Magical IVF in 3.5

[Heikold]

Okay, this is going to sound really odd, but the issue has arisen in a game that I'm playing in.

Our party's rogue who happens to be a lesbian, has decided that she wants to have children with her partner. This may be due to her father threatening to cut off her inheritance if she doesn't have a child, but we're not sure as she tends to keep her cards close to her chest.

Either way, whilst I've never come across it, is there any form of spell, probably designed for making cross breeds, that could combine DNA from characters of the same gender so that they can have a child? The birth wouldn't necessarily have to be natural.

[Bluydee]

Belt of Genderchange exists. Use it, get a baby, then throw it away.

[Heikold]

Belt of Genderchange exists. Use it, get a baby, then throw it away.

That's far simpler than what I was thinking... I suppose Polymorph or Alter Self would work too.

Good shout!

[Heikold]

Okay, she's not particularly sold on the gender changing front even if it's temporary. Any other options?

[Inevitability]

Okay, she's not particularly sold on the gender changing front even if it's temporary. Any other options?

Who needs to be sold on things nowadays? Use Mindrape and she'll be totally okay with it. Remove the spell afterwards. Rogue's got a baby, mission complete.

Also, I am pretty sure the BOEF will have something for it.

[Heikold]

Who needs to be sold on things nowadays? Use Mindrape and she'll be totally okay with it. Remove the spell afterwards. Rogue's got a baby, mission complete.

Also, I am pretty sure the BOEF will have something for it.

So the plan to help out the lesbian couple is to turn one of them into a straight male who's happy with being a straight male and to turn the other woman straight? Whilst, in a deeply disturbing way, quite funny, I think the party paladin will probably beat me to death with my own spellbook if I suggest this.

He's still cross because I keep threatening people in extremely creative ways.

Mindrape is a horrifying spell by the way. How have I not got that in my spellbook?

[Ravens_cry]

You were Mindraped to not add it to your spellbook.:smallamused:

[Vhaidara]

So the plan to help out the lesbian couple is to turn one of them into a straight male who's happy with being a straight male and to turn the other woman straight? Whilst, in a deeply disturbing way, quite funny, I think the party paladin will probably beat me to death with my own spellbook if I suggest this.

He's still cross because I keep threatening people in extremely creative ways.

Mindrape is a horrifying spell by the way. How have I not got that in my spellbook?

Fine, go with the "humane" version. Use Programmed Amnesia on both of them (Mindrape, but not as good), slap on the belt, get the kid, then dispel the amnesia.

[Heikold]

Fine, go with the "humane" version. Use Programmed Amnesia on both of them (Mindrape, but not as good), slap on the belt, get the kid, then dispel the amnesia.

That's not...

What the **** is wrong with you people?

[Ravens_cry]

Hmm. OK, idea. Partner puts on belt, then partner provides a sample through manual stimulation, and ye olde turkey bastere [sic] puts what what where.
It still means a partner gets gender bent, but they don't have to preform a penetrative, sexual act with an unwilling partner.

[Red Fel]

That's not...

What the **** is wrong with you people?

You want the list? We'll be here all week. :smalltongue:

Seriously, though, I'm almost positive there's a spell in BoEF that guarantees conception. I don't remember if the text requires that the coupling be male/female to make it work, either.

[torrasque666]

Hmm. OK, idea. Partner puts on belt, then partner provides a sample through manual stimulation, and ye olde turkey bastere [sic] puts what what where.
It still means a partner gets gender bent, but they don't have to preform a penetrative, sexual act with an unwilling partner.
You. You're not crazy. What are you doing here? Get out.

[Heikold]

Hmm. OK, idea. Partner puts on belt, then partner provides a sample through manual stimulation, and ye olde turkey bastere [sic] puts what what where.
It still means a partner gets gender bent, but they don't have to preform a penetrative, sexual act with an unwilling partner.

Okay, now we're potentially cooking with gas. It's not pretty, but it'd get the job done I suppose.

[Heikold]

You want the list? We'll be here all week. :smalltongue:

Seriously, though, I'm almost positive there's a spell in BoEF that guarantees conception. I don't remember if the text requires that the coupling be male/female to make it work, either.

Ah wording based technicalities. The best way of doing stuff like this. Now to find that spell and see if you're right...

EDIT: Googled BoEF as I hadn't heard of it. Book of Erotic Fantasy? Really? That's a thing? Obviously it's quite useful given the context, but seeing as I'm sort of at work I could have done with a bit of warning!

[Ravens_cry]

You. You're not crazy. What are you doing here? Get out.
I know, crazy right?

[Red Fel]

Ah wording based technicalities. The best way of doing stuff like this. Now to find that spell and see if you're right...

EDIT: Googled BoEF as I hadn't heard of it. Book of Erotic Fantasy? Really? That's a thing? Obviously it's quite useful given the context, but seeing as I'm sort of at work I could have done with a bit of warning!

Yeah, the Book of Erotic Fantasy is an actual thing. Once you get past the amusing combination of humor, awkwardness and occasional squick, there are a few useful (and a few broken) items in there. Fairly NSFW though, if for no other reason than the title.

That said, BoEF really does cover a lot of reproduction-based issues. I think they have a comprehensive description of the different races' pregnancy terms, for example. Because you probably need that information.

[ellindsey]

You want the list? We'll be here all week. :smalltongue:

Seriously, though, I'm almost positive there's a spell in BoEF that guarantees conception. I don't remember if the text requires that the coupling be male/female to make it work, either.

The Blessed Seed spell from BoEF does guarantee conception, but it also requires copulation with a member of the opposite gender, so you'll still need some form of gender swap (and possibly mind-control) magic.

[Heikold]

The Blessed Seed spell from BoEF does guarantee conception, but it also requires copulation with a member of the opposite gender, so you'll still need some form of gender swap (and possibly mind-control) magic.

Damn it. I was hoping to look that up when I got home. Thanks for saving me the time!

[ellindsey]

Damn it. I was hoping to look that up when I got home. Thanks for saving me the time!

Checking the magic items, the False Penis specifically allows a woman to wear it and impregnate another woman. It's not a terribly expensive item either at only 6000gp. You just need to convince your GM to allow it in your game.

[Heikold]

Checking the magic items, the False Penis specifically allows a woman to wear it and impregnate another woman. It's not a terribly expensive item either at only 6000gp. You just need to convince your GM to allow it in your game.

"Statements I Never Thought I'd Read Volume 1"

[malonkey1]

Okay, here's an idea: Cast clone on the two of them. Cast animate dead or animate object on the inert clones (or, if you can have them be brought to true life for the gestational period, even better!), then gender-swap one of them. Upon birth, the kid will probably have the Gheden half-undead template, but hey.

[Psyren]

My BoEF says "all game mechanics and statistics are to be considered Open Game Content" so I'm guessing we can post whichever spell will get the job done. I'll take a look through mine and see what I find.


Belt of Genderchange exists. Use it, get a baby, then throw it away.

You... uh... you mean the belt right? :smalleek:

[Vhaidara]

That's not...

What the **** is wrong with you people?

Sorry, forgot my blue text to mark out sarcasm. The joke was more about Mindrape vs Programmed Amnesia.

Not saying there's nothing wrong with us. Just look up any of the threads from this subforum about child rearing.

[Urpriest]

Aside from all the suggestions of...questionable humor...., something between Alter Self+Turkey Baster and BoEF's magical insemination dildo seems to be the best option, depending on how much the PCs value dignity vs. gp.

[Psyren]

Ah, found something. The False... er, Phallus on page 138. Basically, a female character straps it on and...

...Actually I'll just post the crafting requirements:


Faint transmutation, alter self, Craft Wondrous Item, slotless, CL 3. Price: 6000gp, weight, 2lbs.

Amusingly, they didn't include rules to take it off when you're... done. But a dispel magic to suppress it for 1d4 rounds should take care of that.

[Urpriest]

Checking the magic items, the False Penis specifically allows a woman to wear it and impregnate another woman. It's not a terribly expensive item either at only 6000gp. You just need to convince your GM to allow it in your game.


Ah, found something. The False... er, Phallus on page 138. Basically, a female character straps it on and...

...Actually I'll just post the crafting requirements:



Amusingly, they didn't include rules to take it off when you're... done. But a dispel magic to suppress it for 1d4 rounds should take care of that.

Swordsaged Metaphysical Spellshaper'd? (Don't remember the names of any other BoEF classes.)

[Psyren]

Kundala'd probably, it's the closest base class in there to a skill monkey. (They get Hide but not Move Silently, weirdly enough.)

[heavyfuel]

Quick warning if you do decide to use BoEF, it's a third party book (aka, not published by Wizards of the Coast). Some DMs might not be open to usage of what is, essencially, a homebrewed book

[arkangel111]

Why go outside of core? Wish and Miracle covers this easier than anything else, hell you could probably just wish the woman all the way through pregnancy and be ready to adventure the following day. If your DM is willing to let this happen in the first place then he'll let it happen through Wish/Miracle.

[Vhaidara]

Why go outside of core? Wish and Miracle covers this easier than anything else, hell you could probably just wish the woman all the way through pregnancy and be ready to adventure the following day. If your DM is willing to let this happen in the first place then he'll let it happen through Wish/Miracle.

Because 9th level spellcasting is expensive and not necessarily available?

[CGNefarious]

If you're not at least a 20th level wizard, why are you even bothering to play?

[Heikold]

Aside from all the suggestions of...questionable humor...., something between Alter Self+Turkey Baster and BoEF's magical insemination dildo seems to be the best option, depending on how much the PCs value dignity vs. gp.
Yeah, looks that way. Those are the options that I'm going to lead with anyway.


Quick warning if you do decide to use BoEF, it's a third party book (aka, not published by Wizards of the Coast). Some DMs might not be open to usage of what is, essencially, a homebrewed book
Not too worried about that. He's ususlly open to anything that isn't clearly broken especially if it's being used purely for RP purposes as in this case.

[Heikold]

By the way, kudos to this community for dealing with a question like that with good humour and minimal childishness.

[Sith_Happens]

The Blessed Seed spell from BoEF does guarantee conception, but it also requires copulation with a member of the opposite gender, so you'll still need some form of gender swap (and possibly mind-control) magic.

Depending on whether you distinguish between "gender" and "sex" you might only need the mind-control magic (to change the former). In which case one or the other partner will temporarily be a transgender man (or am I getting it backwards?) and thereby successfully impregnate the other despite not having the necessary parts. And the kid will be a Celestial creature to boot.

Isn't the English language wonderful?:smallwink:


Checking the magic items, the False Penis specifically allows a woman to wear it and impregnate another woman. It's not a terribly expensive item either at only 6000gp. You just need to convince your GM to allow it in your game.

This method is far too simple, as members of the Playground we must endeavor to find a convoluted and borderline-munchkiny way to achieve the same result.:smalltongue:


Okay, here's an idea: Cast clone on the two of them. Cast animate dead or animate object on the inert clones (or, if you can have them be brought to true life for the gestational period, even better!), then gender-swap one of them. Upon birth, the kid will probably have the Gheden half-undead template, but hey.

Getting there, but I'll do you one better:

1. Manifest Fusion on your partner.

1.5. (Optional) Alter Self into a male version of yourself if you'd rather have a son than a daughter.

2. Cast Body Outside Body.

3. Quickly cut off a small piece of one of your duplicates and coat it with Unguent of Timelessness.

4. Kill the duplicate.

5. Use the piece of duplicate to create a Clone.

6. The original is already dead when the Clone finishes growing, so it will come to life immediately.

Upsides:

1. No chance of your child being half-undead.

2. They're already all grown up and appreciably leveled.

Downsides:

1. Major personality issues.

[Venger]

Swordsaged Metaphysical Spellshaper'd? (Don't remember the names of any other BoEF classes.)

Mystic pimpslapped.


By the way, kudos to this community for dealing with a question like that with good humour and minimal childishness.

You'll find that's how we roll.

[Eldan]

Making a body for the child is the easy part, of course. The problem would be creating an original mind and personality. And soul, of course.

How about this:

1) Get a selection of farm animals.
2) Awaken them, thus creating new fully sapient minds.
3)Interview them to find the mind you like most for your child.
3b) Optional: if none are pleasing, use mindrape to mold preferred mind to childlike ideal.
4) Use stone shape, other sculpting spells and fabricate to create a statue of a child resembling both parents.
5) Use stone to flesh on statue, creating corpse of child resembling both parents.
6) Animate corpse.
6b) Optional: include templates like spellstitched, for improved child.
7) Transfer preferred child mind to corpse.

Optional further steps:
8) Regularly use flesh to stone -> fabricate -> stone to flesh to age child's body.
9) Regularly use mindrape to age child's mind.
10) Any number of steps to fully optimize the child's capabilities, if desired. Since the child's mind is originally from an animal body, it might like to be a lycanthrope, for example.

[Know(Nothing)]

How about researching a new spell? Or, I don't know, adventuring to find someone or something that can help you?

[Venger]

How about researching a new spell? Or, I don't know, adventuring to find someone or something that can help you?

people post questions asking for RAW solutions. a freeform one, they can come up with on their own, don't need help with, and it's kind of impossible for strangers on the internet who don't know the precise ins and outs (pun intended) of their DM's setting to know what fluff-based solutions would be possible. since OP didn't just go to madame so and so's potion store and solve the problem himself, I think it's reasonable to say that a solution like this is not yet present in their shared campaign world.

[Know(Nothing)]

We don't know if OP has tried those solutions yet. It's worth checking. It could be done out of game-- just text your DM and check if spell research is allowed. If it isn't, or if you don't have a caster who wants to do it in your party, make some knowledge checks to see if such a caster exists next time you play. If there isn't, take some knowledge checks to see if a creature or artifact or magical location exists that would do it. A ring, a stone, a glade, a clifftop, a forgotten fertility goddess-- there are plenty of classy solutions to this that don't involve brainwashing or magic strap-ons.

As a DM I would much prefer solutions that lead to fun adventuring, rather than sending my players to scour terrible 3rd-party books, or to come up with some convoluted, cheese-encrusted, series of unrelated spells and a staggering lack of morality.

Now if this were a horror campaign, many of the solutions so far would fit perfectly.

[Venger]

We don't know if OP has tried those solutions yet. It's worth checking. It could be done out of game-- just text your DM and check if spell research is allowed. If it isn't, or if you don't have a caster who wants to do it in your party, make some knowledge checks to see if such a caster exists next time you play. If there isn't, take some knowledge checks to see if a creature or artifact or magical location exists that would do it. A ring, a stone, a glade, a clifftop, a forgotten fertility goddess-- there are plenty of classy solutions to this that don't involve brainwashing or magic strap-ons.

As a DM I would much prefer solutions that lead to fun adventuring, rather than sending my players to scour terrible 3rd-party books, or to come up with some convoluted, cheese-encrusted, series of unrelated spells and a staggering lack of morality.

Now if this were a horror campaign, many of the solutions so far would fit perfectly.

references to mindrape are something of a running joke on this forum. since it's such a needlessly excessive solution to everything, it's often invoked as a "swatting a fly with a SCUD missile" type scenario:

where did I leave my keys? (mindrape)
I wish I didn't mind when my party members mispronounced the word "nuclear" (mindrape)
etc.

same sort of deal with the clone/body outside body/fusion stuff. the joke is using a bunch of 9ths to address a purely RP-oriented problem, not that people think these are viable solutions.

I don't think anyone was actually serious.

OP said his DM was okay with third party content already. Besides, your suggestion of going on an adventure to solve the problem doesn't preclude using the suggested items or similar. they could easily work together.

[Eldan]

same sort of deal with the clone/body outside body/fusion stuff. the joke is using a bunch of 9ths to address a purely RP-oriented problem, not that people think these are viable solutions.

I don't think anyone was actually serious.
.

Actually, I am? If I was in a D&D world, this would actually be my preferred solution of creating new humans for my society. It saves a lot of mess. No pregnancies, probably fewer mental illnesses, no baby or toddler stage, only fully functional people that start right at the productive age with fully formed minds.

[Heikold]

We don't know if OP has tried those solutions yet. It's worth checking. It could be done out of game-- just text your DM and check if spell research is allowed. If it isn't, or if you don't have a caster who wants to do it in your party, make some knowledge checks to see if such a caster exists next time you play. If there isn't, take some knowledge checks to see if a creature or artifact or magical location exists that would do it. A ring, a stone, a glade, a clifftop, a forgotten fertility goddess-- there are plenty of classy solutions to this that don't involve brainwashing or magic strap-ons.

As a DM I would much prefer solutions that lead to fun adventuring, rather than sending my players to scour terrible 3rd-party books, or to come up with some convoluted, cheese-encrusted, series of unrelated spells and a staggering lack of morality.

Now if this were a horror campaign, many of the solutions so far would fit perfectly.

Yeah, but even when researching a spell it's good to have a general template to work from. Besides, I was mostly interested to see if it was necessary to break new ground here or whether a mechanism for achieving this already existed that we could make use of.

Oh and since when has morality ever come into it? :smalltongue:

This is the kind of party to whom I recently managed to justify making a sled out of human corpses tied together with ropes.

[Venger]

Actually, I am? If I was in a D&D world, this would actually be my preferred solution of creating new humans for my society. It saves a lot of mess. No pregnancies, probably fewer mental illnesses, no baby or toddler stage, only fully functional people that start right at the productive age with fully formed minds.

I agree with you in principle, but I assumed that in this particular instance, the intended effect was humorous since non-tippy games where people can freely fling 9ths are not especially common.

[Heikold]

Actually, I am? If I was in a D&D world, this would actually be my preferred solution of creating new humans for my society. It saves a lot of mess. No pregnancies, probably fewer mental illnesses, no baby or toddler stage, only fully functional people that start right at the productive age with fully formed minds.

"Fewer" mental illnesses? Stab in the dark here, but I'm going to guess that the people performing the animal awakening/interview process before they graft the brains into baby corpses that they made are going to to have a few after a while.

Before someone else says it: "It's okay, we can just Mindrape them to fix it."

[Venger]

"Fewer" mental illnesses? Stab in the dark here, but I'm going to guess that the people performing the animal awakening/interview process before they graft the brains into baby corpses that they made are going to to have a few after a while.

Before someone else says it: "It's okay, we can just Mindrape them to fix it."

Now you're getting the idea. It's one of the best ways of curing mental problems in the game.

[Eldan]

I suggest evolutionary processes. Create a few axes along which you evaluate a personality, overwrite those who don't achieve a high enough score. Use the insight gained to improve the next generation of minds.

[Urpriest]

We don't know if OP has tried those solutions yet. It's worth checking. It could be done out of game-- just text your DM and check if spell research is allowed. If it isn't, or if you don't have a caster who wants to do it in your party, make some knowledge checks to see if such a caster exists next time you play. If there isn't, take some knowledge checks to see if a creature or artifact or magical location exists that would do it. A ring, a stone, a glade, a clifftop, a forgotten fertility goddess-- there are plenty of classy solutions to this that don't involve brainwashing or magic strap-ons.

As a DM I would much prefer solutions that lead to fun adventuring, rather than sending my players to scour terrible 3rd-party books, or to come up with some convoluted, cheese-encrusted, series of unrelated spells and a staggering lack of morality.

Now if this were a horror campaign, many of the solutions so far would fit perfectly.

Spell research generally takes money. Unless you're arguing that the magical strap-on is somehow less reasonable/flavorful/plausible than the options you're describing, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. I mean, obviously mindrape is a terrible idea, but a magical strap-on is kind of the obvious way to solve the problem in-setting.

[Red Fel]

Spell research generally takes money. Unless you're arguing that the magical strap-on is somehow less reasonable/flavorful/plausible than the options you're describing, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. I mean, obviously mindrape is a terrible idea, but a magical strap-on is kind of the obvious way to solve the problem in-setting.

Of course, if you really want the plot hook, you can say that somebody else did the spell research, and you're on a quest to recover that research. Save money, gain adventure, everybody wins.

[Blackhawk748]

Warning: i have nothing productive to add to this thread.

Welcome to the playground Heikold, if your not insane enough im sure someone *cough*Red Fel*cough* would be happy to Mindrape that away...... Also take ALL of Red Fel's advice with several pounds of Evil. Oh and Ur-Priest is always right. Have Fun! :smallbiggrin:

[Urpriest]

Of course, if you really want the plot hook, you can say that somebody else did the spell research, and you're on a quest to recover that research. Save money, gain adventure, everybody wins.

You could also go on an adventure for the magical strap-on, if you really want to make an adventure out of this. That way you also don't have to invent a redundant game element.

[Inevitability]

This method is far too simple, as members of the Playground we must endeavor to find a convoluted and borderline-munchkiny way to achieve the same result.:smalltongue:

Can I sig this?

[Zakerst]

Perhaps a bit of an odd ball answer, but if you're ok with bootstrapping, you could use a couple teleport through time spells to get the child from the future, or grab the pregnant party from the future, or otherwise grab the child from a point in time in which it did exist and take it to the past where it did not.

Basically this assumes that at some point in time you will have solved the problem, you then go forward to when the problem was solved and take the solution(s), or the one who solved the problem sends the answer back (presumably so they can find it). This creates problems like objects and information having no external source but teleport through time is worded to work around that/ with it.

An alternate solution might be to find a dragon type creature that can mate with anything (so long as its the one birthing the child) and have both parents mate with it, while this will produce a child that is 1/3 A 1/3 B 1/3 Omni-mater (or perhaps because DND doesn't seem to recognize thirds 1/2 1/2 1/2) you'll get a child and perhaps the child will have some advantages.

Another solution, polymorph in to a naturally hermaphroditic species (or and probably better both of you do so) and mate, in this fashion gender and sex become far less prominent and if you really wanted to you could make an argument they are still being true to their sexual orientation and to their love for each other.

If you want a truly epic answer origin of species as an epic spell makes a new life form, but then again epic spells break all the things.

Finally depending on how much one cares about the parents of the child adoption is always an option.

edit: just thought of this a casting of the reverse curse of infertility (curse of fertility), might make you copulate with anything you happen to have relations with (perhaps even yourself)

[Snowbluff]

That's not...

What the **** is wrong with you people?

Can I just say.

That I love.

This thread. :smallbiggrin:

My solution is Simulacrum(a), belt of gender change something, then impregnate it. Kill it when you're done.

[Eldan]

Hermaphrodite is a good idea. Are there any species explicitely named as such in D&D canon? I know plenty of egglaying ones, but no hermaphrodites.

[Blackhawk748]

Hermaphrodite is a good idea. Are there any species explicitely named as such in D&D canon? I know plenty of egglaying ones, but no hermaphrodites.

Beholders might be, i need to consult Theres Tentacles in Here

[Dgrin]

Hermaphrodite is a good idea. Are there any species explicitely named as such in D&D canon? I know plenty of egglaying ones, but no hermaphrodites.

I am pretty sure illithids were called hermaphrodites in LoM. Also I think, aboleths have both male and female reproductive organs

EDIT:
Also beholders are called "gender neutral", they become fertile once in their lives

[Eldan]

I'm not sure if Mindflayers are hermaphrodites or just parthenogenetic. But they are an option.

[atemu1234]

I fail to see how magical strapons qualify as horror or bad. Mind rape, on the other hand, is probably a joke made in poor taste.

[Dgrin]

Okay, I just checked that in LoM. It says that mind flayers "spawn hermaphoditically two or three times during its lifetime". Although from the description it seems like you're right and that's parthenogenesis. But aboleth should work for our goals, especially considering that you can leave eggs somewhere in the water, not having to deal with pregnancy while adventuring.

Also I'm thinking about doppelgangers right now. Is there something about their gender?

EDIT: I think I found the appropriate variant: changelings, despite having default gender, can freely change their gender, even to be hermaphroditic or entirely genderless. And they have a great benefit of being humanoids, not aberrations.

[ellindsey]

Also I'm thinking about doppelgangers right now. Is there something about their gender?

According to the BoEF, both doppelgangers become pregnant after mating, which would make them hermaphrodites. So polymorphing both people into doppelgangers would work. They'd have to stay as doppelgangers for the full gestation period of 6 months, at which point the newborns bud off the parents.

[Know(Nothing)]

I fail to see how magical strapons qualify as horror or bad. Mind rape, on the other hand, is probably a joke made in poor taste.

The strap-ons aren't the horror part, the mindrape is, as is the interviewing farm animal minds and mindrape-aging your "child," among other such solutions. The strap-ons are just ridiculous.


Unless you're arguing that the magical strap-on is somehow less reasonable/flavorful/plausible than the options you're describing, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

So we have a setting of infinite magic and intrigue, but no, if she wants a child she has to pop down to Ye Olde Promiscuous Pegasus Sex Shoppe for an enchanted phallus and have her partner nail her with it? Why does it have to be a pre-printed item? So no other items exist that achieve the desired effect? There is no reason at all that it has to exist as a strap-on, except some horny nerd wrote it that way. Obviously if the character wants that, that's great, but it shouldn't be presented as the only option. How about a classier solution?

How about a solution that doesn't involve turning into monsters to have sex?

How about a solution that tells a good story, and one you wouldn't be embarrassed to tell to other people? This is one of the best opportunities for character development that I could imagine. Maybe the DM and players aren't approaching it with the same seriousness that I am, but if a player came to me with those motivations, I wouldn't punish them by making them resort to a plan that had all the dignity and maturity of a 12-year-old boy snickering in the back of health class.

[aleucard]

..... I love this forum. :smallbiggrin:

Just for bonus points, does anyone know if there's a non-BOEF way of doing this that doesn't involve Epic, Wish relatives, or Rule 63? Polymorphing into something relevant may work, but that's too easy.

EDIT: To Know(Nothing).

The primary reason that we disregard your suggestions here is because those same suggestions are 1) universal to EVERY problem that could be generated, and thus responding with it becomes boring quickly, and 2) such solutions are by nature completely unique to the campaign and the players in question, thus meaning that we can't provide any meaningful input whatsoever. Kinda defeats the whole point of having a forum for that sort of thing, don't it?

[atemu1234]

The strap-ons aren't the horror part, the mindrape is, as is the interviewing farm animal minds and mindrape-aging your "child," among other such solutions. The strap-ons are just ridiculous.



So we have a setting of infinite magic and intrigue, but no, if she wants a child she has to pop down to Ye Olde Promiscuous Pegasus Sex Shoppe for an enchanted phallus and have her partner nail her with it? Why does it have to be a pre-printed item? So no other items exist that achieve the desired effect? There is no reason at all that it has to exist as a strap-on, except some horny nerd wrote it that way. Obviously if the character wants that, that's great, but it shouldn't be presented as the only option. How about a classier solution?

How about a solution that doesn't involve turning into monsters to have sex?

How about a solution that tells a good story, and one you wouldn't be embarrassed to tell to other people? This is one of the best opportunities for character development that I could imagine. Maybe the DM and players aren't approaching it with the same seriousness that I am, but if a player came to me with those motivations, I wouldn't punish them by making them resort to a plan that had all the dignity and maturity of a 12-year-old boy snickering in the back of health class.

So because reproduction involves sex, you're calling us immature? You're the one acting like a twelve year old, here.

[Vhaidara]

So we have a setting of infinite magic and intrigue, but no, if she wants a child she has to pop down to Ye Olde Promiscuous Pegasus Sex Shoppe for an enchanted phallus and have her partner nail her with it? Why does it have to be a pre-printed item? So no other items exist that achieve the desired effect? There is no reason at all that it has to exist as a strap-on, except some horny nerd wrote it that way. Obviously if the character wants that, that's great, but it shouldn't be presented as the only option. How about a classier solution?

I'm sorry, but I don't think that's fair. Honestly, it's a fairly logical magic item for the purpose: Lesbian couple wants baby, give them the same equipment straight couples use. It works for them, after all.

Further, the entire point of the Mindrape (which also just happens to be [un]fortunately named here) suggestion is that it's creepy and horror. No one denies that. We have all accepted that we are terrible people.

I for one would love to have the DnD story about the time that my character had to "go on an epic quest for the Strap-On of Pregnancy so that she could make her father happy". Mostly because I could pause there, let everyone's minds go there, then continue with "by having a legitimate child with her girlfriend".

[Urpriest]

The strap-ons aren't the horror part, the mindrape is, as is the interviewing farm animal minds and mindrape-aging your "child," among other such solutions. The strap-ons are just ridiculous.



So we have a setting of infinite magic and intrigue, but no, if she wants a child she has to pop down to Ye Olde Promiscuous Pegasus Sex Shoppe for an enchanted phallus and have her partner nail her with it? Why does it have to be a pre-printed item? So no other items exist that achieve the desired effect? There is no reason at all that it has to exist as a strap-on, except some horny nerd wrote it that way. Obviously if the character wants that, that's great, but it shouldn't be presented as the only option. How about a classier solution?

How about a solution that doesn't involve turning into monsters to have sex?

How about a solution that tells a good story, and one you wouldn't be embarrassed to tell to other people? This is one of the best opportunities for character development that I could imagine. Maybe the DM and players aren't approaching it with the same seriousness that I am, but if a player came to me with those motivations, I wouldn't punish them by making them resort to a plan that had all the dignity and maturity of a 12-year-old boy snickering in the back of health class.

I think the problem here is that you're approaching the concept of a magical strap-on as if it's some joke item, rather than a reasonable magical elaboration of something that some real-world lesbian couples use. We're not suggesting it because "lol strap-on"...if you noticed, in an earlier post when I mentioned that there were two options that involved a tradeoff of dignity and gp, the strap-on was the one that preserved dignity.

That said, before I keep talking about this, I should probably ask a lesbian friend if I have the right impression.

With that aside, the only other objection is that it's not a dramatic and interesting quest, since it's a magic item you can buy in any suitably large urban area. The thing is, not everything needs to be a quest. If the characters were straight, would you make them go through an elaborate mythical quest to get pregnant?

[Know(Nothing)]

So because reproduction involves sex, you're calling us immature? You're the one acting like a twelve year old, here.

First off, IVF is reproduction without sex. That is what is in the title of the thread.

Second, I am fully aware that strap-ons are things that couples use. I'm also aware that many(most?) lesbian couples do not like using them, and some are genuinely repulsed by them, so telling a player/character that it is the only way they will get pregnant is messed up. It is a game of infinite possibility. As I said, if that is what they're into then that's fantastic, you have an answer. But if not, there should be other ways.

Thirdly, I offered the quest as an alternative to spell research, which is a perfectly valid in-game solution. As are knowledge checks and gather information checks. Discussing alternatives beyond printed items and creatures does not "defeat the purpose of a forum." Yes they involve checking with the DM to see if they work in that world, but if the DM honestly says to you that unless you can find an existing item/spell that does this very non-game-breaking thing then it can't be done ever, I would find a different group.

If the character wants this to be done in downtime without the flavor implications, just take the stats from the mystic dildo and rewrite it as a pair of bracelets or something, and get it at a shop. If they don't mind the strap-on, use that. If no such item exists and they want to keep it in downtime, hire a wizard, do spell research, see if there is one in town/nearby. If no such caster exists then the DM is taking them into a quest for such an effect, which again is cool if that's what the player wants. If the DM just straight-up won't allow it without shennanigans, that is just sad.

[Urpriest]

First off, IVF is reproduction without sex. That is what is in the title of the thread.

Second, I am fully aware that strap-ons are things that couples use. I'm also aware that many(most?) lesbian couples do not like using them, and some are genuinely repulsed by them, so telling a player/character that it is the only way they will get pregnant is messed up. It is a game of infinite possibility. As I said, if that is what they're into then that's fantastic, you have an answer. But if not, there should be other ways.

No-one here is saying it's the only way. But for many lesbian couples (including the one I asked) a magical strap-on would be completely reasonable. You've been deriding it as a ridiculous solution, we're trying to point out that it's really not.



Thirdly, I offered the quest as an alternative to spell research, which is a perfectly valid in-game solution. As are knowledge checks and gather information checks. Discussing alternatives beyond printed items and creatures does not "defeat the purpose of a forum." Yes they involve checking with the DM to see if they work in that world, but if the DM honestly says to you that unless you can find an existing item/spell that does this very non-game-breaking thing then it can't be done ever, I would find a different group.


1. Spell research is in general inappropriate for problems for which there are already magical solutions. The whole point of spell research is to fill in gaps in the rules, situations particular to a specific game that wouldn't have come up in the general cases covered by the books. Letting it cover existing functionality tends to rather rapidly lead to munchkinly behaviors ("I want a version of Miracle for Wizards!" etc.).

That said, I do think that if the magical strap-on is distasteful to this particular lesbian couple, then spell research (or, since the original was a magic item, a custom magic item) would indeed be the way to go.

2. Gather Information and Knowledge checks are not in-game solutions, they are how the PCs become aware of the existence of in-game solutions. They still need solutions to find, and if you're not suggesting something specific based on your expertise ("Deity X tends to support this sort of thing, and would plausibly have holy sites that could enable it" or the like) then you're not supplying any useful advice.

[Know(Nothing)]

The only printed fix for this that doesn't involve some bizarre polymorphing weirdness is the strap-on, and that's glorified homebrew, so if we're inventing stuff anyway, why not something else? Even printed possible solutions besides that one are subject to DM intervention.

Here, Ehlonna has fertility in her portfolio. Maybe check with her clerics. Or with her since she can use any living tree as a remote communication focus. Well that's useless, since it isn't a printed answer and is up to the DM. Is it worth trying? ABSOLUTELY. So it's not useful advice to try things outside the scope of RAW? The problem itself is outside the scope of RAW! The question was is there a spell that could combine the DNA of two same-gendered characters to make a child, and the answer is no, there is no such spell. So rather than ending the thread after one post, I'm offering alternatives.

[atemu1234]

The only printed fix for this that doesn't involve some bizarre polymorphing weirdness is the strap-on, and that's glorified homebrew, so if we're inventing stuff anyway, why not something else? Even printed possible solutions besides that one are subject to DM intervention.

Here, Ehlonna has fertility in her portfolio. Maybe check with her clerics. Or with her since she can use any living tree as a remote communication focus. Well that's useless, since it isn't a printed answer and is up to the DM. Is it worth trying? ABSOLUTELY. So it's not useful advice to try things outside the scope of RAW? The problem itself is outside the scope of RAW! The question was is there a spell that could combine the DNA of two same-gendered characters to make a child, and the answer is no, there is no such spell. So rather than ending the thread after one post, I'm offering alternatives.

In my experience, it's always better to use a previously written source as opposed to homebrew, because if two people (you and the author) think it's balanced, that's one extra set of reviewing eyes that wouldn't be there otherwise.

[Know(Nothing)]

I do too, but this isn't an overpowered PrC or feat, this is basically an RP decision that would be very hard to twist into something that's unbalanced, and is very much a gray area in the first place as far as in-game material to draw from, so it's kinda by default under DM purview anyway. Even if the DM thought that it was exploitable, or that the widespread existence of such items would alter his game world too much, that's even more reason to just make it a DM call/quest/solution.

This is one situation where it is better to go to the DM first, then the books.

[atemu1234]

This is one situation where it is better to go to the DM first, then the books.

This is always the case with 3rd party materials; it's just this item works better than your suggestions.

[Urpriest]

The only printed fix for this that doesn't involve some bizarre polymorphing weirdness is the strap-on, and that's glorified homebrew, so if we're inventing stuff anyway, why not something else? Even printed possible solutions besides that one are subject to DM intervention.

Because we've got a reasonable idea of how it would work already? No matter how you do it you'll have to fluff it in some way, and decide on a price. Magical strap-on is reasonably plausible fluff, and 6000gp is about the right price (2nd level spell effect, since physical change is generally a bit too much for a 1st level spell).



Here, Ehlonna has fertility in her portfolio. Maybe check with her clerics. Or with her since she can use any living tree as a remote communication focus. Well that's useless, since it isn't a printed answer and is up to the DM. Is it worth trying? ABSOLUTELY. So it's not useful advice to try things outside the scope of RAW? The problem itself is outside the scope of RAW! The question was is there a spell that could combine the DNA of two same-gendered characters to make a child, and the answer is no, there is no such spell. So rather than ending the thread after one post, I'm offering alternatives.

Ok, you have provided one alternative. It's kind of a lazy alternative ("just find a deity with fertility in their portfolio and call it good") but it's an alternative. There are probably deities with much closer themes to what we're trying to do, though. Anyone have any ideas of such?

[atemu1234]

Because we've got a reasonable idea of how it would work already? No matter how you do it you'll have to fluff it in some way, and decide on a price. Magical strap-on is reasonably plausible fluff, and 6000gp is about the right price (2nd level spell effect, since physical change is generally a bit too much for a 1st level spell).



Ok, you have provided one alternative. It's kind of a lazy alternative ("just find a deity with fertility in their portfolio and call it good") but it's an alternative. There are probably deities with much closer themes to what we're trying to do, though. Anyone have any ideas of such?

The ones in BoEF?

[Zakerst]

As an alternative she is a rogue so with a high enough Forgery check she could just make a fake last will or some such and off dear old dad, or at least modify the will.

It just occurs to me that perhaps the reason daddy wants a grandbaby is because his little girl has decided to go into the high stakes career of murderhoboing and he doesn't want his line to end with her? If so there are some other options at play but yeah without knowing more of the situation all I think most of us can do is come up with "clever" ideas to get a baby.

Here's one if you want to adventure and be evil and want a baby to be a superior specimen, go find a dragon beat it unconscious or render it helpless, proceed to get what you need. It is said dragons can mate with anything and read in a permissible way that means of any sex or sexless so F/Fd couplings should result in half dragon babies where either parent could be the mother, or heck you may be able to get one of the good or neutral dragons to do it for a good cause/price?

Another option for the breeding is turn into a plant of some sort cut off a branch and plant it allowing it to grow into a baby you, it is a child and its also yours (you have it) and it would develop its own personality with tendencies like your own. Or you could both be plants and pollinate each other and bear fruit.

[Milo v3]

Hmm... what DC of Use Magic Device do you think you'd need to convince the universe you have a different gender....

[Snowbluff]

Isn't carrying a child dangerous? :smallconfused:

Hmm... what DC of Use Magic Device do you think you'd need to convince the universe you have a different gender....

Probably not that high.

[Milo v3]

Isn't carrying a child dangerous? :smallconfused:
Well as long as you don't try two weapon fighting with it, you probably wont suffer any penalties to attack rolls :smallbiggrin:


Probably not that high.

*Looks at UMD and sees how low faking a race is...*
Have to be 20 at most.... that'd be surprisingly easy....

[Sith_Happens]

Can I sig this?

Absolutely.


Perhaps a bit of an odd ball answer, but if you're ok with bootstrapping, you could use a couple teleport through time spells to get the child from the future, or grab the pregnant party from the future, or otherwise grab the child from a point in time in which it did exist and take it to the past where it did not.

Basically this assumes that at some point in time you will have solved the problem, you then go forward to when the problem was solved and take the solution(s), or the one who solved the problem sends the answer back (presumably so they can find it). This creates problems like objects and information having no external source but teleport through time is worded to work around that/ with it.

Trust me, you do not want to set up an ontological paradox involving anything that appreciably changes with age.


Another solution, polymorph in to a naturally hermaphroditic species (or and probably better both of you do so) and mate, in this fashion gender and sex become far less prominent and if you really wanted to you could make an argument they are still being true to their sexual orientation and to their love for each other.

This raises the "what species is the child" question, which is less than desirable. Luckily, upon noticing the magic strap-on's Alter Self prerequisite last night it occurred to me that you could use Polymorph to achieve the same effect for much cheaper or even free (if there's a wizard in the party willing to help in the endeavor).


This spell functions like alter self, except...

You can change into a member of your own kind or even into yourself.
...
The new form’s significant physical qualities (such as height, weight, and gender) are also under your control, but they must fall within the norms for the new form’s kind.

OP, are you familiar with the term "futanari?" Because I'm pretty sure it counts as "within the norms" for humans, it's just one of the much rarer possibilities.:smallwink:

[Snowbluff]

I'm pretty sure a human like that would be sterile.

Also, sometimes I wish I wasn't so aware of Japanese phrases. I only seem to learn the ones that make me want to up my bleach dosages.

Well as long as you don't try two weapon fighting with it, you probably wont suffer any penalties to attack rolls :smallbiggrin:
Well, hold on a second here. Does it count as a light weapon? I might carry it in my off hand if I can rack up enough damage bonuses. Wait.. which hand is my off hand? :smallconfused:


*Looks at UMD and sees how low faking a race is...*
Have to be 20 at most.... that'd be surprisingly easy....
The Universe had an off day ONCE, and now everything is medieval fantasy. Give it a break. :smalltongue:

[Sith_Happens]

I'm pretty sure a human like that would be sterile.

Then fully change the plumbing and associated glands but leave everything else identical to your normal self. Might cause a bit of cognitive dissonance, but nothing a quick Mindrape can't fix you can't sleep off after doing the deed.

[Red Rubber Band]

Fine, go with the "humane" version. Use Programmed Amnesia on both of them (Mindrape, but not as good), slap on the belt, get the kid, then dispel the amnesia.
That's not...

What the **** is wrong with you people?


You could also go on an adventure for the magical strap-on, if you really want to make an adventure out of this. That way you also don't have to invent a redundant game element.

This is a fantastic thread :smallbiggrin:

May I sig these?

[Kevingway]

Have this occur in an area of high taint so that the mother can have an Unholy Scion.

Page 155 of Heroes of Horror. I'll just let you look that up.

Have fun!

[Eldan]

Now I wonder if you could surgically implant a fetus into a new mother in D&D and then use some kind of regeneration magic to connect it properly.

[Urpriest]

This is a fantastic thread :smallbiggrin:

May I sig these?

Go ahead!

For the record, the OP has already said the couple involved wouldn't be comfortable with one of them Alter Self-ing to male...Alter Self-ing to have a fully functional penis is probably still not going to be acceptable. (Incidentally, not having read the BoEF text I'm envisioning it more like an actual strap-on (aforementioned friend pointed out that the two-ended type would be preferred), but if it's more like "you have a penis now" then it's probably not going to be acceptable either. We can still use it as a baseline for pricing though.)

Going with the "find a deity whose worshipers might have a solution" concept, if you're in the Forgotten Realms Sune tends to favor the "true love conquers all" mindset, and probably has a shrine or the like that can help. While distasteful for obvious reasons, followers of Evening Glory are no strangers to being unable to conceive with their partners through natural means, and may have forbidden magics that could be of use.

If it's just a blood descendant that's necessary, the last time this sort of problem was brought up (two men, so without the advantage of already available uteri) I suggested that the couple make a homunculus together. Homunculi are made using blood and other bodily fluids of their creator, and magic items can have more than one creator, so a homunculus should be a legal blood descendant. They're also quite customizable and upgradeable and can be made reasonably intelligent, though this is tougher if none of the parties involved have Artificer levels.

[Vhaidara]

would be very hard to twist into something that's unbalanced

Does anyone know if a thread about optimizing the magic strap on would violate forum rules? Because I kind of want to accept this challenge.

Red Rubber Band, go ahead and sig away

[ninjamaster1991]

Does anyone know if a thread about optimizing the magic strap on would violate forum rules? Because I kind of want to accept this challenge.

Red Rubber Band, go ahead and sig away

I'd say it, compounded by shut-in female wizards, is a large contributor to creatures with the Half-Golem, Elemental, Undead, etc. templates - so breaking it would just be a matter of book-diving.

[One Step Two]

For a slightly more serious idea, while I do know that 9th level spells isn't something that OP wants to resort to, Miracle is perhaps one of the few spells in Core that can do exactly as requested. You don't even need to pay the 5k exp cost, because it falls under the basics of what Miracle can do, namely

"Have any effect whose power level is in line with the above effects."

You can create life with spells as low as 1st level, and create sapience with a 5th level spell, getting pregnant with another person with the same gender, should be simple by comparison.

Speaking of equivalents, you also can use Incantations (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/incantations.htm). From Unearthed Arcana, it's like Diet Epic Spells, but allows even non-casters to make use of magic.

For an incantation allowing a couple to concieve a child, I'd put it around DC 47 before you start using xp costs or expensive components to lower it any further. Maths below.

Conjuration (Creation) base DC 30,
+10 Second school (1/3rd of Transmutation's DC 32)
-4 Casting time is severely restricted (mother must be ovulating)
-2 Range (from close to touch)
-3 Limited Targets (Target of incantation must be Female)
+16 Duration (Hours to days +6, Days to instantaneous +10)

[TypoNinja]

I'd still go with a Miracle at this point as your best option. Access to 9th's isn't an issue.

Spellcasting as a service is a measly caster level x 90gp for a ninth level spell. Walk into a temple to a god of Family/Fertility and for a modest (by an adventurers budget) donation you have your baby.

[One Step Two]

I'd still go with a Miracle at this point as your best option. Access to 9th's isn't an issue.

Spellcasting as a service is a measly caster level x 90gp for a ninth level spell. Walk into a temple to a god of Family/Fertility and for a modest (by an adventurers budget) donation you have your baby.

Pretty much, the only trick is finding a caster of the correct level, and at a minimum of 17, it only costs 1530gp.

Also, I believe an Artificer of lower level could make a scroll too for that matter, a little more costly, but it works just as well.

[Callin]

How about getting a donor and using something like Mage Hand to just apply the donation to the egg? (for funsies you could use True Strike for better aim) Or even Least Wish (Prestidigitation) to do the desired effect. Use divinations to find the best time for conception.


Quick edit : Also no Ice Assassasin of an Aleax of a Gated in Solar yet... I am dissapointed.

[Sith_Happens]

For the record, the OP has already said the couple involved wouldn't be comfortable with one of them Alter Self-ing to male...Alter Self-ing to have a fully functional penis is probably still not going to be acceptable.

Why not? The difference between a transmuted penis and a Strap-On of Pregnancy is close to nill any way you look at it.


(Incidentally, not having read the BoEF text I'm envisioning it more like an actual strap-on (aforementioned friend pointed out that the two-ended type would be preferred), but if it's more like "you have a penis now" then it's probably not going to be acceptable either. We can still use it as a baseline for pricing though.)

Just checked, it does in fact "meld."


Also no Ice Assassasin of an Aleax of a Gated in Solar yet... I am dissapointed.

I think we've all just been assuming that a quasi-real child wouldn't be acceptable, otherwise this exercise would be a lot easier.:smalltongue:

[Urpriest]

Why not? The difference between a transmuted penis and a Strap-On of Pregnancy is close to nill any way you look at it.

The impression I get is that while many lesbians are perfectly happy using phallic toys, even phallic toys attached to the crotch area of others, an actual penis would be about as gross for them as it would be for most straight guys.




Just checked, it does in fact "meld."


Ok, that makes it less viable then. I still think it sets a reasonable price-point for homebrewing a similar (but acceptable) item, though.

[TypoNinja]

How about getting a donor and using something like Mage Hand to just apply the donation to the egg? (for funsies you could use True Strike for better aim) Or even Least Wish (Prestidigitation) to do the desired effect. Use divinations to find the best time for conception.


Quick edit : Also no Ice Assassasin of an Aleax of a Gated in Solar yet... I am dissapointed.

Well in theory Teleport Object works for strict IVF, however if the idea is for two women to produce a child we need something a big more than just Sperm+Egg=Baby.

[One Step Two]

Well in theory Teleport Object works for strict IVF, however if the idea is for two women to produce a child we need something a big more than just Sperm+Egg=Baby.

Okay, now we're cooking with eggs... okay, I didn't think that idiom through...

Anyay, I think we can complete this in core, as this has given me some fresh new ideas!

We begin by casting Augury each day asking: "Will I become pregnant if inseminated today?"

When the answer is Weal, ask your partner to take one for the team, and use Alter self, to swap gender temporarily. Apply stimulation for genetic matter. Then use of a Teleport object spell will prevent contact, or if you don't want to make use of a 7th level spell, a very gentle application of Mage hand.

[Sith_Happens]

The impression I get is that while many lesbians are perfectly happy using phallic toys, even phallic toys attached to the crotch area of others, an actual penis would be about as gross for them as it would be for most straight guys.

I'm sure there's plenty of people better able to weigh in than me on the matter, but the line here is just so arbitrary that I can't imagine it'd be likely.

Either way, though, one thing to keep in mind is that this whole thing is possibly an inheritance issue. Straight people in quasi-medieval societies already take one for the team all the time when it comes to that, so at some point it may be necessary to play the "Deal with it" card. Unless of course someone can figure out a way to fuse the minds of two beings whose bodies have already been fused, in which case my Fusion + Body Outside Body + Clone plan loses its main drawback.:smallwink:

[Urpriest]

I'm sure there's plenty of people better able to weigh in than me on the matter, but the line here is just so arbitrary that I can't imagine it'd be likely.

At the very least, it's true of those I've asked about this.



Either way, though, one thing to keep in mind is that this whole thing is possibly an inheritance issue. Straight people in quasi-medieval societies already take one for the team all the time when it comes to that, so at some point it may be necessary to play the "Deal with it" card.

Given the context, I'm assuming the genre here is "progressive fantasy" enough that that isn't the case.

[INoKnowNames]

This thread...

Just...

Holy Hell, this thread.

I'm both horrified blushing/white faced at the "What the Hell"ness of this thread, and all but falling on the floor, rolling around laughing my ass off.

I'm not sure if I've got scruples or if I'm just as dark as you guys.

That said, to contribute, you guys know that the Book of Erotic Fantasy isn't the only literature dedicated to sexy d20, right? I randomly came across another book, the Book of Unlawful Carnal Knowledge. Fitting title, given that I actually think it's SIGNIFICANTLY less mature than BoEF is. I mention it, however, because it -does- include a direct answer to the op's question.

Impregnate
Conjuration (Creation)
Level: Mdw 7, Src/ Wiz 7
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: touch
Target: 1 female
Duration: special
Saving Throw: Fortitude Negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell creates life and, according to some mytho, a
new soul, in a creature capable of bearing young, i.e. in
creatures, that would be capable of bearing young but are
not due to illness, magic etc, too. The casting of these
spells upon a male, though theoretically possible, would
produce unpredictable effects, although male pregnancy
is not impossible. Casting this spell on an undead is
rumored to result in the gruesome death of both undead
and caster. This spell is highly controversial both for
Good and for Lawful creatures. The material component
for this spell is an arrowhead dipped in rabbit's blood.

I did not make that up. I feel dirty just posting it, let alone having remembered that it exists in the first place. But I suppose that is a direct answer to the op for the sake of the couple in question, is it not?

I need to take a long, long shower, to scrub my body and mind of this admittedly amusing madness. And maybe drink a gallon of bleach.

[OracleofWuffing]

Vampires can create spawn without gender constraints- bonus, no pregnancy cravings. In fact, there was this one comic I read on the internet where a character's big reveal that he was a vampire was foreshadowed by him having a discussion on why he didn't have any children. Can't remember where I saw it, but I don't think he used mindrape in the process, so it might not work at a table.

[atemu1234]

Vampires can create spawn without gender constraints- bonus, no pregnancy cravings. In fact, there was this one comic I read on the internet where a character's big reveal that he was a vampire was foreshadowed by him having a discussion on why he didn't have any children. Can't remember where I saw it, but I don't think he used mindrape in the process, so it might not work at a table.

I'm curious as to what this comic was. If you find it, could you post a link? Or PM me it, if you're worried about content?

[Sith_Happens]

I'm curious as to what this comic was. If you find it, could you post a link? Or PM me it, if you're worried about content?

I'm not a future-psychic or anything, but I believe he means this one (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html).:smallwink:

[atemu1234]

I'm not a future-psychic or anything, but I believe he means this one (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html).:smallwink:

Forgive me, I am tired and sarcasm-blind.

[Sith_Happens]

Forgive me, I am tired and sarcasm-blind.

It's okay, I myself wasn't entirely sure whether you were serious or playing along.

[atemu1234]

It's okay, I myself wasn't entirely sure whether you were serious or playing along.

Damn I could've played it off.

[(Un)Inspired]

Sooooo... did we get a yay or nay on Mindrape being a viable option for dealing with both the party-member-in-question's disinterest in getting genderswapped and the paladin's objection to Mindraping in general?

If Mindrape is off the table for being too unsavory (reasonable) and she's not interested into polymorphing into a non-human monstrous hermaphrodite to have reproductive sex (prude) then I recommend Mundane Wish Iron heart surge.

It's pretty easy to fit into any build with Heroics or a few free feats. Just have her IHS away the condition of not being pregnant.

Wham Bam no need for a man.

[Sith_Happens]

Damn I could've played it off.

Too late now.:smalltongue:


If Mindrape is off the table for being to unsavory (reasonable) and she's not interested into polymorphing into a non-human monstrous hermaphrodite to have reproductive sex (prude) then I recommend Iron heart surge.

It's pretty easy to fit into any build with Heroics or a few free feats. Just have her IHS away the condition of not being pregnant.

D'oh, how'd Iron Heart Surge take until page four?

[atemu1234]

Sooooo... did we get a yay or nay on Mindrape being a viable option for dealing with both the party-member-in-question's disinterest in getting genderswapped and the paladin's objection to Mindraping in general?

If Mindrape is off the table for being to unsavory (reasonable) and she's not interested into polymorphing into a non-human monstrous hermaphrodite to have reproductive sex (prude) then I recommend Mundane Wish Iron heart surge.

It's pretty easy to fit into any build with Heroics or a few free feats. Just have her IHS away the condition of not being pregnant.

I pray to Pelor this is tongue-in-cheek...

[(Un)Inspired]

I pray to Pelor this is tongue-in-cheek...

Uhhhhhhh... yes?

Which part?

[atemu1234]

Uhhhhhhh... yes?

Which part?

Pretty much all of it.

[(Un)Inspired]

Pretty much all of it.

Sort of? I kinda did want to find of where the OP's party came down on getting mindraped. Probably against it right?

I think IHS is a sorta reasonable solution... kinda. It would be like the character in question is so good at Kung Fu, so absolutely in control of the workings of their body that they could activate parthenogenesis just through sheer force of will; plus they get a bonus to attack rolls.

[Red Rubber Band]

Sort of? I kinda did want to find of where the OP's party came down on getting mindraped. Probably against it right?

I think IHS is a sorta reasonable solution... kinda. It would be like the character in question is so good at Kung Fu, so absolutely in control of the workings of their body that they could activate parthenogenesis just through sheer force of will; plus they get a bonus to attack rolls.

And this is why people ban the weeaboo fightin' magicks book. Bloody Kung Fu masters are so OP they can self procreate. Creating a whole army of the buggers! It only takes 9 months. One weeaboo at a time.

[INoKnowNames]

I'm legitimately concerned whether or not I'm either being too prudish or too normal if "Mind Rape willingness to get pregnant" and "Iron Heart Surge not being pregnant" are supposed to be legitimate answers to a question.

[(Un)Inspired]

I'm legitimately concerned whether or not I'm either being too prudish or too normal if "Mind Rape willingness to get pregnant" and "Iron Heart Surge not being pregnant" are supposed to be legitimate answers to a question.

It really depends on what question it is an answer for.

If the question is "How can a woman conceive using magic?" Then the answer "Karate Magic in the form of Iron Heart Surge" seems pretty normal.

[OracleofWuffing]

Damn I could've played it off.
I'm just saying, if you could conveniently wipe and reprogram our memories to your liking, you still could. :smalltongue: But yeah, Sith_Happens is right in his future-psychicking, and I, too was actually going to post a certain Futurama meme image over whether or not you were playing along. :smallsmile:

But getting back on the serious track, er, relatively speaking. I suppose if you don't want to be evil, and finding a Wizard skilled enough to Wish or a Cleric Clericked enough to Miracle for you, the Candle of Invocation isn't too much more costly than the third-party magic item, and one would guess if you were on good enough grounds with the good guys or maybe did a favor for team wings and halos, maybe a Solar would be willing to spot you a Wish. I mean, yeah, you typically don't want Candles of Invocations in play just due to their mechanics at that cost, and maybe the rest of your party might think you're a little bit crazy wasteful, but you can't put a price on RP Motives and using a decidedly game-wrecking item in a decidedly not-game-wrecking way.

Or you could just have your Paladin call Uncle Pazuzu. :smallbiggrin:

[INoKnowNames]

It really depends on what question it is an answer for.

If the question is "How can a woman conceive using magic?" Then the answer "Karate Magic in the form of Iron Heart Surge" seems pretty normal.

I'ma.... I'ma go out on a limb and say no, that's not normal. Despite what people like to say about it, Iron Heart Surge wasn't designed to remove the sun or the game rules, let alone impregnate it's user. Just because the Raw is crappy about how it does it's job doesn't mean it's supposed to have been the end all be all for Yukari Yakumo esque shenanigans.

To put a bit more of a Raw slant on it, "Not Being Pregnant" is not an affect defined in the rules in any form, let alone something your fighting spirit and training lets you overcome to defeat your foe. Not being pregnant is not a spell, effect, or condition that affects you, or the maneuver might have a not that it works differently on females than males. Who would be the enemy that you surge against with confidence and vengeance? The universe itself?

This forum is so much fun, but honestly, there are no words. "Magic" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18473280&postcount=97) seems like an appropriate answer to "How can a woman conceive using magic?"

[Venger]

And this is why people ban the weeaboo fightin' magicks book. Bloody Kung Fu masters are so OP they can self procreate. Creating a whole army of the buggers! It only takes 9 months. One weeaboo at a time.

nine months?

uhhh, just IHS the condition "not finished having baby" away and ecce homo, you've got your little tyke all ready.

[INoKnowNames]

nine months?

uhhh, just IHS the condition "not finished having baby" away and ecce homo, you've got your little tyke all ready.

Alternatively, you've just committed a painless abortion and are back to square 1, depending on how your Dm feels like taking all of this.

[(Un)Inspired]

nine months?

uhhh, just IHS the condition "not finished having baby" away and ecce homo, you've got your little tyke all ready.

Yeah but then you IHS again and Fiat Homo, you've got an useful adult instead of a little poop-factory sprog

[Venger]

Yeah but then you IHS again and Fiat Homo, you've got an useful adult instead of a little poop-factory sprog
right.

problem?

[INoKnowNames]

Now I'm honestly curious: Do you guys actually do some of the things you talk about, or is this just general forum talk? When I came back, I was looking to see if the op gained what he may have needed (though I notice that this is a bit older than I thought it was, so he might not have even seen my comment), so I was coming at it from a genuinely playable standpoint. Are Self Impregnating, Fully Aged Baby Birthing Characters -supposed- to be a thing?

[otakumick]

If you do decide to use materials from the BoEF, consider using both Blessed Seed and Fiendish Seed to give the little tyke a real leg up in the multiverse(kid will be half celestial, half fiend and all whatever the parents are... bonus if one parent is a dragon...)

[(Un)Inspired]

Now I'm honestly curious: Do you guys actually do some of the things you talk about, or is this just general forum talk? When I came back, I was looking to see if the op gained what he may have needed (though I notice that this is a bit older than I thought it was, so he might not have even seen my comment), so I was coming at it from a genuinely playable standpoint. Are Self Impregnating, Fully Aged Baby Birthing Characters -supposed- to be a thing?

I wouldn't personally do this sort of thing because

1) I almost always DM and never get a chance to be a player

2) When I do get the rare opportunity to go on adventures I'm not got bog myself down with a bloody booger muncher

That being said, If one of my players came up to me and proposed using IHS to conceive I would absolutely let them do it. Melee never gets to have nice things. I'm not about to take away their right to have kids.

I don't find the idea of practicing martial arts to the point that you have extreme-even supernatural bodily control any more ridiculous then going to a genie and wishing a babies into your uterus.

[INoKnowNames]

...

many thoughts about, yet all is but a torrent of confusion and twitchiness.

The only coherent comment I can make will probably be my last question to you on this subject: Would you sincerely find nothing at all ridiculous if, say a male character, or maybe an 75 year old half orc female, did the same thing? Like, is there a limit, or does anything go?

[(Un)Inspired]

...

many thoughts about, yet all is but a torrent of confusion and twitchiness.

The only coherent comment I can make will probably be my last question to you on this subject: Would you sincerely find nothing at all ridiculous if, say a male character, or maybe an 75 year old half orc female, did the same thing?

Yes it's totally ridiculous but this is a fantasy game we're talking about.

Is a 75 year old woman getting pregnant through kung fu pathenogensis any more ridiculous that a person who turns into a bear and shoots hurricanes at people?

Is it any more ridiculous that casting a spell that blast the blood out of someone's pores into a net around them that entraps their allies?

It's definitely not a ridiculous as the number of adventurers that go around fighting with spiked chains.

[INoKnowNames]

Yes it's totally ridiculous but this is a fantasy game we're talking about.

Is a 75 year old woman getting pregnant through kung fu pathenogensis any more ridiculous that a person who turns into a bear and shoots hurricanes at people?

Is it any more ridiculous that casting a spell that blast the blood out of someone's pores into a net around them that entraps their allies?

It's definitely not a ridiculous as the number of adventurers that go around fighting with spiked chains.

That's the thing about magic. The rules of reality apply less when you're given cartblanche to ignore them. Martial Arts, on the other hand, is based on reality, and while there are people who can easily punch you a good 20 times in 6 seconds and make each punch hurt like hell, or who can react swift enough to catch an arrow out of the air or use a bladed weapon to hit it before it can hit them, I've never heard of a martial artist who could impregnate himself.

The stereotype is that magic is allowed to do these things, because that's what magic does. It's like that most water looks blue, or that most fish live in water, or that most birds can fly. It's a naturally assumed constant in most situations. That's why it's far easier for me to swallow a lesbian couple asking a Genie/Angel/God to bless them with a child, or some of your examples of what are actually rather reasonable due to how the fantasy genre works but are being framed as ridiculous, than the idea of someone being able to impregnate themselves with kung fu, which in most cases genuinely is grounded in reality. I've never heard of a Wuxia like story where the main character could Martial Art himself life... I -COULD- genuinely see someone who was made infertile gaining enough control over their body to -fix- that, but self fertilization is a step beyond that...

I mean, I like my fighters being able to jump 50 feet and cut Tyranosaurus Rex's in half while they do it, but I mean.... well dang, even I have a limit on things that I find silly.

And I happen to like the spiked chain in real life as a weapon. Not allowed to walk around with an actual weapon, but a nice long length of chain can be spun and swung to put a hurt on someone. Works for me.

So yes, I sincerely do find that more ridiculous, even as I accept the existence of Dragons, Spells, and Fairies. Maybe I need to be mindraped until it makes sense.

Edit: Like, I'm not trying to be rude, and if I'm failing at that, I'm honestly sorry. This really is just supposed to be a conversation. I'm just honestly trying to wrap my head around this, and it's like.... zuh?

[(Un)Inspired]

I don't find what you're saying to be rude at all. On the contrary, I'm enjoying the conversation.

I don't have a problem with spiked chains as a weapon in general. It the Dungeons and Dragons spiked chain that I hate with a passion. Haveyou seen what it looks like in the artwork? It's got to be the stupidest thing in the universe:

http://www.dmfiat.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/chain.jpg

It wielding by holding it near the middle and swing both ends simultaneously. So lame.

[INoKnowNames]

I don't find what you're saying to be rude at all. On the contrary, I'm enjoying the conversation.

Thank goodness. :smallsmile:


I don't have a problem with spiked chains as a weapon in general. It the Dungeons and Dragons spiked chain that I hate with a passion. Haveyou seen what it looks like in the artwork? It's got to be the stupidest thing in the universe:

http://www.dmfiat.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/chain.jpg

It wielding by holding it near the middle and swing both ends simultaneously. So lame.

.... what the **** is that?! That's not a spiked chain; that's some Klingon bullcrap! Who the hell drew that?! How are you supposed to use that without stabbing yourself?!

[Red Rubber Band]

.... what the **** is that?! That's not a spiked chain; that's some Klingon bullcrap! Who the hell drew that?! How are you supposed to use that without stabbing yourself?!

Iron Heart Surge.


Also INoKnowNames, (Un)Inspired and Venger, I very much enjoyed your comments on the last page:smallbiggrin:

[Kazyan]

Now I'm honestly curious: Do you guys actually do some of the things you talk about, or is this just general forum talk?

Though the forum once liked to use half-joking TO in response to everything, people have largely stopped with the "half-joking" part. I hang around because this place has stimulating information, but the D&D 3.5 I actually play is so unlike the D&D 3.5 discussed on this forum that, if you doubled the differences, you would get something like V:tM.

[(Un)Inspired]

INoKnowNames, (Un)Inspired and Venger, I very much enjoyed your comments on the last page:smallbiggrin:

Thanks, we're here all week.

[Sith_Happens]

But getting back on the serious track, er, relatively speaking. I suppose if you don't want to be evil, and finding a Wizard skilled enough to Wish or a Cleric Clericked enough to Miracle for you, the Candle of Invocation isn't too much more costly than the third-party magic item, and one would guess if you were on good enough grounds with the good guys or maybe did a favor for team wings and halos, maybe a Solar would be willing to spot you a Wish. I mean, yeah, you typically don't want Candles of Invocations in play just due to their mechanics at that cost, and maybe the rest of your party might think you're a little bit crazy wasteful, but you can't put a price on RP Motives and using a decidedly game-wrecking item in a decidedly not-game-wrecking way.

I like this idea. A lot.

"I AM EZKALIEL, COMMANDER OF THE FIFTH LEGION OF HEIRONEOUS. WHAT IS THY BIDDING, MORTAL?

"I want you to Wish that the next time she [*points*] has sex with me, that I become pregnant with a child to which each of us is one of the parents."

"UM... OKAY."

*points Detect Evil at you to know whether you and your future kid need to be kept on watch (as I assume is standard procedure)*

*does the thing*

*vanishes*


"A PRODUCTIVE DIVERSION, COMMANDER?"


"TECHNICALLY YES. TWO-AND-A-HALF MILLION YEARS IN THIS FORM AND I AM STILL SURPRISED BY THE THINGS I GET CALLED FOR SOMETIMES..."


I'ma.... I'ma go out on a limb and say no, that's not normal. Despite what people like to say about it, Iron Heart Surge wasn't designed to remove the sun or the game rules, let alone impregnate it's user.

I like how becoming pregnant is the "let alone" rather than turning off the sun.:smallwink:


I've never heard of a martial artist who could impregnate himself.

Maybe not in real life, but in myth anything goes and that should really be your comparison point when the other guy is doing, you know, magic.

[TypoNinja]

Ah, found something. The False... er, Phallus on page 138. Basically, a female character straps it on and...

...Actually I'll just post the crafting requirements:



Amusingly, they didn't include rules to take it off when you're... done. But a dispel magic to suppress it for 1d4 rounds should take care of that.

Ok, I've been giggling about this, and tormenting my friends with the pun for days now. I was trying to be mature and serious but I have to share.

Spoiler for NSFW gag.
I'm a horrible person for this, but... The magical Phallus here is a slotless magic item.

*snerk* Slotless. Well, once you've equipped it anyway....

[Eldan]

I'ma.... I'ma go out on a limb and say no, that's not normal. Despite what people like to say about it, Iron Heart Surge wasn't designed to remove the sun or the game rules, let alone impregnate it's user. Just because the Raw is crappy about how it does it's job doesn't mean it's supposed to have been the end all be all for Yukari Yakumo esque shenanigans.

It probably wasn't intended that way, but honestly, in a world where casters create new worlds and new civilizations where no man has gone before, I have no problem at all with martial arts masters who do some ridiculous things, so I allow some shenanigans within reason. Given that pregnancy would mostly be a fluff thing anyway and not done for mechanical power, I'd allow it. Perhaps with some training quest involving a hermit on a distant mountain and a few fertility-themed fae, but still.


Now I'm honestly curious: Do you guys actually do some of the things you talk about, or is this just general forum talk? When I came back, I was looking to see if the op gained what he may have needed (though I notice that this is a bit older than I thought it was, so he might not have even seen my comment), so I was coming at it from a genuinely playable standpoint. Are Self Impregnating, Fully Aged Baby Birthing Characters -supposed- to be a thing?

Pregnancy has never come up in my games, as far as I recall. But given the generally more high-magic nature of my games, if a player came to me and said "My character would like to have a child, but she can't be pregnant while adventuring", then yes, I'd help them figure something out, likely involving shapeshifting, fertility rites and, depending on the character in question and their morals, surrogate mothers, flesh-shaping or just extracting the baby into some kind of flesh sac that acts as an artificial uterus and can be stored in extradimensional storage.

Solved with high-magic, yes, solved with silly RAW-abuse, no.


That's the thing about magic. The rules of reality apply less when you're given cartblanche to ignore them. Martial Arts, on the other hand, is based on reality, and while there are people who can easily punch you a good 20 times in 6 seconds and make each punch hurt like hell, or who can react swift enough to catch an arrow out of the air or use a bladed weapon to hit it before it can hit them, I've never heard of a martial artist who could impregnate himself.

The stereotype is that magic is allowed to do these things, because that's what magic does. It's like that most water looks blue, or that most fish live in water, or that most birds can fly. It's a naturally assumed constant in most situations. That's why it's far easier for me to swallow a lesbian couple asking a Genie/Angel/God to bless them with a child, or some of your examples of what are actually rather reasonable due to how the fantasy genre works but are being framed as ridiculous, than the idea of someone being able to impregnate themselves with kung fu, which in most cases genuinely is grounded in reality. I've never heard of a Wuxia like story where the main character could Martial Art himself life... I -COULD- genuinely see someone who was made infertile gaining enough control over their body to -fix- that, but self fertilization is a step beyond that...

I mean, I like my fighters being able to jump 50 feet and cut Tyranosaurus Rex's in half while they do it, but I mean.... well dang, even I have a limit on things that I find silly.

And I happen to like the spiked chain in real life as a weapon. Not allowed to walk around with an actual weapon, but a nice long length of chain can be spun and swung to put a hurt on someone. Works for me.

So yes, I sincerely do find that more ridiculous, even as I accept the existence of Dragons, Spells, and Fairies. Maybe I need to be mindraped until it makes sense.

Edit: Like, I'm not trying to be rude, and if I'm failing at that, I'm honestly sorry. This really is just supposed to be a conversation. I'm just honestly trying to wrap my head around this, and it's like.... zuh?

I don't like this argument. Never have. Magic isn't based on the real world. Why should fighting be? There's probably far more precedent in legend and myth for fighters doing ridiculous things than wizards. If only because full wizard-type shenanigans rarely come up, it's mostly divine power, providence, the divine right of kings, or some such. If I put a Solomon or Circe or Väinämöinen into my world, I have no problem putting in a Heracles or Cu Chulainn or, hm, anyone in the Three Kingdoms, really.

Edit: and if you don't think martial arts can do that kind of thing in fiction, you need to read more Chinese myth. And Wuxia based on it.

[Know(Nothing)]

Yes, exactly.

To anyone, DM or player, who would genuinely argue that heterosexual intercourse(or a magical reiteration thereof) is the ONLY method of conceiving in a world which is inherently full of magic that could supersede that-- what do you care? What motivates you to be so against such an idea? Does that ruin the game for you? Do you think it's broken?

It's a flavor choice in a game that is all-too-often devoted to what is most powerful instead of what makes a better story or character. This shouldn't be hemmed in by heteronormative interpretations of what "should" make a baby. There is a spell that specifically only makes people dance. This is firmly in DM fiat territory, and again, if the DM has druthers that force you into a creepily sex-toy-based side-quest as your only option, you should find a new DM.

[toapat]

So no other items exist that achieve the desired effect?

Every magic belt in a Drow Necropolis? Seriously it seems almost Absurd that between the lack of risk in 3rd of using The Girdle, and Lolth's immortal outrage, that male drow would not be virtually non-existant.


Now I wonder if you could surgically implant a fetus into a new mother in D&D and then use some kind of regeneration magic to connect it properly.

Regeneration is worded loosely enough to allow the possibility of asexual reproduction with the proper scrying devices and an incorporeal caster


Does anyone know if a thread about optimizing the magic strap on would violate forum rules? Because I kind of want to accept this challenge.

No, but you just need to give a belt the Drawback curse of gender inversion. its a natural -1 enhancement modifier. Any discussion further then this about said belt is raw modbait


And this is why people ban the weeaboo fightin' magicks book. Bloody Kung Fu masters are so OP they can self procreate. Creating a whole army of the buggers! It only takes 9 months. One weeaboo at a time.

No, see, you arent using IHS properly. A crusader uses it every 6 seconds to in order: Genesis spawn, Cause Spawn to reach young adulthood, Train to perfect competence the spawn's class, then perfect their attributes.

Every 30 seconds this army of Crusaders doubles in number.

[Urpriest]

For the record, I wouldn't allow IHS to accomplish parthenogenesis...but I'd probably allow a similar mechanic on a T2 martial class like the Teramach or Bellator. Inducing parthenogenesis seems more in the realm of T2 than T3 thematically speaking, even if practically it has nothing to do with the tier system.

[OracleofWuffing]

I like this idea. A lot.
I was thinking of hamming up the whole "We have true love" angle, but yeah, otherwise spot-on with how I pictured it.

[INoKnowNames]

Iron Heart Surge.

...

I'd be pissed off at you for that answer if I hadn't walked right the **** into it. And even if I were, I'm still laughing so hard I'm vomiting, so I guess I can't be too upset.


Though the forum once liked to use half-joking TO in response to everything, people have largely stopped with the "half-joking" part. I hang around because this place has stimulating information, but the D&D 3.5 I actually play is so unlike the D&D 3.5 discussed on this forum that, if you doubled the differences, you would get something like V:tM.

I remember when I first came to the forum and got introduced to Tome of Battle and accepted that the Fighter is either a glorified door opener or two feat dip without splats or optimization... How far do you go from there to get to "Mind Switching an Ice Assassins of an Alex"?




"I AM EZKALIEL, COMMANDER OF THE FIFTH LEGION OF HEIRONEOUS. WHAT IS THY BIDDING, MORTAL?

"I want you to Wish that the next time she [*points*] has sex with me, that I become pregnant with a child to which each of us is one of the parents."

"UM... OKAY."

*points Detect Evil at you to know whether you and your future kid need to be kept on watch (as I assume is standard procedure)*

*does the thing*

*vanishes*


"A PRODUCTIVE DIVERSION, COMMANDER?"


"TECHNICALLY YES. TWO-AND-A-HALF MILLION YEARS IN THIS FORM AND I AM STILL SURPRISED BY THE THINGS I GET CALLED FOR SOMETIMES..."

See, except for the part after vanishes, and only because I feel like that's a reference to something that went over my head, I don't see why that just couldn't be a thing in the first place.


I like how becoming pregnant is the "let alone" rather than turning off the sun.:smallwink:

Because turning off the sun was the joke at least a year ago, and now it's flexing so hard you grow ovaries.


Maybe not in real life, but in myth anything goes and that should really be your comparison point when the other guy is doing, you know, magic.


It probably wasn't intended that way, but honestly, in a world where casters create new worlds and new civilizations where no man has gone before, I have no problem at all with martial arts masters who do some ridiculous things, so I allow some shenanigans within reason.

I honestly don't have any problem with martial art masters who are so good at what they do that even their extraordinary abilities look as if they are Gods in mortal form; punching hard enough to break through metal and steel effortlessly, jumping over mountains or even from continent to continent, stomping hard enough to cause earthquakes, and sword skills that do rival any other being in existence. I'm legitimately fine with that. There's a direct correlation in that that makes sense in my head: Real World Fighting = Bruce Lee. Fantasy World Fighting = Super Heroes.


Given that pregnancy would mostly be a fluff thing anyway and not done for mechanical power, I'd allow it.

This, on the other hand, honestly just doesn't make sense, and I don't think I can justify something that even with suspension of disbelief, completely throws my head out of the gam-why is having a baby, having heirs, descendants, the core struggle of the existence of most creatures after living, considered so unimportant? Because that's honestly the impression I get.


Perhaps with some training quest involving a hermit on a distant mountain and a few fertility-themed fae, but still.

If a hermit exists who could teach you how to impregnate yourself, why would not the clerics or spellcasters or other mythical creatures that also exist not -you even note the existence for fertility-themed fae; couldn't they do the job themselves? I'm honestly just having so much trouble imagining self-impregnation fu. Closest I get are demons or monsters that can lay eggs...


Pregnancy has never come up in my games, as far as I recall. But given the generally more high-magic nature of my games, if a player came to me and said "My character would like to have a child, but she can't be pregnant while adventuring", then yes, I'd help them figure something out, likely involving shapeshifting, fertility rites and, depending on the character in question and their morals, surrogate mothers, flesh-shaping or just extracting the baby into some kind of flesh sac that acts as an artificial uterus and can be stored in extradimensional storage.

Solved with high-magic, yes, solved with silly RAW-abuse, no.

See, while a bit of the end of that sounds a bit squicky (I could never be a nurse/doctor), all of that sounds generally reasonable. That doesn't seem so alien or out of place as a gamer that it doesn't wreck my idea of immersion.


I don't like this argument. Never have. Magic isn't based on the real world. Why should fighting be?

I'm not arguing that fighting needs to be grounded in what can be done in the real world. I'm arguing that the idea of someone who can pop a squat so hard they grow a uterus sounds ridiculous.


There's probably far more precedent in legend and myth for fighters doing ridiculous things than wizards. If only because full wizard-type shenanigans rarely come up, it's mostly divine power, providence, the divine right of kings, or some such. If I put a Solomon or Circe or Väinämöinen into my world, I have no problem putting in a Heracles or Cu Chulainn or, hm, anyone in the Three Kingdoms, really.

I have no problem with martial characters going beyond the beyond and making even the local god of war **** himself. I've just never read a story in which Heracles toned his biceps so hard he could grow his own baby in him, and then flex it again to pop out a full grown Heracles Jr.


Edit: and if you don't think martial arts can do that kind of thing in fiction, you need to read more Chinese myth. And Wuxia based on it.

I probably do, so long as it doesn't edge into Hentai. I'm just saying, Sun Wukong was one of the most broken people in myth I've ever read off, and I don't recall him impregnating himself. Even though he can make infinity clones of himself with his own hair, or cartwheel from one end of the universe to the other quicker than the time it took to make this post, there's a certain stigma in my mind about genuine reproduction that no amount of push ups or punching boards would allow one to master.

Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris, Jackie Chan, Gilgamesh, Iron Fist, Super Man; pretty freaking strong guys good at amazing things. Last time I checked, none of them could sit up so hard a baby falls out.


Yes, exactly.

To anyone, DM or player, who would genuinely argue that 1 heterosexual intercourse(or a magical reiteration thereof) is the ONLY method of conceiving in a world which is inherently full of magic that could supersede that-- 2 what do you care? What motivates you to be so against such an idea? Does that ruin the game for you? 3 Do you think it's broken?

It's a flavor choice in a game that is all-too-often devoted to what is most powerful instead of4 what makes a better story or character. This shouldn't be hemmed in by heteronormative interpretations of what "should" make a baby. There is a spell that specifically only makes people dance. This is firmly in DM fiat territory, and again, 5 if the DM has druthers that force you into a creepily sex-toy-based side-quest as your only option, you should find a new DM.

In order of the bolded:
1) While I may be the only person with a somewhat negative sounding view, I want to make it absolutely clear that that is infact not what I'm arguing. My argument is the "IRON HEART SURGE (I'm not pregnant!). Peep this scenario; F-Rogue, F-Cleric, M-Warblade, M-Wizard

Clarisa, I'm pregnant!
Oh Racheal, my prayers to Ehlonna were answered! Yay!
Congradulations to the both of you!
Pffbt. Pregnancy is easy. Check this out! *Grunt* Totally preggers now.
... I don't think that's how it works.
I'm pretty sure that's now how it works.
Nah, nah, it's totally legit! Watch! *Grunt, belly appears* Yup. There's a baby in there.
What? Isn't that supposed to take a few months? What is going on?
More importantly, if you are pregnant, where does it come out?
.... good question. Let's find out! *Grunt-[censored/redacted]
OH GOOD LORD IT'S EVERYWHERE!
Sigh... let's clean him up so I can raise him...

I can not be the only one who finds that a bit ridiculous.

2) ... I feel like the above answers that, too, actually.

3) Broken? No. The Alaex MindSwitching Ice Assassin stuff is broken. The above, which is the only thing I object to, is just silly.

4) That's why I dislike the above; it sounds entirely stupid from a story based perspective.

5) I 100% agree.


For the record, I wouldn't allow IHS to accomplish parthenogenesis...but I'd probably allow a similar mechanic on a T2 martial class like the Teramach or Bellator. Inducing parthenogenesis seems more in the realm of T2 than T3 thematically speaking, even if practically it has nothing to do with the tier system.

Okay, so I'm not entirely crazy then. Though I don't know what a Teramach or Bellator is...

Overall Edit: Like, if your game is that silly, then by all means, go ahead. I'm not trying to demand you play a certain way. The best thing about roleplaying is more or less doing whatever you want. But please, for what little grasp at sanity I believe I had, don't tell me that that isn't just plain silly. I thought I was still sane. Please don't take that from me.

[Urpriest]

Okay, so I'm not entirely crazy then. Though I don't know what a Teramach or Bellator is...

Homebrew T2 martial classes by Xefas. The Bellator is the Fighter analog, the Teramach is the Barbarian. I haven't read through the Bellator yet, but high level Teramachs are essentially avatars of rage and hate. A high level Teramach can have a horde of rage-filled followers so devoted/crazy that when they die the follower who manages to dominate the others takes on the original Teramach's identity, eventually becoming the original in every way that matters, so that the horde can never truly be defeated.

In a world containing things like that I could imagine a high level Bellator inducing parthenogenesis in a flavorful way. Imagine a female warrior defined by self-sufficiency, who accepts no assistance from any outsider and who no man can touch (and live). One day, she travels into the mountains, returning in nine months with a babe in her arms. While some say that she merely adopted another's child or found a man to lie with, those who have seen her know that she birthed the child purely from herself, through pure force of will, needing no other to complete the closed circle of her existence.

[INoKnowNames]

See, that sounds cool! I could see that happening in a story and flowing rhythmically. It's all in how eloquently you put it, and that sounds far more elegant than "I Iron Heart Surge away not being pregnant".

I hope Xefas has these classes in his signature or something. If nothing else, the Teramach sounds worth a look.

[animewatcha]

There is a semi-Raw way to achieve this. Like toapat said, there is a curse-drawback for this, but ( going by the d20srd on this so I don't know the actual source ) the curse doesn't work like he/she said it would ( no minus 1 modifier or direction inversion ).

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/cursedItems.htm

30-32 has that the character's gender changes. There is no specifics as to what it changes to. So one of you could be 'cursed' to be a hermaphrodite or shemale. Heck, it can even be a 'quest' to redeem the cursed object.

[Eldan]

I'm not arguing that fighting needs to be grounded in what can be done in the real world. I'm arguing that the idea of someone who can pop a squat so hard they grow a uterus sounds ridiculous.

[There were more points, but this was the essence of it]

I'm not saying that it's done by flexing. But fighting, especially at higher levels, involves a lot of mastering one's own body. Why could one not, with meditation techniques, body control, perhaps a spark of divine blood, become pregnant? I'm not saying "grow uterus". I'm just saying a meditation technique that allows parthenogenesis in a woman is not outside what I'd still include in a high-level world if necessary.

[INoKnowNames]

[There were more points, but this was the essence of it]

I'm glad you understood the essence of it. I know I talk way too freaking much about everything, even when only one part is the important part.


I'm not saying that it's done by flexing. But fighting, especially at higher levels, involves a lot of mastering one's own body. Why could one not, with meditation techniques, body control, perhaps a spark of divine blood, become pregnant? I'm not saying "grow uterus". I'm just saying a meditation technique that allows parthenogenesis in a woman is not outside what I'd still include in a high-level world if necessary.


See, that sounds cool! I could see that happening in a story and flowing rhythmically. It's all in how eloquently you put it, and that sounds far more elegant than "I Iron Heart Surge away not being pregnant".

As I just said, I'd be willing to see something like that out of a high level character, so long as it is done tastefully and with a bit of class.


nine months?

uhhh, just IHS the condition "not finished having baby" away and ecce homo, you've got your little tyke all ready.


Yeah but then you IHS again and Fiat Homo, you've got an useful adult instead of a little poop-factory sprog


Belt of Genderchange exists. Use it, get a baby, then throw it away.


Who needs to be sold on things nowadays? Use Mindrape and she'll be totally okay with it. Remove the spell afterwards. Rogue's got a baby, mission complete.

That does not imply tastefulness or class.


There is a semi-Raw way to achieve this. Like toapat said, there is a curse-drawback for this, but ( going by the d20srd on this so I don't know the actual source ) the curse doesn't work like he/she said it would ( no minus 1 modifier or direction inversion ).

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/cursedItems.htm

30-32 has that the character's gender changes. There is no specifics as to what it changes to. So one of you could be 'cursed' to be a hermaphrodite or shemale. Heck, it can even be a 'quest' to redeem the cursed object.

Op already said that changing genders is looked down upon as an option. I think that was like the 1st thing suggested, actually.

[Zakerst]

Possible "reasonable" interpretation of IHSing a baby into yourself, you know how eggs develop and in the end you get 3 junk cells and one egg with an X in it well the solution is you have such control over yourself that rather than forming in the native fashion you produce an egg with 2 Xs (already fertilized effectively) which then goes on as eggs do (you may need to get the IHS to change some hormonal things and the like but that should be easy considering it fixes just about everything else. You end up with a "kinda clone" of yourself, the rough genetic structure will be the same but the exact ordering of genes will be slightly different due to crossing over and possible mutations.

Weather or not its a valid target for IHS is questionable but it seems a semi-plausible method at least as far as the DND cosmos is concerned. And this is presumably even kinda permissible in places where IHSing the Sun away doesn't work (I'd say you IHS away your vulnerability for a time but would be weak to further sudden exposure but that's besides the point).

[One Step Two]

I'm glad you understood the essence of it. I know I talk way too freaking much about everything, even when only one part is the important part.

As I just said, I'd be willing to see something like that out of a high level character, so long as it is done tastefully and with a bit of class.

That does not imply tastefulness or class.

I understand what you mean, to quote: "Procedure is important." - General Tarquin

It's one thing to simply say: "I become pregnant as a standard action!" No Matter how you come about it it seems klunky and it destroys immersion.
Like any good story, it requires more than just for an event to occur, trials tribulations and, emotions, play a vital role. That said, I submit the following:


The warrior sage, Silent Bells Wisdom, worked in solitude in her secluded Dojo reflecting upon her herself, she tended to the rock garden which had helped smooth her wrinkled thoughts many times in her life. A lifetime of battle which left many different signs, from the deadly grace of her step and casual wariness in her eyes, to the small scars of battles that had been much harder than others. She faced a different battle now, one in which her adventurous lifestyle had left her much alone. She feared now that her years of knowledge that may go wasted.

She herself had sat at the foot of the indomitable Reshar himself as a girl, and earned much more wisdom since then had much to teach. She had trained and lived with many warriors, from the bloodthirsty mercenaries of Lashers Keep, to the silent monks of the Alabaster Crown monastery, and all those things would be lost without a legacy.
With a somewhat defeated sigh she returned the rake to it's stand and made her way to the sparring chamber inside. Meditation brought calm, but working the Nine Forms brought its own clarity, from the brash but insightful Desert Wind, to the inspiration that can be found in White Raven.

It was during her meditation of battle that her first lessons returned to her, "Control of the weapon as a tool for battle is only the first step. Control of the body so that it may become a perfect tool for your soul is the final one." She stopped mid-stance, as an idea began to form in her mind.
She hurriedly left the dojo, stopping only to take a quaterstaff to aid her climb.

Weeks later Silent Bells Wisdom sat upon the peak of a tall mountain with her legs crossed, the staff across her knees. There was little life here save for the sparse grass that tried desperately to reach through the snow, and but for the soft rushes of the wind, there was nothing else. It was that nothingness she focused on, forming a perfect void in her mind. In that void she summoned herself, her own avatar, and began to focus on her training, on the long years that had given her not only mastery of the Nine Swords, but over her own body as well.

When she finally opened her eyes, she looked down expecting to find her belly had grown slightly but she knew that was not the way, not yet at least. She was with child and it filled her with joy, and determination. Smiling serenely, she knew knew that her legacy would be passed on. Taking up her staff, she stood and began to walk down from the mountain, the ground now carpeted in hundreds of newly blossoming flowers.

[toapat]

I can not be the only one who finds that a bit ridiculous.

Although i accept that i suggested having the Idiot Crusader clone themselves twice per minute, that doesnt actually mean i accept that IHS is supposed to do that or that its good storytelling. I dont think ANYONE in this thread thinks IHS spam (although IHS being used to conceive magically id say should be allowed to fly. Just not Spamming it) is acceptable for having a kid, only that its absurd, fits the most literal interpretation of the wording of IHS, and technically solves the OP's problem if not really in a way anyone really wants to say "yes".

The magic strapon seems to be the most useful solution presented other then rituals by clerics of progressive goddesses of fertility. And at least as far as RAW and lore goes in 3rd, it seems almost guaranteed that every belt in a faerun drow necropolis would be of the "magical conception aide" variety

alternatively, whichever caster in the party has access to Bestow Curse or the like can hit them with a simple "-4 Penalty to <lets say Use Psionic Device>, subject can be impregnated by women"

Must. Resist. Urge. to. create. "pureblood". Drow.

[Zakerst]

A more time screwy method might involve more bootstrapping/bad wolfing: The child is going to become an powerful wizard or similar, for reasons (my go to in this case is time war with another wizard) has to go back in time and insure he/she is conceived.

The easiest solutions might be placing his/her mother on the quest for the golden phallus, that he/she half remembers from when he/she asked about reproduction.

The next more direct method would be to be the solution him/herself and use wish/miracle to get the job done (other less alignment friendly options also exist along this line of thought).

Depending on methodologies and contingent spells and what not I might not be possible for him/her to safely use wish or what not to do so. Perhaps then the solution might lie with IHS (I am not conceived/existent) making the mother pregnant.

note the above can all be preformed by any heir along the line, think futurama.

[Kazyan]

I dont think ANYONE in this thread thinks IHS spam (although IHS being used to conceive magically id say should be allowed to fly. Just not Spamming it) is acceptable for having a kid, only that its absurd, fits the most literal interpretation of the wording of IHS, and technically solves the OP's problem if not really in a way anyone really wants to say "yes".

Then why is everyone arguing for how much sense it supposedly makes?

[Urpriest]

Then why is everyone arguing for how much sense it supposedly makes?

Nobody's arguing for how much sense it makes. There are people, me included, arguing that it makes sense for a single use, but not spamming it.

[Shieldbunny]

Getting back to the question at hand.

1. Obtain scroll of Shapechange, and a Wand of Reincarnation.

2. Use UMD to activate Shapechange, turning yourself into a sea cucumber.

3. Bud off a baby.

4. Dismiss Shapechange.

5. Kill your baby.

6. UMD the wand of Reincarnation on the corpse.

7. Repeat Steps 5 & 6 until you roll human.

Yeah your baby is now young adult without having the prerequisite experience, but there are established ways to fix that.

[(Un)Inspired]

Getting back to the question at hand.

1. Obtain scroll of Shapechange, and a Wand of Reincarnation.

2. Use UMD to activate Shapechange, turning yourself into a sea cucumber.

3. Bud off a baby.

4. Dismiss Shapechange.

5. Kill your baby.

6. UMD the wand of Reincarnation on the corpse.

7. Repeat Steps 5 & 6 until you roll human.

Yeah your baby is now young adult without having the prerequisite experience, but there are established ways to fix that.

Non-humanoids don't come back as humanoids.

[Shieldbunny]

Non-humanoids don't come back as humanoids.

The text says "For nonhumanoid creatures, a similar table of creatures of the same type should be created."

Should isn't the same as must.

[toapat]

*snip*

Wish, Miracle, and Regenerate are all much more efficient methods using 9th level spells.

[Shieldbunny]

Wish, Miracle, and Regenerate are all much more efficient methods using 9th level spells.

We were going for efficiency?:smalltongue:

Yes they are, I just chose shapechange because it's the first thing that came to mind that lets split off parts not revert to normal. Though in rereading the SRD entry on polymorph, it seems to lack that clause. So just get a scroll of polymorph, and save some money.

[Sith_Happens]

I remember when I first came to the forum and got introduced to Tome of Battle and accepted that the Fighter is either a glorified door opener or two feat dip without splats or optimization... How far do you go from there to get to "Mind Switching an Ice Assassins of an Alex"?

Not until you've spent ten thousand years on a fast-time plane quietly contemplating the Seven Enlightened Forms of the Tippy.


See, except for the part after vanishes, and only because I feel like that's a reference to something that went over my head, I don't see why that just couldn't be a thing in the first place.

It's a reference to the subtle silliness inherent in Gating a Solar just to knock yourself up.:smallwink:


Because turning off the sun was the joke at least a year ago, and now it's flexing so hard you grow ovaries.

I knew something siggable had to come out of this thread eventually (...okay, a bunch already have).:smallbiggrin:


My argument is the "IRON HEART SURGE (I'm not pregnant!). Peep this scenario; F-Rogue, F-Cleric, M-Warblade, M-Wizard

Clarisa, I'm pregnant!
Oh Racheal, my prayers to Ehlonna were answered! Yay!
Congradulations to the both of you!
Pffbt. Pregnancy is easy. Check this out! *Grunt* Totally preggers now.
... I don't think that's how it works.
I'm pretty sure that's now how it works.
Nah, nah, it's totally legit! Watch! *Grunt, belly appears* Yup. There's a baby in there.
What? Isn't that supposed to take a few months? What is going on?
More importantly, if you are pregnant, where does it come out?
.... good question. Let's find out! *Grunt-[censored/redacted]
OH GOOD LORD IT'S EVERYWHERE!
Sigh... let's clean him up so I can raise him...

I can not be the only one who finds that a bit ridiculous.

[sig-bait intensifies]


That does not imply tastefulness or class.

Of course not. If we'd provided a tasteful and classy context earlier, the thread never would have gotten gems like this:


Clarisa, I'm pregnant!
Oh Racheal, my prayers to Ehlonna were answered! Yay!
Congradulations to the both of you!
Pffbt. Pregnancy is easy. Check this out! *Grunt* Totally preggers now.
... I don't think that's how it works.
I'm pretty sure that's now how it works.
Nah, nah, it's totally legit! Watch! *Grunt, belly appears* Yup. There's a baby in there.
What? Isn't that supposed to take a few months? What is going on?
More importantly, if you are pregnant, where does it come out?
.... good question. Let's find out! *Grunt-[censored/redacted]
OH GOOD LORD IT'S EVERYWHERE!
Sigh... let's clean him up so I can raise him...

:tongue:

More seriously, all of the actual answers were exhausted by the second page, so naturally that left only the deliberately silly stuff to keep the conversation going.


Non-humanoids don't come back as humanoids.

Also, CON loss.

[Alent]

Going to throw a vote in for Prestidigitation and heal checks to achieve the clone solution. I warn you my knowledge of cloning is not as good as most of the biology majors that seem to exist around here, but a psuedo in-chara explanation for how it might go...

Wizard's guild NPC: "Here, consult this chart, it's got the particulars. Might want a few scrolls of guidance of the avatar if you aren't trained enough in medicine."

Party wizard: "So... let's get this straight. I cast prestidigitation, (make a heal check to) use it to take cells from one girl, (make a heal check to) "clean" them, (make a heal check to) remove an egg from the other girl, (make another heal check to) combine the two successfully, then (use a heal check to) move the egg back into place and let nature take it's course?"

Wizard's guild NPC: "That's the gist of it, yeah. Rarely ever see anyone ask for such a complicated procedure, tho'. Usually they just go for a scroll of alter self or head down to the pegasus."

I have no idea what DCs to suggest. I also probably have cloning completely wrong, but hey. It doesn't involve wish, miracle, mindrape, or any other of the nuttier suggestions that have been thrown out thus far.

Actually, I take that back. It probably will require mindrape to make the father accept the results. There you go, Mindrape was involved in the creation of this solution.

[aleucard]

Going to throw a vote in for Prestidigitation and heal checks to achieve the clone solution. I warn you my knowledge of cloning is not as good as most of the biology majors that seem to exist around here, but a psuedo in-chara explanation for how it might go...

Wizard's guild NPC: "Here, consult this chart, it's got the particulars. Might want a few scrolls of guidance of the avatar if you aren't trained enough in medicine."

Party wizard: "So... let's get this straight. I cast prestidigitation, (make a heal check to) use it to take cells from one girl, (make a heal check to) "clean" them, (make a heal check to) remove an egg from the other girl, (make another heal check to) combine the two successfully, then (use a heal check to) move the egg back into place and let nature take it's course?"

Wizard's guild NPC: "That's the gist of it, yeah. Rarely ever see anyone ask for such a complicated procedure, tho'. Usually they just go for a scroll of alter self or head down to the pegasus."

I have no idea what DCs to suggest. I also probably have cloning completely wrong, but hey. It doesn't involve wish, miracle, mindrape, or any other of the nuttier suggestions that have been thrown out thus far.

Actually, I take that back. It probably will require mindrape to make the father accept the results. There you go, Mindrape was involved in the creation of this solution.

Who says that he needs to know? Just tell him magic was involved if he is concerned enough to be able to ask how two females are the biological parents, and leave it at that. If he's the kind of father that deserves the title, he's not going to want to know the particulars of his daughter's sex life. If he's the kind of father that puts more importance behind political crap, then you can direct him to the procedure so he doesn't think demonic influence is involved and it really doesn't matter. I find it hard to believe that a rational person wouldn't accept the involvement of magic in a case like this, with the singular possible exception of a homophobe, in which case the relationship would have ran into problems long before now.

We have just spent several pages discussing a chick getting knocked up by another chick, and the least mind-scarring solutions we've been able to come up with is either getting a Scroll of Wish/Miracle (or equivalent thereof) or a magical strapon from the BOEF (I am not surprised in the slightest). I love this forum.

[toapat]

Going to throw a vote in for Prestidigitation and heal checks to achieve the clone solution. I warn you my knowledge of cloning is not as good as most of the biology majors that seem to exist around here, but a psuedo in-chara explanation for how it might go...

Wizard's guild NPC: "Here, consult this chart, it's got the particulars. Might want a few scrolls of guidance of the avatar if you aren't trained enough in medicine."

Party wizard: "So... let's get this straight. I cast prestidigitation, (make a heal check to) use it to take cells from one girl, (make a heal check to) "clean" them, (make a heal check to) remove an egg from the other girl, (make another heal check to) combine the two successfully, then (use a heal check to) move the egg back into place and let nature take it's course?"

Wizard's guild NPC: "That's the gist of it, yeah. Rarely ever see anyone ask for such a complicated procedure, tho'. Usually they just go for a scroll of alter self or head down to the pegasus."

I have no idea what DCs to suggest. I also probably have cloning completely wrong, but hey. It doesn't involve wish, miracle, mindrape, or any other of the nuttier suggestions that have been thrown out thus far.

Actually, I take that back. It probably will require mindrape to make the father accept the results. There you go, Mindrape was involved in the creation of this solution.

there is more to cloning then exactly that but its basically correct at a high enough level of abstraction.

Personally i think a Curse of "Can be impregnated by women" is probably the least invasive and most practical solution. Who says the rogue doesnt want a few daughters instead of just 1?

[noder]

Well.. there'd be a little rumor chasing and some travel involved, but they could go looking for one of those special fertile groves. If it doesn't specifically say the lover a woman lies with there should be male, then the magic should work. Of course, that means they'd both be pregnant, but think of the extra child as a spare. As an added benefit, these groves provide beautiful scenery if the players intend to roleplay the event. Gorgeous tree canopy, tranquil pool of crystal clear water, soft mossy embankment, the works!

Alternatively, certain trickster fey would probably love to get in on this too, for novelty value and bragging rights in their own realm. Bargaining for a boon with a lord or lady of the fey realm is still the safest thing after juggling dynamite, and you might even get exactly what you intended.

[Heikold]

Not to be that guy who resurrects their old thread, but I just noticed that this kept running for a long time after I got really busy at work and stopped keeping up with it and have a few questions to answer/ask:


This is a fantastic thread :smallbiggrin:

May I sig these?

I consider it an honour that you have.


Does anyone know if a thread about optimizing the magic strap on would violate forum rules? Because I kind of want to accept this challenge.

Red Rubber Band, go ahead and sig away

Did this happen? Please tell me this happened and link me to it.


Now I'm honestly curious: Do you guys actually do some of the things you talk about, or is this just general forum talk? When I came back, I was looking to see if the op gained what he may have needed (though I notice that this is a bit older than I thought it was, so he might not have even seen my comment), so I was coming at it from a genuinely playable standpoint. Are Self Impregnating, Fully Aged Baby Birthing Characters -supposed- to be a thing?

I've asked questions in the past about things that I have no intention of doing, but this isn't one of them. We haven't quite got to this point in the campaign yet as it's very much a side quest based on the motivations of a single character in the party, but we're getting there and probably going to go with the magic strap-on solution. Not that I don't love the others, I simply had a kind of awkward conversation with the player involved and she seemed most on board with that as it didn't at any point involve polymorphing or Mindrape. It's her character so I'm not going to impose any solutions on her that make her uncomfortable. That being said, the "merge" question that came up is something that I perhaps didn't convey. I might need to revisit it with her.


OP, are you familiar with the term "futanari?" Because I'm pretty sure it counts as "within the norms" for humans, it's just one of the much rarer possibilities.:smallwink:

I'm afraid so, but I think your definition of the word "norms" is not the same as mine :smalleek:


This thread...

Just...

Holy Hell, this thread.

I'm both horrified blushing/white faced at the "What the Hell"ness of this thread, and all but falling on the floor, rolling around laughing my ass off.

I'm not sure if I've got scruples or if I'm just as dark as you guys.

That said, to contribute, you guys know that the Book of Erotic Fantasy isn't the only literature dedicated to sexy d20, right? I randomly came across another book, the Book of Unlawful Carnal Knowledge. Fitting title, given that I actually think it's SIGNIFICANTLY less mature than BoEF is. I mention it, however, because it -does- include a direct answer to the op's question.

Impregnate
Conjuration (Creation)
Level: Mdw 7, Src/ Wiz 7
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: touch
Target: 1 female
Duration: special
Saving Throw: Fortitude Negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell creates life and, according to some mytho, a
new soul, in a creature capable of bearing young, i.e. in
creatures, that would be capable of bearing young but are
not due to illness, magic etc, too. The casting of these
spells upon a male, though theoretically possible, would
produce unpredictable effects, although male pregnancy
is not impossible. Casting this spell on an undead is
rumored to result in the gruesome death of both undead
and caster. This spell is highly controversial both for
Good and for Lawful creatures. The material component
for this spell is an arrowhead dipped in rabbit's blood.

I did not make that up. I feel dirty just posting it, let alone having remembered that it exists in the first place. But I suppose that is a direct answer to the op for the sake of the couple in question, is it not?

I need to take a long, long shower, to scrub my body and mind of this admittedly amusing madness. And maybe drink a gallon of bleach.

That's quite a simple and elegant solution. However I don't get why you're so squicky about it. Sex happens as does pregnancy. It's not exactly "disgusting" apart from the rabbit's blood material component and how on earth that's involved in the process. That's just weird.


Sooooo... did we get a yay or nay on Mindrape being a viable option for dealing with both the party-member-in-question's disinterest in getting genderswapped and the paladin's objection to Mindraping in general?

Trust me, if I was going to Mindrape the party paladin I'd do it about something other than this. Sadly I'm not high level enough. I've linked this thread to the DM for the campaign in question so if he comments he may mention my tendency to view morals as optional when playing. Like the incident with the orphanage or the thing with the broken glass and the diving board. It wouldn't be off the cards if level 9 spells weren't in general.

[goodmorning]

Hello all,

I'm the DM for this game, so I wanted to thank you all for 6 pages of ridiculous/genius/helpful/unhelpful/terrifying/hilarious comments and suggestions.

The player in question actually does like the um... False Magic Item idea the best. I'm not making it already existing so its something that will come up later as a quest/research. That is going to be an epic quest.

Now I need to find a way to have a BBEG have developed this magic item as part of their sinister plot, just to see how crazy the quest can get....

[TypoNinja]

Hello all,

I'm the DM for this game, so I wanted to thank you all for 6 pages of ridiculous/genius/helpful/unhelpful/terrifying/hilarious comments and suggestions.

The player in question actually does like the um... False Magic Item idea the best. I'm not making it already existing so its something that will come up later as a quest/research. That is going to be an epic quest.

Now I need to find a way to have a BBEG have developed this magic item as part of their sinister plot, just to see how crazy the quest can get....

I'm having a hard time imagining a plot from a villain that would make use of a such a thing without quickly becoming very dark, and/or involving large amounts of squick. Might want it to just be a curiosity the BBEG collected. Raided the temple of a minor god of fertility or something.

[Eldan]

That's quite a simple and elegant solution. However I don't get why you're so squicky about it. Sex happens as does pregnancy. It's not exactly "disgusting" apart from the rabbit's blood material component and how on earth that's involved in the process. That's just weird.

Sacrifice to a fertilty god, probably. There's a reason we have rabbits at easter.

[Heikold]

Sacrifice to a fertilty god, probably. There's a reason we have rabbits at easter.

Oh of course! "At it like rabbits" is the reference. I get it now.

I was about to say "That makes sense now", but... no.

[atemu1234]

Oh of course! "At it like rabbits" is the reference. I get it now.

I was about to say "That makes sense now", but... no.

Well, to be fair, we made a habit of symbolism. Evergreen trees at Winter Solstice were supposed to help life return in the spring.

[Sith_Happens]

Going to throw a vote in for Prestidigitation and heal checks to achieve the clone solution. I warn you my knowledge of cloning is not as good as most of the biology majors that seem to exist around here, but a psuedo in-chara explanation for how it might go...

Wizard's guild NPC: "Here, consult this chart, it's got the particulars. Might want a few scrolls of guidance of the avatar if you aren't trained enough in medicine."

Party wizard: "So... let's get this straight. I cast prestidigitation, (make a heal check to) use it to take cells from one girl, (make a heal check to) "clean" them, (make a heal check to) remove an egg from the other girl, (make another heal check to) combine the two successfully, then (use a heal check to) move the egg back into place and let nature take it's course?"

Wizard's guild NPC: "That's the gist of it, yeah. Rarely ever see anyone ask for such a complicated procedure, tho'. Usually they just go for a scroll of alter self or head down to the pegasus."

I have no idea what DCs to suggest. I also probably have cloning completely wrong, but hey. It doesn't involve wish, miracle, mindrape, or any other of the nuttier suggestions that have been thrown out thus far.

Actually, I take that back. It probably will require mindrape to make the father accept the results. There you go, Mindrape was involved in the creation of this solution.

One little problem I can see to this method: You'd better hope you're doing it in a setting where the Hayflick limit doesn't exist or else the kid is not going to last long.


Did this happen? Please tell me this happened and link me to it.

Didn't happen on account of there just not being any actual gameplay benefit to having a penis.


Trust me, if I was going to Mindrape the party paladin I'd do it about something other than this. Sadly I'm not high level enough.

So there is a full arcanist in the party then. In that case, refer back to my posts about how Polymorph can probably replicate the effects of the False Phallus, which will save them 6000 gp. Additionally, Bestow Curse can likely ensure conception on the first try.

[Coidzor]

Sooooo... did we get a yay or nay on Mindrape being a viable option for dealing with both the party-member-in-question's disinterest in getting genderswapped and the paladin's objection to Mindraping in general?

If Mindrape is off the table for being too unsavory (reasonable) and she's not interested into polymorphing into a non-human monstrous hermaphrodite to have reproductive sex (prude) then I recommend Mundane Wish Iron heart surge.

It's pretty easy to fit into any build with Heroics or a few free feats. Just have her IHS away the condition of not being pregnant.

Wham Bam no need for a man.


And this is why people ban the weeaboo fightin' magicks book. Bloody Kung Fu masters are so OP they can self procreate. Creating a whole army of the buggers! It only takes 9 months. One weeaboo at a time.

...Well, I have the foundation of the story of my next character's conception and the explanation for several of their backups and nemeses right there. :smallamused:


If you do decide to use materials from the BoEF, consider using both Blessed Seed and Fiendish Seed to give the little tyke a real leg up in the multiverse(kid will be half celestial, half fiend and all whatever the parents are... bonus if one parent is a dragon...)

I'm not sure that the LA would be doing the tyke any favors if they were to become an adventuring type though, so a leg up is a bit debatable there.

[MuddlingThrough]

It's not exactly "disgusting" apart from the rabbit's blood material component and how on earth that's involved in the process. That's just weird.

In addition to the symbolism angle, it may also be a reference to an old pregnancy test (and resulting euphemism for pregnancy). You can Google the "rabbit test" for details, but it involved injecting a rabbit with fluids from a possibly-pregnant woman and, a few days later, checking its ovaries for changes. "The rabbit died" used to be a common phrase for informing people of a pregnancy, since there was a misconception that the rabbit only died if the woman was pregnant.

[TypoNinja]

...Well, I have the foundation of the story of my next character's conception and the explanation for several of their backups and nemeses right there. :smallamused:



I'm not sure that the LA would be doing the tyke any favors if they were to become an adventuring type though, so a leg up is a bit debatable there.

This actually happened in a game I was in, it turned out to be rather hilarious. See, the kid is basically invincible.

Half celestial defenses might seem mediocre to an adventuring standpoint, but basically gives you an invincible toddler. That can fly.

dr5/magic is crappy in combat, but to a kid wandering around town hes basically invincible. Elemental resistances, immune to disease, poison resistance. Nothing will slow this kid down.

Oh yea, on the plus side, he doesn't eat so no diapers. On the downside, he doesn't sleep. You thought a baby was hard to keep track of? This one flys and doesn't sleep.

[Coidzor]

This actually happened in a game I was in, it turned out to be rather hilarious. See, the kid is basically invincible.

Half celestial defenses might seem mediocre to an adventuring standpoint, but basically gives you an invincible toddler. That can fly.

dr5/magic is crappy in combat, but to a kid wandering around town hes basically invincible. Elemental resistances, immune to disease, poison resistance. Nothing will slow this kid down.

Oh yea, on the plus side, he doesn't eat so no diapers. On the downside, he doesn't sleep. You thought a baby was hard to keep track of? This one flys and doesn't sleep.

Yeah, that sounds completely undesirable, unless you want to just throw 'em into a bag of holding with a can of air and keep it closed until they're old enough to mindrape a happy childhood into.

[Eldan]

I suggest a cage. I mean, we already basically use cages for babies, just without the top bit.

[(Un)Inspired]

I suggest a cage. I mean, we already basically use cages for babies, just without the top bit.

That's a good point. Why don't we use the top part?

[With a box]

That's a good point. Why don't we use the top part?

maintenance entrance

[(Un)Inspired]

maintenance entrance

But you could have, like, a hinged lid that you could open and close to get at the little sprog on occasion. Plus, that way there be no crawling out of the cage crib.

[With a box]

But you could have, like, a hinged lid that you could open and close to get at the little sprog on occasion. Plus, that way there be no crawling out of the cage crib.

The same reason that people don't tie there baby to a pole?

[atemu1234]

The same reason that people don't tie there baby to a pole?

Social norms?

[(Un)Inspired]

The same reason that people don't tie there baby to a pole?

Really? I would imagine that being tied to a pole is a very different experience than being in a crib with a lid. But I have to admit, I haven't personally experienced either.

[malonkey1]

Really? I would imagine that being tied to a pole is a very different experience than being in a crib with a lid. But I have to admit, I haven't personally experienced either.

As long as they leave you with a few feet of rope between you and the tree, it's pretty fun. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5tATLPb140)

[Orderic]

While the problem has already been solved, here is my solution.

Step 1: Remove egg from female 1.

Step 2: Apply Polymorph any Object.

Step 3: Insert into female 2.

Please remember to register your child for our complimentary mindrape education program so that we may turn it into a productive and law-abiding citizen.


Of course, there may be some problems if the offspring is ever dispelled...

[dascarletm]

That being said, If one of my players came up to me a proposed using IHS to conceive I would absolutely let them do it. Melee never gets to have nice things. I'm not about to take away their right to have kids.


Mind if I sig this lil' gem?

[malonkey1]

While the problem has already been solved, here is my solution.

Step 1: Remove egg from female 1.

Step 2: Apply Polymorph any Object.

Step 3: Insert into female 2.

Please remember to register your child for our complimentary mindrape education program so that we may turn it into a productive and law-abiding citizen.


Of course, there may be some problems if the offspring is ever dispelled...

Alright, so next thing we need to do is find a way to get an (Ex) Polymorph Any Object?

[(Un)Inspired]

Mind if I sig this lil' gem?

Yeah no problem. I glad you enjoyed it.

[Sith_Happens]

While the problem has already been solved, here is my solution.

Step 1: Remove egg from female 1.

Step 2: Apply Polymorph any Object.

Step 3: Insert into female 2.

Please remember to register your child for our complimentary mindrape education program so that we may turn it into a productive and law-abiding citizen.

Of course, there may be some problems if the offspring is ever dispelled...

Assuming you're turning the first egg into a sperm and using it to fertilize the other,* dispelling actually isn't a problem. By the time the child is born all traces of the PAO'd cell will be long since gone.

* Make sure to Bestow Curse that this for sure works.