Pounce + ToB Strikes and Battle Jump from the mid-air?

[Kuroi]

Ok, I'm currently in the end of leveling up my Swordsage2/Druid4 (just got 6th level) and the only thing I'm missing is a Feat.

I play an ACF: Shapeshifter Druid, btw.

And as I was looking at Bestial Charge feat, that will allow me to pounce, one question keeps bugging me - can I perform a Strike maneuver after pounce-charge? Or I'm limited to full-attack only?

Second feat I'm looking at is Battle Jump. The questions here are:
1. If I Shadow Jaunt to the spot in the mid-air and right above enemy's head - will I activate this Battle Jump effect?
2. At next level-up I will be able to shapeshift into a flying form as a swift action and the question is a kin to a #1 - I fly right above the enemy's head and shapeshift. Will I fall and activate Battle Jump?

Thanks for reading ^^

[Venger]

Ok, I'm currently in the end of leveling up my Swordsage2/Druid4 (just got 6th level) and the only thing I'm missing is a Feat.

I play an ACF: Shapeshifter Druid, btw.

And as I was looking at Bestial Charge feat, that will allow me to pounce, one question keeps bugging me - can I perform a Strike maneuver after pounce-charge? Or I'm limited to full-attack only?

Second feat I'm looking at is Battle Jump. The questions here are:
1. If I Shadow Jaunt to the spot in the mid-air and right above enemy's head - will I activate this Battle Jump effect?
2. At next level-up I will be able to shapeshift into a flying form as a swift action and the question is a kin to a #1 - I fly right above the enemy's head and shapeshift. Will I fall and activate Battle Jump?

Thanks for reading ^^

if a maneuver activates on a full attack, yes. if it itself requires a standard or full atk action, you cannot do it.

1) yes
2) you'd need to jump/drop. combine with diving rules for additional bonuses.

[Kuroi]

Thank you :)

[Fouredged Sword]

Note, most teleportation effects have a clause that you must teleport to a surface capable of supporting you. Check the wording of the ability to ensure it does not reference an effect with that restriction.

[Kuroi]

As part of this maneuver, you disappear in a cloud of darkness and teleport up to 50 feet away. You must have line of sight and line of effect to your destination. If you attempt to use this maneuver to move into an occupied space, you do not move, and the maneuver is expended but has no effect.

Nothing about any surface there ^^

[Darrin]

And as I was looking at Bestial Charge feat, that will allow me to pounce, one question keeps bugging me - can I perform a Strike maneuver after pounce-charge? Or I'm limited to full-attack only?


You're limited to a full attack as per the text of the Pounce ability:

"Pounce (Ex): When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can follow with a full attack - including rake attacks if the creature also has the rake ability."

If pounce said you got a full-round action, and it didn't specify what sort of action it had to be, then you could use a Strike with a full-round activation, such as Flashing Sun.

Or put another way, a full attack is a type of full-round action, but not all full-round actions are full attacks. If Pounce gives you a full attack, then that doesn't mean you can replace it with any other full-round action. Martial maneuvers are either standard actions or full-round actions first, and they generally include a standard melee or a full attack, but this does not make them a standard or full attack action in and of themselves.



Second feat I'm looking at is Battle Jump. The questions here are:
1. If I Shadow Jaunt to the spot in the mid-air and right above enemy's head - will I activate this Battle Jump effect?


I say yes, but Curmudgeon is of the opinion that the charge from Battle Jump still needs to meet the requirements of a typical charge, including the full-round action cost. So by his reading, if you used a standard action to Shadow Jaunt, you no longer have a full-round action available to conduct the charge. I find this reading too literal and restrictive, however, and I would allow any action (standard, full, or swift) that results in a fall to trigger Battle Jump. The feat description is so vague and badly worded that you really need to talk this over with your DM and hash out how you want it to work before you start using it.

If your DM doesn't agree, try using Roof-Jumper (Cityscape). The wording is a little different, if not entirely clearer, so you might get more leeway there if Battle Jump falls flat.



2. At next level-up I will be able to shapeshift into a flying form as a swift action and the question is a kin to a #1 - I fly right above the enemy's head and shapeshift. Will I fall and activate Battle Jump?


Opinions differ on whether this is a viable tactic. I would allow this, but the last time this came up, Curmudgeon felt that you still needed a full-round available to activate the charge. So he might allow this to work if your target starts your turn directly underneath you (which is rather unlikely), or you're using some other action to move over your opponent (such as Travel Devotion or hustle). Other DMs may have issues with whether you're deliberately stalling/flying straight down (the rules are unclear if this is the same as "falling"), or get all persnickety about trying to make a Jump check while flying. At my table, this would work perfectly fine.

[Kuroi]

Thanks Darrin, I will try to discuss this with my GM before the next session :)

PS. Love the Shax's Haversack list, using it every time to get some cheap, but very useful items :)

[Darrin]

Thanks Darrin, I will try to discuss this with my GM before the next session :)


Something else you may have to clear up: The rules aren't clear on what happens when you fall directly on top of your opponent. After your charge/pounce attack, you may do falling object damage to your opponent. According to the Core rules, there's no save to avoid falling object damage (although a reasonable DM may rule that there should be). If you use the Aerial Bombardment rules from Heroes of Battle, you may need to make an attack roll to hit your target's square, and there's a Ref save DC 15 to avoid falling objects. If you use the SRD, you do 1d6 damage per 10' fallen up to a maximum of 20d6, and 1d6 for each 200 lbs with no maximum. If you use the Rules Compendium, all falling object damage, both weight and distance, is capped at 20d6. Since there's probably a stacking violation once you enter your opponent's square, you then need to determine if you or your opponent is knocked prone. There are no rules for this, but it's probably easiest to treat this as an unavoidable Overrun: you make a Str check opposed by your opponent's Str or Dex check, loser gets knocked prone.

Add Boots of Landing (MIC), Landing armor property (XPH/MIC), or catfall power to negate some/all of the falling damage and wind up on your feet.

Oh, and one last thing about Pounce:

"Pounce (Ex): When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can follow with a full attack - including rake attacks if the creature also has the rake ability."
(emphasis added)

See that word "follow"? Ask your DM if that means the full attack comes *after* the single melee attack that happens at the end of a charge, or if the full attack *replaces* the single melee attack.

[Kuroi]

Will do, thanks again :smallsmile: