What is Kilkil?

[Tiri]

I know it's been a while since Kilkil has featured in the comic (and he probably won't again, at least not for a long time), but I was always curious as to why he had wings and how he could fly at least faster than Tarquin's Brontosaurus. Are there any obscure kobold subraces he could belong to that have wings that let them fly? I did think at first that he might have the Dragon Wings and Improved Dragon Wings feats, but those only allow him to fly at a speed of 30ft, his land speed, and I think the dinosaur's speed would have a speed of about 40-50ft per round.

I did also wonder why he was a bit redder and had a longer tail than the other kobolds, but I thought that was just because he was a Western kobold, as opposed to a Northern one (which is what I assume all the Linear Guild's other kobolds were).

[Keltest]

Barring word of Giant, I think the most likely explanation is either that the Brontosaurus wasn't traveling at top speed, or the Giant simply didn't care enough about the actual top speeds of the two creatures to completely redesign the scene around them.

[Bird]

I did also wonder why he was a bit redder and had a longer tail than the other kobolds, but I thought that was just because he was a Western kobold, as opposed to a Northern one (which is what I assume all the Linear Guild's other kobolds were).
Perhaps some combination of him having more dragon blood and the Giant wanting him to be visually distinctive.

[Gray Mage]

I'm pretty sure he's a Dragonwrought Kobold. It's a feat from Races of Dragon.

[Tiri]

Barring word of Giant, I think the most likely explanation is either that the Brontosaurus wasn't traveling at top speed, or the Giant simply didn't care enough about the actual top speeds of the two creatures to completely redesign the scene around them.

I suppose that is possible, but it was called the Brontosaurus EXPRESS, and the second explanation is unlikely because the scene in question turned out to be significantly important, as it resulted in the bounty for Ian Starshine being posted, which caused Haley to rush to get him, resulting the scene where Captain Amun-Zora recruited him to help fight for the Free City of Doom, which we wouldn't have been shown if it were not important in some way.


I'm pretty sure he's a
Dragonwrought Kobold. It's a feat from Races of Dragon.

I know what a Dragonwrought Kobold is, but Kilkil is clearly not one, as he was paralyzed by Holy Word.

[Gray Mage]

I know what a Dragonwrought Kobold is, but Kilkil is clearly not one, as he was paralyzed by Holy Word.

I'd figure Rich forgot that Dragons can't be paralyzed. It wouldn't be the first time something like this happened.

[ti'esar]

Are there any obscure kobold subraces he could belong to that have wings that let them fly?

There's a race of winged kobolds (with the Savage Species Winged template in 3E, but they date from earlier editions) called urds. However, I've always assumed that Kilkil's wings were a reflection of some kind of draconic heritage, since none of the other kobolds we saw on the Western Continent had the same reddish tinge to their scales.

[Porthos]

Rich has imported things from previous editions before, so Kilkil could be an urd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobold_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)#Kobold_subraces). Doing so could bypass whatever problems there are with Kilkil being a Dragonwrought Kobold, if he homebrewed the import.

EDIT::: And, ninja'ed. :smallsmile:

[Rogar Demonblud]

Which makes your avatar pretty ironic, given how often that happens to you. :smalltongue:

[Porthos]

Which makes your avatar pretty ironic, given how often that happens to you. :smalltongue:

A good ninja lulls others into a false sense of security. :smallcool:

===

Also, I'll put my record of ninja'ing others v being ninja'ed against almost anyone else's on this board. :smallwink:

[Tiri]

What does the winged template do?

[Keltest]

What does the winged template do?

Well, im just guessing mind you, but I suspect that it makes the templated creature have wings. :smalltongue:

[Tiri]

Well, im just guessing mind you, but I suspect that it makes the templated creature have wings. :smalltongue:

I meant what sort of fly speed would it give the creature possessing it.

[Kareasint]

Well, no one else has said it yet. So, I guess I will go ahead and say it.

Kilkil is more than likely a fan of energy drinks (Red Bull).

[gorocz]

I meant what sort of fly speed would it give the creature possessing it.

Believeable speeds appropriate to the needs and necessities of the relevant plot and the DM?

[BaronOfHell]

the second explanation [The Giant didn't care about the speed as listed by the rules] is unlikely because the scene in question turned out to be significantly important, as it resulted in the bounty for Ian Starshine being posted, which caused Haley to rush to get him, resulting the scene where Captain Amun-Zora recruited him to help fight for the Free City of Doom, which we wouldn't have been shown if it were not important in some way.

I do not agree with your reasoning here. There are 100 strips between the event of Kilkil flying ahead (815) and the first time we see the bounty on Ian (915). I believe Kilkil flying ahead was just one way that T could be distracted so Ian & Geoff could escape. I do not think The Giant would go out of his way to rewrite that scene just because the rules states the flying speeds do not match up. For a non-oots person it also feels more reasonable that flying is faster than walking.

In any case, even if something else had been used to distract Tarquin, whereby this thread wouldn't exist, Kilkil would still arrive as he did with the bounty, because everything happens at the speed of plot.

Also I think it's important to note that since in a story we're being fed a lot more important, or semi-linked, events than on average, displaying how events are linked does not mean those event could only happen in that particular way, it's basically backwards "in hindsight" reasoning. It'd have happened anyway, because that was how it was supposed to happen all along, the reasoning would only be slightly changed.

[littlebum2002]

I'm betting my money on him just having the Winged template, which i believe makes him an Urd.

[137beth]

He is a kobold with the Fly Faster than Brontosauruses template, which grants the base creature a fly speed faster than a brontosaurus.

[colanderman]

I suppose that is possible, but it was called the Brontosaurus EXPRESS

Note that etymologically, in the context of transport, "express" doesn't necessarily mean "higher speed"; it merely means "without intervening stops"; i.e., the train/brontosaurus/etc. is bound expressly for its destination.

(Yes I'm a barrel of fun at parties!)

[re_e]

I know it's been a while since Kilkil has featured in the comic (and he probably won't again, at least not for a long time), but I was always curious as to why he had wings and how he could fly at least faster than Tarquin's Brontosaurus. Are there any obscure kobold subraces he could belong to that have wings that let them fly? I did think at first that he might have the Dragon Wings and Improved Dragon Wings feats, but those only allow him to fly at a speed of 30ft, his land speed, and I think the dinosaur's speed would have a speed of about 40-50ft per round.

I did also wonder why he was a bit redder and had a longer tail than the other kobolds, but I thought that was just because he was a Western kobold, as opposed to a Northern one (which is what I assume all the Linear Guild's other kobolds were).

Even with improved dragon wings feat Kilkil can run at 120ft per round, while Tarquin's Brontosaurus walk at 40-50ft per round.

[martianmister]

What is Kilkil? A miserable little pile of secrets. It's impossible to determine his species without "Word of Giant".

[littlebum2002]

He is a kobold with the Fly Faster than Brontosauruses template, which grants the base creature a fly speed faster than a brontosaurus.

Is that from the same sourcebook as Tsukiko's Amazing Wight Making Spell?

[Onyavar]

About the matters of flying ahead: My guess is that the boarding ramps to the Brontosaurus Express and Kilkil's office are in different sections of the palace. Kilkil flying could have been a significant shortcut in comparison to travelling with them all the way to the docking ramps and then flying all the way (back?) through the palace.

Also, someone mentioned 100 strips passing. Kilkil leaves in 815 and reappears in 822, which is only seven strips absence.

[Sartharina]

Kobolds can have wings without being Dragonwrought. Being Dragonwrought in 3.5 merely allows a Kobold to take Wings at level 3 instead of having to take them at level 1.

[ti'esar]

I think people are definitely reading too much into the flight speed issue. Like the Mechane, I think it's pretty safe to say that Kilkil flies at the speed of plot. In fact, I suspect that sort of analysis is the exact reason why his species was never identified to begin with.

[137beth]

Is that from the same sourcebook as Tsukiko's Amazing Wight Making Spell?

Don't be ridiculous. Tsukiko's Amazing Wight Making Spell is from Complete Stick Figure Wights. The Fly Faster than Brontosauruses template is from Completely Sticking it to Movement Rules:smalltongue:

[Deliverance]

As a young kobold Kilkil always dreamed of become a clerk, one of those who by his selfless and tireless work keeps the bureaucracy running. In the high risk environment of the western continent, it should come as no surprise that he approached this by worthy goal by means of sorcery.

A few years of practicing sorcery and clerking left him a broken kobold, a sorry wreck suffering from the aptly named Tall Bookshelf Syndrome, that has been the bane of many short clerks, dreaming of making a magic that would compress knowledge, yet always failing his rolls against intimidation when meeting a bookshelf.

It was at the nadir of his life that enlightenment struck. Lowlevel and wretched he might be, but he was knowledgeable, oh, yes, having devoted his feats to skill focus(arcana) and other knowledge skills. If he couldn't conquer the bookshelves, he would conquer himself.

And thus it came to pass that Kilkil began the long, hard, struggle of self improvement, that eventually led him to having nine levels in dragon disciple. With the power of flight his no bookshelf could defeat Kilkil's desire to visit any shelf he wanted whenever he wanted, and as the one malicious bookshelf that tried to squash him discovered to its surprised, Kilkil was now of a stature that could laugh at such danger.

He is holding off on taking the 10th level of Dragon Disciple, because he isn't sure he'd like the person he'd be if he changed so thoroughly with dragon apotheosis, but who know what the future might bring?


Surely you didn't think Tarquin employed him and took him along in the improved linear guild just for the theme, did you? :smalltongue:

[Tiri]

Surely you didn't think Tarquin employed him and took him along in the improved linear guild just for the theme, did you? :smalltongue:

Actually, that's not too unlikely, given how useless he was in the pyramid and how he turned out to be at least 5 levels lower than the PCs anyway.

[Jay R]

He is a kobold with the Fly Faster than Brontosauruses template, which grants the base creature a fly speed faster than a brontosaurus.

That shouldn't be too difficult. Most Brontosauruses can't fly at all.

[Deliverance]

That shouldn't be too difficult. Most Brontosauruses can't fly at all.
That's what they WANT you to think. Brontosauruses are tricky bastards.

[SowZ]

Maybe he has a magic item that boosts move speed. Maybe his wings allow him to move at his base land speed and he has a permanencied expeditious retreat cast on him. I don't think it matters, and I doubt we are supposed to be able to extrapolate anything from it.

[Dissection]

Is the Brontosaurus an actual creature in D and D that has an actual speed? Because in real life large sauropod dinosaurs such as "Brontosaurus" are thought to have had a speed around 5 km/hr, which would only equate to somewhere around 26 feet per round

[Rogar Demonblud]

They aren't in the SRD, but the triceratops is and it has the standard 30 feet per round. So brontosauri are likely the same.

[Jay R]

That's what they WANT you to think. Brontosauruses are tricky bastards.

Darn it - they did it to me again. They caught me with their "we exist" scam back in the sixties.

[Keltest]

Darn it - they did it to me again. They caught me with their "we exist" scam back in the sixties.

Or maybe theyre catching you with their "We don't exist" scam now!

[Jay R]

Or maybe theyre catching you with their "We don't exist" scam now!

That's it - they're trying to get me to buy some flying non-existent brontosaurus toys. (They got me to buy non-flying brontosaurus toys back when I believed they existed.)

Well, forget it. My favorite dinosaur will never be a brontosaurus again. From now on, my favorite dinosaur will be a pteranodon, or a pterodactyl, or something else that won't stop being a real flying dinosaur.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

That's it - they're trying to get me to buy some flying non-existent brontosaurus toys. (They got me to buy non-flying brontosaurus toys back when I believed they existed.)

Well, forget it. My favorite dinosaur will never be a brontosaurus again. From now on, my favorite dinosaur will be a pteranodon, or a pterodactyl, or something else that won't stop being a real flying dinosaur.
I see the Pterosaur has hooked you with their "we are dinosaurs" scam.

[Randomguy]

The brontosaurus was probably encumbered, so that reduced its move speed enough to let Kilkil fly ahead of it.

[Jay R]

I see the Pterosaur has hooked you with their "we are dinosaurs" scam.

Dang! They got me again!

Ducks. My favorite dinosaur is now ducks.

But it's disillusioning the heart of the little boy I once was that brontosauruses, pterodactyls, and dimetrodons aren't dinosaurs, but ducks and chickens are.

------------

But ... but ... I asked for dinosaur toys. If brontosauruses don't really exist, why did Santa Claus bring me plastic brontosauruses?

[Keltest]

Dang! They got me again!

Ducks. My favorite dinosaur is now ducks.

But it's disillusioning the heart of the little boy I once was that brontosauruses, pterodactyls, and dimetrodons aren't dinosaurs, but ducks and chickens are.

------------

But ... but ... I asked for dinosaur toys. If brontosauruses don't really exist, why did Santa Claus bring me plastic brontosauruses?

Santa is the head dinosaur.

[littlebum2002]

Never mind. We're done here.