Spell research/homebrew spells & class balance

[Dalebert]

Just curious how people handle new spells and how they might impact class balance. Clearly some classes were intended to have broader spell access than others. Wizards and sorcerers come to mind compared to say bards, and warlocks even further down the list of spell versatility. Clerics and druids have pretty broad access as well though with different themes of spells in mind.

That in mind, how do you handle balance issues? Let's just look at arcane for an example though the same idea applies to divine casters. A new arcane spell will usually end up on wizard/sorcerer. How one should it end up on the bard and/or warlock list? Obviously it should fit for the class first but there should also be balance in mind. Eventually, if you're making a lot of wizard spells, shouldn't you toss in a new bard or warlock spell as well? And similarly, you shouldn't make a bunch of new warlock spells without significantly expanding the other lists.

Then there's the other issue. At one point have you simply expanded spells too much and made options for casters too broad so that you're not being fair to non-casters?

[archaeo]

For what it's worth, the DMG is available starting today at WotC-partnered stores, and one of the subsections contains guidelines for homebrewing spells.

As a rule of thumb, the more homebrew content you add to your game, the more assiduously you have to guard against unbalance. A couple spells won't impact much, assuming the spells aren't grossly overpowered or let a class completely obviate the need for another. But if you begin adding a bunch of spells, you're going to warp the system. This is especially problematic for divine casters who get to pick their spells from the full list every day and for Wizards who can expand their list via their spellbooks.

Those concerned about balance would, imo, be better off making the homebrewed spell into a magic item or plot device, which removes the need for worrying over cross-class balance implications. Otherwise, I imagine most homebrewers and their tables derive a lot of their fun from tinkering with the system, and balancing on the fly shouldn't be too difficult; go wild, see what happens, and reign it in if the game stops being fun.

[S_Dalsgaard]

As I imagine most new spells in my campaign will be player creations, I don't see this as much of a problem. If a wizard creates his own spell, he probably won't share it with just anybody, so it will remain unique to him.

As a DM I have no intention of adding a lot of homebrew spells, as I don't see the need. I might make one or two for a very special NPC, but again it is probably unique to that person, so it doesn't really come into play whether it should be on other classes' lists.

If a bard is unhappy that the wizard gets lots of new homemade spells, he should just make his own.

[Ashrym]

Classes are restricted by spells known or prepared anyway. For example, sorcerers are very restricted on spells known regardless of what is available in the list and and both warlocks and bards know more than sorcerers.

If a DM is looking at adding customized spells those spells aren't automatically on any given list, including wizard/sorcerer because that isn't a shared list, and would be available based solely on DM perception of whether the class should have that spell.

Using bards as an example, healing spells, divinations, charms, and illusions are common types of spells to allow on the default bard list. Large AoE elemental damage spells not so much.

I wouldn't worry about balance between classes so much as flavor because there is generally an opportunity cost regardless, particularly with spells known vs spells learned classes. The spell just needs to be balanced with other spells of it's own spell level. Bards will add spells using magical secrets if they want it anyway.

[ghost_warlock]

Classes are restricted by spells known or prepared anyway. For example, sorcerers are very restricted on spells known regardless of what is available in the list and and both warlocks and bards know more than sorcerers.

Actually, warlocks and sorcerers end up knowing the exact same number of spells: 15. Unless you're counting cantrips, in which case sorcerers actually know two more spells than warlocks.


I wouldn't worry about balance between classes so much as flavor because there is generally an opportunity cost regardless, particularly with spells known vs spells learned classes. The spell just needs to be balanced with other spells of it's own spell level. Bards will add spells using magical secrets if they want it anyway.

Yep. Spell balance is mostly irrelevant because all it takes to expand the casting horizon is the Magic Initiate feat or a 1-level dip into a different class. And bards don't even have to resort to that.

For homebrew spells, if a spell seems appropriate for a class, I'd just give them access to it. Right now, the game could use some more variety anyway.

[Dalebert]

Yep. Spell balance is mostly irrelevant because all it takes to expand the casting horizon is the Magic Initiate feat or a 1-level dip into a different class. And bards don't even have to resort to that.

It expands it a little--for cantrips and a couple first level spells only. You're making it sound like spell access is trivial but it's clearly intended to be kind of big. The warlock spell list is quite limited, for instance, and that seems to fit the intention for the class. Bards are supposed to be jacks of all trades.

[ghost_warlock]

Meanwhile, each warlock pact and every cleric domain gives access to spells that aren't normally on their spell list and it doesn't break the game somehow.

It's really not that big of a deal. Action economy and spell slots (at low level anyway) are the legitimate balancing factors.

Edit: Also, Concentration - that's a big balancing factor.

[MaxWilson]

JThen there's the other issue. At one point have you simply expanded spells too much and made options for casters too broad so that you're not being fair to non-casters?

I'd be equally concerned about making things "unfair" for the static casters (bards, sorcs, warlocks) in favor of the dynamic casters who get to choose their spells in-play (wizards, clerics, druids). This is a major point in favor of wizards over sorcerers.

We'll see what the DMG has to say.

[ghost_warlock]

I'd be equally concerned about making things "unfair" for the static casters (bards, sorcs, warlocks) in favor of the dynamic casters who get to choose their spells in-play (wizards, clerics, druids). This is a major point in favor of wizards over sorcerers.

We'll see what the DMG has to say.

This is true to a fair extent. Clerics, druids, and wizards could all know every single spell in the game but they'd still be limited by which ones they bothered to prepare that day.

Rituals kind of break it, but they won't usually unbalance combat much because of the casting time.

Now, if one of these classes gets a feat or an ability that lets them change what spells they've prepared on the fly, we'd definitely have a problem with bards, sorcerers, and warlocks getting the short end of the stick.

[MaxWilson]

This is true to a fair extent. Clerics, druids, and wizards could all know every single spell in the game but they'd still be limited by which ones they bothered to prepare that day.

Rituals kind of break it, but they won't usually unbalance combat much because of the casting time.

Now, if one of these classes gets a feat or an ability that lets them change what spells they've prepared on the fly, we'd definitely have a problem with bards, sorcerers, and warlocks getting the short end of the stick.

I think you might be underestimating the utility of spells known-but-not-prepared. Whenever I build a wizard, allocating my two-spells-known-per-level is an agonizing decision because there is just so much good stuff out there to know. Simple example: you don't always need Web (DX-save disable) memorized but you definitely want to know it. Same thing for Mass Suggestion. If there were a mid-level Polymorph (into beasts or humanoids) I'd take that too. Choosing spells prepared is agonizing too because it's more restricted, but less agonizing because it's less permanent.

And yes, rituals are a definite factor. If Rary's Telepathic Bond and Leomund's Tiny Hut weren't in the PHB already, they would be a solid boost to whichever wizard (or warlock) managed to research them first.

[ghost_warlock]

For all practical purposes, unless they have the ritual tag, spells you know but didn't prepare do not affect play.

You may want to know web, but if you never prepare the spell it may as well not even be in your spellbook.

[MaxWilson]

For all practical purposes, unless they have the ritual tag, spells you know but didn't prepare do not affect play.

You may want to know web, but if you never prepare the spell it may as well not even be in your spellbook.

Wait, so your guys don't ever do reconnaissance? Something like, "Hey, we think there might be a dragon in the area. Swap out Disguise Self for Web."? Or "This dungeon is full of undead. Change Hypnotic Pattern to Confusion."

[Ziegander]

Classes are restricted by spells known or prepared anyway.

Unless of course you're a Cleric or Paladin. Then you "know" every spell on the Cleric or Paladin spell list.

I'm hoping that when/if they design new spells for 5e they include a disclaimer that mentions, at the very least, that these new spells are optional inclusions to a DM's game, but I would like that they also include guidelines for replacing spells from the "core" spell list with one or more new spells from a splatbook.

[ghost_warlock]

Wait, so your guys don't ever do reconnaissance? Something like, "Hey, we think there might be a dragon in the area. Swap out Disguise Self for Web."? Or "This dungeon is full of undead. Change Hypnotic Pattern to Confusion."

That's not at all what I'm saying.

[Ashrym]

Actually, warlocks and sorcerers end up knowing the exact same number of spells: 15. Unless you're counting cantrips, in which case sorcerers actually know two more spells than warlocks.

This is incorrect. Warlocks know 15 spells of levels 1 through 5 and 4 spells of levels 6 through 9 from arcanum. They can also add more in invocations (up to 27 spells known, but this is unlikely).

Edit: just a recap on spells known / prepped.

Cleric up to 35 including domains.
Druid up to 33 including land circle spells.
Warlock up to 27 including all invocations allocated for spells. Range is from 19-27 spells known.
Wizard, Moon Druid, Paladin (including oath spells) up to 25. Some wizard traditions have some additional spell like abilities.
Lore Bard 24
Valor Bard 22
Sorcerer 15
Eldritch Knight, Arcane Trickster 13
Ranger 11
Elemental Monk 5 elemental spells and a smattering in the base class.

Sorcerers are the top of the low end on spells known. The main pack tends to be from 19-25 known / prepared, with clerics and land druids being on the high end due to domains and circle spells. Most warlocks I've seen so far have 2 or 3 spell like abilities added via invocations to be used at will. Mine, for example, when tested ran with levitate, arcane eye, and alter self at will for 22 spells known.