Double caster

[Heartspan]

I was hoping that with the new multiclassing rules, it would be more feasable for a wizard/cleric hybrid build. However, i dont know the best way to do this... suggestions please? (I'm not going for perfect, im going for usable)

[Arc-Royal]

Something to bear in mind if you want to pull this off: You need to meet the multiclass prerequisites for both classes you want to multiclass into (meaning a minimum of 13 INT and WIS). Also, your number of spells known and prepared is separate for each class.

I don't have time to pull a build together at the moment, but I'll check back in on this thread this evening in case no one else does.

[Jlooney]

I also remember a chart in the phb (afb otherwise I'd give a page number) you don't gain full casting slots for your class. However you can use any a lot for either class iirc.

As far as a build goes a little more infoation would be helpful.

[Regulas]

You would basically get full Spell slots, but loose out on higher level slots in exchange for more spell variety.

The big question would be what is it you are expecting to get out of each class? As hybirds usually do better when you are splashing a few levels for a specific feature rather then just splitting 50/50.

I would probably rather just play as a full in one and either take the domain or ritual caster or whichever else to get access to other spells.

[Heartspan]

I was hoping to use alot of scaling spells, like cure wounds and magic missile, so that i could both heal, and damage and maybe field control. Like take 3 levels in cleric then the rest in wizard so i still get high level wiz spells

[Valefor Rathan]

Paladin/Warlock kinda works - they both use CHA

Eldritch Knight/Sorcerer is another one I've had pointed out to me.

[Edge of Dreams]

It's simple.

Take less than 20 levels in Cleric. Take the rest in Wizard.

BAM, you're a Cleric/Wizard hybrid.

Exactly how many levels of each just depends on which spells and class features are most important to you.

[Person_Man]

I was hoping to use alot of scaling spells, like cure wounds and magic missile, so that i could both heal, and damage and maybe field control. Like take 3 levels in cleric then the rest in wizard so i still get high level wiz spells

With the exception of cantrips, by default spells do not scale in 5E. You must cast spells out of a higher level slot in order for them to deal more damage. For example, Magic Missile creates 1 additional dart for each spell level above 1st used to cast it. (ie, if you're foolish and use a 9th level slot to cast it, it creates 11 missiles that deal 1d4 + 1 damage each).

Also, MAD combinations are usually highly inadvisable unless you roll dice to generate your ability scores, and roll very highly at least three or four times.

[odigity]

With the exception of cantrips, by default spells do not scale in 5E. You must cast spells out of a higher level slot in order for them to deal more damage. For example, Magic Missile creates 1 additional dart for each spell level above 1st used to cast it. (ie, if you're foolish and use a 9th level slot to cast it, it creates 11 missiles that deal 1d4 + 1 damage each).

It's not obvious to me that the person you were replying to didn't already know that. I got the impression they meant the following:

- a Wizard/Cleric mix will still get 9th lvl slots, but not 9th lvl spells for either class (unless they go 17/3 or greater)
- however, you can still get higher-level power out of your lower-level spells by spefically focusing on those that scale
- and by scale, obviously meaning by spell slot, since only cantrips scale for free by character level

It's not a terrible concept if you value versatility over high-level spells.

A 9/11 combination will get you 5th lvl spells in one class and 6th lvl spells in the other. And you can shift the balance in either direction based on how much you care about each class's spells in the marginal levels.


Also, MAD combinations are usually highly inadvisable unless you roll dice to generate your ability scores, and roll very highly at least three or four times.

It's no worse than being a Paladin. A Paladin wants to max Str/Cha, but still cares about Dex/Con. A Cleric/Wizard hybrid would want to max Int/Wis (hello skill checks!), but still cares about Dex/Con.

[Person_Man]

A 9/11 combination will get you 5th lvl spells in one class and 6th lvl spells in the other. And you can shift the balance in either direction based on how much you care about each class's spells in the marginal levels.

Yes, but consider how that progression would play out in an actual game. Lets say you go 11 levels of Cleric, everything works fine. Then you start taking levels of something else, like Wizard. Now everyone else in your party is getting 7th/8th/9th levels spells and high level amazing class abilities. But you're getting some new Cantrips and 1st/2nd/etc level spells and low level class abilities.



It's no worse than being a Paladin. A Paladin wants to max Str/Cha, but still cares about Dex/Con. A Cleric/Wizard hybrid would want to max Int/Wis (hello skill checks!), but still cares about Dex/Con.

You are correct. The Paladin, Monk, Barbarian, Arcane Trickster Rogue, Eldritch Knight Fighter, weapon dependent spellcasters (as opposed to cantrip dependent), and certain multi-class combinations are more MAD then other classes. They are numerically worse off then other classes if you use a point buy or standard array to determine your ability scores. (But they typically work fine if you roll for scores and roll high 3-4 times).

[odigity]

Yes, but consider how that progression would play out in an actual game. Lets say you go 11 levels of Cleric, everything works fine. Then you start taking levels of something else, like Wizard. Now everyone else in your party is getting 7th/8th/9th levels spells and high level amazing class abilities. But you're getting some new Cantrips and 1st/2nd/etc level spells and low level class abilities.

I'm aware. I wouldn't normally recommend it, but if you know what you're getting into and/or are really attached to the concept, it's not all bad. If there's no other Wizard in the party, you're still getting new, unique abilities that no one else has. And if you're picking spells that scale, then, for example, that Magic Missle you get at level 12 can be cast as a sixth level spell immediately.

[Heartspan]

It's not obvious to me that the person you were replying to didn't already know that. I got the impression they meant the following:

- a Wizard/Cleric mix will still get 9th lvl slots, but not 9th lvl spells for either class (unless they go 17/3 or greater)
- however, you can still get higher-level power out of your lower-level spells by spefically focusing on those that scale
- and by scale, obviously meaning by spell slot, since only cantrips scale for free by character level

It's not a terrible concept if you value versatility over high-level spells.

A 9/11 combination will get you 5th lvl spells in one class and 6th lvl spells in the other. And you can shift the balance in either direction based on how much you care about each class's spells in the marginal levels.


This is what i meant, yes.:smallsmile:

[Regulas]

Yes, but consider how that progression would play out in an actual game. Lets say you go 11 levels of Cleric, everything works fine. Then you start taking levels of something else, like Wizard. Now everyone else in your party is getting 7th/8th/9th levels spells and high level amazing class abilities. But you're getting some new Cantrips and 1st/2nd/etc level spells and low level class abilities.


Loosing out on the high level spells is the crappy part. But otherwise as for high level abilities from what I've seen a lot of them aren't significantly better then low level ones in fact by level 3 alone you will often have gotten some of the best abilities of some classes.

What I would say however is to keep in mind most campaigns won't last long past level 10. So 3/7 3/8 is a more likely realistic "endgame" expectation for what you may become [unless you are starting out your campaign at a really high level].

[odigity]

Loosing out on the high level spells is the crappy part. But otherwise as for high level abilities from what I've seen a lot of them aren't significantly better then low level ones in fact by level 3 alone you will often have gotten some of the best abilities of some classes.

What I would say however is to keep in mind most campaigns won't last long past level 10. So 3/7 3/8 is a more likely realistic "endgame" expectation for what you may become [unless you are starting out your campaign at a really high level].

That, plus the reduced number of spell slots in this edition for spell levels 6-9, have dampened my excitement about sticking with a full caster for the long haul vs enjoying the versatility of multiclassing.

How many have you played a Bard/Cleric/Druid/Sorcerer/Warlock/Wizard fom level 1 through 17-20? Did you feel the one 8th or 9th level slot/day was worth the wait and the levels?

[1of3]

Level 1 Cleric, then Wizard seems fine to me. You can get Armor proficiencies and Healing spells from Cleric, then everything that is good about Wizards. Maybe take a few more Cleric levels later on.

[Noldo]

Level 1 Cleric, then Wizard seems fine to me. You can get Armor proficiencies and Healing spells from Cleric, then everything that is good about Wizards. Maybe take a few more Cleric levels later on.

With no actual gameplay experience from 5E this would seem most reasonable suggestion. I would further speculate that second level in cleric should be taken at 7th level at earliest (i.e. once you have learned 3rd level Wizard spells, although you will end up with 4th level slots) and the third (and most likely last) level in cleric is probably best taken at 11th level at earliest (i.e. once you have grabbed two Ability Increases / Feats from Wizard chassis).

This would result in wizard that is sacrificing some OOMPH for healing (equal curing ability than non-Life clerics).