Help me create an Evil Cleric, L12

[Eliana Solange]

I'm creating an evil cleric character for a short L12 campaign. We probably won't level up much from there.

What we know about the campaign: It will take place in an urban setting, we will be in the service of an evil god (presumably whichever one my character is a cleric of). We all need to chose alignments within one step of LE. 4 PCs in the party

For understanding party balance, I think our other PCs are:

Dromite Sorcerer heading into Nightmare Spinner
Goliath Fighter 1 / Dragon Shaman 10
either something along the rogue/assassin lines or something along psion/psychic warrior lines

The cleric will need to be backup melee as well as filling other roles.

I was initially thinking in terms of undead summoning with Master of Shrouds levels. But in an urban setting, wandering around with undead minions is not subtle, so I'd need some more subtle tricks as well.

Any thoughts on a good character concept, and/or good race, evil god with good domains, interesting PrCs, dips, etc. I definitely want to go somewhere completely different with this character than one could with a good cleric. We have not played evil PCs before.

We can use pretty much any (non-setting-specific) 3.5 WoTC source materials, but please give sources for things in your replies so I will know where to look them up.

Starting stats are 18, 16, 16, 15, 15, 14 (generous generation method coupled with good rolls)

[(Un)Inspired]

Sounds like its time for a LE Sacred Fist. you're party-mates sound like thet're gonna lack power so its probably best not to CoDzilla the crap out of them. Go ahead and take a monk level, with those abilities you'll be kick-punching with the best of them.

[Eliana Solange]

Thanks. I'm kind of hoping to choose some path that would not normally be open to a good character, just because I don't usually have that opportunity. Any further thoughts?

[Venger]

you could always go with the classic sacrilegious fist instead of actual cleric. ur-priest stil uses the cleric list, so your role in-combat would be similar.

[Eliana Solange]

Interesting, but Ur-priest doesn't fit with the DM's plan for our "mission" to be in service of an evil god (since Ur-priests hate all gods).

[Venger]

Interesting, but Ur-priest doesn't fit with the DM's plan for our "mission" to be in service of an evil god (since Ur-priests hate all gods).

No they don't. An ur-priest can worship a defunct god that not many people believe in anymore if he likes. That's actually what the class was created for, hence the name.

[(Un)Inspired]

You could be a double agent. An ur-priest pretending to worship an evil god for even greater power.

You're party thinks that you're all together against the good guys but really you're on your own playing both sides against each other.

Suck on that both good and evil gods! Man I love Ur-priests.

[Venger]

You could be a double agent. An ur-priest pretending to worship an evil god for even greater power.

You're party thinks that you're all together against the good guys but really you're on your own playing both sides against each other.

Suck on that both good and evil gods! Man I love Ur-priests.

ur-priests are my favorite.

I always thought of them as leechers, nibbling little bits of files from a whole mess of different gods at once when they prepare spells, enough to make slots, but not enough for them to get caught. By the time one could try triangulating them, they'd already have logged off by finishing their hour of prep.

>ru stealin my spls
"Ya. wut r u gonna do about it?"
>call da citgaurd
"Good luck finding me, lawmen. im behind 7 veils of protection."

[(Un)Inspired]

An ur-priest that worships a god as a cover was my backstory for playing an ur-priest/crusader/RKV once. He went to Wee Jas' church regularly and out loud prayed and participated in ever technical aspect of worshiping her while simultaneously stealing spells and blaspheming her and all other gods in the privacy of his mind.

Worshiping Wee Jas gave him a cover for where he got his spells from so as not to raise party suspicions that he was an ur-priest and it actually granted him power by letting him enter this awesome prestige class.

[Venger]

An ur-priest that worships a god as a cover was my backstory for playing an ur-priest/crusader/RKV once. He went to Wee Jas' church regularly and out loud prayed and participated in ever technical aspect of worshiping her while simultaneously stealing spells and blaspheming her and all other gods in the privacy of his mind.

Worshiping Wee Jas gave him a cover for where he got his spells from so as not to raise party suspicions that he was an ur-priest and it actually granted him power by letting him enter this awesome prestige class.

I played an ur-priest once whose preternatural sense of ennui stemmed from his awareness that he was a character in a roleplaying game.

In his backstory, I said he was exposed, unprotected, while in the Far Realm, the unspeakable madness that he witnessed causing him to go past the far edge of insane and looping all the way around the other side of the continuum and becoming supersane, understanding the fundamental nature of the universe.

I fluffed his spells as him "gaming the system" in his words, by aping what clerics did, he found he could still gain magic in the same fashion that they did since the gods did not actually exist, being penned by a bunch of guys in the mid 1970s.

The crowning achievement, I think, was something that didn't come online til 18. After my ur-priest levels, I finished off with hierophant, since I was finally in a situation where I could use it, since my progression was done and it'd keep boosting my CL.

I picked "SLA" for one of my special abilities and took supernatural transformation for my feat.

What spell did I pick?

Miracle.

Supernatural transformation gives all kinds of goodies (no longer vulnerable to SR, no aoos, etc) but the part I was most interested in from a fluff perspective was its obviation of components.

From his perspective, up to twice a day, precisely the spell effect the team needed would simply... appear out of nowhere without any apparent action from him and often bypass obstacles that miracle normally has.

Once, a party member (his FWB) was turned to stone by a prismatic wall. Our party had no wizard or other way to cure it, so once the combat was over, my guy pricked his finger, leaned against her, and let one glistening teardrop fall from his eye onto her.

She changed back, asked how much time had passed since her rip van winkling (my guy had told her about the nature of the universe and she, for the most part ignored him, but picked up the occasional turn of phrase)

My character answered brusquely, as was his way and gave the miracle su ability the name that stuck with it for the rest of the campaign.

"Simple. Deus ex machina."

That was a great campaign.

[(Un)Inspired]

Venger, that's pretty great stuff.

That's a pretty amusing idea for a character. Sounds like it was a fun campaign.

[Ethelesin]

Sounds like its time for a LE Sacred Fist. you're party-mates sound like thet're gonna lack power so its probably best not to CoDzilla the crap out of them. Go ahead and take a monk level, with those abilities you'll be kick-punching with the best of them.

I second the idea of a Lawful Evil Sacred Fist, be the evil magic monk the world never knew it needed.

[Extra Anchovies]

Maybe Ur-Priest into Sacred Fist? Then you can call yourself an Ur-Fist!

[Venger]

you could always go with the classic sacrilegious fist instead of actual cleric. ur-priest stil uses the cleric list, so your role in-combat would be similar.


Maybe Ur-Priest into Sacred Fist? Then you can call yourself an Ur-Fist!

psst! that's what a sacrilegious fist is.


Venger, that's pretty great stuff.

That's a pretty amusing idea for a character. Sounds like it was a fun campaign.

Thanks.

I was very proud of it. The way I got into it is sort of odd too:

It had initially started because in our Eberron game (another, very good story) we'd reached a climactic point and were destroying some ring-gate like structures.

My guy (chameleon) and the party's wizard peppered it with sound lances, our "brute" (dervish) insisted on bonking it with her sword despite our warnings that it was probably going to blow up and something terrible would happen to her.

All four of us were caught in the blast and had to make an enormous ref save.

psyrog made it with evasion, I made it with mimic class feature, wizard made it with ruin delver's fortune, and the dervish, depsite a good ref and dex, managed to fail.

the DM explained that the save was higher because she was standing right next to the gate, hitting it with a sword.

oops.

there was a huge explosion, all the bad guys next to the gate were killed with shards, and the dervish was simply gone. we figured she had been vaporized by the blast since she was touching the thing and our divination magic couldn't find her

we leveled up, the dervish's player brought in a new character (warforged sacred fist) the next week, and we continued as normal.

I initially suspected that he'd asked the DM for some way to switch to a new character due to how bad he was at everything, but his surprise when his character was killed off made me suspect otherwise. he continued to, against our advice, continue to play his new character stupid as well (walking over to pit fiends and trying to punch them with his fists. really?) so I later found out this was not the case, and his character's disappearance had been an honest fluke.

About a month or so later, the DM asked us if we wanted to start a secondary campaign. He explained the dervish had been teleported to the plane of shadow by the ensuing explosion. He asked if we wanted to play a planescape game. He told us to go nuts and make appropriately weird characters. I wanted to impress him, so began to plot and scheme.

We all more or less jumped at the chance, dervish's player would get to reprise his role as dervish, wizard built a hellfire warlock, psyrog built a drunken master, and I went with ur-priest.

For backstory, I said he had started life as a character in the Firefly RPG, specifically Mal, and when fleeing from imperial forces the alliance, his crew advanced to ludicrous speed and in doing so, he glimpsed the far realm through a black hole (leading to the previously mentioned result)

irrevocably changed, he tried to steer the ship back there to see what else he could learn. his crewmates, not having had the same reaction, spaced him and he fell through the black hole to limbo where he met the drunken master. he explained the situation to her, told her they had to grind until he got 5ths, and then they could leave. she was down, so they killed monsters together and then one day he was suddenly able to just teleport them to the plane of shadow, where the campaign started.

he would often make reference to the past continuity of the show, but obviously, I RPed him very differently. One noteworthy change was his name. after his awakening, he began to pronunce it "maul" but still spell it the same, like Mal from "Inception," in what he thought was a clever homage and way from distancing himself

the basic structure for the sessions (mostly one-offs) was that the warlock owned a weird haunted house. in order to un-haunt each room, we'd go into it, be teleported to some strange scenario, and once we'd overcome it, the house would be usable in the future.

from the beginning of the campaign (since we started at 10) my guy had the power to send the dervish home to eberron. he just chose not to, because he thought it was funny, and she never actually asked.

one time, we had to solve a murder mystery amongst the clergy in ancient mesopotamia.

my guy offered himself as an expert, since he was an ur-priest.

[Eliana Solange]

Ur-Priest would be more tempting if you could get into it by level 3, so I could get the capstone ability by level 12 ;-) If I don't want to go the Sacrilegious Fist route, is it worth doing Ur-Priest if you can't get all 10 levels? Although it gets a few nice abilities, it primarily seems like an underpowered cleric (lacking domain access, lower level spells since you can't start in it right away).

[Extra Anchovies]

psst! that's what a sacrilegious fist is.

That's what I get for not reading half the thread :smallredface:

[Rebel7284]

Sacred Fist is only worth it if you go with text-over-table (RAW) interpretation and give them full casting progression.


Ur-Priest would be more tempting if you could get into it by level 3, so I could get the capstone ability by level 12 ;-) If I don't want to go the Sacrilegious Fist route, is it worth doing Ur-Priest if you can't get all 10 levels? Although it gets a few nice abilities, it primarily seems like an underpowered cleric (lacking domain access, lower level spells since you can't start in it right away).

You don't take Ur Priest because of abilities - most people PrC out after 2 levels. You take it because of fast progression casting and the ability to dip other things before entering it to pick up other abilities.

Note that Cleric 12 gets 6th level spells and Ur Priest 7 gets 7th level spells. Ur Priests get less spell slots, but eh?

Some fun entries into Ur Priest that pick up great abilities:
Hexblade 2+/Paladin of Tyranny 2+ = Charisma to saves twice.
Duskblade 3/Monk 2 = Channel divine spells into your attacks and qualify for sacred fist.
Wizard 4/High Fort Save Class 1 = Mystic Theurge that does not suck.
Binder 1/Warlock 1/Dragonfire Adept 1/X2 = Your diplomacy checks make people friendly very very fast.

If you chose to go cleric, of course try to make sure you only lose one caster level tops so you keep 6th level spells. Take a look at Ordained Champion 3, Contemplative 1.

[Venger]

Ur-Priest would be more tempting if you could get into it by level 3, so I could get the capstone ability by level 12 ;-) If I don't want to go the Sacrilegious Fist route, is it worth doing Ur-Priest if you can't get all 10 levels? Although it gets a few nice abilities, it primarily seems like an underpowered cleric (lacking domain access, lower level spells since you can't start in it right away).

You can't due to skill hardcaps. Yes, most people opt out of ur-priest after 2 levels and just progress casting since they aren't interested in its other class features.

It is not an underpowered cleric, you get a new spell level every level. you're outstripping the cleric by lvl 12, slinging 7ths while he's still on 6ths. he doesn't catch up til level 17.



Sacred Fist is only worth it if you go with text-over-table (RAW) interpretation and give them full casting progression.

You don't take Ur Priest because of abilities - most people PrC out after 2 levels. You take it because of fast progression casting and the ability to dip other things before entering it to pick up other abilities.

Note that Cleric 12 gets 6th level spells and Ur Priest 7 gets 7th level spells. Ur Priests get less spell slots, but eh?

Some fun entries into Ur Priest that pick up great abilities:
Hexblade 2+/Paladin of Tyranny 2+ = Charisma to saves twice.
Duskblade 3/Monk 2 = Channel divine spells into your attacks and qualify for sacred fist.
Wizard 4/High Fort Save Class 1 = Mystic Theurge that does not suck.
Binder 1/Warlock 1/Dragonfire Adept 1/X2 = Your diplomacy checks make people friendly very very fast.

If you chose to go cleric, of course try to make sure you only lose one caster level tops so you keep 6th level spells. Take a look at Ordained Champion 3, Contemplative 1.
well, since text over table is RAW, there shouldn't be any ifs about it, that's how the rules work.

[Extra Anchovies]

Sacred Fist is only worth it if you go with text-over-table (RAW) interpretation and give them full casting progression.

I still don't get why this is a question. Text-over-table always wins, very explicitly so. It's in the PHB errata, and the DMG errata, and the MM errata, and when those three books agree with each other, it's generally a good idea to listen to them.

[Rebel7284]

I still don't get why this is a question. Text-over-table always wins, very explicitly so. It's in the PHB errata, and the DMG errata, and the MM errata, and when those three books agree with each other, it's generally a good idea to listen to them.

1. Not everyone knows about the errata.
2. Trying to play the game by RAW is insanity anyway, so when RAI is questionable, houserules often make the game better.

[Venger]

I still don't get why this is a question. Text-over-table always wins, very explicitly so. It's in the PHB errata, and the DMG errata, and the MM errata, and when those three books agree with each other, it's generally a good idea to listen to them.

It's not even errata, it's the most basic rule in the game: primary trumps secondary. Text is primary, table is secondary.

[Jagernaut]

Might I recommend something a bit different with the Eldritch Disciple? Warlock 4/ Binder 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Eldritch Disciple 2/ Hellfire Warlock 3 nets you some interesting things. Amitdly it is much more of a warlock than a cleric, but with 3rd level cleric spells you can do some fun things with a glaivelock. Divine power helps shore up your melee abilities, and there are lot of useful buffs from the cleric list. Worshiping Tenebrous fits the flavor of both Ur-Priest and Binder. Binder allows you to bind Naberius which can heal the con damage from Hellfire Warlock. All in all I find it flavorful and usually powerful enough for most tables.

[Eliana Solange]

Note that Cleric 12 gets 6th level spells and Ur Priest 7 gets 7th level spells. Ur Priests get less spell slots, but eh?

I hadn't noticed that the progression was different. That definitely makes it more appealing. Thanks for all the suggestions, which I'll have to read in more detail when I have time to look everything up. :D

[Urpriest]

Despite being an Urpriest myself, I'm going to suggest the other direction. :smallwink:

Master of Shrouds is cool, but at this level it's not going to be all that strong. It's coolest at the lowest levels, when nobody can deal with incorporeal undead. It's not worthless at level 12, but it's definitely starting to show its age.

You can still go undead-focused for a city campaign, but you're going to have to be a bit smarter about how you store them. Portable Holes tend to be nice, as does the Smoky Confinement spell.

There are a decent number of tactics available to evil clerics that aren't available to good ones. Consumptive Field (and Greater Consumptive Field) can lead to massive CL boosts, allowing you to land Blasphemy spells reliably. The rules for human sacrifice in the BoVD give you various handy benefits. I could see just going for a "good stuff" build, maybe with Ordained Champion of Hextor for one of the PrCs.

[Eliana Solange]

Despite being an Urpriest myself, I'm going to suggest the other direction.

Which other direction exactly? Standard evil cleric? I was just starting to warm up to the Ur-Priest ;-)

[Rebel7284]

Which other direction exactly? Standard evil cleric? I was just starting to warm up to the Ur-Priest ;-)

Ur-Priest is trying to mislead you! He wants to keep the fast spell progression for himself while stealing power from your gods and relegating you to puny 6th level spells! Note that bluff is a class skill for him!

[Eliana Solange]

Ur-Priest is trying to mislead you! He wants to keep the fast spell progression for himself while stealing power from your gods and relegating you to puny 6th level spells! Note that bluff is a class skill for him!

:smallbiggrin:

(10 chars)

[Eliana Solange]

Any thoughts on the Nightcloak as part of one of these possible combinations?

[Eliana Solange]

This Ur-Priest entry suggestion is most intriguing to me right now:
Hexblade 2+/Paladin of Tyranny 2+ = Charisma to saves twice.

Any race suggestions other than Human?

It looks like I might not be able to get 5 ranks in Knowledge (Planes) with that combo though (in only 5 levels anyhow) since it is cross-class in both.

[Eliana Solange]

Looks like I could do Human Paragon 1 / Hexblade 2 / Paladin of Tyrrany 2 -- unfortunate to lose the Divine Health from Paladin 3 though. Though I can get it back with a dip of Contemplative later, which is a no-brainer (assuming the DM permits it, given the special prerequisite)

Are there other tricks for this -- from looking at the Sacrilegious Fist descriptions, it's unclear how they get all the skills needed also.

[Urpriest]

This Ur-Priest entry suggestion is most intriguing to me right now:
Hexblade 2+/Paladin of Tyranny 2+ = Charisma to saves twice.

Any race suggestions other than Human?

It looks like I might not be able to get 5 ranks in Knowledge (Planes) with that combo though (in only 5 levels anyhow) since it is cross-class in both.

Illumian could be interesting, if you want to be gish-y. You can get to determine bonus spells based on Str, for example.

For the Knowledge ranks, you'd need to pick it up as a class skill with a feat, like Knowledge Devotion.

[Eliana Solange]

Factotum looks like an interesting first level as well. So that could look like:

Factotum 1 / Hexblade 2 / Paladin of Tyranny 2 / Ur Priest 2+ and maybe something else up to 11 total / Contemplative 1

[Venger]

Factotum looks like an interesting first level as well. So that could look like:

Factotum 1 / Hexblade 2 / Paladin of Tyranny 2 / Ur Priest 2+ and maybe something else up to 11 total / Contemplative 1

divine health isn't really that useful, so you're not missing anything by not getting it from pally, especially given all the cleric spells you'll have. that said, contemplative's extra domains are pretty sweet.

if you're gonna go factotum, I'm assuming you'll nab able learner to obviate ur-priest's ridiculous skillreqs. some kind of int-based casting would likely be useful, take it til you get 2nds and then theurge with ur-priest. or if you like other subsystems, you could do that too, like sapphire hierarch or psychic theurge.

[Petrocorus]

Would inspire greatness + psychic reform be available for you?

REmember also about the generic classes from UA. Generic Warrior 1 or 2 is the same than Fighter 1 or 2, but you get to choose the skills and the save.

[Eliana Solange]

No Ur-Priest -- after discussion with the DM, this breaks the campaign hook he was planning (which is partly intended to avoid inter-party backstabbing, for good out-of-game reasons).

So thoughts on a standard cleric path would be appreciated. Thanks :)

[Urpriest]

No Ur-Priest -- after discussion with the DM, this breaks the campaign hook he was planning (which is partly intended to avoid inter-party backstabbing, for good out-of-game reasons).

So thoughts on a standard cleric path would be appreciated. Thanks :)

I'd definitely at least consider doing some undead-making, even if you need to be creative in how you hide them. This is the canonical guide (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2733.0). The nice thing is you don't need to spend a lot of resources on it if you don't feel like it, just being a Cleric is enough for it to be a solid thing you can do.

Bone Knight and Ordained Champion are both pretty cool. I'd either make a build with them, or a build with Crusader and Ruby Knight Vindicator, depending on whether you favor Hextor and immunities/cool class features or Wee Jas and maneuvers.

[Rebel7284]

While RKVs make amazing gishes due to the extra actions you get (one of the few things I think is worth losing 6th level spells for), Wee Jas isn't exactly an evil goddess. She's an awesome goddess with a complex portfolio, probably based on Hecate, but she is not evil.

[Urpriest]

While RKVs make amazing gishes due to the extra actions you get (one of the few things I think is worth losing 6th level spells for), Wee Jas isn't exactly an evil goddess. She's an awesome goddess with a complex portfolio, probably based on Hecate, but she is not evil.

Sure, but she probably has LE religious orders. Even at level 12 you may not be direct servants of a deity.

[Rebel7284]

Sure, but she probably has LE religious orders. Even at level 12 you may not be direct servants of a deity.

Very true! but note:


What we know about the campaign: It will take place in an urban setting, we will be in the service of an evil god (presumably whichever one my character is a cleric of).

As the OP couldn't play an Ur-Priest, I assume the evil god part is important. If Lawful Neutral is fine and you want to rock out with your stance out, then RKV is amazing exactly at level 12.

[Petrocorus]

Mandatory Handbook Index (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=skifnivd54dv5g3ll4j1n3rqb4&topic=399.0) on which you can find several Cleric Handbooks.

And here (http://home.comcast.net/~ftm3/ASMoNM/domains.html) is a very good list of cleric domains.

If you go Cleric, i'd advise you to go Cloistered Cleric (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric). More Skill points and one more domain.

Among the best domains, you have Trickery and Travel.

What is the setting? Homebrew?

[Eliana Solange]

Ordained Champion looks quite interesting, and Hextor was the DM's first choice of god to design the campaign around, so that's a plus. Hextor doesn't grant access to Trickery or Travel though.

As a backup melee, and especially if I go Ordained Champion, it seems like Cloistered Cleric might be a bad idea?

[Extra Anchovies]

Ordained Champion looks quite interesting, and Hextor was the DM's first choice of god to design the campaign around, so that's a plus. Hextor doesn't grant access to Trickery or Travel though.

As a backup melee, and especially if I go Ordained Champion, it seems like Cloistered Cleric might be a bad idea?

It can be tricky, but still works fine with the right preparation. Divine Power, after all, gives you BAB = character level (not caster level, mind you). CloiCler works fine as a tank with DMM in play, but otherwise you'll want vanilla cleric.

[Urpriest]

It can be tricky, but still works fine with the right preparation. Divine Power, after all, gives you BAB = character level (not caster level, mind you). CloiCler works fine as a tank with DMM in play, but otherwise you'll want vanilla cleric.

Yeah, it's probably going to boil down to whether your DM is willing to allow Nightstick stacking, or whether you can otherwise scrounge up the turn attempts. Even without you can have Divine Power Persisted, but you might not have room for much else.

[Petrocorus]

Cloistered Cleric 4/Church Inquisitor 3/PrC Paladin 2/Sacred Exorcist 10/Contemplative 1

Perfectly playable at level 12. Not the most badass cleric, but good enough.

[Urpriest]

Cloistered Cleric 4/Church Inquisitor 3/PrC Paladin 2/Sacred Exorcist 10/Contemplative 1

Perfectly playable at level 12. Not the most badass cleric, but good enough.

Sacred Exorcist and Church Inquisitor are definitely not options for this character, and PrC Paladin would need to be "of Tyranny".

[Petrocorus]

Sacred Exorcist and Church Inquisitor are definitely not options for this character, and PrC Paladin would need to be "of Tyranny".

Well, i was thinkig about LE adaptations. Should indeed have made that clear.
But, anyway, you're right, better to use genuinely evil PrC.

[(Un)Inspired]

Wait, your DM wants you all to be evil but you're not allowed to do any back stabbing?

[Urpriest]

Wait, your DM wants you all to be evil but you're not allowed to do any back stabbing?

Evil is allowed to cooperate sometimes. Can't take over the world without working together a bit. :smallwink:

[charlesk]

Wait, your DM wants you all to be evil but you're not allowed to do any back stabbing?

For context, all the participants are in the same family, and there's one youngish player. Thus the "limited evil" stuff. :)

[Venger]

Cloistered Cleric 4/Church Inquisitor 3/PrC Paladin 2/Sacred Exorcist 10/Contemplative 1

Perfectly playable at level 12. Not the most badass cleric, but good enough.

why do you have 4 levels of CC? you only need 3 to nab zone of truth for church inquisitor.


Wait, your DM wants you all to be evil but you're not allowed to do any back stabbing?

evil ≠*disruptive player.

[Petrocorus]

why do you have 4 levels of CC? you only need 3 to nab zone of truth for church inquisitor.


To square the BAB for Pr Paladin.

But there's certainly room for improvement.

[Venger]

To square the BAB for Pr Paladin.

But there's certainly room for improvement.

cloistered cleric's 1/2, so 3 lvls give +1.
church inquisitor's average, so 4 lvls give +3.
prestige pally's req is 4

just go cc3/inquisitor4/prc pally 2/SE 10/contemplative 2. pierce disguise is suuuuuuuper handy, especially in an intrigue game, plus it's a lot better than the Nothing that every single level of cleric after 1 offers you.

[Petrocorus]

cloistered cleric's 1/2, so 3 lvls give +1.
church inquisitor's average, so 4 lvls give +3.
prestige pally's req is 4

just go cc3/inquisitor4/prc pally 2/SE 10/contemplative 2. pierce disguise is suuuuuuuper handy, especially in an intrigue game, plus it's a lot better than the Nothing that every single level of cleric after 1 offers you.

You're right. Thanks.

[Venger]

You're right. Thanks.

happy to be of assistance. you're welcome.

[Eliana Solange]

DM is very unlikely to allow "evil versions" of PrCs intended for good characters.

I'm aiming to lose at most 1 level of spell casting, so I will still get 6th level spells, unless the trade off is really worthwhile.

[Urpriest]

DM is very unlikely to allow "evil versions" of PrCs intended for good characters.

I'm aiming to lose at most 1 level of spell casting, so I will still get 6th level spells, unless the trade off is really worthwhile.

Hmm...yeah, Ordained Champion slows you down a bit too much then. Bone Knight is still viable, but it might be a bit too blatant. You could hide the armor under a cloak, though, and at least it gives you a nice bunch of immunities.

[Petrocorus]

Hmm...yeah, Ordained Champion slows you down a bit too much then. Bone Knight is still viable, but it might be a bit too blatant. You could hide the armor under a cloak, though, and at least it gives you a nice bunch of immunities.

3 level of ordained champion already give some cool goodies.

Out of my head, i don't really see many Cleric PrC good at gishing and available to evil PC.

[Eliana Solange]

I'm definitely in for 3 levels of Ordained Champion. Bone Knight also loses a level of spellcasting at first level, so I probably won't do both of those. I'll probably do 1-2 levels of Contemplative (but I'll need to come up with a back story for how my level 10 character happened to have a direct encounter with a pit fiend or direct servant of Hextor ;-) )

[Urpriest]

I'm definitely in for 3 levels of Ordained Champion. Bone Knight also loses a level of spellcasting at first level, so I probably won't do both of those. I'll probably do 1-2 levels of Contemplative (but I'll need to come up with a back story for how my level 10 character happened to have a direct encounter with a pit fiend or direct servant of Hextor ;-) )

You guys are supposed to be fairly direct servants of your god, right? Your DM will probably support having you have been called by a Proxy of Hextor or the like at level 10 to assemble the group for your dread purpose.

If you're using Ordained Champion for the "evil PrC" flavor, the rest can be lots of "good stuff". Divine Oracle is pretty cool, gives you Evasion you can use in Full Plate. There are a few other Cleric PrCs that are just generically nice. If Prestige Paladin of Tyranny is available (technically doesn't exist, but lots of DMs who post here fudge it) then it's a good one-level dip.

[Eliana Solange]

So... help me out with Necromancy. Here's what I think I understand so far.

In the (I suspect unlikely) event that we are fighting undead, I could use a rebuke attempt to rebuke and possibly control lower level undeads. But any undead that I might take control of in that manner would be pretty much toast if we came into contact with a cleric of our level, who could likely destroy them. Not that it hurts to have a little cannon fodder, but... that doesn't seem all that useful. And if I take levels in Divine Oracle (not sure if I will do so or not) my turning level will be lower than my CL, I believe, so that will further reduce the HD maximum of anything I could command in this way.

So more likely, if I want some undead minions that are going to be of real use to us, I'm going to have to animate them. So say we kill some appropriate CR level monster. We throw the corpse into a bag of holding and take it back to our temple/lair, save up corpses until we have 4xCL(11) HD worth of critters, desecrate a shrine and cast animate dead. This costs 25 gp for the desecration, and up to 44 x 25 gp for the animate for a total of 1125 gp. And now what exactly do we have? Do I decide if I want skeletons or zombies? Is this worthwhile "as is" or do I really need Awaken Undead to make them useful? (This would require me to take the Deathbound domain, which I'm not sure I have access to -- the Spell Compendium just says to use you discretion on which gods would grant access to those domains. Hextor isn't that into undead as far as I can tell, but he certainly has no problem using them to serve his needs.)

I did try reading the handbook here http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1049211 but for someone who is totally new to necromancy, it's pretty overwhelming.

ETA: I created a new thread for the necromancy question here http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?385771-Help-me-out-with-Necromancy since it seems like it's more suited to a separate thread than to drifting here. Thanks for all the help so far!