Darkvision!!!

[SaibenLocke]

So I was just reading up in the PHB. They changed Darkvision in this edition. Darkvision is the same as far as black and white, but it says that the creature sees as if it was in Dim Light. Well if that is the case then Dim light is lightly obscured and causes you to have disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks! By that wording Drow or any other race with Light Sensitivity has disadvantage in both dark and light. Does anyone have any input on this? My DM an I just said that it doesn't apply to creatures with Darkvision.

[Shadow]

Does anyone have any input on this? My DM an I just said that it doesn't apply to creatures with Darkvision.

I like it better this way.
Without darkvision you can't see in the dark at all. Your vision is only impaired in dim light. You're effectively blind in darkness.
With darkvision you are never effectively blind, and the lighting condition which normally impairs vision doesn't affect you at all.
The trade off is that, rather than being impaired in one lighting condition and blind in one lighting condition, your vision is impaired in the two extreme lighting conditions.

Impaired in one and blind in one
--OR--
Impaired in two.
Darkvision still wins.

It's fair, and I see no reason to change it whatsoever.

[Daishain]

So I was just reading up in the PHB. They changed Darkvision in this edition. Darkvision is the same as far as black and white, but it says that the creature sees as if it was in Dim Light. Well if that is the case then Dim light is lightly obscured and causes you to have disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks! By that wording Drow or any other race with Light Sensitivity has disadvantage in both dark and light. Does anyone have any input on this? My DM an I just said that it doesn't apply to creatures with Darkvision.
If you wanted to make a bit more distinction there, you could keep the creatures who used to have low light vision in previous editions as is. The others who always had darkvision (or otherwise are born to darkness) could waive the perception disadvantage.

[SaibenLocke]

I like it better this way.
Without darkvision you can't see in the dark at all. Your vision is only impaired in dim light. You're effectively blind in darkness.
With darkvision you are never effectively blind, and the lighting condition which normally impairs vision doesn't affect you at all.
The trade off is that, rather than being impaired in one lighting condition and blind in one lighting condition, your vision is impaired in the two extreme lighting conditions.

Impaired in one and blind in one
--OR--
Impaired in two.
Darkvision still wins.

It's fair, and I see no reason to change it whatsoever.


Well Drow is effectively Blind in daylight and at disadvantage in darkness. So that's 2 negatives?

[Shadow]

Well Drow is effectively Blind in daylight and at disadvantage in darkness. So that's 2 negatives?

Are you in a pasture/field fighting at noon with no trees around?
OK, then yes, you're effectively blind. That's literally the only situation where there's nothing you can do to negate the penalty.
Oh wait.... you can cast darkness or faerie fire....
Nevermiind.

Sunlight sensitivity is nowhere NEAR as terrible as people make it out to be. It's a balancing factor in these races, and it's one that is extremely easy to negate completely.
Removing that balancing factor makes the race OP compared to other races.

[SaibenLocke]

Are you in a pasture/field fighting at noon with no trees around?
OK, then yes, you're effectively blind. That's literally the only situation where there's nothing you can do to negate the penalty.
Oh wait.... you can cast darkness or faerie fire....
Nevermiind.

Sunlight sensitivity is nowhere NEAR as terrible as people make it out to be. It's a balancing factor in these races, and it's one that is extremely easy to negate completely.
Removing that balancing factor makes the race OP compared to other races.


Yeah it is. If you read it again i think you'll be surprised. It says if you or the creature you are attacking. So no matter what you do, if you are out in the daylight you are always at disadvantage. Grant it, it does say direct sunlight. But still pretty bad.

[Shadow]

Grant it, it does say direct sunlight.

This is the key.
Get yourself and your enemy out of "direct" sunlight. Under a canopy of trees, into a building, even if it's just cloudy, whatever.
It is nowhere NEAR as huge of a handicap as people seem to think, and for those extremely few times where there is nothing you can do, you have two racial abilities which completely negate the issue entirely.
You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

Here's what it all basically boils down to:
The people that complain about sunlight sensitivity want the mechanical benefits of playing a drow without any of the drawbacks.
They all invariably claim that they love drow for the flavor, but that's a load of bull. If they really loved the drow for the flavor then they would relish the thought of sunlight sensitivity, because it is extremely flavorful.
But nope, they complain about it, so they want the mechanical benefits without any of the drawbacks.

[Scirocco]

Dungeons don't typically have direct sunlight either.

[SaibenLocke]

This is the key.
Get yourself and your enemy out of "direct" sunlight. Under a canopy of trees, into a building, even if it's just cloudy, whatever.
It is nowhere NEAR as huge of a handicap as people seem to think, and for those extremely few times where there is nothing you can do, you have two racial abilities which completely negate the issue entirely.
You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

Here's what it all basically boils down to:
The people that complain about sunlight sensitivity want the mechanical benefits of playing a drow without any of the drawbacks.
They all invariably claim that they love drow for the flavor, but that's a load of bull. If they really loved the drow for the flavor then they would relish the thought of sunlight sensitivity, because it is extremely flavorful.
But nope, they complain about it, so they want the mechanical benefits without any of the drawbacks.

Well the original post was about darkvision not Sunlight sensitivity. LOL. I personally like the deep gnome (Svirfneblin) no sunlight sensitivity there. Plus Nondetection at will :D

[RedMage125]

I like it better this way.
Without darkvision you can't see in the dark at all. Your vision is only impaired in dim light. You're effectively blind in darkness.
With darkvision you are never effectively blind, and the lighting condition which normally impairs vision doesn't affect you at all.
The trade off is that, rather than being impaired in one lighting condition and blind in one lighting condition, your vision is impaired in the two extreme lighting conditions.

Impaired in one and blind in one
--OR--
Impaired in two.
Darkvision still wins.

It's fair, and I see no reason to change it whatsoever.

I heartily agree with Shadow here.

Saiben, you're also forgetting that Dim Light is like Bright Light to a creature with Darkvision. A torch only sheds bright light for 20 feet, and Dim Light for another 20 feet. So...to a creature with Darkvision, it sheds Bright Light for 40 feet, and everything outside that is Dim Light up the range of their darkvision (and that's assuming a torch in a completely pitch-black dungeon or something).

Direct Sunlight is the ONLY time a drow is impaired. Since it's so specific, you basically have now 4 different lighting conditions.
Complete Darkness = Disadvantage on Perception checks, but not attack rolls, AND he can see further than any surface elf, dwarf, or gnome.
Dim Light = Great, it's like Bright Light to him.
Bright Light That Is Not 'Direct Sunlight'= Great, just like anyone else.
Direct Sunlight = Disadvantage on Perception checks and attack rolls

Compared to a Human:
Direct Sunlight = Fine
Bright Light = Fine
Dim Light = Disadvantage on Perception checks but not attack rolls
Darkness = Blind, auto-fails Perception checks based on sight, Disadvanatge on attack rolls, attackers get Advantage

So what it comes down to is that both races are fine in 2 conditions, and disadvantaged on perception checks (but not attack rolls) in another. In their least advantageous condition, drow only have Disadvantage on attack rolls and Perception, whilst humans FAIL Perception checks, have Disadvantage on attacks and grant Advantage to attackers.

Darkvision, even in the case of Sunlight Sensitivity, wins.

Not to mention throwing in a Darkvision-enabled race without Sunlight Sensitivity.
Elf:
Direct Sunlight = Fine
Bright Light = Fine
Dim Light = Fine
Darkness = Disadvantage on Perception checks, but no penalty to attack.