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Hzurr
2007-03-25, 11:19 AM
Hey,

I've been playing d&d for a while now, and am interested in looking into Shadow Run. Now, my information is a bit sketchy, but I want to say that the new 4th edition is d20, and the ones before it were a d6 system?

Since I'm familiar with the d20 system, would I be better off going with the latest edition, or are the old ones vastly superior?

Also, is there an online SRD?

In general, what are some opinions of Shadowrun, as opposed to d&d?

Douglas
2007-03-25, 11:32 AM
Shadowrun 4th edition is still d6.

Hzurr
2007-03-25, 11:47 AM
huh.

I gueses my information was sketchier than I thought.

Raum
2007-03-25, 11:53 AM
As Douglas mentioned, SR4 is still d6. It does seem to clean up some of the messier mechanics from earlier editions though.

As for comparing SR and D&D, it's usually a matter of personal taste. SR lends itself to mission oriented games better than D&D but D&D tends to do the epic games a bit easier. Most of that is simply due to setting differences. Mechanically, SR is a skill based / point buy system rather than D&D's level based system. Consequently, SR is generally grittier and more deadly. Don't misunderstand, D&D can be deadly, but in SR a "low level" guard can still kill a "high level" character.

I prefer SR mechanically but generally like the epic play of D&D better than SR's mission orientation. I've always wished they'd build a fantasy setting around SR mechanics...

Edit: There is no SRD for ShadowRun that I'm aware of...but I recommend the Dumpshock.com site.

Swordguy
2007-03-25, 12:09 PM
Hey,
've been playing d&d for a while now, and am interested in looking into Shadow Run. Now, my information is a bit sketchy, but I want to say that the new 4th edition is d20, and the ones before it were a d6 system?


The new edition is still d6, though it is different from previous editions in how it employs the d6.



Since I'm familiar with the d20 system, would I be better off going with the latest edition, or are the old ones vastly superior?


I would say to go with a combination of both. Get 3rd ed and a whole bunch of supplements, as it can be done for pretty cheap. Then get the 4th ed rulebook. The best thing about 4th ed is that deckers no longer have to sit around with a cyberdeck and tap into a marix line while the rest of the team goes and adventures. Instead, the Wireless Matrix debuts in 4th ed, allowing your deckers to go on the runs along with your other PCs (and not splitting the party).

3rd Ed has better support, more supplements, and (in the opinion of many) an overall better ruleset. Just cherrypick the cool stuff out of 4th and splat it into SR3.



Also, is there an online SRD?


Not to my knowledge, but there are these:

http://www.dumpshock.com/

http://archive.dumpshock.com/

Both of these are mineable for hundreds of good ideas and thing. The archive's columns section, especially, is a good read. The CLUE Files and Blackjack's corner are at the top of the list.



In general, what are some opinions of Shadowrun, as opposed to d&d?


Boy, they look kinda similar, don't they? You've got magic, and elves, and dragons. That kind of thinking...well...It's a trap!

SR can be run in one of two ways. They are mutually exclusive, and be sure your whole group is on the same page BEFORE character creation, or Bad Things can result.

1) SR the Way is was Meant to be Played: You are a special forces team. You get in and get out of your objective silently and professionally. The best run is the one in which you never had to use a gun, and onbody even knew you were there.

2) SR the Way it Tends to be Played: Why let all of these Big Guns and Kewl Cyber-Goodies go to waste? Let's find something and blow it into very, very small pieces!

Because of SR's inherent deadliness (less so in more modern editions, but still miles beyond D&D), you need to know which style of SR you'll be playing from the get-go. Typically, about 2/3rds of your PCs play #1, and the rest play #2. The guys playing #2 tends to get everyone else stricken with a very bad case of Dead when they start firing off miniguns and rocket launchers in the middle of a stealthy run through something like an Army Barracks. Magic is extremely nasty - a single Manaball spell can wipe out whole squads of humans, and really any other PC race - because it'll target Willpower - a stat that tends to be a dumpstat for anyone who's not a mage.

The real difference is the fact that SR had Wound Penalties to actions and initiative (although if you do like I do and don't bother with the init penalties for bookkeeping simplicity, it doesn't hurt the game much). Between that and the fact that you've got only 10+Body (1-6 for pretty much anyone) "hit points", any punk with a gun can be a significant threat if they get the drop on your PCs. It forces players to either play defensively (dive for cover when the shooting starts) or spend a lot of time rolling up new PCs. In D&D, you can stand there and take several hits before anything bad will happen to you, so you want to hit back as quickly and hard as you can (see also: Frenzied Berserker, pretty much any THW build). In SR, the more you get hit, the more your TNs to do anything go up. Combine that with the fact that you're generally safe from one gunshot (and thats it) and you've got a much more defensive-oriented game.

It's a pretty severe paradigm shift if you've got a bunch of D&Ders who decide to play SR. Either go easy on them (let them know that so they can correct D&D-style behavior over several sessions) or get used to doing a lot of TPKs.

The game's fun as all hell though. I much prefer it to D&D - it's just that with D&D as the lingua franca of gaming, it's the only thing I can ever get everyone to agree on. I would far, far prefer to be running SR. Give it a shot, and remember a few simple things:

1) Just cause an item or rule is in a book doesn't mean you have to allow it (Battletac Computers, Suppressive Fire Rules, Riggers in general).

2) Invest in d6s. LOTS of d6s.

3) Shoot Straight. Watch your back. And never, ever, cut a deal with a dragon.

Aerlock
2007-03-25, 12:29 PM
I have played 2nd and 3rd editions of Shadowrun and have enjoyed the heck out of it every time. I have the 4th edition book but have yet to play a game in it. I have however read the book extensively and can say that it is definitely not d20. Wizkids actually did an Aprils Fool's joke post on their site before the 4th edition came out saying it was going to be d20. The following day(I think) they had a post up saying how it was an Aprils Fool's joke and that they would never change over to d20. Apparently they got a lot of hate mail from people that didn't read through the whole thing. I read it before I looked at the date and by the time I got to about half-way through the post I knew it was a joke and that was when I realized it was April Fool's.

It is still pretty much the same mechanic thats been in Shadowrun all along. The way they hand;e target numbers has changed a bit. It's nowThe magic and decking systems have both been streamlined quite a bit to make them more consistent and balanced with the rest of the rules. In doing that the archetypal roles in Shadowrun have blended a bit.

Deckers and Riggers are now pretty much the same character with slightly different gear. Street Sam's can also do double duty as Deckers or Riggers once they have a bit extra cash for the appropriate gear. Doing so of course will make them less uber-melee combat monsters but does give them more options.

There's also the new Technomancer that is able to mentally control drones and hack the matrix with no cyberwear. This is an evolution of the Otaku from 3rd edition. They advantages when decking and rigging but they also take feedback harder.

The magical roles have blended slightly as well. There's no longer the hard and fast separation of Adepts, Shamans, and Mages. A magical character can have bits of all three.

The character build system has also changed. It is now straight up point buy. Everything from race to magical ability to the about of money you have at character creation is purchased with Build Points.

Hope that little quicky review helps you out.

Edit: Wow! double semi-simu-ninja'd. I think thats a personal record. when I started writing my response only douglas had replied. I guess I took too long in writing my post. I blame multi-tasking and getting distracted with a program not working correctly.

the_tick_rules
2007-03-25, 12:29 PM
yeah stack up on those d6's, you'll need piles.

Hzurr
2007-03-25, 01:02 PM
Boy, they look kinda similar, don't they? You've got magic, and elves, and dragons. That kind of thinking...well...It's a trap!

*sigh*

*chuckle*




However, thanks to all for your opinion. It definately sounds like something I want to try at least once...