Greater Polymorph vs Undeads

[Zubrowka74]

Hi gang!

I'm currently playing a 15th Level Sorcerer focused on Illusions and Enchantments. I just realised I had a glaring weakness versus undeads... I knew I was going to be weaker against mindless or immune opponents but it seems I'm next to useless.

I originally got two spells to "patch up" any holes and generally adapt to situations that my illusions or mind-affecting couldn't deal with : Limited Wish and Greater Polymorph. Now, I'm not going to burns through diamonds anytime soons, let's leave this for emergencies. I'd like to know if there's some forms available to G.P. that are really usefull vs undeads? Dragon form I is pretty weak at this level, Dragon Horse has a slightly better breath weapon but it's cold damage. Chimera is the go to melee beast I don't have the base stats to really make it work - darn you PF nerfs! All suggestions are welcomed.

[Psyren]

In PF, making polymorph work relies on having decent physical stats, otherwise you will get your ass handed to you. Even if you do, it also (a) forces you to use certain forms (i.e. the ones that you can cast in) and (b) forces you to be in melee, which hampers your ability to cast other kinds of spells. If you're going to shapeshift, your build needs to be designed around that in PF - it can't be just something you decide to do on a whim.

So I advise against that approach. Luckily you're a sorcerer, which means you have a lot of other options for dealing with undead:

1) Blasting - this is a good all-purpose technique to have anyway because it helps you deal with other problematic types too, like plants and oozes. Pick a decent blasting spell and metamagic it, e.g. Intensified Scorching Ray.

2) Summoning - these spells are toolboxes, there's always something useful you can throw at a problem. Unlike shapeshifting, this lets you participate in melee without needing to be strong yourself.

3) Control - if the monsters can't get to you and they can't gang up on the fighter, eventually you will win. Good sorcerer control spells are things with uses in a variety of fights, e.g. Web, Solid Fog, Wall of Force, Telekinesis and Reverse Gravity (i.e. control spells you could see yourself using in more than one fight, or even multiple times in a fight.)

4) Threnodic Spell (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/threnodic-spell-metamagic) - this will let you use your enchantment and illusion spells on undead directly. Get it on a rod if possible.

5) Dominate a bodyguard - this is a more complicated form of #2, but one that will fit with your existing talents and theme. How useful this one ends up being ultimately depends on the DM and what he throws at you, so I personally recommend #4 if enchantments are important.

[Zubrowka74]

In PF, making polymorph work relies on having decent physical stats, otherwise you will get your ass handed to you.

Yeah that's what I discovered after the first fight... I mean, I knew the spells had been nerfed but I never tested the full extent. You get stat boosts - hurray! - but that's it. If your HP or AC sucks, too bad for you...

The thing is I'm stuck with this build. I don't blast, I don't summon, so until I can dominate a suitable meatshield I need an option!

[Psyren]

Yeah that's what I discovered after the first fight... I mean, I knew the spells had been nerfed but I never tested the full extent. You get stat boosts - hurray! - but that's it. If your HP or AC sucks, too bad for you...

The thing is I'm stuck with this build. I don't blast, I don't summon, so until I can dominate a suitable meatshield I need an option!

What about the other two? You don't have any control spells at all and no way of getting a Threnodic Rod?

I would retrain your shapeshifting spells. Telekinesis is not only immensely useful, it's also thematic for an enchanter (you're nearly a psion.)

[Zubrowka74]

What about the other two? You don't have any control spells at all and no way of getting a Threnodic Rod?

I would retrain your shapeshifting spells. Telekinesis is not only immensely useful, it's also thematic for an enchanter (you're nearly a psion.)

Unfortunately I'm out of cash and about to enter the bowels of the earth. The rods are neat but the price is stiff. I do have Telekinesis, altough it seems a dud for now. The foes we battled either had fiat-born immunities or had jolly luck making their saves.

[Psyren]

Fiat is worrying - it suggests your DM wants you to fail, and if that is the case then no amount of advice here will help save "vote with your feet."

For TK, the "Combat Maneuver" use is better - no saving throw, and you can use (Quickened) True Strike to make sure the disarm, trip or grapple lands.

If you can't shop and can't change any of your spells then you're kinda stuck.

[Zubrowka74]

Ah yes, I totally ignored this application (because youknow, maneuvers) but it's true I could try to lockdown the man-sized opponents. 15 rounds, CHA based, no save: it's nothing to sneer at. And I could try dumping 375 lbs rocks on people, when they're available.

As for polymorph, I could try a smaller magical beast to get the AC bonus in. Or just flying and casting - perhaps dragon form does have it's uses after all.

[Urpriest]

Most Illusions should still work on Undead, unless they also have True Seeing.

[Zubrowka74]

Oh right, most of the good stuff are figments or glamer, as opposed to patterns and phantasms.