Okay, what's up with Genesis?

[ILM]

The way I see it, there are two versions floating around:
- the arcane version in the 3.5 SRD (from the 3.0 ELH?) and 3.0 Defenders of the Faith has a simple text leaving much to interpretation, costs 5,000 XP, and allows (or doesn’t disallow) manipulation of the time trait.
- The psionic SRD and divine (Tome of Magic) versions are much more detailed, disallow exotic materials, manipulation of the time trait and lingering magical effects, cost only 1,000 XP, and somehow allow you to plane shift to your demiplane even though the Manual of the Planes – to my knowledge, the only source that actually describes demiplanes – specifically says you can’t plane shift to a demiplane.

What gives? Am I missing something?

[atemu1234]

From my experience?

There are 3-4 versions of Deeper Darkness floating around, and the common consensus is pick the one you like (usually the most recent one) and use that.

[AmberVael]

What gives? Am I missing something?

While they have the same name, they're on different spell lists. So they don't overlap by RAW, they're just similar powers with an identical name just to mess with your head.

However, the version in the SRD comes from 3.0 sources and is just problematic, so discarding RAW and looking towards practicality and sense, you may just be better off using the Tome of Magic or Psionics version for everyone because its more up to date and less likely to lead to absolute nonsense.

[Bronk]

There's also the similar 'Demiplane Seed' ability from the Manual of the Plane's Planeshifter class.

[Gemini476]

Well, lessee. As far as I know, there are four or so versions of it out there.

The first is the version from Defenders of the Faith and Deities and Demigods, which is exclusive to the Creation domain. A domain that was later changed in Spell Compendium, obsoleting the spell. Whoops.

The second is from the Epic Level Handbook, and is exclusive to Sorcerers and Wizards. Probably because they didn't feel like reprinting the Creation domain. It's otherwise pretty much the same as the first version.

The third version is the psionic Genesis from the SRD and presumably the EPH? I haven't checked. Anyway, it's a power rather than a spell and has somewhat different mechanics from the arcane and divine versions in how it's limited and such. It can also be used in a funky way on the material plane as well, creating a large area of dust.

The fourth version is the Word of Genesis spell from Tome of Magic. It requires a DC 50 Truespeach check. It also has some other funky effects like starting out with a 100-ft radius and not having a size limit AFAICT. Available only to Clerics for whatever reason.

Speaking of size: the divine Genesis grows 1 ft/day to a maximum of 180ft with additional castings adding 60ft, the arcane Genesis does the same except it adds 180ft with additional castings, the psionic Genesis never stops growing although it slows to a crawl beyond 180ft and additional manifestations add 180ft, and Word of Genesis just starts out at 100ft and grows 1ft/week forever with additional castings adding 100ft.

Also, for whatever reason Word of Genesis takes six days to cast rather than the full week all the other versions require.

Word of Genesis and Psionic Genesis both forbid altering the time trait, by the way, while Divine and Arcane Genesis have no such clause. If the latter were reprinted later they would probably have it erratad into them, but they're both 3.0 material outside of the SRD so eh.

[Psyren]

The "you can't plane shift to a demiplane" in MotP is the general rule. It's meant to make your players hunt for the portal to gain access to something you're hiding from them rather than simply hitting level 9 and saying "let's go."

Genesis is the specific exception, so that you (and, as written, only you) can actually get to your Fortress of Solitude.

[evangaline]

Also, for whatever reason Word of Genesis takes six days to cast rather than the full week all the other versions require.

And thy lord created the world in six days, and on the seventh day he rested. WOTC must have been inspired by catholicm

[Rubik]

And thy lord created the world in six days, and on the seventh day he rested. WOTC must have been inspired by catholicmNo comment.

[evangaline]

No comment.

I apologise if I have insulted you, that was not my intention.
The point was that, in christian myth, god created the world in six days. In dnd gods bestow their power onto their subjects. This gives a reasonable explanation for clerics being able to cast genesis in six days.

[Venger]

I apologise if I have insulted you, that was not my intention.
The point was that, in christian myth, god created the world in six days. In dnd gods bestow their power onto their subjects. This gives a reasonable explanation for clerics being able to cast genesis in six days.

I believe Rubik meant "this is not the only aspect of deeandee fluff/crunch inspired by Judeo-Christian mythology/Canon and if we listed all of it, we would be here forever, so let's not get into it/derail" or "not only Catholics believe in a six day world creation, Jews and other denominations also share this belief, but I don't want to talk about it lest I derail the thread with religious discussion which is against the forum rules" rather than imply he was offended.

Personally, I'd never really thought about it before since when ppl mention genesis, they're most commonly referring to the arcane version for batman wizard or the psionic version for psionic tricks. I didn't know the divine one was different, but your insight is a good one. the designers often put in these little nods/references to stuff in the spells, like silent image's material component being wool (pull the wool over your eyes) and etc. thanks for sharing.

[Rubik]

Mostly that it's something we really shouldn't discuss, here.