Noctumancer early entry/Build advice.

[Ethelesin]

Trying to weasel my way into this class as fast as possible, so far sorceror1/Shadowcaster3/NoctumancerX seems to be the way to go, taking precocious apprentice at level one. The skill requirements take care of themselves pretty much. Any other ways of accomplishing this? Or am i on the right track.

[Extra Anchovies]

None that I know of. Just be sure to take Mystic Theurge afterwards for dual ninth-level casting :smallwink:

Also, any reason why you're using Sorcerer instead of Wizard? The Int synergy plus having spontaneous on one side of a theurge build and prepared on the other makes it a wholly superior option from an optimization perspective, if that's what you're going for.

[Ethelesin]

While highest level mystery available is determined by Int, the DCs are Charisma based, sorceror for synergy and i was always more of a "magic in the blood" kinda guy anyways besides, some of the sorceror specific feats are super cool and drenched in flavor.

Also, not exactly optimizing just trying to cook up some new characters.

[Venger]

Trying to weasel my way into this class as fast as possible, so far sorceror1/Shadowcaster3/NoctumancerX seems to be the way to go, taking precocious apprentice at level one. The skill requirements take care of themselves pretty much. Any other ways of accomplishing this? Or am i on the right track.

that's it. there's no equivalent precocious apprentice for shadow magic, and the skill hardcaps are technically surmountable via primary contact, but that requires 4 feats, so is in no way worth it and will not get you in any faster than 5.

[Ethelesin]

that's it. there's no equivalent precocious apprentice for shadow magic, and the skill hardcaps are technically surmountable via primary contact, but that requires 4 feats, so is in no way worth it and will not get you in any faster than 5.

Well, guess the final build is gonna be something like Sorceror1/Shadowcaster3/Noctumancer10/Sorceror+1/shadowcaster+5, unless anyones got a better suggestion for those last six levels?

[Marlowe]

Maybe go Master of Shadows for those last few levels?

Pick up Combat Casting and a Martial Proficiency somewhere along the line and go Abjurant Champion?

Not a lot I can think of.

[Troacctid]

Shadowcasters have a special exception that lets them count as either half of a Mystic Theurge (ToM p117). So there's your last six levels there.

[Ethelesin]

Master of shadows seems fun, though the caster level lost really bites in a "theurge" build like this.

Gotta admit, never saw the thing with being able to count as either arcane or divine half of a MT.

I suppose a good place to start tinkering would be something along the lines of "Sorceror1/Shadowcaster3/Noctumancer10/MysticTheurge6"
Or perhaps "Sorceror1/Shadowcaster3/Noctumancer10/MysticTheurge5/shadowcaster+1" Since theres not much to be gained from an odd level of sorceror casting (besides more spells per day, wich i get plenty of already due to charisma focus in the first place)

[Extra Anchovies]

One level of Shadow Adept (Player's Guide to Faerûn) can boost your normal spells (makes them harder to dispel and stuff), and is thematically fitting.

[Ethelesin]

Not too keen on the feat tax but shadow adept seems like a neat boost to the sorcerous side, something like this perhaps? "Sorceror1/Shadowcaster3/Noctumancer10/ShadowAdept1/MysticTheurge4/Shadowcaster+1" or "Sorceror1/Shadowcaster3/Noctumancer10/ShadowAdept1/Shadowcaster+5"?

[Extra Anchovies]

Wherever you want, basically. In the Noctumancer build I have prepared (which uses wizard entry), I put it at level 10, right after Noctumancer 5.

[Ethelesin]

Gotta ask, why the wizard entry? I know people are (generally) really keen on the whole prepared > spontaneous casters thing but it seems to me like you're just inviting MAD?

[Extra Anchovies]

Gotta ask, why the wizard entry? I know people are (generally) really keen on the whole prepared > spontaneous casters thing but it seems to me like you're just inviting MAD?

The mystery selection was mostly countermagic non-targeted BFC (with some summoning later on thanks to the Shadow Calling path), so I didn't need save DCs for the mysteries; it's also built using the Shadowcaster's designer's unofficial fixes, one of which is Int-based bonus mystery uses per day. I also wanted Shadowcasting to cover the stuff I'd need every day (the aforementioned countermagic/BFC mix) and Wizard casting would cover the more situational things.

[Ethelesin]

Checked up on the unofficial fixes thing. Apparantly he posted a later update that made a few changes to his original fix. Gonna CnP it.

1) Charisma determines the DC to save against your mysteries. Intelligence determines the highest level mystery you can cast.

2) Grant bonus mysteries per day based on Charisma. These would work just like bonus spells. For instance, if your Cha is 14, you can cast one extra mystery of 1st-level equivalent and one of 2nd-level equivalent per day. (Note that each mystery does give an equivalent level, even though you don't learn them by level.)

3) Eliminate the rule that says you have to take mysteries in a given Path in order. If you want to jump around, so as to broaden your versatility, you can.

4) Within a category—Apprentice, Initiate, Master—you must have at least two mysteries of any given level before you can take any mysteries of the next higher level. For instance, you must have two 1st-level mysteries before you can take any 2nds, and at least two 2nds before you can take any 3rds.

5) Eliminate the rule that says you get a bonus feat equal to half the number of paths you have access to. Instead, you get a bonus feat equal to the total number of Paths you complete. Thus, while you are no longer required to take the entirety of a given Path, there's still encouragement to do so.

6) You may “swap out” mysteries, just as a sorcerer does spells known. If you “un-complete” a Path in this way, however, you lose access to the bonus feat you gained from completing that Path. (You can regain access by re-completing the Path, completing a different Path and choosing that feat as your new bonus, or selecting that feat as a normal feat at your next opportunity.)

7) Once your Apprentice Mysteries become supernatural abilities, change the save DC from 10 + equivalent spell level + Cha to 10 + 1/2 caster level + Cha. This makes them useful even against high-HD opponents, and follows the pattern for other supernatural abilities.