Solo Wizard Dragon Slaying tips

[RoboEmperor]

A level 10 wizard wants to solo a Young Adult Gold Dragon. What are some easy ways to accomplish this?

How about a level 9 wizard who wants to solo a Juvenile Gold Dragon?
How about a level 11 wizard who wants to solo an Adult Red Dragon?

How about:
12: Adult Gold Dragon
13: Mature Adult Gold Dragon
14: Old Red Dragon
15: Old Gold Dragon
16: Very Old Gold Dragon
18: Ancient Gold Dragon
19: Wyrm Gold Dragon
20: Great Wyrm Red Dragon

Unlike tarrasque, fly won't save you, neither will a force cage, or an energy immunity by itself.
Any 3.5 source book is allowed, but my DM does tend to avoid the sourcebooks that don't have a complete in their title.

If you think it's impossible, say it's impossible.

Most important one is the level 10 one.

edit3: For survivability I'm going greater invisibility + stoneskin against his melee attacks, and polymorph into a very yonug dragon for the breath weapon. Just need to land like 4 energy substitution cold orbs of fire to kill a young adult red dragon. Still need a proteciton against ability damage for the gold dragon... I wonder if gold dragons are immune to the breaths of other gold dragons.

Current plan of action:
1. protection from energy + fire shield + resist energy
2. Greater invisibility + stoneskin
3. Engage and spam 10d6 orbs of fire with energy substitution cold. Should do average 70 damage a hit. Or assay resistance and maximized scorching ray, for a whopping 144damage per casting.
4. If low on hp, polymorph into a very young dragon, getting a full heal and immunity to fire.
5. Hopefully that's enough to take it down?

But this is only against young adult red dragons. Gold dragons got that strength drain breath that will be devastating to a wizard >.<

At level 13 I think I can take on any stupid red dragon by force caging myself and energy immunity. Of course if they run away then mission failed... I need more help T_T.

edit4: SaintNick has provided me with an amazing tactic!
1. Acquire Dust of Sneezing and Choking (buy it for 2400 or get a cleric/druid to provide you with the poison spell (or ghaele) to craft it yourself.
2. Get it off on the Dragon via winning initiative, surprise round, etc.
3. You now have a minimum of 4 rounds, maximum of 20 rounds, average of 12.5 rounds to annihilate the stunned dragon. Not even a great wyrm can survive 12 rounds of maximized orbs!
4. If the dragon has contingencies, just do steps 1-2 and teleport away every day until he has no contingencies left. Once successful proceed to 3.

[atemu1234]

Simply speaking, a core wizard could accomplish this by choosing the correct spells. Cone of Cold with metamagic feats would be useful.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Well summoning Allips is an old standby. You'll need another way to prevent it from escaping.

Dex Damage.

Blasting that would be considered too much damage at many tables.

Decent blasting, appropriate energy resistence and => flight via polymorph.

[Bad Wolf]

Shivering Touch (Frostburn) and an Orb of the opposite of whatever subtype it has.

[Zanos]

Cast Lahm's Finger Darts.

[Zaq]

How smart is the dragon? If it's not smart enough to cast Scintillating Scales, then good old-fashioned Shivering Touch (Frostburn) is the go-to spell for dragon killing. (You'll want to use Reach Spell, Ocular Spell, or Spectral Hand to deliver it, but all of those are options.) If the dragon DOES cast Scintillating Scales, you can use True Strike to get around it, but that means you can't use Assay Spell Resistance and have to actually roll against its SR.

[RoboEmperor]

Shivering Touch is stretching a bit as it's a source my DM doesn't own.

Lahm's Finger Darts is also the the same case as Shivering Touch >.< except I need to become a deity worshipper for it.

The only other good idea is... orb of ice or energy substitution (cold) orb of fire against the red and gold dragons?

How can I stay alive to throw those orbs? All of them can fly right? Level 13 I think I can survive with force cage + energy immunity against red dragons, but I need some sort of ability damage protector against the gold dragon's strength damager so... veil of undeath as well? But these are all high level spells >.<

I want to kill at least the red dragons super early!

edit: I noticed dragons have no true sight. Does this mean I can spam greater invisibility for an effective invincibility? What happens if I spam ray of enfeeblement on it? I think with orb spells I can kill it in 4 rounds or enervation + save-or-dies like baleful polymorph, so I just need a way to survive for 4 rounds from his breath weapon and melee attacks. I'll probably get the first attack off since I'm invisible. Even if they have a spot of 20 or higher, they can't hurt me until I show myself or they cast a spell.

[Sayt]

True dragons have blind sense, so you'll need superior invisibility to fox their perception. Normal invisibility will still grant 50% concealment. But you don't get concealment against breath weapons.

[RoboEmperor]

True dragons have blind sense, so you'll need superior invisibility to fox their perception. Normal invisibility will still grant 50% concealment. But you don't get concealment against breath weapons.

Right! 50% concealment! That will enhance my endurance! That along with stoneskin would provide very good defense against melee! Maybe if I also magic jar a Bearded Devil for immunity to fire... hmm..., magic jar a bearded devil, buff myself like crazy, grab a bunch of healing potions, and engage, unless polymorph grants me a creature with high fire resist.

edit: For red dragons, I'll polymorph into a very young red dragon. It's a full heal and grants me immunity to fire! Will this be enough to take him out?

[SaintNick]

This will work against all of the dragons.

Prep
1. Find a Shadow/Wraith/Allip/etc. and use Command Undead on it.
2. Visit a village and let it create a number of spawns.
Combat
1. Boost your initiative high enough to guarantee you go first.
2. Throw Dust of Sneezing and Choking at the dragon to stun it for 5d4 rounds (no save).
3. Haste the undead and then watch as the dragon dies to ability damage.

[Barbarian Horde]

Shivering Touch (Frostburn) and an Orb of the opposite of whatever subtype it has.
Maximize this

[TypoNinja]

How smart is the dragon? If it's not smart enough to cast Scintillating Scales, then good old-fashioned Shivering Touch (Frostburn) is the go-to spell for dragon killing. (You'll want to use Reach Spell, Ocular Spell, or Spectral Hand to deliver it, but all of those are options.) If the dragon DOES cast Scintillating Scales, you can use True Strike to get around it, but that means you can't use Assay Spell Resistance and have to actually roll against its SR.

Eyeball beholderkin familiar, it can deliver your touch spells with its eye rays, no metamagic adjustment.

[RoboEmperor]

This will work against all of the dragons.

Prep
1. Find a Shadow/Wraith/Allip/etc. and use Command Undead on it.
2. Visit a village and let it create a number of spawns.
Combat
1. Boost your initiative high enough to guarantee you go first.
2. Throw Dust of Sneezing and Choking at the dragon to stun it for 5d4 rounds (no save).
3. Haste the undead and then watch as the dragon dies to ability damage.

Amazing! THANKS! This was what I was looking for. My, you really are smart :)
This would work with just the dust of sneezing. Once stunned you got enough rounds to kill that thing with blasts.

But then again... DAMN IT! It needs the spell POISON to be crafted >.<. Nothing in this world is free :(, but then again Ghaeles can cast it therefore aid me via planar binding in crafting it.

Ok, level 11+ I will be using your strategy! This is amazing! w000! And it's CORE ONLY TOO! :)

So I guess levels 9-10 I'll be using the polymorph strategy or just prey on Juvenile dragons since they don't have SR.

Any additional tactics would also be welcome :D

edit: QUICK QUESTION!
HOW DO YOU USE THE DUST OF SNEEZING AND CHOKING?
It just says cast into the air causes a 20ft spread. Wouldn't that include you too? So would you have to get high initiative on some sort of undead for it to get it off in your place? Or... telekinesis? (level 5 spell so acceptable :D)

lol... this tactic breaks the game! Any BBEG with a fort save will be a joke!

[Tvtyrant]

Amazing! THANKS! This was what I was looking for. My, you really are smart :)
This would work with just the dust of sneezing. Once stunned you got enough rounds to kill that thing with blasts.

But then again... DAMN IT! It needs the spell POISON to be crafted >.<. Nothing in this world is free :(, but then again Ghaeles can cast it therefore aid me via planar binding in crafting it.

Ok, level 11+ I will be using your strategy! This is amazing! w000! And it's CORE ONLY TOO! :)

So I guess levels 9-10 I'll be using the polymorph strategy or just prey on Juvenile dragons since they don't have SR.

Any additional tactics would also be welcome :D

edit: QUICK QUESTION!
HOW DO YOU USE THE DUST OF SNEEZING AND CHOKING?
It just says cast into the air causes a 20ft spread. Wouldn't that include you too? So would you have to get high initiative on some sort of undead for it to get it off in your place? Or... telekinesis? (level 5 spell so acceptable :D)

lol... this tactic breaks the game! Any BBEG with a fort save will be a joke!

Unless the Dragon has levels in caster and uses one of the many immediate action teleports to avoid your stunning dust, or has a contingency for a force shield effect.

[RoboEmperor]

Unless the Dragon has levels in caster and uses one of the many immediate action teleports to avoid your stunning dust, or has a contingency for a force shield effect.

That ain't a dragon, that's a DM being a b*tch. A contingency just for your stunning dust means it somehow knew you were coming, and you were planning on using the dust, which is uncharacteristic of a treasure hoarding dragon. Only a scheming plot centered monster would be paranoid enough to constantly scry you and setup a perfect counter. Rest of the dragons just spend their days hoarding treasure until the occasional traveler comes along. And dragons can't cast teleportation or contingency, at least the dragons I'm trying to kill.

d20srd quote for Red Dragons

Can also cast cleric spells and those from the Chaos, Evil, and Fire domains as arcane spells.

Only cleric spells, and domain spells as arcane.

d20srd quote for Gold Dragons

Can also cast cleric spells and those from the Law, Luck, and Good domains as arcane spells.

No travel domain = no teleport :D

And the dragons I'm trying to kill at level 10 only have caster level 5, and telekinesis has huge range, longer than their blindsense :)

[A_S]

[snippage]
Not certain I'm understanding you correctly, but I think you might be off the mark on what spells dragons know. They cast as Sorcerers and get full access to the Sorcerer spell list; the stuff about access to the Cleric list and certain Domain lists in the individual type entries are on top of that. Relevant quote from the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dragonTrue.htm):
A dragon knows and casts arcane spells as a sorcerer of the level indicated in its variety description, gaining bonus spells for a high Charisma score. Some dragons can also cast spells from the cleric list or cleric domain lists as arcane spells.

[Tvtyrant]

That ain't a dragon, that's a DM being a b*tch. A contingency just for your stunning dust means it somehow knew you were coming, and you were planning on using the dust, which is uncharacteristic of a treasure hoarding dragon. Only a scheming plot centered monster would be paranoid enough to constantly scry you and setup a perfect counter. Rest of the dragons just spend their days hoarding treasure until the occasional traveler comes along. And dragons can't cast teleportation or contingency, at least the dragons I'm trying to kill.

And the dragons I'm trying to kill at level 10 only have caster level 5, and telekinesis has huge range, longer than their blindsense :)

You gave a list of CRs to go down. And you said any stupid red dragon so that was what I was assuming. Craft Contingent Spell's only requirement is is CL11, which is Old and up. Or they could have a cheap magic item of Flicker at lower levels.

My contingencies tend to be "I'm about to get hit with something magical" and then throw up resilient sphere or use a Dimension Door away from the attack.

[RoboEmperor]

You gave a list of CRs to go down. And you said any stupid red dragon so that was what I was assuming. Craft Contingent Spell's only requirement is is CL11, which is Old and up. Or they could have a cheap magic item of Flicker at lower levels.

My contingencies tend to be "I'm about to get hit with something magical" and then throw up resilient sphere or use a Dimension Door away from the attack.

Nice contingency! But how many dragons are as smart as you? :P

[Tvtyrant]

Nice contingency! But how many dragons are as smart as you? :P

Haha the last time one of those "what are your stats" I got a 12 in Int. So most of them.

[RoboEmperor]

Haha the last time one of those "what are your stats" I got a 12 in Int. So most of them.

Except those dragons don't have knowledge d&d: 99

[A_S]

Except those dragons don't have knowledge d&d: 99
I think it's reasonable to assume that high-Int spellcasters in D&D settings have pretty extensive knowledge of D&D spellcasting. It is, after all, highly relevant to their interests.

[ILM]

Nice contingency! But how many dragons are as smart as you? :P
An Old red dragon (i.e. capable of Contingency-ing stuff) has Int 20, which is smarter than most non-wizard party members at level 16, and smarter than basically everyone in the world who isn't a PC or a plot device.

But more importantly, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that Contingency: GTFO is a pretty good 'oh s**t' card to have up your sleeve. Much like regular wizards, if a caster dragon doesn't have one he's just not trying.

[RoboEmperor]

Ok, so it seems like craft contingency is what makes dragons hard to kill, but it's a CL11 feat so only old or higher have it therefore any dragon up until Mature Adult is kill-able without argument by dust of choking and sneezing.

Levels aside, how do YOU people regularly kill high level dragons with craft contingency and a lot of cleric spells?

I thought because Clerics don't have disintegrate, I'll be arguably invincible with barred force cage + immunity to the dragons breath weapon along with counterspelling dispel magic, but then the dragon's could use their cleric spells offensively in which case I'd be screwed. Luckily at least their cleric spell DCs aren't high, they're standard, or even low compared to their CR.

Best I got right now is spam telekinesis + dusts of choking and sneezing and get past his defenses, or use magic to destroy his defenses then spam the dusts of choking and sneezing.

[Zanos]

Levels aside, how do YOU people regularly kill high level dragons with craft contingency and a lot of cleric spells?
I don't, because both my DMs and I agree that we don't want to play chess.

Seriously, Dragons are already very strong for their CR.

[Tvtyrant]

Levels aside, how do YOU people regularly kill high level dragons with craft contingency and a lot of cleric spells?


Scry and kill, they use their contingency, we go rest for 24 hours and try again. They can only craft so fast after all. The fights get really ugly when they start casting glyphs around them and trying to find a way to shake you off.

[RoboEmperor]

Scry and kill, they use their contingency, we go rest for 24 hours and try again. They can only craft so fast after all. The fights get really ugly when they start casting glyphs around them and trying to find a way to shake you off.

Can you be more specific? :D Our group is relatively new so we don't know all the tricks. Our dragon fights are pretty straightforward...

So let's say your party is level 15 and you're about to face an old gold dragon. What defenses would he have, how would your party engage, how does the fight or fights go, and eventually how will it die?

[Kazyan]

Levels aside, how do YOU people regularly kill high level dragons with craft contingency and a lot of cleric spells?

The same way we kill everything else: the guys wielding pointy objects get up close and hit them, while the spellcasters hurriedly fling buffs/blasts/heals because the dragon is actually pretty scary.

Yes, I know my groups would instantly, automatically, and always die if they entered sight of a "proper" dragon, but whatever.

[RoboEmperor]

By the way, my current plan of action is gathering a LEGIT army of planar bound outsiders. I have no interest in the treasure, just the corpse, so the deal will go "Let's all kill the dragon! I keep the skeleton and you guys keep everything else!"

So I need information on what I need to take a dragon down so I can pick the right outsiders. It's going to be fluff friendly as in no mixture of demons and devils. It's one or the other. Celestials MIGHT work with demons/devils if the dragon is evil enough, but that's off-topic.

[evangaline]

Can you be more specific? :D Our group is relatively new so we don't know all the tricks. Our dragon fights are pretty straightforward...

So let's say your party is level 15 and you're about to face an old gold dragon. What defenses would he have, how would your party engage, how does the fight or fights go, and eventually how will it die?

This depends on the power of the group, someone once said that playing a wizard the way the giantitp does it requires something along the lines of an universal degree in DnD 3.5 mechanics.

But yeah, I would go at it with a wizard. Having a couple of gtfo contingencies, and a couple of defenisve and offensive contingencies. The goal would be to remove all his defenses and to back off the first couple of days (using teleport of course) and then after about a week of sparring we go in for the kill. Of course the battle is fought of a battlefield that I chose, limiting mobility.

I'd start with unluck and then work my way down my list of save or die/suck's.

This is of course simplified, but you get the point.

[RoboEmperor]

Could you be MORE specific? :D
Exactly how will you choose the battlefield? You're approaching him right?

[Xelbiuj]

If your DM is hilarious, you're going to eat metamagic breath with energy substitution. :smallwink:

[Heikold]

Step one: PRC into level 1 of Cancer Mage.

Step two: Catch Festering Anger and Vile Rigidity.

Step three: Wait a year or two.

Step four: Walk up to it and punch it in the face.