Grappling Druid

[GoldfishBowl]

Hello all. You have no idea how helpful this forum has been to my roleplaying career over the years!. This will be the first time actually posting though.

Anyway, I'm playing a Pathfinder campaign, and the party is right now just level 4. I'm in need of a new character (R.I.P brave Cavalier) and because of some story elements I'm going to become a Druid with an affinity for Crocodiles. We plan on going to Lv20. All Paizo products are allowed, but no 3.5 or 3rd party.

So, starting off is easy enough. Druid 1, Animal Companion Crocodile.

From there, I've decided I want to make grappling work for me. I know Druid is only 3/4 on BAB, but I figgure Wild Shape will ... well, shape things up. Companion grabs and rolls, I become something with Constrict or Rake and go to town. At the moment, I've also got a Dragonhide Breastplate +1 available to me. While nice, it penalizes my movement.

I'm debating a few different ways to build though.

A) Straight Druid.
Pros: Keep my utility spellcasting healthy, no feats burned on Boon Companion or Shaping Focus to keep them up to snuff.
Cons: No special grappling goodies, I don't much like the movement penalty for wearing that Breastplate.

B) Fighter (Lore Warden) 3 dip.
Pros: Easy +2 CMB, plus a few levels of full BAB progress. Required Druid dip feats are washed by Fighter Bonus feats.
Cons: Trades off Armor training, still need a way to get back to 30 foot.

C) Brawler (Wild Child+Strangler) 3/4/5.
Pros: Brawler 3 has Maneuver Training, getting a +1 to grapple CMB and CMD. Strangler gets me some bonus damage on Grapples and pins, a nice way to avoid the negative side of grappling, and if I take it to 4 Sleeper hold seems like a fun toy. If I go 5, I get access to Hunter tricks (Sic 'em!) out of Wild Child for Mr. Chomps.
Cons: Still don't have a 30 foot move. Dipping 4/5 loses me 8th level spell access, and delays low level spell progression a lot too.
Wild Child loses me a bonus feat, but washes by not having to spend a feat on Boon Companion. Layering this has zero impact actually, just good fluff. Going 5 deep for the tricks though runs into the above problem.

D) Barbarian 1 to compliment any 3 level dip.
Pros: I get a Rage bonus to set up the grapple, then rely on my +5 to offset the fatigue penalty if I decide to stop being angry right away. Plus the Fast Movement that I've been lusting after.
Cons: I haven't found a cost effective way to ignore the fatigue. Would be nice.


Which is where I'm at. I plan on going Druid the rest of the way to the top.
Any suggestions or opinions? Something I overlooked? Alternative ways to get what I'm after?

[Abd al-Azrad]

I don't really consider a one-level dip into Barbarian to be that good. Yes, it gives you Rage - a few rounds per day of +4 Str and Con, Will saves vs. fear, and you can't cast spells during. But by far the more powerful Barbarian abilities are their Rage Powers, not the slight combat bonuses alone. The bulk of a 1-level Barbarian dip can be emulated with a Wand of Rage and a decent UMD score.

Similarly, I'm not sure the Fighter dip is worthwhile. Yes, you are gaining Lore Warden CMB bonuses and a few bonus feats. But as you note, you're also spending the two feats on keeping your Druid abilities up to par, which seems to me to be a fairly mediocre overall trade - three levels of spellcasting for +2 CMB (and a +1 increase in BAB). Again, I'd call this something you could emulate with a Heroism Wand or a few Potions. Missing out on the logarithmic progression of your caster abilities for a slight increase in your d20 rolls has every likelihood to bite you later on, when you come up against any foe that grappling just can't effectively restrict.

I feel like I get where you're coming from with this build, but to be honest I think you'd be better off with a different base class altogether. A Magus with the Maneuver Mastery Arcana and Monstrous Physique or Beast Shape will do a shapeshifting wrestler somewhat more cleanly than a mixed-class Druid. Or you could go with one of the hybrid classes, like the Bloodrager. I know high-level Druid spells aren't the very best out there, but IMO, the reason to pick up a full caster class is for the spells first, and their front-loaded melee combat abilities waaay later.

[avr]

If what you want is a grappling druid with crocodile flavor, you might consider the Crocodile domain rather than an AC.

If you keep the AC though there are a couple of feats which could help a lot. With the Animal Soul feat you can cast animal-buffing spells on yourself. Improved Spell Sharing is a teamwork feat (so your companion needs to take it as well) which allows you to buff both your druid and companion with the same spell.

Also, the Dragon Shaman archetype is compatible with either option, and despite the name it's more about crocodiles & lizards than dragons.

[GoldfishBowl]

I like that Crocodile domain, thanks! I get to maintain my pet croc fluff while not encroaching on our Hunter's role. And, I get a personal Death Roll! Wouldn't have thought to look in Domains for a 'companion' otherwise.

Thank you for the advice. I think he's going to shape up pretty decently.

[GoldfishBowl]

So, here's where I stand.



Relevant Bits

Nehir Buwaya, level 5
Brawler 3 (Strangler), Druid (Crocodile Domain) 2

Str: 19
Dex: 14
Con: 12
Int: 8
Wis: 14
Cha: 10

Alternate Racial: Toothy

Traits
Campaign: Outlander - Exile
Dirty Fighter

Feats
Imp. Unarmed
Imp. Grapple
Toughness
Weapon Focus: Grapple



Just some clarification.
Sneak Attack applies when I'm flanking, and adds damage dice to the attack. Dirty Fighter is very similar, but is a plain +1. Thanks to Strangle, I'm considered Flanking when Grappling a foe.

Assume I have a baddie grappled, and it comes to my turn. I choose to Death Roll the poor guy. I succeed on my check, and down we go. Then, since I succeeded on a grapple check while controlling, I choose to deal damage with my Bite. Being my only Natural Attack, I apply 1.5x Str Bonus here.

Totaling my damage to be: 1d8+(2d6+1)+4 Death Roll, and 1d4+(2d6+1)+6 Bite?

Should Death Roll apply Strength Bonus? I think it's intuitive, but I'm not certain.

Am I allowed to deal sneak attack damage twice like that, since they're different sources? Should the Death Roll be considered a damage bonus, dropping its own Str mod damage and making the total 1d8+1d4+(2d6+1)+6?

Additionally, when I eventually gain Sneak Attack dice from my Crocodile Domain, they would stack with Strangler's, yes?