DM Help Foraging Potion Ingredients/Alchemy Mini-Game Idea [Archive]

Freelance GM

2014-11-27, 08:11 PM

So, Herbalism/Alchemy stuff. You can buy stuff like Antitoxin or Healing Potions at half-price, to represent your character buying the ingredients and making it on their own during Downtime.

One of my players took issue with this- asking, "I'm a Level 10 Druid. Can't I just go out and find the ingredients?"

Guy's got a point. Especially in the part of my campaign setting they were in at the time, there's no reason why he shouldn't be able to find the ingredients on his own- which is why I want to try homebrewing some kind of Resource collection subsystem.

Imagining some kind of resource collection system fitting into 5E seems easy enough- this lends itself to something players can do during Downtime, or while traveling at a slow pace through the wilderness. Rangers would be better at it in their Favored Terrains. The player would make a Survival check, and a success (DC varies by terrain) would get a roll on some kind of "Local Flora" chart.

Naturally, there needs to be enough drawbacks to make it worth, well, 25 gold pieces, since the whole process is meant as a way to bypass having to pay any money at all for crafting potions.

A few drawbacks are built in to the idea I pitched above:

The system is situational- some ingredients won't be available in certain regions- and finding the right ones is luck-based.
The system requires spending more Downtime than crafting the items normally.
If done during a journey, the party must move at a slow pace.
Maybe foraging for resources increases the chances of a Random Encounter?

Are these enough drawbacks?

Some other things to consider are that if players are gathering ingredients, that kicks down the door on a whole dungeon full of possibilities. Crafting ingredients and advanced recipes can be used as treasure or loot. Alchemical items and Poisons could also be made using this system. Certain combinations of ingredients can make more effective (or less effective) concoctions. (Less effective versions would be relevant when the region you're in doesn't have the right materials for a normal or better recipe.)

In theory, collecting resources only slows down the game by two die-rolls (a survival check, and a random chart roll). It's not terribly complex, unless the list of ingredients gets too long, or the recipes get too convoluted.

If you wanted, recipes could be tracked like a Wizard's Spellbook- a Herbalism Kit includes the Potion of Healing and Antitoxin recipes, Alchemist's Tools include Acid and Alchemist's Fire, and Poisoner's Kit includes well, the basic PHB Poison. Unlike a Spellbook, GP would not have to be spent to transfer a recipe, but the only way to learn new ones is actual, in-game trial and error with the ingredients you've collected, or buying them from NPC's. There might be a feat that would allow you to learn a few extra recipes.

With the proper, incredibly rare ingredients, it could be possible to craft magical potions in this way, too. But I'll hold off on any rules for that until I get a copy of the DMG. Which, in all likelihood, already has a much easier system for doing this.

What do you all think?

bloodshed343

2014-11-27, 08:21 PM

Freelance GM

2014-11-27, 08:42 PM

I think it should use perception or survival.

I don't know offhand if 5e has anything like 4e's bloom, but I think a druid could magically farm a plant once they find it.

You need to make a lot of mineral ingredients to get around this. Of course, there's nothing stopping the druid from farming rare flowers for money. There's also no non-arbitrary way to rule against this.

I chose Survival because that skill has more to do with actually understanding which plants are which, while Perception would be more like, "Oh, that matches the description the Ranger gave me!"

Bloom's not in 5E, but the Level 3 spell Plant Growth could be problematic for the same reason. I like the mineral component idea. It's possible monster components could be a thing, too- but those wouldn't be harvest-able without finding and killing the monster.

Plant Growth would double the amount of resources you can harvest from a half-mile area, if you spend 8 hours casting it. Seems fair enough to allow until testing proves otherwise. Besides, the spell was made for doing stuff like this.
DM Fiat can say that the other use- immediately suffocating everywhere in a 100-foot radius with plants to block movement- causes the quality of the ingredients to plummet sharply from the sudden, violent growth. Or something.

Also, on the topic of spells, Locate Animals and Plants suddenly becomes extremely relevant, if this subsystem is in play. Which is fine- because I don't think I've ever seen a player use that spell before.

Ziegander

2014-11-28, 03:14 PM

I'm planning on writing my own setting with a TON of rules based on foraging and salvaging from flora and fauna, so I fully agree with and support the notion that D&D has long needed this, and 5e seems both especially needful and well set-up for it. :smallbiggrin:

Freelance GM

2014-11-30, 08:28 PM

Ok, I have something testable.

There are six types of "essences" that can be pulled out of various materials- Fire, Water, Earth, Air, Positive Energy, or Negative Energy. (These might get more creative, alchemical-sounding names later, like Fulgur, but that makes it harder to remember which is what.) Ingredients use the same degrees of rarity as Magic items: common, uncommon, rare, very rare, and legendary. The rarity of an ingredient increases its effectiveness.

Those are the only two values you need to keep track of: its Essence type, and its rarity. For every degree of rarity above Common an ingredient is, it counts as one additional ingredient. For example, a Rare Fire ingredient would count as three Common Fire ingredients. As a result, using rarer ingredients is more efficient when a character is making more advanced potions.

What are the ingredients? Well, technically, with 6 types of Essence, and 5 degrees of Rarity, there are 30 possible combinations. However, in my opinion, even as many as 30 ingredients are not enough to capture the opportunities for flavor, so I'd encourage DM's to improvise ingredients as they are found. For example, a Black Dragon Tongue could be a Very Rare Earth ingredient. However, an incredibly rare flower that grows in the Underdark could also be a Very Rare Earth ingredient. They are mechanically identical, but the flavor- and the means of acquiring them- are different.

True to classic alchemy, I'm seeing ingredients as being more about associations with elements than literal relation. Herbs that can be used to heal have Positive Essence, but so could blood. Toxic substances could have Negative Essence, but something with Fire Essence isn't necessarily flammable- maybe it just tastes spicy. An ingredient with Earth Essence could be a crushed gemstone, but it could just as easily be a sour fruit or a subterranean mushroom.

Rarer ingredients can be increasingly exotic or bizarre, like the petals of a flower that only blossoms once every hundred years, or the eye of someone who has been petrified by a Medusa.

Example Ingredients:
Athelas, Common Positive Ingredient.
Orc Pepper, Uncommon Fire Ingredient.
Wyvern Stinger Venom, Rare Negative Ingredient.
Black Dragon Tongue, Very Rare Earth Ingredient.
Goddess's Tear, Legendary Water Ingredient.

Each potion, poison, and alchemical item in the game has a Recipe- a specific combination of Essence required to create the desired substance. Recipes are kept in a Recipe book. When a character buys Alchemist's Suppies, Herbalism kits, or Poisoner's Kits, it includes a Recipe book with the following recipes included:

Alchemist's Supplies: Acid, Alchemist's Fire

Herbalism Kit: Antitoxin, Potion of Healing

Poisoner's Kit: Basic Poison

At your DM's discretion, you may buy new Recipies from select NPCs. The price is an amount of gold equal to 10 x the potion's rarity. Otherwise, the character can attempt to craft potions through trial-and-error during Downtime. Intelligence checks to craft a potion without a recipe have disadvantage. If the player accidentally guesses a valid Recipe, and succeeds on this check, they may add the Recipe to their Recipe book. Otherwise, the ingredients used in the experiment are wasted.

Crafting a Potion requires an Intelligence check; characters may also add their Proficiency bonus at the DM's discretion. As a general rule, characters proficient with Alchemist's Suppies, Herbalism kits, or Poisoner's Kits can add their Proficiency bonus to checks when they are making potions relevant to their field. In unusual circumstance- like a herbalist creating a poison- the character only adds half of their Proficiency bonus.

The DC to craft a potion, alchemical substance, or poison out of foraged ingredients is equal to...
10 + (Desired potion's rarity x2) + (Total number of ingredients used).

Desired Potion's Rarity x2: Common potions add +2 to the DC, while a Legendary potion adds +10.

Number of Ingredients Used: Using rarer, more potent ingredients is more efficient, and makes crafting a potion easier. Conversely, trying to make a Legendary potion out of many common ingredients is more difficult. The DC to craft the potion increases by 1 for every ingredient used to create the potion.

A successful check creates the desired potion. On a failed result, no potion is created, and the ingredients used are wasted.

Potion of Healing: Positive + Positive. A Potion of Healing is Common, so crafting this out of two Common Positive ingredients would be DC14 (10+2+2), while using a single Uncommon ingredient would be DC13 (10+2+1).

Potion of Fire Breath: Air + Fire + Fire. This potion is Uncommon, so it would be at least DC 16 to craft, if you used an Uncommon air ingredient and a common fire ingredient.

Potion of Invisibility: Air + Air + Air + Earth + Water. Notice that rarer potions require more ingredients. A very rare potion of Invisibility would be at least DC21 to craft, or DC23 if you only use common ingredients.

Potion of Storm Giant Strength: Air + Air + Earth +Earth + Water + Water. This is the only Legendary potion in the DMG, and therefore the hardest to craft out of foraged ingredients. Using the minimum amount of ingredients, it would still be DC23.

Alright, that's what I got. Nice and organized, so you aren't blinded by a wall of text.

What do you think? Is it simple enough to prevent slowing the game down? Is it complex enough to satisfy your cravings?

I'm still working on recipes for every Potion, Poison, and Alchemical substance in the PHB and DMG. I'll post them when I'm done.

flyenemu

2014-12-01, 12:36 PM

My group had been brainstorming on how to work with creating such items, and I like where your going with it. I'll take a closer look at the mechanics once my party gets underway.

MadGrady

2014-12-01, 03:09 PM

I definitely like the direction you are going. Having a chart to roll against keeps the randomness of the "I went looking, but I only found a bunch of ****" aspect of actually hunting for ingrediants, while allowing for the possibility of finding things quickly depending on die rolls.

I also agree with your choice for survival as skill of choice, it made most sense to me as well. Perhaps you could flesh out your chart to have the more "Key" ingrediants as the higher numbers, and your more mundane garbage materials be lower on the chart, that way survival proficiency can add to the roll made - helps to emphasize a player building up that particular skill. Basically giving them better odds of finding materials.

My only concern with this would be to either make multiple charts depending on terrain and recipes (you'ld want different charts to roll against with different ingrediants on them) or make one single generic chart.

Another option is to say that if they have prof in survival - they can roll vs the chart with advantage, and take whichever roll they want.

MadGrady

2014-12-01, 03:13 PM

Alright, I hadn't seen the post about "essences" before I posted last. Now I'm torn - that is a very intriguing method of going about this, and I like the ability for a DM to make an ingrediant up on the spot if needed.

Hmmmmmmm

Freelance GM

2014-12-01, 03:59 PM

Got the recipes. I arbitrarily chose rarities for the poisons based on their price. If you're wondering how I came up with the recipe combinations, it basically boiled down to loose association.

For example, with Dust of Dryness: It's Uncommon, so it needs 3 ingredients. It's dust, so Earth and Air need to be in there. It evaporates Water. Fire is Water's opposite. Add Fire to the recipe. Resulting recipe: Air + Earth + Fire.

I didn't exactly proofread this- it all kind of runs together when you look at it, so please let me know if you stumble upon any duplicate recipes.

If you're curious, math suggests that there are 28 possible Uncommon recipes, 108 Rare recipes, 243 Very Rare recipes, and 461 Legendary recipes I haven't used yet, so there's plenty of room left for homebrewing stuff. (Is that a pun? I think it's a pun.)

The next thing I'm going to work on are some sample "Ingredients by terrain" charts. Should be fun.

Animal Friendship: Uncommon, Earth + Earth + Positive

Clairvoyance: Rare, Air + Air + Water + Water

Climbing: Common, Earth + Earth

Diminution: Rare, Earth + Earth + Negative + Water

Elixir of Health: Rare, Earth + Positive + Positive + Water

Fire Breath: Uncommon, Air + Fire + Fire

Flying: Very Rare, Air + Air + Air + Air + Air

Gaseous Form: Rare, Air + Air + Air + Water

Hill Giant Strength: Uncommon, Earth + Earth + Earth

Frost/Stone Giant Strength: Rare, Earth + Earth + Earth + Water or Earth

Fire Giant Strength: Rare, Earth + Earth + Earth + Fire

Cloud Giant Strength: Very Rare, Earth + Earth + Earth +Earth + Air

Storm Giant Strength: Legendary, Earth + Earth + Earth + Air + Air + Water

Growth: Uncommon, Earth + Positive + Water

Healing: Common, Positive + Positive

Greater Healing: Uncommon, Positive + Positive + Positive

Superior Healing: Rare, Positive + Positive + Positive + Positive

Supreme Healing: Very Rare, Positive + Positive + Positive + Positive + Positive

Heroism: Rare, Positive + Positive + Air + Water

Invisibility: Very Rare, Air + Air + Air + Earth + Water

Invulnerability: Rare, Earth + Earth + Positive + Positive

Longevity: Very Rare, Earth + Earth + Positive + Positive + Water

Mind-Reading: Rare, Air + Negative + Water + Water

Philter of Love: Uncommon, Fire + Positive + Water

Poison: Uncommon, Negative + Negative + Water

Acid Resistance: Uncommon, Earth + Water + Positive

Cold Resistance: Uncommon, Positive + Water + Water

Fire Resistance: Uncommon, Fire + Fire + Positive

Force Resistance: Uncommon, Air + Positive + Water

Lightning Resistance: Uncommon, Air + Fire + Positive

Necrotic Resistance: Uncommon, Positive + Negative + Negative

Poison Resistance: Uncommon Positive + Earth + Negative

Psychic Resistance: Uncommon, Positive + Negative + Water

Radiant Resistance: Uncommon, Fire + Positive + Positive

Thunder Resistance: Uncommon, Air + Air + Positive

Speed: Very Rare, Air + Air + Earth + Earth + Water

Vitality: Very Rare, Earth + Positive + Positive + Water + Water

Water-Breathing: Uncommon, Air + Water + Water

Assassin's Blood: Uncommon, Earth + Negative + Negative

Burnt Onthur Fumes: Rare, Earth + Fire + Negative + Negative

Carrion Crawler Mucus: Uncommon, Earth + Earth + Negative

Drow Poison: Uncommon, Earth + Negative + Water

Essence of Ether: Rare, Earth + Negative + Water + Water

Malice: Uncommon, Negative + Negative + Negative

Midnight Tears: Very Rare, Negative + Negative + Negative + Negative + Negative

Oil of Taggit: Rare, Earth + Earth + Fire + Negative

Pale Tincture: Uncommon, Air + Negative + Negative

Purple Wurm Poison: Legendary, Earth + Earth + Earth + Negative + Negative + Negative

Serpent Venom: Uncommon, Earth + Earth + Water

Torpor: Rare, Earth + Air + Negative + Negative

Truth Serum: Uncommon, Air + Positive + Negative

Wyvern Poison: Very Rare, Air + Air + Earth + Negative + Negative

Acid: Common, Earth + Water

Alchemist's Fire: Common, Air + Fire

Bomb: Rarity varies by DM and setting. In mine, Very Rare, Fire + Fire + Fire + Earth + Earth

Dust of Disappearance: Uncommon, Air + Air + Earth

Dust of Dryness: Uncommon, Air + Earth + Fire

Dust of Sneezing and Choking: Uncommon, Air + Earth + Negative

Gunpowder (1 Horn): Rarity varies by DM and setting. In mine, Rare, Earth + Earth + Fire + Fire

Oil of Etherealness: Rare, Air + Air + Air + Air

Oil of Sharpness: Rare, Earth + Earth + Water + Water

Oil of Slipperiness: Rare, Air + Water + Water + Water

Sovereign Glue: Legendary, Earth + Earth + Earth + Water + Water + Water

Universal Solvent: Legendary, Water + Water + Water + Water + Water + Water

Freelance GM

2014-12-01, 04:33 PM

I definitely like the direction you are going. Having a chart to roll against keeps the randomness of the "I went looking, but I only found a bunch of ****" aspect of actually hunting for ingrediants, while allowing for the possibility of finding things quickly depending on die rolls.

I also agree with your choice for survival as skill of choice, it made most sense to me as well. Perhaps you could flesh out your chart to have the more "Key" ingrediants as the higher numbers, and your more mundane garbage materials be lower on the chart, that way survival proficiency can add to the roll made - helps to emphasize a player building up that particular skill. Basically giving them better odds of finding materials.

Thanks for the advice! The fact that multiple people have said they "like the direction I am going" is a good sign, IMO. Glad to have dragged another one of you down the rabbit hole with me.

MadGrady

2014-12-01, 04:46 PM

Thanks for the advice! The fact that multiple people have said they "like the direction I am going" is a good sign, IMO. Glad to have dragged another one of you down the rabbit hole with me.

I was already in the rabbit hole to begin with :smallbiggrin:

I much prefer discussions of this nature vs the "this build is better than this build" discussions.

Less......shall we say......confrontational

Safety Sword

2014-12-01, 06:35 PM

I too like what you guys have done here. Great stuff.

What are your thoughts on reverse engineering potions to gain the materials. Would you allow it?

Example:
Potion of Healing: Positive + Positive. A Potion of Healing is Common, so crafting this out of two Common Positive ingredients would be DC14 (10+2+2), while using a single Uncommon ingredient would be DC13 (10+2+1).

I would assume that there is some sort of loss when you break the potion down. Perhaps you only get one of your positive essences back (or a random number of a random smattering of the initial ingredients).

EDIT: On the potion recipes: Should Fire Resistance Potion not have Water as the main ingredient as it opposes fire?

Beleriphon

2014-12-02, 09:37 AM

Freelance GM

2014-12-02, 09:59 AM

I too like what you guys have done here. Great stuff.

What are your thoughts on reverse engineering potions to gain the materials. Would you allow it?

I would assume that there is some sort of loss when you break the potion down. Perhaps you only get one of your positive essences back (or a random number of a random smattering of the initial ingredients).

EDIT: On the potion recipes: Should Fire Resistance Potion not have Water as the main ingredient as it opposes fire?

Eh... I'm not sure that I'd let my players break down potions. However, I'm one of those people who like options over choices, so there should be an optional rule for DM's who'd like that option.

I like your idea of handling it through a single "extraction" check. I feel like the DC for breaking down a potion should be higher than crafting it... Perhaps the Crafting DC+5? The player can choose one type of Essence within the potion and get half of it back, rounded up. So, you could still break down something like Alchemist's Fire (Fire + Air) and get something out of it.

Great, now my opinion's changing about allowing it- maybe I will allow it in my games. Breaking down potions you don't need could be a good way to get ingredients that aren't available in the region your character's currently in.

I chose Fire over Water for the potion of Fire Resistance recipe because of the way I imagined the potion working. Ultimately, it depends on the DM's headcanon on how the potions work. In my mind, the Potion of Fire Resistance is some kind of hot orange liquid that's practically boiling. Drinking it magically increases your tolerance for heat.

However, it could just as easily be a thick fluid with condensation gathering on the bottle. It's ice-cold and refreshing, and magically increases your tolerance for heat.

I didn't check to see if these clash with any other recipes, but here's some "opposite recipe" potions of Resistance.

Acid Resistance: Uncommon, Water + Water + Positive

Cold Resistance: Uncommon, Fire + Fire + Positive

Fire Resistance: Uncommon, Positive + Water + Water

Force Resistance: Uncommon, Air + Positive + Water

Lightning Resistance: Uncommon, Earth + Earth + Positive

Necrotic Resistance: Uncommon, Positive + Positive + Negative

Poison Resistance: Uncommon Positive + Earth + Water

Psychic Resistance: Uncommon, Positive + Negative + Water

Radiant Resistance: Uncommon, Positive + Positive + Water

Thunder Resistance: Uncommon, Earth + Negative + Positive

Freelance GM

2014-12-02, 10:26 AM

So you're cribbing the alchemy system from The Witcher? Because this is essentially how it works in that game. Everything single collectible resource for alchemy has at least one essence that can be used in different combinations to craft potions.

I thought I mentioned the Witcher II in one of the posts- looking back, it looks like I didn't, so I guess it's debatable plagiarism.
:smalleek:

I should fix that.

If you're curious, this is a summary of the process I used for brainstorming the system, as well as a comparison.

When I was thinking of how to make an alchemy system for 5E, I started looking at how games I had played handled it. I decided on the Elemental + Positive/Negative Energy association early on, as well as ingredients having Rarity like Magic items. That would have given me 30 possible ingredients.

The next step was actually deciding what those ingredients were. I actually started with Skyrim and Dragon Age, and seeing what kind of resources their systems used, but I decided that the "essence" categorization of the Witcher and the Witcher II would allow DM's the freedom to create their own ingredients, instead of being tied down to just 30.

The main differences are that in Witcher 2, there were 7 or 8 essence types, plus the "-edo" para-elements in Witcher 1 and mutagens in Witcher II. Multiples of the same essence were rarely necessary in a recipe, but some ingredients were better and rarer than others- allowing you to create slightly different versions of the same potions.

In this one, better ingredients count as multiple ingredients, but do not alter the effectiveness of the potion. But yeah, definitely from a narrative perspective, it looks alarmingly similar to the Witcher's.

Do you have any ideas on ways to decrease that similarity? Or do you think it's different enough to be okay?

Even if this is never getting published for profit anywhere, I'd still like to avoid the opinion that I completely stole this from the Witcher, even though the game's system was the primary source of inspiration.

Beleriphon

2014-12-02, 10:45 AM

Do you have any ideas on ways to decrease that similarity? Or do you think it's different enough to be okay?

Even if this is never getting published for profit anywhere, I'd still like to avoid the opinion that I completely stole this from the Witcher, even though the game's system was the primary source of inspiration.

I wouldn't make it that much different. I was actually going to suggest The Witcher/2 (presumably 3 as well) as a good source of inspiration for this sort of thing. The other option is to go the Avernum route and just have a set list of generic ingredients like spiritual herbs, healing herbs and a few uncommon specifics (greymold, wolfsbane as examples) that can be used but the specifics only appear in certain places or are harder to find by region.

I personally like the Witcher system since actually follows a more medieval alchemy model where the nature of the plant/item is more important than its actual chemical makeup. I'd personally go for power modifiers as well, so throwing some fire essence into a healing potion makes is a potion of fire resistance in addition to a healing potion, but the healing isn't as effective.

Freelance GM

2014-12-02, 11:20 AM

I wouldn't make it that much different. I was actually going to suggest The Witcher/2 (presumably 3 as well) as a good source of inspiration for this sort of thing. The other option is to go the Avernum route and just have a set list of generic ingredients like spiritual herbs, healing herbs and a few uncommon specifics (greymold, wolfsbane as examples) that can be used but the specifics only appear in certain places or are harder to find by region.

I personally like the Witcher system since actually follows a more medieval alchemy model where the nature of the plant/item is more important than its actual chemical makeup. I'd personally go for power modifiers as well, so throwing some fire essence into a healing potion makes is a potion of fire resistance in addition to a healing potion, but the healing isn't as effective.

The DMG actually has rules for mixing two magic potions together- it's a D% roll that can neutralize one or both potions, keep both effects, or explode violently. That seems fun enough, so I don't think homebrewing something different for that is necessary.

As far as potion customization... I was going to hold off on working on it until I had the "Random Foraging by Region" charts done. I was thinking adding more Essence to existing potions would alter their effects in minor ways.

Using your example- adding Fire essence to a potion of Healing- might make it more "intense," upgrading the healing from d4's to d6's, but it would not grant fire resistance. Water could dilute it, splitting the potion into two Healing potions that heal 1d4+1 HP, instead of the normal 2d4+2. In other cases, it could halve the duration of something like a Potion of Growth.
Adding Earth could "stabilize" the potion- instead of rolling at all, you just take the average result. Adding Air would "destabilize" the potion, causing rolls of a 4 to explode Shadowrun-style, making it possible to heal more than normal.

Not sure about adding Positive or Negative essence. Since I associated Negative essence with poisons and toxic substances, I can't really see it adding any benefit.

Beleriphon

2014-12-02, 01:46 PM

Not sure about adding Positive or Negative essence. Since I associated Negative essence with poisons and toxic substances, I can't really see it adding any benefit.

Negative could be a more powerful effect, but a small change to have instead do poison damage.

GiantOctopodes

2014-12-02, 01:53 PM

In terms of actually gathering the ingredients, a proposition:

1) Print off a random wilderness map from a place like http://www.gozzys.com/wilderness-maps and have two copies of it. You could also do this all digitally if you're concerned about paper and ink costs.
2) On one copy, notate spots where ingredients exist, using whatever method suits you- rolling a die for the quantity of them, picking ingredients appropriate to the area, or whatever else you want to do. You can also add areas of difficult terrain if you are so inclined.
3) Give the forager the other copy. They make a Survival check, and the result impacts the speed at which they travel through. They draw a line on the map showing their search path. Based on their survival roll, they move X inches per hour (with the rate determined largely by the scale on which you printed the map and how thorough you want them to be able to be in one pass). They must leave enough time to head back before nightfall, unless camping in the woods that night. Movement rate is of course halved through difficult terrain unless they possess a class feature which negates that.
4) The forager makes a perception check. Any ingredients within X inches of the line are potentially spotted, with X being based largely on the scale, and modified by their perception roll.
5) Have them make a number of Knowledge (Nature) checks equal to the number of ingredients they potentially spotted + X (where X is ideally a D6, but can be a larger or smaller amount depending on how cruel you are). The DCs are set by the rarity of the ingredients in question., and obviously the bogus checks (ideally sprinkled in between rather than all at the end) are automatic failures. The ingredients successfully located and identified are obtained, and you can mark on their map where they were found.
6) If they continue to harvest in the same wilderness area (let's say people are at a city and they're doing this in the forests immediately outside said city) the same map is used, which means that an area can be "tapped out" over time. If you are using this idea, it is also a good idea to have the ingredients "respawn" at a rate appropriate to the material in question (days or weeks for many herbs and other plant based items, except in winter, potentially much longer or never for other items). The main idea behind this is that the forager in question, in addition to their books detailing recipies and such like that, might keep their maps and create the most efficient routes to harvest things when in area X. It also means you need fewer total maps, which saves on ink, which is never a bad thing.

This in practice:
The Raw Map
http://i60.tinypic.com/sy1pg9.jpg
As advertised.
The DM's Version:
http://i61.tinypic.com/290wuwp.jpg
The DM's version, with blue being common, purple uncommon, and red rare. Pink areas are difficult terrain. The Yellow arrow is the entry point from where the forager is staying.
Day 1:
http://i61.tinypic.com/2nszair.jpg
The forager walks south, clearing the area near the river. He rolls well on the survival check, so he can make the full trip. The choice to check the river was a wise one, as a common and uncommon ingredient are within the perception distance. Rolling 5 times for Knowledge (Nature), he passes both checks for the real ingredients.
Day 2:
http://i61.tinypic.com/sljr76.jpg
Less luck this day. He rolls poorly for his survival check, but doesn't want to go back emptyhanded, and knows that he has two days to get back before the party leaves this area. He set out on the northern path, but between a poor survival roll and trudging directly through difficult terrain, can't get anywhere near as far as he wants to. Camp is made for the night at the star. He also rolls poorly on the perception check, which means that both the common ingredient, and the rare ingredient right at the end of the day's journey, were not spotted. He makes 5 knowledge (nature) checks, but fails the one for the uncommon ingredient, and as such, doesn't find a single thing that day. Poor luck indeed.
Day 3:
http://i59.tinypic.com/2ynruio.jpg
Day 3: He makes a great survival roll, and can easily finish the rest of his intended path as well as getting back to camp before his party departs, despite trudging back through the difficult terrain. His perception check is adequate to spot the common, uncommon, and rare ingredients. Making 5 knowledge (nature) checks, he makes the check for the common ingredient, misses the uncommon ingredient, but succeeds at the one for the rare ingredient! He heads home having gathered two common ingredients, one uncommon ingredient, and a rare ingredient. There are still vast tracts of the map that have not been cleared, and ingredients within his existing search area that were missed, but that's not a bad start.

The best thing about this is it can be totally customized to suit your needs- you as the DM are in ultimate control of what is or is not present to be gathered, so you can have as many or as few ingredients as you like. Not all ingredients are natural? Replace some of the knowledge (nature) checks with other knowledge checks as appropriate to identify the ingredients. It also feels much more interactive for the player than just a set of rolls, and it takes almost no time to put together, so you're not significantly increasing your prep work. Obviously this whole thing was inspired by the game Battleship, turned into a foraging mini game, so I'm not going to claim this is an entirely original idea, but I think it could be fun. Anyone who chooses to run with this, let me know how it goes!

Safety Sword

2014-12-02, 05:48 PM

Eh... I'm not sure that I'd let my players break down potions. However, I'm one of those people who like options over choices, so there should be an optional rule for DM's who'd like that option.

I like your idea of handling it through a single "extraction" check. I feel like the DC for breaking down a potion

should be higher than crafting it... Perhaps the Crafting DC+5? The player can choose one type of Essence within the potion and get half of it back, rounded up. So, you could still break down something like Alchemist's Fire (Fire + Air) and get something out of it.

Great, now my opinion's changing about allowing it- maybe I will allow it in my games. Breaking down potions you don't need could be a good way to get ingredients that aren't available in the region your character's currently in.

At least you're more reasonable about it than many on these forums who stick to their "guns" no matter how ridiculous or poorly thought out their ideas are pointed out to be. I think we can all learn a lot from each others' experiences if an open mind is kept.

I agree with you that it should be harder to break a potion down than create one. It also makes lower level potions have some sort of use when their effect would otherwise be discarded as useless.

I chose Fire over Water for the potion of Fire Resistance recipe because of the way I imagined the potion working. Ultimately, it depends on the DM's headcanon on how the potions work. In my mind, the Potion of Fire Resistance is some kind of hot orange liquid that's practically boiling. Drinking it magically increases your tolerance for heat.

However, it could just as easily be a thick fluid with condensation gathering on the bottle. It's ice-cold and refreshing, and magically increases your tolerance for heat.

I tend to subscribe the elemental opposites sort of thinking, so your second option is how I would do it.

Eating fire to stop fire hurting you seems somewhat illogical to me. :smallamused:

Also in a world building sense it would seem to me that collecting ingredients in a region filled with fire type creatures should not allow you to help you resist those same creatures. However, your way is totally valid and I see the advantages. The other complication, I guess, is that you don't have two recipes that have the same ingredients for different effects, your way would be marginally easier to keep all the "fire stuff" together for ease of reference.

Freelance GM

2014-12-02, 07:08 PM

In terms of actually gathering the ingredients, a proposition:

They make a Survival check, and the result impacts the speed at which they travel through. They draw a line on the map showing their search path. Based on their survival roll, they move X inches per hour (with the rate determined largely by the scale on which you printed the map and how thorough you want them to be able to be in one pass). They must leave enough time to head back before nightfall, unless camping in the woods that night. Movement rate is of course halved through difficult terrain unless they possess a class feature which negates that.
The forager makes a perception check. Any ingredients within X inches of the line are potentially spotted, with X being based largely on the scale, and modified by their perception roll. The ingredients successfully located and identified are obtained, and you can mark on their map where they were found.

This is actually a pretty solid way of gathering ingredients, but it's a bit too specific, if that makes sense, for me. The idea I'm going for is gathering resources during Downtime- players can resolve it in two or three rolls, then get on with the adventuring. However, if there ever was an instance where the whole party has to thoroughly search an area for anything- from ingredients to traces of a missing caravan- this could be a more interactive way of doing it than just rolling Perception. Especially if there was a time limit, this method could make a search much more frantic and tense. Thanks for the idea!

I tend to subscribe the elemental opposites sort of thinking, so your second option is how I would do it.

Eating fire to stop fire hurting you seems somewhat illogical to me. :smallamused:

I think of it like a vaccination, or "building up an immunity to iocane powder."

Anyways, a sample chart:

Arctic: Forage DC 20
1 – 8: 1d4 clumps of Pale Moss (Water 1) This greenish-gray lichen typically grows in colder climates. It's edible and nutritious, but has a bitter taste.

9 – 14: 1d6+2 clumps of Pale Moss.

15 – 18: 1d4 Salix Willow (Positive 1) These red or yellow shrubs are extraordinarily long-lived. Their leaves can be used to make simple medicines.

19+: 1d3 Remorhaz Teeth (Fire 2) Frost Giants typically take these as trophies, but every once in a while, it's possible to find a frozen Remorhaz carcass that still has a few of its teeth.

Edenbeast

2014-12-03, 03:59 AM

Freelance GM

2014-12-03, 09:21 AM

Freelance GM

2014-12-03, 09:22 AM

I find this an interesting idea. I too prefer gathering ingredients.
Just my two cents: I think an intelligence Nature check is more appropriate for finding ingredients. Herbalism is something you have to learn. It's the lore of plants. Survival is a more basic/ intuitive skill that makes it easier to survive the wilds. Sure at some point you will know to avoid some plants as inedible or poisonous, but that doesn't mean you know you could use them as ingredients for potions. It's like the difference between knowing how to drive a car, and knowing how to fix it.

Perhaps checks to find ingredients could use Wisdom (Survival), while potion-crafting checks use Intelligence (Nature)?

That way, finding the ingredients is based on the character's ability to survive in the wilderness, and basic knowledge of what is and isn't useful. Actually making potions out of the ingredients, however, requires some level of education concerning the specific properties of the ingredients.

Edenbeast

2014-12-03, 11:49 AM

Could be. Maybe a survival check depending on environment to see if you find anything useful, then make an intelligence check to craft something from it. Instead of buying the raw materials, you make the intelligence check to see whether you can extract enough ingredients from the stuff you find to craft the potion. The check should be derived from the market value. The time that it takes you is the same as any crafting to keep it fair. This way you don't need so much a table for essences, just keeping it simple with two checks. What I find difficult is, what's a fair DC. First I thought market value/5, the same you use for how many days it takes to create an item. That would mean that the DC for a potion of healing would be 10.. and basic poison 20. However, for anything more exotic, you'd be looking at impossible DC's

MadGrady

2014-12-03, 01:42 PM

Anyways, a sample chart:

Arctic: Forage DC 20
1 – 8: 1d4 clumps of Pale Moss (Water 1) This greenish-gray lichen typically grows in colder climates. It's edible and nutritious, but has a bitter taste.

9 – 14: 1d6+2 clumps of Pale Moss.

15 – 18: 1d4 Salix Willow (Positive 1) These red or yellow shrubs are extraordinarily long-lived. Their leaves can be used to make simple medicines.

19+: 1d3 Remorhaz Teeth (Fire 2) Frost Giants typically take these as trophies, but every once in a while, it's possible to find a frozen Remorhaz carcass that still has a few of its teeth.

I really like the simplicity of this chart, but it also has some nice fluffy background to balance it out.

I may have missed it - but is the intention that they roll Forage DC 20 with whatever skill you choose as a DM. If they succeed - they roll again vs the ingrediant chart?

Freelance GM

2014-12-03, 01:55 PM

I really like the simplicity of this chart, but it also has some nice fluffy background to balance it out.

I may have missed it - but is the intention that they roll Forage DC 20 with whatever skill you choose as a DM. If they succeed - they roll again vs the ingrediant chart?

Correct. Two Wisdom (Survival) checks- one to see if they find any ingredients, and another to determine what ingredients they find.

SiuiS

2014-12-03, 01:57 PM

JoeJ

2014-12-03, 09:22 PM

Eating fire to stop fire hurting you seems somewhat illogical to me. :smallamused:

I actually like the idea of magic being illogical. Sometimes I even like to go all the way and make it logically impossible, yet still work. (I've probably just read too much Neil Gaiman.)

MadGrady

2014-12-04, 03:29 PM

I actually like the idea of magic being illogical. Sometimes I even like to go all the way and make it logically impossible, yet still work. (I've probably just read too much Neil Gaiman.)

Besides, this is a multiverse populated with magical elf game worlds, who says physics acts the same way on all of them :smallbiggrin:

Or....enchanted dwarf game worlds. Your preference really

Safety Sword

2014-12-04, 04:24 PM

Besides, this is a multiverse populated with magical elf game worlds, who says physics acts the same way on all of them :smallbiggrin:

Or....enchanted dwarf game worlds. Your preference really

That's progress for you...

Freelance GM

2014-12-04, 04:32 PM

Got some more charts!

Foraging DC: 20
1 – 8: 1d6 clumps of Pale Moss (Water 1) This greenish-gray lichen typically grows in colder climates. It's edible and nutritious, but has a bitter taste.

9 – 14: 1d4 Salix Willow (Positive 1) These red or yellow shrubs are extraordinarily long-lived. Their leaves can be used to make simple medicines.

15 – 18: 1 Remorhaz Tooth (Fire 2) Frost Giants typically take these as trophies, but every once in a while, it's possible to find a frozen Remorhaz carcass that still has a few of its teeth.

19 +: 1 cup of Elemental Water (Water 3) In the coldest extremes of the arctic, portals to the depths of the Elemental Plane of Water occasionally open, causing Elemental Water to pour into the cracks between glaciers. This supernatural fluid is indistinguishable from normal fresh water, except for one incredibly important exception: it never freezes, no matter how cold it gets.

Foraging DC: DC15
1 – 8: 1d4 Red Algae (Water 1) Red Algae has been used as a food by some coastal civilizations. Some have used it as a key ingredient in several dishes- others only eat it in times of famine.

9 – 14: 1d4 Brown Wrack (Air 1) Once it is dried and burned, Brown Wrack can be used to make a water-absorbing powder. It also has uses in determining the acidity of another liquid.

15 – 18: 1 Pearl Oyster (Water 2) Natural pearls make excellent arcane foci- as demonstrated by magical items such as Pearls of Power. This property also makes them incredibly valuable when making magical potions.

19 +: 1 Blisterfruit (Negative 3): Most civilizations have some system for marking Blisterfruit trees, as every part of the tree is extremely toxic. Even taking shelter beneath it can cause fatal amounts of blistering and swelling. Despite the risks, many coastal marauders harvest the tree's sap to create an agonizing poison for their weapons.

Foraging DC: 20
1 – 8: 1d4 Aloe Leaves (Positive 1): Aloe plants store water in these thick, fleshy leaves, making them a precious commodity among Desert people. They are also an ingredient in many herbal remedies.

9 – 14: 1d4 Orc Peppers (Fire 1): These brown and gray weeds somehow manage to thrive in any environment, and are famously resilient, much like the race they're named for. They bear thin, reddish-brown fruit that is notoriously spicy.

15 – 18: 1d3 Desert Rose Petals (Earth 2): These bizarre crystal formations can be found in arid, sandy places. When crushed into a powder, they can serve as a powerful stabilizing agent in alchemical mixtures.

19 +: 1 Red Glass Fragment (Fire 3): Red glass is a crystal always found in a large ring, leading to the theory that it forms when a portal to the Elemental Plane of Fire spontaneously opens in the driest, hottest parts of the desert. The Plane's magical fire and supernatural heat bakes the nearby sand into Red Glass.

Foraging DC: 10
1 – 8: 1d6 Bitterfruit (Earth 1): This heavy fruit grows on low, gnarled trees. It has a sour taste that some Elves enjoy.
9 – 14: 1d4 Dream Lotus (Water 1): This plant is known for its sweet taste and addictive properties. Eating it can cause senses of euphoria- but also temporary amnesia and confusion.
15 – 18: 1d3 Nightshade (Negative 2): The infamous poison this plant creates is frequently associated with Witchcraft and decadent nobles. Both are accused of using it to assassinate their enemies.
19+: Athelas (Positive 3): This famous Elven weed is known for its miraculous ability to heal wounds, and treat supernatural poisons.

I went and made a spreadsheet of ingredients, and the tally was 39 (17%) Air, 60 (26%) Earth, 14 (6% )Fire, 44 (19%) Water, 39 (17%) Positive, and 34 (16%) Negative. I also checked for duplicates, and I remembered why I did the "same-type" Resistance potions- the most intuitive recipes for the "opposites" caused duplicate recipes to occur. Still, if you really want to have Resistance potions made of the opposite elements, tinkering with some of the other recipes is easy enough.

Anyways, I'm designing the charts to have a proportionate distribution of ingredients- Earth ingredients are the most common because they're used the most, while Fire ingredients are the rarest because they're used the least. In fact, I think the charts I just finished are the only ones (out of 5E's 10 biomes) with any Fire ingredients in them.

The sum of all ingredients in all recipes is 230. Of that 230, 39 (17%) are Air, 60 (26%) are Earth, 14 (6% ) are Fire, 44 (19%) are Water, 39 (17%) are Positive, and 34 (16%) are Negative.

10 Biomes x 4 ingredients per biome = 40 ingredients. So, of those 40 ingredients, 6 (15%) are Air, 10 (25%) are Earth, 3 (7.5%) are Fire, 9 (22.5%) are Water, 6 (15%) are Positive, and 6 (15%) are Negative.

As a result, the ingredients you will use the most are also the most common, while the ones you will use the least are the least common.

Each Biome has 2 Common, 1 Uncommon, and 1 Rare ingredient. Very rare and legendary ingredients can only be found during adventures. These are just basic charts, though. If you wanted, you could make charts that have 10 ingredients- 1 of each Essence type, 3 Uncommons, and 1 Rare.
However, You'd just have to make sure that the distribution of ingredients stays the same. For example, if you DID have 10 ingredients per chart, then you'd have a total of 100 ingredients (10 Biomes x 10 Ingredients per Biome), and so you'd need 17 Air, 26 Earth, 6 Fire, 19 Water, 17 Positive, and 19 Negative ingredients. Isn't math fun?

Astovidas

2014-12-05, 09:12 AM

Hi Freelance GM

First of all I have to say, that I really like your ideas and want to thank you for all your work you are sharing here. I've read through your posts and copied all the rules and tables into a Word document, so that I could apply it to my gaming group.:smallsmile: (I hope that's ok with you?)

If you already have the charts for the other biomes i would love to take a look at them!

Some Input from my side:

Foraging Tables: Since you have to make two checks; does the first check have any influence on which Ingredients are found or only if anything is found at all.
IMHO it should have an influence. Because if my Ranger searches for ingredients in a forest and rolls a natural 20 on his first check, but then only has a 1 on the second, he will only find some bitterfruits, which grow all over the place.. i like the idea of MadGrady to let them roll with advantage and then let them chose the roll. Let's say, if they are 5 points above the DC or if they have a natural 20.

And on the same topic, can he chose to take a lower result? E.g. the heroes are in a desert and need some healing. They search for days and all they find are these stupid, and very rare, red glass fragments.

Although actually, as I'm writing this, i kind of like it.. :smallbiggrin: They need something very simple and common and they only find the most expensive and rarest plants, which are (atm at least) useless to them.. :smalltongue:

I think I would add more diversity to each biome chart. So that you have most of the essences in each biome. Of course it should be very hard or nearly impossible to create a Fire Breath or Fire Resistance potion in an arctic setting, but as of now, you can't create a simple healing Potion at the beach. therefore i Think you have to add more plants to each biome and maybe even go for a 1-100 Chart. And then add a lot of plants with 1 essence and only a few stronger ones.
Some of the plants could even exist in more than one biome. e.g. Aloe Vera in forests, and Orc Pepper in plains, Brown Wrack in Swamps...

But anyway, I really like your rule system so far!

Freelance GM

2014-12-05, 10:58 AM

Hi Freelance GM
I've read through your posts and copied all the rules and tables into a Word document, so that I could apply it to my gaming group.:smallsmile: (I hope that's ok with you?)

If you already have the charts for the other biomes i would love to take a look at them!

Some Input from my side:

Foraging Tables: Since you have to make two checks; does the first check have any influence on which Ingredients are found or only if anything is found at all.

And on the same topic, can he chose to take a lower result? E.g. the heroes are in a desert and need some healing. They search for days and all they find are these stupid, and very rare, red glass fragments.

I think I would add more diversity to each biome chart. So that you have most of the essences in each biome.

But anyway, I really like your rule system so far!

Glad you like it!

Copying the rules is fine, just make sure that a link to this thread is somewhere on the copy. When this is finished (or as close to finished as possible) I'll probably compile all of the rules into something more organized and post a link.

The other charts aren't done yet- but I'll post them as soon as they are. As far as having bigger biome charts, yeah, I'll probably end up expanding them sooner or later.

On a semi-related note, I was wrong about my 10-per-biome math yesterday. 10 ingredients per biome would leave you with 6 sources of Fire Essence- which means 4 biomes wouldn't have any. In order to have 1 source of Fire Essence in each Biome- while preserving the "junk-preventing ratio" of 6% of all ingredients being Fire Essence, you would need to have at least 17 ingredients per Biome.

...I'm probably not going to do 17-ingredients-per-Biome charts.

As far as the rolling goes, the current idea is that right now, you roll a check to find anything, then you roll to see what you find. You're stuck with what you get.
HOWEVER, the next thing I'm planning to add (after the next 6 Biome charts) are two custom feats: Alchemist and Forager. The details are still pretty up-in-the-air, but the Forager feat will give the player some influence over what ingredients they get. Right now, I'm thinking of taking the popular "roll twice and choose either result" suggestion (and some extra stuff, to make it worth spending a feat on.)

SiuiS

2014-12-05, 01:04 PM

Derp this is a 5e thread no wonder I couldn't find it again.

In that case I basically do what the OP does. XD

pwykersotz

2014-12-06, 03:33 AM

I personally use the idea that finding enough herbs and roots for a potion is about the same as feeding yourself for a day (you're selecting for toxic potion ingredients instead of nutritious foods). That accumulated herbage has a GP value equal to rations. Craft: alchemy treats this as "Raw Materials" for creating potion components, which means when you get 10 gp of "herbs", which you craft into 20 go of "reagents" which are 20gp worth of material to use for potion crafting (which makes 60gp worth of potion if you've got the XP).

Not time effective really, but then most professions and such work across a week so you're not doing too bad making GP/day.

I like this system if we're trying to keep it simple. Creating charts and tables for both players and the GM to track devolves into more spreadsheets very quickly, and complexity is why I play 3.5, not 5e.

As an addendum, you can have places like The Druid Grove or Titania's Garden where a similar gather check gets substantially better ingredients worth more gold. And then you can save the special plants for legendary potions. Things like a single blood rose grown upon the Mountain of the Sun, picked at noon on the 13th day of the month that allows for one-off super alchemy stuff. But potions of healing? Survival vs DC 10 in the Kings Woods. DC 15 in the Bog of Terrors. DC 20 in the Snowpeaks of Frostfall. DC 25 in the Kelthic Wastes. DC 30 in the Demonic Pit of Despair.

Freelance GM

2014-12-06, 05:08 PM

I like this system if we're trying to keep it simple. Creating charts and tables for both players and the GM to track devolves into more spreadsheets very quickly, and complexity is why I play 3.5, not 5e.

As an addendum, you can have places like The Druid Grove or Titania's Garden where a similar gather check gets substantially better ingredients worth more gold. And then you can save the special plants for legendary potions. Things like a single blood rose grown upon the Mountain of the Sun, picked at noon on the 13th day of the month that allows for one-off super alchemy stuff. But potions of healing? Survival vs DC 10 in the Kings Woods. DC 15 in the Bog of Terrors. DC 20 in the Snowpeaks of Frostfall. DC 25 in the Kelthic Wastes. DC 30 in the Demonic Pit of Despair.

Making the system is complex, but in play, it isn't that much more complicated than Wild Magic. Two rolls, plus some tinkering during Downtime. My only problem with a single simple check is that then the players are basically rolling for money.

I'm okay picking up a little bit more complexity, so long as it also improves the atmosphere of the game. In my opinion, "You find 10gp of ingredients" just doesn't seem as immersive as "You find a handful of Orc Peppers," and I'm alright sacrificing simplicity for the extra attention to detail and world-building.

At the same time, though, I understand what you mean about things getting too complicated- I don't want this system to become a massive chunk of the game, like combat. If players have to consult a 100-page packet listing off ingredients and recipes to figure out what exactly they needed to make their Potion of Longevity, then that's too much. Even 20 pages is still too much. I'd be disappointed with myself if the final project was any longer than 10 pages, really.

SiuiS

2014-12-06, 10:58 PM

As an addendum, you can have places like The Druid Grove or Titania's Garden where a similar gather check gets substantially better ingredients worth more gold. And then you can save the special plants for legendary potions. Things like a single blood rose grown upon the Mountain of the Sun, picked at noon on the 13th day of the month that allows for one-off super alchemy stuff. But potions of healing? Survival vs DC 10 in the Kings Woods. DC 15 in the Bog of Terrors. DC 20 in the Snowpeaks of Frostfall. DC 25 in the Kelthic Wastes. DC 30 in the Demonic Pit of Despair.

Oh, I had a system like that once. I added in RP stuff, so people who talked to locals could reduce the base difficulty in the local climate. If you spend a session talking to the brewers about their secret ingredient (mushrooms) in the northern mountains, you learn about the properties and descriptions of the local flora. Reduce difficulty one tier, et al.

Making the system is complex, but in play, it isn't that much more complicated than Wild Magic. Two rolls, plus some tinkering during Downtime. My only problem with a single simple check is that then the players are basically rolling for money.

That's quite literally what it is, actually. It was an off the cuff compilation of the 3e rules, and we use those for lots of things. Have one character who's a pioneer,gnomes in and works professions: lumberjack, miner, carpenter to end up with the raw materials to start crafting and make a whole village.

I clicked this thread from the front page and thought it was a 3e rules thing :smallredface:.

I'm okay picking up a little bit more complexity, so long as it also improves the atmosphere of the game. In my opinion, "You find 10gp of ingredients" just doesn't seem as immersive as "You find a handful of Orc Peppers," and I'm alright sacrificing simplicity for the extra attention to detail and world-building.

I'm all over finding Orc peppers, myself.

Freelance GM

2014-12-07, 11:16 AM

I clicked this thread from the front page and thought it was a 3e rules thing :smallredface:.

Well, actually, all you'd really have to do to make this work in 3E is switch out the Intelligence (Nature) check to make a potion for a Craft: Alchemical check.

And maybe boost all the DCs by about 5 to adjust for Skill Points.

Mr. Bitter

2014-12-07, 04:40 PM

Just wanted to post that I enjoy this thread and the direction it is going.

Freelance GM

2014-12-17, 02:18 PM

Ugh. Because of real life interfering and my own short attention span, I don't have a comprehensive list of materials. My fault for making myself do all kinds of research on geography, ecology, herbalism, alchemy and minerals, instead of just completely making stuff up.

However, I do have modified Environment tables for more resources. There is 1 common ingredient for every type of essence in each biome. For each additional ingredient in that environment, it increases in rarity. So, a Swamp has 3 Water Essence ingredients. 1 would be common, 1 would be uncommon, and 1 would be rare.

Using the material below, you should have everything you need to build your own ingredient tables. However, I'll still be making mine, and posting them when they're done.

Environment
Air Essence
Earth Essence
Fire Essence
Water Essence
Positive Essence
Negative Essence
Foraging DC

Arctic
1
2
1
3
2
1
DC20

Coastal
2
1
1
3
1
2
D15

Desert
2
2
3
1
1
1
DC20

Forest
1
2
1
2
2
2
DC10

Grassland
3
2
1
1
2
1
DC15

Hill
2
3
1
1
2
1
DC15

Mountain
3
2
1
2
1
1
DC20

Swamp
1
1
1
3
1
3
DC15

Underground
1
3
1
1
1
3
DC20

Underwater
1
3
1
3
1
1
DC15

There are 3 types of distribution, each with its own chart.
Since there's 10 ingredients per biome, you can use D20's or D%'s. On the charts, the number corresponds to how many of that Essence type are available; Common 3 would refer to Water Essence in a Swamp or Earth Essence in hills.
TYPE 1 (1/1/1/2/2/3 distribution)
1-3: Common 3
4-5: Common 2
6-7: Common 2
8-9: Common 1
10-11: Common 1
12-13: Common 1
14-15: Uncommon 2
16-17: Uncommon 2
18-19: Uncommon 3
20: Rare 3

TYPE 2 (1/1/2/2/2/2 distribution)
1-2: Common 2
3-4: Common 2
5-6: Common 2
7-8: Common 2
9-10: Common 1
11-12: Common 1
13-14: Common 1
15-16: Common 1
17: Uncommon 2
18: Uncommon 2
19: Uncommon 2
20: Uncommon 2

TYPE 3 (1/1/1/1/3/3 Distribution)
1-2: Common 3
3-4: Common 3
5-6: Common 1
7-8: Common 1
9-10: Common 1
11-12: Common 1
13-14: Uncommon 3
15-16: Uncommon 3
17-18: Rare 3
19-20: Rare 3

And the Long-awaited Feats!

Forager
Prerequisite: Proficiency in the Survival skill.

You have Advantage on Wisdom (Survival) checks to locate ingredients.
Whenever you find a Common ingredient, you find 1d4 ingredients instead.
When you roll to see what ingredients you find, you may roll twice and choose either result.

Alchemist
Prerequisite: Proficiency with Herbalism Kit, Alchemist's Tools, or Poisoner's Kit

You have Advantage on Intelligence checks to craft a Potion you have a recipe for.
You do not have Disadvantage on Intelligence checks to create potions without a recipe.
Whenever you create a potion you have a recipe for, you can choose to add one of the following effects by adding 1 additional Essence. However, this extra ingredient increases the crafting DC accordingly, and you do not have Advantage on the check, since you're no longer following the recipe.

Inhaled: You can throw the potion 20 feet by making a ranged attack against a creature or object, treating the potion as an improvised weapon. If it hits, the target is affected by the potion as if the target drank it. Creatures that do not breathe cannot be affected by Inhaled potions. +1 Air Essence

Stable: Instead of rolling for a potion's effects, you may choose to take the average result. For example, a Stable Potion of Healing would heal 6 hitpoints, instead of 2d4+2. If you do not roll dice for the potion, this ability has no effect. +1 Earth Essence.

Intense: If dice are rolled as part of the potion's effects, use the next largest die instead. For example, an Intense Potion of Healing would heal 2d6+2 hitpoints, instead of 2d4+2. +1 Fire Essence.

Diluted: Instead of 1 potion, you create 2 Diluted potions instead. Each potion has half of the normal effect. For potions that involve rolling dice, you roll half as many dice, rounded down. For other potions, the duration lasts half as long. A diluted potion of Healing would only heal 1d4+1 HP, and a diluted Potion of Hill Giant Strength would only last 30 minutes. +1 Water Essence

Lingering: The potion's duration lasts twice as long. If the potion's effect is instantaneous, roll a D6 at the beginning of the target's next turn. On a 6, the creature is affected by the potion again. +1 Positive Essence

Tenacious: the DC of any saving throws the creature has to make as part of the potion's effect are increased by half your Proficiency Bonus. If the potion does not require a Saving throw, this ability has no effect. +1 Negative Essence.

pwykersotz

2014-12-18, 01:03 PM

And the Long-awaited Feats!

Forager
Prerequisite: Proficiency in the Survival skill.

You add twice your Proficiency bonus to Survival checks to locate ingredients.
Whenever you find a Common ingredient, you find 1d4 ingredients instead.
When you roll to see what ingredients you find, you may roll twice and choose either result.

Alchemist
Prerequisite: Proficiency with Herbalism Kit, Alchemist's Tools, or Poisoner's Kit

You add twice your Proficiency bonus to checks to craft a Potion you have a recipe for.
You do not have Disadvantage on checks to create potions without a recipe.
Whenever you create a potion you have a recipe for, you can choose to add one of the following effects by adding 1 additional Essence.

Inhaled: You can throw the potion 20 feet by making a ranged attack against a creature or object, treating the potion as an improvised weapon. If it hits, the target is affected by the potion as if the target drank it. +1 Air Essence

Stable: Instead of rolling for a potion's effects, you may choose to take the average result. For example, a Stable Potion of Healing would heal 6 hitpoints, instead of 2d4+2. If you do not roll dice for the potion, this ability has no effect. +1 Earth Essence.

Intense: If dice are rolled as part of the potion's effects, use the next largest die instead. For example, an Intense Potion of Healing would heal 2d6+2 hitpoints, instead of 2d4+2. +1 Fire Essence.

Diluted: Instead of 1 potion, you create 2 Diluted potions instead. Each potion has half of the normal effect. For potions that involve rolling dice, you roll half as many dice, rounded down. For other potions, the duration lasts half as long. A diluted potion of Healing would only heal 1d4+1 HP, and a diluted Potion of Hill Giant Strength would only last 30 minutes. +1 Water Essence

Lingering: The potion's duration lasts twice as long. If the potion's effect is instantaneous, roll a D6 at the beginning of the target's next turn. On a 6, the creature is affected by the potion again. +1 Positive Essence

Tenacious: the DC of any saving throws the creature has to make as part of the potion's effect are increased by half your Proficiency Bonus. If the potion does not require a Saving throw, this ability has no effect. +1 Negative Essence.

I feel like the feats should also add +1 to a stat and drop the Prereq's. At least for Forager. Alchemist is pretty sweet, I like the extra effects.

I'm not sure about the double proficiency for a single application of the skill though. In general the existing feats grant advantage to a specific application instead. Double proficiency is for skills as a whole. I don't know that it's important, but I'd be inclined to stick with the theme.

Still, great job, this is looking super fun. :smallsmile:

Freelance GM

2014-12-18, 01:32 PM

I feel like the feats should also add +1 to a stat and drop the Prereq's. At least for Forager. Alchemist is pretty sweet, I like the extra effects.

I'm not sure about the double proficiency for a single application of the skill though. In general the existing feats grant advantage to a specific application instead. Double proficiency is for skills as a whole. I don't know that it's important, but I'd be inclined to stick with the theme.

Still, great job, this is looking super fun. :smallsmile:

Way to go, you managed to spot the two things I wasn't sure about.

I feel like if you're actually playing with this subsystem in use, then those feats are pretty powerful compared to some of the ones in the PHB. The system lets you create expensive magical potions at no price- provided you invest enough time into creating them. The ability to get even better at creating free magic items should have a pretty heavy feat tax and some prerequisites, IMO.
Besides, the characters who are most likely to be doing anything with the two Feats- Rangers, Druids, Rogues, and Wizards with the Hermit background- are more than likely to meet the prerequisites anyways, and if that's not the case, players can spend Downtime to learn those proficiencies.

Mathematically, I'm not sure if there's a huge difference between double proficiency and Advantage... Plus, it fits better with removing Disadvantage from checks without a recipe. So sure, why not. I'll make the change.

I'm glad you like the Alchemist effects, though. There was talk earlier about customizing potions, and this was the most I felt like I could do without breaking the game, or making the system too complex. Even then, I feel like Diluted Potion is kind of pushing it a bit.

A Lingering Potion of Superior Healing could also be a problem- that would be an insane amount of healing from one potion. On the other hand, you'd need like a Legendary positive ingredient, or else the crafting DC would be somewhere in the mid 20's, so maybe it's balanced enough after all?

EDIT: Made some changes to the feat, and added a clarification that wasn't as clear as I thought it would be the first time I wrote it.
Modifying the potions isn't working off the recipe anymore, so you no longer have Advantage. Additionally, according to the crafting rules, adding extra ingredients makes the craft DC go up. Depending on which rules you were interpreting, these things would have happened anyways, and this is actually the way I intended that ability to work- it just explicitly states it now. Sorry if that makes the feat less awesome for you.

Fralex

2014-12-19, 04:58 AM

Yesyesyesyesyes this is exactly the sort of moderately complex crafting system I've been looking for. I'm surprized this never occured to me; it's very similar to something I came up with for an alchemist class in a homebrewed RPG years ago and forgot about and oh my god that was a decade ago I can't believe I'm thinking about things that happened a decade ago now this is weird for me help

ANYWAY, everything you're doing is great and I want to help! I will reinstall my drawing programs and make graphics to go along with it! Like... little symbols that can represent each element and stuff! It'll be awesome! We should put together like, a document! With titles! And pictures! And tables! Post it for all to see! You'll be rich! Internet rich.*

*not actually a real kind of being rich

Freelance GM

2014-12-19, 10:59 AM

We should put together like, a document! With titles! And pictures! And tables! Post it for all to see! You'll be rich! Internet rich.*

Don't worry- this is happening as soon as I finish brainstorming ingredients for the region charts. (Which is happening at a slower-than-expected pace, especially since I made the charts bigger...)

Once everything is actually completely done, it's getting lumped together into some kind of not-for-profit PDF with a kindly-worded foreword politely asking WOTC not to shoot it down and sue me. (5E isn't under the OGL.)

Don't feel obligated to start slaving away making free artwork for me, but a few simple art assets actually would be pretty cool.

Fralex

2014-12-21, 07:25 AM

Don't worry- this is happening as soon as I finish brainstorming ingredients for the region charts. (Which is happening at a slower-than-expected pace, especially since I made the charts bigger...)

Once everything is actually completely done, it's getting lumped together into some kind of not-for-profit PDF with a kindly-worded foreword politely asking WOTC not to shoot it down and sue me. (5E isn't under the OGL.)

Don't feel obligated to start slaving away making free artwork for me, but a few simple art assets actually would be pretty cool.

Oh yeah, I don't even know what sort of artwork I would even make beyond a few neat-looking symbols! I just wanna do something to help! :smallsmile:

Spacehamster

2014-12-21, 08:17 AM

My idea for a gathering system is not as complex. there is 4 different types of helpful and hurtful herbs for potions and poison respectively: mundane, uncommon, rare and mythical.

On your downtime you can choose to gather helpful or hurtful(or both types) with a survival check, the higher the roll the more and better stuff you find. :)

You start with knowledge of basic healing pot and basic poison if you are proficient in either kit. And basic experimentation which lets you mix a bunch of herbs and learn new recipes. Once you have learned enough lower tier recipes you get uncommon experimentation and so on. :)

Oh and if you are proficient in nature and perception you get a +2 for each profs on the survival roll to find herbs. If you have both perception and nature you instead get +3 for each for a total of +6 bonus to the roll.

Spacehamster to infinity and beyond

Fralex

2014-12-24, 02:20 PM

pwykersotz

2014-12-24, 03:29 PM

Prepare to taste healing! And boy, is it salty!

Freelance GM

2014-12-24, 03:52 PM

If you want a more thematic collection of possible essences, you might want to consider replacing positive and negative with the alchemical trinity of Mind, Body, and Spirit (sulfur, salt, and mercury, respectively). Last night I tried it out and was able to convert all the potion recipes with little effort. In most cases I felt those three essences worked better than the positive/negative ones.
For example:
Philter of Love = fire + water + mind
Potion of Healing = body + body
Oil of Etherealness = body + spirit + spirit + spirit
Potion of Poison Resistance = body + body + earth
Potion of Invisibility = air + air + air + mind + mind

Just because the system is already so close to finished, I'm going to stick with the 6 I have, but here's an idea: anyone who wants to take a step away from the "4 Elements and +/- Energy" can easily do a name swap, instead of adding a seventh essence to worry about integrating into all the charts.

You could have a positive and negative version of each one in the trinity- Mind/Body/Spirit to create the following six:

Earth --> Positive Body
Positive --> Positive Spirit
Water --> Positive Mind
Negative --> Negative Body
Fire --> Negative Spirit
Air --> Negative Mind.

edvdwal

2014-12-31, 08:21 AM

Just because the system is already so close to finished, I'm going to stick with the 6 I have, but here's an idea: anyone who wants to take a step away from the "4 Elements and +/- Energy" can easily do a name swap, instead of adding a seventh essence to worry about integrating into all the charts.

You could have a positive and negative version of each one in the trinity- Mind/Body/Spirit to create the following six:

Earth --> Positive Body
Positive --> Positive Spirit
Water --> Positive Mind
Negative --> Negative Body
Fire --> Negative Spirit
Air --> Negative Mind.

Any update or completed guide? really looking forward to this!

darkscizor

2014-12-31, 12:35 PM

Someone earlier said they didn't think that the DMG listed consumable items as being cheaper to make. I'm going to confirm that they do cost half to make- as on page 135, DnD 5e, DMG.

Freelance GM

2014-12-31, 01:36 PM

Any update or completed guide? really looking forward to this!

I'm still slowly chipping away at it. I want the packet to emphasize how much freedom DM's are intended to have with the subsystem, so there's a lot of examples and imagination-provoking flavor to write, in addition to the actual "rules" part.

The whole "holidays" thing prevented me from getting too much done in the last few weeks, but I'm going to try and have everything done before the end of January.

Louro

2014-12-31, 02:12 PM

Freelance GM

2014-12-31, 03:26 PM

I didn't like the essence thing too much, but I see the benefits of it. Take it easy freelancer, I'd rather wait more to have a good resource, and if you provide it with he DMG spirit as you said (DM freedom, inspirational examples...) I'm sure it'll be a great thing to have. BTW, thanks for your work dude.

You're welcome- but I have to say, working on this project has been a lot easier since it picked up such a positive following here. I don't think this project would have gotten as far as it has without the positive feedback and support I got from you all.

Great. Now I'm feeling all sappy and appreciated. I'm going to change the topic with a preview before I get too emotional.

Here's some samples of Very Rare Ingredients- the kind you can't find on the biome charts, and actually have to go on a side-quest for. Caution: contains references to Pathfinder Bestiary I, Harry Potter, and my favorite Magic set.

Rising Violet Petal (Very Rare Air Ingredient). These beautiful purple flowers are actually named for their incredible size- most grow to the size of small trees. They would be more well-known, were it not for the fact that they only grow in the flying domains of the Cloud Giants. The botanist who named them thought the name was a clever pun on the term “shrinking violet.” His peers didn't get the joke, and spent far too much time investigating a correlation between the altitude of the plant and the height it would grow to.

Gelugon Heart (Very Rare Water Ingredient). Legends suggest that Gelugons (Ice Devils) do not have hearts, so they extract a mortal's and implant it into their hollow chest cavity. Regardless of whether or not the stories of their origin is true, Gelugons do in fact have hearts, and the fluid inside the shriveled, frozen things are excellent alchemical ingredients, as it prevent liquids from freezing, no matter how cold they get.

Red Dragon Tongue (Very Rare Fire Ingredient). Naturally, a Red Dragon tongue can only be harvested from the fresh corpse of a Red Dragon. The maverick researcher Mai Tsaot discovered that the age of the dragon has no impact on its effectiveness, shortly before discovering that even Red Dragons feel compelled to defend their young. Her research was published posthumously when a band of adventurers found her notes in the scorched ruins of a mountain village.

Great Diamond (Very Rare Earth Ingredient). This sparkling diamond is almost the size of a human thumb, and would make an ideal component for a Reincarnate or Resurrection spell. However, it would also make an exceptionally potent alchemical ingredient. Diamonds such as this are only found deep in the Earth- the Clerics who use them may shudder to learn that they were probably used as currency by Underdark slavers, before they found their way to the surface.

Unicorn Blood (Very Rare Positive Ingredient). Finding a unicorn in the wild is hard enough, but trapping and killing it requires a special level of depravity. Unicorn blood has the curious property of prolonging life, but it is an incomplete half-life, not entirely dissimilar to the effect created by the False Life spell. Quite ironically, such a substance would be invaluable in potions that are meant to heal someone for the brink of death.

Black Ichor (Very Rare Negative Ingredient). This glistening oil is notoriously dangerous. It's thinner than water, but can become incredibly adhesive when it “chooses” to be. Simply touching it is a dangerous mistake- it infects the body like a virus, causing the host to generate more ichor in a process that is both agonizing and fatal. Some stories suggest the substance isn't natural, and speak of evil creatures that used it as a bioweapon in their incursions to other Planes. Fortunately, the substance has only ever been found in labyrinthine Underdark vaults filled with deadly traps.

pwykersotz

2014-12-31, 04:09 PM

Red Dragon Tongue (Very Rare Fire Ingredient). Naturally, a Red Dragon tongue can only be harvested from the fresh corpse of a Red Dragon. The maverick researcher Mai Tsaot discovered that the age of the dragon has no impact on its effectiveness, shortly before discovering that even Red Dragons feel compelled to defend their young. Her research was published posthumously when a band of adventurers found her notes in the scorched ruins of a mountain village.

This one is my favorite so far. :smallbiggrin:

AugustNights

2015-01-01, 07:58 PM

Interesting. All of this is very interesting.

Question: Is the Rising Violet Petal supposed to be a Very Rare Air ingredient?

Freelance GM

2015-01-02, 10:37 AM

Interesting. All of this is very interesting.

Question: Is the Rising Violet Petal supposed to be a Very Rare Air ingredient?

Yep. I mistyped it, didn't I? I'm going to go fix that.

Fralex

2015-01-07, 08:59 PM

Astovidas

2015-01-09, 05:44 AM

I think it's a nice idea. :smallsmile: However I wouldn't add these ingredients in the charts or something like that. Because as you said in your example;

a mushroom only found in places with volcanic activity that yields an Uncommon fire/earth essence when calcinated
these are special ingredients only found in rare places. Therefore I would handle these like a mini or side quest in order to get these and I would leave the definition of the exact ingredient to the DM. To add them specifically and define them would be (imho) too complicated or too limiting.

Maybe your group travels through an icy tundra. Good luck finding volcanoes there (or any fire ingredients for that matter..). So your mushroom could not be used. But maybe you could find a special plant, which can be burnt with a special procedure to create such a fire/earth ingredient. Or you find some frozen algae as water/negative. etc etc.. :smallbiggrin:

Riznof

2015-01-24, 04:04 PM

Hey I just wanted to say thanks for what you've created so far and shared with us. I'm looking forward to your final compilation. I have a druid in my game as well that is wanted to craft potions through herbalism much like in Warcraft. The info you've provided is the most concise and cleanest resource I've found so far. I've been scouring everywhere too.

Main thing I'd like to see is making sure the crafting and herb finding doesn't interfere with the pace of the adventure. Rules as written in the PHB just seem cumbersome and boring. Especially when running published adventures (we are running Hoard of the Dragon Queen right now.) Not much room for taking 8 hours of downtime when things are moving so fast. Of course this has to not be overpowered and game breaking too.

Thanks again! Going to subscribe to this thread.

Freelance GM

2015-02-16, 11:18 PM

Have you considered having some Uncommon ingredients be treated as two different essences intertwined, to help improve efficiency for recipes that don't have repetition? For example, a mushroom only found in places with volcanic activity that yields an Uncommon fire/earth essence when calcinated?

Yes, I did think about having Hybrid ingredients... From a purely mathematical standpoint, throwing them in would make everything a lot more complicated, and mean editing the charts for a third (or fourth?) time.

However, my "You're the DM, do what you want," policy demands that I point out that hybrid ingredients are 100% compatible with the system, so it would be pretty easy to put them into a home game as loot. Actually implementing them on the Random Ingredient tables would be a different, much more complicated problem. Right now, the charts are balanced so that you're most likely to get the ingredients you will be needing the most of- adding hybrids would require redoing that balance.

I think it's a nice idea...I would handle these like a mini or side quest in order to get these and I would leave the definition of the exact ingredient to the DM. To add them specifically and define them would be (imho) too complicated or too limiting.

Hey I just wanted to say thanks for what you've created so far and shared with us. I'm looking forward to your final compilation. I have a druid in my game as well that is wanted to craft potions through herbalism much like in Warcraft. The info you've provided is the most concise and cleanest resource I've found so far. I've been scouring everywhere too.

It's always exciting to know someone else found this to be much cooler than the PhB crafting rules!

As far as an update on that mythical "final compilation" goes, school has hit hard this quarter, and I haven't had nearly as much time to finish this as I thought I would. A good chunk of the basic Foraging rules are done. I'd really like each chart to have its own ingredients, just for the sake of variety and delicious flavor, but that still requires making up 100 plants.

It would be a massive help if you all could start throwing out names and ideas for Common, Uncommon, and Rare ingredients.
Ideally, ingredients with this level of rarity should be fairly close to real-life plants. If it's a real-life plant with a different name, that works too. (Why would a cactus be called a saguaro in a setting where no-one speaks Spanish?) Some of the Rare ingredients may be overtly magical, but I've been saving most of those for Very Rare ingredients.

Basically, if I can fill out those charts, then a massive portion of the work is taken care of, and I can stop worrying about creating plausible plants and get back to finishing the second half of the rules- the Potion-brewing part.

I still intend to finish this project, and I'd still rather not open it up to full collaboration, but I haven't been able to work on it for a while. Any ingredients you all can make up would be a helpful step towards getting this finished, though. Thanks for staying interested!

Alerad

2015-02-17, 08:37 AM

I personally use the idea that finding enough herbs and roots for a potion is about the same as feeding yourself for a day (you're selecting for toxic potion ingredients instead of nutritious foods). That accumulated herbage has a GP value equal to rations. Craft: alchemy treats this as "Raw Materials" for creating potion components, which means when you get 10 gp of "herbs", which you craft into 20 go of "reagents" which are 20gp worth of material to use for potion crafting (which makes 60gp worth of potion if you've got the XP).

Not time effective really, but then most professions and such work across a week so you're not doing too bad making GP/day.

I intend to use something similar as well. Successful check (add proficiency if you have Herbalism kit or Nature, Medicine, Survival, Alchemy, Poisoner's kit - why not) gives you XXX worth of gp materials (herbs) per day of harvesting while traveling. Crafting uses the general crafting rules, 25 gp/day per character and all potions are "half price" - you only need 25 gp of ingredients to make a basic healing potion.

I used the same for magical materials. "You find 300 gp worth of magical materials. You need a 100 gp pearl? Roll a die. On 10 or more, there is one in the pile! You now have 200 gp of magical materials left." I haven't found other applications yet, but if I do (500 gp of two-handed weapons?), I'll use the same system.

While lazy, it provides easy rules and it's fast.

If I have to design a specific adventure however where the characters need to make a potion and collect certain ingredients, I'll definitely go with some more detailed approach.

jkat718

2015-02-20, 03:33 PM

Freelance GM

2015-02-26, 11:39 AM

@Alerad: Would this help you with plant names? It's a $2 eBook titled 101 Fantasy Plants.
DriveThru RPG (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/144450/101-Fantasy-Plants)

I am unaffiliated with both the author and publisher of the product in question, and will receive no benefit from its purchase.

Thanks for the help!

I also stumbled on a couple other sources, including a random generator.

5 of the 10 Biome charts are done, and the others are nearing completion. Things should pick up the pace again once those are finished. Writing the potion rules is basically copy-pasting stuff from the forum, then doing a bit of proofreading.

Bharaeth

2015-03-06, 12:35 PM

Alchemist
Prerequisite: Proficiency with Herbalism Kit, Alchemist's Tools, or Poisoner's Kit

You have Advantage on Intelligence checks to craft a Potion you have a recipe for.
You do not have Disadvantage on Intelligence checks to create potions without a recipe.
Whenever you create a potion you have a recipe for, you can choose to add one of the following effects by adding 1 additional Essence. However, this extra ingredient increases the crafting DC accordingly, and you do not have Advantage on the check, since you're no longer following the recipe.

Inhaled: You can throw the potion 20 feet by making a ranged attack against a creature or object, treating the potion as an improvised weapon. If it hits, the target is affected by the potion as if the target drank it. Creatures that do not breathe cannot be affected by Inhaled potions. +1 Air Essence

Stable: Instead of rolling for a potion's effects, you may choose to take the average result. For example, a Stable Potion of Healing would heal 6 hitpoints, instead of 2d4+2. If you do not roll dice for the potion, this ability has no effect. +1 Earth Essence.

Intense: If dice are rolled as part of the potion's effects, use the next largest die instead. For example, an Intense Potion of Healing would heal 2d6+2 hitpoints, instead of 2d4+2. +1 Fire Essence.

Diluted: Instead of 1 potion, you create 2 Diluted potions instead. Each potion has half of the normal effect. For potions that involve rolling dice, you roll half as many dice, rounded down. For other potions, the duration lasts half as long. A diluted potion of Healing would only heal 1d4+1 HP, and a diluted Potion of Hill Giant Strength would only last 30 minutes. +1 Water Essence

Lingering: The potion's duration lasts twice as long. If the potion's effect is instantaneous, roll a D6 at the beginning of the target's next turn. On a 6, the creature is affected by the potion again. +1 Positive Essence

Tenacious: the DC of any saving throws the creature has to make as part of the potion's effect are increased by half your Proficiency Bonus. If the potion does not require a Saving throw, this ability has no effect. +1 Negative Essence.

Hey there, am enjoying your content here. Just thought I would chime in with something: I have been working on an 'Alchemist' feat type thing too, but for main game, not a ruleset like yours. But thought I would post it here, to see if you wanted to salvage any part of it for your Alchemist feat, if you like?

ALCHEMIST
Prerequisite: Proficiency with alchemists's supplies

You have spent many a long night messing around with weird mixtures and alchemical glassware, concocting potent brews with practiced efficiency, and have even got pretty good at dodging the odd explosion when things go wrong! You gain the following benefits:

When crafting chemical-based equipment (including acid, alchemist's fire, alcohol, antitoxin, ink, poison and potions of healing), you can craft items with a total market value not exceeding 25gp per day.
Poisons you craft add your proficiency bonus to the DC and the poison damage inflicted.
If you can craft potions of healing, you can also craft potions of greater healing.
If you are subjected to an area effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to reduce the damage you suffer, gain advantage on the roll.

jkat718

2015-03-06, 01:08 PM

@Bharaeth: What do DEX saves have to do with Alchemy? Dodging chemical explosions? I'd give resistance to Poison and/or immunity to the Poisoned condition.

Bharaeth

2015-03-07, 02:54 PM

@Bharaeth: What do DEX saves have to do with Alchemy? Dodging chemical explosions? I'd give resistance to Poison and/or immunity to the Poisoned condition.

Yeah, I meant it for dodging explosions of acid and fire, or random electrical discharge, or, yeah, poison. Resistance to poison doesn't really cut it for what I was trying to portray.

I think i'm going to have to scrap the 'dodging explosions' bit, as no one likes that part!

dlione

2015-05-08, 09:07 PM

Are you still looking for resource ideas, Freelance?

I'm about to run the Dragonlance Age of Mortals campaign for my group, and looking through it you can find some Flora in various regions.

Desert: Broad-leaf, Quiver-tree, Living Stones, Shimmerweed, Ashwood, Black Haw, Dragon's Claw, Eyebright, Forgeroot, Stinging Nellies, Tangleweeds.

Coastal: Grey Kelp, Bloodwrack

I think the Great Moors are Swamp biome?: Mangrove, cypress, willow, bulrush, peelfruit, mudfruit.

From Discworld MUD, which uses some real world references and includes animal parts: Angel's trumpet, belladonna, hemlock, blue lotus, white lotus, hasheesh, bird brains, blowfish poison sacs, borage, bryony, camel dung, cereus, clemetis, delphinium, foxglove, gelsemium, geranium, hellebore, laburnum, lion duct/bile, monkshood, oleander, scorpion poison sacs, skullcap, snake sacs, spider poison glands, toad skin, tyler weed, wolf heart, wormwood.

Hope this helps! Some have descriptions with them I could send you a PM of if you want them.

I was looking for a system to incorporate into my game to let people create poisons or healing remedies by gathering ingredients. This pretty much is exactly what I was looking for. The Essences makes it a lot simpler than limiting recipes to a very specific herb or animal part that I was originally grappling with.
I hope to use this in my Dragonlance game once it starts up!
Keep up the great work, this is simply amazing.

SANDYSDAD77

2015-12-14, 02:54 PM

Hey there, am enjoying your content here. Just thought I would chime in with something: I have been working on an 'Alchemist' feat type thing too, but for main game, not a ruleset like yours. But thought I would post it here, to see if you wanted to salvage any part of it for your Alchemist feat, if you like?

ALCHEMIST
Prerequisite: Proficiency with alchemists's supplies

You have spent many a long night messing around with weird mixtures and alchemical glassware, concocting potent brews with practiced efficiency, and have even got pretty good at dodging the odd explosion when things go wrong! You gain the following benefits:

When crafting chemical-based equipment (including acid, alchemist's fire, alcohol, antitoxin, ink, poison and potions of healing), you can craft items with a total market value not exceeding 25gp per day.
Poisons you craft add your proficiency bonus to the DC and the poison damage inflicted.
If you can craft potions of healing, you can also craft potions of greater healing.
If you are subjected to an area effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to reduce the damage you suffer, gain advantage on the roll.

I was just wondering if this system had been completed. It is brilliant.