Live forever as a human

[With a box]

There are some ways for living forever like nacropolitan and polymorph into :elan:, but there is a way to live forever "as Human"? His build can't work without human bonus feat.
And fluff reason
He want to live eternity, but he doesn't want to give up his 'humanity'

[Renen]

Reincarnation and wish?
(Arguably) wedded to history
That 9th level soul syphon spell... cant remember name
That magical painting artifact that makes you immortal (age) until it gets destroyed, at which time u age faaaaaast

[Ravens_cry]

Hmm, sure your DM won't let you take a flaw for a feat? Living forever is really not much of a game effect. I've only ever been in one campaign where it came close to mattering.

[ericgrau]

Dungeons and Dragons. The game where eternal life is worth less than a bonus feat.

[Doc_Maynot]

Here is a complete guide on just that topic. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5996)

[Jowgen]

There is a Immortality: A guide to Eternal Life on that other site that rhymes with ResiliantLameologists. It's pretty comprehensive and should have you covered :smallsmile:

[atemu1234]

I think Wedded to history would do this.

[With a box]

I'd looked the guide and a lot of it turn me something else..
I will just use kissed by the age anyway

[Ben Powers]

Cloud Anchorite (Frostburn) has this as a capstone, at the cost of being a monk... so probably not worth it...

[Ravens_cry]

Dungeons and Dragons. The game where eternal life is worth less than a bonus feat.
To be fair, most role playing games are like this,

[ace rooster]

The binding (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/binding.htm) spell does it explicitly, and in core. They also get the benefit of not needing to breath, eat or drink. Being stuck in a gem can be a problem, but is the extent of the restrictions the spell places on you, and if you can astral project or magic jar then it is barely even an inconvieniece. Finally, if you cast it yourself then you are free to dismiss it at any time, so you are not even really stuck.

I call it 'Lich light'. No feat cost, no major item expense, just have to be a wizard that didn't ban enchantment or necromancy (so actually quite rare).

Rereading your post, I'm not sure if possessing other creatures or duplicating yourself would really be thematic for somebody who is worried about losing their humanity. On the other hand it might be much easier to avoid losing your humanity this way.

Kata the necromancer: "I was worried I was losing my humanity, so I made this box to keep it in." :smalltongue:

[Ravens_cry]

There are some ways for living forever like nacropolitan and polymorph into :elan:, but there is a way to live forever "as Human"? His build can't work without human bonus feat.
And fluff reason
He want to live eternity, but he doesn't want to give up his 'humanity'

Well fluff reasons aside, is there any reason to think a Human Necropolitan wouldn't keep the Human feat?

[Inevitability]

If you stay on the Astral Plane forever, you won't age. A single Plane Shift will be your demise, though.

Or if you want to be somewhat more sophisticated, cast Genesis to create a Timeless (as the astral plane) Dead Magic plane and go sit there. You won't die except if someone Wishes for you to leave the plane. Then you can enjoy (nigh-)eternal life... except that living for eternity on a magic-less, barren plane may be more of a I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream thing.

[Urpriest]

Well fluff reasons aside, is there any reason to think a Human Necropolitan wouldn't keep the Human feat?

Yeah, they keep the feat, Necropolitan is a template, not a race. Still "loses their humanity" in the colloquial sense though.

[Kelb_Panthera]

My favorite is a simple necromancy spell. Steal life, sorc/wiz 8. You siphon the life out of a bound and helpless victim on the night of a full moon and gain a week of life for every ability point you drain from him. The average human is worth about 60 weeks. Eat a hobo once a year and live forever.

BoVD by the way.

[Ravens_cry]

Yeah, they keep the feat, Necropolitan is a template, not a race. Still "loses their humanity" in the colloquial sense though.
Just build a little bonfire in the middle of a dungeon if you're tired of being undead.:smalltongue:
Kidding aside and Dark Soul's references aside, you could make your character about keeping their humanity in the figurative sense in their new existence.

[Necroticplague]

I think there's a prc (theif of life?) that makes you not age for a year if you kill someone with a sneak attack. Given the average adventurer's daily quota of slaughter, this should effectively make you immortal.

[atemu1234]

I think there's a prc (theif of life?) that makes you not age for a year if you kill someone with a sneak attack. Given the average adventurer's daily quota of slaughter, this should effectively make you immortal.

Where? I must know!

[Renen]

Cant you just PaO yourself into a young body?
Cant you true mindswitch with another young human and change appearance if needed?
Or just use Ensul’s Soultheft to stop yourself from aging.

[Necroticplague]

Where? I must know!

Fath of eberron.

[Ravens_cry]

Where? I must know!
Faiths of Eberron, though it has some limitations. Still, killing at least 1 living creature (not some random hobo, it has to be equal or greater than your HD) is certainly doable in most campaigns.
EDIT: Semi thief of life-ed:smalltongue:

[SiuiS]

The binding (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/binding.htm) spell does it explicitly, and in core. They also get the benefit of not needing to breath, eat or drink. Being stuck in a gem can be a problem, but is the extent of the restrictions the spell places on you, and if you can astral project or magic jar then it is barely even an inconvieniece. Finally, if you cast it yourself then you are free to dismiss it at any time, so you are not even really stuck.

I call it 'Lich light'. No feat cost, no major item expense, just have to be a wizard that didn't ban enchantment or necromancy (so actually quite rare).

Rereading your post, I'm not sure if possessing other creatures or duplicating yourself would really be thematic for somebody who is worried about losing their humanity. On the other hand it might be much easier to avoid losing your humanity this way.

Kata the necromancer: "I was worried I was losing my humanity, so I made this box to keep it in." :smalltongue:

My necromancer did something like this. I really liked the feel of the Frank & K class, something like 'the man with the burning eyes', that gives you a functional permanent supernatural magic jar effect. DM vetoed that though, so I instead picked up the dragon magazine sculpt soul feat, that parts you turn yourself into a magic item of sorts, which I used to get the benefits of that class by getting a slowly advancing magic jar effect crossed with the red fang from Ravenloft module that alters how magic jar works.

So now I've got an immortal (of sorts) gourmand pastor theologian banker who's main interests are in keeping his humanity in a world of monsters and increasing the property value of the land he bought for cheap. Currently trying to open a set of hospitals for access to clone resources and the occasional still-fit braindead patient.

[Psyren]

True Mind Switch and/or Body Leech.

Generally, living forever does mean giving up your humanity (one way or another.)

[Rater202]

There are some ways for living forever like nacropolitan and polymorph into :elan:, but there is a way to live forever "as Human"? His build can't work without human bonus feat.
And fluff reason
He want to live eternity, but he doesn't want to give up his 'humanity'

Clone. Creates mindless, soulless duplicate body. When you die, your mind and soul are transplanted to the duplicate.

[SiuiS]

True Mind Switch and/or Body Leech.

Generally, living forever does mean giving up your humanity (one way or another.)

Being competitive past level twelve generally means losing your humanity. Most people are channeling the unbridled forces of the world or invoking gods and demons so frequently it's affected their soul permanently, diving into shadows and emerging out of other shadows, cleaving stone and steel with aplomb and shrugging off split arteries and dragon breath to shove a lance through the beastie's throat.

E: there are limits to clone: you go down to the level (and knowledge!) of what you had experienced when you clip the part off the original. It's good for making bodies to possess, not so great at eternity. You're better off getting focused reincarnation for that.

[Magma Armor0]

Dungeons and Dragons. The game where eternal life is worth less than a bonus feat.

I would sig this, if I weren't too lazy to do so.
Does changing your type remove aging? Saint template (from BOED) gives you the outsider type, if lichdom is "too evil" for you.

[Ravens_cry]

Clone. Creates mindless, soulless duplicate body. When you die, your mind and soul are transplanted to the duplicate.

Exactly, it's a duplicate. One could argue if you got the clone done as a young adult and it was preserved over those years, you'd come back as a young adult but even that only gets you to about 20 years less than twice your normal span. Nice, but no immortality.

[Renen]

Exactly, it's a duplicate. One could argue if you got the clone done as a young adult and it was preserved over those years, you'd come back as a young adult but even that only gets you to about 20 years less than twice your normal span. Nice, but no immortality.

Stasis clone. Preservation is built in.
and nothing is stopping you from infinite clones.

[SiuiS]

Exactly, it's a duplicate. One could argue if you got the clone done as a young adult and it was preserved over those years, you'd come back as a young adult but even that only gets you to about 20 years less than twice your normal span. Nice, but no immortality.

You can wake up as a clone, clip a toenail, make another clone, and do the exact same thing.

[Rater202]

E: there are limits to clone: you go down to the level (and knowledge!) of what you had experienced when you clip the part off the original. It's good for making bodies to possess, not so great at eternity. You're better off getting focused reincarnation for that.
SRD and RAW disagree with you. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/clone.htm)

Exactly, it's a duplicate. One could argue if you got the clone done as a young adult and it was preserved over those years, you'd come back as a young adult but even that only gets you to about 20 years less than twice your normal span. Nice, but no immortality.

The clone attempt only fails if you dies of natural causes. Nothing says you can't commit suicide once you get so old and them hop into a shiny new body, and if you have an accident or get murdered, well, you've got the clone already prepared. Depending on how you define natural cusses, that might only leave disease, but if you're an arcanist with the power and resources to cast clone enough times to have extra young adult bodies prepared, you can afford to buy or craft a magic item or something to protect you from those.

[Extra Anchovies]

Eat a hobo once a year and live forever.

This is beautiful. Thank you.


If you stay on the Astral Plane forever, you won't age. A single Plane Shift will be your demise, though.

Or if you want to be somewhat more sophisticated, cast Genesis to create a Timeless (as the astral plane) Dead Magic plane and go sit there. You won't die except if someone Wishes for you to leave the plane. Then you can enjoy (nigh-)eternal life... except that living for eternity on a magic-less, barren plane may be more of a I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream thing.

Would Planar Bubble solve that issue?

[atemu1234]

Ooh! Ooh! Have children and true mind switch with one of them!

[Petrocorus]

My favorite is a simple necromancy spell. Steal life, sorc/wiz 8. You siphon the life out of a bound and helpless victim on the night of a full moon and gain a week of life for every ability point you drain from him. The average human is worth about 60 weeks. Eat a hobo once a year and live forever.

BoVD by the way.

You don't even need to kill him. On scroll of restoration and you avoided to commit a murder.

[SiuiS]

SRD disagree with you. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/clone.htm)

And you as well, there is no mention whatsoever of the age of the body other than exact duplicate. By SRD, if you're 98, and you enter a clone you made when you were 20, you're still 98.

RAW however is a different issue. The player's handbook I use has different language and it's just as valid, so the rules as clearly written in my books and not placed online are totally on my side.

Plank in your eye, speck in mine, etc. :smallwink:

[AmberVael]

My favorite is a simple necromancy spell. Steal life, sorc/wiz 8. You siphon the life out of a bound and helpless victim on the night of a full moon and gain a week of life for every ability point you drain from him. The average human is worth about 60 weeks. Eat a hobo once a year and live forever.

BoVD by the way.

This is also my favorite, but rather than eating a hobo I like targeting myself with it. Eternal life through masochism! :smallamused:

[Rater202]

And you as well, there is no mention whatsoever of the age of the body other than exact duplicate. By SRD, if you're 98, and you enter a clone you made when you were 20, you're still 98.

RAW however is a different issue. The player's handbook I use has different language and it's just as valid, so the rules as clearly written in my books and not placed online are totally on my side.

Plank in your eye, speck in mine, etc. :smallwink:

Being a duplicate, the clone you made when you were 20 would be identical to you when you were 20, and being inert, the duplicate would not age to match.

[One Step Two]

And you as well, there is no mention whatsoever of the age of the body other than exact duplicate. By SRD, if you're 98, and you enter a clone you made when you were 20, you're still 98.

RAW however is a different issue. The player's handbook I use has different language and it's just as valid, so the rules as clearly written in my books and not placed online are totally on my side.

Plank in your eye, speck in mine, etc. :smallwink:

That said, the clone Spell specifies that you need to preserve the body you create.
A long term plan would involve using a Clone spell when you're still in your middle age category, and a sort of Temporal Stasis effect on the body itself to keep from aging with a trigger to dispel once your soul is inside it. When you reach old age or venerable, you kill yourself before time gets you, and you wake up young again, and you Clone your now younger body, and repeat the procedure.

Eternal Youth, as long as your lab remains intact.

[atemu1234]

That said, the clone Spell specifies that you need to preserve the body you create.
A long term plan would involve using a Clone spell when you're still in your middle age category, and a sort of Temporal Stasis effect on the body itself to keep from aging with a trigger to dispel once your soul is inside it. When you reach old age or venerable, you kill yourself before time gets you, and you wake up young again, and you Clone your now younger body, and repeat the procedure.

Eternal Youth, as long as your lab remains intact.

Do it while playing a LE Psion with a laser sword.

[SiuiS]

Being a duplicate,

The clone is specifically your duplicate when you come back. The "age you were when you made it" is 2e/3.0 inertia that's not actually supported by RAW. It no longer says duplicate of the body the clipping was from/identical to what the component was, it now just says you come back and the body is the same as the one you lost – which is magically 78 years older in our example.

I play it the old way, but be careful tossing around phrases like "RAW Disagrees" when you're not going through your own side with a fine toothed comb.

[One Step Two]

Do it while playing a LE Psion with a laser sword.

Heh, with that Psion, I believe it's completed using a contingent True Mind Switch to prevent the level loss.

[Emperor Tippy]

This is also my favorite, but rather than eating a hobo I like targeting myself with it. Eternal life through masochism! :smallamused:

Nice, never thought of that one.

[Renen]

The clone is specifically your duplicate when you come back. The "age you were when you made it" is 2e/3.0 inertia that's not actually supported by RAW. It no longer says duplicate of the body the clipping was from/identical to what the component was, it now just says you come back and the body is the same as the one you lost – which is magically 78 years older in our example.

I play it the old way, but be careful tossing around phrases like "RAW Disagrees" when you're not going through your own side with a fine toothed comb.

I would say this:
The wording is such that it always refers to the clone as a clone made of that piece of flesh. The piece of flesh is of "you when you were 20" for example.
When it talks about it being "physically identical with the original" it refers to the "original creature’s living body". More specifically the one the piece of flesh was taken from. And that is "you at the age of 20".

Though if thats not good enough just do this:
Make a clone
True Mindswitch with it (Using any shenanigans as needed)
Place your real body in quintessence after getting some "samples".

Your body is now forever a certain age, meanwhile you can just use the samples to grow clones.

[Necroticplague]

This is also my favorite, but rather than eating a hobo I like targeting myself with it. Eternal life through masochism! :smallamused:

Even better, dip binder for Neberius, and you could keep its up for hours without stopping (by the time you could cast it, the Concentration check would be trivial). Even if the full moon only counts the night, and only one full moon a month (both of which are lowballing it), you could reverse your age by 3600 weeks ( 68 and some odd years) in one night. Heck, it seems like the only hard part is finding the desecrated ground to perform this on. Well, and the fact the spell is evil, but that's a minor detail (since its literally the same amount of evil as humiliating an underling or spending an hour threatening someone).

[ericgrau]

I would say this:
The wording is such that it always refers to the clone as a clone made of that piece of flesh. The piece of flesh is of "you when you were 20" for example.
When it talks about it being "physically identical with the original" it refers to the "original creature’s living body". More specifically the one the piece of flesh was taken from. And that is "you at the age of 20".

Though if thats not good enough just do this:
Make a clone
True Mindswitch with it (Using any shenanigans as needed)
Place your real body in quintessence after getting some "samples".

Your body is now forever a certain age, meanwhile you can just use the samples to grow clones.
The mind is also duplicated. Does this mean you drop back down to the 20 year old's original level and memories?

[Extra Anchovies]

What about Psionic Sandwiching yourself, preferably into a form that won't get eaten? Maybe a construct body, so can still function normally.


Even better, dip binder for Neberius, and you could keep its up for hours without stopping (by the time you could cast it, the Concentration check would be trivial). Even if the full moon only counts the night, and only one full moon a month (both of which are lowballing it), you could reverse your age by 3600 weeks ( 68 and some odd years) in one night. Heck, it seems like the only hard part is finding the desecrated ground to perform this on. Well, and the fact the spell is evil, but that's a minor detail (since its literally the same amount of evil as humiliating an underling or spending an hour threatening someone).

Oooh, this is a good one.

[SiuiS]

Nice, never thought of that one.

Yeah, that's solid. The bound and helpless I always read as [Helpless], meaning you couldn't target yourself, but if you could...

Had a character focused on that. My third ever for 3e actually. I should ressurect the guy, he was neat. Maybe too teenaged though.


The mind is also duplicated. Does this mean you drop back down to the 20 year old's original level and memories?

It used to, yes. Quite explicitly. They did away with that when they decided it should be less flavorful and more a limited form of resurrection.

[RoboEmperor]

Create an epic spell with the transmutation and heal seed that turns you into your younger self with an instantaneous duration. You keep your own hit die, all mind related stuff, etc so essentially, you just have your strength and dex reverted, which is a good thing if you're a spellcaster.

[wickedragon]

There are some ways for living forever like nacropolitan and polymorph into :elan:, but there is a way to live forever "as Human"? His build can't work without human bonus feat.
And fluff reason
He want to live eternity, but he doesn't want to give up his 'humanity'

If you want to stay "good" my solution would be using "Living Dead" from Champions of Ruin.
Each "Living Dead" you create halves your aging, so with ten of them you age 8 hours and 33 minutes every year.

Not "infinity", but close enough. If you get 5 more Living dead you age 16 minutes every year (and 2.4 seconds).

To make it "good", create living dead from criminals that would otherwise be executed for their crimes. Allow them to serve in your castle as aids to your servants so that their existence has some meaning.

[Heliomance]

Epic Destinies (http://web.archive.org/web/20090218080723/http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20080428) all give immortality of some flavour as a capstone. That does require you to get to level 30, though.

[Milo v3]

Epic Destinies (http://web.archive.org/web/20090218080723/http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20080428) all give immortality of some flavour as a capstone. That does require you to get to level 30, though.

Well, it does have a variant at the bottom for non-epic play.

[atemu1234]

Create an epic spell with the transmutation and heal seed that turns you into your younger self with an instantaneous duration. You keep your own hit die, all mind related stuff, etc so essentially, you just have your strength and dex reverted, which is a good thing if you're a spellcaster.

No one uses Epic Spellcasting when munchkinning, it's like playing with the net down.

[AmberVael]

Even better, dip binder for Neberius, and you could keep its up for hours without stopping (by the time you could cast it, the Concentration check would be trivial). Even if the full moon only counts the night, and only one full moon a month (both of which are lowballing it), you could reverse your age by 3600 weeks ( 68 and some odd years) in one night. Heck, it seems like the only hard part is finding the desecrated ground to perform this on. Well, and the fact the spell is evil, but that's a minor detail (since its literally the same amount of evil as humiliating an underling or spending an hour threatening someone).

Naberius definitely does let you heal that drain fast (though note that he heals drain slower than damage), but speaking personally I'd rather lose a few spell slots or some of my wealth by level to negate the drain rather than spending a precious level on it, especially since that much age reversing is extremely unnecessary. All you need to do is cast this once per full moon and drain enough to regain five weeks to be fine forever- and that's not going to take much expenditure at all.


Yeah, that's solid. The bound and helpless I always read as [Helpless], meaning you couldn't target yourself, but if you could...

There is no 'bound and helpless' clause anywhere in the spell as far as I can see. The spell's target requirement is only "one living humanoid," which means not only could you target yourself with it, but you could easily just target other willing subjects and basically make it like blood donation.

In short, for all that Steal Life encourages being a mustache twirling villain who kidnaps people and drains them to nothing, it can be used very reasonably and ethically.

[atemu1234]

Naberius definitely does let you heal that drain fast, but speaking personally I'd rather lose a few spell slots or some of my wealth by level to negate the drain rather than spending a precious level on it, especially since that much age reversing is extremely unnecessary. All you need to do is cast this once per full moon and drain enough to regain five weeks to be fine forever- and that's not going to take much expenditure at all.



There is no 'bound and helpless' clause anywhere in the spell as far as I can see. The spell's target requirement is only "one living humanoid," which means not only could you target yourself with it, but you could easily just target other willing subjects and basically make it like blood donation.

In short, for all that Steal Life encourages being a mustache twirling villain who kidnaps people and drains them to nothing, it can be used very reasonably and ethically.

"Please sir, just sit down, I'll be with you in a moment. If you need anything, like coffee or a potion of restoration, just ask one of the succubus nurses."

[SiuiS]

Naberius definitely does let you heal that drain fast (though note that he heals drain slower than damage), but speaking personally I'd rather lose a few spell slots or some of my wealth by level to negate the drain rather than spending a precious level on it, especially since that much age reversing is extremely unnecessary. All you need to do is cast this once per full moon and drain enough to regain five weeks to be fine forever- and that's not going to take much expenditure at all.

Unless you're an elf or need to get back down to young really fast.



There is no 'bound and helpless' clause anywhere in the spell as far as I can see. The spell's target requirement is only "one living humanoid," which means not only could you target yourself with it, but you could easily just target other willing subjects and basically make it like blood donation.

Really? Because I remember something to that effect (can't check yet, gimme a few hours) and Kelb is usually pretty on the ball with his descriptions.


My favorite is a simple necromancy spell. Steal life, sorc/wiz 8. You siphon the life out of a bound and helpless victim on the night of a full moon and gain a week of life for every ability point you drain from him. The average human is worth about 60 weeks. Eat a hobo once a year and live forever.

BoVD by the way.


.

In short, for all that Steal Life encourages being a mustache twirling villain who kidnaps people and drains them to nothing, it can be used very reasonably and ethically.

Not really. From our level of abstractions it's "drain stat, reverse age", but it has the evil tag and requires almost sacrificial magic to dark powers. It's less like a blood donation and more like painfully siphoning the life from someone to reverse your aging using unholy magic.

[AmberVael]

Really? Because I remember something to that effect (can't check yet, gimme a few hours) and Kelb is usually pretty on the ball with his descriptions.
I've double checked the spell several times now, so... pretty sure, yeah.
Therefore, there's a 99% chance that I completely derped and missed part of the spell that specifies that.


Not really. From our level of abstractions it's "drain stat, reverse age", but it has the evil tag and requires almost sacrificial magic to dark powers. It's less like a blood donation and more like painfully siphoning the life from someone to reverse your aging using unholy magic.

Frankly I don't pay much attention to the evil tag. I've yet to find sufficient reason to do so, especially with such things as deathwatch being out there and zero explanation ever being given of why its evil.

Your description similarly throws out lots of phrases that sound bad without actually delving into actual ethics. Painful doesn't make it evil, so long as the person is willing to undergo it (which is what I was talking about- I'd find it entirely reasonable to undergo some short term pain in the name of increased longevity and quality of life). Its also not particularly sacrificial if no one dies, and if the smaller 'sacrifice' can be immediately recouped afterwards, then its not much of a sacrifice. Heck, in that respect its even better than something like plasma donation, because I can set things up to regain what I lost immediately.

As for unholy... well, if a DM gives me a good explanation as to why its unholy, then maybe I can take that into consideration. Until then? Seems pretty reasonable to me.

[Rubik]

True Mind Switch and/or Body Leech.

Generally, living forever does mean giving up your humanity (one way or another.)Nah. Timeless demiplane plus Astral Projection equals never having to say die.

[SiuiS]

I finally have a face for the niggling feeling that I'm short a few tomes – I can't find the book of bolded darkness. Hmm.

[Drakzelthor]

At very high levels using gate to call up a noble or royal time elemental (PF-Tome of Horrors complete) every couple of decades should get the job done. Just use its Alter age ability to bump your self down one age category.

[Kelb_Panthera]

The bound and helpless thing is in the descriptive text in BoVD entry for the spell. It's not necessary, however, merely a "This is how it's typically done" type thing.

I do think that it would be rather difficult to maintain concentration while you're draining away your abilities to fuel the spell though. I'm also not at all certain what happens when you've drained your int/cha to below 18 and are no longer capable of casting the spell in mid concentration.

[Ettina]

Clone. Creates mindless, soulless duplicate body. When you die, your mind and soul are transplanted to the duplicate.

"If the original creature has reached the end of its natural life span (that is, it has died of natural causes), any cloning attempt fails."

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/clone.htm

Can't be used to fix aging.

[Ettina]

Also, is there any way to get some god to make you immortal? Fluff-wise, it would be interesting to be some sort of cleric or paladin or something who pleased their god so much that they were given immortality as a reward.

[Urpriest]

Also, is there any way to get some god to make you immortal? Fluff-wise, it would be interesting to be some sort of cleric or paladin or something who pleased their god so much that they were given immortality as a reward.

They could make you a Proxy, but I think that's probably a higher power level than you're thinking.

[Rater202]

"If the original creature has reached the end of its natural life span (that is, it has died of natural causes), any cloning attempt fails."

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/clone.htm

Can't be used to fix aging.

Make a bajillion clones when you're 20. The clones are inert they don't age. Keep them in stasis or something till you need them. You get sick, or injured, or thinnk you're gonna die soon, you pull one out and commit suicide and hop into a shiny new body.

By RAW, Cloning Atempts fail only if you die of ole age-if you kill yourself to hop into a new body, you go back to being 20ish, and have 60 or so more years of living untill you're at risk of dying of old age again.

It's basically self ressurection.

SiuiS: I dug out my copy of the 3.5 Players Handbook, and it's listing of the Clone Spell Is Identical to the SRD-it doesn't say anything about you going back to the level you were when cloned, or you losing your memories. The closest thing it says is that you lose a Level or Con points as though you were brought back with a raise dead or Resurrection Spell, and that if you suffered permanent level loss, you instead go to a level below what you were at when you died, rather than the level by which you were cloned

[ace rooster]

Make a bajillion clones when you're 20. The clones are inert they don't age. Keep them in stasis or something till you need them. You get sick, or injured, or thinnk you're gonna die soon, you pull one out and commit suicide and hop into a shiny new body.

By RAW, Cloning Atempts fail only if you die of ole age-if you kill yourself to hop into a new body, you go back to being 20ish, and have 60 or so more years of living untill you're at risk of dying of old age again.

It's basically self ressurection.

SiuiS: I dug out my copy of the 3.5 Players Handbook, and it's listing of the Clone Spell Is Identical to the SRD-it doesn't say anything about you going back to the level you were when cloned, or you losing your memories. The closest thing it says is that you lose a Level or Con points as though you were brought back with a raise dead or Resurrection Spell, and that if you suffered permanent level loss, you instead go to a level below what you were at when you died, rather than the level by which you were cloned

The weak link in the method is bolded. While many DMs would rule that way, there is no guarentee that being inert prevents aging. Even if it does you are still not technically immortal, as you are eventually going to run out of clones and have to start the process again starting slightly older. You will still eventually die of old age. /nitpick :smalltongue:

[SiuiS]

Make a bajillion clones when you're 20. The clones are inert they don't age. Keep them in stasis or something till you need them. You get sick, or injured, or thinnk you're gonna die soon, you pull one out and commit suicide and hop into a shiny new body.

By RAW, Cloning Atempts fail only if you die of ole age-if you kill yourself to hop into a new body, you go back to being 20ish, and have 60 or so more years of living untill you're at risk of dying of old age again.

By raw, you're still the same age though.



SiuiS:

3.0 Rater. The old book having differences is in stuff like drowning, where it doesn't set your hp to 0, and once you start drowning there's no way to stop it.

[Arbane]

Is Pathfinder stuff allowed? Because PF Wizards can flat-out get Immortality (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/arcane-discoveries/arcane-discoveries-paizo/immortality) at level 20, and Alchemists can find the secret to Eternal Youth (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/discoveries/paizo---alchemist-grand-discoveri/eternal-youth).
There's also a few Oracle Mysteries whose Final Revelations (Gained at level 20) can make you immortal: Solar (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/mysteries/paizo---oracle-mysteries/solar-mystery) and Time (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/mysteries/paizo---oracle-mysteries/time), for example.

[With a box]

Is Pathfinder stuff allowed? Because PF Wizards can flat-out get Immortality (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/arcane-discoveries/arcane-discoveries-paizo/immortality) at level 20, and Alchemists can find the secret to Eternal Youth (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/discoveries/paizo---alchemist-grand-discoveri/eternal-youth).
There's also a few Oracle Mysteries whose Final Revelations (Gained at level 20) can make you immortal: Solar (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/mysteries/paizo---oracle-mysteries/solar-mystery) and Time (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/mysteries/paizo---oracle-mysteries/time), for example.

It's same as timeless body except it also remove prior physical ability penalties. and it doesn't stop you from dying from old age.

[Arbane]

It's same as timeless body except it also remove prior physical ability penalties. and it doesn't stop you from dying from old age.

The Time one specifically says you can't die of old age, and the others don't say one way or the other. (The Solar one says "At 20th level, yours becomes a journey without end.", but I know nobody here actually cares what the flavor text says when there's nitpicking to be done.)

And the wizard's one is named Immortality, not Leave a Good-Looking Corpse.

[With a box]

The Time one specifically says you can't die of old age, and the others don't say one way or the other. (The Solar one says "At 20th level, yours becomes a journey without end.", but I know nobody here actually cares what the flavor text says when there's nitpicking to be done.)

And the wizard's one is named Immortality, not Leave a Good-Looking Corpse.

SRD druid Timeless body says


Timeless Body (Ex)

After attaining 15th level, a druid no longer takes ability score penalties for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any penalties she may have already incurred, however, remain in place.

Bonuses still accrue, and the druid still dies of old age when her time is up.

SRD Monk Timeless body says

Timeless Body (Ex)

Upon attaining 17th level, a monk no longer takes penalties to her ability scores for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any such penalties that she has already taken, however, remain in place. Bonuses still accrue, and the monk still dies of old age when her time is up.

[Extra Anchovies]

SRD druid Timeless body says

SRD Monk Timeless body says

Indeed. Monk and druid don't get immortality (Monk of the Four Winds does, though, as does Reincarnationist Druid). Arbane is talking about Wizard, Alchemist, and Oracle, all of which do give immortality.

[Arbane]

Indeed. Monk and druid don't get immortality (Monk of the Four Winds does, though, as does Reincarnationist Druid). Arbane is talking about Wizard, Alchemist, and Oracle, all of which do give immortality.

Thank you.

I thought about mentioning the Reincarnated Druid, but the OP did specify "As a human", and that's a crapshoot when reincarnating. (I didn't mention the Witch's self-Forced Reincarnation trick for the same reason.)

[Graypairofsocks]

E: there are limits to clone: you go down to the level (and knowledge!) of what you had experienced when you clip the part off the original. It's good for making bodies to possess, not so great at eternity. You're better off getting focused reincarnation for that.

Thought Bottle can negate the level loss draw back, It actually explicitly mentions using it to negate the level loss from Raise Dead in its description(mentioning this part because, you know, thought bottle).

[SiuiS]

Thought Bottle can negate the level loss draw back, It actually explicitly mentions using it to negate the level loss from Raise Dead in its description(mentioning this part because, you know, thought bottle).

That's true! I generally forget about the thought bottle. That solves most issues.

[Jeff the Green]

Hmm. How hard would it be to get last breath as an SLA? I mean, a sharn/phaerimm with Extra Spell could do it, but finding one is a nightmare. Suicide an average of five times and you're in a new young adult body.

[YossarianLives]

Eat a hobo once a year and live forever.
Can I please sig that?

[Necroticplague]

Hmm. How hard would it be to get last breath as an SLA? I mean, a sharn/phaerimm with Extra Spell could do it, but finding one is a nightmare. Suicide an average of five times and you're in a new young adult body.
Well, you could try Spell-stitching an animated minion to give it a Last Breath SLA, I think.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Can I please sig that?

Sure

Ten character minimum.

[Jowgen]

Hey, I know the thread died down last week, but I stumbled accross something relevant.

Dragon 294 p. 77 has a prohibitly expensive item (326000 gp) called the Necklace of Soul Transference. If you somehow transfer your soul into the necklace (contingent soul-bind is an example), then you can try and take over the body of anyone who puts it own, destroying their soul. You keep your mental stats and class abilities, but take their physical stats and racial stats (minus SLAs) instead of your own. Downside is, they get a DC 23 Will save to resist and destory your soul, plus Protection From Evil blocks the posession.

If anyone happens to know any way to make someone auto-fail a will save, then this necklace can be an expensive but non-cheesy ticket to eternal life as any bog-standard race.

[sleepyphoenixx]

There's also the Amulet of Spirit Storing (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/MagicItems.pdf) which is pretty much a permanent Magic Jar spell. It's significantly cheaper and doesn't involve the risk of soul destruction.

[Jowgen]

There's also the Amulet of Spirit Storing (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/MagicItems.pdf) which is pretty much a permanent Magic Jar spell. It's significantly cheaper and doesn't involve the risk of soul destruction.

Please tell me you happen to know where that PDF is actually from? I figured it must be part of an article, but I've never found it; and thus have no context for the presented items :smallfrown:

That Amulet is certainly a lot cheaper, although also less permanent of a solution. The new body would have to continue wearing the amulet to keep it within range in the case of future death, and if the amulet ever breaks (e.g. sunder, natural one on a save followed by a failed save by the item) you are more or less dead... unless you posess something that's really hard to kill, like a vampire.

[SiuiS]

Hey, I know the thread died down last week, but I stumbled accross something relevant.

Dragon 294 p. 77 has a prohibitly expensive item (326000 gp) called the Necklace of Soul Transference. If you somehow transfer your soul into the necklace (contingent soul-bind is an example), then you can try and take over the body of anyone who puts it own, destroying their soul. You keep your mental stats and class abilities, but take their physical stats and racial stats (minus SLAs) instead of your own. Downside is, they get a DC 23 Will save to resist and destory your soul, plus Protection From Evil blocks the posession.

If anyone happens to know any way to make someone auto-fail a will save, then this necklace can be an expensive but non-cheesy ticket to eternal life as any bog-standard race.

Build your own and add a contingent effect so it triggers when the wearer is sleeping or unconscious.


Please tell me you happen to know where that PDF is actually from? I figured it must be part of an article, but I've never found it; and thus have no context for the presented items :smallfrown:

That Amulet is certainly a lot cheaper, although also less permanent of a solution. The new body would have to continue wearing the amulet to keep it within range in the case of future death, and if the amulet ever breaks (e.g. sunder, natural one on a save followed by a failed save by the item) you are more or less dead... unless you posess something that's really hard to kill, like a vampire.

It looks like it's from Dragonlance. The end of the PDF says Dragonlance: the fifth age. Have you gone through those books? The item certainly sounds familiar to me, and I had a friend who had the Dragonlance 3e stuff.

[Windrammer]

There are some ways for living forever like nacropolitan and polymorph into :elan:, but there is a way to live forever "as Human"? His build can't work without human bonus feat.
And fluff reason
He want to live eternity, but he doesn't want to give up his 'humanity'

Wedded to History feat, Endless feature, Dragon Magazine #354

Take it at first level and you just live forever. Unless you die. Know what I mean?

[Jowgen]

Build your own and add a contingent effect so it triggers when the wearer is sleeping or unconscious.


It looks like it's from Dragonlance. The end of the PDF says Dragonlance: the fifth age. Have you gone through those books? The item certainly sounds familiar to me, and I had a friend who had the Dragonlance 3e stuff.

Does unconciousness/sleep cause auto-fails of saves?

It might be Dragonlance, does dragonlance use the term "Enchant Arms and Armor"?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Does unconciousness/sleep cause auto-fails of saves?

No it doesn't. It's a common misinterpretation of the statement that unconscious creatures are always considered "willing" in regards to spells that require willing targets. You have to be "willing" to forgo a save but you don't have to forgo a save just because you're "willing."

[Extra Anchovies]

No it doesn't. It's a common misinterpretation of the statement that unconscious creatures are always considered "willing" in regards to spells that require willing targets. You have to be "willing" to forgo a save but you don't have to forgo a save just because you're "willing."

I think there's still a penalty, but I can't recall any specific rules text.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I think there's still a penalty, but I can't recall any specific rules text.

Perhaps you're thinking of the fact that an unconscious character makes a reflex save as though his dex were 0, changing whatever bonus he would normally be entitled to into a -5?

[SiuiS]

No it doesn't. It's a common misinterpretation of the statement that unconscious creatures are always considered "willing" in regards to spells that require willing targets. You have to be "willing" to forgo a save but you don't have to forgo a save just because you're "willing."

You're the second person other than myself to ever say that. Everyone else I've ever heard talk about it goes with "you automatically agree and forsake your save.

I had quite the cut-up about it once when a DM decided the best way to get party cohesion was to have his best friend'a PC mindrape everyone in their sleep, especially the ones who didn't need to sleep and had constant extraordinary mind blanks active. Wish I had this argument back then.

[Kelb_Panthera]

You're the second person other than myself to ever say that. Everyone else I've ever heard talk about it goes with "you automatically agree and forsake your save.

I had quite the cut-up about it once when a DM decided the best way to get party cohesion was to have his best friend'a PC mindrape everyone in their sleep, especially the ones who didn't need to sleep and had constant extraordinary mind blanks active. Wish I had this argument back then.

Third, actually. Someone else on this forum pointed it out to me a while back. I used to be just as guilty as anyone of that particular mistake. Then it was pointed out that dream and nightmare are spells that exist and how the heck are you supposed to save against them if you automatically fail saves when you're asleep.

[SiuiS]

Third, actually. Someone else on this forum pointed it out to me a while back. I used to be just as guilty as anyone of that particular mistake. Then it was pointed out that dream and nightmare are spells that exist and how the heck are you supposed to save against them if you automatically fail saves when you're asleep.

Ah. Second I've seen, pardon.

I would assume "bad writing" myself.

[Barbarian Horde]

Clone and move his soul into clone? Repeat every few years. You live forever. Not invincible

[Jowgen]

Can a character be mind-controlled into forgoing a save? A well worded suggestion or a simple dominate might suffice to get someone to "relax, put this on, and then just let whatever happens happen.". Actually, a sufficiently good Bluff that putting the necklace on will grant them some cool benefit if they just let its effect run its course might just be enough in this scenario. Although you'd probably need someone else to convince them off this, since you'll be in a tiny little stone.

[Devils_Advocate]

Kata the necromancer: "I was worried I was losing my humanity, so I made this box to keep it in."
I could totally see this as flavor text on a Magic: The Gathering card; and, if so used, I dare say it would be one of the best examples of such.

10/10. (Wait, ten power, ten toughness?! That means that the mana cost on this has got to be impractically high...)