically why gate RAW is borked, because EVERYONE can get the extraplanar subtype just by being on the wrong plane.

/nitpick.

[Inevitability]

Be a 3rd-level human sorcerer. Your feats are Extend Spell, Heighten Spell, Extra Spell (Time Stop), Extra Spell (Gate) and Persistent Spell.

Make a Faustian Pact for a 16th-level spellslot. You can sell your soul if necessary (after all, there won't be any hell to go to when you have destroyed all of creation).

Now cast an Extended Persistent Time Stop. You gain 2 days of apparent time, which you can use as you want.

Rest 8 hours. Cast Heightened Gate to open a portal to Plane X. Rest 8 hours. Cast Extended Persistent Time Stop. Rinse, repeat. Eventually, you'll have a portal to every plane in existence.

Wait for the time stop to wear off, readying an action to immediately cast Gate to gate in a Genius Loci of infinite size when it does. Time stop ends, you cast your spell, giant Genius Loci causes this world and all others to collapse into a black hole.

http://triadstrategies.typepad.com/.a/6a0120a6abf659970b0162fde3889c970d-800wi

[Venger]

what book is "genius loci" in? I've never heard of it before.

[Extra Anchovies]

what book is "genius loci" in? I've never heard of it before.

It's an arbitrarily-sized ooze from the ELH. Also on the SRD. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/geniusLoci.htm)

[Phelix-Mu]

what book is "genius loci" in? I've never heard of it before.

It's Epic Level Handbook, unless I am much amiss.

[Venger]

It's an arbitrarily-sized ooze from the ELH. Also on the SRD. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/geniusLoci.htm)


It's Epic Level Handbook, unless I am much amiss.

Thanks. I don't play epic.

What a ridiculous monster

[ben-zayb]

Be a 3rd-level human sorcerer. Your feats are Extend Spell, Heighten Spell, Extra Spell (Time Stop), Extra Spell (Gate) and Persistent Spell.

Make a Faustian Pact for a 16th-level spellslot. You can sell your soul if necessary (after all, there won't be any hell to go to when you have destroyed all of creation).

Now cast an Extended Persistent Time Stop. You gain 2 days of apparent time, which you can use as you want.

Rest 8 hours. Cast Heightened Gate to open a portal to Plane X. Rest 8 hours. Cast Extended Persistent Time Stop. Rinse, repeat. Eventually, you'll have a portal to every plane in existence.

Wait for the time stop to wear off, readying an action to immediately cast Gate to gate in a Genius Loci of infinite size when it does. Time stop ends, you cast your spell, giant Genius Loci causes this world and all others to collapse into a black hole.Heightened Gate? Is there a particular reason why?

And you might need a few more steps, considering you need an epic feat to heighten above 9th level spells.

[Extra Anchovies]

What a ridiculous monster

Indeed. Especially since there's a spell by the same name that replicates the concept of a genius loci in a much better fashion (the caster determines one or more triggering conditions which summon an elder elemental to attack whoever triggers the conditions).

[Inevitability]

And you might need a few more steps, considering you need an epic feat to heighten above 9th level spells.

Darn it, missed that. Okay, version 2.0...

Be a 1st-level human sorcerer worshipping Vhaeraun. Your feats are Extend Spell, Arcane Disciple (trickery), Arcane Disciple (drow), and Persistent Spell.

Make a Faustian Pact for a 16th-level spellslot and a 9th-level spellslot. You can sell your soul if necessary (after all, there won't be any hell to go to when you have destroyed all of creation).

Now cast an Extended Persistent Time Stop. You gain 2 days of apparent time, which you can use as you want.

Rest 8 hours. Cast Gate to open a portal to Plane X. Rest 8 hours. Cast Extended Persistent Time Stop. Rinse, repeat. Eventually, you'll have a portal to every plane in existence.

Wait for the time stop to wear off, readying an action to immediately cast Gate to gate in a Genius Loci of infinite size when it does. Time stop ends, you cast your spell, giant Genius Loci causes this world and all others to collapse into a black hole.

Okay, this should work. Anything that I've overseen?

[Heliomance]

Darn it, missed that. Okay, version 2.0...

Be a 1st-level human sorcerer worshipping Vhaeraun. Your feats are Extend Spell, Arcane Disciple (trickery), Arcane Disciple (drow), and Persistent Spell.

Make a Faustian Pact for a 16th-level spellslot and a 9th-level spellslot. You can sell your soul if necessary (after all, there won't be any hell to go to when you have destroyed all of creation).

Now cast an Extended Persistent Time Stop. You gain 2 days of apparent time, which you can use as you want.

Rest 8 hours. Cast Gate to open a portal to Plane X. Rest 8 hours. Cast Extended Persistent Time Stop. Rinse, repeat. Eventually, you'll have a portal to every plane in existence.

Wait for the time stop to wear off, readying an action to immediately cast Gate to gate in a Genius Loci of infinite size when it does. Time stop ends, you cast your spell, giant Genius Loci causes this world and all others to collapse into a black hole.

Okay, this should work. Anything that I've overseen?

Persistent Time Stop doesn't work that way. Most consistent way I can see to rule it is that it gives you 1d4+1 rounds of actions over the space of 24 hours.

[AuraTwilight]

Iron Heart Surge gravity and watch the entire Material Plane come apart at a molecular level.

[bigstipidfighte]

I'm going to play devil's advocate and try to refute some of the ideas offered up so far. These arguments will of course be merely for the sake of science. I want to destroy the world as much as the next playgrounder. Not a physicist myself so I’m not going to comment one way or the other on various entries trying to create black holes.

Summon Fiat Monster- Ninjamaster1991- Summoning “some statless eldrich horror from beyond the stars” doesn’t seem feasible to me for a non-DM. It’s by definition fiat.

Brown Mold Apocaplypse- Phelix Mu and others- It seems that if the mold worked this way, the world would be dead already. So either the world is destroyed and you didn’t do it, or it doesn’t work that way and you can’t destroy the world.

Super Dragon Breath- Venger- How does this destroy a planet, let alone the multiverse? It’s big, but not overly damaging.

Super-Duper Tryhard Dragon Breath- SiuiS -Now this is getting somewhere. I’m pretty sure Line of Effect isn’t going to let it follow the curvature of the planet, or shoot anything more than a narrow beam through a portal though. I might have more objections, but these are the most obvious. Do you have a counter to the line of effect issue? Not taking the time to look everything you mentioned up since it’s a long one.

Iron Heart Surge the Universe- AuraTwilight- Even if it worked, destroys exactly one planet. Moving on…

A whole new world- Forestfire- I’m not familiar with the time travel spell, but assuming it works as you say it does, that sounds at least plausible. If no one else comes out either to back you up or refute you, I might dedicate the time to looking it up and forming a proper opinion. This is my favorite entry so far.

EDIT- I'd be much more inclined to check the work of anyone willing to post book references, and MUCH more inclined if also offered page references. With dndtools and crystalkeep down referencing things like this is a chore.

[Heliomance]

EDIT- I'd be much more inclined to check the work of anyone willing to post book references, and MUCH more inclined if also offered page references. With dndtools and crystalkeep down referencing things like this is a chore.

Crystal Keep got rehosted.

[Venger]

also, all of these are very old jokes/tricks. it's not hard to google. mine's helpfully explained in one of the dragonfire adept handbooks or another. the others I think are all catalogued in the dirty tricks handbook.

[bigstipidfighte]

A link to a post containing page references would be perfectly acceptable if such exists.

[SiuiS]

Be a 3rd-level human sorcerer. Your feats are Extend Spell, Heighten Spell, Extra Spell (Time Stop), Extra Spell (Gate) and Persistent Spell.


Won't work for two reasons. The first is that the square cube law doesn't exist, and the take away is that mass does not increase gravity. The second is the very same sourcebook limits time stops in duration, saying that's all reality can handle.

Although that means "forcing time stop to provide more than that many rounds" is a valid end world tactic.



Super-Duper Tryhard Dragon Breath- SiuiS -Now this is getting somewhere. I’m pretty sure Line of Effect isn’t going to let it follow the curvature of the planet, or shoot anything more than a narrow beam through a portal though.

Bursts specifically expand through holes much wider than just a beam, as I recall, and an infinitely long beam that is the tentacle of an infinitely large elemental is still sufficient – apocalypse from the sky does less damage for less time and levels mountains. An object will stop a burst if it has more hp than the burst does damage, otherwise the burst destroys the object and keeps going, right? The planet is made of small portions of stone, you can easily do enough damage to overcome each small section individually with shenanigans.

If the material has actual curvature and isn't just an infinite plane like the rest (I'm partial to going high enough leads to elemental air, not space; planet core leads to elemental earth, no magma, etc) then add in the feat that lets a dragon explode their breath out in a burst sphere instead of a cone or line.

The real trick is getting the necessary feats and spells and such by a reasonable enough level. I feel it's best though because it's the only actual rules based version so far: the rules themselves apply damage to all things across the multiverse, as opposed to nebulous and non-rule things like gravity or pseudonatural horrors undoing physics.


I might have more objections, but these are the most obvious. Do you have a counter to the line of effect issue? Not taking the time to look everything you mentioned up since it’s a long one.

Intuition. I may be crossing burst rules from 2e, 3.0 and 3.5. I'll check when I have the time and inclination. :)



A whole new world- Forestfire- I’m not familiar with the time travel spell, but assuming it works as you say it does, that sounds at least plausible. If no one else comes out either to back you up or refute you, I might dedicate the time to looking it up and forming a proper opinion. This is my favorite entry so far.

Teleport through time is finicky. It has a material component of a flower or plant clipping from an area that has never before encountered sapient life. Most people say "screw that, use eschew materials!", but... You kinda can't? I mean you can, but you teleport to where and when that flower was, so if you remove the flower entirely you can blow the spell slot but you won't go anywhere. And that's part of the actual spell text, it's not just a line in the crunch about components. It's very up in the air.

Everythig else checks out from memory though, if that was @teleport back in time and replace this plane with genesis".


EDIT- I'd be much more inclined to check the work of anyone willing to post book references, and MUCH more inclined if also offered page references. With dndtools and crystalkeep down referencing things like this is a chore.

I used the draconomicon, PHB and spell-to-power erudite.

[bigstipidfighte]

Before we go any further, Bad Wolf, would you care do define "fastest?"

Lowest level? Least amount of personal time invested? Least amount of time elapsed between start and completion of plan?

Alternatively, was the title largely unrelated, and this is more of a chance to toss around wacky idea than a competition?

[OldTrees1]

Did anyone mention a way to extend the explicit RAW blackhole from Elder Evils pg 142 to the other planes? It won't be the fastest method since it takes more than 1 turn for the Sphere of Annihilation to mature into a Black Hole but it is the most complete method.

Would Planar Shepherds attuned to the Material Plane work?
Would Gates work?

[Flickerdart]

4) destroy the earth and kill everyone on its surface.

Congrats, you destroyed most life on one planet out of an uncountable multitude, without even making a dent in the planet itself. Give yourself a pat on the back.

[Urpriest]

Iron Heart Surge gravity and watch the entire Material Plane come apart at a molecular level.

As a physicist I have to comment on this. What exactly do you think holds molecules together?

Edit: Also, the enormous elemental can't just stick its tentacles through Gates or Portals. Once you contact a Gate/Portal you are immediately shunted through. Similarly, spell effects probably can't pass through, since they're not "things" (individual objects) or creatures.

[Venger]

As a physicist I have to comment on this. What exactly do you think holds molecules together?

well, at least he knew it was one of the four fundamental forces, just not the right one.

[Bad Wolf]

Before we go any further, Bad Wolf, would you care do define "fastest?"

Lowest level? Least amount of personal time invested? Least amount of time elapsed between start and completion of plan?

Alternatively, was the title largely unrelated, and this is more of a chance to toss around wacky idea than a competition?

More tossing around ideas then an actual competition.

[Inevitability]

Why stop at gravity? The other fundamental forces are much more fun to destroy! Just hire three other warblades and have all of them target another fundamental force.

Why not destroy dark energy while you're at it? After all, it is 'affecting' you.

[AuraTwilight]

As a physicist I have to comment on this. What exactly do you think holds molecules together?

Edit: Also, the enormous elemental can't just stick its tentacles through Gates or Portals. Once you contact a Gate/Portal you are immediately shunted through. Similarly, spell effects probably can't pass through, since they're not "things" (individual objects) or creatures.

I was mostly trying to keep an in-universe perspective and was thinking "some D&D guy probably won't know about the other three fundamental forces. Which may not even exist in this Multiverse anyway."

[Phelix-Mu]

I was mostly trying to keep an in-universe perspective and was thinking "some D&D guy probably won't know about the other three fundamental forces. Which may not even exist in this Multiverse anyway."

Well, gravity is barely a thing in-game either. Or, if it is, it functions in a very different, and much more convoluted, way than normal, irl gravity.

Which is why any mention of gravitational collapse needs a big fat asterisk next to it, since it's not at all clear that you can extrapolate from how the game uses the term gravity to irl implications like black holes.

[Urpriest]

I was mostly trying to keep an in-universe perspective and was thinking "some D&D guy probably won't know about the other three fundamental forces. Which may not even exist in this Multiverse anyway."

Ok, why in-universe would anyone believe that gravity holds molecules together?

[atemu1234]

Crystal Keep got rehosted.

And it never left the Wayback Machine!

[Renen]

Remember, Wish is one notoriously tricky bastard. It might make a picture on a scroll of someone casting Gate.



Any specific eldritch horror from beyond time? Just saying one is sort of vague. Of course there might be a demon, for example, wearing a pink bowtie, but you can't really summon one without knowing specifically which demon it is.

I just have all my gated in friends each open a gate to the far realms and shout "Get in here you bastards! One tasty universe this way!

[AnonymousPepper]

Well, Wish lets you do whatever you want if you're willing to deal with the negative consequences afterward. Your wish is granted, just, the DM then gets to screw you over later.

Therefore, I simply wish that everything that ever existed, currently exists, and otherwise would exist is simultaneously and permanently wiped from existence in such a way that doing so does not prevent the Wish from happening, and nothing comes into being to replace it.

Of course, then the DM can twist the wish however he likes, but if it's worded right, I succeed.

[bigstipidfighte]

From the srd-

"The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment."

Note that this is an or statement, so the wish can do the second thing (partial fulfillment) making your painstakingly crafted request pretty meaningless if it ignores some of your provisions and does some others half-assed. Literal but undesirable fulfillment is an option, not a mandate.

I'm not ignoring the older posts, that is just a quick and easy one to refute.

[Renen]

Or just do it like Fairly odd parents did it (needs 2 wishes):
1) I wish for the BEST lawyer that ever existed (add a bunch of stipulations how lawyer needs to not eat you on sight, etc. Though DM is unlikely to pervert this one)
2) Get lawyer to draft an iron-clad wish
3) Make the wish
4) ???
5) World ends

[AuraTwilight]

Ok, why in-universe would anyone believe that gravity holds molecules together?

"Dammit, Fighter, let the Wizard finish explaining physics before you start suspending them!"

[Venger]

"Dammit, Fighter, let the Wizard finish explaining physics before you start suspending them!"

(IHSes away the expository monologue)

[Flickerdart]

Or just do it like Fairly odd parents did it (needs 2 wishes):
1) I wish for the BEST lawyer that ever existed (add a bunch of stipulations how lawyer needs to not eat you on sight, etc. Though DM is unlikely to pervert this one)
2) Get lawyer to draft an iron-clad wish
3) Make the wish
4) ???
5) World ends
Partial fulfillment clause is immune to lawyers. Ironclad wording only helps you with "literal but undesirable."

[Urpriest]

Partial fulfillment clause is immune to lawyers. Ironclad wording only helps you with "literal but undesirable."

Make the contract a fractal then. Every part is a smaller copy of the whole.

[Flickerdart]

Make the contract a fractal then. Every part is a smaller copy of the whole.
I actually wouldn't be terribly surprised if one of the races of Lawful outsiders spoke in fractals.

[Inevitability]

I actually wouldn't be terribly surprised if one of the races of Lawful outsiders spoke in fractals.

I'm totally stealing this for the next time my players encounter a Lawful outsider. Thank you, kind and brilliant sir. :smallsmile:

[SiuiS]

As a physicist I have to comment on this. What exactly do you think holds molecules together?

Edit: Also, the enormous elemental can't just stick its tentacles through Gates or Portals. Once you contact a Gate/Portal you are immediately shunted through. Similarly, spell effects probably can't pass through, since they're not "things" (individual objects) or creatures.

That's weak nuclear force, yes?

Dang. Guess I was crossing my editions. Would have to tear a more permanent hole.


Why stop at gravity? The other fundamental forces are much more fun to destroy! Just hire three other warblades and have all of them target another fundamental force.

Why not destroy dark energy while you're at it? After all, it is 'affecting' you.

None of the fundamental forces are conditions.


From the srd-

"The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment."

Note that this is an or statement, so the wish can do the second thing (partial fulfillment) making your painstakingly crafted request pretty meaningless if it ignores some of your provisions and does some others half-assed. Literal but undesirable fulfillment is an option, not a mandate.

I'm not ignoring the older posts, that is just a quick and easy one to refute.

Likely ending you so the world, from yor viewpoint, is over.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Wish can create magic items safely (no warping/partial fulfilment) with apparently no limitations.


So simply wish for a magical trap with automatic reset that casts Disjunction and Disintagrate on any target within range at a (practically infinite) caster level.

Automatic reset = infinite attempts at destroying something
Nigh-infinite CL = nigh-infinite range of its attacks.

[Heliomance]

That's weak nuclear force, yes?


No, molecules are held together by electromagnetism. Atoms are held together by the strong nucelar force. I was never really clear on what the weak nuclear force did - something to do with radioactive decay? Not sure.

[Urpriest]

No, molecules are held together by electromagnetism. Atoms are held together by the strong nucelar force. I was never really clear on what the weak nuclear force did - something to do with radioactive decay? Not sure.

"Something to do with radioactive decay" is about right, yeah. Specifically beta decay. It's more known for transforming things than holding things together.

[Renen]

Partial fulfillment clause is immune to lawyers. Ironclad wording only helps you with "literal but undesirable."

Substitute "wish" for "Miracle cast by cleric worshiping concepts"

[SimonMoon6]

I actually wouldn't be terribly surprised if one of the races of Lawful outsiders spoke in fractals.

But... but... fractals result from *chaotic* dynamical systems!

[Flickerdart]

But... but... fractals result from *chaotic* dynamical systems!
Law and Chaos aren't the same things in D&D as they are in reality. For instance, I'm pretty sure that heat death would be considered Lawful in D&D.

[Brookshw]

I actually wouldn't be terribly surprised if one of the races of Lawful outsiders spoke in fractals.

In a similar vein to the living mathematical equations?

[Jurai]

Please, allow me to present a theory.

Somewhere within the multiverse is the Plane of Giants' Playgrounds, populated entirely by insane wizards who fly through space, destroy the universe using black holes and projectile livestock, and then rebuild it as they see fit just to tidy up after themselves.

We do not Gate in eldritch horrors to destroy planes of existence.

We are the horrors Gated in to destroy planes of existence.

Permission to quote this, please?

[Milodiah]

Feel free, is still my goal.

[Psyren]

Wouldn't Shadowcalypse work? They're incorporeal and immortal, so theoretically they can fly to other planets, "colonize" and then spread out in every direction. Repeat until heat death.

[Venger]

Law and Chaos aren't the same things in D&D as they are in reality. For instance, I'm pretty sure that heat death would be considered Lawful in D&D.

I think there's some group of Lawful outsiders or another who endeavor to freeze everybody in the universe for some purpose like this.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Wouldn't Shadowcalypse work? They're incorporeal and immortal, so theoretically they can fly to other planets, "colonize" and then spread out in every direction. Repeat until heat death.

Firstly, given that it would take them a (very^big number) long time to reach another world, that doesn't really qualify for fastest. Secondly, given the vast distance between worlds (assuming a real-world-ish material plane cosmology), only one shadow will arrive at any given world, since they'll be so spread out, and 1 shadow will probably be destroyed easily. Three, there exist many creatures that cannot be harmed by shadows, regardless of how many there are - anything immune to strength damage, anything with no strength score, anything with a positive energy aura, etc.) Finally, other planes.

Is "HASTUR HASTUR HASTUR" available anywhere in 3.5? It's not quite multiversal, but you can't really beat it for speed...

Actually, if you have the King In Yellow on speed-dial, just wish for is name to be said thrice simultaneously or sequentially (depending on whether he can be in multiple places at once or not) on every plane of existence.

[Milodiah]

I'm not entirely sure if that's an actual thing of the Hastur mythos, though...I haven't read the Derleth stuff, but I've never seen it pop up either in Chambers' stuff or in the CoC game books which were made fairly truthfully to the source materials. If you're going off the Old Man Henderson logic, which is the only place I've seen that pop up, it'd have to be uttered by Hastur's greatest foe at the time.

Besides, the summoning of an Outer God or Great Old One usually just results in the summoning party being squished for annoying It, a bit of wanton destruction to drive the point home, then the god going back home to continue its business. Even the summoning of Azathoth wouldn't destroy the whole plane of existence, unless he felt like it, and he only feels like dancing for eternity.

[Navian]

I'm not very good at optimization, so here's my submission:

Convert to Solipsism, and wish yourself back to sleep.

[SiuiS]

No, molecules are held together by electromagnetism. Atoms are held together by the strong nucelar force. I was never really clear on what the weak nuclear force did - something to do with radioactive decay? Not sure.

Ah. Well I got my education on it during a conversation on Mage where even basic math fell apart in my head. Not surprised it got jumbled.


Wouldn't Shadowcalypse work? They're incorporeal and immortal, so theoretically they can fly to other planets, "colonize" and then spread out in every direction. Repeat until heat death.

Could work, except everything besides player races can destroy shadows with ease – and for every city that falls to shadows you get a handful natural deathless who can combat them with incredible ease. Shadow-pocalypse doesn't actually work.


Firstly, given that it would take them a (very^big number) long time to reach another world, that doesn't really qualify for fastest.

Irrelevant. The material plane doesn't, by default, have space and planets that are objects you can visit and are just as vast as the ground below you.


*


Add a step to the dragon breath doom. Shapechange into the dragon, so the thing, revert, Shapechange into a different dragon to reset your forever-unusable breath, and plane shift before repeating.

Still can't be done easy before level 18, though. What's faster?

[ben-zayb]

Why stop at gravity? The other fundamental forces are much more fun to destroy! Just hire three other warblades and have all of them target another fundamental force.

Why not destroy dark energy while you're at it? After all, it is 'affecting' you.

I'm no Physics major, but how do you destroy fundamental forces? Aren't they more like interactions?Aren't you supposed to destroy the force carriers (gauge bosons?) instead?

That's a ****ton of warblades.

[Psyren]

Could work, except everything besides player races can destroy shadows with ease – and for every city that falls to shadows you get a handful natural deathless who can combat them with incredible ease. Shadow-pocalypse doesn't actually work.

Aren't we assuming a universe like ours? If you throw in deities, magical organizations, divinations and the like then a lot of these other proposals fail as well.

[Urpriest]

Ah. Well I got my education on it during a conversation on Mage where even basic math fell apart in my head. Not surprised it got jumbled.


Spoilered for derail:

Oh wow I had actually thought you were just joking and didn't feel like using blue text.

Feel free to ignore this if it's too personal, but as someone with an interest in education/science popularization I'm curious. I had the impression that most people learned the basics of how atoms work (electrons in orbit around protons, held there by electromagnetic attraction) by the end of high school. Are you young enough that you haven't run into it yet, was it something you might have learned in the past and forgot, or did your school not cover it?

I write science popularization stuff that's supposed to be accessible to a general audience, but I tend to assume people know how atoms work. If that's not as common knowledge as I thought, I may have to edit a few things...



I'm no Physics major, but how do you destroy fundamental forces? Aren't they more like interactions?Aren't you supposed to destroy the force carriers (gauge bosons?) instead?

That's a ****ton of warblades.

Iron Heart Surge doesn't say that you destroy particles only. If you're interpreting it in the broadest, silliest sense, then you could destroy the commutative property of addition if it was affecting you.

[Flickerdart]

I'm not very good at optimization, so here's my submission:

Convert to Solipsism, and wish yourself back to sleep.
If you're playing in Planescape and are powerful enough, this could actually work - but you'd need to be ridiculously amazing. Like, beyond god-level amazing.

[ben-zayb]

Iron Heart Surge doesn't say that you destroy particles only. If you're interpreting it in the broadest, silliest sense, then you could destroy the commutative property of addition if it was affecting you.Well, yeah, in that context, real life logic is the first victim of Iron Heart Surge. That, or mathematics.

Still, I think you're on to something on the RAW side of things. Fundamental interactions like electromagnetism sounds more of an "effect" compared to masterwork manacles (and "effect" is not a D&D term so we use the RL definition, right?).

[Inevitability]

If you're playing in Planescape and are powerful enough, this could actually work - but you'd need to be ridiculously amazing. Like, beyond god-level amazing.

Hm? Could you explain? I don't understand.

[Auron3991]

If all I have to do is kill everything in the universe, then I use the wish spell to increase the power of the force binding nucleons into nuclei to double. Everything down to the hydrogen would fuse.

[danzibr]

Could work, except everything besides player races can destroy shadows with ease – and for every city that falls to shadows you get a handful natural deathless who can combat them with incredible ease. Shadow-pocalypse doesn't actually work.
Please forgive my ignorance, but what's this you speak of?

[Flickerdart]

Hm? Could you explain? I don't understand.
In Planescape, belief explicitly shapes everything. It's why the gods crave followers, and why it's possible to do things like believe yourself out of existence. It goes to follow that a sufficient amount of belief that there is no multiverse could wipe it out (of course, it would have to eclipse the widely held belief that there is a multiverse, which is why you'd need some serious brain juice).

[SiuiS]

Oh wow I had actually thought you were just joking and didn't feel like using blue text.

Feel free to ignore this if it's too personal, but as someone with an interest in education/science popularization I'm curious. I had the impression that most people learned the basics of how atoms work (electrons in orbit around protons, held there by electromagnetic attraction) by the end of high school. Are you young enough that you haven't run into it yet, was it something you might have learned in the past and forgot, or did your school not cover it?

I write science popularization stuff that's supposed to be accessible to a general audience, but I tend to assume people know how atoms work. If that's not as common knowledge as I thought, I may have to edit a few things...


The most important part of my public education was learning how much public education tends to fail people in general. I've been out of high school for twelve years. Physics was a single year of poorly explained math.

This is the same school which kept putting me into basic math classes because there weren't enough people signing up for geometry. It took three years before I was "allowed" to move on despite doing the geometry course work anyway, and by then I said I have six months of school left, four-asterisk you.


Please forgive my ignorance, but what's this you speak of?

Deathless, like Undead, are naturally occurring phenomenon. Each has it's own conditions, but they include defending the helpless and sacrificing yourself.

I'm not going to dig out the book for monsters most folks don't even remember, but if a guy goes down defending the helpless because he's swarmed by shadows, he may rise as a shadow, but he may rise as a deathless guardian who is incorporeal and can launch at will Holy Smite. Even with it's almost exponential growth, a few of those will dampen a shadow (or wraith or wight) apocalypse.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

@Iron Heart Surge:

When you use this maneuver, select one spell, effect, or other condition currently affecting you and with a duration of 1 or more rounds.

By RAW, effects with duration that isn't in rounds are thus not affected by this. This includes things like most natural phenomena (no listed duration), most attacks (instantaneous), and lots of spells from flesh-to-stone (instantaneous) to bestow curse (permanent) to everything in between.

[atemu1234]

@Iron Heart Surge:


By RAW, effects with duration that isn't in rounds are thus not affected by this. This includes things like most natural phenomena (no listed duration), most attacks (instantaneous), and lots of spells from flesh-to-stone (instantaneous) to bestow curse (permanent) to everything in between.

How does one define rounds? Because theoretically, Gravity would last until the end of the universe, which will eventually happen, which means there is a given time frame, which may be measured in rounds (six seconds per).

[Belial_the_Leveler]

How does one define rounds?
You don't. Both "duration" and "rounds" are already defined in the game rules and each effect with duration already has a "duration" tag in its writeup. For example, Acid Arrow has Duration: 1 round + 1 round per three levels and thus can be ended by Iron Heart Surge while Bane has Duration: 1 min./level, and thus cannot be ended by Iron Heart Surge.