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Thatwarforged
2014-11-27, 06:18 AM
So alot of my players are MMOers and are wanting a more mmo like game. So why we do pathfinder i started building a system like what you see in Log horizon and SAO. The issue i ran across is how many levels i should do i was thinking a hundred with players leveling 3-4 times a session but im a little afraid that this with desensitized them with leveling. I would prefer something over 30 in levels so any suggestions? Also anyother MMO like mechanic suggestions would be awesome.

BWR
2014-11-27, 07:14 AM
One of the common complaints about D&D 4e is that it's too much like an MMO. Having only once read through the PHB that was my impression too, FWIW. So if you are looking for mechanics that emulate MMOs that might be a place to start.

Apart from that, unless levelling adds very little by the way of new stuff it will seriously bog down the game to level multiple times per session. I believe 4e goes up to 30th level, so that might be a bit slow for your taste.
Unless you want the game to run to very high level, you'll have to put in quite a bit of work to expand the levels but keep the same basic power level in a 3.x system.

If my own prejudices might show for a moment, you are likely better off playing MMOs if you want to play games with MMO mechanics. Enjoy the benefits and possibilities of PnP systems that don't work on MMOs.

Cazero
2014-11-27, 07:26 AM
If you want the MMO feel of levelling several times a session, you can basically map a 20 level progression on a 100 level scale or something, effectively splitting all leveling benefits among several levels. But here lies madness.

MMOs have so many levels because almost everything you gain when levelling is instantly added to your virtual character sheet by the computer. Doing it by hand is much, much longer. This is why it is a bad idea to actually gain several level during the same gaming day, especially if your MMO feel was built by splitting each level into three of five. Gaining only one level at the end of the session would be much simpler and save time.

A better solution would be to find a different system without character level, in wich each skill is levelled independantly with experience. In such a system, you can allow your players to spend their XP without having to stop the game for half an hour.

Thatwarforged
2014-11-27, 08:30 AM
So to BRW the group started with 4e unfortunatly 4e required the intruduction of house rules every session to keep some balance and around 13 level or so monsters and players become completely unequal require monster to be seriously gimped each game. All that work i might as well build a diffirent game system. The reason why the party doesnt just do mmos is that they want the freedom that pnp gives. The reason that they want a more mmo feel is with dnd character classes have no actual party role. A cleric may be a healer in essence but most build em as a super buff and be a perfect fighter.

To cazero i perfer not to run levelless mainly for the fact all of the systems i've ran into characters are way to easy to break. I was thinking to basicly split up the levels like you said but you are refering to it as madness making me less then eager to do that.

So i think i will do what 4e did with 30 levels just add passive instead of making all levels give powers. I still would love anymore advice.

BWR
2014-11-27, 10:54 AM
The reason that they want a more mmo feel is with dnd character classes have no actual party role. A cleric may be a healer in essence but most build em as a super buff and be a perfect fighter.


Ah. If it's a problem of player preconceptions we can't really help you. The classic D&D party is fighter, thief, cleric, magic user, not tank, dps, healer, [whatever]. Various classes can function in those discrete roles but it's perfectly possible to have a party of nothing but tanks, or nothing but dps - the DM just has to adjust the adventure to suit the party. You can build most classes to perform a specific role (given that it's within the broad realm of possibility for that class). The best thing to do would be to would be to disregard the idea of roles and focus on what character and/or fantasy archetype they want to play, then adjust adventures to fit that. To use your example, a cleric isn't a healer, a cleric is a proxy of a divine being, who works to promote her god's agenda on her world. A cleric may decide to focus on healing, or melee combat or supporting her allies in combat or any number of other things. However, the devotion to the god is the primary function and goal of the cleric, not her party role.
Trying to hack PF to work over more levels won't help your game feel more MMO like if they have a problem with roles - you're just as badly off, or worse, as trying to fix 4e. 4e was very focused on roles, 3.x isn't. There are lots of class and build guides on the net if they need help finding out how to make certain concepts work. Merely splitting existing levels into more smaller ones is a lot of work, takes a lot of time to implement in game and doesn't really help the problem of the players not getting the existing system. Adding more levels and powers just makes them more powerful and if they have a problem with the game as is, just adding more of the same won't work.

However, if you are intent on your course, I see a few of simple options.
1. Between each level you have about 5 'mini-levels' that cost some percentage of the level you are going to (say you need 2000 xp to advance from X to Y, each mini-level costs about 200 xp). Each of these levels grants a small amount of hp (2 or 3) and some other minor bonus like an extra skill point. This would make your characters a bit tougher but not slow down the game more than 20 seconds or so. If you don't mind making characters a bit tougher still, maybe they can get something like "1/day gain a +1 bonus to any roll" ability on each mini-level. A minor but useful ability that won't make a terribly big difference and won't take a lot of time to add to the character sheet.
The drawback is that it gets old fast and is of less use the higher level you get ( maybe you could allow them to stack uses on a single roll).

2. some gestalt version. The benefit is that with more abilities it's easier to build for a specific role. You can even rule that once they reach the half-way point for the level they're headed they get one of the classes, then the other when they reach the target level. Quicker leveling. The drawback is if they have a problem with the existing rules, giving people more of the same rules doesn't exactly make things better.

3. Just remove the level cap. Use Fast xp progression, give them lots of fights. That should get them leveled up quickly with a minimum of fuss. Big problem is that they will quickly outstrip any official beasties in power unless you rebuild things to be a challenge. Lots of people do this but again if they have trouble with the idea of the game rather than mechanics, this won't help.

LibraryOgre
2014-11-27, 11:11 AM
So to BRW the group started with 4e unfortunatly 4e required the intruduction of house rules every session to keep some balance and around 13 level or so monsters and players become completely unequal require monster to be seriously gimped each game. All that work i might as well build a diffirent game system. The reason why the party doesnt just do mmos is that they want the freedom that pnp gives. The reason that they want a more mmo feel is with dnd character classes have no actual party role. A cleric may be a healer in essence but most build em as a super buff and be a perfect fighter.

...

So i think i will do what 4e did with 30 levels just add passive instead of making all levels give powers. I still would love anymore advice.

I'm not as familiar with them, but the 4e D&D Essentials system was supposed to reduce the number and influence of powers, while keeping the same ideas.

However, I think 4e would still work pretty well if you simply had every keep their 1st or maybe 2nd level powers, and just increased their innate bonuses as they level up.

Thatwarforged
2014-11-27, 12:02 PM
I'm not as familiar with them, but the 4e D&D Essentials system was supposed to reduce the number and influence of powers, while keeping the same ideas.

However, I think 4e would still work pretty well if you simply had every keep their 1st or maybe 2nd level powers, and just increased their innate bonuses as they level up.

The monsters get insanely powerful as the party goes up in level making it hard to balance monster without intense playtesting them. I tpked the party on a cr11 monster as they were 13th level and I was only roll moderatly well as they were rolling average. This was with a group who have been playing for a year or so.

Anyway what i want to say is the party decided on roles in a sense with the group of five we have three new folks. The oldies are a bard and rogue and the new ones are a fighter being a tank, a cleric trying to be a healer and a ranger who wants to do damage with two weapon style. The issue is that the cleric is angry because the bard is being a better healer then him, because the bard is umd based and using some scrolls and his own heals, the fighter is aggreveted because the ranger is running into the front before him and acting like a tank. And the oldies are aggreveted with the new guys because they aren't doing rhe job tthey want them to do. So thats a reason i want a bit more of a mmo system which i have decent mastery over and that all players are equal in both expirence and have a bit of a more clear cut role so that they are not clashing over who is doing what.

Flashy
2014-11-27, 02:57 PM
Anyway what i want to say is the party decided on roles in a sense with the group of five we have three new folks. The oldies are a bard and rogue and the new ones are a fighter being a tank, a cleric trying to be a healer and a ranger who wants to do damage with two weapon style. The issue is that the cleric is angry because the bard is being a better healer then him, because the bard is umd based and using some scrolls and his own heals, the fighter is aggreveted because the ranger is running into the front before him and acting like a tank. And the oldies are aggreveted with the new guys because they aren't doing rhe job tthey want them to do. So thats a reason i want a bit more of a mmo system which i have decent mastery over and that all players are equal in both expirence and have a bit of a more clear cut role so that they are not clashing over who is doing what.

There's not a lot you can really do about the healing thing, since a wand of cure wounds or a big bag of scrolls will ALWAYS be a better healer than any individual character using their healing class abilities. My only advice here would be to eliminate the non-class-ability healing options as much as possible. I know shadowrun doesn't provide much fast non-magical healing, but that's the only system that springs to mind where this wouldn't still be a problem.

The problem the fighter has, and will continue to have, is that tabletop games generally don't have a threat concept. The only thing that comes close is the 3.5 knight, with its knightly challenge abilities. Either homebrew a threat system, get the player to play a knight, or both.

It also sounds like part of the issue here is an OOC conflict about party roles. If I understood correctly the bard and the cleric both wanted to heal, and the bard expected the cleric to just do something else? The oldies don't just get to decide what everyone's job is, maybe talk to them about that.

Sartharina
2014-11-27, 03:19 PM
Path of War for Pathfinder really helps martial characters a lot.

DeadMech
2014-11-27, 11:56 PM
If I was going to run a game as if it were sword art online or log horizon. I would just play a normal rpg system and fluff it as characters being self aware and as mmo mechanics. Things aren't going to line up perfectly but then again... sword art online is a pretty terrible depiction of mmo mechanics anyway.

Others have pointed out that allot of levelling is a bad idea. I listened to them and I think I agree. Leveling during play stops everything and is an invitation for confusion. New players going to forget to update BAB or something. And unless you have a plan set out for progression ahead of time it means weighing all your options for feats or skills or whatnot.

Depending on what you are aiming for it might make sense to streamline a few things. If it doesn't make sense in the base mmo for diplomacy to be a game mechanic, then make talking roleplay instead of skill ranks. Maybe knowledge skills wouldn't make sense in an mmo, npc's warn players in town about the next boss's ability to turn people to stone, or maybe if it's a longer running game then online guides exist so experienced players will just know monster tactics and stats.

Knaight
2014-11-28, 01:32 AM
Others have pointed out that allot of levelling is a bad idea. I listened to them and I think I agree. Leveling during play stops everything and is an invitation for confusion. New players going to forget to update BAB or something. And unless you have a plan set out for progression ahead of time it means weighing all your options for feats or skills or whatnot.

This is only a problem for some systems (these specific ones clearly refer to D&D 3-5 and Pathfinder only). Frequent character advancement can easily be managed in some systems, and is actually a pretty good reason to bring in a percentile system. You've got individual skills which are changing, and because it's a percentile system they can change a little bit very often without it getting out of hand (a 43 and a 44 in a percentile system are basically the same, a 3 and a 4 in a d6 system are dramatically different).

All you really need to do is impose a level system on top of an existing percentile system in lieu of the existing advancement system. Pick a percentile skill system with a number of different skills, define a level as +2 to the main class skill and +1 to 3 other skills, and you've got plenty of levels. If you have several possibilities for a main class skill, it can easily get up to the hundreds.

Tvtyrant
2014-11-28, 02:40 AM
The monsters get insanely powerful as the party goes up in level making it hard to balance monster without intense playtesting them. I tpked the party on a cr11 monster as they were 13th level and I was only roll moderatly well as they were rolling average. This was with a group who have been playing for a year or so.


Huh. My experience is that monsters in 4E are actually on the weaker side, with lots of hit points but do little damage and get locked down easily. Part of the issue may be your party composition, as you really need a Leader, a Defender and a controller. Strikers are nice but not mandatory IMO.

Thrawn4
2014-11-28, 04:53 AM
The issue is that the cleric is angry because the bard is being a better healer then him, because the bard is umd based and using some scrolls and his own heals, the fighter is aggreveted because the ranger is running into the front before him and acting like a tank. And the oldies are aggreveted with the new guys because they aren't doing rhe job tthey want them to do. So thats a reason i want a bit more of a mmo system which i have decent mastery over and that all players are equal in both expirence and have a bit of a more clear cut role so that they are not clashing over who is doing what.
First of all, this sounds like an ooc problem, which is something you cannot solve with a different system. The way I read it, there are some players who are angry at other players because they do not behave the way some players expect them to.
Also, shouldn't the bard run out of items eventually?

Sartharina
2014-11-28, 10:17 AM
All you really need to do is impose a level system on top of an existing percentile system in lieu of the existing advancement system. Pick a percentile skill system with a number of different skills, define a level as +2 to the main class skill and +1 to 3 other skills, and you've got plenty of levels. If you have several possibilities for a main class skill, it can easily get up to the hundreds.

Except percentile systems are terrible for modelling the Treadmill that MMO's are built on, because your chance of failure starts huge and then decreases.

Star Wars Saga Edition probably has the most MMO-like leveling system I've seen. You just have to fix the scaling so that you don't have "Half Level", "Three Quarters Level" and "Full Level" all in the same system - pick one of those scaling tracks for the entire system, and add static modifiers to represent specialization. And have level be added to damage as well.

Thatwarforged
2014-11-28, 11:02 AM
@deadmech i wasent going to split levels in dnd though it had crossed my mind in the beginning. I was also not going to do SAO depiction but i was gonna adapt the idea of sword skills to the game so that the fighters and rogues have something to do other then basic attacks though it was gonna be in essence a class feature.

@knaight thats what i was thinking of doing just with some other systems mix.

@tvtyrant that might be the reason are party was seven folks as a warden, 2 rogues, sorcerer, a cleric, fighter and a ranger.

@thrawn4 the bard is pretty good at his money expenses and when to use his items or his own spells.

@sartharina thats not necessarily true since most percentile system run a GMs mercy or how easily its done adding bonus to rolls.

The other thing is i dont want to simply moddify a preexisting system but make a new one taking concept and neat mechanics and adding and making it as the systems own.

About the ooc i was hopeing that removing what he conflicting issue might allow me to find the real problem. Plus i like the concept of and TTMMORPG ie tabletop mmorpg kinda game. One of my favorite parts about 4e was you knew what exactly your character was in combat but i wanted to separate the skill system from the classes. I also wanted to remove the dependence on the intelligence and charisma ability scores so that they were force to talk and think and not go i make an int check and explain that his charact has an 18 int and he is not that smart so how can he think like said character.

Hiro Protagonest
2014-11-28, 02:47 PM
like what you see in Log horizon and SAO.

...So is it like what you see in Log Horizon or what you see in SAO?

A party of seven DPS specced warriors with one secondary healer beat the hardest raid in ALO. On the first try. The original SAO wasn't even designed around traditional roles, everyone was a warrior. I'm not sure where you're getting party roles from in SAO.

Log Horizon displays far more understanding of a traditional Everquest-style MMO.

Tvtyrant
2014-11-28, 02:51 PM
@tvtyrant that might be the reason are party was seven folks as a warden, 2 rogues, sorcerer, a cleric, fighter and a ranger.


That doesn't seem too bad. You had a leader, two defenders, and four strikers.

Nargrakhan
2014-11-28, 04:00 PM
...So is it like what you see in Log Horizon or what you see in SAO?

A party of seven DPS specced warriors with one secondary healer beat the hardest raid in ALO. On the first try. The original SAO wasn't even designed around traditional roles, everyone was a warrior. I'm not sure where you're getting party roles from in SAO.

Log Horizon displays far more understanding of a traditional Everquest-style MMO.

In the background fluff of SAO, the game system was supposed to be a world that didn't have straightforward casters in it. As Hiro points out, everyone was essentially a melee class of some sort. The closest you could get with a caster in SAO were the Beastmasters, as some tamable monsters had caster-like traits... but it was very simplistic effects (mostly healing or a breath attack).

Just as an FYI: Ragnarok Online was one of the most popular MMO's in Japan (basically what WoW was for the West), and a lot of light novels (and their anime counterparts) like SAO and Log Horizon steal a ton of their gaming mechanics from it. IMHO, more you know about Ragnarok Online, more those kind of anime make sense... but it's not really needed to enjoy them (since they spend time to break it down anyways).

***EDIT***
Now that I spend more time dwelling on it...

There is a Japanese pen-and-paper RPG called Arianrhod RPG (http://www.fear.co.jp/ari/index.htm) that was entirely designed to be an MMO (at least of the Korean-designed kind) for tabletop. Don't know if any material for it was ever translated into English though...

***EDIT 2***
Poking my nose around Google I saw that Tenra Bansho (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/111713/Tenra-Bansho-Zero-Heaven-and-Earth-Edition) was translated into English. It's a Japanese pen-and-paper RPG that's like feudal Japan with shinto sorcery, ninja magic, and technology (cyborgs, gynoids, laser swords, etc). You could read reviews for it and see if that floats your boat.

Faily
2014-11-29, 09:21 PM
Or... you could just use the MMO D&D Online, and roleplay through voice-chat as you run through quests together. Some of the storylines in the quest-chains there are actually pretty cool. I know there are even guilds on some of the servers there who focus on being roleplaying guilds.

You get the D&D, the MMO, and the roleplay, all from the comfyness of your own computer.

Thatwarforged
2014-11-29, 10:18 PM
I dont want to make a mmo dnd. I want to make my own system, i dont want to adapt dnd to a mmo like setring. For one that wouldn't work very well and for second im asking for so what might help me design it not what system i should adapt to a setting. The reason i dont just play ddo like that is that it would be just an mmo with a couple of us jerking about in a quest is just kinda strange. Third is that dnd is awesome and all but im personally a little tired of it and me and my group have been checking out new systems and the only other good one out there i found was the d6 system and its more broken then dnd 3.5 tome of battle. So i would like to hear about other systems but not really about dnd/pathfinder inless its about a great mechanics that might go well in the system. The group and i talked about the game system concept and they liked it i got the base laid out i just need to start working on specifics reason why i was asking about levels. At the moment the group thinks 60 levels is a nice solid number and we can change it after we start playing if it needs changing. So what i really need help with right now is what you guys like/hate about certain mechanics. For example i hate how wizards cast and forgot in essence in 3.5.

Vitruviansquid
2014-11-30, 12:50 AM
Wait... why can't you just play DnD, but say the setting in your MMO only has as many levels as the edition you're playing?

BWR
2014-11-30, 05:24 AM
I want to make my own system,

That is a helluva lot of work. If you want to do so, fine and I wish you good luck, but getting the complexity and variety of an MMO takes tons of work and will probably be more hassle than it's worth.


and the only other good one out there i found was the d6 system
What d6 system? There are several.


So i would like to hear about other systems but not really about dnd/pathfinder inless its about a great mechanics that might go well in the system. The group and i talked about the game system concept and they liked it i got the base laid out i just need to start working on specifics reason why i was asking about levels. At the moment the group thinks 60 levels is a nice solid number and we can change it after we start playing if it needs changing. So what i really need help with right now is what you guys like/hate about certain mechanics. For example i hate how wizards cast and forgot in essence in 3.5.


Frankly, this is hard for us to help you with. Unless you post actual suggestions about how you want the mechanics to work (and this should be done in the hombrew section) it's like saying "I want to make dinner. what sort of ingredients do you like? I was thinking something with meat." You will get too many too varied suggestions to be of much use.
We can recommend lots of systems but few will give you that MMO feeling.

Knaight
2014-11-30, 05:28 AM
Third is that dnd is awesome and all but im personally a little tired of it and me and my group have been checking out new systems and the only other good one out there i found was the d6 system and its more broken then dnd 3.5 tome of battle. So i would like to hear about other systems but not really about dnd/pathfinder inless its about a great mechanics that might go well in the system.

Clearly you need to look harder, there are plenty of good systems, and writing your own system when you're familiar with D&D and tangentially familiar with one other system is a mistake.

Thatwarforged
2014-11-30, 07:44 AM
Okay bwr ive done d6 adventures and space. Also currently im not working and my school is only twice a week for five hours each. So i have alot of free time. I also knew it would be alot of work reason why i wanted some information from the community but even if i give up on doing this thing the only people to be effected is my group and even then its not gonna disappoint them much and if it does they will most likely start helping. Also i will make a thread in homebrew later then with more information on it. Thanks for that wisdom, i dont usually post on forums just read em sometimes.

Knaight me and my group played d6, besm(tristat), demon hunter (cortex) and warhammer fantasy at least 3-4 times to get a decent feel for them. And i myself played dark heresy for 4 months with a freind every wensday. I do have more then dnd under my belt. If you dont think ive looked hard enough then please give me suggestions.

Thanks all for trying to help i will come on to here after compiling my information and posting it.

LibraryOgre
2014-11-30, 12:58 PM
Okay bwr ive done d6 adventures and space. Also currently im not working and my school is only twice a week for five hours each. So i have alot of free time. I also knew it would be alot of work reason why i wanted some information from the community but even if i give up on doing this thing the only people to be effected is my group and even then its not gonna disappoint them much and if it does they will most likely start helping. Also i will make a thread in homebrew later then with more information on it. Thanks for that wisdom, i dont usually post on forums just read em sometimes.

College is a fantastic time to make a new system. Good luck with it!


Knaight me and my group played d6, besm(tristat), demon hunter (cortex) and warhammer fantasy at least 3-4 times to get a decent feel for them. And i myself played dark heresy for 4 months with a freind every wensday. I do have more then dnd under my belt. If you dont think ive looked hard enough then please give me suggestions.

Thanks all for trying to help i will come on to here after compiling my information and posting it.

I think a lot is going to come down to what you want out of a system. I think for a system with constant levelling, you're going to want something more skill-driven than level-driven, since it allows constant, incremental, improvements, but that might get somewhat bookkeeping heavy.

I think it would be interesting, though a bit of PITA, to do something like d6, but have skills and attributes improve by use... say, set a threshold, and any difficulties above that threshold are added together, and once you achieve a certain amount of "XP" in a given skill, then it goes up by a pip, and then you start your XP over. Using WEG's D6, I might go with something like

Skill/Threshold/XP
1D/5/20
2D/10/40
3D/15/60
4D/20/80
...usw

So it would work out that 4 very hard checks (average of 5 or better on your D6s) would improve you by 1 pip. It would take 12 such checks to improve you by a die (4D->4D+1->4D+2->5D). You could achieve it faster by doing harder things, but those things would be VERY hard for someone of your skill.

Now, this would mean you reduce the awarding of Character Points (since mundane advancement is taken care of), but it also means that they and Fate/Force points play into advancing skills and abilities, since adding a +1, a die, or doubling the dice on important and difficult roles makes it more likely that you'll succeed. You can also include them as a "training system"... so the pip-increases from use happen automatically, but if you want to improve your blaster skill and haven't been taking enough really hard shots, you spend CP like normal.

GPuzzle
2014-11-30, 01:14 PM
Huh. My experience is that monsters in 4E are actually on the weaker side, with lots of hit points but do little damage and get locked down easily. Part of the issue may be your party composition, as you really need a Leader, a Defender and a controller. Strikers are nice but not mandatory IMO.

Nope, that's not how it is right now, at least not since MM3 and Monster's Vault. Monsters are much more dangerous but die faster, and the average 4e Party has a multi-attacking Striker, a Defender, an Enabling Leader, a Controller and either a Controlling Leader, a Healing Leader, a Controlling Striker or an Off-Tank.

Thatwarforged
2014-11-30, 01:39 PM
What i wantwd to do is seperate a character into "The player" being the main role playing entity ie the skill persausion would fall under "the player" category and "the character" which would be the main combat entity ie strength would be here. Makeing them completely separate in character creation and character advancement. So if the party spent the whole session trying to figure out a crime or convince a king to stop heavy taxes they would gain exp to "the player" but if they spent the whole session maiming a goblin tribe they would gain "the character"exp and obviously they will most likly gain a mixture of exp. I think this would help stop a feeling of we just murdered thousands of orcs and i learned how to talk better feeling. Also it means that all player are equal in a role play and combat. So i was gonna build in essence classes for both "entities". "He player" classes would be careers basicly.

LibraryOgre
2014-11-30, 01:47 PM
So, I tossed out a couple ideas on using d6 for something like this; I expanded a little bit on the above, and included some improvement on the D6 Blaster-proof wookie syndrome.

http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/2014/11/use-based-improvement-in-d6.html
http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/2014/11/d6-and-blaster-proof-wookie.html


What i wantwd to do is seperate a character into "The player" being the main role playing entity ie the skill persausion would fall under "the player" category and "the character" which would be the main combat entity ie strength would be here. Makeing them completely separate in character creation and character advancement. So if the party spent the whole session trying to figure out a crime or convince a king to stop heavy taxes they would gain exp to "the player" but if they spent the whole session maiming a goblin tribe they would gain "the character"exp and obviously they will most likly gain a mixture of exp. I think this would help stop a feeling of we just murdered thousands of orcs and i learned how to talk better feeling. Also it means that all player are equal in a role play and combat. So i was gonna build in essence classes for both "entities". "He player" classes would be careers basicly.

Huh... so they'd have a set of combat abilities and a set of RPing skills, and gain XP separately? I think that the suggestion I made above could work for that, with CPs serving as a general improvement pool.

Thatwarforged
2014-11-30, 02:25 PM
I was saying what my intentions were since you told me about that. I'm not sure if i will use the d6 system kinda thing im more think of using percentile as the main or only dice. I'm thinking about making damage of weapons and powers static except for bonus from the ability score and scaling from levels. I think that should help with speeding up combat also if i include the action bar idea that exgesis suggested. By the way if any of what I say seems confusing or you need a bit of more information just ask because what im saying makes since to me but im also the one saying it so.

Edit.
Yeah they would in essence have a set of combat abilities and role play abilities. I think this would off set how common pure combat builds there will be since all characters would be pure combat and pure role play.

LibraryOgre
2014-11-30, 02:58 PM
I was saying what my intentions were since you told me about that. I'm not sure if i will use the d6 system kinda thing im more think of using percentile as the main or only dice. I'm thinking about making damage of weapons and powers static except for bonus from the ability score and scaling from levels. I think that should help with speeding up combat also if i include the action bar idea that exgesis suggested. By the way if any of what I say seems confusing or you need a bit of more information just ask because what im saying makes since to me but im also the one saying it so.

Edit.
Yeah they would in essence have a set of combat abilities and role play abilities. I think this would off set how common pure combat builds there will be since all characters would be pure combat and pure role play.

There are some percentile-based systems out there that would make good examples. I would suggest you look at how Hackmaster works Opposed and Unopposed checks. Unopposed checks are simple "roll d% under your skill"; opposed checks are "roll d% and add your skill; beat the other guy's d%+skill".

The basic concept of my D6 used-based leveling can apply to %tile skills; it's pretty much based on a similar idea I had for Palladium's system, where use granted XP in a skill, and once you exceeded the %tile of your skill, you increased it by 1, and started over again. I'd go with a similar system, somewhat calibrated to how fast you want to improve. If you want inverse xp-gain to success level (i.e. the better you do succeed, the less XP you get), consider a "higher roll is better, lower roll gets XP" kind of system... so if you have a 50% skill, rolling 50% is GREAT, but rolling 1% means you get more XP towards improving the skill.

Thatwarforged
2014-11-30, 05:08 PM
Which one do you think works better with the use of a percentile rolling against your stats like in dark heresy or rolling and adding your stats like the d20 usually does?

LibraryOgre
2014-11-30, 05:54 PM
Which one do you think works better with the use of a percentile rolling against your stats like in dark heresy or rolling and adding your stats like the d20 usually does?

I'd vary it according to need. A simple check, roll d% under your skill; the attributes should modify the skill somehow, but can also be independent. An opposed check, roll d% and add your skill, higher total wins. It's easier to handle, and avoids some issues that crop up otherwise.

JusticeZero
2014-11-30, 07:16 PM
Your problem with players being annoyed at other characters for doing different things indicates that they haven't played enough MMOs. Some are very flexible in roles when the classes start taking different builds within the class itself. They may need to be reminded of this fact; class alone does not determine destiny.

Thatwarforged
2014-12-04, 03:43 PM
Okay so im using the ability scores strength, toughness, agility and spirit. Im not sure what other ones i should add, so can anyone give me any ideas? I really dont want intelligence and charisma simply because players tend to hide behind these instead of role play as much.

LibraryOgre
2014-12-04, 04:04 PM
Okay so im using the ability scores strength, toughness, agility and spirit. Im not sure what other ones i should add, so can anyone give me any ideas? I really dont want intelligence and charisma simply because players tend to hide behind these instead of role play as much.

You may or may not want to include speed and/or reflexes.

You may or may not want to include perception.

Thatwarforged
2014-12-04, 05:35 PM
You may or may not want to include speed and/or reflexes.

You may or may not want to include perception.

So im thinking then an alertness score but wouldent speed and reflex be within the range of agility?

LibraryOgre
2014-12-04, 09:35 PM
So im thinking then an alertness score but wouldent speed and reflex be within the range of agility?

If you want it to be, yeah.

Talakeal
2014-12-05, 12:17 AM
Which one do you think works better with the use of a percentile rolling against your stats like in dark heresy or rolling and adding your stats like the d20 usually does?

Mathematically percentage roll under and d20 add modifiers are identical. The only time it matters is when you have modifiers smaller than 5 percent, but generally these would be so insignificent they are unlikely to actually matter in play.

Personally when I created Heart of Darkness I started out dong percentile roll under, but switched to d20 plus modifier. I find it is much faster and more intuitive, particularly if you need to roll multiple dice at one. For example, if I have five mooks shooting at the PCs I can just grab 5d20 and roll them. That is much easier than finding 10d10, sorting them into pairs, and distinguishing the tens digit and the ones digit.

Sartharina
2014-12-05, 12:58 AM
You might want something like Arcana and Presence to replace Intelligence and Charisma.

Knaight
2014-12-05, 01:27 PM
Which one do you think works better with the use of a percentile rolling against your stats like in dark heresy or rolling and adding your stats like the d20 usually does?

I personally favor roll and add systems for the most part, largely from a usability perspective. Though I will include the caveat that adding the stats like in a d20 system is clumsy, as the use of both attributes and attribute modifiers is generally just a nuisance.

Thatwarforged
2014-12-05, 02:16 PM
You might want something like Arcana and Presence to replace Intelligence and Charisma.

The presence is just renaming charisma but i might still use it as the counter ti awareness. The arcana idea is brilliant i was fretting about casters in the game using a single stat were he warriors woulds need a mixture of all stats. I thank you for that it was really helpful.

So i was wondering how should i deal with crafting in the game. Should i make it a skill or subclass or what?