If it has stats...: Challenge #3 (Challenge over; #4 already being built!)

[Kazyan]

Belial's challenge appears to be wrapping up, so here's a new one. Here's the setup:


The immortal god-wizard Ultio generally doesn't deal with anything a non-omnipotent creature would be concerned about anymore, but he still has a few vestiges of his material existence floating around. He used to be part of an adventuring party, and one of his former companions is still around. Kind of.

Deep in Ultio's personal vault, which he has long since stopped considering important, there is a woman named Sarin. Sarin has been extensively warped, physically and mentally, and is more of an automaton than anything these days. Ultio keeps her alive out of something superficially resembling friendship, but his alien mind is too detached to understand that she's lost the will to live. She is trapped as little more than a sentimental museum piece, body unrecognizable and mentally rearranged to be optimally palatable to Ultio.

Some say that Sarin is the only reason Ultio's presence can still be felt in reality—he could easily ascend to overdeity status, but still hangs around just below that level, perhaps to take care of Sarin. At the same time, he's often too distracted to deal with the Material Plane.

Recently, some discussion among the beleaguered leaders of the nations of the Material Plane has brought up the possibility of destroying Sarin. As far as everyone knows, it would be merciful, and would get Ultio to finally leave.

But actually doing that, when Ultio is protecting her?

That's going to require optimization.

---

The objective is of this “If it has stats...” challenge is to destroy a warrior called Sarin. Sounds easy, since she's not a caster, but the problem is that there's a detached wizard-deity who still cares about her. Here's how it will work:

___1) You can enter any character, but only one at once, to enter Ultio's vault and fight Sarin. Use 32 point buy, 2/3 standard WBL, maximum hit points at first level + average hit points thereafter, and a maximum character level of 20. Animal companions and other sidecar creatures are allowed to come with you. LA buyoff is not allowed.
___2) You win if you kill Sarin. Due to handwave-related magical complications, it's really hard to bring Sarin back from the dead even with time travel shenanigans, so Ultio is just going to leave rather than raise her if you succeed.
___3) You have to avoid Ultio's notice, or he retroactively unwrites you from existence. There is basically no way to prevent this, as it is being done by an epic wizard with Divine Rank 20. His portfolio sense will ping if you use any spells or psionic powers, including any spells or powers converted into SLAs/PLAs/(Su) abilities via Archmage, Factotum, Supernatural Transformation, etc.. Using spell trigger or spell completion items counts as using a spell, and likewise for powers. Basically, you can't just throw TO buzzwords at this challenge. Also, if your fight against Sarin lasts for 20 rounds or more, one of Ultio's Ice Assassins or something notices what's going on and you lose. If you try to argue this by trying to fight Ultio directly, you're dealing with a different challenge, so I won't indulge you. Invocations are okay, by the way; they're not spells.
___4) Via the usual method of entering the vault (walking through the door), you will end up at one edge of a 200' diameter circular pit-like area, with Sarin hovering above the center. This “arena” is made of solid steel, and the walls are easily 200' high.
___5) You only get 1 week of preparation time, whatever that preparation entails. After that, Ultio gets around to noticing that you're planning to kill Sarin, and makes sure that doesn't happen.
___6) Sarin fights to the best of her ability, due to Ultio's repeated Mindrapes and other effects. All she can do is stall herself for a split second before fighting—which means you always win initiative. This is to simplify things.
___7) Sarin's abilities are all RAW, but the combination of them is homebrew. I made a monster, not a character. Also, if you haven't picked this up yet, you're going to be fighting a fighter-type character, not a caster.
___8) Sarin doesn't have arbitrarily high numbers. Some of her numbers are indeed alarmingly high, but as far as I know, only one of them is higher than the corresponding highest number in the ELH.
___9) If you give me an incomplete character, I'm going to assume you didn't optimize anything you didn't list.
___10) The bragging rights for this challenge may be smaller than those of the other two, if I made a bunch of oversights. This is probably the easiest “If it has stats...” so far, but then, I don't know how to estimate my own challenge, so we'll see how it goes.


BRAGGING RIGHTS
ben-zayb: Victory via Imp of Cania and Lightning Thief tricks used in conjunction, along with tactical use of incorporeality.
Dire Stirge: Victory via contacting Pazuzu on the Ethereal Plane and wishing for a Sphere of Annihilation into Sarin's square.
AvatarVecna: Victory via sneaking up and then throwing a 200-ton magical bowling ball made of adamantine.
Uncle Pine: Victory via unzipping a CR 100+ templated elephant and turning it loose

[AvatarVecna]

Noncaster, huh? I think I've got a build in mind. Gimme some time...

EDIT: Is there any information about Sarin that could be discovered by those seeking to assist her in the suicide she so desperately wishes she could muster the will to commit?

[ben-zayb]

Would Ultio instantly erase everyone who cast a spell/SLA/su?
Is this 3.5e only, or is 3.0e included?
By "preparation time", do you mean preparation to specifically combat Sarin or preparation in general (like a necromancer creating his undead army)?
I'll start with the easiest. What will ~+200000 (if former ^ option) or +NI (if latter ^ option) skill checks (all) do to find information on Sarin and/or Ultio?

[Auron3991]

Does wondrous item usage or magic weapons ping his deity sense?

[Uncle Pine]

1st attempt: Is Sarin either immune to drowning or doesn't need to breathe? If not a standard 1st level chicken infested Commoner can fill the whole arena world with chickens with a (rather high number of) free action(s).

EDIT: Also, how large is the arena door? Can we assume it's large enough for any character we come up with and his equipment to pass through?

[Inevitability]

Character: Bob the farmer.
Class: Commoner 1
Race: Half-elf
Feats: Magical Training
Flaws: None!
Traits: None!
Ability scores: Bob has a 10 in every ability score.
Skill points: 4 ranks in Profession (farmer), 4 ranks in profession (rulebreaker).
Money: Bob rolled low on money. He only has 30 GP. More than sufficient for our purposes, though.
Equipment: One (1) Spell Component Pouch
Not really important, but let's go with...

0th-level
-Flare
-Touch of Fatigue
-Resistance

Yeah, I know what you're thinking...

Bob reaches into his spell component pouch and, to his surprise, finds a small pouch. He takes it out, and reaches in again. Again, he finds a small pouch.

After some continued pouch-pulling, Bob has gathered 25 of them. However, unbeknowst to our commoner, those are all Everful Pouches (because of Apocalypse from the Sky, this is possible). Bob puts a coin in all of them, and the next morning they are filled with 625 GP. Bob creates some more pouches, fills them all with a single coin, and the next morning he has 15.625 GP.

This continues for some time. At the end of the preparation week, Bob has gathered 257 GP, or 6103515625 from the pouches, and 7 GP from his take-10 profession check. (what?)

Bob then buys a warbeast dire bat, which costs him 400 GP. He also puts on 5 Talismans of the Sphere (spell component pouch).

Our brave commoner then enters the deep dark room, AND THE BATTLE TO THE DEATH BEGINS!

Round 1.
Bob wins initiative. He lets his dire bat go first.
Dire bat Runs 200 ft. in a straight line to Sarin.
Bob looks into his pouch, and sees a a terrible, horrible... Sphere of Annihilation!
Bob sens the sphere straight towards Saris, automatically succeeding on his check to control the sphere as his modifier is +32. Bye bye, not-so-immortal warrior girl!

Bob then spends the remainder of his life in wealth, having become the richest person in existence. He goes on to abuse all rules in existence, takes wizard levels, becomes a second Ultio and keeps his dire bat mount prisoner for all of eternity. That is, until some bloke decides to kill it. :smalltongue:


Bob instead buys a Well of Many Worlds and drops the sphere in there. As per Elder Evils, this creates a black hole which destroys all of reality. Still a win, right?

[Kazyan]

EDIT: Is there any information about Sarin that could be discovered by those seeking to assist her in the suicide she so desperately wishes she could muster the will to commit?

Gather Information check or some form of Knowledge check, please.



Would Ultio instantly erase everyone who cast a spell/SLA/su?
Is this 3.5e only, or is 3.0e included?
By "preparation time", do you mean preparation to specifically combat Sarin or preparation in general (like a necromancer creating his undead army)?
I'll start with the easiest. What will ~+200000 (if former ^ option) or +NI (if latter ^ option) skill checks (all) do to find information on Sarin and/or Ultio?



He does not instantly erase anyone who does that, as that implies that he causally reacts to your spell. Rather, this timeline is basically aborted. To clarify, you can still use SLAs and (Su) abilities provided you did not arrive at them by converting a spell into them.
3.0e is allowed.
Prep time in general--otherwise the restriction is rather meaningless.
Explain how you're getting those modifiers, please. I think I know the generalities, but in this challenge, you must explain your methods.



Does wondrous item usage or magic weapons ping his deity sense?

If the wondrous item is a spell completion or spell trigger item, and you use that function of it, yes. And before you try it, I'm not counting Custom Items as RAW; they are guidelines. Magic weapons are fine.


1st attempt: Is Sarin either immune to drowning or doesn't need to breathe? If not a standard 1st level chicken infested Commoner can fill the whole arena world with chickens with a (rather high number of) free action(s).

EDIT: Also, how large is the arena door? Can we assume it's large enough for any character we come up with and his equipment to pass through?

If your character needs equipment larger than a Colossal-ish door, they probably don't need a door in the first place, so yes, any character and luggage size is allowed within WBL and such.

You see what looks almost like an ordinary—if alarmingly underweight—human woman in a flowing white kimono, hovering 60 feet above the ground, staring blankly with the expression of someone who lost all hope decades ago. Her straight gray hair descends well past her feet, and is emphemerally bundled together, wispy tendrils of itself writhing in circles.

You fill the arena with chickens.

Not much seems to be happening, besides the squawking and, oh yeah, you getting crushed under tons and tons of poultry.

Ultio's presence does not leave the Material Plane.


Character: Bob the farmer.

A more-or-less complete entry! I like. However, if Spell Component Pouches contain artifacts, they contain artifacts. Such items do not just mysteriously appear at the user's desire--causality applies, as per the "works like reality unless stated otherwise" clause of the rules (yes, I just had to give a rules citation for causality), so the Sphere was in there beforehand. This plan hinges on the Sphere not being there until it's convenient, which is the reason Bob can walk around and do his preparation without getting clotheslined by the Sphere. Try something that makes ontological sense.

[Inevitability]

A more-or-less complete entry! I like. However, if Spell Component Pouches contain artifacts, they contain artifacts. Such items do not just mysteriously appear at the user's desire--causality applies, as per the "works like reality unless stated otherwise" clause of the rules (yes, I just had to give a rules citation for causality), so the Sphere was in there beforehand. This plan hinges on the Sphere not being there until it's convenient, which is the reason Bob can walk around and do his preparation without getting clotheslined by the Sphere. Try something that makes ontological sense.

Allow me to correct you here. You state:


Such items do not just mysteriously appear at the user's desire

However, lets try the following things with a spell component pouch (spoilered):

1. Take a spell component pouch Bring the pouch into a room with a temperature of -40 degrees. Leave it in there for a year. Return after a year, pick up the pouch and try to cast Tenser's Floating Disk. This should work. However, the spell requires a drop of mercury, which would have frozen if it spends a year in a freezing room.

2. Take a spell component pouch. Take out a random object and give it to a friend. Repeat. Eventually, the pile of stuff your friend is holding should be bigger than the pouch itself.

3. Craft a Spell Component Pouch. I am assuming, for the sake of logic and general SCP-availability, that you do not need any artifacts to create this. Now attempt to pull out an artifact. You succeed.


Conclusion: Spell Component Pouches do, in fact, magically make items appear at the user's desire.

[Kazyan]

Good point. Let's take a look at the RAW of a spell component pouch, then.


A spellcaster with a spell component pouch is assumed to have all the material components and focuses needed for spellcasting, except for those components that have a specific cost, divine focuses, and focuses that wouldn’t fit in a pouch.

"Assumed to have" is grammatically dependent on "spellcaster with a spell component pouch", so you have the equipment when you, as a spellcaster, have the component pouch.

But looking at the picture of a spell component pouch in the PHB, it is clear that a 2-foot diameter Sphere of Annihilation does not fit in a pouch in the first place.

[Heliomance]

I'm thinking Incarnum might bea good way to go here.

[Crake]

Well, I suppose since it seems like it's supposed to be a mundane challenge, I propose a level 19 warblade/level 1 barbarian with time stands still, pouncing charge, a +5 valorous brilliant energy weapon, to ignore any non-organic armor.

Have leap attack and shock trooper, along with a belt of battle, and an item of fly. Spend first round charging and get 3 full power attack full attacks off, with the penalties going to AC instead of attack bonus. Hope I hit and deal enough damage to kill Sarin.

18 points into str, half orc for +2 str, +4 rage, +5 from an inherent book, +5 from levelup, +6 from item for a total of 40 strength. +15 modifier, +5 weapon and +20 bab makes +40 to hit on each first attack of each full attack, for 2d6(greatsword)+5 (weapon)+22(1.5xstr)+60 (leap attack power attack) all doubled for valorous for a total of 4d6+174 per attack over 12 attacks.

Probably not going to work, but I tried :smallredface:

[atemu1234]

I'm thinking Incarnum might bea good way to go here.

I now crave a Totemist build.

[Kazyan]

Well, I suppose since it seems like it's supposed to be a mundane challenge, I propose a level 19 warblade/level 1 barbarian with time stands still, pouncing charge, a +5 valorous brilliant energy weapon, to ignore any non-organic armor.

Have leap attack and shock trooper, along with a belt of battle, and an item of fly. Spend first round charging and get 3 full power attack full attacks off, with the penalties going to AC instead of attack bonus. Hope I hit and deal enough damage to kill Sarin.

18 points into str, half orc for +2 str, +4 rage, +5 from an inherent book, +5 from levelup, +6 from item for a total of 40 strength. +15 modifier, +5 weapon and +20 bab makes +40 to hit on each first attack of each full attack, for 2d6(greatsword)+5 (weapon)+22(1.5xstr)+60 (leap attack power attack) all doubled for valorous for a total of 4d6+174 per attack over 12 attacks.

Probably not going to work, but I tried :smallredface:

You enter the arena and fly up to Sarin, and proceed to wail on her with your sword.

Sarin masterfully dodges most of your attacks instead of standing still for you, but you get two lucky strikes that she can't find a way to dodge, only twist most of the way out of range of the force. You hit, and blood flows from the rapidly-closing wound. Your second lucky attack, however, passes right through her.

You rolled two Natural 20s and one of them got through the miss chance. Do you have anything else you'd like to do before ending your turn?

[Crake]

You enter the arena and fly up to Sarin, and proceed to wail on her with your sword.

Sarin masterfully dodges most of your attacks instead of standing still for you, but you get two lucky strikes that she can't find a way to dodge, only twist most of the way out of range of the force. You hit, and blood flows from the rapidly-closing wound. Your second lucky attack, however, passes right through her.

You rolled two Natural 20s and one of them got through the miss chance. Do you have anything else you'd like to do before ending your turn?

damn, I guess nothing, should have gotten myself a scout's headband for miss chances, but i totally forgot about that.

[torrasque666]

Is LA Buyoff Allowed?

[Kazyan]

damn, I guess nothing, should have gotten myself a scout's headband for miss chances, but i totally forgot about that.

Sarin's writhing hair curls and reaches out to you, passing through whatever armor you may be wearing.

She hits, since you didn't optimize AC. You take 39 Charisma damage and I won't bother telling you what else.


Is LA Buyoff Allowed?

No, per the OP.

[Inevitability]

But looking at the picture of a spell component pouch in the PHB, it is clear that a 2-foot diameter Sphere of Annihilation does not fit in a pouch in the first place.

OBJECTION!

A size for the SCP is given nowhere, so who are we to assume we know its size? It might as well be as big as a backpack. And crafting a SCP of Large size should definitely be possible. Or just sew several together. I do have nigh-infinite money, after all.

[Kazyan]

OBJECTION!

A size for the SCP is given nowhere, so who are we to assume we know its size? It might as well be as big as a backpack. And crafting a SCP of Large size should definitely be possible. Or just sew several together. I do have nigh-infinite money, after all.

While the idea of undefined RAW defaulting to what is most advantageous to you makes me scratch my head, I think getting a specifically Large pouch is valid. But you still have the problem that I mentioned in the sentence before the one you quoted.

[ninjamaster1991]

I have a very simple plan:

1) Truenamer 20

If you can't kill/disable her with a week's worth of Gates, you fail optimizing forever.

If you need a few hints:
Zodars have Wish. Wish undoes Mindrape. Re-Mindraping someone is generally harder than bringing them back to life.
Adventurers on other planes are [Extraplanar].
Many dieties would be willing to lend you a few servants to eliminate a powerful wizard and potential comperitor.
Your own survival isn't one of the requirements. Ia! Ia! Cthulhu Fthagn!

[Crake]

Hmm... so needing a natural 20 to hit, AC is pretty high, even against a brilliant weapon, Also didn't seem flat footed despite losing initiative.... Will also be wanting a scout's headband (assuming that doesn't qualify as a spell trigger/completiton item) to ignore illusory based miss chance. Planar touchstone pleasure domain should allow me to be immune to cha damage/drain as well.... But still need to work on a way to up that attack bonus

[Extra Anchovies]

Good point. Let's take a look at the RAW of a spell component pouch, then.


A spellcaster with a spell component pouch is assumed to have all the material components and focuses needed for spellcasting, except for those components that have a specific cost, divine focuses, and focuses that wouldn’t fit in a pouch.

"Assumed to have" is grammatically dependent on "spellcaster with a spell component pouch", so you have the equipment when you, as a spellcaster, have the component pouch.

But looking at the picture of a spell component pouch in the PHB, it is clear that a 2-foot diameter Sphere of Annihilation does not fit in a pouch in the first place.

Of note is the fact that the list of component-pouch-contents exceptions should be parsed as three separate items:
Components that have a specific cost do not appear in the pouch by default.
Divine focuses do not appear in the pouch by default.
Focuses that wouldn't fit in a pouch do not appear in the pouch by default.
Thus, if we can find a spell that has a SoA as a component, we're good. However, I don't think that exists.

Also, I like this Challenge more than any of the others I've seen. Most of the time it devolves into naming TO buzzwords and saying "Ice Assassin" over and over. This one is different:smallamused:

[ben-zayb]

Explain how you're getting those modifiers, please. I think I know the generalities, but in this challenge, you must explain your methods.Be a devil and nab both the Mark of Cania(FC2) feat and a recoverable Moment of Perfect Mind maneuver. Get some at will Will-negates ability (maybe binder 1? warlock 6? template? Imp's Invisibility SLA? whatever) and use it with MoPM (no autofail) on one round, and then recovers the maneuver on another. Basically +1 to damage, attack, saves, and checks, as well as -1 to AC, per 2 or 5 rounds.

So...what information do I get with +200000 to Gather Info / Knowledge (all) / etc. checks in preparation, and free-action/non-action Spot / Listen / Sense Motive / Knowledge (all) / etc. during the fight proper? Also, are epic skill checks on?

Imp Truenamer 1 / Warblade 1
Utterance: Word of Nurturing, Lesser
Maneuver: Moment of Perfect Mind, Action Before Thought, Sudden Leap, Hunter's Sense

Plan: utter Lesser Word of Nurturing for 1d6+200000 damage, Truespeak check +200000 (+rank, +Int bonus, etc.)
Defenses: no save, no attack, no SR (no turning), but I'm not sure if it autobypasses ethereal/incorporeal if that matters

[JustIgnoreMe]

Also, I like this Challenge more than any of the others I've seen. Most of the time it devolves into naming TO buzzwords and saying "Ice Assassin" over and over. This one is different:smallamused:
Agreed, I think this one has real potential. A sensible set-up, clear parameters, and not a World-Ender that necessitates Aleax/Ice Assassin/Manipulate Form shenanigans.

This has the potential to be another Stuffy Doll, but for martials.

[Kazyan]

Be a devil and nab both the Mark of Cania(FC2) feat and a recoverable Moment of Perfect Mind maneuver. Get some at will Will-negates ability (maybe binder 1? warlock 6? template? Imp's Invisibility SLA? whatever) and use it with MoPM (no autofail) on one round, and then recovers the maneuver on another. Basically +1 to damage, attack, saves, and checks, as well as -1 to AC, per 2 or 5 rounds.

So...what information do I get with +200000 to Gather Info / Knowledge (all) / etc. checks in preparation, and free-action/non-action Spot / Listen / Sense Motive / Knowledge (all) / etc. during the fight proper? Also, are epic skill checks on?

Imp Truenamer 1 / Warblade 1
Utterance: Word of Nurturing, Lesser
Maneuver: Moment of Perfect Mind, Action Before Thought, Sudden Leap, Hunter's Sense

Plan: utter Lesser Word of Nurturing for 1d6+200000 damage, Truespeak check +200000 (+rank, +Int bonus, etc.)
Defenses: no save, no attack, no SR (no turning), but I'm not sure if it autobypasses ethereal/incorporeal if that matters


I probably shouldn't allow Invisibility as an SLA due to Ultio's portfolio, but I will anyway, and just patch that loophole later. As for Ethereal/Incorporeal, I think resolving it would work like using a spell. Epic skill checks are in play.

You enter the vault look up at Sarin, and immediately see through her facade of "normal woman in white kimono". Instead, you see a humanoid creature that may have once been a woman of some human-sized race, judging by the remains of her figure. Terribly emaciated—reminding you of some sort of undead—and with a blotchy blue tint all over her skin, she wears a ratty old black nightgown. A ruby pendant hangs from her neck, and a silver-etched gold ring wraps around one finger. Long-subsided magical runes are tattooed in white and blue all over her translucent form.

From what you've studied beforehand, you know Sarin is some sort of native outsider. She does not have any true regeneration capabilities. You know all about her history before Ultio made her into a museum piece and the fact that so many magical experiments have been wrought upon her--although, since Ultio kept the details secret, there's no way for even an Imp of Cania to know exactly what he did. From her history, you know she was a finesse-based fighter with utter mastery of unarmed strike-based attack forms, and was difficult for combatants to actually keep her pinned down.

(If you would like to know more, ask for specifics, please, since I'm having a hard time coming up with what would be knowable.)

In person, Sarin is utterly silent even to your ears. Getting a judge of what she is thinking, you imagine that she is about to defend herself, but in the back of her mind, she's hoping that you'll be the one to finish this. Judging her more closely, you imagine that the amount of onyx needed to animate her corpse--of you could make her into a corpse--would be 48 times that needed for an ordinary commoner. She doesn't know how to use the draw-strike-sheathe technique from Rokugan, and she'd be fearsome with her unarmed strikes. (+104 to hit, +39 damage bonus.) Her soul would probably go to the Outlands if she died.

You utter your Truespeech, but nothing seems to happen, even though you're sure you pronounced the language correctly.

In response, Sarin flies adjacent to you and tags you with her hair. (You take 38 Charisma damage, and some other stuff that doesn't matter.)

[Extra Anchovies]

I probably shouldn't allow Invisibility as an SLA due to Ultio's portfolio, but I will anyway, and just patch that loophole later. As for Ethereal/Incorporeal, I think resolving it would work like using a spell. Epic skill checks are in play.

You enter the vault look up at Sarin, and immediately see through her facade of "normal woman in white kimono". Instead, you see a humanoid creature that may have once been a woman of some human-sized race, judging by the remains of her figure. Terribly emaciated—reminding you of some sort of undead—and with a blotchy blue tint all over her skin, she wears a ratty old black nightgown. A ruby pendant hangs from her neck, and a silver-etched gold ring wraps around one finger. Long-subsided magical runes are tattooed in white and blue all over her translucent form.

From what you've studied beforehand, you know Sarin is some sort of native outsider. She does not have any true regeneration capabilities. You know all about her history before Ultio made her into a museum piece and the fact that so many magical experiments have been wrought upon her--although, since Ultio kept the details secret, there's no way for even an Imp of Cania to know exactly what he did. From her history, you know she was a finesse-based fighter with utter mastery of unarmed strike-based attack forms, and was difficult for combatants to actually keep her pinned down.

(If you would like to know more, ask for specifics, please, since I'm having a hard time coming up with what would be knowable.)

In person, Sarin is utterly silent even to your ears. Getting a judge of what she is thinking, you imagine that she is about to defend herself, but in the back of her mind, she's hoping that you'll be the one to finish this. Judging her more closely, you imagine that the amount of onyx needed to animate her corpse--of you could make her into a corpse--would be 48 times that needed for an ordinary commoner. She doesn't know how to use the draw-strike-sheathe technique from Rokugan, and she'd be fearsome with her unarmed strikes. (+104 to hit, +39 damage bonus.) Her soul would probably go to the Outlands if she died.

You utter your Truespeech, but nothing seems to happen, even though you're sure you pronounced the language correctly.

In response, Sarin flies adjacent to you and tags you with her hair. (You take 38 Charisma damage, and some other stuff that doesn't matter.)

Okay so.

1. Native outsider, possibly derived from a class capstone. Not Monk 20, though, because they get the extraplanar subtype for some reason.
2. 48 HD. This is a very good thing to know.
3. Potential magic items: Nightgown, ruby pendant, silver-etched gold ring, (magic/psionic tattoos?). If I interpreted OP's posts correctly, custom items aren't RAW; this means (hopefully) that Sarin only has items that appear in books.
4. Touch attacks (delivered via hair) deal Charisma damage, and enough so that the Cha damage is probably derived from a CL-variable spell effect.
5. Capable of (probably magical) flight.

[SowZ]

I would make a Lion Totem Barbarian 1/DungeonCrasher 6/Exotic Weapon Master 1/Frenzied Beserker 10/X 1 (where X is an initiator class to get Mountain Hammer)/Binder 1. Bind Aym for double damage on Sunder. Orc/Half-Minotaur with 18 base Str, +9 Race, +4 levels, +5 Inh., +10 Rage, +6 Belt, for 50 Strength. I wear riding boots. I wield a Maul of the Titans. As for feats: Leap Attack, Battlejump, Power Lunge, Destructive Rage, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Greater Powerful Charge, Fast Rider. Other pre-req feats. Pick the fastest mount in the game. Give her various items to increase speed. I can specify if you'd like (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=26), but it would save time if we could assume 'really fast.' Wear Rhino Hide. Get Enlarge Person Permanancied.

Let me know if I'm allowed to get a mage to cast a spell/enhance my weapon to add Valorous/Sizing. Swing my Greatclub as Colossal. The penalties don't matter to me.

240 from Power Attack since I double my power attack bonus twice.
40 damage from my Str.
40 damage from Power Lunge.
30 dmg. on average from the weapon itself.
+8 from Destructive rage.
+10 from DungeonCrasher
7 dmg from Rhino Hide.
11 dmg from Powerful Charge.

x2 from Battlejump and possibly from Valorous. x3 from my Weapon. damagex4 from Spirited Charge.

In one round and with no magic, I can deal over 74,000 damage to inanimate objects in four attacks whilst completely ignoring DR and Hardness. My plan is simple, as befits my simple Barbarian. Get atop my awesome mount, sprint through the dungeon. When I enter the chamber, my mount jumps over the pit. I win initiative, but I don't attack her. Presumably, she has ways to avoid damage. I swing my massive club anyway. Four attacks at 18,528 damage a piece. One directed at each of the four walls, (North, East, South, West.) I completely ignore DR and Hardness, remember. It should be more than enough to completely collapse the walls unless there are extenuating circumstances. If you are generous with the supreme cleave ability, I will actually swing a full 360 through the walls in one swing and I can do that four times. But that seems excessive and is not the best reading of RAW, in my opinon.

Max cross class ranks in Architecture and Engineering/Magic Items to maximize this skill to know where best to hit to decrease structural integrity.

The 200 foot tall chamber should fall on both of us, I imagine, crushing us for thousands upon thousands of damage.

I'm dead as soon as my rage ends, (or perhaps being flattened bypasses my deathless rage ability,) but if I can do anything else before I die it will likely be to just grapple with the woman and make sure we are turned into the same pile of goo. That way, if he tries to cast Resurrection from the corpse, there's a 50% chance I get raised instead. You said that won't happen, but my Orc doesn't know that.

Anyway, there you go. Does it work?

[Kazyan]

Valorous/Sizing is kosher. It's just WBL.

You enter the vault, basically ignore Sarin, and cause what amounts to a 4.0-ish earthquake in the surrounding land by obliterating the vault's structure. Shortly thereafter, in the rubble of the vault, you and your unspecified steed die.

This gets Ultio's attention after a minute or so, and the vault is repaired over the course of an hour.

Checking for Ultio's meddling thereafter reveals that he's still around...

Creative, but no cigar, unfortunately.

[SowZ]

Valorous/Sizing is kosher. It's just WBL.

You enter the vault, basically ignore Sarin, and cause what amounts to a 4.0-ish earthquake in the surrounding land by obliterating the vault's structure. Shortly thereafter, in the rubble of the vault, you and your unspecified steed die.

This gets Ultio's attention after a minute or so, and the vault is repaired over the course of an hour.

Checking for Ultio's meddling thereafter reveals that he's still around...

Creative, but no cigar, unfortunately.

Ahh, all right. Worth a try. I'll come back if I think of something else. If nothing else, I may just throw the moon at the world and destroy the whole dang planet. Though that may not work, either.

[Vaz]

Q; How much preparation time are we allowed?

[SowZ]

Q; How much preparation time are we allowed?

It says one week. See detail 5 in the OP.

[ben-zayb]

If @anyone else have better questions (definitely not a tall order coming from me) that can be answered by observing or gathering info on Sarin, consider this as one of those opportunities to do so.
Is her hair making an Unarmed Strike, or is it some other special attack?
Does she exhibit other physical characteristics, traits, or feature that hints of being, having been, of a different type, or of possessing a particular subtype? (e.g Augmented <type>, etc)
Does she appear to have rituals, or grafts, (e.g. Savage Species) performed on her? Anything in particular?
Does she appear to have any symbionts?
Does she look ephemeral/translucent? (i.e. signs of Incorporeality or Etherealness)
What do I get from free/nonaction Spot/Listen/Knowledge(all)/Psicraft/etc. checks, if it matters, on all of her apparels?
What do I get from free/nonaction ^ skill checks, if it matters, on her tattoos?
Same build as before, except for the following:

add enough template/classes to to meet any WBL requirements below
add Leadership (cohort is basically the same character, except NPC and 1 less HD)
add via Chaos Shuffle (Ghostly Grasp on both, and Mindsight on PC)
add Ritual of Transfiguration on both to become Incorporeal (x2 300k+ gold, +2 LA)
add Ring of X-Ray Vision and Artificer's Monocle on both (x2 26.5k gold)
buy ranks in relevant Train-Only skills on both (like Spellcraft, Truespeak, etc.)


Plan:
1. Block LoE/LoS by being inside the arena walls and floors coupled with "<full-round action> and run" tactics (i.e. by entering/exiting the arena via Epic Sleight of Hand shuffle to go as far as NI feet away every time)
2. One of us rushes <telepathy> Diplomancy; if it works, ask/telepathize for all weakness and defenses (talking is a free action)
3. One of us uses Epic Appraise coupled with Identify using Artificer's Monocle on all items
4. barring any revelation of weaknesses or defenses, both will spend the rest of their remaining time spamming lesser Word of Nurturing for the rest of the fight coupled with hit-and-run tactics (if this last part fails, I'd probably have to stat out more about the class choice to get better abilities that could bypass whatever that defense is)

From the description she seems to have undead and outsider connection, plus another type which seems to be the normal type for her physical look. I'm guessing some Unholy Scion Lich-Fiend, but that's just me.:smalltongue:

[Hamste]

What are the stats of a chicken in this world?

[Kazyan]

Is her hair making an Unarmed Strike, or is it some other special attack?
Does she exhibit other physical characteristics, traits, or feature that hints of being, having been, of a different type, or of possessing a particular subtype? (e.g Augmented <type>, etc)
Does she appear to have rituals, or grafts, (e.g. Savage Species) performed on her? Anything in particular?
Does she appear to have any symbionts?
Does she look ephemeral/translucent? (i.e. signs of Incorporeality or Etherealness)
What do I get from free/nonaction Spot/Listen/Knowledge(all)/Psicraft/etc. checks, if it matters, on all of her apparels?
What do I get from free/nonaction ^ skill checks, if it matters, on her tattoos?


She uses her hair in a decidedly non-martial-arts way.
Sarin looks like a modified form of humanoid. She's probably not undead--you were just reminded of undeath because of how malnourished she appears.
???
???
Yes.
I don't think any of those can identify her apparel, but you can tell her nightgown is worthless except as a trophy via Appraise.
Any magic the tattoos had has definitely expired by now, and they are worn down, but you can get the general idea of "make everything better" from them. Perhaps when they were made, they applied a make-everything-better template?



Same build as before, except for the following:

add enough template/classes to to meet any WBL requirements below
add Leadership (cohort is basically the same character, except NPC and 1 less HD)
add via Chaos Shuffle (Ghostly Grasp on both, and Mindsight on you)
add Ritual of Transfiguration on both to become Incorporeal (x2 300k+ gold, +2 LA)
add Ring of X-Ray Vision and Artificer's Monocle on both (x2 26.5k gold)
buy ranks in relevant Train-Only skills on both (like Spellcraft, Truespeak, etc.)


Plan:
1. Block LoE/LoS by being inside the arena walls and floors coupled with "<full-round action> and run" tactics (i.e. by entering/exiting the arena via Epic Sleight of Hand shuffle to go as far as NI feet away every time)
2. One of us rushes <telepathy> Diplomancy; if it works, ask/telepathize for all weakness and defenses (talking is a free action)
3. One of us uses Epic Appraise coupled with Identify using Artificer's Monocle on all items
4. barring any revelation of weaknesses or defenses, both will spend the rest of their remaining time spamming lesser Word of Nurturing for the rest of the fight coupled with hit-and-run tactics (if this last part fails, I'd probably have to stat out more about the class choice to get better abilities that could bypass whatever that defense is)

You perform a Lightning Thief motion into the arena.

You telepathically try to talk down Sarin. She is totally unreasonable, as if mentally controlled, but you get an undercurrent of egging you on in the telepathy.

Your ally starts trying to identify the items. Appraisal suggests that the ring is an abjuration, and the pendant is an evocation. (The school is absent from the pendant's rules AFAIK, but I'm using those of an approximation.) The nightgown is nonmagical and apparently just for modesty. Since identification requires 1 minute, you can't do it within six seconds.

You and your ally dart in and out, and the above actions span your first turn. (Rushed diplomacy is a full-round action, and you're spending at least a round to start the Identify.) When you come back for your second turn, you notice Sarin's very powerful mind (Int 28) just above where the door is--like she's waiting for you to come through the door. You can determine her exact location even though you're in the wall, due to your Marks of Cania--5 feet into the top of the doorframe, occupying the same space as some of the vault metal. If you were walking in without Mindsight, you wouldn't see her. Her repositioning may change your immediate strategy. How do you proceed?

EDIT: Forgot about the Ring of X-ray vision. You can see her normally, too. Actually, I don't think it penetrates further than Mindsight.


What are the stats of a chicken in this world?

Those of a raven.

[ben-zayb]

???
???
Minor/Major Rituals are in savage species, I think. Grafts are in many books (MoE, FoE, RotD, LoM, FF, SK, LM). Not sure if they can be identified, though. (And I guess there are none since you didn't get it the first time).
You perform a Lightning Thief motion into the arena.

You telepathically try to talk down Sarin. She is totally unreasonable, as if mentally controlled, but you get an undercurrent of egging you on in the telepathy.

Your ally starts trying to identify the items. Appraisal suggests that the ring is an abjuration, and the pendant is an evocation. (The school is absent from the pendant's rules AFAIK, but I'm using those of an approximation.) The nightgown is nonmagical and apparently just for modesty. Since identification requires 1 minute, you can't do it within six seconds.

You and your ally dart in and out, and the above actions span your first turn. (Rushed diplomacy is a full-round action, and you're spending at least a round to start the Identify.) When you come back for your second turn, you notice Sarin's very powerful mind (Int 28) just above where the door is--like she's waiting for you to come through the door. You can determine her exact location even though you're in the wall, due to your Marks of Cania--5 feet into the top of the doorframe, occupying the same space as some of the vault metal. If you were walking in without Mindsight, you wouldn't see her. Her repositioning may change your immediate strategy. How do you proceed?EDIT: Forgot about the Ring of X-ray vision. You can see her normally, too. Actually, I don't think it penetrates further than Mindsight.@re X-Ray Vision: it can pierce up to 1-in. of "common metal"

Hmm... so likely either Incorporeal only or Ethereal. Simple Incorporeality has size-based limits on how deep it can submerge through material surfaces, though.

Questions:
1. How big is this entrance/door anyway, and is it always open? And how thick are the walls?
2. Did I get this right: I detect her as being inside the walls directly 5ft-deep above the top of the door frame?

If the second one is true, then does that mean that she can simply hide within solid surfaces until the time runs out? That means barring destroying every solid particle within her range, or having the ability to hit her despite LoE blockage (Burrowing Power?), she'd likely autowin.

[AvatarVecna]

Ahh, all right. Worth a try. I'll come back if I think of something else. If nothing else, I may just throw the moon at the world and destroy the whole dang planet. Though that may not work, either.

I'm already working on such a build myself, although I'm probably gonna keep it vaguely within reason. Well, sort of. I'm already investigating some abuses besides pure damage. Speaking which, I have questions!

1) Are we allowed to use 3.0 sources, provided they haven't been updated?

2) Are we allowed to use Dragon Magazine?

3) Do buff spells cast on us by others trigger Ultio's portfolio sense and bring his wrath down upon us?

[Kazyan]

Minor/Major Rituals are in savage species, I think. Grafts are in many books (MoE, FoE, RotD, LoM, FF, SK, LM). Not sure if they can be identified, though. (And I guess there are none since you didn't get it the first time).@re X-Ray Vision: it can pierce up to 1-in. of "common metal"

Hmm... so likely either Incorporeal only or Ethereal. Simple Incorporeality has size-based limits on how deep it can submerge through material surfaces, though.

Questions:
1. How big is this entrance/door anyway, and is it always open? And how thick are the walls?
2. Did I get this right: I detect her as being inside the walls directly 5ft-deep above the top of the door frame?

If the second one is true, then does that mean that she can simply hide within solid surfaces until the time runs out? That means barring destroying every solid particle within her range, or having the ability to hit her despite LoE blockage (Burrowing Power?), she'd likely autowin.

I know what the two things you mentioned are, but I don't think there's any way to tell.

The door is Colossal. It is always open. The walls are...let's say 20 feet of metal.

You think on her motives. She's probably only doing this to try to catch you unaware--chances are, she doesn't know you have Mindsight, and is planning to emerge and attack you from very temporary "hiding". Being smothered by metal is unpleasant, after all.

EDIT:


I'm already working on such a build myself, although I'm probably gonna keep it vaguely within reason. Well, sort of. I'm already investigating some abuses besides pure damage. Speaking which, I have questions!

1) Are we allowed to use 3.0 sources, provided they haven't been updated?

2) Are we allowed to use Dragon Magazine?

3) Do buff spells cast on us by others trigger Ultio's portfolio sense and bring his wrath down upon us?

3.0 is fine. Dragon Compendium is fine, but external Dragon Magazine is not. Purchasing buffs is sort of splitting hairs, and Ultio would notice.

[animewatcha]

I am not gonna do builds, but have you guys thought of doing 'throwaway builds' to gleam as much info and send it somehow to the 'next adventuring party' for a better start?

[ben-zayb]

I am not gonna do builds, but have you guys thought of doing 'throwaway builds' to gleam as much info and send it somehow to the 'next adventuring party' for a better start?
That's what I'm trying to do, actually. Skill checks aside, spending 1 minute to identify items on a 2 minute trial seems futile otherwise.

@Kazyan We pass through the entrance, but partially submerged on the ground (I think that's legal by RAW). That should mean we're ~30ft away from the top of the entrance. Since Sleight of Hand can be done as a free action, we are just waiting to draw her out of her hiding place, and then escape to a safe distance afterwards.

[Kazyan]

@Kazyan We pass through the entrance, but partially submerged on the ground (I think that's legal by RAW). That should mean we're ~30ft away from the top of the entrance. Since Sleight of Hand can be done as a free action, we are just waiting to draw her out of her hiding place, and then escape to a safe distance afterwards.

You wade through the floor. Sarin does not immediately emerge. (She did not ready an action; it's still the rest of your turn before she acts.)

It sounds like you're declaring a readied action. Do you wish to do that, or will you simply wait for your next turn to come around?

[animewatcha]

You say that Ultio erases one from existence... how?

[Extra Anchovies]

You say that Ultio erases one from existence... how?

Teleport Through Time, then Unname your parents.

[animewatcha]

Forcing him into a time paradox and proceeding to be unable to help sarin?

[Kazyan]

You say that Ultio erases one from existence... how?

Off-handedly. He's a TO wizard.

[ben-zayb]

You wade through the floor. Sarin does not immediately emerge. (She did not ready an action; it's still the rest of your turn before she acts.)

It sounds like you're declaring a readied action. Do you wish to do that, or will you simply wait for your next turn to come around?Nope, I'm just saying my options, kinda like saying a Wizard has Abrupt Jaunt in case someone tries to attack them.

As for actions, if Utterances don't require LoE (by RAW I think only spell specify that) then the PC will simply utter Lesser Words of Nurturing against Sarin, which he tries locate by Mindsight or X-Ray Vision (coupled with Sleight of Hand to bridge the 1-inch of metal gap). The cohort will then continue Identifying by X-Ray Vision. If Sarin doesn't do anything, then we go back NI feet away. If she did, then we interject free action to go back NI feet away anyway. If she responded with another (immediate?) action, just repeat our response of getting away.

[Kazyan]

Nope, I'm just saying my options, kinda like saying a Wizard has Abrupt Jaunt in case someone tries to attack them.

As for actions, if Utterances don't require LoE (by RAW I think only spell specify that) then the PC will simply utter Lesser Words of Nurturing against Sarin, which he tries locate by Mindsight or X-Ray Vision (coupled with Sleight of Hand to bridge the 1-inch of metal gap). The cohort will then continue Identifying by X-Ray Vision. If Sarin doesn't do anything, then we go back NI feet away. If she did, then we interject free action to go back NI feet away anyway. If she responded with another (immediate?) action, just repeat our response of getting away.

Okay. Answering a few things then before you lock in what you want to do:

I think utterances require LoE. They are SLAs, and the description of spell-like abilities says they function just like spells unless otherwise noted (such as in the case of components; that exception is called out in the text). You can indeed pinpoint her via Mindsight, though.

Free actions are not blanket-allowed outside of your turn any more than standard actions are--there are simply exceptions, such as speaking. Sleight of Hand free actions aren't one of the exceptions, so you won't be able to Lightning Thief in the middle of Sarin's turn. This may change your tactics.

[Extra Anchovies]

As an aside, how exactly does Sleight of Hand let you use abilities through 1 inch of metal?

[ben-zayb]

Okay. Answering a few things then before you lock in what you want to do:

I think utterances require LoE. They are SLAs, and the description of spell-like abilities says they function just like spells unless otherwise noted (such as in the case of components; that exception is called out in the text). You can indeed pinpoint her via Mindsight, though.

Free actions are not blanket-allowed outside of your turn any more than standard actions are--there are simply exceptions, such as speaking. Sleight of Hand free actions aren't one of the exceptions, so you won't be able to Lightning Thief in the middle of Sarin's turn. This may change your tactics.No problem, what I meant was I can do the shuffle during my turn, and speaking is indeed the only exception that I know of with regards to the free action out of turn.

If Utterances won't work then I'll scrap the current vague build soon for a better defined one. Otherwise, I'll have to rely on a lucky strike to hit her. I guess the Identify effect also works on the same way (needs LoE), so that won't work too.

This goes back to my earlier post that she can simply hide and stall 2 minutes if she can't beat her opponents. But before I scrap the build, let's see what happens when the PC and the cohort distance themselves NI feet, probably in some subterranean, underwater, or, most favorably, a dead magic zone if there is one in the plane (Knowledge Geography?).

[Kazyan]

No problem, what I meant was I can do the shuffle during my turn, and speaking is indeed the only exception that I know of with regards to the free action out of turn.

If Utterances won't work then I'll scrap the current vague build soon for a better defined one. Otherwise, I'll have to rely on a lucky strike to hit her. I guess the Identify effect also works on the same way (needs LoE), so that won't work too.

This goes back to my earlier post that she can simply hide and stall 2 minutes if she can't beat her opponents. But before I scrap the build, let's see what happens when the PC and the cohort distance themselves NI feet, probably in some subterranean, underwater, or, most favorably, a dead magic zone if there is one in the plane (Knowledge Geography?).

I'm not going to play the stalling game. That kills the fun.

You Lightning Thief away into the deep ocean somewhere. You're aware that dead magic zones would cause you to wink out, since you're incorporeal, so you avoid the few that you know about (which is basically all of them).

What do you do now?

[JDL]

My as-yet-to-be built character convinces a commoner to check whether Sarin needs to sleep.

[Kazyan]

My as-yet-to-be built character convinces a commoner to check whether Sarin needs to sleep.

After a number of deals with infernal forces, the commoner finds out from some imps that she is an "inferior" kind of outsider that usually needs to sleep. The commoner is promptly claimed by $rand.fiend shortly after relaying this information.

This reiterates what ben-zayb has determined, so I feel comfortable giving this to you. Determining this takes up 1 day of prep time.

[AvatarVecna]

Can this hypothetical build include Leadership and similar abilities? (note: for now, I'm only intending to take Leadership for the single cohort; I won't bust out a Crystal Cult unless I need to)

EDIT: Can we (the players) design custom items for our characters to buy (designed according to the guidelines for creating magic items in the DMG)?

[Kazyan]

Can this hypothetical build include Leadership and similar abilities? (note: for now, I'm only intending to take Leadership for the single cohort; I won't bust out a Crystal Cult unless I need to)

I did not ban Leadership.

EDIT: Designing custom items...no, I think.

[ben-zayb]

I'm not going to play the stalling game. That kills the fun.

You Lightning Thief away into the deep ocean somewhere. You're aware that dead magic zones would cause you to wink out, since you're incorporeal, so you avoid the few that you know about (which is basically all of them).

What do you do now?Basically, the same as the other rounds, trying to check if Sarin is out in the open so that they could do what they plan to do (spam Utterance), except they will always retreat to a different place each time. They'll also try to use non-action/free-action skills to determine any changes to their destination (the arena area, the periphery, the walls themselves, etc.)

EDIT: Dang... wrong tactic. Maybe I should've skipped the Incorporeality for the cohort so it could Strength check for 6-digit values

[Extra Anchovies]

Lightning Thief

To what action does this term refer, and why is it referred to as "lightning thief"?

[ben-zayb]

To what action does this term refer, and why is it referred to as "lightning thief"?

Darrin's Lightning Thief (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?142080-3-5-The-Lightning-Thief-Epic-Sleight-of-Hand-Abuse)

[Kazyan]

Basically, the same as the other rounds, trying to check if Sarin is out in the open so that they could do what they plan to do (spam Utterance), except they will always retreat to a different place each time. They'll also try to use non-action/free-action skills to determine any changes to their destination (the arena area, the periphery, the walls themselves, etc.)

You and your companion wait for about six seconds, then return. This time, it appears Sarin has returned to her original position where you first found her, staring blankly forward as usual. Seeing this, you use your utterances.

Gashes explosively erupt all along Sarin's body, releasing clouds of ephemeral blood. Her equipment--nightgown, ring, and amulet--falls away from what a highly trained necromancer might be able to recognize as a corpse. The ring and amulet clatter on the ground, and the corpse slowly fades out of existence. The nightgown takes a bit more time to descend, but lands in the arms of something that wasn't there before. It appears to be a Shadesteel Golem.

The golem stares down at the nightgown for a few moments. You try to determine its motives--it's more disappointed than anything else. It drops the nightgown, then shifts into a black orb, which promptly disappears.

Mephistopheles is going to be pleased.

Congratulations! You win! (I told you this was probably easier than the other challenges.)

If anyone wishes to continue this challenge in other timelines, I will oblige, but ben-zayb gets first pick of the bragging rights.

[SowZ]

For curiosities sake, can I now ask how she survived the collapse? I'm going to assume she went ethereal.

[Kazyan]

For curiosities sake, can I now ask how she survived the collapse? I'm going to assume she went ethereal.

*shrug* Does anyone want to continue the challenge? I'll reveal everything when people are done playing.

[AvatarVecna]

I'm working on a build ATM. It's not too complicated, but I'm hoping it'll be done fairly soon. For now, I'm avoiding Leadership.

[SowZ]

*shrug* Does anyone want to continue the challenge? I'll reveal everything when people are done playing.

Sure, I can wait a while longer.

[ben-zayb]

Yas! Probably the best I can do, too, since my spell/psionic system mastery and monstronomicon mastery memory sucks anyway.

EDIT: I think the real bragging right here is that a Truenamer finally succeeded at something on a no-caster challenge, which may still be sorta sad when you think about it.

[Extra Anchovies]

I'm not going to make a full attempt, but I'm guessing the Shadesteel Golem is a messenger/herald of Ultio.

Also, we have to defeat a high-powered mostly-martial character who is under the watchful eye of a divine rank 20 T1 caster, and the answer is... Truenaming. Of course :smalltongue:

[ben-zayb]

I'm not going to make a full attempt, but I'm guessing the Shadesteel Golem is a messenger/herald of Ultio.

Also, we have to defeat a high-powered mostly-martial character who is under the watchful eye of a divine rank 20 T1 caster, and the answer is... Truenaming. Of course :smalltongue:

Yeah, I think that's the best part, actually. A Truenamer 1, no less.

[JDL]

Bah, I'll post this anyway, though it probably wouldn't have worked.

Character: Sneaksoftly N'Carrie Abigstick
Class: Rogue 18/Shadowdancer 1/Assassin 1
Race: Human Male

Stats: Str: 18, Dex: 18, Con: 10, Int: 12, Wis: 8, Cha: 8
Skill Ranks:
Bluff +23, Climb +21, Diplomacy +23, Disguise +4, Gather Information +21, Hide +23, Listen +23, Move Silently +23, Perform: Dance +5, Spot +23, Tumble +22, Use Rope +13
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Mobility, Stealthy, Alertness, Skill Focus: Hide, Skill Focus: Move Silently, Skill Focus: Spot
Special Ability: Skill Mastery (Climb, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Spot)
Special Ability: Bonus Feat (Skill Focus: Listen)
Wealth by Level: 506,667 gp
Items:
+1 Flaming Burst Icy Burst Shocking Burst Colossal Scythe (103,088 gp)
+4 manual of Gainful Exercise (110,000 gp)
+4 manual of Quickness of Action (110,000 gp)
+6 Belt of Giant Strength (36,000 gp)
+6 Gloves of Dexterity (36,000 gp)
+1 mithral breastplate of greater shadow and greater silent moves (72,850 gp)
Luckstone (20,000 gp)
Winged Boots (16,000 gp)
Masterwork tool of Hide (50 gp)
Masterwork tool of Move Silently (50 gp)
Masterwork tool of Spot (50 gp)
Masterwork tool of Listen (50 gp)
Total: 504,138 gp of gear

Strategy:

I wait until Sarin's asleep, sneak inside and coup-de-grace with a Colossal Scythe for 4d6 epic/slashing/piercing +3d10 fire +3d10 cold +3d10 lightning +10d6 sneak attack, followed by Sarin making the required fortitude save (assuming she's not immune to criticals).

[Graypairofsocks]

A few questions:

At what point of the week is the character informed that they have to kill Sarin(or decides to)?

Will his portfolio sense ping (and will he care) if someone else casts spells for the PC?

If the PC forgets about the challenge and they use spells will they be instagibbed?

Are magic items allowed?

[Kazyan]

Bah, I'll post this anyway, though it probably wouldn't have worked.

Character: Sneaksoftly N'Carrie Abigstick
Class: Rogue 18/Shadowdancer 1/Assassin 1
Race: Human Male

Stats: Str: 18, Dex: 18, Con: 10, Int: 12, Wis: 8, Cha: 8
Skill Ranks:
Bluff +23, Climb +21, Diplomacy +23, Disguise +4, Gather Information +21, Hide +23, Listen +23, Move Silently +23, Perform: Dance +5, Spot +23, Tumble +22, Use Rope +13
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Mobility, Stealthy, Alertness, Skill Focus: Hide, Skill Focus: Move Silently, Skill Focus: Spot
Special Ability: Skill Mastery (Climb, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Spot)
Special Ability: Bonus Feat (Skill Focus: Listen)
Wealth by Level: 506,667 gp
Items:
+1 Flaming Burst Icy Burst Shocking Burst Colossal Scythe (103,088 gp)
+4 manual of Gainful Exercise (110,000 gp)
+4 manual of Quickness of Action (110,000 gp)
+6 Belt of Giant Strength (36,000 gp)
+6 Gloves of Dexterity (36,000 gp)
+1 mithral breastplate of greater shadow and greater silent moves (72,850 gp)
Luckstone (20,000 gp)
Winged Boots (16,000 gp)
Masterwork tool of Hide (50 gp)
Masterwork tool of Move Silently (50 gp)
Masterwork tool of Spot (50 gp)
Masterwork tool of Listen (50 gp)
Total: 504,138 gp of gear

Strategy:

I wait until Sarin's asleep, sneak inside and coup-de-grace with a Colossal Scythe for 4d6 epic/slashing/piercing +3d10 fire +3d10 cold +3d10 lightning +10d6 sneak attack, followed by Sarin making the required fortitude save (assuming she's not immune to criticals).

You sneak into the vault. You begin 120 feet from Sarin, who is currently hovering in place in a standing position, albeit with her eyes closed. From the expressions passing over her face, she's probably having a nightmare or is having her mind manipulated in her dreams. You start moving silently. It's very tense, but you manage to reach her without waking her up!

Then you swing your scythe, and it connects with a sort of thump noise. You're pretty sure hitting the base of the skull isn't supposed to make a "thump" noise. (No crit.) Her skull has only a small wound. The fire and frost seem to do nothing, but the electricity shocks her, and her eyes open.

She takes a few seconds to fully wake up. (Waking up is a full-round action.) It's your turn again, she's both awake and fully aware of you now, and the burn mark from the electricity--along with the small wound on her skull--has healed. What do you do, besides pat yourself on the back for managing to do damage?

EDIT: Calculation mistake on the physical damage.


A few questions:

At what point of the week is the character informed that they have to kill Sarin(or decides to)?

Will his portfolio sense ping (and will he care) if someone else casts spells for the PC?

If the PC forgets about the challenge and they use spells will they be instagibbed?

Are magic items allowed?

We're assuming that the character is aware of what they're doing at the start of the week.

Ultio will notice, and care, if you just buy your spellcasting.

If you abort and don't try to kill Sarin, you're no longer of Ultio's concern and he won't smite you if you cast spells.

Magic items are fine, but remember that spell trigger and completion items can draw Ultio's attention, as in the OP.

[AvatarVecna]

Okay, I think I'm done nitpicking my own build to death. So! It turns out that my build is stretching RAW almost to the breaking point on a few separate points, but it should be fine. The build!

--Templates: Half-Minotaur, Half-Ogre

--Race: Half-Orc

--Class lvls: Warblade 1/Fighter 1/Half-Orc Paragon 3/Bloodstorm Blade 1/Fighter +3/Cleric of Gruumsh (Cloistered Cleric ACF) 1/Eye of Gruumsh 2/Hulking Hurler 2/Bear Warrior 1/Warshaper 2/Barbarian (Whirling Frenzy ACF) 1/Frenzied Berserker 1

--HD: 6d12+6d10+5d8+1d6+52 (LA +1). HP: average 148

--BAB: +19/+14/+9/+4

--Base Fort +31; Base Ref +10; Base Will +6

--Str: 48 (+19)
--Dex: 6 (-2)
--Con: 14 (+2)
--Int: 12 (+1)
--Wis 8 (-1)
--Cha 4 (-3)

According to the Half-Minotaur template (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/half-minotaur.shtml), when a change in size occurs, one must consult the size change calculator to determine the effect. After checking with both the calculator and the rules it was based on, I've determined that, on top o the direct attribute bonuses it provides, it also gives a +8 size bonus to Str, a -2 size penalty to Dex, and a +4 size bonus to Con.

Thus, total Str, including items, is 48 (Purchased 18+Templates 16+Race 2+ECL 4+Half-Orc Paragon 2+Belt of Giant's Strength 6).

--Skills: Balance 8 ranks, Knowledge (the Planes) 23 ranks, Spot several ranks, rest unimportant

--Skill Tricks: Collector of Stories, others unimportant

--Maneuvers: One Iron Heart Maneuver, Iron Heart Surge, One Iron Heart Stance, rest unimportant

--Feats: Point Blank Shot, Power Attack, Cleave, Brutal Throw, Far Shot, EWP (Orc Double-axe), Weapon Focus (Orc Double-axe), Throw Anything, Knowledge Devotion, Chaos Devotion, Martial Study (Iron Heart Surge), Heroic Destiny, Intimidating Rage, Destructive Rage, Thrall to Demon

--all AC types: you ht on anything but a 1

--Items

----Crystal Mask of Knowledge (The Planes)

----Belt of Giant's Strength +6

----Ring of Blinking

----Gloves of Man (worn in bear form)

----Shackles of Silence

----Portable Hole

----
So, by the rules, you can't enchant a weapon that isn't masterwork; furthermore, rocks can't be crafted into masterwork rocks, on account of being improvised weapons. However, interestingly enough, weapons made with adamantine count as masterwork for any purpose. Thus, for the mere price of 3000 gp, I have an enchantable rock.

To be clear, I have an Adamantine Rock with +4 Enhancement and the Bane: Outsider (Native), Brilliant Energy, Seeking, and Lucky enchantments. Although Outsider (native) isn't listed as a possible randomly discovered result, there is no limit to the ability's function that would exclude the type as a RAW legal choice. Final item price: 203000 gp. Also, seeing as adamantine doesn't have a listed density, or cost per pound, I essentially have a bowling ball of solid adamatine sized for a Large creature to bowl with; everything but the finger holes are made of brilliant energy, and the ball weighs somewhere near my medium load number when I'm fully enraged. In order to carry it around, I keep it in my portable hole until I go into full rage mode. It weighs a total of 1 Million pounds, and deals 5003d6 base damage.


----112666 gp remainingBegin taking actions outside of the vault, outside of combat while Sarin is sleeping. Start 440 ft away from Sarin, at the exact same height.

Round -6: Use command word to activate Ring of Blinking (it's neither a spell trigger nor completion item; those are things like wands and rods and staffs and scrolls, not rings). Fly 60 ft directly towards Sarin.

Round -5: Don Shackles of Silence as Full Round Action. I am now silenced and cannot be heard until the shackles are undone; since sleeping characters can only attempt Listen checks (which auto-fail against Silence) and can't attempt Spot checks, and seeing as the dude earlier got in without needing Darkstalker to bypass other senses, I'm reasonably certain she won't detect me sneaking up while flying and silenced while she sleeps.

Round -4: Double move 120 ft towards Sarin.

Round -3: Double move 120 ft towards Sarin.

Round -2: Double move 120 ft towards Sarin. End turn within 20 ft of Sarin. Free action Knowledge Devotion check; taking 1, my result is 39. If she's an outsider (as I've been lead to believe), then I should get the +5 insight bonus to attack and damage rolls against her.

Round -1: Free action to activate Whirling Frenzy; replace Whirling Frenzy effects with Bear Form effects; activating Bear Form activates Morphic Body. Free action to activate Rage; activating Rage activates Swing Blindly. Free action to activate Frenzy. Current Strength: 72 (base 48+Bear Form 8+Morphic Body 4+Rage 4+Swing Blindly 2+Frenzy 6). Standard Action to Iron Heart Surge the "Manacles" part of the Manacles of Silence; they are restraining/entangling/grappling me, which makes that condition a viable target for IHS. Thus, my limbs are free to move, I have a +2 circumstance bonus to attack rolls until the end of my next turn, and I'm still silenced. Move action to retrieve Grog's Metal Rock of Death from storage in Portable Hole.

Round 0 (surprise round): Swift Action to activate Chaos Devotion (1d10; if result is odd, it will be added to the attack roll; if it's even, I spend a free action activating Thrall to Demon to add 1 to that roll and add the new total to the attack roll instead). Free action to activate Heroic Destiny (1d6; this will be added to the attack roll). Full Round Action to use Overburdened Heave to throw my rock at Sarin.

Attack Bonus: +75 (BAB 19+Str 31+Improvised Weapon Penalty (-2)+Size Penalty (-1)+Point Blank Shot 1+Enhancement 6 (assuming she's a native outsider; if not, +4)+Knowledge Devotion 5 (assuming she's an outsider; if not, +0)+Chaos Devotion 7+Heroic Destiny 6+Iron Heart Surge 2+Ring of Blinking 2)

Target is asleep; this usually makes the target FF.

Attacker is under the effect of a Blink spell effect; this usually makes the target FF.

Weapon used to attack is a Brilliant Energy Weapon; this usually ignores the target's armor.

Furthermore, should the original attack critically fail (natural 1), the Lucky enchantment allows a 1/day reroll, which will be used to reroll said critical failure (again, a natural 1).

Damage Bonus: 5003d6+42 (37 if she's not a native outsider) (Str 31+Enhancement 6 (if she's a native outsider; if she's not, +4)+Knowledge Devotion 5 (if she's an outsider; if she's not, +0))
So...how'd I do?

[AvatarVecna]

Okay, since the roller didn't want to work in that post, here's the results for the Chaos Devotion and Heroic Destiny rolls so I can figure out what my bonuses are...

1d10
1d6

EDIT: Do these just not work in this part of the forum. Oh well. I'm going to go roll all of this in the Dice Rolling section of the forum; I'll link to that post once I've rolled everything.

Here's the link. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?386259-If-it-has-stats-rolls&p=18472549#post18472549)

Okay. By all rights, I snuck up on her, attacked and hit her FF Touch AC, bypassed her mischance using Seeking, and did enough damage to her that her DR and HP can't save her. So tell me...did I get her? Or did I miss something important?

[Uncle Pine]

I'll be AFB for 5 days but I really want to try again before Sarin's stats are published, so here's my second attempt:

Krink the elephant lover:
- Incarnated dustform incarnated dustform incarnated dustform incarnated dustform incarnated dustform incarnated dustform incarnated dustform incarnated dustform incarnated dustform incarnated dustform incarnated dustform incarnated dustform incarnated dustform incarnated dustform incarnated dustform incarnated dustform incarnated dustform incarnated dustform incarnated dustform incarnated dustform incarnated dustform incarnated dustform incarnated dustform ... [incarnated dustform ad libitum] Great Wyrm dragonwrought Kobold Fighter 2/Warblade 14/Bloodstorm Blade 1/Hulking Hurler 2/Binder 1 (in order, Fighter 2/Warblade 3/Bloodstorm Blade 1/Hulking Hurler 2/Warblade +11/Binder 1)
As my two-handed hurl trick I choose Area Attack.
- Relevant maneuvers: White Raven Tactics, Iron Heart Surge (just in case).
- Size: Colossal+ (as per ELH, as Wyrmling dragonwrought kobolds are Small a Great Wyrm dragonwrought kobold becomes Colossal at 3rd level and Colossal+ at 15th level)
- AC NI (+3 Dexterity, +23 natural, -8 size, +NI from NI +20 defending everdancing weapons)
I assumed the "no custom magic items" clause to prevent +NI weapons because enhancement bonuses are only listed up to +20 in the ELH.
- Abilities: NI Strength (8 base + NI from templates + 12 from age), 16 Dexterity (8 base turned into 3 by templates + 12 from magic item + 1 from levels), 46 Constitution (8 base turned into 18 by templates + 12 from magic item + 4 from levels + 12 from age), 36 Intelligence (8 base turned into 18 by templates + 12 from magic items + 6 from age), 36 Wisdom (18 base + 12 from magic items + 6 from age), 36 Charisma (18 base + 12 from magic items + 6 from age)
I assumed the "no custom magic items" clause to prevent +NI ability-boosting items because they're not listed in the ELH shopping table.
- Saves +42/+20/+34
- Feats: Power Attack (1st), Weapon Focus (1st), Iron Will (1st, retrained later to Dragonwrought), Point Blank Shot (2nd), Brutal Throw (3rd), Leadership (6th), Might Makes Right (9th), Epic Leadership (12th), Endurance (15th), Steadfast Determination (18th).
Note: As applying incarnated and dustform would turn a dragonwrought kobold into a humanoid, I retrain Iron Will into the Dragonwrought feat AFTER the application of the templates: this way I'm a dragon.
- As my cohort I choose another kobold. Same build, same equipment, but a couple of levels lower.

Preparation: as my Leadership score is NI, I order my NI followers to spend the 1st day of my preparation week working as per the Profession skill. I now have NI sp. Then, I spend the rest of the time shopping somewhere (probably Sigil). Relevant purchases (for me and my cohort): +12 enhancement item for each ability score bar Strength, +10 resistance cloak, NI +20 defending everdancing adamantine elephant figurines (adamantine makes them mwk so there should be no problem, if there is a problem replace them with normal +20 defending everlasting weapons), the entire "Lists of Necessary Magic Items" thread and "Shax's indispensible haversack" thread, an appropriately sized riverine elephant statue (main weapon). I also bind Naberius.

The fight:
- Round 0: If Krink the elephant lover, his cohort and their possession fit through the door, they enter the arena and Roll For Initiative. If not, they gently move (= throw away) the tower and Roll For Initiative.

(I won't specify that each round Krink and his cohort will both allocate the entire enhancement bonus of their everdancing elephants to AC, but they'll do it.)
- Round 1: After winning the initiative, Krink's cohort flies 150' forward (ring of solar wings) and throws his riverine elephant (+NI to-hit, damage something+NI; I'm sorry but I don't remember riverine weight, not that's really relevant). Krink does the same and uses a swift action to grant his cohort an extra turn (White Raven Tactics). Krink's cohort proceed to use WRT on Krink and uses an Area Attack (full-round action, if it hits AC 10 Satin has to roll Reflex with a DC of 10+NI or take full damage). If Satin still stands, Krink attacks with his riverine elephant (+NI to-hit, damage something+NI), moves in meele range (20' as he's C+), full attacks with his NI everdancing adamantine elephants, activates his belt of battle to get a full round worth of action, full attacks again with his NI everdancing adamantine elephants and finally attempts an Area Attack (see above).

[Inevitability]

"Assumed to have" is grammatically dependent on "spellcaster with a spell component pouch", so you have the equipment when you, as a spellcaster, have the component pouch.


While the idea of undefined RAW defaulting to what is most advantageous to you makes me scratch my head, I think getting a specifically Large pouch is valid. But you still have the problem that I mentioned in the sentence before the one you quoted.

What problem are you talking about? I am a spellcaster with a spell component pouch.

Or I'll just PazuzuPazuzuPazuzu and wish for a Sphere of Annihilation, to be created with the square currently occupied by Saris.

If this doesn't work for reasons I didn't get, allow me to introduce plan 2 and 3.

As plan 1, except I buy a Well of Many Worlds (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Well_of_Many_Worlds) instead of a dire bat. I then send a sphere of annihilation into it and enjoy having the world end in 1d12+6 minutes.

For bonus points, I may try to find some hoops that would allow me to cast Time Hop (hopping past the destruction of all reality) without alerting Ultio, although that is not necessary.

If I can't pull SoA's out of a SCP for some reason, I instead Pazuzu Pazuzu Pazuzu and wish for a SoA. Proceed from there with the above plan.

I am a truenamer 20. I create a Gate to summon a ∞(Dustform-Incarnate Construct) Half-Fiend Living Spell Hallow. It qualified for Incarnate Construct because it was Medusa Pertification Gaze + Stone Shape + Stone to Flesh'ed into a humanoid form. Ignoring the massive existence crisis such a creature would have, I then have it attack Saris. The moment the spell hits her (it does because infinite strength), she is affected as if she is in the area of a Hallow spell. This specific hallow spell has a Mindrape (become fanatic towards me in attitude) effect tied to it.

I then summon another living spell, this time an Awakened Painless Death. I calmly fly up to Sarin, show her the li'l ooze, and command her to let herself be engulfed by it. Oh, and I also command her to accept the spell effect, obviously.

[Kazyan]

Currently AFB, but will soon respond to you three with questions and/or objections.

[Kazyan]

Grom, Devotee of Gruumsh

1) I said Dragon Magazine outside of Dragon Compendium is not allowed. This includes Half-Minotaur and Half-Ogre, which seem to be critical to your build.

2) I'm in the minority opinion about Iron Heart Surge, but I'm going to present my view anyway, and if you can present a convincing counterargument, I'll let this go. I don't think you can IHS the shackles because "condition" is a mechanical term, with specific enumerations. See the Condition Summary in the SRD for what I mean, and "shackled" is not a condition.


Krink the elephant lover

1) You've exceeded the allotted WBL. I don't particularly care which TO trick you use to get your allotted money, but you've still exceeded WBL for the challenge and this entry is not valid. I let it go for Bob the Farmer because, frankly, Dire Stirge was just showing off and adding a single level accounts for the purchase of a Dire Bat. But for this, I have to bring it up. If I was going to allow infinite money, why would I have placed a WBL restriction in the first place?

2) I've stated before that you can't purchase spellcasting. Incarnate Construct is a spell. This is kind of a gray area for character generation, but it's what I said. Rules are rules.


What problem are you talking about? I am a spellcaster with a spell component pouch.

Or I'll just PazuzuPazuzuPazuzu and wish for a Sphere of Annihilation, to be created with the square currently occupied by Saris.

If this doesn't work for reasons I didn't get, allow me to introduce plan 2 and 3.

As plan 1, except I buy a Well of Many Worlds (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Well_of_Many_Worlds) instead of a dire bat. I then send a sphere of annihilation into it and enjoy having the world end in 1d12+6 minutes.

For bonus points, I may try to find some hoops that would allow me to cast Time Hop (hopping past the destruction of all reality) without alerting Ultio, although that is not necessary.

If I can't pull SoA's out of a SCP for some reason, I instead Pazuzu Pazuzu Pazuzu and wish for a SoA. Proceed from there with the above plan.

I am a truenamer 20. I create a Gate to summon a ∞(Dustform-Incarnate Construct) Half-Fiend Living Spell Hallow. It qualified for Incarnate Construct because it was Medusa Pertification Gaze + Stone Shape + Stone to Flesh'ed into a humanoid form. Ignoring the massive existence crisis such a creature would have, I then have it attack Saris. The moment the spell hits her (it does because infinite strength), she is affected as if she is in the area of a Hallow spell. This specific hallow spell has a Mindrape (become fanatic towards me in attitude) effect tied to it.

I then summon another living spell, this time an Awakened Painless Death. I calmly fly up to Sarin, show her the li'l ooze, and command her to let herself be engulfed by it. Oh, and I also command her to accept the spell effect, obviously.

You are a spellcaster with a spell component pouch, so you are assumed to have the Sphere of Annihilation, even before you arrive. You have it as soon as you have the pouch. How, exactly, are you getting there, then?

You show up and call upon Pazuzu. (Handwaving how you hit the DC 25 K:The Planes check since that's mostly trivial.) For the first round, nothing seems to happen. (Pazuzu needs to Plane Shift and Greater Teleport.) Sarin notices you, and it's her turn now. (You're a low-level Commoner; I won't bother explaining how you die.)

Plan 2, assuming you gain enough levels for a Well of Many Worlds to be within WBL:

Outside of the vault, you control the Sphere and place it in the Well shortly after purchasing your Spell Component Pouch.

Going to drop narration because this gets very metagamey. The "black hole" result has additional rules on the very next page of Elder Evils, detailing what happens within the first three minutes. Nothing in the first two minutes will kill Sarin; she will always hit the DC 15 Balance check. When your two minutes is up, Ultio goes back and stops this whole thing from happening, as mentioned in the OP.

Plan 3:

At some point, Ultio notices that, 20 weeks into the future, a Truenamer will try to use a spell--specifically, a living spell. He proceeds to erase the Truenamer before this can happen. (A living spell is a type of spell, and you're using one.)

[Kazyan]

I'd like to clarify to everyone that I'm only trying to make things make logistical sense and for attempts to follow the rules. I am not trying to be difficult for no reason.

[Uncle Pine]

2) I've stated before that you can't purchase spellcasting. Incarnate Construct is a spell. This is kind of a gray area for character generation, but it's what I said. Rules are rules.
Argh, I hoped that'd have slid (because character creation and all). I don't really mind not having infinite money, but fixing this could require a bit.


I'd like to clarify to everyone that I'm only trying to make things make logistical sense and for attempts to follow the rules. I am not trying to be difficult for no reason.
Challenges are supposed to be difficult and to make sense. Don't worry :)

[Inevitability]

You are a spellcaster with a spell component pouch, so you are assumed to have the Sphere of Annihilation, even before you arrive. You have it as soon as you have the pouch. How, exactly, are you getting there, then?

You show up and call upon Pazuzu. (Handwaving how you hit the DC 25 K:The Planes check since that's mostly trivial.) For the first round, nothing seems to happen. (Pazuzu needs to Plane Shift and Greater Teleport.) Sarin notices you, and it's her turn now. (You're a low-level Commoner; I won't bother explaining how you die.)

Plan 2, assuming you gain enough levels for a Well of Many Worlds to be within WBL:

Outside of the vault, you control the Sphere and place it in the Well shortly after purchasing your Spell Component Pouch.

Going to drop narration because this gets very metagamey. The "black hole" result has additional rules on the very next page of Elder Evils, detailing what happens within the first three minutes. Nothing in the first two minutes will kill Sarin; she will always hit the DC 15 Balance check. When your two minutes is up, Ultio goes back and stops this whole thing from happening, as mentioned in the OP.

Plan 3:

At some point, Ultio notices that, 20 weeks into the future, a Truenamer will try to use a spell--specifically, a living spell. He proceeds to erase the Truenamer before this can happen. (A living spell is a type of spell, and you're using one.)

Okay. Fair enough. I guess I'll be sacrificing a sheep or something outside of the vault then, using Guidance of the Avatar + 22 wisdom + Maxed Know (religion) to auto-succeed on the DC 50 check. I wish for a SoA, yadda yadda yadda, you know the drift.

Plan 3: Now you are mixing things up. Creatures and Spells are two separate D&D terms. I am summoning a Creature, not a spell. A living spell is not a Spell, it is a Creature based on a Spell.

What's the exact wording on Ultio's portfolio sense? Does it include all magical creatures?


EDIT: On Pazuzu, I'll be taking a level in the Ghost template class than. I hide in the floor/walls (which are a safe place, as has been established) while summoning ol' pazzu. My wish remains unchanged.


And hasn't it been established that the SoA wouldn't be in my SCP until I want it to be? I believe the term you used was 'magically appears'.

[Kazyan]

*scratches head in confusion over stupid complicated game* Let me look more stuff up when I'm back to the books, then. I think at least one of those methods...hmm.

[Uncle Pine]

As my 3rd attempt is going to look more or less like this:
Working under the assumption that a templated kobold is nevertheless a kobold and thus qualify for Dragonwrought:
- Krink the elephant lover with an actual albeit squicky elephant stuck on the back of his head
- Symbiotic guardian, shadow, half-farspawn, anarchic, entropic, half-fey, unseelie fey, celestial, phrenic, half-celestial, pseudonatural (the non-epic one), draconic, paragon, pseudonatural (the epic one), half-dragon (amethyst), spellwarped, 46 more times half-a-dragon (battle, black, blue, brass, bronze, brown, chaos, copper, crystal, deep, ectoplasmic, emerald, ethereal, fang, force, gold, green, howling, incarnum, li lung, lung wang, mercury, mist, obsidian, oceanus, orange sodium, pan lung, prismatic, purple energy, pyroclastic, radiant, rattelyr, rust, sand, sapphire, shadow, silver, song, steel, styx, tarterian, topaz, tun mi lung, white yellow salt and red), twelve-headed, half-troll, greenbound, woodling, Lolth-touched, voidmind, sanctified Elephant / Great Wyrm dragonwrought kobold (total LA +1, ECL 20) Fighter 2/Warblade 13/Bloodstorm Blade 1/Hulking Hurler 2/Binder 1 (in order, Fighter 2/Warblade 3/Bloodstorm Blade 1/Hulking Hurler 2/Warblade +10/Binder 1)
I'll ask you if I really have to calculate the stats of Krink's elephant, as I plan to just detach him from Krink and unleash hellephant. As the answer'll probably be yes, do you think there is something wrong in the build so far?

EDIT: Just to clarify: Krink (Colossal+) is the host, while the elephant (Huge) is the symbiont.

[AvatarVecna]

1) I said Dragon Magazine outside of Dragon Compendium is not allowed. This includes Half-Minotaur and Half-Ogre, which seem to be critical to your build.

2) I'm in the minority opinion about Iron Heart Surge, but I'm going to present my view anyway, and if you can present a convincing counterargument, I'll let this go. I don't think you can IHS the shackles because "condition" is a mechanical term, with specific enumerations. See the Condition Summary in the SRD for what I mean, and "shackled" is not a condition.

Okay, look. I can spend 8 hours rebuilding this character as a centaur to get around the template issue. In order to make up for certain things, I'll have to spend some more money on grafts (http://www.realmshelps.net/magic/items/grafts.shtml), which aren't Dragon Magazine. That said, the next build will be similar enough to this that the final result will be the the same: a ridiculously high Strength character throwing a million+ pounds of magic metal at her, targeting her FF Touch AC with a Seeking weapon, and doing thousands of d6s of damage.

If you can tell me that, even if my Strength and Size came from something other than those disallowed Dragon Mag templates, I wouldn't have hit her FF Touch AC, and I wouldn't have crushed her with a million pounds of rock, I'll admit defeat on this one. But if not...I'm busting out Leadership abuse; I will have an army of slightly less powerful Hulking Hurlers than this one, and I will bury her in Metal Rocks of Death.

Well?

[AvatarVecna]

I'm in the minority opinion about Iron Heart Surge, but I'm going to present my view anyway, and if you can present a convincing counterargument, I'll let this go. I don't think you can IHS the shackles because "condition" is a mechanical term, with specific enumerations. See the Condition Summary in the SRD for what I mean, and "shackled" is not a condition.

You're absolutely right! "Shackled" isn't a condition, and therefore can't be IHS'd away. In fact, according to the SRD...


Manacles can bind a Medium creature. A manacled creature can use the Escape Artist skill to slip free (DC 30, or DC 35 for masterwork manacles). Breaking the manacles requires a Strength check (DC 26, or DC 28 for masterwork manacles). Manacles have hardness 10 and 10 hit points.

Most manacles have locks; add the cost of the lock you want to the cost of the manacles.

For the same cost, you can buy manacles for a Small creature.

For a Large creature, manacles cost ten times the indicated amount, and for a Huge creature, one hundred times this amount. Gargantuan, Colossal, Tiny, Diminutive, and Fine creatures can be held only by specially made manacles.
The DC for manacles is set by their construction.

You know what's missing from those SRD quotes? Any mechanically enforced disadvantage from being manacled. You want to talk RAW? You're right, if it's not a spell or condition, I can't just IHS it away. But according to RAW, manacles have no mechanical effect at all. It's certainly implied, but there's no rule. Okay, sure, you could houserule something. But the best, easiest way to houserule it is that manacles bestow a condition on their wearer; whether that RAI placed condition is grappled, pinned, or entangled, it can still be IHS'd away. You can't have it both ways: either it puts a condition on me that I can IHS away, or it doesn't do anything by RAW and I don't need to worry about being manacled.

Also, as a side note, I could just break the manacles with my ungodly Strength and IHS the Alarm effect. Or, you know, I could just ignore the Alarm effect and hit her with the Metal Rock of Death during the surprise round; since Sarin would be surprised, she couldn't act in the surprise round, and would then have to spend a full round action waking up. That means, since this build would have Bloodstorm Blade, the rock returns to me and I throw it again, just for good measure...assuming she lived through the first throw, which it's entirely possible she didn't.

[Kazyan]

Okay. Fair enough. I guess I'll be sacrificing a sheep or something outside of the vault then, using Guidance of the Avatar + 22 wisdom + Maxed Know (religion) to auto-succeed on the DC 50 check. I wish for a SoA, yadda yadda yadda, you know the drift.

Guidance of the Avatar pings Ultio.


Plan 3: Now you are mixing things up. Creatures and Spells are two separate D&D terms. I am summoning a Creature, not a spell. A living spell is not a Spell, it is a Creature based on a Spell.

I took a closer look at Living Spell, and it apparently never says anything about an actual spell going off--it is applied to a spell's effect, specifically, and always mentions the spell's effect instead of the spell itself. So this is okay, due to my non-legalese explanation of Rule 3.

Nice work in finding a loophole. Though, if other players' attempts suddenly become Truenamer Gate -> Living Spell (TO Buzzword Spell goes here), I'll end the challenge because that means they will be opting out of the actual "challenge" part of it.


What's the exact wording on Ultio's portfolio sense? Does it include all magical creatures?

If you or a sidecar uses a spell or power, including one converted into some other ability descriptor if it was originally a spell at some point, portfolio sense pings. I don't want to spend a day drafting it into legalese, so there you go.


EDIT: On Pazuzu, I'll be taking a level in the Ghost template class than. I hide in the floor/walls (which are a safe place, as has been established) while summoning ol' pazzu. My wish remains unchanged.

I don't believe Sarin's turn has ever came up while someone was hiding in the floor or walls; the Lightning Imps darted in and out on their turns without letting Sarin's initiative come up. So it's only been established that it's safe during your turn.

You enter the vault, slinking through the floor, and call on Pazuzu in the Ethereal Plane. Sarin doesn't seem to notice you.

Pazuzu appears before you in in about fifteen seconds, and you negotiate the wish. Pazuzu agrees, though he seems irritated at your choice of plane, and proceeds to use his wish.

A black blotch appears where Sarin is. It's washed-out and indistinct because of its presence on the Material Plane, but Sarin seems to no longer be there.

The demon lord smirks, gives an ominous prophecy about your soul being corrupted by the material wealth you will receive (and other such demonic yammering), then disappears.

Congratulations! You win!


And hasn't it been established that the SoA wouldn't be in my SCP until I want it to be? I believe the term you used was 'magically appears'.

I could explain my interpretation further, but I imagine you've lost interest now.


I'll ask you if I really have to calculate the stats of Krink's elephant, as I plan to just detach him from Krink and unleash hellephant. As the answer'll probably be yes, do you think there is something wrong in the build so far?

I like the idea, but can you explain how Krink is Colossal? I can't find anything in the stub that suggests he's any larger than Small.


Okay, look. I can spend 8 hours rebuilding this character as a centaur to get around the template issue. In order to make up for certain things, I'll have to spend some more money on grafts (http://www.realmshelps.net/magic/items/grafts.shtml), which aren't Dragon Magazine. That said, the next build will be similar enough to this that the final result will be the the same: a ridiculously high Strength character throwing a million+ pounds of magic metal at her, targeting her FF Touch AC with a Seeking weapon, and doing thousands of d6s of damage.

If you can tell me that, even if my Strength and Size came from something other than those disallowed Dragon Mag templates, I wouldn't have hit her FF Touch AC, and I wouldn't have crushed her with a million pounds of rock, I'll admit defeat on this one. But if not...I'm busting out Leadership abuse; I will have an army of slightly less powerful Hulking Hurlers than this one, and I will bury her in Metal Rocks of Death.

Well?

I'll agree to leaving the exact method of acquiring high Strength indeterminate. For example's sake, let's say you're using a variant of Baby Shump. You've also convinced me that the shackles are no problem, though I request that you don't get indignant about my fallible attempts at enforcing RAW when this entire thread has been mostly RAW abuses. I'm open to debate about interpretations.

You fly though the door while blinking and silenced. Sarin doesn't appear to notice you approach. You get close, flip out, turn into a bear, and pull your 11-1/2-foot-diameter adamantine bowling ball out of the hole that you unroll out on the metal sheet you were carrying it in. (Portable holes need to be spread out on something to work, and you're not adjacent to any surfaces, but having your hole rolled up on a piece of paper that you unroll later makes this trivial. I'm getting afraid of asking people for logistics at this point, anyway. I ran a calculation on how much 1,000,000 lb of steel actually looks like, since adamantine seems to be the weight of iron everywhere except the PHB, which says it's 3/4 the weight of iron. It would have a diameter of 16 ft or so, assuming it's as dense as iron. A 11-1/2 foot diameter sphere is mostly inside of the portable hole, so it should be considered "in" the hole for storage purposes, so I'm giving you a smaller rock of this size. It weighs about 200 tons.) It's quite terrifying to look at. You maneuver around the manacles as you retrieve the bowling ball, then bowl it at her. It connects! (You deal 2003d6+42 or so damage, which is going to come out to about 7000.) The ball slams into the ground with an earth-shattering impact, though the vault structure seems to hold, despite the partially destroyed floor.

Looking around, you can't find any sign of Sarin, so you take your ball and go home, so to speak.

Congratulations! You win!

Uncle Pine, I'm just going to wait until one of your revisions wins or you give up, and then I think it's time to reveal the stats because I'm starting to think this challenge is only making people mad and is too easy.

[AvatarVecna]

I'll agree to leaving the exact method of acquiring high Strength indeterminate. For example's sake, let's say you're using a variant of Baby Shump. You've also convinced me that the shackles are no problem, though I request that you don't get indignant about my fallible attempts at enforcing RAW when this entire thread has been mostly RAW abuses. I'm open to debate about interpretations.

I apologize for how I came across; it wasn't meant to be indignant, although looking back at it, I can see that that's exactly what it's like. I'm sorry for being so acidic with my response; I've been awake for far too long, and the thought of redoing my build was, at the time of typing, a rather daunting task considering how close I felt I'd come. Incidentally, after having calmed down a bit, I remembered that Cancer Mage is a thing, as is Festering Anger. I usually try to avoid such RAW abuse, but it's a rather simple way of getting the Strength sufficient for the task.

In any case, I appreciated this challenge; it was an interesting experience finding a purely RAW, mundane method of killing the equivalent of a deity. Of course, since this was me, I'm not surprised that my first thought and final build were "I throw a giant rock at it!" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEdg4glpCkg)

Again, sorry for being mean about it.

[Kazyan]

I apologize for how I came across; it wasn't meant to be indignant, although looking back at it, I can see that that's exactly what it's like. I'm sorry for being so acidic with my response; I've been awake for far too long, and the thought of redoing my build was, at the time of typing, a rather daunting task considering how close I felt I'd come. Incidentally, after having calmed down a bit, I remembered that Cancer Mage is a thing, as is Festering Anger. I usually try to avoid such RAW abuse, but it's a rather simple way of getting the Strength sufficient for the task.

In any case, I appreciated this challenge; it was an interesting experience finding a purely RAW, mundane method of killing the equivalent of a deity. Of course, since this was me, I'm not surprised that my first thought and final build were "I throw a giant rock at it!" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEdg4glpCkg)

Again, sorry for being mean about it.

Apology accepted.

Cancer Mage + Festering Anger would take up prep time, but since all you really needed was about +14 extra Strength, that would have worked on a centaur base anyway.

You and Dire Stirge are now in the "bragging rights" section.

[ben-zayb]

Maybe it's just funny coincidence, but all winning entries so far have patrons/benefactors who are somewhat "big bosses" from the lower planes.:smalltongue:

[AvatarVecna]

Apology accepted.

Cancer Mage + Festering Anger would take up prep time, but since all you really needed was about +14 extra Strength, that would have worked on a centaur base anyway.

You and Dire Stirge are now in the "bragging rights" section.

If we read into the specifics, I doubt a Hulking Hurler took a level in Cancer Mage and waited until they found a world-shattering challenge to overcome before giving themselves Strength via Festering Anger. It's more like this kind of character would have gotten into Cancer Mage a long time ago, and has simply been enjoying the benefits for long enough that they have NI Strength. Even so, it's like you said: it's not as if I needed more than 14 points or so.

Of course, at that point, you're just abusing Cancer Mage, which is a pretty common TO trick, but I digress. As an aside, will we be PM'd the stats, or will you post the stats in the thread once the challenge starts winding down? I'm pretty sure you've got the Paragon epic template, and perhaps the Psuedonatural template as well, but I'm curious as to what else was mixed in there.

[Kazyan]

If we read into the specifics, I doubt a Hulking Hurler took a level in Cancer Mage and waited until they found a world-shattering challenge to overcome before giving themselves Strength via Festering Anger. It's more like this kind of character would have gotten into Cancer Mage a long time ago, and has simply been enjoying the benefits for long enough that they have NI Strength. Even so, it's like you said: it's not as if I needed more than 14 points or so.

Of course, at that point, you're just abusing Cancer Mage, which is a pretty common TO trick, but I digress. As an aside, will we be PM'd the stats, or will you post the stats in the thread once the challenge starts winding down? I'm pretty sure you've got the Paragon epic template, and perhaps the Psuedonatural template as well, but I'm curious as to what else was mixed in there.

That may be what goes on IC, but even if the character would logically have had Festering Anger before hearing of the challenge, I'd still count it as prep time because it's unambiguously being done OOC as a way to prepare. In a TO environment, that's what makes the most sense to me. *shrug* Just throwing it out there in case someone else tries Cancer Mage.

I'll post the stats in-thread. rockdeworld apparently took a vacation from the forum and Belial is hesitating, so I want to at least reveal this. Poke this thread if it falls off for a while and it seems I've forgotten.

[Uncle Pine]

I like the idea, but can you explain how Krink is Colossal? I can't find anything in the stub that suggests he's any larger than Small.
As per ELH, as Wyrmling dragonwrought kobolds are Small, a Great Wyrm dragonwrought kobold becomes Colossal at 3rd level and Colossal+ at 15th level. I forgot to add this part to the stub because I didn't change it from the previous build.

[Kazyan]

As per ELH, as Wyrmling dragonwrought kobolds are Small, a Great Wyrm dragonwrought kobold becomes Colossal at 3rd level and Colossal+ at 15th level. I forgot to add this part to the stub because I didn't change it from the previous build.

?

*Google Google click click Ctrl+F Ctrl+F*

Huh. So you're right. I've never heard of that particular abuse before.

One more thing: what is the Hellephant's general strategy? Just attacking repeatedly? I'll take care of statting it up with its relevant abilities, by the way.

EDIT: Running the numbers, I actually only have to keep a few things in mind because Hellephant's abilities get into "omghax" territory.

[Uncle Pine]

?

*Google Google click click Ctrl+F Ctrl+F*

Huh. So you're right. I've never heard of that particular abuse before.

One more thing: what is the Hellephant's general strategy? Just attacking repeatedly? I'll take care of statting it up with its relevant abilities, by the way.

EDIT: Running the numbers, I actually only have to keep a few things in mind because Hellephant's abilities get into "omghax" territory.
Yes, mainly full-attacking or using 12 breath attacks/turn in case normal damage is ineffective. And I actually forgot to make Hellephant a 12-headed Laernian Hellephant. I'll add it because it could make a difference.

EDIT: Thanks in advance for statting Hellephant up :) I'll also try to post full stats as soon as I get my books back.

[Heliomance]

That may be what goes on IC, but even if the character would logically have had Festering Anger before hearing of the challenge, I'd still count it as prep time because it's unambiguously being done OOC as a way to prepare. In a TO environment, that's what makes the most sense to me. *shrug* Just throwing it out there in case someone else tries Cancer Mage.

I'll post the stats in-thread. rockdeworld apparently took a vacation from the forum and Belial is hesitating, so I want to at least reveal this. Poke this thread if it falls off for a while and it seems I've forgotten.

Eh... I feel that, fluff-wise, non-specific preparation that the character would have done regardless of the challenge shouldn't count towards prep time. So a level 20 necromancer entry should kinda be assumed to have an army of undead already, because that's what necromancers do. Similarly, I sort of feel that any spells cast more than 20 weeks before hearing of the challenge shouldn't be disallowed, because while it would ping Ultio's Portfolio Sense, it wouldn't let him know that you intend harm to Sarin - because, at the point you're casting the spells, you don't.

[Kazyan]

Eh... I feel that, fluff-wise, non-specific preparation that the character would have done regardless of the challenge shouldn't count towards prep time. So a level 20 necromancer entry should kinda be assumed to have an army of undead already, because that's what necromancers do. Similarly, I sort of feel that any spells cast more than 20 weeks before hearing of the challenge shouldn't be disallowed, because while it would ping Ultio's Portfolio Sense, it wouldn't let him know that you intend harm to Sarin - because, at the point you're casting the spells, you don't.

I would consider a RAI argument, but RAI is currently sobbing in a corner after writing "I didn't mean it" on the walls with its blood several dozen times.


Yes, mainly full-attacking or using 12 breath attacks/turn in case normal damage is ineffective. And I actually forgot to make Hellephant a 12-headed Laernian Hellephant. I'll add it because it could make a difference.

EDIT: Thanks in advance for statting Hellephant up :) I'll also try to post full stats as soon as I get my books back.

Laernian, hmm. A lot of Hellephant's numbers are "enough" or "I stopped adding pluses", but there are two I'm keeping in mind. I'm approximating things, and I think the fight goes like this:

Round 1:You enter the vault, yank your technicolor tenactle-hydra-elephant off the back of your head, and set it down on the floor.

Sarin takes a stance and then casually flies adjacent to it in a jagged way, which prevents Hellephant from figuring out how to hit her on the way there. She tags the elephant with her hair. It doesn't seem to do anything.

Round 2: Hellephant trumpets from twelve heads and tries to slam into her. The kick connects, with a loud snapping sound, and Sarin screams, but does not die. (Hellephant's damage with a slam, before any mitigation from whatever Sarin may have, is approximately 250.) Before he can continue swinging, Sarin lashes out with her hair again, which again is ineffective--but in that same motion, she slides back 10 feet. That's still in Hellephant's range, so his tentacles comes crashing down on her shoulder. (~150.) Again, Sarin screams and is obviously wounded, so she slides away again.

Sarin's wounds start to heal. She flies past Hellephant and swings her fist at him. It goes "thump" against his hide. Sarin ends up about 60 feet away from Hellephant, approximately in her starting position.

Round 3: Hellephant takes flight with his technicolor wings and approaches Sarin within 10 feet. He takes another attempt at slamming into her, but that passes right through her. In response, Sarin punches ineffectually and slides back 10 feet, out of Hellephant's range.

Sarin steps back into her previous position and, apparently prepared for defending herself, tags Hellephant with her hair. Again, nothing.

Round 4: Hellephant decides this isn't working and just blasts her with 12 gouts of fire. Sarin looks up at Hellephant after the fire subsides, unimpressed. Hellephant "steps" backwards 5 feet.

Sarin flies forward 10 feet and swings with her fists six times, and tags Hellephant with her hair. One of her swings actually hits a weak point, but Hellephant does not reach. Sarin looks up at its mutliple heads, and a twinkle of understanding crosses her eyes.

Round 5: Hellephant decides on more close-quarters swining. A slam and a tentacle, both of which connect and pretty severely wound Sarin. Both of her reactive backwards flights take her out of range of any more carnage, though.

Sarin flies by, failing with a "chop" fist strike and ending up 90 feet above Hellephant.

Round 6: Hellephant flies up and blasts her with lightning. Sarin tenses up and gets a huge bundle of burn marks, even though she's dodging some of the individual lightning bolts.

Sarin does another flyby chop, which fails again. She starts looking at Krink.

Round 6: Hellephant flies over and blasts her with acid. The scent of vinegar fills the air, and Sarin looks pretty thoroughly exfoliated, but is somehow still fighting.

Sarin flies over to Krink and tags him with her hair. Krink drops. She looks a little better off now, but comparatively, not by much.

Round 7: Hellephant flies over and blasts her with acid (but avoids Krink for obvious reasons), to much the same effects. Sarin looks a little delirious right now.

Sarin rapidly swings at Krink with her fists six times, and once with her hair. Krink shrivels and expires. Sarin takes a deep breath, apparently feeling better, then turns to face Hellephant again.

Round 7: Hellephant blasts her with lightning. Sarin endures the burn marks.

Sarin flies adjacent to Hellephant and chops, to no avail.

Round 8: Hellephant slams and uses a tentacle. Only the tentacle actually connects, and Sarin punches/backtracks as usual.

Sarin does a flyby chop. Nothing happens.

Rounds 9-12: Hellephant blasts Sarin with various breath weapons, and Sarin does flyby chops. Sarin gets a hit on round 11, which severs one of Hellphant's heads, but it doesn't make much of a dent in Hellephant's ability to fight. It grows back twelve seconds later, anyway.

On round 12, as Hellephant's dust blast washes over Sarin's brutalized body, she smiles. Finally, she is torn apart.

Is it still "congratulations" if I pretty severely overestimated the difficulty of this encounter?

[Nightraiderx]

I'm tempted to at least try this before the stats go out but no idea how to go about it fully yet.
Seems the idea is: touch/ff with massive damage attached, so I had an idea using the mage slayer feat line.

Feats being used: Mage slayer/ Pierce magical Concealment/Pierce magical Protection, Psionic Weapon, Deep Impact, Sacred Vitality
sneak up (using darkstalker/ dark template) and attempt to sneak attack cou-de gra using a high crit weapon while using the pierce magical protection,
deep impact and hopefully get past her concealment using pierce magical concealment. I may think of using divine feats (since they are neither a spell or an SLA)
to become immune to ability drain/damage. So tentatively you have spell-less LE paladin 4/ Ranger 2/Hexblade 3/ Mage-hunter x (mind blank and nondetection)/ Dark template 1

curious, do non spell-based magic items trigger Ultio's wrath? because there are magic items that don't require or mimick a spell in order to be made.

[Extra Anchovies]

As per ELH, as Wyrmling dragonwrought kobolds are Small, a Great Wyrm dragonwrought kobold becomes Colossal at 3rd level and Colossal+ at 15th level. I forgot to add this part to the stub because I didn't change it from the previous build.

Do DWKs follow draconic age categories? Where's the RAW on that? Is this under the assumption that DWKs are true dragons?

[sonofzeal]

Do DWKs follow draconic age categories? Where's the RAW on that? Is this under the assumption that DWKs are true dragons?
The latter. It's very much RAW-over-RAI and purely due to poor wording on defining what a "true dragon".

[Uncle Pine]

Is it still "congratulations" if I pretty severely overestimated the difficulty of this encounter?
I'm not sure if "overestimated" refers to Sarin's or Hellephant's capability to withstand her/his opponent, but in the latter case I'll gladly stat Hellephant (although it would require some time) as I'm pretty confident that he should not have problems, especially with a Colossal+ Hulking Hurler backing him up.
In any case this is your challenge: it's your job to state whether or not it's "congratulations". :smallsmile:


Do DWKs follow draconic age categories? Where's the RAW on that? Is this under the assumption that DWKs are true dragons?
Yes.
Races of the Dragon, probably around page 40.
No. It is under the assumption that DWK are "standard dragons" (which btw isn't a defined term).

[Extra Anchovies]

Yes.
Races of the Dragon, probably around page 40.
No. It is under the assumption that DWK are "standard dragons" (which btw isn't a defined term).

Oh, wow. Never noticed that about kobolds. Does one of the templates applied key its size off age category, then?

You're also right about DWKs being in their own little undefined category; they are neither True Dragons nor Lesser Dragons. Other examples of dragon-types that aren't in either of those bins would be Half-Dragons and Draconic creatures, but unlike those DWK isn't a template, so it doesn't fit in their category either. There really should've been RotD errata.

[Kazyan]

I'm not sure if "overestimated" refers to Sarin's or Hellephant's capability to withstand her/his opponent, but in the latter case I'll gladly stat Hellephant (although it would require some time) as I'm pretty confident that he should not have problems, especially with a Colossal+ Hulking Hurler backing him up.
In any case this is your challenge: it's your job to state whether or not it's "congratulations". :smallsmile:

I overestimated Sarin; Hellephant went roughly how he should, and any estimate corrections would only have changed the exact number of rounds by 1 or maybe 2. You can have the Congrats then, since you won just like the others. I'll add you to the list.


I'm tempted to at least try this before the stats go out but no idea how to go about it fully yet.
Seems the idea is: touch/ff with massive damage attached, so I had an idea using the mage slayer feat line.

Feats being used: Mage slayer/ Pierce magical Concealment/Pierce magical Protection, Psionic Weapon, Deep Impact, Sacred Vitality
sneak up (using darkstalker/ dark template) and attempt to sneak attack cou-de gra using a high crit weapon while using the pierce magical protection,
deep impact and hopefully get past her concealment using pierce magical concealment. I may think of using divine feats (since they are neither a spell or an SLA)
to become immune to ability drain/damage. So tentatively you have spell-less LE paladin 4/ Ranger 2/Hexblade 3/ Mage-hunter x (mind blank and nondetection)/ Dark template 1

curious, do non spell-based magic items trigger Ultio's wrath? because there are magic items that don't require or mimick a spell in order to be made.

Non-spell magic items are okay. Can I get a few more details on your build, such as race/numbers for to-hit/sneaking/damage?

[Uncle Pine]

I overestimated Sarin; Hellephant went roughly how he should, and any estimate corrections would only have changed the exact number of rounds by 1 or maybe 2. You can have the Congrats then, since you won just like the others. I'll add you to the list.
Nice! This was my very first TO challenge, so I'll definitely come back to fully stat Krink and his Hellephant... In a couple of weeks :smallredface:
I'm looking forward to the big reveal!


Oh, wow. Never noticed that about kobolds. Does one of the templates applied key its size off age category, then?
The only template applied to Krink is symbiotic: his size is a direct consequence of the way ELH rules on advancing Great Wyrms interact with the Dragonwrought feat. All the other templates are applied to Hellephant and none of them alter his original size (Huge).

[Kazyan]

Nightraiderx, do you still want to try this?

If not, I can reveal the stats.

[(Un)Inspired]

I know every challenger deserves a shot at the old gal but I'm itching to know her stats.

[ninjamaster1991]

May as well run a last-minute build:
Evolved Undead * 1200 Necropolitan Human
Lion Totem Wolf Spirit Totem Barbarian 1/Monk 1/Fighter 18
Feats: Quicken SLA, Spring Attack

Prechallenge preparation:
1) Reach level 20
2) Hang out in a fast-time plane, possibly near a Negative Energy Plane gate until I gain an finite but arbitrarily large number of Evolved Undead templates. With 1200, I get +2400 to Strength and Charisma, and ~100 uses/day of each non-converted spell, ergo kosher, SLA.

I spend the week finding my way across the planes and to the battle.

Round 1: Quickened Haste, pouncing FoB. If she's flying, I jump and Spring Attack. I have somewhere in the range of +1200 for to-hit and damage for each of five normal attacks followed by four trip checks, each with a bonus attack. If she isn't immune, she's probably on the ground.
Round 2: ORAORAORAORAORA
Round 3: MUDAMUDAMUDAMUDA
Round 4+: See rounds 1-2.

[Kazyan]

The level limit is 20, not NI.

[ninjamaster1991]

Whoops, didn't see the LA line. That throws a wrench into the plans.

Dustform/Incarnate Construct won't work, as the former specifies living creatures. An Elan Cancer Mage would work just as well, but feels cheaper...

You know what? I don't care.
1) (Optional) Savage Species Ritual of Alignment: Fire
2) (Also optional) Spend week performing to earn money
3) Spend alotted cash on Necklaces of Fireballs
4) Sidle up next to her, possibly involving HiPS and/or invisibility
4) Fail both saving throws

[Kazyan]

You know what? I don't care.
1) (Optional) Savage Species Ritual of Alignment: Fire
2) (Also optional) Spend week performing to earn money
3) Spend alotted cash on Necklaces of Fireballs
4) Sidle up next to her, possibly involving HiPS and/or invisibility
4) Fail both saving throws

Details, please? She's 60 feet in the air and 100 feet horizontally from you, I need to know your stealth numbers, you should specify what Type (I, II, VII, etc.) of necklaces you'll be using and how you're getting the item to voluntarily fail its saving throw, etc..

[ninjamaster1991]

Details, please? She's 60 feet in the air and 100 feet horizontally from you, I need to know your stealth numbers, you should specify what Type (I, II, VII, etc.) of necklaces you'll be using and how you're getting the item to voluntarily fail its saving throw, etc..

Let's see, a [Fire] Pixie Factotum 15 with a total of 5 LA would do nicely.
8 18 12 15 10 10 -> 4 28 12 22 14 16
Darkstalker, Spectral Skirmisher, Skill Focus for Hide and Move Silently, and Stealthy.
Distance is covered by natural flight.
Type doesn't matter, as it's a flat 150 gp for each d6 of damage. This means that the ~500,000 gp from 2/3 20th level WBL gets 3333d6 damage regardless of the size of beads. I'll look like a rapper with the number of necklaces, but it's definitely effective.
Max (18) ranks in Hide and Move Silently plus bonuses (Size, stats, masterwork tools, and Cunning Knowledge going to MS) makes +56 Move Silently, +70 Hide. If she has See Invisible, it's only +45 Hide.
Saving throws are easy, as

A creature can voluntarily forego a saving throw and willingly accept a spell’s result. Even a character with a special resistance to magic can suppress this quality.
'Can', not 'must', so I keep my immunity - and the item doesn't say I need to take damage, just fail my save. This won't work for the items, but that's moot due to the fact that if I have 60 necklaces, around 18 will fail a single DC 14 save. Each of them will cause several more explosions, and a chain reaction will engulf both of us in a fiery explosion.

[Kazyan]

Alright. I'm going to assume you're using mostly Type VII--60 of them or so--to reduce bling weight.

You enter the vault and start sneaking, in flight, towards Sarin. (You move 60 feet with two move actions at half-speed. Half-speed comes with the territory of Hide checks, unless you want the relevant penalty.) Sarin glances in your direction, then darts to a spot 5 feet in front of you. Her hair reaches out and touches you. (38 Charisma damage takes you out.)

[Kazyan]

Incidentally, I'm coming up with ideas for Challenge #4, which will be a bit more lax, won't stick to preestablished-only abilities, and will have a much more difficult target.

[Nightraiderx]

Nightraiderx, do you still want to try this?

If not, I can reveal the stats.

Nah, just go ahead and reveal the stats, I was just curious if the mage slayer feat line would've had any affect on her apparent buffs.

[Inevitability]

Incidentally, I'm coming up with ideas for Challenge #4, which will be a bit more lax, won't stick to preestablished-only abilities, and will have a much more difficult target.

Is it a kobold? I hope it is a kobold. This challenge had a distinct lack of kobolds.

[Uncle Pine]

Is it a kobold? I hope it is a kobold. This challenge had a distinct lack of kobolds.
Actually, my entry was a kobold. Not that Krink really needed to be a kobold.

[ben-zayb]

Actually, my entry was a kobold. Not that Krink really needed to be a kobold.The size increase exploit was quite nifty, though. Haven't seen it being didcussed before.

[Kazyan]

Okay, the interest in this seems to have ended, so I'm posting the stats now. As soon as I can get the formatting of OpenOffice and the forum's WYSIWYG editor to cooperate, anyway.

[Kazyan]

First, a foreword.

I seem to make many more mistakes than ordinary people, I look like an idiot whenever I try to get clever, and often, I feel like I don't actually know how to play D&D 3.5. But I've built this challenge as well as my understanding of the rules and optimization will allow. Please don't lynch me if there's a bunch of mistakes in how Sarin works mechanically, or if I've misinterpreted something that would have let one of you win.

I was hoping for some PO entries like Crake's before jumping straight to the nuclear options, because Sarin was intended to be possible to kill with lots of PO if you know what you were getting into. The Playground is more TO than PO these days, though, so I should have expected this turnout.

Challenge #4 is in the works.




Sarin
Medium Outsider (Incorporeal, Native, Shapechanger)
Hit Dice: 48d8+1200 (1584 HP)
Speed: 120 ft., fly 210 ft. (good)
Initiative: +21 (always goes last)
AC: 64 (+21 Dexterity, +12 insight, +12 luck, +7 deflection, +1 weapon supremacy, +1 haste), touch 64, flat-footed – (natural cunning)
Base Attack/Grapple: +48/--
Attacks: Unarmed Strike +102/+102/+102/+97/+92/+87 (2d6+39 and energy drain) or hair: incorporeal touch +95 (2d6+29 Cha damage and energy drain)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. (10 ft. with hair)
Special Attacks: Energy Drain 2
Special Qualities: 10-foot steps, Bonus Feats, Change Shape, DR 30/--, Haste, immunities, Impetuous Endurance, Improved Evasion, incorporeal traits, Natural Cunning, outsider traits, Paragon (fire and cold resistance 10, DR 10/epic, SR 55, Fast Healing 20, SLAs), telepathy 100 ft., true seeing, weapon aptitude
Saves: Fort +48, Ref +58, Will +46
Abilities: Str --, Dex 53, Con 34, Int 28, Wis 30, Cha 25
Skills: Balance +82, Concentration +73, Escape Artist +82, Heal +71, Hide +82, Knowledge (Arcana, Religion, The Planes, Nature) +70, Listen +71, Martial Lore +70, Move Silently +82, Profession (Masseuse) +71, Sense Motive +71, Spellcraft +70, Spot +71, Tumble +82
Feats: Life Drain, Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike)B, Improved Unarmed StrikeB, Evasive Reflexes, DodgeB, Mindsight, MobilityB, Weapon Specialization (Unarmed Strike)B, Snap Kick, Combat ReflexesB, Power Attack, Greater Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike)B ,Combat FocusB, Versatile Unarmed Strike, Greater Weapon Specialization (Unarmed Strike)B, Flyby Attack, Combat DefenseB, Melee Weapon Mastery (Bludgeoning)B, Deflect ArrowsB, Exceptional Deflection, Sidestep, Weapon Supremacy (Unarmed Strike)B, Improved ToughnessB, Elusive Target, Epic Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike)B, Superior Unarmed Strike, Robilar's GambitB ,Epic Weapon Specialization (Unarmed Strike)B, Damage Reduction (x4), Combat ExpertiseB, Improved Combat ExpertiseB, Damage Reduction (x6)B
Environment: Ultio's Vault
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 30?
Treasure: +1 Aptitude Ghost Touch Necklace of Natural Attacks (Fists/Incorporeal Touch), Ring of Freedom of Movement
Alignment: True neutral

You see what looks almost like an ordinary—if alarmingly underweight—human woman in a flowing white kimono, hovering 60 feet above the ground, staring blankly with the expression of someone who lost all hope decades ago. Her straight gray hair descends well past her feet, and is ephemerally bundled together, wispy tendrils of itself writhing in circles.

Under true seeing, Spot, etc:

You see a humanoid creature that may have once been a woman of some human-sized race, judging by the remains of her figure. Terribly emaciated—reminding you of some sort of undead—and with a blotchy blue tint all over her skin, she wears a ratty old black nightgown. A ruby pendant hangs from her neck, and a silver-etched gold ring wraps around one finger. Long-subsided magical runes are tattooed in white and blue all over her translucent form.

10-footsteps (Ex): Sarin can take 10-foot steps, as if she had trained with a Sparring Dummy of the Master.

Bonus Feats (Ex): At 1st level, Sarin gets a bonus combat-oriented feat in addition to the feat that any 1st-level character gets. She gains an additional bonus feat at 2nd level and every two levels thereafter. These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as fighter bonus feats. Sarin must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums.

Change Shape (Su): Sarin can assume the form of any Small or Medium humanoid.

Energy Drain 2 (Su): As the Soul Eater class feature.

Haste (Su): Sarin is under a continuous haste effect.

Immunities (Ex): Sarin has the same immunities that construct does, similar to a KeeperFF.

Impetuous Endurance (Ex): As the Knight class feature.

Improved Evasion (Ex): As the Rogue special ability.

Natural Cunning (Ex): Sarin possesses innate cunning and logical ability. This gives her immunity to maze spells, p revents her from ever becoming lost, and enables her to track enemies. Further, she is never caught flat-footed.

Paragon(Ex): Sarin has the benefits of the Paragon template.

True Seeing (Su): Sarin is under a continuous true seeing effect.

Weapon Aptitude (Ex): As the Warblade class feature.



AvatarVecna was correct about Paragon, though her numbers still require some explanation.

Sarin gets high Unarmed Strike and incorporeal touch damage due to the +20 bonus from Paragon, her various Weapon Supremacy tree feats, and the Aptitude enchantment on her Necklace of Natural Attacks. Aptitude grants a stacking +1 bonus to attack and damage for every weapon-specific feat you have, if Aptitude is already on that weapon, and keys any other weapon-specific blah blah you know how that part works. Sarin has a whole bunch of Unarmed Strike specific feats, so her punching damage is pretty high, and her to-hit is outrageous. Due to the Ghost Touch on her necklace, she can use her unarmed strikes to damage corporeal creatures. Her incorporeal touch attack gains the +20 bonus from Paragon, nabs the 2d6 base damage from Superior Unarmed Strike (it was initially 1d6+0, like a Joystealer), and also gets the Weapon Specialization derivatives to pitch in. Finally, +1 from the necklace. Precision damage applied to ability damage becomes negative energy damage per Rules Compendium, but I haven't seen anything about non-precision damage, so I think this works. The attack coming from her hair is fluff.

Many of her special abilities are lifted from existing class features or monsters, and others (10-foot step and Paragon) just allow other RAW abilites. She wouldn't qualify for Weapon Specialization and such without Weapon Aptitude, by the way, as she lacks actual Fighter levels.

Necessary immunities are there, along with a few unnecessary ones, but nothing you wouldn't expect to run into one way or another as a matter of adventuring except for Impetuous Endurance. Natural Cunning is a headscratcher, because you'd only find flat-footedness immunity on Minotaurs and anything with Foresight. But it happens. Contruct immunities covers many contruct traits, but not eating, sleeping, or breathing. Because Sarin is incorporeal, she actually can't eat, but she's immune to all the detriments of starvation except for looking the part. It's actually an interesting fluff idea—incorporeal creatures are massless and thus need no calories to move...what happens when they starve?

If you'll notice, her numbers are really high, but with preparation, a high PO character could probably take her down if they had adequate defenses. Sarin doesn't have Regeneration.

DR 30/-- comes from the Damage Reduction epic feat. It didn't say whether it stacked with template-based DR, so I went with the defualt rules of non-stacking. DR 10/epic is superfluous.

Her equipment is incorporeal. It turns corporeal when she's dead because fluff.

Fighting her in melee is hard because of the numbers, but also because she can use Robilar's Gambit and Evasive Reflexes to just step out of the way after every attack. Because the choice to activate Robilar's Gambit is done “at the start of your action”, Sarin can bring it up just by taking the free-action-out-of-turn of speaking, so this works even on your first turn. Sidestep even allows her to attack before stepping, once per round. If you don't have some way to counter it, she can just keep dancing out of your way because her hair's reach means you provoke AoOs when getting within 5', which she uses to retreat...and then you have to approach again, but then you provoke another AoO...yeah. She only gets 22 attacks of opportunity (converted into 10-foot steps) outside of Robilar's Gambit, though, so if you can run her ragged, she'll stop. This assumes you don't get tagged out from her first Sidestep attack, which will usually be her hair. And Sarin rarely rolls a 1 when she tags you, because Weapon Supremacy (Unarmed Strike) lets her take 10 on an unarmed strike attack roll once per round, and Aptitude extends that to her incorporeal touch.

If she's reliably hitting AC (or needs a 20 to hit), she can shunt some of her attack bonus to AC or to damage via Improved Combat Expertise or Power Attack, respectively.

Because of Combat Focus and Combat Defense, she can use an immediate action to designate an alpha-striker as her Dodge target while in Combat Focus. You might provoke an AoO getting in close, which she'll use to attack and get Combat Focus running—and step away with Sidestep. If that happens, the payoff is that Elusive Target can work instantly, which means she's basically immune to Power Attack if you don't play your cards right on your first turn. (I'd thought this combo worked a little differently at first, but it didn't change any fight results or information anyone acquired.)

Non-melee attack forms are difficult, but not impossible. Exceptional Deflection means she can deny one ranged attack per round, but if you have more than one, you're actually rolling against AC and miss chance. Mindsight and +71 to Spot and Listen mean that stealth-based tactics are difficult, but as was demonstrated by Sneaksoftly and others, not impossible.

Onto the details of each attempt:

Uncle Pine's Chicken Infested Commoner: Sarin wasn't able to breathe, but she had 68 rounds before she started being in any actual danger, and incorporeality meant that the chickens couldn't harm her. Since the time limit was 20 rounds, the attempt failed. Also, I hadn't clearly stated the allowed sources before this, but this attempt involved non-Compendium Dragon Magazine, for what that's worth.

Crake's Charger: +40 to hit only hits on a natural 20. Sarin forgets to take her AoO with her hair to deal with the charging, because I made a mistake. He rolls two natural 20s, and one of them gets by the 50% miss chance for incorporeality, dealing 154 damage after DR. Sarin endures it, then kills him.

Ben-zayb's Imp of Cania: Utterances are SLAs, SLAs work like spells, and spells have a 50% miss chance against incorporeal creatures. You rolled poorly. Sarin retaliated.

SowZ's Everything-smasher: Incorporeal creatures can't be harmed by nonmagical stuff, and 20 rounds later, she was still fine, albeit holding her breath.

Ben-zayb's Lightning Imps: Diplomacy doesn't work because mind control, and Ultio can get her to lower her immunity for refreshing his mind control spells one way or another. As for the Truenaming, same deal as the first attempt, except that you roll well this time.

JDL's Sneaksoftly: Sarin is alseep (-10 to Listen) and distracted by nightmares/mind control/I-have-no-mouth-and-I-must-scream (+5 to DC). You get a result of 65 on Move Silently due to Skill Mastery. You get two checks for the two movements closer to her, which she takes -12 and then -6 on opposing due to the starting distances of 120 and 60 feet. Sarin misses the first Listen check by 4, and the second check by 2. Mindsight doesn't help because she's unconscious. She isn't subject to crits because of construct immunites, which killed your plan. 6d6+13 physical damage came out to 2 damage after DR, and 1d6 electricity damage came out to 2, for a total of 4 damage. Then she woke up.

Dire Stirge's Pazuzu summoner, Take 1: Already explained.

Dire Stirge's Black Hole engine: Already explained.

Dire Stirge's Pazuzu summoner, Take 2: Mindsight doesn't work cross-planes because the concept of distance doesn't really apply if the two points are on different planes. Pazuzu appears in the Ethereal and Sarin is still clueless. It's too late once something happens that she can actually perceive.

AvatarVecna's Bowler: While you're silent, she can't hear you, and Mindsight doesn't help because she is unconscious. You sneak up sucessfully. +75 to hit will succeed except on a 1. She's not flat-footed because of Natural Cunning, but Deflect Arrows requires that she be aware of the attack, which she's not. 7000 damage exceeds her HP several times over, so she dies.

UnclePine's Krink the Elephant Lover: Hellephant does hundreds of damage per hit, needs a 1 to miss, has AC over 200, and is immune to both Charisma damage and energy drain. The only way Sarin could affect him is by using Versatile Unarmed Strike to deal slashing damage to one of his regenerating heads, and she needed a natural 20 to hit. Her evasive fighting style made physical strikes a pain to land, but 12 breath weapons at once with a save DC of 100+ seemed to work better. ~170 damage per round eventually took her out, despite her recharging by Life Draining Krink for 150+ spare HP.

ninjamaster1991's Necklace of Fireballs Bomb: Logistical errors prevented the bomb from actually going off, but I'll tell you right now that it wasn't going to work. Impetuous Endurance, Improved Evasion, and +58 to Reflex saves means that she always saves and avoids the damage from a fireball. Even if she didn't have Impetuous Endurance, the expected value of the damage would be..the math is tricky, but something like 300. Still not enough to kill her.

Some observations:

Everyone who submitted a PO entry gave up without retrying. Everyone who submitted TO kept trying until they won.
3/4 of the winners used SLAs or some other source of a spell that technically weaseled past the portfolio sense, even though this was basically a noncaster challenge.
People tried to use more than 1 week of prep time through various arguments.
Just because the rules are informal doesn't mean that they won't be abused in the same way ordinary RAW is.
Challenge #4 will have to be much, much harder.

[Uncle Pine]

Everyone who submitted a PO entry gave up without retrying. Everyone who submitted TO kept trying until they won.

You could say TO is all about never leaving a loss to ripen into capitulation. :smallwink:

About Sarin's stats: I don't really enjoy checking lots of numbers and stats (which is probably why I don't bother with epic levels and pre-generated NPCs), so I'll just trust you on those.

[AvatarVecna]

Firstly, thank you for providing such an interesting challenge for us. If you're willing to accept assistance, I'm willing to supply it in making the next challenge; I much prefer this "magic TO buzzwords won't save you" kind of challenge.

Secondly, while I agree that there's probably a PO build that could've torn her apart quite well, she's right near the limit of "PO can't do anything". Furthermore, where PO begins and TO ends is rather vague; Chicken-Infested Commoner is definitely TO; Dragonwrought Kobold cheese is definitely TO; Hulking Hurler/Cancer Mage with infinite setup time is definitely TO. Hulking Hurler with no Cancer Mage, no LA buyoff, no templates, no grafts, and no custom items, increasing Str through a completely legitimate series of Barbarian PrCs? I'd be willing to argue that that's within PO...although I will admit the trick with covering a boulder with Adamantine is probably TO.

Thirdly, I figured out Paragon via A) you saying the tattoos indicated a "make everything better" vibe (post #33), and B) the rogue who used the fire/cold/electricity scythe had the fire and cold damage reduced, but not the electricity (the Paragon epic template gives fire and cold resistance, but not electricity resistance). That, and the fact that the template seemed so appropriate for the challenge, convinced me of its use.

I maintain that a Hulking Hurler/Cancer Mage would've already had Str: NI by the point the challenge occurred in the world of the game, but Str: NI wasn't necessary, so I'll drop it for now.

Incidentally, I'm going to try and put together a build that can beat Sarin without using arguably TO stuff. Honestly, the biggest problem is going to be hitting her AC without custom spell items. Once again, thank you for the challenge.

[Kazyan]

Firstly, thank you for providing such an interesting challenge for us. If you're willing to accept assistance, I'm willing to supply it in making the next challenge; I much prefer this "magic TO buzzwords won't save you" kind of challenge.

I'll send you my current ideas soonish--I'd love your help in developing something more satisfying and resilient.

[Extra Anchovies]

Question regarding Sarin's stats: did you actually procedurally build the character, adding RHD, classes, and templates to produce a mechanically-replicable result, or is it a pile of abilities tacked on all at once?

Regardless, this challenge was a lot of fun to watch.

[Kazyan]

Question regarding Sarin's stats: did you actually procedurally build the character, adding RHD, classes, and templates to produce a mechanically-replicable result, or is it a pile of abilities tacked on all at once?

Regardless, this challenge was a lot of fun to watch.

While I wouldn't be surprised if all of Sarin's features could be replicated in 48 Hit Dice using existing sources, she was created as if she were a homebrew monster that pulled from abilities pre-existing in the books. Monsters don't need to have "builds" if you're homebrewing; you just give them the abilities and numbers you want.

It would be very difficult to create something like her without doing so. Or, at least, difficult for me.

[ben-zayb]

Ooh, after seeing the stats I'll tell you a mistake with Lightning Imps:.50% rolls are against Corporeal sources only, which the imps aint.

Other than that..hmm, all my SLAs ( level 1 and level 2 effects) can be replaced with either a Su (Naberius) and Swarm attack by finding a way to turn into a Swarm. Not exactly a hard thing to do, as I don't need big flashy powerful effects.

[Nightraiderx]

Alittle reach would've negated the 5 ft step she got with robilars.

The DR however would be very difficult for me to deal with.
An interesting monster build regardless.

[Inevitability]

*suddenly realizes something*

Profession (masseuse)? Wait what. :smallconfused:

[Zeb]

Incorporeal and power attack? seems like a waste and i'm not sure she qualified.

[Kazyan]

Profession is a fluff Easter egg (something she could do before the experiments) that I forgot to mention after the Knowledge checks because I was in full TO mode. Whoops.

Power Attack: Whoops. Never mattered, though.

[Extra Anchovies]

*suddenly realizes something*

Profession (masseuse)? Wait what. :smallconfused:

So that's why Ultio was keeping her alive :smallwink:

[Inevitability]

So that's why Ultio was keeping her alive :smallwink:

I'm sorry, I'll be off to the old Crack Pairings thread. Hopefully they have some of their brain bleach left there. :smalleek:

Just kidding...

[Uncle Pine]

Profession (masseuse)? Wait what. :smallconfused:

What? Didn't you notice that? Or did you think Ultio was the kind of wizard that goes around preventing young and beautiful kimono girls from committing suicide for free?

EDIT: Apparently I've been swordsaged multiple times in like 5 hours. :smallconfused:

[Uncle Pine]

'Been a while. I finally managed to complete my build. Calcs should be correct, but numbers were fairly high so I may have made some mistakes.
Here they are:

[Symbiotic guardian, anarchic, half-farspawn, half-amethyst dragon, axiomiatic, entropic, half-fey, winter unseelie fey, half-battle dragon, celestial, phrenic, half-celestial, pseudonatural (non-epic), half-black dragon, spellwarp, 43 more times half-a dragon (blue, brass, bronze, brown, chaos, copper, crystal, deep, ectoplasmic, emerald, ethereal, fang, force, gold, green, howling, incarnum, li lung, lung wang, mercury, mist, obsidian, oceanus, orange sodium, pan lung, prismatic, purple energy, pyroclastic, radiant, rattelyr, rust, sand, sapphire, shadow, silver, song, steel, styx, tarterian, topaz, tun mi lung, and white yellow salt), pseudonatural (epic), half-red dragon, 12-headed Laernan, woodling, half-troll, dark, shadow, paragon, greenbound, Lolth-touched, voidmind elephant / Great Wyrm dragonwrought kobold Fighter 2/Warblade 1]
(total LA +1, ECL 4)
Colossal Aberration
HD: 2d10+6 plus 1d12+3 (31 hp)
Initiative: +5
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
AC: 7 (-8 size, +5 Dex), touch 7, flat-footed 7
BAB/Grapple: +3/+19
Attack: Unarmed strike -8 melee (1d2-3 nonlethal)
Full attack: Unarmed strike -8 melee (1d2-3 nonlethal) and tentacle rake +297 melee (2d8+260)
Space/Reach: 30 ft./30 ft.
SA: Trample 2d8+362 (Reflex half DC 274), spell-like abilities, psi-like abilities, smite law 1/day, smite chaos 1/day, smite evil 2/day, breath weapon 6d8 damage (Reflex half DC 132), 1/day/head each except where specified (60-ft. line of force*3, 30-ft. cone of sonic energy*4, 60-ft. line of acid*5, 30-ft. cone of cold*2, 30-ft. cone of fire*4, 60-ft. line of random energy, 30-ft. cone of light, 30-ft. cone of flesh-corrosive gas*2, 30-ft. cone of force, 60-ft. line of electricity, 30-ft. cone of fire and sonic energy, 30-ft. cone of shadows, 30-ft. cone of electrically charged gas, 30-ft. cone of dehydration, 60-ft. line of lightning, 60-ft. line of fire, 60-ft. line of lightning, plus 14 more not listed in PHB or Draconomicon that should be DM-fiated), negative energy ray, winter chill, roar 3/day, water fire 3/day, rend 2d8+375 Str, constrict 2d6+375, improved grab (tentacle rake, sentient tentacle), constant insight, rotting constriction, sentient tentacle, cone of slime, light ray
SQ: Superior low-light vision, scent, blindsense 60 ft., darkvision 120 ft., illuminated eyes, immunity to ability damage, ability drain, acid, air, charms, confusion/insanity, cold, disease, electricity, enchantment spells and effect, energy drain, fire, magical sleep effects, metamorphosis, mind-affecting spells and abilities, paralysis, petrification, poison, sonic and water, fast healing 20, blindsight 60 ft., DR 10/magic and slashing, DR 15/cold iron, DR 15/epic, SR 231, limited SR (positive energy) 35, PR 43, change shape (+2 tentacles, by half-farspawn), linked minds, negative adaption, negative energy aura, iron vulnerability, naturally psionic, spell absorption, mind flayer host, water breathing, cause rain, scent, hide in plain sight, shadow blend, cause fear and mirror image 1/day (CL 20), plane shift 1/day (CL 30), evasion, alternate form (+9 tentacle rakes, by pseudonatural), tremorsense 60 ft., fearless, aura of menace, magic circle against evil, tongues, detach
Saves: Fort +21, Ref +23, Will +33
Abilities: Str 4, Dex 20, Con 16, Int 120, Wis 54, Cha 134
Skills: w/e
Feats: Dragonwrought, 3 more
Alignment: CG
Relevant possessions: Large riverine elephant statue


[Guardian, anarchic, half-farspawn, half-amethyst dragon, axiomiatic, entropic, half-fey, winter unseelie fey, half-battle dragon, celestial, phrenic, half-celestial, pseudonatural (non-epic), half-black dragon, spellwarp, 43 more times half-a dragon (blue, brass, bronze, brown, chaos, copper, crystal, deep, ectoplasmic, emerald, ethereal, fang, force, gold, green, howling, incarnum, li lung, lung wang, mercury, mist, obsidian, oceanus, orange sodium, pan lung, prismatic, purple energy, pyroclastic, radiant, rattelyr, rust, sand, sapphire, shadow, silver, song, steel, styx, tarterian, topaz, tun mi lung, and white yellow salt), pseudonatural (epic), half-red dragon, 12-headed Laernan, woodling, half-troll, dark, shadow, paragon, greenbound, Lolth-touched, voidmind elephant]
Huge Plant (Augmented animal, native, psionic)
HD: 33d8+3069 plus 396 (3729 hp)
Initiative: +25
Speed: 450 ft. (90 squares), fly 990 ft. (good), burrow 180 ft.
AC: ? (-2 size, +21 Des, +230 natural, +12 insight, +12 luck), touch ?, flat-footed ?
BAB/Grapple: +24/+271
Attack: Tentacle rake +297 melee (2d8+260)
Full attack: 33 tentacle rakes +297 melee (2d8+260)
Attack (not transformed): Gore +297 melee (2d8+377) or tentacle +297 melee (1d8+260) or bite +297 melee (2d6+260)
Full attack (not transformed): Slam +297 melee (2d6+260) and 2 stamps +297 melee (2d6+142) and 2 tentacles +297 melee (1d8+142) and sentient tentacle +297 melee (2d6+142) and 12 bites +297 melee (2d6+142) and 2 claws +297 melee (1d8+142); or 12 gores +297 melee (2d8+142) and 2 tentacles +297 melee (1d8+142) and sentient tentacle +297 melee (2d6+142) and 12 bites +297 melee (2d6+142) and 2 claws +297 melee (1d8+142)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft. (15 ft. tentacles)
SA: Trample 2d8+362 (Reflex half DC 274), spell-like abilities, psi-like abilities, smite law 1/day, smite chaos 1/day, smite evil 2/day, breath weapon 6d8 damage (Reflex half DC 132), 1/day/head each except where specified (60-ft. line of force*3, 30-ft. cone of sonic energy*4, 60-ft. line of acid*5, 30-ft. cone of cold*2, 30-ft. cone of fire*4, 60-ft. line of random energy, 30-ft. cone of light, 30-ft. cone of flesh-corrosive gas*2, 30-ft. cone of force, 60-ft. line of electricity, 30-ft. cone of fire and sonic energy, 30-ft. cone of shadows, 30-ft. cone of electrically charged gas, 30-ft. cone of dehydration, 60-ft. line of lightning, 60-ft. line of fire, 60-ft. line of lightning, plus 14 more not listed in PHB or Draconomicon that should be DM-fiated), negative energy ray, winter chill, roar 3/day, water fire 3/day, rend 2d8+375 Str, constrict 2d6+375, improved grab (tentacle rake, sentient tentacle), constant insight, rotting constriction, sentient tentacle, cone of slime, light ray
SQ: Superior low-light vision, scent, blindsense 60 ft., darkvision 120 ft., illuminated eyes, immunity to ability damage, ability drain, acid, air, charms, confusion/insanity, cold, disease, electricity, enchantment spells and effect, energy drain, fire, magical sleep effects, metamorphosis, mind-affecting spells and abilities, paralysis, petrification, poison, sonic and water, fast healing 20, blindsight 60 ft., DR 10/magic and slashing, DR 15/cold iron, DR 15/epic, SR 231, limited SR (positive energy) 35, PR 43, change shape (+2 tentacles, by half-farspawn), linked minds, negative adaption, negative energy aura, iron vulnerability, naturally psionic, spell absorption, mind flayer host, water breathing, cause rain, scent, hide in plain sight, shadow blend, cause fear and mirror image 1/day (CL 20), plane shift 1/day (CL 30), evasion, alternate form (+9 tentacle rakes, by pseudonatural), tremorsense 60 ft., fearless, aura of menace, magic circle against evil, tongues
Saves: Fort +125, Ref +51, Will +42
Abilities: Str 480, Dex 52, Con 196, Int 120, Wis 54, Cha 134
Skills: Bluff +104, Escape Artist +53, Hide +49 (bonus +16 in forested areas), Intimidate +94, Listen +75, Move Silently +55 (bonus +16 in forested areas), Search +87, Spot +75, 18 ranks into every other cross-class skill, leftover ranks spent for things like Profession (statue) and Craft (Cthulhu reference) (total skill ranks 2196)
Feats: Alertness (B), Blind-Fight (B), Combat Reflexes (B), Great Fortitude (B), Improved Initiative (B), Improved Multiattack (B), Power Attack, 11 more
Alignment: CG
CR: 211
Spell-like abilities: At will: blur, charm person, daylight, dimension door, entangle, pass without trace, shield, speak with plants, unhallow; 3/day: blink, blur, detect law, ethereal jaunt, greater dispel magic (CL 15), haste (CL 15), holy aura, protection from law, protection from evil, see invisibility (CL 15), speak with plants; 2/day: true strike; 1/day: aid, animate plants, bless, command plants, confusion (or emotion), control plants, cure serious wounds, detect evil, dispel evil, dominate person (or hold monster), eyebite (or lesser geas), faerie fire (or glitterdust), geas/quest (or mass suggestion), greater invisibility, hallow, hipnotism, holy smite, holy word, implosion, insanity (or mass charm), mass charm monster, mass invisibility, neutralize poison, Otto’s irresistible dance, remove disease, resurrection, scintillating pattern, sleep (or enthrall), stinking cloud, summon monster IX (only pseudonatural animals or vermin), summon monster IX, summon nature’s ally II, summon nature’s ally IV, summon nature’s ally VI, summon nature’s ally VIII, summon nature’s ally IX, Tasha’s hideous laughter (or suggestion), telekinesis, touch of idiocy, wall of thorns. CL 48 unless listed otherwise.
Psi-like abilities: 3/day: defensive precognition, empty mind, intellect fortress, mind thrust, psionic teleport; 1/day: aversion, body adjustment, brain lock, energy current, fission, force screen, psionic blast, psionic dominate, psychic crush, tower of iron will, ultrablast. ML 48.