Arcane Archer and the dipping thereof.

[Ethelesin]

So i wanna make an arcane archer, or well atleast i wanna try and make use of a two level dip in it. The only ideas i've managed to come up with though involved the duskblade/hexblade classes, the abjurant champion and either the Ur-priest or Divine Champion for fast progression 9ths. Any takers for other ways to achieve this?

[Magic Myrmidon]

Well. You could do what (I assume to be) the intended way, and take a level or two of wizard/sorcerer, then a few levels of fighter or ranger or something. But that's probably not the best.

[Teh_das]

See if you can get the PF arcane archer. It gives a spell casting progression, and it's very similar.

[torrasque666]

I'm still wondering if people will ever realize that just because a PrC requires casting doesn't mean its a class for casters. Sometimes casting is the secondary aspect of a character, designed to supplement their abilities, not override them. Arcane Archer is probably intended for the guys who want to cast a few spells offensively but focus on archery.

[darksolitaire]

I'm still wondering if people will ever realize that just because a PrC requires casting doesn't mean its a class for casters. Sometimes casting is the secondary aspect of a character, designed to supplement their abilities, not override them. Arcane Archer is probably intended for the guys who want to cast a few spells offensively but focus on archery.

I agree. Free +5 arrows in a decent chassis isn't at all bad for non-casters. It frees your bow to have other magic item properties.

[A_S]

I'm still wondering if people will ever realize that just because a PrC requires casting doesn't mean its a class for casters. Sometimes casting is the secondary aspect of a character, designed to supplement their abilities, not override them. Arcane Archer is probably intended for the guys who want to cast a few spells offensively but focus on archery.
Unfortunately it is also very bad at this, since all of its abilities have save DC's that are laughably low for when you get them, the +5 AB/damage you get isn't worth a 10 level investment even for a dedicated archer, and if you're not focusing on casting, you won't have any good spells to use with Imbue Arrow.

-----

As for making use of a two-level dip in Arcane Archer, I recommend taking 5 levels of Geometer (Complete Arcane) to get Glyph of Warding and Greater Glyph of Warding onto your arcane spell list, then firing standard-action Glyphs with Imbue Arrow to apply whatever spell you want in a long-range AoE, using the Spell Glyph option.

[Ethelesin]

As for making use of a two-level dip in Arcane Archer, I recommend taking 5 levels of Geometer (Complete Arcane) to get Glyph of Warding and Greater Glyph of Warding onto your arcane spell list, then firing standard-action Glyphs with Imbue Arrow to apply whatever spell you want in a long-range AoE, using the Spell Glyph option.

Geometer seems fun, but in none of my drafts do i get 6th level arcane spells, im strapped for feat tax and BaB requirements as it is.

As a side note, i seem to recall Geometer being used in some crazy high op abjuration focused build that seemed tons of fun, shame i cant find it anywhere doe.

[Curmudgeon]

Well, I wanted to get into Arcane Archer (for that same 2-level dip to acquire Imbue Arrow) from a divine spellcaster base, and came up with this build, heavily focused on feats.


Here's an archer build I came up with a while back, intended to get more archery-related feats in a mostly spellcasting build; it's got something for everybody. (Note: The cheesy bonus feat swap may be RAW legal, but I recommend it only if you want to antagonize your DM.)

Race: Wood Elf (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/elf.htm#woodElf) (+2 DEX, +2 STR, -2 CON, -2 INT; Favored Class: Ranger). Alignment: within 1 step of Chaotic Good. You'll need to join the Order of the Shooting Star (see Champions of Valor). This build requires DEX 17 by the time you get to level 6 for Dead Eye, and DEX 19 later if you pick up Improved Precise Shot.


Cloistered Cleric 1 of Solonor Thelandira. Domains: Knowledge, War, Elf; gain Weapon Focus (longbow) and Point Blank Shot feats as granted powers. Level 1 feat: Precise Shot. Should pick up 1+ ranks in Knowledge (arcana) and 4 ranks in Knowledge (religion).
Mystic Ranger 1 (Ranger variant in Dragon # 336, page 105). Gain wild empathy, Track feat. Should pick up 5 ranks in Survival.
Cloistered Cleric 2. Level 3 feat: Far Shot.
Cloistered Cleric 3.
Mystic Ranger 2. Take Arcane Hunter ACF (Complete Mage, page 32) to get Favored Enemy: Arcanists. Gain 3 more ranks in Survival to get 8 total ranks.
Seeker of the Misty Isle (Complete Divine, page 61) 1. Gain Travel as bonus domain; convert this to Travel Devotion (Complete Champion, page 62) feat. Level 6 feat: Dead Eye (Dragon Compendium, page 95): add DEX bonus to arrow damage within 30'.
Mystic Ranger 3. Choose combat style: archery; this grants the Rapid Shot feat.
Mystic Ranger 4. Gain Endurance as a bonus feat.
Seeker of the Misty Isle 2. You'll now have BAB 6. Level 9 feat: Manyshot.
Seeker of the Misty Isle 3.
Seeker of the Misty Isle 4. Do the Dark Chaos Shuffle (Fiendish Codex I, pages 92 & 95) to swap Track and Endurance for

Sword of the Arcane Order feat (Champions of Valor, page 34): cast Wizard arcane spells in Ranger spell slots; and
Holy Warrior reserve feat (Complete Champion, page 60): add level of highest reserved War spell to weapon damage.
You'll now have Cleric 7 spellcasting, BAB 8, and can cast Ranger/Wizard spells at levels 0-2.
If you want to spread on the cheese sauce, this is where you would do the Dark Chaos Shuffle with the 4 Elf bonus feats
Weapon Proficiency: Elves receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the longsword, rapier, longbow (including composite longbow), and shortbow (including composite shortbow) as bonus feats. and pick up Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell), and Extra Turning; persist Divine Power to keep your BAB up all day.

At this point you qualify to enter Arcane Archer, or you can continue with Seeker of the Misty Isle for more Cleric spellcasting plus other benefits of that PrC.

With Divine Power you'll be at BAB 11.
You'll add (DEX mod +1) to attacks, and (with a composite longbow) (STR mod +4) to damage. (The +1 is from Weapon Focus; the +4 is from Holy Warrior.)
Within 30' you'll add an additional +1 to attacks, and (DEX mod + 1) to damage. (The +1 is from Point Blank Shot; the DEX mod is from Dead Eye.)
You'll have 10 useful feats (or 14 with the cheesy sauce added), without flaws. If at some point you think you've got enough skill ranks in the various Knowledges, you can convert Knowledge domain to Knowledge Devotion for bonuses to attack and damage against the corresponding creature types.

[Snowbluff]

The TO method is to get Arrowsplit (via ranger or the PrCs in Champions of Ruin, or adding it to a list with other tricks), grab a splitting bow, then start tossing area spells with MM like Fell Drain at people.

[gorfnab]

Bard 8/ Arcane Archer 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Ruathar 3 - 16 BAB and 9th level spells. Fun trick for this is Antimagic Field arrows.

[ericgrau]

Unlike taking 10 levels, a dip is actually better for a caster build than an archer build. You want to optimize its imbue arrow. Find close range or personal range area spells. Find ways to keep your distance from foes, and preferably in a way that works with a party. Either keep them away too, at least for your first shot or two, or find a safe way to stay a ways away from the party without getting ganked. Or at the very least stand in back.

AMF arrows are the popular one, but there are a handful of others.

Animate Legion (HoB), Anticold Sphere (SpC), AntiFire Sphere (Sandstorm), Antimagic Field, Arc of Lightning (SpC), Battlefield Fortification (HoB), Blast of Sand (Sandstorm), Coldscream (BoEM), Fear, Forcecage, Globe of Invulnerability an ally, Necrotic Skull Bomb (CR), Overwhelming Revelations (MoE), Wings of Flurry (RotDrg), Zone of Speed (BoEM)

Sniping with forcecages is worth whatever cost. Many of these deal decent hard to resist area damage at low range. Others likewise have status effects or BFC that are great for their level but also limited in range. Zone of speed seems broken even at the original close range. Shuts down and immobilizes nearly everything without ranged spell, SLA, or Su attacks in the 20 foot radius, no save no SR.

[Darkweave31]

Well my favorite arcane archer build is a wizard/sorcerer with the feat spell thematics to make her spells look like arrows fired from an ephemeral bow. Do you really NEED the 2 level dip for your concept?

[Shieldbunny]

Wizard 12/Arcane Archer 2 is always an option if you are just looking to use Imbue Arrow to increase spell range. If you are also looking to boost BAB then, taking Eldritch Knight is a core option that would still get you 9ths.

Edit: Cleaned up errors in spelling.

[Ethelesin]

Currently thinking about Hexblade5/Abjurantchampion3/UrPriest3/ArcaneArcher2/UrPriest+7, get Zen archery for Wisdom synergy, DMM-persist shenanigans and touch spells delivered at range. Problem with the above is that it leaves me strapped for literally everything, feats, skill points and i might have to use flaws to make ends meet.

[Telok]

I just noticed that except for the Enchance Arrow ability all of the Arcane Archer's class features are spell like abilities. There might be some way to leverage that.

[Forrestfire]

Well my favorite arcane archer build is a wizard/sorcerer with the feat spell thematics to make her spells look like arrows fired from an ephemeral bow. Do you really NEED the 2 level dip for your concept?

Don't even need Spell Thematics, actually. The DMG states that players are free to refluff the appearance as they see fit.

[Snowbluff]

I just noticed that except for the Enchance Arrow ability all of the Arcane Archer's class features are spell like abilities. There might be some way to leverage that.

This part has always confused me.

Can you Quicken SLA it? What level would it be?

Is it replicating your spell? Does it take the spells level? Does it make the Spell an SLA? Does that mean it has no components?

Does the spell work in an AMF if it was an Instantaneous Conjuration? Does being an SLA change that? Can the spell like ability "Imbue Arrow" trigger if the arrow lands in an AMF?

So, I ignore it. I haven't found a way to figure this stuff out, so I avoid using MetaSLA and shooting Imbued Arrows into AMF.

[SiuiS]

Unfortunately it is also very bad at this, since all of its abilities have save DC's that are laughably low for when you get them, the +5 AB/damage you get isn't worth a 10 level investment even for a dedicated archer, and if you're not focusing on casting, you won't have any good spells to use with Imbue Arrow.

Dance of ruin. :smallbiggrin:

Remember, prestige classes were designed for games with much lower optimization and a commensurately lower power benchmark – the power level of an assassin and an arcane archer is more flavorful cool on the level of 'my Druid is a nature-y healer with a wolf scout who he loves too much to let fight heavily'.

[Rebel7284]

Mystic Ranger 6 with Sword of the Arcane Order is a pretty great Arcane Archer entry class.

[WhamBamSam]

A cheesy build for your viewing pleasure.

Half Elf Sha'ir 6/Ordained Champion 3/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 1/Arcane Archer 2/Sacred Exorcist +3
1. Sha'ir 1 - Human Heritage, Otherworldly [Flaw], Weapon Focus (Longbow) [Flaw]
2. Sha'ir 2
3. Sha'ir 3 - Knowledge Devotion (Religion)
4. Sha'ir 4
5. Sha'ir 5
6. Sha'ir 6 - Southern Magician
7. Ordained Champ 1
8. Ordained Champ 2
9. Ordained Champ 3 - Combat Casting
10. Abjurant Champ 1
11. Abjurant Champ 2
12. Abjurant Champ 3 - Point Blank Shot
13. Abjurant Champ 4
14. Abjurant Champ 5
15. Sacred Exorcist 1 - Precise Shot
16. Arcane Archer 1
17. Arcane Archer 2
18. Sacred Exorcist 2 - Travel Devotion
19. Sacred Exorcist 3
20. Sacred Exorcist 4

Sha'ir is a divine spellcasting class as well as an arcane one by virtue of the way its domain access works, so it can be advanced by Ordained Champion (using the adaptation to some deity with Longbow as a favored weapon), but qualifying is a bit tricky, as we need to be able to cast Magic Weapon as a divine spell, have weapon focus in our deity's favored weapon, and have 7 ranks in Knowledge (Religion). For the Magic Weapon prereq, we need Southern Magician, and since we need to be an Elf for Arcane Archer, that means being a Half-Elf with Human Heritage (the racial +2 to Diplomacy also helps with spell retrieval). For Weapon Focus we first need proficiency, and since we're an elf, the best way to achieve this is the Otherworldly feat (using the Celestial-attended birth option in Champions of Valor) for the outsider type. Finally, we simply use Knowledge Devotion (which is good for archers anyhow) to get Knowledge (Religion) as a class skill. From there, qualification is much simpler, though we still end up starved for feats.

The purpose of squeezing in Ordained Champion is for all day uses of Channel Spell into a melee weapon for spells of no more than a standard action. Elvencraft Bows are melee weapons, so they are valid targets for the ability, and allow you to channel a spell into a bow attack (there are only a few ways in which the melee part and ranged part of the weapon are separate). Channel Spell is a move action and Imbue Arrow a standard action, so you can fire an arrow carrying two spells in a single round. You've also got Travel Devotion and a Turning Pool to fuel it (so you can move and shoot an arrow with two spells on it in the same round), the Outsider Type for Arrow Demon Draconic Polymorph and 16 BAB (if you ever want to full attack), and 9th level spells. I wish I could've pulled it off without flaws, but that just wasn't happening for a Sha'ir based build.

A Divine Crusader based build on the other hand? That we can do without flaws.

Elf, Star Elf, or Painted Elf Cleric 4/Duskblade 3/Arcane Archer 2/Divine Crusader 1/Ordained Champion 3/Seeker of the Misty Isle 7
1. Cleric 1 - Aereni Focus (Iaijutsu Focus), Point Blank Shot [Elf Domain], Weapon Focus (Longbow) [War Domain]
2. Cleric 2
3. Duskblade 1 - Precise Shot
4. Duskblade 2 - Combat Casting [Duskblade]
5. Cleric 3
6. Duskblade 3 - Travel Devotion
7. Cleric 4
8. Arcane Archer 1
9. Arcane Archer 2 - Quick Draw
10. Divine Crusader 1
11. Ordained Champ 1
12. Ordained Champ 2 - Open, Diehard [Ordained Champ]
13. Ordained Champ 3
14. Seeker of the Misty Isle 1
15. Seeker of the Misty Isle 2 - Open
16. Seeker of the Misty Isle 3
17. Seeker of the Misty Isle 4
18. Seeker of the Misty Isle 5 - Open
19. Seeker of the Misty Isle 6
20. Seeker of the Misty Isle 7

Take the Elvencraft Bow cheese up to 11. Drawing your Elvencraft Bow is drawing a melee weapon, so you can Iaijutsu Focus with it in addition to slinging two spells. Use Substitute Domain and possibly Heretic of the Faith to bounce around your various domains (you add one to Cleric with Ordained Champ 1, and add two to Divine Crusader with Seeker of the Misty Isle). 16 BAB, 9th level spells, Iaijutsu damage based on your high Cha, the ability to add two spells to an attack in melee or at range, and the ability to annoy everyone at your table by being the elfiest elf to ever elf.

Choices for open feats might include Heretic of the Faith for more domain options, Woodland Archer because it's generally pretty good and testing for range is better when it comes with an area spell, Obtain familiar for a lackey whose job it is to help you put your bow away every round, Metamagic, Darkstalker if you can manage the stealth skills, and so on.

EDIT: Giving it some more thought, I think I can improve on the Divine Crusader a bit.

NG Female Lesser Drow Cloistered Cleric of the Sovereign Host 1/Duskblade 3/Ordained Champion 3/Arcane Archer 2/Divine Crusader of the Sovereign Host 3/Sovereign Speaker 4/Prestige Ranger 2/Contemplative 2
1. Cloistered Cleric 1 (War, Travel, Knowledge) - Aereni Focus (Iaijutsu Focus), Weapon Focus (Longbow) [War Domain], Knowledge Devotion [Trade Out Knowledge Domain]
2. Duskblade 1
3. Duskblade 2 - Track, Combat Casting [Duskblade]
4. Duskblade 3
5. Ordained Champion 1 (Animal Domain) - Point Blank Shot [Trade Out Travel Domain's Granted Power via Combat Feats Ability], Travel Devotion [Trade out Travel Domain itself], Quick Draw [Trade granted power from Animal Domain]
6. Ordained Champion 2 - Diehard [Ordained Champion], Precise Shot
7. Ordained Champion 3
8. Arcane Archer 1
9. Arcane Archer 2 - Worldly Focus
10. Divine Crusader 1
11. Sovereign Speaker 1
12. Sovereign Speaker 2
13. Sovereign Speaker 3 - Rapid Shot
14. Sovereign Speaker 4
15. Contemplative 1 - Endurance
16. Prestige Ranger 1
17. Prestige Ranger 2 - Manyshot
18. Contemplative 2 - Open
19. Divine Crusader 2
20. Divine Crusader 3

Seeker of the Misty Isle is an alternate option to Sovereign Speaker which doesn't get as many domains (just Travel as opposed to 4 of your choice from the Sovereign Host list), but saves a feat and a caster level. Ranger exclusive spells include lots of good archery stuff, but it might not be worth the feat tax to get into Prestige Ranger. The important change to the above is that Cloistered Cleric 1/Duskblade 3/Ordained Champ 3/Arcane Archer 2 using some Ordained Champ feat shenanigans makes for a better base which frees up some more options later. Female Lesser Drow is just here for Cleric as a favored class. If you don't play with multiclass penalties at your table, feel free to use Star Elf or Painted Elf if you think their respective stat boosts/penalties are better.

EDIT 2: Just realized that the Longbow is not the favored weapon of the Sovereign Host, and I don't know of anything else that's close enough to a deity for Divine Crusader that gives War and Travel. I'm not sure how to fix that offhand, besides Heretic of the Faith. Might just need to convert it to a less ambitious build.

[Talionis]

Two ideas

Chameleon, most of the good archer spells are ranger spells so you can get all of them. You have a great caster level without having to dedicate your whole character to casting. Assassin has some good spells too. But you'll be able to find plenty of area affect spells for arcane archer too.

Alchemical Arrows and the Alchemist Savant from Magic of Eberron. It allows you to put a spell in the arrow, so you can cast multiple spells with an arrow shot.

Good luck!

[WhamBamSam]

Two ideas

Chameleon, most of the good archer spells are ranger spells so you can get all of them. You have a great caster level without having to dedicate your whole character to casting. Assassin has some good spells too. But you'll be able to find plenty of area affect spells for arcane archer too.

Alchemical Arrows and the Alchemist Savant from Magic of Eberron. It allows you to put a spell in the arrow, so you can cast multiple spells with an arrow shot.

Good luck!Chameleon requires either flaws or opening with a level in Half-Elf Paragon to get both Human Heritage and Able Learner at 1st level, as in my Sha'ir build above. I got the idea from an excellent Chameleon Arcane Archer from Piggy Knowles thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?284283-Piggy-Knowles-Archer-Build-Thread) on archer builds.

[Snowbluff]

You know, Arrowsplit would make your build even better. I like the use of the Elvencraft bow. I consider it iffy, but that's a damn good idea to use Iaijutsu with a bow.

[WhamBamSam]

You know, Arrowsplit would make your build even better. I like the use of the Elvencraft bow. I consider it iffy, but that's a damn good idea to use Iaijutsu with a bow.It'd certainly be a nice thing. I'm not sure it'd multiply the channeled spell, since that cares about the bow rather than the arrow, but even so. It's sort of a shame that Assassin and Justice of Weald and woe are things, otherwise a dip in Prestige Ranger could scoop it up. Any thoughts on how it might fit in, besides the most permissive interpretation of Extra Spell?

As for iffiness, Iaijutsu with an Elvencraft Bow is pretty cut and dry.
If you attack a flat-footed opponent immediately after drawing a melee weapon, you can deal extra damage, based on the result ofan Iaijutsu Focus check. In addition, if you and your opponent both agree to participate in a formal iaijutsu duel, your Iaijutsu Focus check replaces your initiative check for the ensuing combat. In an iaijutsu duel (see Chapter 6), you and your opponent make opposed Iaijutsu Focus checks, and the winner accumulates extra damage dice according to the accompanying table. You can also use Iaijutsu Focus in preparation for striking an inanimate object, assuming no distractions. Your extra damage is halved, just like your ordinary damage. This is the technique martial artists use to shatter objects.Emphasis mine. You're certainly drawing a melee weapon when you draw an Elvencraft Bow. Hell, it's pretty clear that drawing a Quickrazor then attacking with something else that you were already wielding and dealing Iaijutsu damage works. One could argue that it shouldn't work, but RAW will disagree with them even if no one else will.

I've sort of come to accept that no one loves Elvencraft Bow cheese quite as much as I do (with the possible exception of the Factotum in a game I'm currently running), but hey, whatever.

[Ethelesin]

@WhamBamSam I appreciate your input, and the builds are actually pretty cool as for "Elvencraft Bow Cheese" well, you just found yourself another fan.

Part of me still wants to do something with either Divine Crusader or Ur-Priest though... Though im pretty sure that a Divine Crusader "based" Arcane Archer has been done to death already. Any way of getting more domains for DC?

[Snowbluff]

As for iffiness, Iaijutsu with an Elvencraft Bow is pretty cut and dry. Emphasis mine. You're certainly drawing a melee weapon when you draw an Elvencraft Bow. Hell, it's pretty clear that drawing a Quickrazor then attacking with something else that you were already wielding and dealing Iaijutsu damage works. One could argue that it shouldn't work, but RAW will disagree with them even if no one else will.

I've sort of come to accept that no one loves Elvencraft Bow cheese quite as much as I do (with the possible exception of the Factotum in a game I'm currently running), but hey, whatever.


An elvencraft longbow functions as a quarterstaff when wielded as a melee weapon. Someone might complain if you were to try and make it count as a melee weapon while not making a melee attack. Quickrazor works, but it's not as cool. :smallcool:

I played a Decisive Monk/Factotum archer once. It was the only time I was accused of rocket tag.

There is a PrC that would let you add it to the list. IDR what it was, though.

[WhamBamSam]

@WhamBamSam I appreciate your input, and the builds are actually pretty cool as for "Elvencraft Bow Cheese" well, you just found yourself another fan.

Part of me still wants to do something with either Divine Crusader or Ur-Priest though... Though im pretty sure that a Divine Crusader "based" Arcane Archer has been done to death already. Any way of getting more domains for DC?That's what Seeker of the Misty Isle is for in the first Divine Crusader build, and what Sovereign Speaker, Contemplative, and Prestige Ranger (the last is technically not adding a domain, but providing much appreciated spell list expansion in the form of Ranger-unique spells) are for in the second one.


Someone might complain if you were to try and make it count as a melee weapon while not making a melee attack. Quickrazor works, but it's not as cool. :smallcool:

I played a Decisive Monk/Factotum archer once. It was the only time I was accused of rocket tag.I can see the argument there. The text does also say this...

Thanks to Elven ingenuity, these weapons function just as well as melee weapons as they do as ranged weapons.Of course, that gets into the old D&D problem of where the flavor text ends and where the crunch text begins.

Also, "wield" doesn't just mean "attack with." You can certainly be wielding it as a melee weapon as soon as it's drawn, so the debate would be over the span of time it takes to make a free action, if that.

EDIT:
There is a PrC that would let you add it to the list. IDR what it was, though.Hmm. To your recollection, did it work for divine casters? It sounds more like an arcane thing.

[Snowbluff]

I can see the argument there. The text does also say this...
Of course, that gets into the old D&D problem of where the flavor text ends and where the crunch text begins.

Also, "wield" doesn't just mean "attack with." You can certainly be wielding it as a melee weapon as soon as it's drawn, so the debate would be over the span of time it takes to make a free action, if that.
Like I said, it's iffy. Also, you can't wield a quarterstaff in one hand, can you? Again, it's a weird rule, and just using a smaller bow would fix it. I'd allow it, though.


EDIT: Hmm. To your recollection, did it work for divine casters? It sounds more like an arcane thing.
Doesn't look like it. PrC Ranger might be your best bet. You might want to look into making a wand. Miracle or Limited Wish would grant the ability to cast the spell.

[StreamOfTheSky]

I would use the dip on a mostly pure arcanist to do shenanigans with Imbue Arrow, not as a martial w/ an arcane dip. You want to be shooting Anti-magic Field arrows and possibly Guards and wards arrows when indoors / in a dungeon.

To get Glyph of Warding and such on your list...you could always take Use Magic Device ranks and just custom make a runestaff. Or be a generic spellcaster from UA and get to pick from cleric and sorc/wiz lists.

If you do use PF Arcane Archer, it nerfs the "always standard action" part away, which really bites. On the other hand, it now uses the casting time of the spell, so PF's Emergency Force Sphere (immediate action sphere of force around you to just say no to anything), already an amazing and overpowered defensive spell, now becomes an immediate action interrupt to trap enemies with.

[WhamBamSam]

Like I said, it's iffy. Also, you can't wield a quarterstaff in one hand, can you? Again, it's a weird rule, and just using a smaller bow would fix it. I'd allow it, though.Here's what the SRD says on the point.
Light, One-Handed, and Two-Handed Melee Weapons
This designation is a measure of how much effort it takes to wield a weapon in combat. It indicates whether a melee weapon, when wielded by a character of the weapon’s size category, is considered a light weapon, a one-handed weapon, or a two-handed weapon.

Light
A light weapon is easier to use in one’s off hand than a one-handed weapon is, and it can be used while grappling. A light weapon is used in one hand. Add the wielder’s Strength bonus (if any) to damage rolls for melee attacks with a light weapon if it’s used in the primary hand, or one-half the wielder’s Strength bonus if it’s used in the off hand. Using two hands to wield a light weapon gives no advantage on damage; the Strength bonus applies as though the weapon were held in the wielder’s primary hand only.

An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon.

One-Handed
A one-handed weapon can be used in either the primary hand or the off hand. Add the wielder’s Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with a one-handed weapon if it’s used in the primary hand, or ½ his or her Strength bonus if it’s used in the off hand. If a one-handed weapon is wielded with two hands during melee combat, add 1½ times the character’s Strength bonus to damage rolls.

Two-Handed
Two hands are required to use a two-handed melee weapon effectively. Apply 1½ times the character’s Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with such a weapon.Emphasis mine. It looks to me like the Light/One-Handed/Two-Handed distinction only comes into play when you're wielding the weapon already. So I think you can wield a quarterstaff one handed, you just can't be good at it. And yeah, using a shortbow would solve the problem, though that does force you into Heretic of the Faith for a Divine Crusader build, as I don't think there are any deities with the shortbow as a favored weapon.

I'll agree that it could be seen as a little iffy, but I do think that both ranged channeling and iaijutsu with elvencraft bows work.


Doesn't look like it. PrC Ranger might be your best bet. You might want to look into making a wand. Miracle or Limited Wish would grant the ability to cast the spell.Prestige Ranger doesn't work, sadly.
Unique Spells
The bard, paladin, and ranger spell lists contain a number of spells that don't appear on other classes' spell lists. In general, any character who enters one of these prestige classes should gain access to spells unique to that class's spell list, at the same levels indicated for the standard class. At the game master's discretion, spells unique to that class's spell list found in other books may also be available, but on a case by case basis. The game master may require such spells to be researched or learned specifically by the character, rather than simply making them freely available.Again, emphasis mine. Arrowsplit is on the Assassin and Justice of Weald and Woe spell lists, so it's a no-go. Hunter's Eye and Hunter's Mercy are worth the price of admission in a lot of builds, but there are pretty significant limits to what dips in the Prestigious classes can actually get you.

[Snowbluff]

I'll agree that it could be seen as a little iffy, but I do think that both ranged channeling and iaijutsu with elvencraft bows work.

Prestige Ranger doesn't work, sadly. Again, emphasis mine. Arrowsplit is on the Assassin and Justice of Weald and Woe spell lists, so it's a no-go. Hunter's Eye and Hunter's Mercy are worth the price of admission in a lot of builds, but there are pretty significant limits to what dips in the Prestigious classes can actually get you.

Hrmm... I guess extra spell is really the way to go. If you were doing an Arcane-centric build, the Wyrm Wizard PrC would solve it simply and easily. You do lose a CL. That makes 3 lost with the AA.

[WhamBamSam]

Hrmm... I guess extra spell is really the way to go. If you were doing an Arcane-centric build, the Wyrm Wizard PrC would solve it simply and easily. You do lose a CL. That makes 3 lost with the AA.Wyrm Wizard is specific to prepared casting, which is bothersome, but a focused Wizard/Wu Jen Arcane Archer is potentially fun. I'm fond of a combination of Arcane Archer, Binder/Anima Mage, and Tainted Scholar to make Apocalypse from the Sky cheap, easy and functional, but sadly adding Wyrm Wizard into that cocktail costs one too many caster levels.

[A_S]

Dance of ruin. :smallbiggrin:
Uh, 2d20 damage, reflex half? That's even more underwhelming than the rest of what Arcane Archer does.

Remember, prestige classes were designed for games with much lower optimization and a commensurately lower power benchmark – the power level of an assassin and an arcane archer is more flavorful cool on the level of 'my Druid is a nature-y healer with a wolf scout who he loves too much to let fight heavily'.
I mean, everything in D&D was designed for low-op games, because the designers had no idea how the high-op metagame worked when they designed their stuff. That doesn't mean I should take a prestige class that makes my character bad at what I want my character to be good at, just because the name of the class sounds appropriate.

If I'm making an arcane archer, what I want is a character who effectively combines archery and magic. If the Arcane Archer PrC doesn't help me achieve that (or doesn't help me achieve that with more than a 2-level dip), then I don't see what's so "flavorful cool" about having 10 levels in it on a character who, it turns out, still isn't any good at combining archery and magic in combat.

[Ethelesin]

And yeah, using a shortbow would solve the problem, though that does force you into Heretic of the Faith for a Divine Crusader build, as I don't think there are any deities with the shortbow as a favored weapon.

Telchur (Frostburn page 43) Would like to have a very serious talk with you.


Bars 8/ Arcane Archer 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Ruathar 3 - 16 BAB and 9th level spells. Fun trick for this is Antimagic Field arrows.

@Gorfnab, cant belive i missed this, simple, elegant and great for some sort of "champion of elvenkind" if not outright a PC.

[WhamBamSam]

Telchur (Frostburn page 43) Would like to have a very serious talk with you.I blame the deities by favored weapon list I'd been using. It only lists shortspear as a favored weapon for him.

Ordained Champion's adaptation section does specify that the deity should be a War deity, so while you could have an Arcane Archer/Divine Crusader of Telchur using a shortbow, but the setup I had going won't work.

[Ethelesin]

Ordained Champion's adaptation section does specify that the deity should be a War deity, so while you could have an Arcane Archer/Divine Crusader of Telchur using a shortbow, but the setup I had going won't work.

He may not be a flat out "war" deity but he is a pretty angry one, im sure with Heretic of the Faith (if it works like i think it does) it would fly at most tables.

[Snowbluff]

Wyrm Wizard is specific to prepared casting, which is bothersome, but a focused Wizard/Wu Jen Arcane Archer is potentially fun. I'm fond of a combination of Arcane Archer, Binder/Anima Mage, and Tainted Scholar to make Apocalypse from the Sky cheap, easy and functional, but sadly adding Wyrm Wizard into that cocktail costs one too many caster levels.
Yeah. You'd have to go prepared with that many CL lost, anyway. Well, not have to...

I blame the deities by favored weapon list I'd been using. It only lists shortspear as a favored weapon for him.

I bet it doesn't even have Snowbluff or Tippy on it. :smalltongue:

[gorfnab]

@Gorfnab, cant belive i missed this, simple, elegant and great for some sort of "champion of elvenkind" if not outright a PC.
Here is a another one you might like Susan the Duskblade Arcane Archer (3rd post down, by carnivore) (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=525.20)

[Ethelesin]

Here is a another one you might like Susan the Duskblade Arcane Archer (3rd post down, by carnivore) (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=525.20)

That... That is so close to my original idea for an arcane archer it's downright amazing (Though i guess it's probably the "obvious" way to do AAs) i used Drow instead of Fire-Elf though and never equipped him but still. Still, a good idea and worth a read, if only for the item "suggestions" if nothing else.