Help me decide. Sorcerer, Wizard, Bard or warlock

[Chelios]

OK, my team has an assassin/fighter who fights with ranged weapon, a life cleric, an open-hand monk, a moon druid or a halfling grappler fighter( he must decide yet).
I want to play an arcane guys, i really like the sorcerer but i dont like the subclasses... I also like lore bard, book warlock and abjurer wizard...
Help me decide pls...

[Dalebert]

I think wizards still outclass all the other arcanes in sheer power and versatility. They have a LOT of bennies on top of being able to cast the most variety of spells AND being able to cast rituals without preperation. I like the feel of sorcerers and their metamagic but I don't feel like they gave them enough to make up for the array of bennies they rained upon wizards.

Warlocks are very popular. They're practically three different classes depending on which type you pick. Being the only arcane caster, and if you want to be focused on doing that well, definitely go tome warlock. They're hands down the best ritual casters in the game and any three cantrips of your choice from any class lists is a nice perk and unlike me, you won't have to take things like Spare the Dying as one because your party has a cleric. :) Whether or not your party is willing to take frequent short rests will make all the difference though. Playing a lock presents the challenge of resource management. Only 2 spell slots until 11th level!

I've actually contemplated whether I still want to play a lock in the later levels. They seem somewhat front-heavy and seem to really shine right about when they're in the mid levels and their slots are all max level but at that point they've got most of the worthwhile invocations IMHO and you're going up two levels just to get one specific high level spell a day for the most part.

It seems like it might have great synergy with sorcerer as a multi-class. About three to five levels of sorcerer, maybe more, seems like it would go great to help with some extra spell slots for a longer or tougher combat. Lower level spells are more effective in this edition than previous ones and not all of them scale up. Those are the ones to blow low level sorcerer slots on.

[Gwendol]

Lore bard. You get practically all the skills, a lot of good spells, and you get to choose a few spells from any class. It is one of the most versatile classes in the game, and not that hard to build.

[Madfellow]

Perhaps a multiclass? Take two levels of Warlock and then go Lore Bard.

[Jlooney]

While I really like the warlock, I can't advice it as the primary Arcane caster of the party. You can do amazing damage with the Eldritch Blast glass cannon builds, but between the fighter/assassin and the monk your party has damage down pretty good. Even Clerics can put out good damage. The lack of spell slots is really the downside to the warlock. I don't advocate multiclassing due to the lack of ASI's/feat loss and you will gain your abilities so much later than other classes. The single class cleric and the single class monk with overshadow you so hard being 3-5 levels ahead of you if you plan on being a spellcaster of any persuasion.

[Shining Wrath]

Comments as follows:

Your party has divine magic covered, the monk and the fighter will give you damage per round, a life cleric has heavy armor and can tank. The assassin / fighter will give you some skill coverage.

What don't you have so far?
Not much in the way of knowledge skills (Arcana, History, Investigate).
Nothing at all, so far as I can tell, for main social skills (Bluff, Persuade).

The only way to cover both of those is the Bard.

The other thing you lack is arcane spells, and the Bard does that as well.

College of Lore Bard is my recommendation.

[odigity]

Lore bard. You get practically all the skills, a lot of good spells, and you get to choose a few spells from any class. It is one of the most versatile classes in the game, and not that hard to build.

After having a Bard in both my 5e parties for a few weeks, I've come to the conclusion that no party is complete without one. It will double your party's chance of survival.

[Ashrym]

OK, my team has an assassin/fighter who fights with ranged weapon, a life cleric, an open-hand monk, a moon druid or a halfling grappler fighter( he must decide yet).
I want to play an arcane guys, i really like the sorcerer but i dont like the subclasses... I also like lore bard, book warlock and abjurer wizard...
Help me decide pls...

What do you see your arcane caster doing?

There isn't really a bad choice, tbh. Tome warlock would be the way to go for at-will abilities, lore bard is skills and spells, sorcerer is a confined list with metamagic, and wizards will gain rituals and spell variety faster than the others with some school perks. I like diviners, abjurers, and evokers.

[Dalebert]

I'm underwhelmed by the lore bard. I thought it sounded great but it just doesn't seem to compare to what you're giving up for Valor. The extra three skills? Watered down because you get so many anyway as a bard and whichever ones you want plus you get Jack of All Trades so you're kinda decent at everything. All bards get 6 extra any class spells. Lore gets 2 more and a little earlier which is nice but still. They're giving up a lot for that.

[Gwendol]

They get to choose more spells, and there lies their true strength.

[odigity]

I'm underwhelmed by the lore bard. I thought it sounded great but it just doesn't seem to compare to what you're giving up for Valor. The extra three skills? Watered down because you get so many anyway as a bard and whichever ones you want plus you get Jack of All Trades so you're kinda decent at everything. All bards get 6 extra any class spells. Lore gets 2 more and a little earlier which is nice but still. They're giving up a lot for that.

Don't forget Cutting Words is more versatile than Combat Inspiration. Valor is great if you're interested in melee, but if you're certain you don't care for it, then there's an argument to prefer Lore.

[Ashrym]

Cutting words was the draw I was going to mention, too.

Valor bards don't get a lot more skills than other classes because it's only one more skill, plus jack-of-all-trades. That's 5 instead of 4 plus a small bonus until later. Lore bards get 3 more than valor bards and much more than most classes when it comes to skills, plus jack-of-all-trades and peerless skill. That moves lore bards farther ahead of valor bards than valor bards are of other classes, and arguably ahead of rogues when it comes to skills. Peerless skill is a limited resource but it's easy to use on non-proficient skills on top of jack-of-all-trades and ability modifiers to cover any check well. Skills really aren't the draw for everyone.

Extra magical secrets early is another big draw. Spells known have a nice jump and from any class increases versatility in spells.

Cutting words deserves special mention again because it can be applied against initiative and give the entire party a relative boost in the initiative order, or turn a big hit into a miss, or reduce the AoE damage roll to prevent damage to all targets because damage is rolled once for everyone.

There is a fair bit of lore bard draw depending on what the player is looking for.

The big draw on valor bards over lore bards is better weapons, armor, and extra attacks. That's gives a damage option not really available to lore bards for less spells known, weaker skill ability, and total reliance on someone else for bardic inspiration to be used at all.

The big drawback on lore bards is they tend to be squishy and poor direct damage.

[Shining Wrath]

Just as a note about skills, the Knowledge Devotion Cleric can be proficient in anything at all for 10 minutes, and for a lot of things 10 minutes is enough.

[Ashrym]

Just as a note about skills, the Knowledge Devotion Cleric can be proficient in anything at all for 10 minutes, and for a lot of things 10 minutes is enough.

Knowledge of the ages is definitely interesting, but it's usable few times, and only adds proficiency so doesn't stack (but can be combined with guidance) with other proficiencies. It creates versatility in skills, definitely. Where I find it lacking is in frequency so the style of campaign has a big impact on it's effectiveness. It's hard to beat jack-of-all-trades plus peerless if needed, or proficiency plus peerless, or expertise plus peerless; lore bards can set up big bonuses but peerless is also limited. I can see knowledge of the ages plus guidance as a strong contender in the skill area.

More open skill access is one of the things I like about 5e.

[Shining Wrath]

Knowledge of the ages is definitely interesting, but it's usable few times, and only adds proficiency so doesn't stack (but can be combined with guidance) with other proficiencies. It creates versatility in skills, definitely. Where I find it lacking is in frequency so the style of campaign has a big impact on it's effectiveness. It's hard to beat jack-of-all-trades plus peerless if needed, or proficiency plus peerless, or expertise plus peerless; lore bards can set up big bonuses but peerless is also limited. I can see knowledge of the ages plus guidance as a strong contender in the skill area.

More open skill access is one of the things I like about 5e.

Agreed. In no way do I put forward the Knowledge Cleric as a skill monkey match for the Bard or the Rogue. But ... if you're going to play a cleric, and you think your party could use some skill support because you don't have a Bard or a Rogue, then take a look at the Knowledge Devotion.

[ArchNecrophile]

I am new to D&D and I am just wondering: how do rests work in D&D. For example, how much real life time does the group wait for and how does it scale with the in game time?

[GiantOctopodes]

I am new to D&D and I am just wondering: how do rests work in D&D. For example, how much real life time does the group wait for and how does it scale with the in game time?

Real life time? Long enough to use the bathroom, refill your drink, and stretch.

In game time? Short rests are an hour, long rests are 8 hours. You can take as many short rests as you want, but don't be surprised if those enemies at the heart of the dungeon either a) don't wait an hour for the noisy combatants they heard earlier to finish resting, or b) take that time to scout you, prepare for you specifically, alter the field of battle to suit them, etc. So, even though you *can* take a short rest after every battle, that doesn't mean you necessarily *should*.

[ArchNecrophile]

Real life time? Long enough to use the bathroom, refill your drink, and stretch.

In game time? Short rests are an hour, long rests are 8 hours. You can take as many short rests as you want, but don't be surprised if those enemies at the heart of the dungeon either a) don't wait an hour for the noisy combatants they heard earlier to finish resting, or b) take that time to scout you, prepare for you specifically, alter the field of battle to suit them, etc. So, even though you *can* take a short rest after every battle, that doesn't mean you necessarily *should*.

Okay, thank you.

[Yagyujubei]

gonna throw in my lot with lore bard here, it can be pretty much anything, and it looks to me like your party needs a skill monkey and utility spells. you wont be putting up the most impressive numbers, but you'll be winning the fights through battlefield control. although I think it takes a while to really get going...

also, this has been talked about in a few threads (right now even) but lore bards make some of the best grapplers around.